I remember back yrs ago one of your engines an your name was mentioned. By one of the commentators of a nascar race. You Eng was in second place an the driver had run the heck out of the Eng. I think around 200 mile an hour. A the speaker gave the slater Eng a great name. He said that Eng stood up to the slater name as an Eng builder. Worth looking into. He will be sticking around in the nascar circuit.
Brian, I absolutely love your passion, no joke. Your Military assertiveness is one of your most impressive traits, to me. I'm proud you are my Brother in Arms. I am not trying to blow sunshine but you are one of my favorite Tech Teachers on here. Thank you. Keep the lessons coming, because I love learning more about engines and I hope I get to a point to use your teaching (on a smaller scale) in my builds.
You 💯 percent need to write a engine building book (Manual). I've figured out all my issues from trial and error. My problem is my bank account. Mr. Salter don't let internet Rambo's get to you. Your advice has saved a lot of time and money 💰. Please keep the videos coming. ❤. God Bless Everyone. Prayers for the hurricane 🌀 🙏 Victims and Trust in our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus ❤.
I’m not putting Salter down at all, it takes along time to write a book! If you want to know what wins races, get yourself a Reher Morrison book! It’s in almost all engine shops that are worth a shit! Whether you see it or not!
Another excellent instructional episode, yep , the wide seats are for made for longevity for the average guy or gal that wants to bolt on a head for a hundred thousand miles . But the performance engine is going to get pulled down more often
I built an engine for my street/strip car and had the oil consumption problem you had with Turing groove issue. I had hapless top rings which made the diagnosis difficult. I ran it for 3 years, never had time to tear it down. It ran good, but used oil, and all my customers needed to come first, but it drove me nuts. Took it apart, there it was. I feel your pain.
Good stuff, keep it going! My kid did up a pair of the China dart copy heads. Opened it up for 2.08 valves, ported, and unshrouded the chamber to a 4.155 bore size... sent it to Weingartner for flow testing and it did 239cfm at .400 and 298 at .600. Flow started dropping off at .650. The net lift on his cam is .666. We could have made some changes to get bigger numbers past .600 but I would be willing to bet it would have cost mid lift flow. We kept it as is. The engine I'd making some serious power, wish we would have dyno'd it! I think there's lots that happens with port velocity that people don't realize and some engines with higher high lift flow numbers can often make less power.
0.007" press fit in aluminum is good to go Brian! I'm a little late getting to these videos, but I can almost see someone having a problem with that figure. I have to explain this all the time with the engines I build. Aluminum expands quite a bit at engine operating temperature. I've set lash to zero on solid roller cams in aluminum blocks with aluminum heads. I've run the engine to operating temperature and found lash has grown to 0.012" to 0.014" depending on the aluminum used. OEM aluminum usually grows a little more. So heating the head to 200° and freezing the valve seat would allow a 0.007" press fit no problem. This would allow for 0.001" interference fit at operating temp and keep the seat from dropping out. Good video Brian. You kept the 15° air turn angle all hushed up for 30 minutes. Ive gotta finish the video later.
Thank you Brian Yes, moving air around a radius is an acceleration of its mass. Going straight for too long undoes the acceleration , get it turning, keep it turning
Awesome information. Patiently awaiting more info. I run a 2 barrel restricted engine rules package dirt car, and any advantage is useful. That margin idea is something! Very slick idea on checking the laminar flow of the valve with the solvent tank. Never gave that a consideration. Excellent info. Oh, and I didn't know the craft shop had the ability to do the head work you mentioned. Missed out on an opportunity. (U.S. Army '83-'92)
Way I understood it / was explained to me, lower angle valve face / seat angles have a larger valve curtain, versus, 45, at a given lift, but, especially at lower lifts, that made sense, for its advantage on lower lift applications, and would raise the average flow overall. Regarding valve margins, margins also seem to have a influence on reversion. Think another thing people shoot themselves in the foot, is going for the biggest valve, not only for increased shrouding, but for resulting larger throats or too large a throat percentage versus lift, that kills port energy.
