I retired after forty years as an operations agent for a major airline. Thought I'd seen everything. Well, I was wrong. I've dealt with plenty of bird strikes and more than a few cracked windshields and damaged nose cones. This was a whole new level of damage. Great video.
I’m guessing not with an airline that flies into Alberta a lot? I’ve seen hail damage like this on aircraft many times in the past, and I’m not even a pilot.
@@Ea-Nasir_Copper_Co Is that from exceptionally large hail or the amount & intensity at that altitude? It looks like it was struck by a cow! Terrifying
Awesome video! The production work gets better and better! The 3D imaging and shots of the aircraft, even the audio levels adjusted, wow. This is excellent work by somebody who loves and cares about what they do. Great video!
Not a pilot but I've spent my life in the Marines and FDNY and that controller did an incredible job. Calmness and efficiency in situations like that go a long way to making everybody feel a bit better. Pilots as well, that's a lot of damage.
I got caught in a golfball-sized hailstorm driving on the highway once, and the noise was terrifying - like getting hit with a hundred baseball bats. I can't imagine it while being up in the air.
Also once had a big hailstorm when driving. Not so nice. But at leas, we can easily slow down. Not so great, when you have to keep 60/70 tonns in the air.
I didn't realize that an airplane could fly with that kind of damage. Makes me feel safer when I'm flying. Redundant systems works. Wow. Thanks for the pictures. Wow.
From the looks of the nose you'd think they lost a fight with a boulder. Thank goodness they were all okay. It's amazing the pilots managed to land with that windshield
@@philipwhiuk I actually was a little disappointed that they didn't drop the professionalism for one second to properly communicate how utterly fucked the nose was. If there's any time to say something like that on frequency, this was it.
First time to see the usage of a discrete frequency for a emergency in the USA. Here in The Netherlands we have a discrete frequency for emergencies where all sectors, approach, towers can work on if needed. So the aircraft doesnt have to switch frequency, just the ATC controllers switch.
Internationally ( including the US) the freq 121.5 is used as an "emergency" freq. Civilian and Military constantly monitor the freq, but if a flight needs to declare an emergency there is no need to change to 121.5. The AA flight would have been in contact with Albuquerque Center and would have declared an emergency with ABQ Center. *IF* there was any issue with the plane changing frequencies, they would have moved everybody else off that freq. But in this case AA was able to change frequencies, so the prudent path was move them to an empty freq. and then everyone that needs to can just monitor that freq.
With the 121.500 GUARD freq, its pretty much the same but its mostly used by ATC's and Air Defence stations to call up planes who dont respond on the ussual sector frequencies. The DEF freq, 120.875 (or 120.880 with the 8.33 spacing), is a Dutch nationalwide frequency for emergencies within the Amsterdam FIR where all airports, upper and lower area control sectors and militairy ATC can operate on. See for example: audioboom.com/posts/3762027-csa619-mayday-01-11-15
jschrager23 someone screwed up big time. Even funnier was the crew telling pax that this is the kind of stuff they train for, which isn’t true at all 😄
well they train for handling hail damage i believe. some boeing even have been tested for landing capability while looking out of the open side window there is a youtube th-cam.com/video/dEMcD-RWA9A/w-d-xo.html but i doubt that they train for that procedure. not disputing that they screwed up though.
Things to consider. The onboard radar in airliners is state of the art but when precipitation turns into frozen hail it does not show up as a radar return with the same clarity as liquid precipitation. The engineering space in the radar dome at the front of the airplane is very close so any damage to the [ so called ] RA Dome, will prevent the antenna from oscillating [ sweeping ] and the radar becomes unusable. Ice [ as large as baseballs ]contacting an aircraft which travels close to the speed of sound will do tremendous damage. The crew did a great job.
Why isn't the return off of hail as good? Is it because of the wavelength range of the radar or something else? (Meteorology student asking, so I'm used to the NWS network of 88Ds that give high reflectivities for hail.)
@@TH-cam.TOM.A For ground radars, I know snow isn't as reflective either, but from what I've been taught, dry vs. wet hail doesn't have that much of an impact on the NWS NEXRADs. They can usually see thunderstorm tops pretty well. I'm curious as to what part of the radar leads to that difference. I'll have to watch that video to see if they explain. Thanks for the link!
@@zacwarrior82 The equipment that I used had airborne doppler and was satisfactory for airline use. I have flown around in 100 % IFR visibility in icing conditions, and had no radar return, not just clouds but icing conditions, using anti ice equipment on wings and engines. Hail does not always show up; if it is wet hail your chances are better to have radar returns. You also have to consider that as a rule Airline equipment separates itself from significant radar activity, by at least 20 miles, but I have had pebbles of hail hitting the front windscreen with no radar returns.
@@TH-cam.TOM.A I'm not questioning you or the equipment as I have no experience with this. My questions are merely out of curiosity. What I'm wondering is why airborne radars struggle to pick up dry hail whereas ground radars do not. I know it's related to the reflectivity of dry hail; however, if the NWS ground radars don't have issues picking it up but airborne radars do, then there is a difference in the radars leading to this. That's what I'm wondering about. Nexrad radars are S-band radars and I believe airborne radars operate on a higher frequency (like C or X band, correct me if I'm wrong), so my guess is that the higher frequency changes the scattering properties of dry hail enough to lower the reflectivity considerably for airborne radars. Or potentially something else? That's interesting to know that airborne radars can struggle to pick up hydrometeors even if they are hitting the aircraft. Adds perspective to how important aviation forecasting is.
