It may be notable that Yui Tanimura, the director of Dark Souls II, was also the co-director of Elden Ring. The idea of a troublesome character design hitting a point where they just decide to rip off its head worked out well enough in II and who knows if it may have had an influence here. When Elden Ring finally gets a design works, maybe we'll be lucky enough to see the Sanguine Noble concept art and get some more insight on the situation.
"A creators grows frustrated with their creation, and chooses to rip its head off" sounds like something you would find in the backstory lore of a souls game...
For the Black Knives, it feels more like their cloaks and armor render their physical selves invisible, than that they're headless. The description for the Black Knifeprint mentions that their cloaks obscure the truth, and unlike the Sanguine Noble (where you can see their hands and feet) they're covered head to toe in armor except for the face.
This is what I always understood too. I believe the description even mentions something along the lines of "even now, this armor has some lingering power remaining that muffles the wearer's sound" implying that before the armor was even more powerful; so their faces being invisible is maybe the last bit of invisibility remaining in the armor. To support it, we can actually see them going full invisible in a place where time may not pass and power might not deteriorate.
I figure their faces are meant to be obscured, so they simply just don't give them one to make sure you never see it. I honestly don't think there's any lore implications, since if they were headless that would be mentioned elsewhere
I assumed that the Black Knifes had a thick veil over their face, and I almost didn't realize the void in the noble's hoods was literally just a missing head.
I dont think it is meant to be seen unless you zoom in really hard through tools normal players wouldnt use anyway Seems just as a design choice, them being headless would otherwise surely be desribed on related items/weapons if it was important
I love how creepy all monsters related to Mogh are: from the giant blood slimes that can't hit shit to the red roly poly Albinaurics, the giant blistered crows and dogs, these headless dudes and the creepy White Mask invader we all love to hate. Special mention to the "suicide" giant crow who helped us all get an insane amount of runes to become OP
We also see an instance of the character being headless when it comes to the Frenzied Flame ending: It might be insinuating a theme in Elden Ring that the head (traditionally revered in religions as highly important because it's symbolic of worship to the gods) may be lost when one strays from the path of the Erdtree, 'losing one's head to madness', as it were.
Some paleolithic Indo-European cultures seemed to worship skulls, to the point of remaking ancestor's faces by embedding the skulls into clay pottery.. Subsequently they tended to draw headless humans t-posing (to emphasize their headlessness) on their walls surrounding the skulls shrines. Supposedly the afterlife was filled with headless walkers
There's also Marika losing her head and us or Ranni replacing it during the non-frenzy endings. The head seems rather important to the outer gods when you look at all the different angles.
additionally, both godwyn and the fell god brand the world by stamping their face (arguably the most important part of the head aside from the brain) onto it
@@MysteryKar Elden Ring is a game about fracturing and wholeness, so this theme pops up a lot in all sorts of ways, especially in the fracturing and wholeness of the body.
I remain dedicated in the belief that the character and monster designs of Elden Ring bear immense similarity to the style of bordeaux-style medieval tapestry art and such art may have served as inspiration based on taking those insane and unartistically distinct designs and then just running them straight into the engine as "realistic" as possible. If you took one of those paintings and made everything in it look real, it'd look like a brightly lit horror show. It'd look like Elden Ring. or Demon's Souls.
@@MK-vi2cm hieronymus boschs paintings come to mind, gustave dore, giuseppe arcimboldo, piete bruegel the elder, the artist is unknown but the book the drolatic dreams of pantagruel
Sort of related to the headlessness of these enemies, was Mergo's Wet Nurse in Bloodborne ever meant to have a head/face or was she always headless/faceless? Given her ties to the Great Ones and being the one caring for Mergo, it makes sense that she wouldn't have a face/head at all, but the complete lack of one comes to mind when looking at the Nobles in Elden Ring.
That's a good question, to my understanding Mergo's wet nurse is actually a spirit and distinctly different from all other great ones in the game. It is possible that she is actually like one of the Formless great ones just like formless Oedon. But evidence that she is a spirit comes from the fact that she doesn't bleed when you hit her, she simply emits dust and smoke, which is almost identical to the Cainhurst phantoms. She also is the only great one to wield a forged weapon as she wields the blades of the burial blade. In the description, of the burial blade, the weapon was forged from siderite and fell from the heavens. This would imply that Mergo's wet nurse could also be a guardian angel type being. Which makes sense as she watches over the baby Mergo. Interestingly enough Mergo is latin for "I am drowning" its a conjugation of the verb meaning to drown or to overwhelm. Which is an apt name as Mergo is a seat of a nightmare and would essentially be dragging hunters under and deeper into the nightmare possibly at the hand of the Wet nurse.
@@HailKosm Then it makes sense that she doesn't really have a form at all. I haven't yet gotten to her in my run of Bloodborne (stuck in the damn Research Hall in the DLC and I've been more in the mood for Dark Souls 3 anyway), but I'm probably going to do for her what I did for Cainhurst and break out the tonitrus for the free bolt damage (though I do need to spend some chunks on it to get it beyond the +6 or +7 I have it at currently). I pulled out my Latin dictionary since it's been some years since my degree and 6 years of studying the language. What is interesting is the figurative meaning of mergere is "to bury"; so "Mergo" could also mean "I bury". Dip, immerse, sink, and plunge are also meanings that apply to mergere. Mergere is a transitive verb though, so less "I am drowning" and more "I drown -something-". Or, "I bury -something-". Bury is perhaps a closer translation given she's wielding burial blades, which could be representative of Mergo himself.
