you must go through the steps , the world abbot , kenneth chung age 84 is still on world tour 60 yrs , see san josa si gung ben der , or san fransico si fu , francis der .... thx , fcbk,.wing chun fresno calif (kenneth chung linage 1991)....see the current mma, JJ, awards posted ..... thx to ken , ben , chue ....
"It's commendable that he avoids relying solely on sticking hands, unlike most people who do. He prefers a touch-and-go approach, adjusting his moves based on his opponents' reactions without following a set pattern. Sticking hands are merely a foundational aspect of this style of hand play, primarily useful in dojo training rather than MMA contexts. Those with tactical thinking and actual combat experience can integrate Wing Chun techniques effectively, whereas those solely trained in dojo settings with Wing Chun often struggle against skilled fighters. The effectiveness of Wing Chun, like any martial art, depends on how it's trained and whom it's trained against. While Wing Chun offers practical fighting concepts akin to those found in many Kung Fu styles and can be learned relatively quickly, mastering it for application against trained fighters requires substantial time and dedication. Facing a seasoned Taekwondo expert, for instance, demands as much training in combat as they have undergone themselves; adapting to their swift kicks might take years of practice. Simply practicing classical Wing Chun techniques isn't sufficient; one must also train extensively against diverse martial arts styles to succeed in competitive MMA or ring fighting. Attempting to combat Thai boxers, wrestlers, or judo practitioners without adequate preparation is futile. There are no secret techniques that substitute for rigorous training. Even within Wing Chun, proficient practitioners possess a vast mental repertoire of techniques ingrained in muscle memory through exhaustive practice. In real combat scenarios, particularly between highly skilled martial artists, injuries or worse can occur, underscoring the risks involved without regulated rules as in ring fighting. It's often said that 'when two tigers fight, one or both will be injured,' highlighting the intensity and danger inherent in such confrontations. The reality of fighting, especially outside regulated environments, can be deadly; classical martial arts training offers limited practicality against multiple attackers, armed opponents, or professional assassins. As forms of art and exercise, however, all martial arts hold value depending on personal preferences and objectives."
Jack of all trades master of none. Manson Gibson for instance was a spin kick specialist, 100 wins, 80 KOs, 40 head kicks, from mastering the same technique 'a thousand times'. This basic principle or philosophy of 'kung gu' is the difference with the premise of your argument which although seems logical and practical can contradict basic tenets of wing chun and kung fu that by definition seeks mastery at ONE THING. I would also posit that wing chun is a type of kung fu, that no martial art is a perfectly complete or invulnerable system but each has strengths and weaknesses, all lack in one area or another. Each branch of kung fu falling under Shaolin and branches of Chinese theory and philosophy also applies this theory and emphasises various aspects like department faculties or sub-disciplines. Either a person chooses to be a specialist OR a generalist. You mention "competitive MMA or ring fighting" and that certainly has value but it's also limited to a sample population of fighting styles and fighting rules that "real combat scenarios" do not have and are totally unpredictable if the opponent is unknown to you. From a very distant culture or someone who is totally original and creative in their fighting style. For a kung fu person to take the MMA route is only possible AFTER fully mastering one art first, or maybe their education was incomplete with had gaps and flaws to begin with (many share this problem after the Cultural Revolution). > The reality of fighting, especially outside regulated environments, can be deadly; classical martial arts training offers limited practicality against multiple attackers, armed opponents, or professional assassins. This is true. The history of kung fu is quite vast though, ranging from Shuai Jiao wrestling as a past time of aristocratic Chinese clans, an ceremonial religious ritual (evident in Sumo), or developed into a 'martial art' with weapons training for protecting imperial envoys and rich people travelling along the Silk Road. Kung fu in the last couple of centuries is classed as 空手 hung sau "empty hand" kung fu, implying that it is inferior to weapons training and that martial arts academies were for a long time, for maybe some millennia solely about training various ancient warfare weapons. This is why 'forms' appear ridiculous or impractical because in the past the person trained in WEAPONS FIRST such as shaking 10 foot poles to condition arms, core, hips, and train internal "qi" in preparation for a lighter 6 foot spear in the battlefield. Thus, much of the strange hand movements in kung fu are in fact designed for weapons training, for survival of the family/clan, and for protecting the village and kingdom from invaders. But in the last hundred years kung fu in South China where it was the richest place in the world for a while became a kind of gentleman's