I am always amazed in this kind of situations there seems to be always quite a lot of confusions on ground between ATC, aircaft, ops vehicles, ambulances etc. There seems always to have pople talk on wrong frequency, switch back and forth on different frequencies before communication is established
I just had a thought. You can use the powerful transmissions from analog TV stations as a very basic passive radar. When a aircraft passes through the signal it gets scattered and it is very easy to detect this using $20 hardware and the appropiate antenna. As the aircraft passes the Doppler shift is quite visible. How do aircraft comms deal with this? Is the Doppler shit miniscule that the frequency doesn't change to a noticeable degree?
This probably has to do with the physical radios themselves. Mobile units, the radios in ground vehicles, don't get a lot of vertical lift and the tower is several hundred feet up. They are all supposed to be on different frequencies, so if a vehicle is in a 'dead zone' (which might only be a few feet wide) they can't hear that someone is talking to them, or they can't be heard. Hence all the switching, trying to find a frequency that works for everyone. Once the plane is on the ground, there's time for that.
Great video as always! Just a suggestion maybe you can change the color of RED subtitle because it's kinda hard to read especially in small screen and low quality. Maybe use lighter red or orange for substitute.
Johnathan Bruno exactly. She handled it like it was any other landing. That's what you want. Getting excited does no one any good. She did us in El Paso proud.
Wow this is probably the best one yet! 👏 both the pilots and the atc were cool as cucumbers. Great pics too. Wonder if safelight has has those windows in stock😁
Hey, just wondering if you could look into this one incident up here at CYVR on the 12 of June. There was this one United flight that, at around 0825 local time said that he was having electrical problems. After leaving Canadian airspace, he seemed to do some sort of box pattern for a few minuets, but then returned to CYVR as an emergency. People in the terminal (myself included) gathered to watch this flight land and then had about 6 or 7 fire engines trail behind it. I got a few videos of the incident, so if you want them, I can send them to you. Thank you so much for these great videos, keep them coming!
What's going on with all the frequencies after they landed? They seem to have changed to a different (maybe the "normal" and not the designated one they got earlier) approach frequency and everyone tried to contact them on ground frequency, even though they didn't tell them to go to ground frequency?
Hello State Farm, I would like to report a claim. Ok what it the damage? Well our windshield is broken and some damage to the front of the vehicle. Did you get a estimate? Yes we did, between 1 and 5 million dollars. Can you tell me what are deductible is? Hahahnanaaz
LOL, I always love these. ATC - Straight and to the point. Pilots - Straight and to the point. Ground vehicles - Hhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yeeaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we're are over.......over..........yheah we are over here at Alpha.....Alpha........Alpha 4. Looking for uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh permission to go ahead anddddddddd cros on over.
Well done by the crew. Having the windows shatter like that has to be one hell of a shock and trying to land with just about zero forward visibility can't be fun...... -Ski
Yes I get it, modern planes can land on auto-pilot if you enter the airport into the computer, hence the need for the tow to the gate, cause they had zero visibility through the windscreen, great job by the windscreen maker, at flying speed which is 5-6 times faster than a car, it did not collapse even with great damage. Am wondering if this flight crew kept their jobs since this could have been avoided, and did NTSB investigate? Very calm professional on the radio, especially the ATC. Nice
I’m just wondering how they got into this situation to begin with. Be nice to hear the conversations with center. Did they try and shoot a gap to go between cells? Or did it all erupt very quickly.
The antennas may have taken a few hits, if the slight communications difficulties they had a couple times are any indication. Of course that could just be stressed out pilots not managing the radios well, but I'll forgive that since they got the aircraft safely on the ground. I know I wouldn't have done as good of a job.
A chunk of ice at 300-500 knots will mess you up pretty good. Can you imagine what the crackling and crunching of that windshield must've sounded like when they started getting pelted?
When I was in San Antonio two years ago a hail storm came through and punched holes in roofs and made car dealerships parking lots looking like a Cobra gunship made a gun run. I can't imagine flying through that at speed.
in 1977 a severe hailstorm over Georgia downed Southern Airways 242. The DC-9 flew through the hailstorm and suffered damage to the windshield, but hail also knocked out power to both engines. The pilots attempted to land on a county highway, but struck a gas station while touching down. 72 people (63 on the plane, 9 on the ground) died, while 20 passengers and both flight attendants survived.
just a map with airplanes on it. the blue dash with the dots behind it is the airplane and where it was short time ago. enlarging the dots and dashes would be nice though.
It's basically what the controller sees on his screen. The markings are not labeled to reduce clutter, learning what is what is part of the training. What is shown is configurable, usually you have airway intersections, reporting points (fixes), VORs, airports and some others I can't remember at the moment. Weather radar can be added as well.
