The Psychology of Fear - Dune - Therapist Reacts!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2024
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Real therapist Georgia Dow breaks down the psychology behind the iconic Gom Jabbar scene and the Litany Against Fear between the Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam and Paul Atreides in Denis Villeneuve's Dune!
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Someone may have explained this before but you're totally right about the 'Voice'. In the books, before you can use it you need to study the person, hear them, understand them so you use the right tone to be able to control them. It's not magical, it's a very advanced form of manipulation basically.
It's all fun and games until your moms uses your full legal name. Also IIRC there was a "Voice" user in the old tv show Alphas on syfy and it worked in much the same way. It was a hypnotic style power but wasn't completely irresistible.
I miss that aspect of the books. Things flirted with being metaphysical but were still somewhat grounded in reality. Or as much as they can be for science fiction. The voice is a perfect example and they didn't do a bad job of depicting it even though they didn't explain it much. I wonder how they're going to handle the weirding way.
umm nope, have you even read the books?
@@randomuserame hahaha, you know you're in big trouble when the full name gets wheeled out. Might have used it with my own kids more than once ;-)
Yes and no, spice consumption gives a bit of preternatural insight that negates this.
The box is such a perfect representation of fear. A vessel representative of nothing and containing nothing, yet it can have an incredible power to paralyze us fully.... because we are the ones who fill it with what is unknown yet terrifying to us. Great story-telling is so cool.
Except that the box in Dune creates real, agonising pain through nerve induction. It's like putting your hand in a fire but the nerves cannot die and spare you from continued suffering.
@@Elriuhilu Incorrect. The box creates nothing. It is simply a box with a mechanical door. The reverend mother places the image of pain in his mind and so he feels pain. His actual nerves are not transmitting any pain from his hand. The test determines if he is more instinctual animals vs a thinking human.
The great unknown
@@Elriuhilu Pain only exists due to a mental process. Nerve stimulation and pain are distinct, one is matter the other is mind.
@TheOne Not much else is said besides the comment by Reverend Mother Mohaim that he endured more pain than any other woman who had gone thru the trials to enter the Bene Gesserit sisterhood. It is also indicated that it took a great deal of effort by the Reverend Mother to induce such pain and yet he didn't break. So one could surmise that he, by nature or his mothers training, already surpassed the Reverend Mother's mental discipline.
The litany of the Bene Gesserit ("fear is the mind killer") is something I find useful as a way of reminding me that I have control over my emotions and reactions. They don't control me, or at least they don't have to if I don't want them to. I find it is similar to ideas in Buddhism, or at least related practices. You become the observer and not the subject.
Fear is a reaction, courage is a decision. Courage is is not absence of fear, acting despite of fear.
Not 100% sure, but likely part of the zensunni tradition that has budhist roots.
@@piotrd.4850 My opinion about fear is that we are very scared of been scared and that is useless since fear its impossible to avoid but we must allow ourselves to feel it and pass through us :)
@@Diogolindir The thing is this (and I am sad that even a therapist did not make the distinction): Fear is an evolutionary adaptation. Fear makes you get away from danger. However it is also true, that we often fear things that we need not fear as much as we do, which in turn prevents us from doing things. There are times to let the fear do its job and motivate you to get out of danger. There are also times when "Fear is the mind killer" would be a very useful thing to think. We must learn to distinguish between the two scenarios.
@@josiahferrell5022 I am sure most of us would have died a million times if not for fear
In the book, the Voice takes advantage of every human emotion, fear, anger, love, lust, pride... exploiting every little advantage to create the effect of apparent "mind control". But it's hard to convey that in a movie, so Dennis Villeneuve went with something closer to fear. It's interesting that you compared it to controlling parents, because Villeneuve said he created the Voice to sound like "very ancient powerful grandmothers."
True.
The Voice was a collection of abilities. Not only the direct commands. But Lady Jessica instilled fear in Jamis. I suspect in the movie, when Lady Jessica sniffed Stilar, that probably was planned on meaning something.
She wanted an excuse to kill him, and instead brought about her own defeat. He may have been the one taking the test, but she failed it.
The book has a powerful line of internal monologue for Lady Jessica when she enters the room after the trial and sees Paul alive that characterizes her and her relation to her son and her order: "My son lives. My son lives and is human. I knew he was...but...he lives. Now I can go on living." She knew this test was coming from the day he was born, imagine living with that knowledge as a mother.
I am consistently surprised with how much people who have never read the book(s) like the movie. There is soo much more going on in the book than in the movie that it boggles my mind.
