After 16 years working in Florida I am convinced it doesn't matter if the drain is trapped under the slab of the house or if it's in an attic with good downward pitch. They all clog up. I've seen drains with 1 inch pvc that have 30 degree pitches clogging up. All you can you is clean it as thoroughly as possible and add tablets to slow down regrowth of the bacteria.
I’m a big fan of union fittings. If everybody used a union instead of a coupling every time they had to open the drain, Summer life would be a better place.
The best video I found on condensate drain. I have a SpavePac 3-ton horizontal air handler in my attic and it has been tripping off every time the pan fills for years. I have had several technicians and 3 different companies out and none of them actually figured out an issue with the drain line, they clean the filter (which I already do), and one of them installed a hard start-up kit on the Trane compressor, which was never the actual issue). After finding that there was not an HVAC trap coming right out of my unit, as shown in the manual, I installed one. I cleaned the line in every way possible. I ran compressed air through the line and sucked it out from the outside with a shop vac. I finally ran two hoses from my attic and flushed from the cleanout I installed. Today, I discovered that a trap is in the basement from where the line comes down from the attic. So my system is double trapped. I will remove the second trap and hope that this thing stops shutting off and drains properly!
older guy told me hvac guy are terrible plumbers so thats why drains clog lol thats the logic I used when doing maintenances and explaining to HOs the importance of drains. appreciate this video !
I’m Oklahoma we do traps the other way you showed at the air handler. Makes more sense to me as it’s easier to clean out and less of the pipe is likely to clog.
Great video, gave me some more ideas to check to fix my FL horizontal attic hvac. I think I have a bend in the pipe or a misaligned drain pan. Secondary pan is filling up, leak at corner of hvac. Drain line is clear.
Good job on the video, especially on the secondary drain pan. Most units in TX are horizontal in the attic. I size drain pans so I can fit not just the unit components but all the drain line, traps, float switches…within the pan.
Great video! I'm sure the guy in the video knows this. I found it difficult to explain what I'm trying to say below, but it explains what's going on with drains, traps, and vents. To be clear, the name "vapor lock" might be the correct name used in the trade, but the phenomenon has nothing to do with vapor, and it doesn't really result in a lock. The problem arises if there are two traps within the drain. One you intended on, and another due to pipe sag (I call a, sag-trap). Let's say that each of the two traps in my example result in 3in of vertical water level per trap. With a vent between the two traps, the water entering the vertical pipe before the real trap, only needs to fill to a level of 3.1" (above the trap water level) to move water through the first trap. That same 3.1" of water will be enough to push water through the second trap. The water in each trap is dealt with in order. One, then the other. If there is no vent between the two traps, the two 3" vertical columns of water are connected by air that can not escape. This means there has to be 6.1" of water in the vertical pipe before the first trap in order to build up enough pressure to move the water in both traps simultaneously. No vent means the water in both traps have to move together. This requires higher head pressure to accomplish. Certainly, make sure the vertical pipe leading to the first trap from the unit, can contain a height of water that is greater than the water level in the real trap. If you have multiple sag-traps, that first vent may not save you. Sag-traps are bad!
If there is enough head room you can install a large filter media and install a reducing transition back to the the air handler. Like a rooftop curb adapter.
I am dealing with a wet soaked air handler right now on a new install. The installers didn't adjust air flow so I feel like it was air locked and or shooting condensation thru the coil. So after measuring for static best I could get it was .64 wc. Came back a few days later and it's still wet soaked, same issue compounded by the em drain pan has a crack in the corner. So now we got to dream up how to remove the em pan in a horiz in a attic without having to reinstall the a/h. I may try getting some duct board and replace the insulation but I wanted to resolve the issue. I assume because it's so soaked that maybe up in that attic that cold wet surface area is at dew point and it's just never going to dry out. It's Arkansas and very hot
If the blower fan is going into a negative pressure. It could suck the condensation back . It could be holding the condensation in the air handler and then when the blower fan turns off all the condensation flooding back into the drain. Might only have been on commercial equipment like package units.
Nu Calgon time release pan pads works great/excellent controlling growth in drain pans and traps. I found 99% of a/c systems has no source of controlling growth and this is where the problem starts.