@@SolaScientia if you're in the Research Hall, and plan on finishing the Dlc before Wet Nurse, you are going to annihilate her in about 7 hits. Everything post-Ludwig (and including him) is generally harder than anything in the main game except maybe Logarius and ofc the chalice dungeons.
The idea of the "formless" mother, as her name even suggests, I think, relates to her coming into this world through blood, which is formless. Or, more specifically, takes on the form of whatever body it is in. This also explains why Mohg comes out of a pool of blood directly coming out of Miquella's body. Miquella's body seems to host a whole realm inside.
This has been my theory with miquella as well. I think his ties to trina plays a part in that, as well as some cut content speaking about dream worlds, and he dreams a world not unlike the painted world. In fact, I think miquella/Trina will be the host of a dream world that is inherently a call back to the painted world. Themes of a dark, and very "gentle" (horrific nightmare) place, a place where the forlorn and downtrodden can find peace and solace. At least, I hope so.
@@ladonmccabe thinking of the painted world, makes me want to look back at the very end of DS3 after defeating Gael and giving the child in the painted world the “pigment” to finish her new painting. If I remember correctly it was really just an abstract mess on the canvas but still. Would be interesting if the whole world of Elden Ring, not just the lands between, was her new masterpiece. Could also deeply tie in with the frenzied flame ending as both have you burn away the world to start anew. Of course this is all speculation and quite a big reach, would be pretty neat tho
I love to think that eventually we might get a DLC like the Untended Graves where all these heads are stored, with an executioner hoarding them or some sort of...benign gravetender looking after them
Honestly I have so much hope for potential DLC because they could delve further into literally anything in the game. We could go to the moon, kill some outer gods, and fully complete the great rune. There's a lot of lore that they leave ambiguous.
@@NightmareBlade10 Oh absolutely, I'm thinking they're going to do something more with Miquella and the Formless Mother, Gideon even mentions that the big cocoon could either be destroyed or left to sleep, which sounds like another possible ending Either that or something like you said, really go DS3 with it and blow the timeline wide open
Just damn I love your breakdowns and others like them. I like your quick fire style with lots of info and still open for interpretation. Then there's dudes like illusionarywall with really wicked technical details (not that don't sometimes offer the same ofc). Idk just love these games and love to see how they work and the possibilities for cut content and the like . You're awesome Zullie!
Interesting detail that may link to the omen horns: The description for the "Bloodboon" Incantation states that Mohg's accursed blood erupted with fire, not the Formless Mother's blood (I'll copy paste item descriptions below). Which is weird because it's definately Her bloodflame that you're throwing around. Also Morgott's Cursed Sword is supposedly made of Morgott's accursed blood and It's weapon skill appears very similar to Bloodflame Talons (though doesn't apply the bloodflame effect). I'm not entirely sure what the relationship between the Omen Curse and the Formless Mother is, but there is definately a link and I like to think that the nobles and the red albinaurics are turning into omens simply by exposure to Her. Bloodboon: "Sacred incantation of Mohg, Lord of Blood. Thrust arm into the body of the Formless Mother, then scatter the bloodflame to set the area ablaze. This incantation can be cast while in motion. The mother of truth craves wounds. When Mohg stood before her, deep underground, his accursed blood erupted with fire, and besotted with the defilement that he was born into." Morgott's Cursed Sword: "Warped blade of shifting hue used by Morgott, the Omen King. The accursed blood that Morgott recanted and sealed away reformed into this blade."
This is extremely hard to ignore. What about Mohg and Morgott's blood is it that beckons the Formless Mother? Is there blood natural catalysts for bloodflame? Morgott's "accursed blood" producing bloodflame, even with his devotion to the greater will leads credence to this. Hell, his sword might as well be a relic of "sacred" nature of bloodflame (the bloodflame being channeled primarily with faith). Is it something to do with being omen, or is it their lineage as royal/demigod omen that creates the bloodflame? No omen found other than those two use bloodflame. They use a black and goldish flame, which matches the flames emitted from the bell used by the wraith callers. Which makes sense, as that "flame" is actually the souls of vengeful spirits, the same type of spirits that cause the omen curse and torment their sleep. And only morgott uses something, ehhhh, similar when he vomits his accursed blood, and the ground erupting in the same hue as the yellow in the spirits. So that leads me to believe that being a demigod omen begats special accursed blood; accursed blood that can channel the Bloodflame. And it's that, that gets the Mother of Truth so randy, I think. Thanks man, couldn't have put this together without you.
i don’t think the formless mother turns people into omens, rather the omens cursed blood is the perfect catalyst for her. since corruption and defilement are very strong themes with both. as to the nobles, i always interpreted it as mohg „sharing“ his blood with them? sorta like he wants to share his blood with miquella, and that’s the reason why they grow horns. the formless mother is operating through mohg and thereby spreading his cursed blood to his followers. i’m not 100% sure why morgott uses bloodflame tho without crafting too many theories
See, this is ultimately what I believe too. I believe that, inherently, the Formless Mother and the Greater Will must in some capacity be at odds with each other. Until more comes out, however, it'll serve solely as my own theory.
@@ladonmccabe oooohhh... what you and Thomas said makes me really wonder... maybe... maybe the REASON why Omens exist at all is because the Formless Mother created them? Maybe that's WHY they're rejected by the Golden Order? the order sees them as an enemy?