Well as a 22 year old broke cylinder head machinist & head porter who doesn’t own a flow bench, I guess I’ll be looking for the margin answer in the parts washer haha. I’ve never thought of testing it that way before. I’ve always put some dirty varsol in the gasket side opening of the port and blow compressed air through the port with the valve installed, at whatever lift I want. Because the varsol is dirty from the parts washer I can see the “wet flow” around the valve, I can see where the fuel will atomize and where it’ll fall out of suspension. Of course the pattern changes depending on where I stick the air nozzle at the opening of the port but hell, it’s a damn good test for free. I’d love to have a $20,000 flow bench but this among other things is what I’ve got for now haha. I’ve used this way to develop some of my own custom seat cutters, chamber shapes, back angles & valve shapes and even port textures in particular areas. Ive seen some awesome results from it on customers engines too, I’ll be testing my own personal motor soon with everything I’ve learned over the past 4 years combined and I’m excited to see how it turns out and publish the information on how I did it. Ive never seen anyone test things like this in a similar way though and I wanna say thank you because now you got me thinking about the margin haha. I’m gonna figure out that damn angle, I got a lathe, just you wait n see.
Well air doesn't like to turn at any angle greater than 15°. If you're starting with a 45° seat then a 60° and 75° before the 90° margin. All depends on how you wanna get it out, but 15° is the sharpest that air will turn.
@@V8Lenny let me get a protractor and some graph paper....gotta find a pencil too. Jk Sure you can. If there's room and the contact starts up the 45 high enough.
The low lift flow suffers on a steeper seat angle due to less area being exposed. This can be calculated using some trig however since there is less area exposed (less flow) the discharge coefficient is used for efficiency of the valve.
Excellent information! More important meaningful statements made and reiterated for reference! That helps even more. The point made about lifting a valve past a flow number is a source of contention that I’ve lived in one too many times. So much so that I avoid the conversation. I must ask if this rule still applies when port flow falls completely off at a certain lift? I also appreciate the instruction on valve margin angle scrutiny. It’s a detail that I have never tested but will be going forward. I’ve known from very early experiences that margin width affects airflow. My tests have also shown that back cut angles do not have to be a mile wide that are all the way to the seating surface angle. I’ve always tested back cut angles by starting out with the steepest back cut angle. Making that back cut angle width only wide enough to test with and hopefully there’s room to change. If not I sometimes use all 8 intake valves lessening the back cut angle until I find the angle that flows best. Can’t wait to see the direction headed with valve guide clearance. I see the beryllium copper or moldstar 90 seats. I know what not to do with those seats. What I’ve done to correct the issue has unnerved people in the past. Thank you for your time and efforts!
Anyone that thinks going to 0.500 lift on a head that flows best at 0.500 lift will make more power than going higher has no idea that being at 0.500 twice instead of once is mo better!
@7:23 to answer your question, you're mainly porting for the valves, and to a certain extent the piston crown(this becomes more crucial with Hemis). The port and chamber should complement the valve job and bowl's intended flow characteristics. Fords for instance with the port biased towards the center of the cylinder aren't swirl heavy heads, Chevy with their heads biased towards the cylinder wall have more built in swirl. Swirl can help and hurt you, too much swirl means you're taking energy out of the flow, too little swirl and you won't have good fuel mixing.
Swirl , if done right never hurts. I flowed some 2019 Nascar heads....and the swirl is ASTONISHING. Put in a diesel injector , 15 compression and start dieseling!!
@@Baard2000 Swirl if done right is fantastic, in my retarded opinion, you want little swirl at very low lifts, then you want it to ramp up progressively to around 2500rpm max at full lift. Any more than that, and the swirl becomes so strong that it starts taking kinetic energy out of the flow, and can cause reversion. Ideally you want tumble and swirl at a specific ratio(which is a function of your swirl curve) and you'll get the most homogenous and quick combustion possible.
Thanks for the great videos. All of the "real" professionals like you.I listen to And you know themTalk about the same exact mods and results. The one thing they never talked about is mods to the margin. I always wondered about that. I will do some experimenting on my homemade flow bench. THANKS!
