I don't know of a 4L80E behind a duramax. The duramax had an allison behind it. The detroit 6.5 had a 4L80E behind it. I worked at a GM dealer. I know a little. You know WAY more than me about a lot of stuff I know NOTHING about. You are a smart man , thus why I watch your videos
Haha. Great job! I believe this gang is better educated on converters. Adding the data graph was genius. Now I understand how a car can be more enjoyable to drive with the right converter. Thanks
Fantastic video. I've been a stick shift guy my whole life and just started messing with racing slush boxes in my 40s. Picking a torque converter from a catalog might as well be roulette to me.
On my big block gasser I put access holes in the fire wall to get to the bell housing bolts, then made plugs for them to keep out smoke and possible fires
Calvin your explanations are excellent. Most TH-camrs don't take the time to explain things like torque converter spacing. How many new guys burn stuff up not knowing those little details. Thanks man! never stop. I've learned a lot from you.
Having the right converter is probably one of the most important things in the car. Sure just about any converter will work but to get it to work perfectly for your setup is the key. Mark from M&M transmission is a genius with these things
Great video! My next door neighbor had a old Dodge? with fluid drive. Manual trans with clutch pedal but you didn't need to push in the clutch at a stoplight. I explained to people that the fluid drive was a torque converter but I was no expert on them and was mostly guessing. I was maybe 17 years old. That was 55 years ago. LOL.
Great vid. I just had circle d repair my converter and had it converted to bolt together. I’m local so they gave me a tour of the shop. Pretty neat to see it all happening.
I picked mine up last August and put it in June of this year, 2600-2800 HP 300mm unit. It definitely helped the truck get moving, 5.7 LS6 Iron Block (5.3 bored out and built like a LS6) For such a heavy vehicle it scoots now.
This video is perfect freakin timing lol. Been stressing over buying a converter for my Oldsmobile 455/TH425.The data log was so helpful for me to understand. You da man Calvin
2:53 the Airfoils are actually the piece that imparts energy into the fluid. With the turbine taking the energy out to drive the transmission. The first piece you show is simply a fluid diverter to guide the oil back to the inlet side of the airfoils. You can think of this by imagining the oil as "not rotating" and the other pieces as rotating. I realize it's kind of semantical and not actually that important. But as a aero engineer I had a tick I had to satisfy.
@@Calvin-Nelson I spent almost 20 years in machining, tooling, metal forming, etc. I have made and seen some wild things, but a torque converter makes anything I have been involved with seem like Legos lol. A marvel of engineering and manufacturing for sure.Take care...
OK, Calvin, I need to correct some of your understanding of how a lock-up clutch works. First of all, the party out held upward a stator and not the converter apply piston. It's job is to multiple the torque and horsepower coming from the engine, sometimes as much as 2.5 times the input. The lock-up clutch is splined to the front of the turbine, which transmits the engine power to the input shaft. The converter clutch piston will contact the front cover of the converter when applied. The atf will enter the converter down through the center of the input shaft and push the piston away from the front cover and pass around the edges of the piston and return to the pump and on to the cooler. When the converter clutch is engaged, the transmission will redirect the. Hope this clears this up. path the atf will travel. The aft that went down the input shaft will now be cut off and exhausted into the pan. The atf the used to pass into the pump is now redirected back into the converter and will push the converter clutch piston onto the front cover and couple the turbine and input shaft straight to the converter. The valving in the pump and / or the valve body will redirect the atf to the converter and also direct atf to the cooler, too.
as the pump and turbine come to coupling the stator begins to accelerate to match them for RPM, that's why the stator has a 1 way clutch. The fluid pressure balance between the inflow and outflow from the pump to the converter pump side to the turbine is regulated, and when the TCC valve m0oves it drains 1 side of the converter, the space behind the turbine , causing the pressure in the pump side to apply the converter clutch. the fluid drains through the end of the input shaft, that's why it has that oring to seal it and prevent pump side pressure from getting behind the turbine and preventing converter clutch apply.
Thanks for the video! I've always wanted to see one of these things dissected with an explanation of what the different parts do. Digging your channel... I'm not a seasoned drag racer or Atlas owner but your content is super interesting none the less, and the way you get deep into the technical details is knowledge that can translate to any platform.