She lived with that knowledge for 15 years.
I need to say that the gom jabbar scene is so impeccably acted and shot, that it's the best moment in the new Dune movie. Well worth supporting for it alone. So glad Villeneuve was at the helm of this!
I always felt the person who ended up being tested here was the Reverend Mother. The pain doesn't come from the box, it comes from her. Paul accepts all she has, then begins to turn it on her. His fear has become his weapon. She bails out immediately. She realizes he is him who can look into the forbidden place. I think this film depicts the scene only slightly better than the Lynch film. The director seems to understand the dynamic more completely. And,, better actors.
Yep. She realizes that she woke something up that was previously dormant. Oops!
He didn't have any fear, ever.
Therapist reacting to the entire Paul Atreides trilogy (if it gets made) would be a nightmare.
Leto 2 😎😇
I vote they stop at the end of book 1.
I think making anything after Children of Dune might be difficult for audiences to connect with (minus us hardcore fans)
The soundtrack when he looks her up in the eye....goosebumps.
Yes. I understand this scene went much longer before editing. Hopefully an extended version blue ray is in the works.
@@mako88sb wait a year, so that they think they will earn more money on it. Or they will release 6 months before the next movie is done, just after it's announced for maximum cash-return hype.
I think that’s the moment the Reverend Mother realized the Bene Gesserit had created something they could not control.
Jessica was sent to Duke Leto to be a concubine and a spy for the Bene Gesserit. Instead she found an honorable, strong and gentle man. Leto was probably the first person to ever show Jessica true love and affection. Because of their love she gave him a son. As a rule Bene Gesserit only give birth to daughters. She broke with the sisterhood for her love of Leto.
I think had Paul not passed the test , the Reverend Mother herself might not have made it out of the room either.
Bene Gesserit do not only give birth to daughters. Jessica was ordered to provide a daughter to be crossed with a Harkonnen male (specifically Feyd-Rautha) with the aim of producing a potential Kwisatz Haderach from that pairing. Since Jessica was herself the daughter of the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, this is creepy as shit.
@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t Agreed on the creepy part. I guess it’s my impression that they tend to more often than not only have daughters.
@@technopirate304 I mean, from a certain point of view, producing mostly daughters does have an amount of utility; but since the Bene Gesserit's 'big' breeding program is to produce a male, that implies that they have significant interest in the preservation of certain male characteristics (specifically ones that are carried on the y chromosome), and they can only do that by producing males with reasonable frequency.
Which seems to suggest that while they can control the sex of the child, their powers do not extend to controlling recombination.
@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t Agreed on the creepy part. If you walk it all back, the inbreeding in Dune is pretty creepy.
Oh, please. The Bene Gesserit breeders are often ordered to produce only daughters (ie. Shaddam has 5 daughters and no sons for a reason - the Bene Gesserit wanted to ensure they could control who inherited the Imperial throne), but how do you expect the breeding program to produce a Kwisatz Haderach if they always only have daughters? The Kwisatz Haderach is supposed to be male.
The Gom Jabbar scene is also probably the one moment in the first half of the book and by now the first movie, where we get to see what Paul is in this world. Its not simply a sign of defiance, through Paul's pain the reverend mother went from seeing a kid, to seeing the most terrifying being in existence.
"Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
Timothée Chalamet deserves an Oscar nomination for this scene alone. It was powerful and phenomenal ✨✨✨✨✨
It was the scene where I realised he's wasn't just another moody emo teen. Everything there was subtle.
@@TheChromeRonin This was the scene that made director Denis Villeneuve cry.
@@macys421297 awww. Made me tear up too. It was so well done.
When I started having a panic disorder or such. I realized that I need a strong quote to follow and orient myself. Although I'm an atheist now, growing as a Christian in childhood, I learnt that citing a quote that you strongly believe as a truth or supreme authority will help clear your mind and control it, like repelling your childhood nightmare. The script from Dune about fear has been one of the most effective and strong mantra for me to see how I create fear inside me and control it. It's amazing how the author managed to write these truthful lines in his books.
2 things that I LOVED about how this scene was framed, based on the text of the book is something that the Reverend Mother says, but they didn't put into the movie.