@@ladonmccabe Actually one of the Fell Twins uses something close in appearance to bloodflame. Though considering the weird nature of that boss fight it's possible that they are some kind of metaphor for the other omen twins whose tower they're guarding. Anyways, I'm glad people are enjoying my theory. This community is awesome.
@@gothxm If you're scanning the figure top-down, you won't encounter the feet until last, which are what normally would give away the stride of a walking animation. The pommel of the cane is much higher up than the model's ankles though, which lets you make out what's happening earlier when it rises up from the ground. Plus, since the cane becomes a sword afterward, the detail only stays there for as long as it needs.
Seeing this got me thinking, since the Sanguine Nobles don't really have the large proportions common in Omens, I wonder if they're in any way related to the thorn sorcerer dudes who hang out with the Flame Monks. They're both very gaunt, they both use their weapons to aid in walking, and they're both obviously tied to blood and flame. Maybe some of the exiled sorcerers, with their self-wounding briars and knowledge of the Blood Star, found their way to Mohg's side and took up new noble positions under the Formless Mother.
The sanguine nobles are probably one of my favorite enemy types to encounter at the ruin farm but it really makes no sense why they don’t have a head, since they have a physical form and it makes very little sense why the head is the only thing that doesn’t have a form.🐱
@@christopherrapczynski204 Albinaurics fade away because they are artificial beings. That's a bit different than a natural being somehow missing a head.
The head is also the seat of the ego. Maybe its a physical representation of divesting themselves of their individuality, and becoming one with their Formless Mother, and extensions of her will.
My theory is that the Sanguine nobles just Mogh's creation, using blood to make his own followers, that's why they dress like him, have omen horn and can spawn out of blood pool like him. And they doesn't have a head because..., maybe he doesn't know how to make one?
Usually details like this are intentional and have lore implications, such as the mausoleum knights and black knives, but this one just feels like an oversight.
Formless mother being an outer god that favors blood really reminds me of a line in bloodborne "..the oozing blood is a medium of the highest grade, and the essence of the formless Great One." This line comes from the formless oedon rune
The amount of research and dedication in each and every single one of those vids is absolutely astonishing and beautifully awesome... I love it! Please keep it up Zuzu ^~^
Make that day today! You can actually emulate them on modern phones or pcs with very little setup or trouble and they're incredibly fun when you dive into them just like any souls!
At least as far as Elden Ring, I'm convinced it's a sign of devotion. Assuming all three "headless" enemy types truly headless, the types of devotion would be as follows: Devotion to duty for the mausoleum guards, who carry on their duty stripped of identity. Devotion to a higher power for the sanguine nobles, who as followers of Mohg and the Formless Mother conceal or erase their identity as a sign of fealty to their god. And finally, Devotion to a cause for the Black Knives, who hid their identities both to prove that anyone could have done what they did, and to make sure that nobody would know their identities, possibly not even each other.
It might be coincidence but there's quite a few instances of headless characters in the game, a bit of a theme. Other than the ones mentioned in the video, the Mausoleum soldiers are all headless (even their horses) and supposedly they decapitated themselves in order to guard the mausoleums forever. The bodies preserved inside the mausoleums are also missing their heads. I wonder if there's some lore explanation for this.
I always found the parallels between The Formless Mother and Formless Oedon interesting. Not just the "Formless" bit but also the theme of bloodletting being central to the worship of these respective entities.
I’ve wondered since launch why Mohg would forsake his Omen kin entirely and not even invite any to his new nation of blood. While there’s definitely a possibility that these headless dudes are Omen, it doesn’t really match the body type of the Omens we see in the sewer.
I would love to see you get a chance to interview some of the animators from the project on questions like this, just to learn some of the difference between our deductions and reality. I think it would be super interesting.
Very Nazgul in concept and execution In concept and on paper, the invisible lords with robes and crowns over nothing is pretty deamn cool In execution and onscreen, it's much cooler to have a void of black or full coverings. Much less awkward and looks a whole lot more sinister
my initial thought about all the headless enemies is that it had something to do with the cut dream mechanic, to hide secrets that person knew in life, sort of like a speak with dead spell not functioning on a headless/jawless corpse
That would be insanely neat. I doubt that we will ever get anything that confirms or denies this notion, but I love the conclusions that you drew from it.
We've already seen that Mogh used to be a regular enemy, so maybe they used to have Mogh's head (or a head very similar to Mogh's) and it was removed when Mogh became a unique character?
I wish Mogh had more of a role... I think he and his nobles have some of the best designs in the game (Mogh himself is particularly terrifying when you look at how deminic he is compared to his brother). that, and who doesn't love a Bloodborne throwback (I thought their colour palette was very close to that of Cainhurst knights). I'd say the horns on the nobles are more to do with the Mother than being an Omen, though - perhaps we'll find out more in a DLC?
I didn't know they did not wear shoes, I thought they were wearing those silly Stilleto shoes. But no, it's just horns growing out of the bottom of their feet? That's strange.
More questions than answers. I actually like they were way more ominous and vague with Elden Ring than their other games. Because it leaves a lot of room for future installments. A d answers to questions. Similar to how Dark souls 1-3 worked out. Givin 2 seemed more like a filler episode. But I enjoyed it all the same.