It would be hard for you to see runways hard to explain, look for circle, in center are runways, you can see dashed line leading to some runways in center of circle. Example KBIF is Fort Bliss airfield very close. KELP Elpaso is the airport, There are 3 runways 6 total directions. 2 parallel east/west plus another NE/SW runway. Do you see it now?
It's basically an airport diagram of KELP, with the runway at KBIF (Biggs Army Airfield-1.5 miles north of KELP) shown. It looks like the TRACON scope (Terminal Radar Approach Contoller), which also shows the controller the extended runway centerlines. The restricted airspace north of El Paso (for White Sands Missile Range/Holloman Air Force Base) is also shown.
Aviation Fan787 That is pretty normal for a hail designed aircraft.. The composite is supposed to let the radar signal through it so it is actually pretty thin.
As an instrument rated, commercially-certificated pilot (only fly for recreational, though) I am dismayed at a major airline penetrating a super-cell thunderstorm. Especially with the incredible weather-avoidance gear at any pilot's disposal. Wow.
Man why am I tearing up at the end of this, oh man - we mostly have no idea what's going on (and we shouldn't) but I wish everyone could just understand the professionalism and just masterwork these people do to keep cool heads and ensure the safety of passengers, crew, and personel, damn amazing. This is why qualified people do jobs that are important.
And here I was thinking I was the cool cat who managed to drive through a hailstorm on the interstate and it took out my windshield, cooling fan, radiator, and severely damaged the oil cover when the belts and pullies sent it flying up to the hood of the car. I got nothing compared to this plane. lol
What's happening? Blown out pax windows, blown out ckpt windows and cracked windshields. How in the world did they land with a windshield like that?!?!
As said by the other guy, training, skill, and technology. And I heard from a Mentour Pilot or Captain Joe video that if they can't see anything from the windshield they might need to open the window and stick their head out.
DLB19901107 If they airport has a CAT III ILS approach the airplane can literally complete the full landing itself. Now just to be clear I can’t got and have my Cessna do that, but a million dollar airbus or Boeing with the right systems and autopilots can.
Slick work from the Controller. But no trip to the White House...I think that was a bit more difficult than shooting a single engine approach...other than explaining why they screwed up in not using the weather radar.
JohnnyG sometimes when weather is very bad, especially hail, the radar is unable to detect it because of what's called attenuation. Look up radar attenuation or weather attenuation. They thought they turned for a clear spot which was actually hail covered in rain. Wet hail is nearly impossible to detect with many radar systems.
That whole area should have been avoided. Large storms like that should be given a 20 nautical mile berth flying around it. These guys were inside of it! No, this is not what should have happened. Dry hail has less reflectivity than rain so the pilots could have been avoiding the heavy reflectivity areas (in red) and flew towards green or yellow and got smashed with hail. Going back to my 20 nm berth point - this is exactly why you should give these storms a wide berth from ALL reflectivity (including green) and not just avoid the red areas.
Sccratlanta it looks like they tried. Not so successful. As I said, they shouldn’t have done that. They should have avoided the entire storm area. Going into that storm is like flipping a dice because you can’t get a full picture of the storm using airborne radar so you may be flying into a trap.
A very similar thing happened to a Delta A320 a couple years ago over the northern midwest. They were about the shoot through a gap in the storms, but the storm built up in front of them too fast for them to beat it. I suspect this incident was similar.
Therion018 what I’m pointing out is that this is a screw up. This is not normal. They shouldn’t have done it. Shooting between storms is not something you “try” to do to see how it goes. It’s something you avoid because you cause significant damage to the aircraft and potentially people will be injured. This is not something to be viewed as “ah crap, the weather just got the best of them”. No. We know this can happen and pilots are educated to fly around storms by 20 nm for these exact reasons.
Damn, they were right in the thick of it. It was made worse by the fact that the weather radar probably couldn't penetrate the outer walls of the storm so they could take the quickest path out, and it looks like the poor bastards were scrambling while inside the cell.
Why didn't Approach hand them off to tower ? Seems like App landed them which is unusual and didn't even ask them to switch to tower or ground until they really needed them
It sounds like they were barely able to communicate at all - there don't seem to be repsonses to most of the transmissions from approach. That may be partially due to the location this was being recorded from, but approach DOES say at one point that they are not in contact with the plane, and they have to hunt around to find what frequency it's on.
What I'd like to know is why did nobody video this as it was happening! It had to be crazy in that plane and everyone has a camera....and yet there's no video of it. I really want to know what sounded like.
It always seems on these video's that there's little prior communications contingency planning between ops and rescue vehicles. Its as if everyone started work five minutes prior to the planes arrival at the airport and if I was to inspect the aircraft, I think the damage to the nose would have been obvious to the flight crew. Id be looking at engines and leading edges and the tail plane without having to have been asked. You know...stuff the pilot cant see from where he's sitting. Then check the runway for FOD as soon as possible. You know, its kind of an airport. You should have an SOP for airport kinda contingencies.