1. She is speaking to Paul about the difference between how an animal and a human would react to being caught in a trap. She specifically says "A human won't chew off his foot to escape, a human would wait, pretend to be dead, so they could have the chance to take out a threat to humanity, even if it costs them their life." Well, the whole point of the test, is that he is in a trap, caught...BY HER. And as Paul overcomes the pain, and looks up at her with that predatory expression, and she balks at it, I felt like it was a bit of an unconscious thing on her part. Her lizard brain recognizing that in this context, she is the person the human is waiting to kill. Paul isn't leaving, he's waiting, staring at her, growing more dangerous...and that threat, is aimed right at her. So I think it was a bit of unease on her part, realizing what her role in that situation is, and that it made her the ultimate victim.
2. The way they allow Jessica to actually speak the Litany Against Fear, but they quick cut between her and Paul, as he is obviously saying the same Litany in his head. They mirror their levels of stress, but as Jessica begins to gain her composure, bit by bit, so is Paul. By the end, as she says the last line of "Only I will remain." And she is completely at peace again...they cut to Paul, who is equally at peace. I thought it was a fantastic way to illustrate that his mother is the one who trained him, by having him echo her teachings internally. Just such fantastic scene structure and editing.
Such a good analysis, this is definitely a film about internal struggles just as much as grand political schemes. That moment of looking up as if to say "I have you" is very relatable to building up courage over your anxieties (from personal experience at least).
I found it fascinating when I first watched Dune as every single scene was leading up to the point where Paul Atraides died and Paul Maud Dib was born by overcoming his fear and accepting his fate.
The act of taking a life changes Paul. It's the death of his innocence.
6:10 I can testify to that. 10+ years of meditation and pain management for a chronic pain injury.
I scare people with how much pain I can take (Mostly walking to the hospital with a friend with a smile on my face and chatting with multiple broken bones in my right arm freaked them out, and made every single nurse and doctor ask what drug i was on)
That's incredible! May I ask you how you started meditating?
I hope you're okay and wish you the best✨
@@BirdiePine Hello!
Initially I started with this tutorial: th-cam.com/video/thYoV-MCVs0/w-d-xo.html (so actually only 9 years of meditation sorry for the mistake ^^')
At the beginning I followed the guided meditation a few times a week, then started doing it by myself. At some point I could just start listening to my heartbeat any time.
For the pain management, it's harder to explain. I'm not sure how I do it or if it's "transferable". Essentially I would focus on the area in pain and "dissipate" or amplify it.
I wish she would've analyzed and critiqued the litany against fear AS a mantra
That's what I expected. T_T
@@vw9502 Same. A lot of it was reaching. ITs a world 10k years into the future. She's got the emotion right, but for me, this is a simple case of "Paul was doing it because his mother called him, and the reverent mother is a authority figure." This test is well known in the dune universe, and she's analyzing it as she would in today's day and age, without taking the society he is in.
This test is to examine whether or not you can act as a -human.- and not an animal ready to know its own let off.
Further analysis: Dune is also about Paul’s acceptance of the loss of childhood fear finally through excessive amounts of loss, betrayal, pain from a desolate cruel world he’s not supposed to be on, he technically evolves mentally, physically, emotionally, and spoiler spiritually never as anyone had or could have predicted, except himself. Once he does, nothing can stop him, except himself….great series of novels!
Your cosplays are amazing. I really love it. Pls never stop.
Fantastic breakdown. I always took the "fear is the mind killer" as 'paralyzing inaction' in the face of chaos or violence; your take on it being something that holds us back is interesting and something to think about.
It's a broader context of the understanding you already have. In the face of chaos or violence, being held back by fear is more acutely and viscerally felt as paralyzing inaction. In less extreme circumstances, it is still in a sense paralyzing, preventing action in the direction of the fear.
Dig the mentat look!
Mentol :-)
The Litany against Fear is not Jessica's it's taught to all Bene Gesserit students, she taught it to Paul, she knew by deliberately having a son instead of a daughter she would cause some trouble, so she taught to survive when necessary, but both Mohiam and Paul were both used to being in control, I recommend looking at the same scene from the 1984 version as well.
(To quote Mohiam, "Can't go around maiming potential humans")
(Kull Wahad, she dared suggest the Duke's son was an animal!)
Never disclosed in the original books but the Reverend Mother is actually Paul’s grandmother. His mother never knew that her teacher in the Bene Gesserit was her birth mother.
This adds an additional layer of weirdness to the scene.
wait, what? So the Reverend Mother and Baron Harkonnen...
@@ryedralisk8620 Yep
@@ryedralisk8620 Yep, she's also part of the reason why he's morbidly obese and has some kind of affliction. She had a sample from him for the breeding program. He found out and r*ped her. In retaliation, she apparently cursed him with an affliction like an STD.