It's actually extra believable for me to say it's reused Bloodborne asset as much to do with Mohg and his practices seem like a Bloodborne throwback. In fact most concepts that touch the topic won't stop sounding Bloodborne if you compare it to Bloodborne's plot and Oedon being a formless Great One. At first I started selling the idea for crossover memes until I realized I was believing what I was selling. I physically cannot talk about Mohgwyn Dynasty without thinking Bloodborne. Healing practitioners experimenting blood. Only one could handle the blood differently for ascension. Blood horror realm. Cut dream content that could have been a dead Miquella dream to wake him up. Infant Great One for sacrifice. Miquella was literally in a womb, expected to awaken a god. Cursed blood. Outer gods. Floor birds. Even Mohg's attacks are a bit Bloodborne inspired if we remember Lady Maria's super blood moves and Laurence bleeding lava we don't want to step in. Even his boss track theme. Blood transfusion is also in their practices, and puts Albinaurics to sleep in the waiting effects of the process.
The eerie Zelda music is a great choice too for this video! Spooky they choose to behead themselves, yet knowing this won’t necessarily kill them becasue of the just-won’t-die curse…can’t be fun though…
Youre one of the few TH-camrs that I watch every new video. You do an excellent job investigating, even if we are left without answers by FromSoft. Great vid!
If we do want to go the lore route and not the model-error route, taking on aspects of the Formless Mother sounds rather neat. And it would mean a difference between *surrendering* yourself to the Outer God, and trying to control it. Mohg is the latter, as shown by him stabbing into it to scatter blood all the time, compared to the Nobles doing things like climbing out of spontaneous blood pools.
formless mother is so cool, it creates a mental image of a massive eldritch matriarchal being who we cannot perceive but is present everywhere and moans as mohg stabs her and covers us in her blood
I like the idea that they became formless themselves. That would explain why their hood just floats. Because you can't visibly see their head because it's formless but it's still there
One of my favorite parodies of Dark Souls content has the faceless giants with a tiny tiny smiling face in the middle of their face hole. It is simultaneously adorable and very very creepy.
Formless Mother makes me think of bloodborne too actually, either because of Kos or if you assume the Moon Presence was female. So fun that these games can interconnect so much.
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 พฤศจิกายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wPd7VFfWHIA/mqdefault.jpg)
It may be notable that Yui Tanimura, the director of Dark Souls II, was also the co-director of Elden Ring. The idea of a troublesome character design hitting a point where they just decide to rip off its head worked out well enough in II and who knows if it may have had an influence here. When Elden Ring finally gets a design works, maybe we'll be lucky enough to see the Sanguine Noble concept art and get some more insight on the situation.
The faceless giant looked better then whatever the fuck that was
Maybe they left the eyes and jaw parts so the nobles could turn their „head“ an „look“ at the player?
@@17sbaucum first 5 hours in Blender and you get something like that
maybe the followers of mohg grow horns because he is sharing his accursed blood with them, seeing as the formless mother is into that stuff.
"A creators grows frustrated with their creation, and chooses to rip its head off" sounds like something you would find in the backstory lore of a souls game...
For the Black Knives, it feels more like their cloaks and armor render their physical selves invisible, than that they're headless. The description for the Black Knifeprint mentions that their cloaks obscure the truth, and unlike the Sanguine Noble (where you can see their hands and feet) they're covered head to toe in armor except for the face.
This is what I always understood too. I believe the description even mentions something along the lines of "even now, this armor has some lingering power remaining that muffles the wearer's sound" implying that before the armor was even more powerful; so their faces being invisible is maybe the last bit of invisibility remaining in the armor. To support it, we can actually see them going full invisible in a place where time may not pass and power might not deteriorate.
I figure their faces are meant to be obscured, so they simply just don't give them one to make sure you never see it. I honestly don't think there's any lore implications, since if they were headless that would be mentioned elsewhere
It most likely has something to do with the frogs, especially the Old Frog. The similarities are too much to be a coincidence.
@@definitelynotanAIchatbot what frog?
Interesting pfp, where is it from?
I assumed that the Black Knifes had a thick veil over their face, and I almost didn't realize the void in the noble's hoods was literally just a missing head.
I dont think it is meant to be seen unless you zoom in really hard through tools normal players wouldnt use anyway
Seems just as a design choice, them being headless would otherwise surely be desribed on related items/weapons if it was important
I think its better like this, beside who would notice anyway unless you zoom in real hard on them and it add more to the mystery.
I love how creepy all monsters related to Mogh are: from the giant blood slimes that can't hit shit to the red roly poly Albinaurics, the giant blistered crows and dogs, these headless dudes and the creepy White Mask invader we all love to hate. Special mention to the "suicide" giant crow who helped us all get an insane amount of runes to become OP
Suicide Crow died for our sins.
And died
And died
And
@@vileluca
Died for our *runes
@@vileluca lived that one time. And died again
Wait, what suicide crow?
@@EnviedShadow The Elden Raven, Deathless Host of Runes
We also see an instance of the character being headless when it comes to the Frenzied Flame ending: It might be insinuating a theme in Elden Ring that the head (traditionally revered in religions as highly important because it's symbolic of worship to the gods) may be lost when one strays from the path of the Erdtree, 'losing one's head to madness', as it were.
Some paleolithic Indo-European cultures seemed to worship skulls, to the point of remaking ancestor's faces by embedding the skulls into clay pottery..
Subsequently they tended to draw headless humans t-posing (to emphasize their headlessness) on their walls surrounding the skulls shrines.