The size of the valve is for valve area, but it also has an effect on the flow, with larger valves creating bigger low pressure pockets under the valve as the air flows around the edge of the valve and wraps around in a vortex.
What a great video. I've heard porting to the valve size from a private individual with a background similar to yours. Are you going to do a video that touches on what guides the choice in valve size? Have fun at PRI. Be safe
I know that this is a stupid question, but do you make any kind of FE heads? Most of the improvements are in the manifolds, but heads and intakes are so important in making the FE continue to be the legend it is. The Windsor is being jammed down our throats. I have been an FE fanatic since I was a child. They just can’t go away. Please don’t let them die.
He is talking about the valve seat being pressed in the head. The seat needs to be .007 larger than the hole so the seat does not fall out of the head.
@@____MC____ great question and I hate to tell you this but every time you do something to that guy you have to read tru-up the valve seat. That is the only way You have to cut new valve seat angles so that everything is lined up
Valve guide eccentricity pisses me off to no ends in certain circumstances. It seems very intentional in some cases. There are heads out there that won’t tolerate a larger valve to accommodate the necessary corrections all derived from a set of guides that had run out built into them. I’d see it differently if the situation dictated or if it was an issue that I couldn’t solve myself. I just see it too often. I roll test new guides in some of my ammo reloading tooling. Nothing exotic or hard to obtain. We all know right where to go to get nice straight valve guides. It all appears to be intentional and it should not be this way.
@@hughobrien4139 unfortunately you are correct one of the first things you should do once you install the guide is run a reamer through it so that it's true and start from there
@SalterRacingEngines paying someone to redo the seats is probably worth more than the heads themselves. Theyre just a old set of cheap promaxx's i was trying to fix with garage tools. I hate to throw them in the trash after all the hrs put into them.
@29 min, VERY feww shops,5%? have the tools or the ability to install seats with that much press fit. AND if you drag metal your valve job will never be stable- soooooo how do u install a 1.750? seat with .007 press fit AND NOT drag metal?AND lets keep in mide- taking a 356 casting over 300 f continues the aging process-
Good info, Brian. A lot of people don't realize how critical seat profiles really are. I will pay more attention to the margin from now on with my valves. Are you using just a regular 28" depression when you test this?
I remember back yrs ago one of your engines an your name was mentioned. By one of the commentators of a nascar race. You Eng was in second place an the driver had run the heck out of the Eng. I think around 200 mile an hour. A the speaker gave the slater Eng a great name. He said that Eng stood up to the slater name as an Eng builder. Worth looking into. He will be sticking around in the nascar circuit.
Brian, I absolutely love your passion, no joke. Your Military assertiveness is one of your most impressive traits, to me. I'm proud you are my Brother in Arms. I am not trying to blow sunshine but you are one of my favorite Tech Teachers on here. Thank you. Keep the lessons coming, because I love learning more about engines and I hope I get to a point to use your teaching (on a smaller scale) in my builds.
You 💯 percent need to write a engine building book (Manual). I've figured out all my issues from trial and error. My problem is my bank account. Mr. Salter don't let internet Rambo's get to you. Your advice has saved a lot of time and money 💰. Please keep the videos coming. ❤. God Bless Everyone. Prayers for the hurricane 🌀 🙏 Victims and Trust in our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus ❤.
Brian and David Vizard tell similar procedures. DV has numerous books out.
I’m not putting Salter down at all, it takes along time to write a book! If you want to know what wins races, get yourself a Reher Morrison book! It’s in almost all engine shops that are worth a shit! Whether you see it or not!
@@brianholcomb6499 I like Reher Morrison
Thanks Brian for a very interesting video. It fits perfect for the morning Coffee here in Sweden 🇸🇪
Another excellent instructional episode, yep , the wide seats are for made for longevity for the average guy or gal that wants to bolt on a head for a hundred thousand miles . But the performance engine is going to get pulled down more often
I built an engine for my street/strip car and had the oil consumption problem you had with Turing groove issue. I had hapless top rings which made the diagnosis difficult. I ran it for 3 years, never had time to tear it down. It ran good, but used oil, and all my customers needed to come first, but it drove me nuts. Took it apart, there it was. I feel your pain.