It was never "disclosed" because it's just bullshit that was made up by Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert. It's stated plainly in Dune itself who Jessica's mother was.
And it makes no sense for Mohiam to be Jessica's mother anyway. The BG don't look at their offspring as family. Family creates sentiment and sentiment gets in the way of the pragmatic approach the BG take to their long-term projects.
@@itsasquid No. The Baron is the way he is by his own choice. It's stated in Dune that he enjoys offending people, and of course his noble peers are offended by his physical traits.
This works for the Baron in another way. His peers at the Imperial court and in the Landsraad are so busy sticking their noses in the air and looking down on the Baron as being too weak to control his baser desires that they are easy to deceive because they're not paying attention to what they should be.
So no, the Baron did not rape Mohiam, and she did not curse him.
This analysis is incredible. I really want a full reaction of the movie. Your analysis of the Bene Gesserit will be incredible. Thanks for sharing!
I have a mantra.
"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
First of all, he’s not used to being in control or having authority. He’s an adolescent that and his mother has authority over him. Also, it’s not the first he’s hearing the voice.
At his position there would be very few people who are not outright subservient to him since he is the heir to one of the great houses. Maybe some of those who are already close to his father or to outside powers.
This scene was sooooo much better on film than in the book. The description given in the book is clinical, lacks a major bit of the actual feeling, which brought right to the fore with the film. The disconnect in the book comes from this juxtaposition between what is actually occuring, and Paul's thoughts on the situation. When reading, you do kinda get a sense for the situation, you can visualize the setting, but you don't FEEL the confusion, anguish, and ultimate resolve like you do actually hearing and seeing this played out. I cried while watching this. And joined Paul with that sort of mental "Fuck yeah!" as that look of resolve, anger, and defiance washes over his face. So damn powerful.
couldn't agree more
book is great. this scene (not as mangled here) does a great job of showing vs describing.
it's no shame to have less imagination and for those the visual is perfect.
Absolutely loved the scene and I think you did a great understanding of the emotional but also story background to the laid context to it. Amazing performance especially considering the amount of pressure on such a young actor as Timothe. Of course I absolutely love Charlotte Rampling and her performance here. She brings powerful image despite being almost entirely covered.
I loved your slight costume adaptation to the atmosphere of the film. Thanks for this amazing input. I loved this new Dune. It's closer to the book, which I'm starting to dive into and seems like - since they greenlit the second film - this might be the ultimate experience to understand the source material. Not perfect, but emotionally competent for sure.
Wow! I lover her Dune Jessica inspired outfit. From veil, earings, and weird lower lip stripe.
In the book Paul is saying that mantra while his hand is in the box. I do think it was very effective here with Jessica saying it, but I think I would have cut back and forth to both characters saying it.
He is saying it, you can seehim mouthing it while Jessica speaks is aloud
I loved the background explanations Herbert fleshed out with things like "the Voice" the Bene Gesserit, Mentats, Axioms, litanies...
An imagining of the logical extension of what humanity might get after thousands of years of dedication to certain mental disciplines approached in a way similar to religious conditioning. Understanding how far conditioning can go, where genetics fit in, a better understanding of the role nurturing would play in a person's development, as well as the line between nurturing and discipline... The intelligence humankind has used to develop quantum computing turned inward in the mind and body to an, in some cases, cult level. Seeding prophecies with the express intent that knowledge of them might be exploited if needed by those aware of and involved in the process, really interesting stuff.
Wow! A Georgia Dow video on Friday and then Monday and now Tuesday too! (It's not even my birthday!) Quote: "“No power so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.” - Edmund Burke. THAT is why bullies use fear as their primary tool. You never change a bully by feeding their ego...you give a bully reason to change by humbling them. And you do that with truth. The truth literally drags the "monsters" kicking and screaming into the the light...shows them for who they really are. Which is THEIR greatest fear.
In the books he does ask about what is in the box before he puts his hand in. He also manages to resist the voice a little on her first command, she has to repeat and strengthen it to make him come.
yes it is interesting how they changed his reaction to it. I wonder how that will continue to play out
The way she said "What's in the box?" reminded me of Brad Pitt in Se7en.
there is a great deal of science behind this novel.
yeah some, a lot of backward social commentary as well
Incidentally I find that when I'm in stressful and frustrating situations telling myself. "That's the way it is." Actually helps me to deal with my problems.