Excellent explanation of the double trap scenario we have with condensate drains, have you tried to implement the a/c easy tee system for drain maintenance? My Boss has had us using that system for a couple of years and has reduced call backs tremendously and we don’t dread having to cut the line every time we do service
SEE THE GOO TIP: During your service call - take a “very bright” flash light and hold it directly on the trap…chances are high/good you’ll see the goo in the trap as the light will expose the debris (think x-ray). Want to find “the wedding ring that fell down the vanity drain?” … take the flash light and hold it directly against the vanity trap…now run water through the trap while holding the light. Give it a try. Obviously, you could simply dismantle the trap - but the light trick is pretty quick…
Good reminder to tired older techs and newbies in FL but despite half hour runtime not even a mention of heat pump drains or the wonderful world of dozens different designs on furnace and tankless drains. Not even a mention of the condensate pumps and how 99% of service guys never clean them either.
On an installation in Florida the handler is situated upstairs and the 3/4 schedule 40 is exposed for 6 inches before entering the drywall and vanishes down and across to reappear below my ground floor window, it then goes underground and reappears 3 foot away up and is then an elbow. My question is how deep should this pipe be ? This is the trap given it’s a 15 foot drop how deep should it go underground to create the trap 6 inches or more ? Dave
The depth of the water in a trap doesn't have to be great since the static pressure of the system is usually like 0.5 inches of water. That's why a trap with only two inches of water is fine. Technically, as long as the water column in the trap is more than the total external static pressure of the system (using inches of water for pressure), the trap will seal and water will flow out when the system in running. If your drain line goes under your slab, the trap would be more than good enough.
Let me start out by saying that I enjoy watching your videos. Watching this one on condensation ,I disagree with your statement on saturated insulation in air handler .To advise removing and replacing with foam board is correcting one problem and creating a potential larger problem. Foam board is highly flammable. Afire inside cabinet from a motor would ignite foam board and potentially create a structure fire. Explain that to insurance company. Technician just voided UL listing of equipment. Insurance company denies claim.
I like your videos. May I ask; what part of Florida are you located which allows the condensate to be routed to the ground?. South of Houston, any condensate flow to the ground (normally due to a backed up primary drain) will create a swamp along the side of the house. On high humidity days; up to half the A/C energy consumed is for condensation of the water in the air. Air Conditioners here make lots of condensate. The primary drain ties into the DWV piping which can cause another set of potential problems.
In Chicagoland. Residential equipment evap coils are ahead of blower/ operate in + air pressure. Besides putting a clean out T, we don't trap such drains. Is equivalent set up different in FL? Why would an open drain on + pressure need to be trapped??
Hi, I saw a you tube video on this...look around you tube... But the reason is you DO install a trap : to trap air from blowing out of the unit.....so + or - pressure you must stop the air flow...trap deep enough to create a trap seal and condensate will flow...*note* needs to be refilled with water after cleaning
Lizards and snails even tiny mice or bugs can get in there and clog it as well happens all the time specially in Florida now if you don’t have a trap you’ll get clogged even faster more likely. I don’t think the snails but definitely the lizards he even a tiny snake?
Simple ==> up flow ( furnace on the bottom) creates negative pressure and sucking the air from the drain line, therefore, condenser water can’t drain out from the condenser pan. Down flow ( furnace on the top) creates positive pressure and hot air will blow out from the ac coil drain hole to the air when turn on the furnace. Conclusion: All the Ac need to have p trap to block the air suck in or blow out from the AC drain hole. Am I right ? Please advise, thanks.
Excellent explanation of the double trap scenario we have with condensate drains, have you tried to implement the a/c easy tee system for drain maintenance? My Boss has had us using that system for a couple of years and has reduced call backs tremendously and we don’t dread having to cut the line every time we do service
Great info! Glad to have a reminder of the foam sheets for insulation.
After 16 years working in Florida I am convinced it doesn't matter if the drain is trapped under the slab of the house or if it's in an attic with good downward pitch. They all clog up. I've seen drains with 1 inch pvc that have 30 degree pitches clogging up.
All you can you is clean it as thoroughly as possible and add tablets to slow down regrowth of the bacteria.
I’m a big fan of union fittings. If everybody used a union instead of a coupling every time they had to open the drain, Summer life would be a better place.
Preach! I make sure I put them on during installs or maintenance.
Agreed!! My boss doesn’t agree. Or installers don’t want to install
We, at our company, started putting unions. It helps us out when we gotta deal with something.