Good stuff, keep it going! My kid did up a pair of the China dart copy heads. Opened it up for 2.08 valves, ported, and unshrouded the chamber to a 4.155 bore size... sent it to Weingartner for flow testing and it did 239cfm at .400 and 298 at .600. Flow started dropping off at .650. The net lift on his cam is .666. We could have made some changes to get bigger numbers past .600 but I would be willing to bet it would have cost mid lift flow. We kept it as is. The engine I'd making some serious power, wish we would have dyno'd it! I think there's lots that happens with port velocity that people don't realize and some engines with higher high lift flow numbers can often make less power.
0.007" press fit in aluminum is good to go Brian! I'm a little late getting to these videos, but I can almost see someone having a problem with that figure. I have to explain this all the time with the engines I build.
Aluminum expands quite a bit at engine operating temperature. I've set lash to zero on solid roller cams in aluminum blocks with aluminum heads. I've run the engine to operating temperature and found lash has grown to 0.012" to 0.014" depending on the aluminum used. OEM aluminum usually grows a little more.
So heating the head to 200° and freezing the valve seat would allow a 0.007" press fit no problem. This would allow for 0.001" interference fit at operating temp and keep the seat from dropping out.
Good video Brian. You kept the 15° air turn angle all hushed up for 30 minutes. Ive gotta finish the video later.
I keep all notifications on for your videos! Great stuff to watch and listen to while in the shop.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge!
Thank you Brian
Yes, moving air around a radius is an acceleration of its mass. Going straight for too long undoes the acceleration , get it turning, keep it turning
Awesome information. Patiently awaiting more info. I run a 2 barrel restricted engine rules package dirt car, and any advantage is useful. That margin idea is something!
Very slick idea on checking the laminar flow of the valve with the solvent tank. Never gave that a consideration. Excellent info. Oh, and I didn't know the craft shop had the ability to do the head work you mentioned. Missed out on an opportunity. (U.S. Army '83-'92)
@@jeffwooton7138 oh I didn't do it there I did it out of my little single wide trailer I lived in LOL
Those were the days
Great class.
Way I understood it / was explained to me, lower angle valve face / seat angles have a larger valve curtain, versus, 45, at a given lift, but, especially at lower lifts, that made sense, for its advantage on lower lift applications, and would raise the average flow overall.
Regarding valve margins, margins also seem to have a influence on reversion.
Think another thing people shoot themselves in the foot, is going for the biggest valve, not only for increased shrouding, but for resulting larger throats or too large a throat percentage versus lift, that kills port energy.
The convention center buildings in FL are huge. To me, they did a good job with the shuttles and hotels for the show.
Once again watching one of your videos I have learned much!
Thanks! 👍👍
Hey Brian, because you will decrease the velocity once you take an air column from a straight path. Good video! This is why I do seamless transitions
Well as a 22 year old broke cylinder head machinist & head porter who doesn’t own a flow bench, I guess I’ll be looking for the margin answer in the parts washer haha. I’ve never thought of testing it that way before. I’ve always put some dirty varsol in the gasket side opening of the port and blow compressed air through the port with the valve installed, at whatever lift I want. Because the varsol is dirty from the parts washer I can see the “wet flow” around the valve, I can see where the fuel will atomize and where it’ll fall out of suspension. Of course the pattern changes depending on where I stick the air nozzle at the opening of the port but hell, it’s a damn good test for free. I’d love to have a $20,000 flow bench but this among other things is what I’ve got for now haha. I’ve used this way to develop some of my own custom seat cutters, chamber shapes, back angles & valve shapes and even port textures in particular areas. Ive seen some awesome results from it on customers engines too, I’ll be testing my own personal motor soon with everything I’ve learned over the past 4 years combined and I’m excited to see how it turns out and publish the information on how I did it. Ive never seen anyone test things like this in a similar way though and I wanna say thank you because now you got me thinking about the margin haha. I’m gonna figure out that damn angle, I got a lathe, just you wait n see.
You can build your own flow bench much cheaper
@ I’ve thought about that actually, might be a project for me next year.