Supposedly the afterlife was filled with headless walkers
Huh, I like this theory 👍
There's also Marika losing her head and us or Ranni replacing it during the non-frenzy endings. The head seems rather important to the outer gods when you look at all the different angles.
additionally, both godwyn and the fell god brand the world by stamping their face (arguably the most important part of the head aside from the brain) onto it
@@MysteryKar Elden Ring is a game about fracturing and wholeness, so this theme pops up a lot in all sorts of ways, especially in the fracturing and wholeness of the body.
I was not prepared for the background music's ominous vibes.
King's field IV ost has many incredible pieces of music
It's crazy how I drop anything I'm doing when I see a notification for a new video.
I remain dedicated in the belief that the character and monster designs of Elden Ring bear immense similarity to the style of bordeaux-style medieval tapestry art and such art may have served as inspiration based on taking those insane and unartistically distinct designs and then just running them straight into the engine as "realistic" as possible. If you took one of those paintings and made everything in it look real, it'd look like a brightly lit horror show. It'd look like Elden Ring.
or Demon's Souls.
Any pieces in particular for reference? I'm curious what this art looks like
I am also curious if you have any particular pieces of art in mind
@@MK-vi2cm hieronymus boschs paintings come to mind, gustave dore, giuseppe arcimboldo, piete bruegel the elder, the artist is unknown but the book the drolatic dreams of pantagruel
@@playretodder thank you
@Sabizos summoning snails?
Zullie's jump scare game is progressively getting freakier
Sort of related to the headlessness of these enemies, was Mergo's Wet Nurse in Bloodborne ever meant to have a head/face or was she always headless/faceless? Given her ties to the Great Ones and being the one caring for Mergo, it makes sense that she wouldn't have a face/head at all, but the complete lack of one comes to mind when looking at the Nobles in Elden Ring.
That's a good question, to my understanding Mergo's wet nurse is actually a spirit and distinctly different from all other great ones in the game. It is possible that she is actually like one of the Formless great ones just like formless Oedon. But evidence that she is a spirit comes from the fact that she doesn't bleed when you hit her, she simply emits dust and smoke, which is almost identical to the Cainhurst phantoms. She also is the only great one to wield a forged weapon as she wields the blades of the burial blade. In the description, of the burial blade, the weapon was forged from siderite and fell from the heavens. This would imply that Mergo's wet nurse could also be a guardian angel type being. Which makes sense as she watches over the baby Mergo.
Interestingly enough Mergo is latin for "I am drowning" its a conjugation of the verb meaning to drown or to overwhelm. Which is an apt name as Mergo is a seat of a nightmare and would essentially be dragging hunters under and deeper into the nightmare possibly at the hand of the Wet nurse.
She's supposed to be inconceivable to the human eye, basically invisible. But not omnipresent like the formless Mother and Oedon, somewhere in between
@@HailKosm Then it makes sense that she doesn't really have a form at all. I haven't yet gotten to her in my run of Bloodborne (stuck in the damn Research Hall in the DLC and I've been more in the mood for Dark Souls 3 anyway), but I'm probably going to do for her what I did for Cainhurst and break out the tonitrus for the free bolt damage (though I do need to spend some chunks on it to get it beyond the +6 or +7 I have it at currently).
I pulled out my Latin dictionary since it's been some years since my degree and 6 years of studying the language. What is interesting is the figurative meaning of mergere is "to bury"; so "Mergo" could also mean "I bury". Dip, immerse, sink, and plunge are also meanings that apply to mergere. Mergere is a transitive verb though, so less "I am drowning" and more "I drown -something-". Or, "I bury -something-". Bury is perhaps a closer translation given she's wielding burial blades, which could be representative of Mergo himself.
@@SolaScientia if you're in the Research Hall, and plan on finishing the Dlc before Wet Nurse, you are going to annihilate her in about 7 hits. Everything post-Ludwig (and including him) is generally harder than anything in the main game except maybe Logarius and ofc the chalice dungeons.
Wet nurse is so hawt. I’d let it slice me
This song is always so nice; last time I remember it being used was for the wormfaces. It fits the vibe so well
And then Manikin Head jumpscare.
what song is this?
@@facelessartist3434 tower-kings field 4
@@MK-vi2cm i knew it! No wonder I liked it so much when I heard it lol
@@thahli "King's Field 4 OST - The Ancient City Entrance" seems to be the actual song
The idea of the "formless" mother, as her name even suggests, I think, relates to her coming into this world through blood, which is formless. Or, more specifically, takes on the form of whatever body it is in. This also explains why Mohg comes out of a pool of blood directly coming out of Miquella's body. Miquella's body seems to host a whole realm inside.
this is my favorite take. feels very similar to formless oedon from bloodborne
Formless Mother? Formless Oedon? Invisible Mergo? Invisible Ocelotte? I don't think there's a coincidence.
This has been my theory with miquella as well. I think his ties to trina plays a part in that, as well as some cut content speaking about dream worlds, and he dreams a world not unlike the painted world. In fact, I think miquella/Trina will be the host of a dream world that is inherently a call back to the painted world. Themes of a dark, and very "gentle" (horrific nightmare) place, a place where the forlorn and downtrodden can find peace and solace.
At least, I hope so.