I’m a bit surprised that he didn’t land instead in Tucson rather than El Paso. Of course I have no idea what the weather may have been like at Tucson, but the weather he had to fly through in order to land in ELP was pretty bad. Likely the PA’s needed to be put up in hotels however had they continued the straight shot to TUS they could have been bused to PHX. TUS 29R would have required a minimum of vectoring and that sucker is 11,000 feet long.
Hey VASAviation! Can you do a video on the crash in Daytona that involved an instructor and a student in a Piper Seminole? It was from my school and they suspect microbursts at this time. Thanks! Love your videos
![[REAL ATC] American B757 has COMPLETE RADIO FAILURE out of Kennedy!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wcq6KipBOro/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] American B757 has COMPLETE RADIO FAILURE out of Kennedy!](/img/tr.png)
I retired after forty years as an operations agent for a major airline. Thought I'd seen everything. Well, I was wrong. I've dealt with plenty of bird strikes and more than a few cracked windshields and damaged nose cones. This was a whole new level of damage. Great video.
elk hunter imagine the noise inside the cabin
steff serpent oh that would be scary, I have pretty much no fear of flying but I might be a little worried in this situation! The noises oh no!
Well, its always like that. You're convinced you've seen it all and right then or shortly after something happens that on a whole another level.
I’m guessing not with an airline that flies into Alberta a lot? I’ve seen hail damage like this on aircraft many times in the past, and I’m not even a pilot.
@@Ea-Nasir_Copper_Co Is that from exceptionally large hail or the amount & intensity at that altitude? It looks like it was struck by a cow! Terrifying
Safelite Repair, safelite replace.
$50.00 deductable! 🤣😂
I hate and love this
Speedy glass repair, speedy glass replace
(also: Autoglass in the UK)
Carglass répare, Carglass remplace
(yeah it's like that in France)
You're all nuts. That'll just buff out.
Wish I could've seen the pilots' expressions when they saw the nose cone afterwards. Incredible.
Awesome video! The production work gets better and better! The 3D imaging and shots of the aircraft, even the audio levels adjusted, wow. This is excellent work by somebody who loves and cares about what they do. Great video!
Thanks for watching!
“Ya they got a bit of nose damage as well” *show nose completely dented in* lol
Not a pilot but I've spent my life in the Marines and FDNY and that controller did an incredible job. Calmness and efficiency in situations like that go a long way to making everybody feel a bit better. Pilots as well, that's a lot of damage.
Can you imagine the sound from inside the aircraft?
Like a dishwasher being beaten with a million golf clubs... and you're strapped inside the dishwasher.
@@gastonbell108 😂😂😂
@@gastonbell108 or worse...in a washing machine on full high spin with a load of golf balls
I'm trying to imagine what it must have been like to deplane, turn around, and look through the terminal window.
Jordan Rodrigues I can imagine being thankful to get out and also somewhat less annoyed about having to wait for another plane.
I watch way too many aviation videos and that was the most helpful and on the ball controller ever.
I got caught in a golfball-sized hailstorm driving on the highway once, and the noise was terrifying - like getting hit with a hundred baseball bats. I can't imagine it while being up in the air.
Also once had a big hailstorm when driving. Not so nice. But at leas, we can easily slow down. Not so great, when you have to keep 60/70 tonns in the air.
Be glad it’s not softball sized hail. My dad’s car had to be in repairs for about a week.
The captain probably landed the plane like how Ace Ventura drives, with his head out the driver window.
@Zeksteve It was a joke... 🙄
@@Victor_Victory just ow that would hurt to do that
@Zeksteve whoosh...
LIKE A GLOVE?!?
P pop
That had to be pretty dang scary for the pilots, watching your windshields getting destroyed three feet away from you.
I didn't realize that an airplane could fly with that kind of damage. Makes me feel safer when I'm flying. Redundant systems works. Wow. Thanks for the pictures. Wow.
From the looks of the nose you'd think they lost a fight with a boulder. Thank goodness they were all okay. It's amazing the pilots managed to land with that windshield
The noses are made of fibreglass (aka glass-reinforced plastic) for radar transparency.
"Could you ask Ops if they see any damage on the airplane besides just the windshields?"- Umm, do you really wanna know? :D
Caracal yeah when he said let me check around the aircraft for you I was thinking shouldn't he of done that already
At that point, they were going to get towed in anyway, so it didn't really matter. Maybe he was asking on behalf of the company.
He was getting the information ready for his "I fucked up" call to company.
"Ya your plane looks like it landed on it's nose" would have been my response.
@@philipwhiuk I actually was a little disappointed that they didn't drop the professionalism for one second to properly communicate how utterly fucked the nose was.
If there's any time to say something like that on frequency, this was it.
First time to see the usage of a discrete frequency for a emergency in the USA. Here in The Netherlands we have a discrete frequency for emergencies where all sectors, approach, towers can work on if needed. So the aircraft doesnt have to switch frequency, just the ATC controllers switch.
Wouter112 that sounds like a good solution. Would like to see the US change rules.
Internationally ( including the US) the freq 121.5 is used as an "emergency" freq. Civilian and Military constantly monitor the freq, but if a flight needs to declare an emergency there is no need to change to 121.5. The AA flight would have been in contact with Albuquerque Center and would have declared an emergency with ABQ Center. *IF* there was any issue with the plane changing frequencies, they would have moved everybody else off that freq. But in this case AA was able to change frequencies, so the prudent path was move them to an empty freq. and then everyone that needs to can just monitor that freq.