Well air doesn't like to turn at any angle greater than 15°. If you're starting with a 45° seat then a 60° and 75° before the 90° margin. All depends on how you wanna get it out, but 15° is the sharpest that air will turn.
@@arturozarate1752 I dont think you can put any angles between seat and margin.
@@V8Lenny let me get a protractor and some graph paper....gotta find a pencil too. Jk
Sure you can. If there's room and the contact starts up the 45 high enough.
Hi Brian. Thanks for making my head hurt ( good thing ) You have me thinking about stuff I never thought of before. Andrew
Very interesting info 👍
Great tips Brian thanks for sharing,I'm a circle track engine builder ,love your videos
The low lift flow suffers on a steeper seat angle due to less area being exposed. This can be calculated using some trig however since there is less area exposed (less flow) the discharge coefficient is used for efficiency of the valve.
Thank you for the great information! I learn something new with every video!
Great video and tips as always, Brian. Appreciate the information. Excellent teaching skills, my friend.🏁🏁
Excellent information! More important meaningful statements made and reiterated for reference! That helps even more.
The point made about lifting a valve past a flow number is a source of contention that I’ve lived in one too many times. So much so that I avoid the conversation. I must ask if this rule still applies when port flow falls completely off at a certain lift?
I also appreciate the instruction on valve margin angle scrutiny. It’s a detail that I have never tested but will be going forward.
I’ve known from very early experiences that margin width affects airflow.
My tests have also shown that back cut angles do not have to be a mile wide that are all the way to the seating surface angle.
I’ve always tested back cut angles by starting out with the steepest back cut angle. Making that back cut angle width only wide enough to test with and hopefully there’s room to change. If not I sometimes use all 8 intake valves lessening the back cut angle until I find the angle that flows best.
Can’t wait to see the direction headed with valve guide clearance.
I see the beryllium copper or moldstar 90 seats. I know what not to do with those seats. What I’ve done to correct the issue has unnerved people in the past.
Thank you for your time and efforts!
@@hughobrien4139 yeah it always makes more power every single time to go past the max Flo Lift number
@@SalterRacingEngines Just like revving past peak power, cause when you shift, you'll be further up the powerband.
Very interested in head work and porting . Watching the fluid pour over the valve was pretty smart thinking.
I think the .200” duration numbers on a can tell me more about how it will perform than the commonly stated .050” numbers.
Anyone that thinks going to 0.500 lift on a head that flows best at 0.500 lift will make more power than going higher has no idea that being at 0.500 twice instead of once is mo better!
Another great video
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Appreciate the videos
@7:23 to answer your question, you're mainly porting for the valves, and to a certain extent the piston crown(this becomes more crucial with Hemis). The port and chamber should complement the valve job and bowl's intended flow characteristics. Fords for instance with the port biased towards the center of the cylinder aren't swirl heavy heads, Chevy with their heads biased towards the cylinder wall have more built in swirl. Swirl can help and hurt you, too much swirl means you're taking energy out of the flow, too little swirl and you won't have good fuel mixing.
Swirl , if done right never hurts. I flowed some 2019 Nascar heads....and the swirl is ASTONISHING. Put in a diesel injector , 15 compression and start dieseling!!
@@Baard2000 Swirl if done right is fantastic, in my retarded opinion, you want little swirl at very low lifts, then you want it to ramp up progressively to around 2500rpm max at full lift. Any more than that, and the swirl becomes so strong that it starts taking kinetic energy out of the flow, and can cause reversion.
Ideally you want tumble and swirl at a specific ratio(which is a function of your swirl curve) and you'll get the most homogenous and quick combustion possible.
Bless you for helping you do a darn good job
Fantastic video. Can't thank you enough for the info.
Thanks for the great videos. All of the "real" professionals like you.I listen to And you know themTalk about the same exact mods and results. The one thing they never talked about is mods to the margin. I always wondered about that. I will do some experimenting on my homemade flow bench. THANKS!
Great teaching I understand some a feel i misunderstood some things. Exciting
Excellent information. I have always felt like low lift flow is critical since the valve spends way more time at partial lift than max lift.