I agree and it take the exact same amount of time to glue on a coupling as it does to glue on a union
The best video I found on condensate drain. I have a SpavePac 3-ton horizontal air handler in my attic and it has been tripping off every time the pan fills for years. I have had several technicians and 3 different companies out and none of them actually figured out an issue with the drain line, they clean the filter (which I already do), and one of them installed a hard start-up kit on the Trane compressor, which was never the actual issue). After finding that there was not an HVAC trap coming right out of my unit, as shown in the manual, I installed one. I cleaned the line in every way possible. I ran compressed air through the line and sucked it out from the outside with a shop vac. I finally ran two hoses from my attic and flushed from the cleanout I installed. Today, I discovered that a trap is in the basement from where the line comes down from the attic. So my system is double trapped. I will remove the second trap and hope that this thing stops shutting off and drains properly!
older guy told me hvac guy are terrible plumbers so thats why drains clog lol thats the logic I used when doing maintenances and explaining to HOs the importance of drains. appreciate this video !
I’m Oklahoma we do traps the other way you showed at the air handler. Makes more sense to me as it’s easier to clean out and less of the pipe is likely to clog.
Great video, gave me some more ideas to check to fix my FL horizontal attic hvac. I think I have a bend in the pipe or a misaligned drain pan. Secondary pan is filling up, leak at corner of hvac. Drain line is clear.
Thank you for these videos I try to watch them all.
Good job on the video, especially on the secondary drain pan. Most units in TX are horizontal in the attic. I size drain pans so I can fit not just the unit components but all the drain line, traps, float switches…within the pan.
Thanks for the video. Now there’s an in-line condensate pump with a programmable timer to automate clearing the drain.
Thank you for uploading these little training sessions!
This guys a great teacher
He's a very condescending teacher
Good info, tho
Good teacher. This guy is great.
Great video. Vary comprehensive. Thanks Bryan.
Great video!
I'm sure the guy in the video knows this. I found it difficult to explain what I'm trying to say below, but it explains what's going on with drains, traps, and vents.
To be clear, the name "vapor lock" might be the correct name used in the trade, but the phenomenon has nothing to do with vapor, and it doesn't really result in a lock.
The problem arises if there are two traps within the drain. One you intended on, and another due to pipe sag (I call a, sag-trap).
Let's say that each of the two traps in my example result in 3in of vertical water level per trap.
With a vent between the two traps, the water entering the vertical pipe before the real trap, only needs to fill to a level of 3.1" (above the trap water level) to move water through the first trap. That same 3.1" of water will be enough to push water through the second trap. The water in each trap is dealt with in order. One, then the other.
If there is no vent between the two traps, the two 3" vertical columns of water are connected by air that can not escape. This means there has to be 6.1" of water in the vertical pipe before the first trap in order to build up enough pressure to move the water in both traps simultaneously. No vent means the water in both traps have to move together. This requires higher head pressure to accomplish.
Certainly, make sure the vertical pipe leading to the first trap from the unit, can contain a height of water that is greater than the water level in the real trap.
If you have multiple sag-traps, that first vent may not save you. Sag-traps are bad!
You are the Best HVAC tubers.
Im a huge fan of anyone who quotes the movie 'Elf'. MAKE WORK YOUR NEW FAVORITE
If there is enough head room you can install a large filter media and install a reducing transition back to the the air handler. Like a rooftop curb adapter.
I am dealing with a wet soaked air handler right now on a new install. The installers didn't adjust air flow so I feel like it was air locked and or shooting condensation thru the coil. So after measuring for static best I could get it was .64 wc. Came back a few days later and it's still wet soaked, same issue compounded by the em drain pan has a crack in the corner. So now we got to dream up how to remove the em pan in a horiz in a attic without having to reinstall the a/h. I may try getting some duct board and replace the insulation but I wanted to resolve the issue. I assume because it's so soaked that maybe up in that attic that cold wet surface area is at dew point and it's just never going to dry out. It's Arkansas and very hot
If the blower fan is going into a negative pressure. It could suck the condensation back . It could be holding the condensation in the air handler and then when the blower fan turns off all the condensation flooding back into the drain. Might only have been on commercial equipment like package units.
Thanks!
Is just me or is he growing his hair out? Good Video, and thanks for introducing us to Advanced Refrigeration podcast!!
Nu Calgon time release pan pads works great/excellent controlling growth in drain pans and traps. I found 99% of a/c systems has no source of controlling growth and this is where the problem starts.