Poor Miquella, surely the Formless Mother will have left a mark upon him when he finally wakes from his slumber. Yikes 🥺
@@ladonmccabe thinking of the painted world, makes me want to look back at the very end of DS3 after defeating Gael and giving the child in the painted world the “pigment” to finish her new painting. If I remember correctly it was really just an abstract mess on the canvas but still. Would be interesting if the whole world of Elden Ring, not just the lands between, was her new masterpiece. Could also deeply tie in with the frenzied flame ending as both have you burn away the world to start anew.
Of course this is all speculation and quite a big reach, would be pretty neat tho
I think it might be just like Gideon void helmet where the hood covered head is supposed to be dark or invisible just to make it look cooler.
I can really appreciate the constant usage of King's Field 4's music. It feels both nostalgiy and eerie
Wow! I didn't expect that Zullie face reveal at 2:21 !!!
This music choice is just incredibly subversive alongside the information being presented. Your work is impeccable.
i wish mogh had an ending, and the tarnished also grew horns, kinda like how your eyes change depending on the ending
This is sooo awesome looking!!!
I love to think that eventually we might get a DLC like the Untended Graves where all these heads are stored, with an executioner hoarding them or some sort of...benign gravetender looking after them
It is unlikely to happen but wow I really love it
Honestly I have so much hope for potential DLC because they could delve further into literally anything in the game. We could go to the moon, kill some outer gods, and fully complete the great rune. There's a lot of lore that they leave ambiguous.
@@NightmareBlade10 Oh absolutely, I'm thinking they're going to do something more with Miquella and the Formless Mother, Gideon even mentions that the big cocoon could either be destroyed or left to sleep, which sounds like another possible ending
Either that or something like you said, really go DS3 with it and blow the timeline wide open
Always happy to see Max Slider PC show up in a video.
2:19 I wasn't ready for that
Just damn I love your breakdowns and others like them. I like your quick fire style with lots of info and still open for interpretation. Then there's dudes like illusionarywall with really wicked technical details (not that don't sometimes offer the same ofc). Idk just love these games and love to see how they work and the possibilities for cut content and the like . You're awesome Zullie!
Interesting detail that may link to the omen horns: The description for the "Bloodboon" Incantation states that Mohg's accursed blood erupted with fire, not the Formless Mother's blood (I'll copy paste item descriptions below). Which is weird because it's definately Her bloodflame that you're throwing around. Also Morgott's Cursed Sword is supposedly made of Morgott's accursed blood and It's weapon skill appears very similar to Bloodflame Talons (though doesn't apply the bloodflame effect).
I'm not entirely sure what the relationship between the Omen Curse and the Formless Mother is, but there is definately a link and I like to think that the nobles and the red albinaurics are turning into omens simply by exposure to Her.
Bloodboon:
"Sacred incantation of Mohg, Lord of Blood.
Thrust arm into the body of the Formless Mother, then scatter the
bloodflame to set the area ablaze.
This incantation can be cast while in motion.
The mother of truth craves wounds. When Mohg stood before
her, deep underground, his accursed blood erupted with fire, and
besotted with the defilement that he was born into."
Morgott's Cursed Sword:
"Warped blade of shifting hue used by Morgott, the Omen King.
The accursed blood that Morgott recanted and sealed away reformed into this blade."
This is extremely hard to ignore. What about Mohg and Morgott's blood is it that beckons the Formless Mother? Is there blood natural catalysts for bloodflame? Morgott's "accursed blood" producing bloodflame, even with his devotion to the greater will leads credence to this. Hell, his sword might as well be a relic of "sacred" nature of bloodflame (the bloodflame being channeled primarily with faith). Is it something to do with being omen, or is it their lineage as royal/demigod omen that creates the bloodflame? No omen found other than those two use bloodflame. They use a black and goldish flame, which matches the flames emitted from the bell used by the wraith callers. Which makes sense, as that "flame" is actually the souls of vengeful spirits, the same type of spirits that cause the omen curse and torment their sleep. And only morgott uses something, ehhhh, similar when he vomits his accursed blood, and the ground erupting in the same hue as the yellow in the spirits. So that leads me to believe that being a demigod omen begats special accursed blood; accursed blood that can channel the Bloodflame.
And it's that, that gets the Mother of Truth so randy, I think.
Thanks man, couldn't have put this together without you.
i don’t think the formless mother turns people into omens, rather the omens cursed blood is the perfect catalyst for her. since corruption and defilement are very strong themes with both. as to the nobles, i always interpreted it as mohg „sharing“ his blood with them? sorta like he wants to share his blood with miquella, and that’s the reason why they grow horns. the formless mother is operating through mohg and thereby spreading his cursed blood to his followers. i’m not 100% sure why morgott uses bloodflame tho without crafting too many theories
See, this is ultimately what I believe too. I believe that, inherently, the Formless Mother and the Greater Will must in some capacity be at odds with each other. Until more comes out, however, it'll serve solely as my own theory.
@@ladonmccabe oooohhh... what you and Thomas said makes me really wonder... maybe... maybe the REASON why Omens exist at all is because the Formless Mother created them? Maybe that's WHY they're rejected by the Golden Order? the order sees them as an enemy?
@@ladonmccabe Actually one of the Fell Twins uses something close in appearance to bloodflame. Though considering the weird nature of that boss fight it's possible that they are some kind of metaphor for the other omen twins whose tower they're guarding.
Anyways, I'm glad people are enjoying my theory. This community is awesome.
I love how the cane gives away their stride earlier as they're rising out of the ground, it's such a good combination of details
What do you mean?