Whenever I feel, nervous, anxious, or fearful in my life, I repeat this litany to myself and it helps center myself and my thoughts.
Some great insight: I enjoyed your video. Blessings on your day.
The acting of the shift of the power dynamics between Paul and the Reverend Mother was so good. I really appreciate your analysis of this scene. I also learned the spinal column tells the muscles to react to pain. Twelve and a half minutes well spent!
You realize how great the acting for this film is. I truly believe the cast just always blows it out of the park
One of the most important scenes from the novel, become one of the best scenes in the film, thanks to the genius of Villeneuve. Your analysis, as always, is illuminating,
The acting is breathtaking in this sequence. Chalamet is awesome, we feel the pain in his face and eyes, then we see him slowly taking control of the pain. He succeeds in perfectly embodying, through his gaze, both suffering and power. Rebecca Ferguson is also sensational. She manages to make us feel her fear, the fear of losing her son, which becomes a pain in her lower stomach before she masters it as she recites the mantra. What a remarkable sequence!
If you’ve read the books, you’ll know that this scene is actually quite tragic. He is a strong character, but his fear eventually gets the better of him. He rejects the Golden Path, fearing the loss of his family, social isolation, and the corruption of his flesh.
His son does not.
My first regarding Paul's eventual compliance was not simply that Paul desires to follow his mother's wishes, but that he trusts his mother.
You can see how Frank Herbert derived these concepts from a deep understanding of Mahayana/Zen Buddhism. That which we perceive is only a product of our minds, or our fears. This is represented by the box, which contains nothing, but what we perceive to be there can be greater than the the nothing it contains, if we allow it. Facing your fear and letting it pass over you is fundamental to meditation, or satori/bodhicitta - the ‘awakened mind’
Yes that is a great point ! thank you for sharing a bit more on Zen Buddhism appreciated
Bene Gesserit were power hungry and intended to control the kwisatz haderach. First test him to see if he was worthy and then set the stage to future control.
That was the problem: the Bene Gesserit ALWAYS failed to control the Kwizats Haderach - with the first example (in Dune Encyclopedia) being Alexander the Great, and the Bene Gesserit at the time found impossible to control it.
With Paul? HA! They had no chance at all...
The bene gesserit are pretty interesting because they basically unite the powers of therapy, yoga, and intuition in a way that seems to be very dangerous in a way few people seem to understand. They seem to be dark empaths. They have complete understanding of other people's minds and are fully capable and willing to use other people as a means to an end. It shows how power without morality can be so damaging, and how a lot of therapeutic tools, in the wrong hands, can be so dangerous.
@8:04 It's not just that. At this moment, Paul's triumphant overcoming onto his own limbic instincts triggered a response on an unconscious and genetic level, the awakening of the fullest extent of the Bene Gesserit's ancestral female-line mental powers. The Reverend Mother realized in fear that Paul *might be indeed the Kwizatch Haderach* (something which was not fitting the Bene Gesserit's greater plan) and that had been letting Paul defiantly test his awakened power against her and here moreso, so soon, that he might have *DESTROYED her* ... and even worse.
thank you for that breakdown it was very well written and explained
And to think, actors and directors have to make these kinds of interpretations on their own on almost every project, in almost every scene.
Gom Jabbar, I have been waiting so long for this discussion in the general discourse… Since the, “Let’s make soap” scene copied This in Fight Club (1999)👋 🧼
However, in Fight Club they scoffed at the notion of re-directing one's thoughts away from the pain by focusing on something else, something positive.
They instead fully embraced the pain.
Idk if Palahniuk (author of Fight Club) truly got inspired by this scene from Dune.
@@subraxas the Litany says "face my fear" and "permit it to pass through me". Nothing about imagining something else. Meanwhile, Bene Gesserit endorse sober look at current situation: in that same scene the Reverend Mother reminds herself not to let her observations be clouded.
I love this. Didn't even make the connection.
"Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
"First you have to hit bottom."
It was pretty well done, good enough to present the scene as it appears in the book. With that head scarf, she looks like an Aiel warrior from Wheel of Time.
Late to this (and love this), but in the book when the Reverend Mother gives Paul the gom jabbar she brings the pain to a higher level than she ever had. She reflects on this wondering what came over her and why she wanted to destroy him and how she failed. I think this adds another layer to her "enough". It was both to Paul and his power and to herself.