I appreciate you correcting yourself each time you said transmission instead of torque converter. However, a torque converter definitely changes the output speed and torque of the engine, so all it needs to fit the criteria of a transmission is to stretch the requirement of 'gear set' to include the stator and pump. A CVT gets to be called a transmission and they use belts...
Lots of good information. However I must note that the fluid starts at the center of the impeller and goes outward through the fins where it contacts the turbine. When the oil enters the turbine, as it goes towards the center, the curvature of the fins changes its direction. If the stator wasn't there, the oil coming out of the turbine would hit the fins of the impeller in the opposite direction of engine rotation and bog down the engine (extremely low stall). The stator turns the oil into the direction of engine rotation and accelerates it. This is one way the stator multiplies torque. The other way is by restricting the oil flow and pushing back on the turbine from the inside. BTW, you have the stator in upside down, that won't work. On turbo gas engines, if the stall is too high, it won't build boost.
@keith-jo6wg I believe it is because you need an adequate load to create enough heat to spin up the turbo charger and not let the boost just blow through the engine. One trick is to reduce the ignition advance to make the exhaust hotter.
You've convinced me to buy the right torque converter for my car, now I just gotta figure out how to get the damn thing to fit. I tried between the clutch and flywheel, that didn't work, so I tried between the clutch and input shaft and that didn't work either. I'm not even sure they sold me the right part
Koenisegg uses a torque converter in one of their cars and he said he went to the most critical manufacturer of converters bought the best one and then dissected it... the tolerances were entirely too loose he stated, so they made their own.
Not a fan of automatic transmission except in equipment.. i never had a late model automatic they might be ok ..The bolt together convertor, i had heard of them a few years ago ... Thanks for the videos
Great video about the converter! I have a unrelated question I’ve watched a lot of of your videos and I see you have used a lot of ECUs now that you’ve done so many if you were doing it for the first time which ECU would you use? Would it still be micro squirt? Thanks
@ ok I am familiar with Holly. I have three of their systems now my only concern was I know it would be easy with the 58 reluctor engines but what about the six minus one reluctor ? Thanks agin
Have you done Torque Converter Flush on Camaro, Challenger and Mustangs from 2015 - Present day ? Most garages only do ATF and Filter change when they take the pan out, they refuse to flush out Torque Converter saying " It May Damage or Destroy the transmission ".
COMVERTER IS EVERYTHING ON THE STREET. Old school I run a 4,000 pound chevrolet caprice 1972 400CI naturally aspirated Small block that makes peak power low rpm though it a 5,200 rpm limted " i have set - but it likes 3,200 - 3500 rpm depending on road conditions for rpm max torque output. i coupled a 3 speed auto TH350 home built shift kit LOL thicker fluid and a drill bit to make more flow i then also have been running a 3,200rpm B&M holeshot with it going on 29 years now.. if i phase it just right at a stop and time perfect the throttle and stall build up without spinning the posi so i preload on it a bit and look out space shuttle launch is what i end up with straight up shits and gets it rips the power down to the ground solid very fast launch youd be surprised how well a 4,000lb car with a perfect combo of torque curve- trans stall and traction hook up will make your stomach drop to the floor with launch speed. IV been at it for 29 years with my car and this converter so lets say i have practiced a little bit over time lol 150 200 rpm to much at launch and cubic inches shred tires good show but no go when that happens.
Sorry Calvin, but no duramax ever had a 4l80e, only the Alison. Someone may correct me but I believe the vortex 8100 could be optioned with the 4l80e thought, but most had Alison's too.
Never been a big transmission buff, and so I'll probably come off sounding like a newbie with a question like this, but why are torque converters common with Automatic transmissions, but you don't deal with this peripheral with manuals really? Unless I'm missing something utterly obvious, theirs no reason you couldn't use a torque converter for a manual application given it's it's own separate drivetrain component between the engine before the trans. Edit* lol, in thinking about it, I guess clutching is one of the main reasons between idle to driving rpms
Word on the 'net is that if a torque converter sits too long, it can go bad. I think it has something to do with a camshaft. Maybe someone can confirm thiy?