With the 121.500 GUARD freq, its pretty much the same but its mostly used by ATC's and Air Defence stations to call up planes who dont respond on the ussual sector frequencies.
The DEF freq, 120.875 (or 120.880 with the 8.33 spacing), is a Dutch nationalwide frequency for emergencies within the Amsterdam FIR where all airports, upper and lower area control sectors and militairy ATC can operate on.
See for example: audioboom.com/posts/3762027-csa619-mayday-01-11-15
@@Wouter112 Yer on Guuuaaaarrrrdddd!
This episode is so intense. Great work again. The cell graphics really added to the realization.
*Most of you asked for it and here it is! Apparently this aircraft went right through the very worst part of the cell...*
aren't they supposed to avoid weather? what happened here
jschrager23 someone screwed up big time. Even funnier was the crew telling pax that this is the kind of stuff they train for, which isn’t true at all 😄
Fcreceptor yeah. Someone did. This could’ve ended much worse than it did
well they train for handling hail damage i believe. some boeing even have been tested for landing capability while looking out of the open side window there is a youtube th-cam.com/video/dEMcD-RWA9A/w-d-xo.html
but i doubt that they train for that procedure.
not disputing that they screwed up though.
Thanks for posting. I live in El Paso and was driving to Phoenix and had barely crossed into Arizona when the storm hit our area.
Things to consider. The onboard radar in airliners is state of the art but when precipitation turns into frozen hail it does not show up as a radar return with the same clarity as liquid precipitation. The engineering space in the radar dome at the front of the airplane is very close so any damage to the [ so called ] RA Dome, will prevent the antenna from oscillating [ sweeping ] and the radar becomes unusable. Ice [ as large as baseballs ]contacting an aircraft which travels close to the speed of sound will do tremendous damage. The crew did a great job.
Why isn't the return off of hail as good? Is it because of the wavelength range of the radar or something else? (Meteorology student asking, so I'm used to the NWS network of 88Ds that give high reflectivities for hail.)
@@zacwarrior82 Dry snow and hail is not as reflective th-cam.com/video/c83k1Zttxpw/w-d-xo.html
@@TH-cam.TOM.A For ground radars, I know snow isn't as reflective either, but from what I've been taught, dry vs. wet hail doesn't have that much of an impact on the NWS NEXRADs. They can usually see thunderstorm tops pretty well. I'm curious as to what part of the radar leads to that difference. I'll have to watch that video to see if they explain. Thanks for the link!
@@zacwarrior82 The equipment that I used had airborne doppler and was satisfactory for airline use. I have flown around in 100 % IFR visibility in icing conditions, and had no radar return, not just clouds but icing conditions, using anti ice equipment on wings and engines. Hail does not always show up; if it is wet hail your chances are better to have radar returns. You also have to consider that as a rule Airline equipment separates itself from significant radar activity, by at least 20 miles, but I have had pebbles of hail hitting the front windscreen with no radar returns.
@@TH-cam.TOM.A I'm not questioning you or the equipment as I have no experience with this. My questions are merely out of curiosity. What I'm wondering is why airborne radars struggle to pick up dry hail whereas ground radars do not. I know it's related to the reflectivity of dry hail; however, if the NWS ground radars don't have issues picking it up but airborne radars do, then there is a difference in the radars leading to this. That's what I'm wondering about. Nexrad radars are S-band radars and I believe airborne radars operate on a higher frequency (like C or X band, correct me if I'm wrong), so my guess is that the higher frequency changes the scattering properties of dry hail enough to lower the reflectivity considerably for airborne radars. Or potentially something else?
That's interesting to know that airborne radars can struggle to pick up hydrometeors even if they are hitting the aircraft. Adds perspective to how important aviation forecasting is.
I am always amazed in this kind of situations there seems to be always quite a lot of confusions on ground between ATC, aircaft, ops vehicles, ambulances etc. There seems always to have pople talk on wrong frequency, switch back and forth on different frequencies before communication is established
12345fowler that's why these videos are so awesome.
IMO the confusion is not that bad but it would be great tech to have a way to see which unit is on which frequency. Would save a lot of time.
I just had a thought. You can use the powerful transmissions from analog TV stations as a very basic passive radar. When a aircraft passes through the signal it gets scattered and it is very easy to detect this using $20 hardware and the appropiate antenna. As the aircraft passes the Doppler shift is quite visible. How do aircraft comms deal with this? Is the Doppler shit miniscule that the frequency doesn't change to a noticeable degree?
This probably has to do with the physical radios themselves. Mobile units, the radios in ground vehicles, don't get a lot of vertical lift and the tower is several hundred feet up. They are all supposed to be on different frequencies, so if a vehicle is in a 'dead zone' (which might only be a few feet wide) they can't hear that someone is talking to them, or they can't be heard. Hence all the switching, trying to find a frequency that works for everyone. Once the plane is on the ground, there's time for that.
At farmers insurance, we know a thing or two because we have seen a thing or two. We are farmers, bum da bum tada bum bum bum.