People over 40: Pain is an old friend that tells you are still going forward, the box do not scare us
Fear is the opposite of control. It's the giving in of one's agency. Where others freeze, one should act, decisively. What one proposes, should have a follow through, as we should be confident in every project that we start. It is rejecting the urge to recoil, centering yourself, and then proceeding normally. If you're fearful,, odds are that you have no choice in if you'll perform, only in how well your performance will be. The funny bit is that this is one of the legitimate uses of what is generally a coping behavior, dissociation, best I could describe it would be unplugging part of your consciousness.
It's a useful skill to have when you've disabled an entire limb, but the vehicle you're on only works with all 4, it's a relatively straightforward matter of affixing your effed up hand to the handlebars and making do. It does hurt like a sonofabitch, and the best simile I can give is taking lorazepam for pain, it hurts but you just couldn't give a damn. It will sound sociopathic, but it's about the easiest way to perform at one's peak level, I've found just unplug your feelings and try not to actively think too much.
It's something I've been noticing more and more, the ability to just let things happen and let my subconscious do the driving, like when I'm riding a motorcycle. A quick aside, an idea I've had is that we spend our lives training our subconscious as we do things time and again, so I try and leverage what is usually overlooked by most. The idea is that the subconscious is great at doing things, but shit at learning how to do them, while the conscious mind is great at learning new things but kind of shit when it comes to getting things done. And like the 10,000 repetitions makes a master, if you do something often enough, you can get to the point to where your subconscious brain can be trusted to take care of things.
It's rather interesting when you first begin engaging it consciously, for me it feels like telling someone I trust to do something, and then they take the wheel of my body. My working theory is that the subconscious is great at doing one thing a very specific way, but it's great at remembering millions of specific ways, and all it really needs is a histogram of what constitutes the usual bell curve. With all the variety of conditions and variables covered, the subconscious mind can be trusted for the optimum solution 9 times out of 10, at least in my experience. And isn't that what we want, to be afraid and act anyways? The only way to get to there from here is practice, the requisite 10,000 times. Exposure therapy anyone? Same concept.
Problem is, some things can't be taught, and the tests tend to come before the lessons. This is the realm of bravery, but that's a whole 'nother subject(future talk maybe?). The plus side is that you end up with a great many stories and memories of close shaves, or just strange occurrences like when we traded 4 pounds of steaks for about 20 pounds of fireworks with some gringos on a San Felipe beach after the races. And I subsequently lit my leg on fire. Thankfully, the only things injured where my leg hair and pride, and now we know. And knowing is half the battle, GI JOE!
And here you where worried when I took the subconscious mastery tangent...
Really well said !
3:01 relevantly. The voice seems not usable to control people, but to suggest. And used where a person has uncertainty they can be persuaded, it might seem.-Ernie Moore Jr.
Enough; the tester was becoming tested, if it had gone any longer the table would have turned.
As always I LOVE your insights, and also how you dress according to the theme of whatever you're reacting too, such a nice touch.
LOL. Maybe she should have read the book, because there is a lot of misinformation in this video.
@@Shan_Dalamani sure but the video is still cool
@@fraelikkriil830 I'd be more impressed if she had demonstrated that she actually understands what she's talking about.
The Voice is not confined to making people feel fear. Jessica could easily have used Voice to persuade Leto to marry her, but she was too honorable to do that. Later in the novel, she uses Voice to distract the Harkonnens and get them to fight each other, giving her and Paul a chance to overpower them and escape.
Seriously, anyone who reviews the movie should also have read the book (FH's book, not the nuDune bullshit).
@@Shan_Dalamani I agree that more people should read the book; I absolutely love it to bits, but to say that someone should read the book before reviewing the movie is absurd.
@@fraelikkriil830 It's not absurd at all. It would save the presenter making stupid mistakes, and it would give the presenter a better handle on the topic.
Interesting analysis. This was a great movie. Very much looking forward to the sequel.
Speaking of movies, have you ever considered looking into the Star Wars franchise, specifically Jedi training. Though I'm no mental health expert, I sometimes shake my head at certain aspects of their training as being a form of emotional suppression that is harmful and in no small part leads to Jedi falling to the "Dark Side".
Oh, to ponder how Anakin would have turned out if Qui-Gon had survived and trained him.
Thinking about it, it occurs to me that the Jedi convention of emotional suppression could directly instill a fear of emotionality itself. The training, as you suggest, planting a seed of eventual fall to the Dark Side. Their own emotions contextualized as a threat, an enemy. A Jedi who fails to exact effective authoritarianism within themselves is then prone to internal rebellion and corruption.