Torque converter convert torque when RPM of input shaft is low or zero and "stator" is not moving -its max ratio of converting rpm to torque With rpm increase ratio is lowers and at high rpm TC works as viscous coupling (it drags some power to heat) and "stator" rotates with turbine wheel at close speed Without sprag inside "stator" it will apply huge drag to pump wheel at high rpm
I believe torque converters are just VooDoo plain and simple! Who the hell ever came up with that dark magic in the 1st place??? Must have been some sorcerer!
Yes converter shops repair them all the time. Cut them open on a lathe, disassemble, clean, replace whatever, normally the TQ clutch, weld back together and balance.
Cutting open a used converter with an angle grinder or plasma or gas ax is something some people only get to do once in their lifetime. This is because it is only slightly safer than cutting open a gas tank with said devices. The heat vaporizes the oil and anything flammable in a vapor mixed with the right amount of oxygen goes BOOM. Glad to see you didn't win a Darwin.
I've seen 1/4" torque converter spacing on stock converters that worked fine. But anytime I install a racing converter, I won't go any further if I don't see your specs.
![TIMETHAI - ไม่อยากให้เป็นเขา (Why tho?) [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/o2qYlGVVtOw/mqdefault.jpg)
As someone who has never worked with a torque converter, this is massively helpful.
I don't know of a 4L80E behind a duramax. The duramax had an allison behind it. The detroit 6.5 had a 4L80E behind it. I worked at a GM dealer. I know a little. You know WAY more than me about a lot of stuff I know NOTHING about. You are a smart man , thus why I watch your videos
Haha. Great job! I believe this gang is better educated on converters. Adding the data graph was genius. Now I understand how a car can be more enjoyable to drive with the right converter. Thanks
Fantastic video. I've been a stick shift guy my whole life and just started messing with racing slush boxes in my 40s. Picking a torque converter from a catalog might as well be roulette to me.
For me as well. roulette with 3 bullets lol
Same here. This time around, I got a project car with a slushbox, just so I can learn.
On my big block gasser I put access holes in the fire wall to get to the bell housing bolts, then made plugs for them to keep out smoke and possible fires
Calvin your explanations are excellent. Most TH-camrs don't take the time to explain things like torque converter spacing. How many new guys burn stuff up not knowing those little details. Thanks man! never stop. I've learned a lot from you.
Foot on the jack handle, we've all been there! Great video
Having the right converter is probably one of the most important things in the car. Sure just about any converter will work but to get it to work perfectly for your setup is the key. Mark from M&M transmission is a genius with these things
Great video! My next door neighbor had a old Dodge? with fluid drive. Manual trans with clutch pedal but you didn't need to push in the clutch at a stoplight. I explained to people that the fluid drive was a torque converter but I was no expert on them and was mostly guessing. I was maybe 17 years old. That was 55 years ago. LOL.
Great vid. I just had circle d repair my converter and had it converted to bolt together. I’m local so they gave me a tour of the shop. Pretty neat to see it all happening.
I picked mine up last August and put it in June of this year, 2600-2800 HP 300mm unit. It definitely helped the truck get moving, 5.7 LS6 Iron Block (5.3 bored out and built like a LS6)
For such a heavy vehicle it scoots now.
This video is perfect freakin timing lol. Been stressing over buying a converter for my Oldsmobile 455/TH425.The data log was so helpful for me to understand. You da man Calvin
Thanks mate,, very informative, never ran a stally before. most of my cars have been manuals.. But this up coming project is a 6L 80.
2:53 the Airfoils are actually the piece that imparts energy into the fluid. With the turbine taking the energy out to drive the transmission. The first piece you show is simply a fluid diverter to guide the oil back to the inlet side of the airfoils. You can think of this by imagining the oil as "not rotating" and the other pieces as rotating. I realize it's kind of semantical and not actually that important. But as a aero engineer I had a tick I had to satisfy.
Kick ass presentation. Now I want to go search for a deep dive on how they're made.
They are a marvel of engineering.
@@Calvin-Nelson I spent almost 20 years in machining, tooling, metal forming, etc. I have made and seen some wild things, but a torque converter makes anything I have been involved with seem like Legos lol. A marvel of engineering and manufacturing for sure.Take care...