@@gothxm If you're scanning the figure top-down, you won't encounter the feet until last, which are what normally would give away the stride of a walking animation. The pommel of the cane is much higher up than the model's ankles though, which lets you make out what's happening earlier when it rises up from the ground. Plus, since the cane becomes a sword afterward, the detail only stays there for as long as it needs.
I always figured the nobles used Margit's animations/skeleton based on their dagger throws
Kings field music always means a banger video
They lost their heads is the perfect description of all soulsborne enemies
They got dem omen feet
King's Field 4 has an absolutely amazing soundtrack.
Another painful reminder of the mask we lost out on in Ds2.
The Manikin mask from DS2 be lookin like Varre
Seeing this got me thinking, since the Sanguine Nobles don't really have the large proportions common in Omens, I wonder if they're in any way related to the thorn sorcerer dudes who hang out with the Flame Monks. They're both very gaunt, they both use their weapons to aid in walking, and they're both obviously tied to blood and flame.
Maybe some of the exiled sorcerers, with their self-wounding briars and knowledge of the Blood Star, found their way to Mohg's side and took up new noble positions under the Formless Mother.
The sanguine nobles are probably one of my favorite enemy types to encounter at the ruin farm but it really makes no sense why they don’t have a head, since they have a physical form and it makes very little sense why the head is the only thing that doesn’t have a form.🐱
the frenzied flame also takes over the head so maybe it's a artistic motif, or maybe I'm just looking for coincedences
the albinaurics legs begin to literally fade away, this could easily be the same scenario
@@christopherrapczynski204 Albinaurics fade away because they are artificial beings. That's a bit different than a natural being somehow missing a head.
The head is also the seat of the ego. Maybe its a physical representation of divesting themselves of their individuality, and becoming one with their Formless Mother, and extensions of her will.
My theory is that the Sanguine nobles just Mogh's creation, using blood to make his own followers, that's why they dress like him, have omen horn and can spawn out of blood pool like him.
And they doesn't have a head because..., maybe he doesn't know how to make one?
Usually details like this are intentional and have lore implications, such as the mausoleum knights and black knives, but this one just feels like an oversight.
Formless mother being an outer god that favors blood really reminds me of a line in bloodborne "..the oozing blood is a medium of the highest grade, and the essence of the formless Great One." This line comes from the formless oedon rune
The amount of research and dedication in each and every single one of those vids is absolutely astonishing and beautifully awesome... I love it! Please keep it up Zuzu ^~^
Good job with the camera work and footage gathering for this one, the spin around reveals and emoting were pretty amusing
Man that music really makes we wanna try Kings Field one day.
Make that day today! You can actually emulate them on modern phones or pcs with very little setup or trouble and they're incredibly fun when you dive into them just like any souls!
At least as far as Elden Ring, I'm convinced it's a sign of devotion. Assuming all three "headless" enemy types truly headless, the types of devotion would be as follows: Devotion to duty for the mausoleum guards, who carry on their duty stripped of identity. Devotion to a higher power for the sanguine nobles, who as followers of Mohg and the Formless Mother conceal or erase their identity as a sign of fealty to their god. And finally, Devotion to a cause for the Black Knives, who hid their identities both to prove that anyone could have done what they did, and to make sure that nobody would know their identities, possibly not even each other.
These videos are such a great way to start the day. Thabks!
I absolutely love the style of these videos
The moment at 2:20 was pure gold
I’m almost convinced that the formless mother is the same god as the one that controls the crucible since she gives them horns and wings
"So - no head?"
Another fascinating video, thanks for your work Zullie !
pretty solid method to making characters more mysterious, just ripping their heads off
It might be coincidence but there's quite a few instances of headless characters in the game, a bit of a theme. Other than the ones mentioned in the video, the Mausoleum soldiers are all headless (even their horses) and supposedly they decapitated themselves in order to guard the mausoleums forever. The bodies preserved inside the mausoleums are also missing their heads. I wonder if there's some lore explanation for this.
There's also the beheaded knight statues present all throughout Dark Souls 3!
Sanguine Nobles: "So no head!?"
*smashes phone*
*breaks cane by jumping on it*
the horn high heels YASSSS DIVA SLAYYYYYYYYYY ✨
The most important thing Zulie’s videos have taught me is how banging the King’s Field score is
I always found the parallels between The Formless Mother and Formless Oedon interesting. Not just the "Formless" bit but also the theme of bloodletting being central to the worship of these respective entities.
I’ve wondered since launch why Mohg would forsake his Omen kin entirely and not even invite any to his new nation of blood. While there’s definitely a possibility that these headless dudes are Omen, it doesn’t really match the body type of the Omens we see in the sewer.
I would love to see you get a chance to interview some of the animators from the project on questions like this, just to learn some of the difference between our deductions and reality. I think it would be super interesting.
Your intimate knowledge of the Souls games never ceases to amaze me.
Very Nazgul in concept and execution
In concept and on paper, the invisible lords with robes and crowns over nothing is pretty deamn cool
In execution and onscreen, it's much cooler to have a void of black or full coverings. Much less awkward and looks a whole lot more sinister
Likely a development oversight but I'm gonna run with the idea of them taking on "Formless" traits since that's cooler.
my initial thought about all the headless enemies is that it had something to do with the cut dream mechanic, to hide secrets that person knew in life, sort of like a speak with dead spell not functioning on a headless/jawless corpse
That would be insanely neat. I doubt that we will ever get anything that confirms or denies this notion, but I love the conclusions that you drew from it.