The we are farners bum da bum part played on the tv at the exact same time i read that at the same speed.
That damage is crazy. It looks like he just flew into a block of ice...
Great video as always! Just a suggestion maybe you can change the color of RED subtitle because it's kinda hard to read especially in small screen and low quality. Maybe use lighter red or orange for substitute.
i second that
I've never experienced hail that could do this amount of damage. Quite incredible!
Try running into it at NASCAR-level speeds. It'll do damage like that, for sure.
That controller is a pro
CowsRus she was calm, clear and precise
Johnathan Bruno exactly. She handled it like it was any other landing. That's what you want. Getting excited does no one any good. She did us in El Paso proud.
I really love when she recommended to turn up the runway lights, thinking outside the box..
Exactly what I was thinking. Solid, professional, and calm. Can't ask for more than that.
ELP ATC are all students
Wow this is probably the best one yet! 👏 both the pilots and the atc were cool as cucumbers. Great pics too. Wonder if safelight has has those windows in stock😁
Thanks for putting up these communications.. I know it takes up a lot of time and it is much appreciated
It really does. Thanks.
OPS3 sounded like he wanted to stay sleeping and not be bothered by all these annoying emergency things.
Hey, just wondering if you could look into this one incident up here at CYVR on the 12 of June. There was this one United flight that, at around 0825 local time said that he was having electrical problems. After leaving Canadian airspace, he seemed to do some sort of box pattern for a few minuets, but then returned to CYVR as an emergency. People in the terminal (myself included) gathered to watch this flight land and then had about 6 or 7 fire engines trail behind it. I got a few videos of the incident, so if you want them, I can send them to you. Thank you so much for these great videos, keep them coming!
Whatever happened to old philosophy of never ever fly through a thunderstorm?
they dont give a shit
Nose cones are overrated.
Just a little fiber glass and resin. Slap another one together and pop it in place in no time.
To all those long-time pilots that always crawl out beneath the rocks with "advice". how do you know what happens? You don't.
Maximisation of profits and cutting of corners is what happened.
What's going on with all the frequencies after they landed?
They seem to have changed to a different (maybe the "normal" and not the designated one they got earlier) approach frequency and everyone tried to contact them on ground frequency, even though they didn't tell them to go to ground frequency?
That’s why you stay 20 miles away from a storm !!
Because the hail can reach out several miles from the cell.
Yes the books say 20nm... but in reality airline travel would go below a snails pace if cells weren't skirted during regular ops.
Hello State Farm, I would like to report a claim. Ok what it the damage? Well our windshield is broken and some damage to the front of the vehicle. Did you get a estimate? Yes we did, between 1 and 5 million dollars. Can you tell me what are deductible is? Hahahnanaaz
KD0LRG i
We know a thing or two cause we've seen a thing or two.
@@JohnTimothyRatliffe That's Farmers Insurance.
Roflmao!
Fantastic ATC. Great weather graphics. Thank you for all your work.
LOL, I always love these.
ATC - Straight and to the point.
Pilots - Straight and to the point.
Ground vehicles - Hhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yeeaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we're are over.......over..........yheah we are over here at Alpha.....Alpha........Alpha 4. Looking for uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh permission to go ahead anddddddddd cros on over.
Not a pilot, but imagine deplaning that as a passenger. It would freak me out for days to see half of the nose missing on a plane I was on.
Well done by the crew. Having the windows shatter like that has to be one hell of a shock and trying to land with just about zero forward visibility can't be fun......
-Ski
1:42 amazing touch! you always add easy to understand, relevant information!
Yes I get it, modern planes can land on auto-pilot if you enter the airport into the computer, hence the need for the tow to the gate, cause they had zero visibility through the windscreen, great job by the windscreen maker, at flying speed which is 5-6 times faster than a car, it did not collapse even with great damage. Am wondering if this flight crew kept their jobs since this could have been avoided, and did NTSB investigate? Very calm professional on the radio, especially the ATC. Nice
I’m just wondering how they got into this situation to begin with. Be nice to hear the conversations with center. Did they try and shoot a gap to go between cells? Or did it all erupt very quickly.
Great coverage... thanks for sharing. Blancolerio (Juan Brown) suggested your channel. Glad he did.
Never expected my city to make it in your channel, good stuff!
We don't often have thunderstorms packing that much power go through El Paso but according to my girlfriend, that storm was pretty intense.
the controller lady is fantastic!!!
With all that damage they are lucky the antennas didn't break off.
The antennas may have taken a few hits, if the slight communications difficulties they had a couple times are any indication.
Of course that could just be stressed out pilots not managing the radios well, but I'll forgive that since they got the aircraft safely on the ground. I know I wouldn't have done as good of a job.
Looks like he ran into a small, icy comet.
Jesus! Thats what hail CAN DO?!?!?!
When it's baseball size, yes.
A chunk of ice at 300-500 knots will mess you up pretty good. Can you imagine what the crackling and crunching of that windshield must've sounded like when they started getting pelted?
When I was in San Antonio two years ago a hail storm came through and punched holes in roofs and made car dealerships parking lots looking like a Cobra gunship made a gun run. I can't imagine flying through that at speed.