OK, Calvin, I need to correct some of your understanding of how a lock-up clutch works. First of all, the party out held upward a stator and not the converter apply piston. It's job is to multiple the torque and horsepower coming from the engine, sometimes as much as 2.5 times the input. The lock-up clutch is splined to the front of the turbine, which transmits the engine power to the input shaft. The converter clutch piston will contact the front cover of the converter when applied. The atf will enter the converter down through the center of the input shaft and push the piston away from the front cover and pass around the edges of the piston and return to the pump and on to the cooler. When the converter clutch is engaged, the transmission will redirect the. Hope this clears this up. path the atf will travel. The aft that went down the input shaft will now be cut off and exhausted into the pan. The atf the used to pass into the pump is now redirected back into the converter and will push the converter clutch piston onto the front cover and couple the turbine and input shaft straight to the converter. The valving in the pump and / or the valve body will redirect the atf to the converter and also direct atf to the cooler, too.
I’m pretty sure “Torque Converter” is Calvin’s prison name
😝🤣🤝🤘
I was his cell mate. They call me Limp Mode 😂
You right
😂
@@Calvin-Nelson getting the boys worked up talking about how tight your converter was and how you wanted to make it more loose . Car convicts smh
as the pump and turbine come to coupling the stator begins to accelerate to match them for RPM, that's why the stator has a 1 way clutch. The fluid pressure balance between the inflow and outflow from the pump to the converter pump side to the turbine is regulated, and when the TCC valve m0oves it drains 1 side of the converter, the space behind the turbine , causing the pressure in the pump side to apply the converter clutch. the fluid drains through the end of the input shaft, that's why it has that oring to seal it and prevent pump side pressure from getting behind the turbine and preventing converter clutch apply.
Interesting good to know
Couldn't help thinking you needed to change your shoes like Mr Rogers lol thank you for the class you're amazing
Thanks for the video! I've always wanted to see one of these things dissected with an explanation of what the different parts do. Digging your channel... I'm not a seasoned drag racer or Atlas owner but your content is super interesting none the less, and the way you get deep into the technical details is knowledge that can translate to any platform.
Very good inside explanation
to get some light into the myth of torque converters
Great info, first person that has gone out of their way to explain!
This video significantly improved my understanding of torque converters, thank you
What a great video !!! I've always had questions about converters. Thanks for your efforts on this. I'm subscribing. Thanks
I appreciate you correcting yourself each time you said transmission instead of torque converter. However, a torque converter definitely changes the output speed and torque of the engine, so all it needs to fit the criteria of a transmission is to stretch the requirement of 'gear set' to include the stator and pump. A CVT gets to be called a transmission and they use belts...
Now that I see it I finally understand what’s happening in my RV. I thought what felt like a gear between Drive and OD.
Very cool! Thanks for putting out great content.
I love your in depth videos and I can wait to build a ls with you videos on to yo prep a ls for big power
so what size stall is your old stall and the new one?
Very informative!
This really smart guy I know said it's like two fans blowing fluid through each other, and I see it now.
Thanks for the explanation! Actually really helped me understand whats going on!
Very nice video Calvin!
Lots of good information. However I must note that the fluid starts at the center of the impeller and goes outward through the fins where it contacts the turbine. When the oil enters the turbine, as it goes towards the center, the curvature of the fins changes its direction. If the stator wasn't there, the oil coming out of the turbine would hit the fins of the impeller in the opposite direction of engine rotation and bog down the engine (extremely low stall). The stator turns the oil into the direction of engine rotation and accelerates it. This is one way the stator multiplies torque. The other way is by restricting the oil flow and pushing back on the turbine from the inside. BTW, you have the stator in upside down, that won't work.
On turbo gas engines, if the stall is too high, it won't build boost.
Mabie bc its too high rpm then too build boost?
@keith-jo6wg I believe it is because you need an adequate load to create enough heat to spin up the turbo charger and not let the boost just blow through the engine. One trick is to reduce the ignition advance to make the exhaust hotter.
You've convinced me to buy the right torque converter for my car, now I just gotta figure out how to get the damn thing to fit. I tried between the clutch and flywheel, that didn't work, so I tried between the clutch and input shaft and that didn't work either. I'm not even sure they sold me the right part
Fluid mechanics is based on Q=VA and the bernouli theorem. How TC designers apply it from there would be interesting to learn.
Great explanation! Thank you!
Step one to making your torque converter highly efficient: put a manual in your car
nice work.