The size of the valve is for valve area, but it also has an effect on the flow, with larger valves creating bigger low pressure pockets under the valve as the air flows around the edge of the valve and wraps around in a vortex.
This is all legit. The devil(and horsepower) is in these details. All of these angles matter significantly. This is a credible source. Best wishes
Thanks Brian.
Awesome info brother!!!
I did that too with the stream when I was that age. I couldn’t afford a flow bench.
Love this channel
Thanks captain cam shaft
Thanks for this video.
Nice
What a great video. I've heard porting to the valve size from a private individual with a background similar to yours. Are you going to do a video that touches on what guides the choice in valve size? Have fun at PRI. Be safe
Interesting, Thank you, 👍👍👍
I know that this is a stupid question, but do you make any kind of FE heads? Most of the improvements are in the manifolds, but heads and intakes are so important in making the FE continue to be the legend it is. The Windsor is being jammed down our throats. I have been an FE fanatic since I was a child. They just can’t go away. Please don’t let them die.
Brian Pontiac ran 30° seats
Appears to be great insights, thanks for sharing. Do you know if the same applies to 4 valve heads? I've subscribed.
If memory serves me well Grumpy Jenkins ( book ) talked about 20 thou margin
You have any general impressions on the Dart Pro 1 Cathedral Port LS and their potential?
Now I have a better reason to fix my flow bench.
D Jaguar had a valve with no margin and a huge backcut, they flowed no better than the standard smaller valve
Tell those guys when they set some records they can come talk to you
I’m a bit confused. Your saying that three thou press fit a that seven thou is tighter. A assume you mean the valve stem.
No, he means the seat is 7 thou larger than the hole in the head it's being pressed into.
He is talking about the valve seat being pressed in the head. The seat needs to be .007 larger than the hole so the seat does not fall out of the head.
Forty thousand cut on intake an exhaust valves
If you knocked out and pressed in new valve guides and now the valves dont line up with the seats, whats the best way to solve that?
@@____MC____ great question and I hate to tell you this but every time you do something to that guy you have to read tru-up the valve seat. That is the only way
You have to cut new valve seat angles so that everything is lined up
Valve guide eccentricity pisses me off to no ends in certain circumstances. It seems very intentional in some cases.
There are heads out there that won’t tolerate a larger valve to accommodate the necessary corrections all derived from a set of guides that had run out built into them.
I’d see it differently if the situation dictated or if it was an issue that I couldn’t solve myself.
I just see it too often. I roll test new guides in some of my ammo reloading tooling. Nothing exotic or hard to obtain.
We all know right where to go to get nice straight valve guides.
It all appears to be intentional and it should not be this way.
@@hughobrien4139 unfortunately you are correct one of the first things you should do once you install the guide is run a reamer through it so that it's true and start from there
@SalterRacingEngines paying someone to redo the seats is probably worth more than the heads themselves. Theyre just a old set of cheap promaxx's i was trying to fix with garage tools. I hate to throw them in the trash after all the hrs put into them.
@@____MC____ you might get lucky lapping them in at least try it
I was trying to ask you to help me out
👍💪
,,, it's not the allergies ,,, .
Well I get ready to put together a $25000 dollar engine and everything for my car
@29 min, VERY feww shops,5%? have the tools or the ability to install seats with that much press fit. AND if you drag metal your valve job will never be stable- soooooo how do u install a 1.750? seat with .007 press fit AND NOT drag metal?AND lets keep in mide- taking a 356 casting over 300 f continues the aging process-
@@samstewart4807 simple you heat one and freeze the other
If you'd like me to do a video and show you how I'd be happy to
Jeez mate, so slow and drawn out, painful to listen to, also so busy reassuring everyone of your credentials over and over
almost like Vizard
@V8Lenny when you take away all the shitty delivery there's knowledge still to be had. Forrest for the trees....
@@arturozarate1752 yes I agree
@@V8Lenny yes
Good info, Brian. A lot of people don't realize how critical seat profiles really are. I will pay more attention to the margin from now on with my valves. Are you using just a regular 28" depression when you test this?