duelling method a means to sort out civil disputes. Much like French people practicing fencing swordsmanship is quite a wimpy useless needle against a battle axe, cannons, and rifles. That is essentially what kung fu is in practical terms. The modern world now having a fairly functional legal system and police nobody really needs to fend off bandits, carrying weapons at home, bringing weapons to protect their loved ones travelling by horse or carriage on long journeys, etc. Had modernism not happened almost for certain "kung fu" would be a private family secret and not known to the Western world. It doesn't mean that wing chun or kung fu doesn't work but these systems were definitely designed to work in a 'kung fu only world' and the application in mind a lot of the time was in preparing the local militia for revolution against the Qing dynasty. Training with open hands was a MULTI-PURPOSE training method that allows immediate skill transferral to butterfly swords in wing chun's case or spears in Xingyi Quan. Same applies for Karate and other similar martial arts. The movements WITHIN the forms are rooted in this old world mentality, ready for war. Another premise that is different to your understanding is that Chinese kung fu and most Asian martial arts are NOT barbaric blood sports or for gaining personal glory. The fist-in-hand gong sau 拱手 bowing gesture signifies peace, respect, and salutations. The stereotypical qi gong putting hands high and low while breathing is ritual prayer or worship blessing and honouring Heaven above and Earth below. Nobody who does kung fu who understands what kung fu really is for should never be aiming to inflict injury on others to hurt or maim people for life unless there is truly no other option. The lack of multi-opponent training is a really good point but also this scenario is a LOW probability in a modern civilised society that uses wisdom, communication, application of the law, to solve problems. Also, even if multiple attackers was a regular occurrence the Chinese philosophy of war is always to have the upper hand and to never ever be in a position of vulnerability. All wars are fought by "surrounding" the opponent, and never being surrounded. You will find this in Art of War, Musashi, and playing strategy games such as 'Go'. Again, it begs the question WHY does someone feel the need to train in multi-opponent scenarios if not for ego, vain glory, bravado, etc, and if these truly are regular occurrences then the bigger question is why is the society lawless and dysfunctional, why is that person still living there, and what are the police and army doing about it? Which are governance and military issues NOT civil issues to be solved with kung fu, let alone empty hand kung fu. Peace
Fantastic. Doe's this Sifu still teach? Can he be contacted?
you must go through the steps , the world abbot , kenneth chung age 84 is still on world tour 60 yrs , see san josa si gung ben der , or san fransico si fu , francis der .... thx , fcbk,.wing chun fresno calif (kenneth chung linage 1991)....see the current mma, JJ, awards posted ..... thx to ken , ben , chue ....
Yes, San Jose Wing Chun
"It's commendable that he avoids relying solely on sticking hands, unlike most people who do. He prefers a touch-and-go approach, adjusting his moves based on his opponents' reactions without following a set pattern. Sticking hands are merely a foundational aspect of this style of hand play, primarily useful in dojo training rather than MMA contexts. Those with tactical thinking and actual combat experience can integrate Wing Chun techniques effectively, whereas those solely trained in dojo settings with Wing Chun often struggle against skilled fighters.
The effectiveness of Wing Chun, like any martial art, depends on how it's trained and whom it's trained against. While Wing Chun offers practical fighting concepts akin to those found in many Kung Fu styles and can be learned relatively quickly, mastering it for application against trained fighters requires substantial time and dedication. Facing a seasoned Taekwondo expert, for instance, demands as much training in combat as they have undergone themselves; adapting to their swift kicks might take years of practice.
Simply practicing classical Wing Chun techniques isn't sufficient; one must also train extensively against diverse martial arts styles to succeed in competitive MMA or ring fighting. Attempting to combat Thai boxers, wrestlers, or judo practitioners without adequate preparation is futile. There are no secret techniques that substitute for rigorous training. Even within Wing Chun, proficient practitioners possess a vast mental repertoire of techniques ingrained in muscle memory through exhaustive practice.
In real combat scenarios, particularly between highly skilled martial artists, injuries or worse can occur, underscoring the risks involved without regulated rules as in ring fighting. It's often said that 'when two tigers fight, one or both will be injured,' highlighting the intensity and danger inherent in such confrontations. The reality of fighting, especially outside regulated environments, can be deadly; classical martial arts training offers limited practicality against multiple attackers, armed opponents, or professional assassins.
As forms of art and exercise, however, all martial arts hold value depending on personal preferences and objectives."