Yet Another Brilliant Offering, Georgia. 🙏 I sent Four C.S subscriptions out to family members this week and recommended that you and Rene be the first stop they make......as it should be for anyone reading this. 🍎
Great analysis!! Such a deep scene!
Two years, we have to wait 2 f**#!@$*!@#$*$!@#$!@#$ years before we can watch the conclusion of this story. I hate it as much as I hated waiting for the next episode during 5 years of Breaking Bad.
You think it'll be the end?
Excellent analysis!
I have the litany against fear tattooed on my body, as someone who actually worries a lot.
…is it explicit that Paul is used to having everyone supplicate to him?
He’s a dukes son, but he has teachers, trainers, a mother who’s apprenticing him, friends he views as equals… idk if the conclusion can comfortably be reached that Paul is an affluenza case or something.
I think he has affluenza. It’s hard to have equal friendships with people you pay.
he's very familiar with not being in control. he's already experienced the voice many times from his mother. not opening very strong on this one.
The voice does not control you via fear, it simply controls you. whether you fear it is up to you, and what the person using it is like and might do to you while using it. His mother did NOT want him to do this, she had no choice. the forces at work in this story are bigger than you're focusing on.
The original video blew my mind and this version brought me right back to the first time I watched the original. Loving these
You should watch the series Lucifer. He has a therapist on the show. Part of the difficulty of being immortal is that it’s hard to be hurt, so it’s hard for him to learn. Liked your analysis of this.
Very well said about learning and getting hurt. I may react to Lucifer it’s on my list and fitting
@@GeorgiaDow the only pragmatic difficulty of reacting to Lucifer is that he learns slowly. It’s funny. Extremely funny. It is a thoughtful six seasons of personal growth but that growth happens over episodes of puzzlement.
Just a warning.
Lol she dressed the part.
theres a great, old interview with frank herbert on you tube. he explains the origin of voice and how most people use it without realising eg. parents talking to their children, teachers etc.
I had no idea how well put together just this one scene is.
I love how you try to mimic an look of characters from shows you make a comment on. Great channel!!!
thank you for appreciating
~ @6:00 mark... dealing with pain by imagining some other place? May I interest anyone in some soap?
TYLER: Stop. This is your pain, this is your burning hand. It’s right here!
JACK: I’m going to my cave. I’m going to my cave, I’m going to find my power animal.
TYLER: No! Don’t deal with it like those dead people do. Come on!
You say you can resist pain if you practice
It is also said that no one can resist torture indefinitely
Which is true?
@@ConsoleCombat thanks for the response
Loved the presentation
Perfect/accurate analysis as always.
If I am not mistaken, the Reverend Mother is also secretly the mother of Jessica & Paul is her grandson & while they did not know this, the Reverend Mother is very aware she is torturing her own grandson.
You are definitely mistaken. Mohiam is NOT Jessica's mother. That is bullshit invented by Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert in their inferior nuDune books. It states in Dune that Jessica's mother was a Bene Gesserit breeder named Tanidia Nerus, who was assigned to seduce Baron Harkonnen and conceive a daughter, which she did.
I just realized (my like 10th time watching this video) that you did the mentat lip tat with your lipstick, and I think that's mad dope. Also I love this video; deconstructing the psychology of movie scenes and literature is one of my favorite things. 😊
I like the detail that the reverend mother knows she’s also his grandmother. It adds the tension she personally holds
I do love the Mantra and it is a mantra I myself use. Whenever I face anything that is out of my control that I must do, I will either say the mantra aloud or in my head.
i love this so much, brings the movies in a whole new level!!! your channel will blow up, trust me :D
ha! shes dressed as a mentat! awesome! :D
The defiance comes from his mother. In the book he initially resists the voice. He also asks what is in the box before putting his hand in.
I’m not sure anyone mentioned this,but Paul does ask in the book before he puts his hand in the box what’s in it and her response is” Pain.”
great vid!!!
Think you miss some of the point of the scene, Paul is saying the Mantra to himself at the same time as his mother.
8:44, I think you missed one thing - Paul is no longer focused on the pain and his fear; those he has overcome and can dismiss. He can now focus on the Rev. Mother... (As an aside, the Bene Gesserit call this ordeal "The Test of Humanity".)
I LOVE it when you dress upto fit the Show/Movie that you're talking about!
I feel like pain and fear are described here as weaknesses, and I don't like it.