Yeh. Not a great idea to stick your head out the window during that!
in 1977 a severe hailstorm over Georgia downed Southern Airways 242. The DC-9 flew through the hailstorm and suffered damage to the windshield, but hail also knocked out power to both engines. The pilots attempted to land on a county highway, but struck a gas station while touching down. 72 people (63 on the plane, 9 on the ground) died, while 20 passengers and both flight attendants survived.
I was here on the ground just south of where this plane encountered bad weather and it rained and hailed intensely for a couple hours.
As a non pilot I have no idea what I am looking at with the black maps.
just a map with airplanes on it. the blue dash with the dots behind it is the airplane and where it was short time ago.
enlarging the dots and dashes would be nice though.
It's basically what the controller sees on his screen. The markings are not labeled to reduce clutter, learning what is what is part of the training. What is shown is configurable, usually you have airway intersections, reporting points (fixes), VORs, airports and some others I can't remember at the moment. Weather radar can be added as well.
It would be hard for you to see runways hard to explain, look for circle, in center are runways, you can see dashed line leading to some runways in center of circle. Example KBIF is Fort Bliss airfield very close. KELP Elpaso is the airport, There are 3 runways 6 total directions. 2 parallel east/west plus another NE/SW runway. Do you see it now?
It's basically an airport diagram of KELP, with the runway at KBIF (Biggs Army Airfield-1.5 miles north of KELP) shown. It looks like the TRACON scope (Terminal Radar Approach Contoller), which also shows the controller the extended runway centerlines. The restricted airspace north of El Paso (for White Sands Missile Range/Holloman Air Force Base) is also shown.
I'm not a pilot, haven't even played sims but I understood the map perfectly well.
Must've felt like hitting a wall when they hit that hail.
A miracle they landed safely! Great job !
Kinda scary to see the photo of the front part of the aircraft broken, The pilots were heroes. they managed to land it safely
Aviation Fan787 That is pretty normal for a hail designed aircraft.. The composite is supposed to let the radar signal through it so it is actually pretty thin.
Departed KSAT in a PA24 during wind shear. Had a 90 MPH tailwind landed 124 miles away at KILE 19 minutes later.
In El Paso, i saw the plane and it looked really banged up
I need explanation, please. If nose cone and windshield are THIS badly damaged...how so that rest of the plane is ok??
As an instrument rated, commercially-certificated pilot (only fly for recreational, though) I am dismayed at a major airline penetrating a super-cell thunderstorm. Especially with the incredible weather-avoidance gear at any pilot's disposal. Wow.
I that's what's been done to the nose cone and windshield, I really would insist on a full check-up on the engines.
I bet that aircraft took some handling with all that damage on the nose . And that woman controller did a wonderful job well done her !
Man why am I tearing up at the end of this, oh man - we mostly have no idea what's going on (and we shouldn't) but I wish everyone could just understand the professionalism and just masterwork these people do to keep cool heads and ensure the safety of passengers, crew, and personel, damn amazing. This is why qualified people do jobs that are important.
And here I was thinking I was the cool cat who managed to drive through a hailstorm on the interstate and it took out my windshield, cooling fan, radiator, and severely damaged the oil cover when the belts and pullies sent it flying up to the hood of the car. I got nothing compared to this plane. lol
Incredibly professional....job well done!!!!!
Yea... EP is my hometown. Those storms can be extremely violent. Ops 3 needs to get it together....
I wonder what that last couple hundred feet was like before touchdown. Did the pilots stick their head out the window like Ace Ventura?
Ian Neubert It was a 321, they probably used Autoland.
Keyword.....”was”
Isnt it a319?
Hansen firdianto Sorry, meant 319.
IFR presumably
Let's give a hand to who ever design those windscreens...
That must have been one hail of a storm! 😳
What's happening? Blown out pax windows, blown out ckpt windows and cracked windshields. How in the world did they land with a windshield like that?!?!
As said by the other guy, training, skill, and technology. And I heard from a Mentour Pilot or Captain Joe video that if they can't see anything from the windshield they might need to open the window and stick their head out.
Elang Lugito joe made that video...
DLB19901107 If they airport has a CAT III ILS approach the airplane can literally complete the full landing itself. Now just to be clear I can’t got and have my Cessna do that, but a million dollar airbus or Boeing with the right systems and autopilots can.
Crew will have these pictures to show their grandchildren! A little bragging rights for Grandpa!
relevant "stick your head out the window" video:
th-cam.com/video/dEMcD-RWA9A/w-d-xo.html
Why did they fly into magenta? That usually indicates hail or really really bad storms.
I'm sorry a HAILSTORM did that?!? 😮
Slick work from the Controller. But no trip to the White House...I think that was a bit more difficult than shooting a single engine approach...other than explaining why they screwed up in not using the weather radar.
Well handled by a bunch of professionals! Thanks for the video!
Tom Losh I highly doubt someone "proffesional" would still fly anywhere near such a storm in the first place!
Very enjoyable video. You even got the tug in there.