They were forced to fight Mogh right after finishing Varrés quest, that would make me lose my head too ...
0:12 - standing on that HAS to hurt
We've already seen that Mogh used to be a regular enemy, so maybe they used to have Mogh's head (or a head very similar to Mogh's) and it was removed when Mogh became a unique character?
For those of you that are having trouble finding it the song is called "King's Field 4 OST - The Ancient City Entrance" here on TH-cam.
I wish Mogh had more of a role... I think he and his nobles have some of the best designs in the game (Mogh himself is particularly terrifying when you look at how deminic he is compared to his brother). that, and who doesn't love a Bloodborne throwback (I thought their colour palette was very close to that of Cainhurst knights).
I'd say the horns on the nobles are more to do with the Mother than being an Omen, though - perhaps we'll find out more in a DLC?
I didn't know they did not wear shoes, I thought they were wearing those silly Stilleto shoes.
But no, it's just horns growing out of the bottom of their feet? That's strange.
They became so suffused with raw fashion that their legs sprouted high heels without shoes.
@@quint3ssent1a hahaha, I like that
great content, and always the best soundtracks
its been awhile since ive had time to look at your videos, the editing is amazing.
I know I'm in for a treat when spooky music is used.
Thank you for blessing us with more quality content Zullie. :D
one of the best videos yet
More questions than answers.
I actually like they were way more ominous and vague with Elden Ring than their other games.
Because it leaves a lot of room for future installments. A d answers to questions.
Similar to how Dark souls 1-3 worked out. Givin 2 seemed more like a filler episode. But I enjoyed it all the same.
It's actually extra believable for me to say it's reused Bloodborne asset as much to do with Mohg and his practices seem like a Bloodborne throwback. In fact most concepts that touch the topic won't stop sounding Bloodborne if you compare it to Bloodborne's plot and Oedon being a formless Great One. At first I started selling the idea for crossover memes until I realized I was believing what I was selling. I physically cannot talk about Mohgwyn Dynasty without thinking Bloodborne. Healing practitioners experimenting blood. Only one could handle the blood differently for ascension. Blood horror realm. Cut dream content that could have been a dead Miquella dream to wake him up. Infant Great One for sacrifice. Miquella was literally in a womb, expected to awaken a god. Cursed blood. Outer gods. Floor birds. Even Mohg's attacks are a bit Bloodborne inspired if we remember Lady Maria's super blood moves and Laurence bleeding lava we don't want to step in. Even his boss track theme. Blood transfusion is also in their practices, and puts Albinaurics to sleep in the waiting effects of the process.
“Those who have blind faith have no head, they have no eyes to see and no mind to think. They exist to follow and die.”
It’s a shameful thing, they lost their head
Careless nobles who will wind up dead
Not gonna lie, that sudden close up was nightmare fuel.
The eerie Zelda music is a great choice too for this video! Spooky they choose to behead themselves, yet knowing this won’t necessarily kill them becasue of the just-won’t-die curse…can’t be fun though…
I always watch your videos with such focus on the subtitles that I didn't realise how damn funny 2:20 really is! 😂
Thank you for making the headless video!
I just want to say I love the music used in these vids. I believe they're mainly from the Kind's Field series, which is a nice reference.
I think it's interesting to note there is an Invader Sanguine Noble in Consecrated Snowfield who is a Player NPC, and Nerijus has Sanguine robes on
Man why was the King's Field OST so godlike.
still love that bigfoot face in ds2 every time you show it lol
"So this design's been giving me some trouble---"
"Off with it's head!!!"
Youre one of the few TH-camrs that I watch every new video. You do an excellent job investigating, even if we are left without answers by FromSoft. Great vid!
How dare you remind us of that god awful mannequin mask in DS2! 😮
I love your contents 🎉…so professional and teach us a lot of interesting things!
Amazing!❤
U N S A T I S F A C T O R Y
F A C E
If we do want to go the lore route and not the model-error route, taking on aspects of the Formless Mother sounds rather neat. And it would mean a difference between *surrendering* yourself to the Outer God, and trying to control it. Mohg is the latter, as shown by him stabbing into it to scatter blood all the time, compared to the Nobles doing things like climbing out of spontaneous blood pools.
formless mother is so cool, it creates a mental image of a massive eldritch matriarchal being who we cannot perceive but is present everywhere and moans as mohg stabs her and covers us in her blood
kings field music is on another level
I like the idea that they became formless themselves. That would explain why their hood just floats. Because you can't visibly see their head because it's formless but it's still there
One of my favorite parodies of Dark Souls content has the faceless giants with a tiny tiny smiling face in the middle of their face hole. It is simultaneously adorable and very very creepy.
Every video I begin to think more and more that elden ring is what dark souls II was expected to be and now it is but with another name.
Formless Mother makes me think of bloodborne too actually, either because of Kos or if you assume the Moon Presence was female. So fun that these games can interconnect so much.
Kings field had some bangers ngl
love how its slow motion but the grass still sways normal fps
They'll never be the head of a major corporation
At this point I'm just waiting for the "in Dark Souls II" drop in these videos!
The manikin mask change still makes me sad, it looked really nice.
Feels like this game was so close to ready, then some new starter came in and clicked the randomize spawn button.
I've never played DS2 but those faceless giants look cool as heck
Another option: From's legendary jankiness.