Pain and fear are essential for survival: fear shows us where is the danger, and pain saves us from the danger, whether we saw it coming or not.
These mecanisms are made to protect us, and that's not a weakness to me to want to be safe.
Sorry for the little lecturing, I just don't like the stereotype of "don't show fear, don't show pain".
It doesn't feel sane to me.
Thanks again for these videos, it's really instructive.
See you soon :)
Yes I agree pain and fear are both adaptive ! thank you for saying that and sharing it
Fear and pain can be useful, but in this case we’re talking about limiting it when it become paralysing
And the other thing that astonishes me is canonically Paul is 15 when it starts
Outstanding movie. I just recently found you channel by following the Arcane rabbit hole. Really enjoy your insights.
The litany against fear is the only thing that allowed me to go through my mother's funeral and my grandmother's funeral.
I interpret some of Paul's body language and reactions differently. His sad expression and head shake after she says "Your mother bade you obey me" looks to me like a reluctant acceptance that this is beyond his control, as if he's saying "I can't believe this is happening". Then, the scoff after she tell him "pain" is in the box looks to me like another "I can't believe this", because in a world where humans can control each other with their voices and other fantastic things, he can assume he's about to experience some serious pain.
So. I actually had a very uncomfortable question that this video is perfect for bringing up.
Is something wrong with me for not being able to feel fear properly?
Edit: I know nobody cares but my personal mantra is "I am the stone that weathers the storm, whether the storm be raging or weak, I am the stone that remains."
Your personal mantra is pretty similar to the full version of the Bene Gesserit litany which goes: "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
@@RichardStrong86 Funny you mention that because it actually had a strong influence on me as a child, and probably leaked into my mantra as well. My parents weren't really very reliable, even when I was little, so self reliance and individuality have been huge tenets of my personality as an adult.
Don't sweat it too much. I don't feel fear "normally" either. I am only afraid of 3 things. Heights, spiders, and the xenomorph. I have had a gun pulled on me. I have had someone I did not know put a knife to my throat. Neither one of those things caused me to be afraid. Oddly, they made me annoyed and angry. Fear IS the mind killer.
My personal mantra is "God never allows anything to happen to you that you cannot handle." It gives me strength in that no matter the situation, I can handle it. I can get through it. The rest is up to me to DO it. It does not mean that I will always succeed, but that I can, if I make the correct choices. If I take the correct actions.
@@chuckhoyle1211 You process fear similar to me then. Things that SHOULD scare me just piss me off instead. My only real fears are things I can't fight, like enclosed places or as you said, heights. Oddly enough I kind of want to fight a xenomorph. I'm not a badass. Just a dumbass.
@@hernehaugen6878 There's lots of different schools of thought on how to handle fear and emotions in general. Frank Herbert borrowed from a lot of different things, many of them religions and existing philosophy. You may see a lot of things in Stoicism that seem familiar to you.
2:42 given that you just said 2:15 he has directives with superior priorities than what he thinks, questioning what's in the box presupposes if he learns what's in the box there were options. By being royalty, and through family he has obligations binding him to unquestioning loyalty. Your superiors are there to guide and develop and look-out for your well-being and growth as a person to be a benefit to the community of family or neighborhood or hamlet or village or town or city or more broadly. He disrespects his mother at this point to question putting his hand in the box-Ernie Moore Jr.
Plus, wouldn't your experience and study say that being told a thing ahead-of-time can create hesitancy by the person. When you have to socially comply, the doubts may be present but not overwhelming that one disturbs the flow of Command. Perhaps some-such some might say.-Ernie Moore Jr.
Please note your correctness of wanting to know. Yet audibly asking has been removed at the moment of command. However, when he cannot be questioned as to his loyalty-because he followed the command without question [he honors his respect for his Mother's significance]...he does ask. He was always going to put it in. It is just a box. But the test is the susceptibility of a weak mind and the tendency of a person to bring-about, their own destruction unnecessarily, with anticipation Presumption and imaginings of things going bad and treating that as real to-where we design or reality and we mess-ourselves-over.. Can he be more than a scared rabbit -panicky, Henny Penny.-Ernie Moore Jr
A leader that can be led by appeal is a figurehead puppet-of-whims and's primary leadership is led-by-the-nose.-Ernie Moore Jr.
He does actually asks what's in the box. Its just not played here.
😂🤣 love the scarf
His mother and every benegeseret goes through this test. It’s not particular to just him.
I liked seeing Jessica's demeanor be different with the Rev Mother, becoming more like a child with her.