“I come across as condescending, but it’s just because your condensate is not descending”
Excellent explanation of the double trap scenario we have with condensate drains, have you tried to implement the a/c easy tee system for drain maintenance? My Boss has had us using that system for a couple of years and has reduced call backs tremendously and we don’t dread having to cut the line every time we do service
Like the EZ Tee system, it gives you access and has the blow out fittings to direct the vacuum or air ....check it out google it
SEE THE GOO TIP: During your service call - take a “very bright” flash light and hold it directly on the trap…chances are high/good you’ll see the goo in the trap as the light will expose the debris (think x-ray). Want to find “the wedding ring that fell down the vanity drain?” … take the flash light and hold it directly against the vanity trap…now run water through the trap while holding the light. Give it a try. Obviously, you could simply dismantle the trap - but the light trick is pretty quick…
Love the channel
Good reminder to tired older techs and newbies in FL but despite half hour runtime not even a mention of heat pump drains or the wonderful world of dozens different designs on furnace and tankless drains. Not even a mention of the condensate pumps and how 99% of service guys never clean them either.
Awesome!
It's all about the basics
What size thickness foamboard?
Good class.
Good stuff
On an installation in Florida the handler is situated upstairs and the 3/4 schedule 40 is exposed for 6 inches before entering the drywall and vanishes down and across to reappear below my ground floor window, it then goes underground and reappears 3 foot away up and is then an elbow. My question is how deep should this pipe be ? This is the trap given it’s a 15 foot drop how deep should it go underground to create the trap 6 inches or more ? Dave
The depth of the water in a trap doesn't have to be great since the static pressure of the system is usually like 0.5 inches of water. That's why a trap with only two inches of water is fine. Technically, as long as the water column in the trap is more than the total external static pressure of the system (using inches of water for pressure), the trap will seal and water will flow out when the system in running. If your drain line goes under your slab, the trap would be more than good enough.
Let me start out by saying that I enjoy watching your videos. Watching this one on condensation ,I disagree with your statement on saturated insulation in air handler .To advise removing and replacing with foam board is correcting one problem and creating a potential larger problem. Foam board is highly flammable. Afire inside cabinet from a motor would ignite foam board and potentially create a structure fire. Explain that to insurance company. Technician just voided UL listing of equipment. Insurance company denies claim.
I like your videos. May I ask; what part of Florida are you located which allows the condensate to be routed to the ground?. South of Houston, any condensate flow to the ground (normally due to a backed up primary drain) will create a swamp along the side of the house. On high humidity days; up to half the A/C energy consumed is for condensation of the water in the air. Air Conditioners here make lots of condensate. The primary drain ties into the DWV piping which can cause another set of potential problems.
Orlando
I tried using the foam sheets but was a little concerned about flammability.
In Chicagoland. Residential equipment evap coils are ahead of blower/ operate in + air pressure. Besides putting a clean out T, we don't trap such drains. Is equivalent set up different in FL? Why would an open drain on + pressure need to be trapped??
Hi, I saw a you tube video on this...look around you tube...
But the reason is you DO install a trap : to trap air from blowing out of the unit.....so + or - pressure you must stop the air flow...trap deep enough to create a trap seal and condensate will flow...*note* needs to be refilled with water after cleaning
Oh also vented after the trap seal
So why do you guys do the p-trap like that? Underground
My man using that finasteride, flowing lochs of hair. Instantly becomes a better tech
0:09 - Better condescending than condensating, right?
Lizards and snails even tiny mice or bugs can get in there and clog it as well happens all the time specially in Florida now if you don’t have a trap you’ll get clogged even faster more likely. I don’t think the snails but definitely the lizards he even a tiny snake?
the best
💪🏼
Three rules of plumbing.
Im sorry but did he say martin luther king?
👍
Hello l need to guide me to best software hvac for my company
Sometimes condescension is required!
Thanks again for the videos.
🍺🍺🍺🥃🥃⛳🎳
Stay safe.
Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses!
Why do you have a trap? As far as I know, in Australia we run condensate downhill to ground. Definitely in small split systems.
I'm confused... Didn't you not have hair??? Lol
Too condensating .
Simple ==> up flow ( furnace on the bottom) creates negative pressure and sucking the air from the drain line, therefore, condenser water can’t drain out from the condenser pan. Down flow ( furnace on the top) creates positive pressure and hot air will blow out from the ac coil drain hole to the air when turn on the furnace. Conclusion: All the Ac need to have p trap to block the air suck in or blow out from the AC drain hole. Am I right ? Please advise, thanks.
Excellent explanation of the double trap scenario we have with condensate drains, have you tried to implement the a/c easy tee system for drain maintenance? My Boss has had us using that system for a couple of years and has reduced call backs tremendously and we don’t dread having to cut the line every time we do service