Calvin!!, thanks for the Videos
🎉
Awesome. Super educational
Koenisegg uses a torque converter in one of their cars and he said he went to the most critical manufacturer of converters bought the best one and then dissected it... the tolerances were entirely too loose he stated, so they made their own.
Nice wagon build
Makita crudely translated means to spin or to roll or spinner or roler.
Right converter is no joke , knocked 5/10 off our n/a 355 sbc nova , 2650 lbs & 6.20 1/8 & 9.90 1/4 . Not cheap but a game changer
And one engine and TC can would well in one build but could be out of spec for another if the shells are not about the same weight.
Not a fan of automatic transmission except in equipment.. i never had a late model automatic they might be ok ..The bolt together convertor, i had heard of them a few years ago ... Thanks for the videos
Neil Chance and Dave Goerend both build bolt together convertors
Looks like you are driving in my hometown.
DITO!!!! I HATE droppin transmissions!!!! About the 1500th time the wrench hits the ground in want to throw it!!! ROFLMFAO!!!!
Great video about the converter! I have a unrelated question I’ve watched a lot of of your videos and I see you have used a lot of ECUs now that you’ve done so many if you were doing it for the first time which ECU would you use? Would it still be micro squirt? Thanks
Holley. They can do a decent amount of things (not all), but they are easiest to tune and have good results.
@ ok I am familiar with Holly. I have three of their systems now my only concern was I know it would be easy with the 58 reluctor engines but what about the six minus one reluctor ? Thanks agin
Have you done Torque Converter Flush on Camaro, Challenger and Mustangs from 2015 - Present day ? Most garages only do ATF and Filter change when they take the pan out, they refuse to flush out Torque Converter saying " It May Damage or Destroy the transmission ".
COMVERTER IS EVERYTHING ON THE STREET. Old school I run a 4,000 pound chevrolet caprice 1972 400CI naturally aspirated Small block that makes peak power low rpm though it a 5,200 rpm limted " i have set - but it likes 3,200 - 3500 rpm depending on road conditions for rpm max torque output. i coupled a 3 speed auto TH350 home built shift kit LOL thicker fluid and a drill bit to make more flow i then also have been running a 3,200rpm B&M holeshot with it going on 29 years now.. if i phase it just right at a stop and time perfect the throttle and stall build up without spinning the posi so i preload on it a bit and look out space shuttle launch is what i end up with straight up shits and gets it rips the power down to the ground solid very fast launch youd be surprised how well a 4,000lb car with a perfect combo of torque curve- trans stall and traction hook up will make your stomach drop to the floor with launch speed. IV been at it for 29 years with my car and this converter so lets say i have practiced a little bit over time lol 150 200 rpm to much at launch and cubic inches shred tires good show but no go when that happens.
What do you think about using a heavier flywheel on the six cylinder to increase the inertia of the engine and help hold up the rpm on shifts?
Alien technology. The Grays have been running 4L80e units for millennia in their craft.
Lock up is a good thing for less heat and mpg when cruising. can add mph at the track.his is full race tho.street 2800-3000 with lock up is good 👍
So this is where most of the heat is generated in an automatic transmission, the fluid friction in the torque converter.
Yep
It's all Greek to me! Great video.
Plenty good info ! !
yep a slightly looser converter is how you go fast as it avoids too much power being put down too quickly and with right tuner its THE key
Just put a billet 300mm circle d converter with a 3000 stall in my single cab, she goes l!
Cool 😎
Black magic is also what they called me in the changing room in college
It got frostbite
Watching
Sorry Calvin, but no duramax ever had a 4l80e, only the Alison. Someone may correct me but I believe the vortex 8100 could be optioned with the 4l80e thought, but most had Alison's too.
But 95% came behind a 6.0 or 4.8, and a few Detroit 6.5's
You got a 4l80e in a one ton in the 90 ara big block or 350 also I know that I had a few of them.
@@NonotEver1 but never the duramax lol
The Duramax Express cargo vans came with the 4l85E basically just a stronger 4L80 so just correcting you because you asked for it lol
@@mross302 the Alison cam in a a gas motor in the 4500 to 5500 gas motor 🤡
I could almost smell the ATF in my head.
Would you still recommend the Jegs xhd for a budget converter or would you suggest save up for a spec'd converter.
They work good in a lot of cases, but I'll say I'm very happy with the circle D. They have been doing great
Awesome, Thanks!