Jack of all trades master of none. Manson Gibson for instance was a spin kick specialist, 100 wins, 80 KOs, 40 head kicks, from mastering the same technique 'a thousand times'. This basic principle or philosophy of 'kung gu' is the difference with the premise of your argument which although seems logical and practical can contradict basic tenets of wing chun and kung fu that by definition seeks mastery at ONE THING.
I would also posit that wing chun is a type of kung fu, that no martial art is a perfectly complete or invulnerable system but each has strengths and weaknesses, all lack in one area or another. Each branch of kung fu falling under Shaolin and branches of Chinese theory and philosophy also applies this theory and emphasises various aspects like department faculties or sub-disciplines. Either a person chooses to be a specialist OR a generalist.
You mention "competitive MMA or ring fighting" and that certainly has value but it's also limited to a sample population of fighting styles and fighting rules that "real combat scenarios" do not have and are totally unpredictable if the opponent is unknown to you. From a very distant culture or someone who is totally original and creative in their fighting style. For a kung fu person to take the MMA route is only possible AFTER fully mastering one art first, or maybe their education was incomplete with had gaps and flaws to begin with (many share this problem after the Cultural Revolution).
> The reality of fighting, especially outside regulated environments, can be deadly; classical martial arts training offers limited practicality against multiple attackers, armed opponents, or professional assassins.
This is true. The history of kung fu is quite vast though, ranging from Shuai Jiao wrestling as a past time of aristocratic Chinese clans, an ceremonial religious ritual (evident in Sumo), or developed into a 'martial art' with weapons training for protecting imperial envoys and rich people travelling along the Silk Road.
Kung fu in the last couple of centuries is classed as 空手 hung sau "empty hand" kung fu, implying that it is inferior to weapons training and that martial arts academies were for a long time, for maybe some millennia solely about training various ancient warfare weapons. This is why 'forms' appear ridiculous or impractical because in the past the person trained in WEAPONS FIRST such as shaking 10 foot poles to condition arms, core, hips, and train internal "qi" in preparation for a lighter 6 foot spear in the battlefield.
Thus, much of the strange hand movements in kung fu are in fact designed for weapons training, for survival of the family/clan, and for protecting the village and kingdom from invaders. But in the last hundred years kung fu in South China where it was the richest place in the world for a while became a kind of gentleman's duelling method a means to sort out civil disputes. Much like French people practicing fencing swordsmanship is quite a wimpy useless needle against a battle axe, cannons, and rifles. That is essentially what kung fu is in practical terms. The modern world now having a fairly functional legal system and police nobody really needs to fend off bandits, carrying weapons at home, bringing weapons to protect their loved ones travelling by horse or carriage on long journeys, etc. Had modernism not happened almost for certain "kung fu" would be a private family secret and not known to the Western world.
It doesn't mean that wing chun or kung fu doesn't work but these systems were definitely designed to work in a 'kung fu only world' and the application in mind a lot of the time was in preparing the local militia for revolution against the Qing dynasty. Training with open hands was a MULTI-PURPOSE training method that allows immediate skill transferral to butterfly swords in wing chun's case or spears in Xingyi Quan. Same applies for Karate and other similar martial arts. The movements WITHIN the forms are rooted in this old world mentality, ready for war.
Another premise that is different to your understanding is that Chinese kung fu and most Asian martial arts are NOT barbaric blood sports or for gaining personal glory. The fist-in-hand gong sau 拱手 bowing gesture signifies peace, respect, and salutations. The stereotypical qi gong putting hands high and low while breathing is ritual prayer or worship blessing and honouring Heaven above and Earth below. Nobody who does kung fu who understands what kung fu really is for should never be aiming to inflict injury on others to hurt or maim people for life unless there is truly no other option.
The lack of multi-opponent training is a really good point but also this scenario is a LOW probability in a modern civilised society that uses wisdom, communication, application of the law, to solve problems. Also, even if multiple attackers was a regular occurrence the Chinese philosophy of war is always to have the upper hand and to never ever be in a position of vulnerability. All wars are fought by "surrounding" the opponent, and never being surrounded. You will find this in Art of War, Musashi, and playing strategy games such as 'Go'.
Again, it begs the question WHY does someone feel the need to train in multi-opponent scenarios if not for ego, vain glory, bravado, etc, and if these truly are regular occurrences then the bigger question is why is the society lawless and dysfunctional, why is that person still living there, and what are the police and army doing about it? Which are governance and military issues NOT civil issues to be solved with kung fu, let alone empty hand kung fu.
Peace