Thanks for sharing! Great video. Lots of work
All respect to ATC.
damn the damage omg that had to be scary as hell thank god the engines didnt die
I'd be going straight in for landing instead of circling, suspecting some engine damage.
Even the plane's nose on the radar image is flattened by that hailstorm
I didn't know Brian Williams was piloting AA1897.
Why did they fly into that insane storm cell??? That's a huge WTF.
JohnnyG sometimes when weather is very bad, especially hail, the radar is unable to detect it because of what's called attenuation. Look up radar attenuation or weather attenuation. They thought they turned for a clear spot which was actually hail covered in rain. Wet hail is nearly impossible to detect with many radar systems.
That whole area should have been avoided. Large storms like that should be given a 20 nautical mile berth flying around it. These guys were inside of it! No, this is not what should have happened. Dry hail has less reflectivity than rain so the pilots could have been avoiding the heavy reflectivity areas (in red) and flew towards green or yellow and got smashed with hail. Going back to my 20 nm berth point - this is exactly why you should give these storms a wide berth from ALL reflectivity (including green) and not just avoid the red areas.
Sccratlanta it looks like they tried. Not so successful. As I said, they shouldn’t have done that. They should have avoided the entire storm area. Going into that storm is like flipping a dice because you can’t get a full picture of the storm using airborne radar so you may be flying into a trap.
A very similar thing happened to a Delta A320 a couple years ago over the northern midwest. They were about the shoot through a gap in the storms, but the storm built up in front of them too fast for them to beat it. I suspect this incident was similar.
Therion018 what I’m pointing out is that this is a screw up. This is not normal. They shouldn’t have done it. Shooting between storms is not something you “try” to do to see how it goes. It’s something you avoid because you cause significant damage to the aircraft and potentially people will be injured.
This is not something to be viewed as “ah crap, the weather just got the best of them”. No. We know this can happen and pilots are educated to fly around storms by 20 nm for these exact reasons.
Damn, they were right in the thick of it. It was made worse by the fact that the weather radar probably couldn't penetrate the outer walls of the storm so they could take the quickest path out, and it looks like the poor bastards were scrambling while inside the cell.
Why didn't Approach hand them off to tower ?
Seems like App landed them which is unusual and didn't even ask them to switch to tower or ground until they really needed them
The antennas may have been damaged by hail and they may not have been functional on a different frequency.
It sounds like they were barely able to communicate at all - there don't seem to be repsonses to most of the transmissions from approach. That may be partially due to the location this was being recorded from, but approach DOES say at one point that they are not in contact with the plane, and they have to hunt around to find what frequency it's on.
*Flies inside hail storm*
AA: Our windshield is damaged
Hail: Bruv I damaged it
What I'd like to know is why did nobody video this as it was happening! It had to be crazy in that plane and everyone has a camera....and yet there's no video of it. I really want to know what sounded like.
Imagine the passengers getting off the plane and seeing that!!! That would’ve been terrifying!!!
They wouldn't have seen much after they depart at the terminal
@@jaypierce9629 Except they would El Paso has big windows facing the aircraft once you exit
That plane is beat to hail. Hail of a job they did getting it down.
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It always seems on these video's that there's little prior communications contingency planning between ops and rescue vehicles. Its as if everyone started work five minutes prior to the planes arrival at the airport and if I was to inspect the aircraft, I think the damage to the nose would have been obvious to the flight crew. Id be looking at engines and leading edges and the tail plane without having to have been asked. You know...stuff the pilot cant see from where he's sitting. Then check the runway for FOD as soon as possible. You know, its kind of an airport. You should have an SOP for airport kinda contingencies.
Great video. As a dispatcher this is one of the things I fear most.
Man how many times they had to call for OPS 3 to respond.
And they were flying in that weather because...
Says everyone that complains when their flight gets delayed....
There was two particularly bad storms here in El Paso in 2015 and 2016
I’m a bit surprised that he didn’t land instead in Tucson rather than El Paso. Of course I have no idea what the weather may have been like at Tucson, but the weather he had to fly through in order to land in ELP was pretty bad. Likely the PA’s needed to be put up in hotels however had they continued the straight shot to TUS they could have been bused to PHX. TUS 29R would have required a minimum of vectoring and that sucker is 11,000 feet long.
Hey VASAviation! Can you do a video on the crash in Daytona that involved an instructor and a student in a Piper Seminole? It was from my school and they suspect microbursts at this time. Thanks! Love your videos
Check the channel for that.
Very professionally handled by both pilots and ATC. As opposed to many of videos from this channel. Take a note especially all of you nosy ATC's.
How close did the pressure bulkhead behind the nosecone come to being damaged? So glad the plane did not depressurize...
I know you said some comms were edited but it seems some at the end should’ve been and prior to landing not have been? Hard choice I guess
Jesus, that’s a lot of damage! 😳
Love to see the tow guys making the graphic at the end
That female atc was fucking on point, great work
Nice! I've heard about that on Adapt 2030!
Uh why would they be anywhere near that cell?? Should've given it a wide berth which they didn't. Awesome video and graphics VAS.
Great video! As always.
9:29 "Thank you very much, American 1897."
yes the atc is a pro for sure great communication good memory as well.