I honestly didn't know they were that complicated
What was the digital reader on the dashboard?
Never been a big transmission buff, and so I'll probably come off sounding like a newbie with a question like this, but why are torque converters common with Automatic transmissions, but you don't deal with this peripheral with manuals really? Unless I'm missing something utterly obvious, theirs no reason you couldn't use a torque converter for a manual application given it's it's own separate drivetrain component between the engine before the trans.
Edit* lol, in thinking about it, I guess clutching is one of the main reasons between idle to driving rpms
What's a torque converter? (My clutch wants to know, lol)
Word on the 'net is that if a torque converter sits too long, it can go bad.
I think it has something to do with a camshaft.
Maybe someone can confirm thiy?
Torque converter convert torque when RPM of input shaft is low or zero and "stator" is not moving -its max ratio of converting rpm to torque
With rpm increase ratio is lowers and at high rpm TC works as viscous coupling (it drags some power to heat) and "stator" rotates with turbine wheel at close speed
Without sprag inside "stator" it will apply huge drag to pump wheel at high rpm
gotta 8hp the 4200 supra!
The best advice is, "If you don't do it, nobody's gonna do it for you."
Would you like to sell those headers
Those shifts sound tight. Did your dad teach you everything?
I believe torque converters are just VooDoo plain and simple! Who the hell ever came up with that dark magic in the 1st place??? Must have been some sorcerer!
Funny enough was two brasileiros who sold the rights to GM group at the time. It was called "câmbio hidramático" at the time.
Given the way you opened that up with an angle grinder, I'm guessing this is something you don't repair but rather replace as a whole?
Nope. You can absolutely repair them. I'm just a caveman.
Yes converter shops repair them all the time. Cut them open on a lathe, disassemble, clean, replace whatever, normally the TQ clutch, weld back together and balance.
@@rpturbo Thanks for the heads up!
Pour a beer for that case. All it wanted was to be parted in a Lathe.
John Deere HY Gard ? Anyone using this in your car's? Thoughts or issues with it? Very Interesting
Sorcery plain and simple
I prefer the Tremec Magnum, dual disc clutch and home brew clutch tamer.
But to each his own. Thanks for the video. Good job.
Yeah. These are a bit more consistent and don't wear out. Manual cars are fun though
Using an old GRM forum phrase, I see. "Your Mileage May Vary."
Yessir!
{BA Baracus voice} I pity da foooo that put a 4L80 behind a Dmax! 🤣
(Had Alison A1000's)
Chevy did.
@@timschrock23 - AFAIK, all trucks got A1000's - vans got the 4L85 or 6L90.
What would you recommend for a road racing application with heavy downshifting?
What would be a torque converter upgrade for a stock 351 Windsor with a FMX to free up one or two ponies 😉?
Thank you!
Cutting open a used converter with an angle grinder or plasma or gas ax is something some people only get to do once in their lifetime.
This is because it is only slightly safer than cutting open a gas tank with said devices.
The heat vaporizes the oil and anything flammable in a vapor mixed with the right amount of oxygen goes BOOM.
Glad to see you didn't win a Darwin.
368 days since the twin turbo Cadillac Northstar that was a punch in the gut
We are making plans. At PRI right now working on solutions.
I always build my cars around the camshaft 😮.
I've seen 1/4" torque converter spacing on stock converters that worked fine. But anytime I install a racing converter, I won't go any further if I don't see your specs.
Yeah. Street use is very different than track.
BTW your crazy for touching that trans fluid with your bare hands lol I can't stand that stuff. It absorbs into your skin immediately lol
If j may be honest. I'd say ditch the convertor and automatic.
Even if that made me slower i would do that
i only drive manuals, unless its my wifes minivan
Pleaseeeee, Northstar Update?
You should make a doghouse in the car so you can pull the trans out of the top.
The humongous wuhan war whistle has nothing to do at all with this car being fast... its only the torque converter!
I appreciate your knowledge-but that’s an ugly ass car(station wagon)
Ha! It looks pretty cool going 8s though.
@ you got me there
wear rubber gloves dude
Should be called the Ford "UnFairMont" lol. Always thought Glidden should have had that all over his factory Fords hehehehehe!
Here, I'll join in the efforts to help you break the curse. Torque Converter.. not transmission.