I have two of these, open baffle, with a Boston subwoofer amp, just love how it makes bass, drums, sound. I have Klipsch Heresy IV, Primaluna tube amp, Khozmo passive Preamplifier, very happy.
Its amazing. The issue with the fast8 is that if you dont cutoff low frequencies from it, even tho they are much lower in db through baffle adjustments the driver is still impacted by trying to produce those frequencies and hurts the mids and highs because its a single driver.
Hi, I've been following Lee Sung's products for a long time, although I "only" have the fast F6, but from what I heard in this demo it turns out that I chose the Crown 1002 and with you the result is amazing in frequencies and maybe I'll try other Lee Sung drivers as well, after I finish a project with tannoy "12, I was happy to hear and will continue to follow
So cool! I love it when the right implementation is not the most expensive one. I’m curious about open baffle builds - maybe down the line if I get into a bigger space. Can I ask, what kit design(s) are you using? And what kind of crossover are you using 🙏🏼👍🏼
Crown xls amps are surprisingly good neutral low cost power amplification option.....Great for driving subs, bass drivers, and with a nice tube (or open warmish SS) preamp can sound really impressive driving main speakers too! I love my xls1502
The class D amp you use is a guality one (not a $20 one) but would probably still have that pizzed up top end sound (just cleaner). Perfect for FR drivers! The class D amp pobably sounds better on your speakers than normal 2-ways. 😅
Try building a big baffle for the bass driver and have a completely open 5" FR driver on top. I have my open FR driver on top of a bass reflex box with a normally mounted woofer. They are the best speakers I heard! They flog my B&W 706 bookshelf speakers (2 grand). I urge you to make them and test against the 15" FR speakers. I used $9 FR drivers and can afford to modify them. This is what I did. They roll off up top but I changed that by slitting the cone (right through) with a sharp razer blade. I made 8mm long cuts around the center (3mm out) right around, with 5mm gaps that are not cut. I repeated the process 1cm out. For the best treble I ever heard! 😅 I also removed the dust cap and whizzer cone (if it has one) so there is no enclosed chambers what so ever and also no out of phase whizzer. I also made cutouts on the main cone (right around a 3" diameter circle softly drawn on the cone). I made five 25mm curved cuts around the circle, with gaps about 12 mm long (that are not cut). Softly draw thin banana crescents outside the cuts so they start and stop @ the start of the cuts (width of the crescent in the middle is about 3-4 mm). This acts like a free edge cone! And it's still strong and you can crank it a fair bit (I have a 100 mf cap on the open driver along with a filter and a large inductor on the woofer about 300 hz crossover fr). And the voice sound is so confined! You can "see" their tonsils! It's dipole and holographic off the scale. You can hear everything. With the cutout it's not shouty and the med is so clean, defined and detailed and not a hint of resonance! Just completely clean and lush. Like an aluminium ribbon panel speaker but it's entirely cardboard! Crazy sound. If you make it, listen and close your eyes and try to imagine it's conventional 2-ways. Good for a laugh! For the start you çan't even tell where the speakers are (with eyes closed). Love your channel and take care. And remember, there's nothin' like dipole point source! ❤
Love your channel! My new favorite! Following your lead I have the fast 8 on the way for some Caintuck baffles. But…. I’m already thinking steps ahead… possibly pairing them with the f15. I would bi-amp these and have a mini-dsp to handle crossover duties. What do ya think? Good pairing?? Right now I have a Shiit Vidar only. Maybe tubes for the fast 8? Keep up the good work!!
I'm about to make the same "woofer" baffle as you have in the corner. I will put the speaker behind the baffle, using 1 1/2 plywood. Crossover at 120hz. The dimension from yours is 24" x 24" ? Thanks for your help Loic. I love your channel.
@@hificave I've made also the same baffle as your F-15, but mine is with the F-12. Place at 30 inch from the floor. This 12 woofer lack a little midbass. Does the F-15 or even a F-18 will bring more Midbass if I modify eventually my baffle to allow these new fullrange sjze ? Another last question. Do I need to also add weight for my full range baffle ? Thanks for you wonderfull help and design I have a lot of fun listening to the Lii song speaker and DIY.
This could be my future hifi dream ... Leonidas baffles, Decware Zen amp for top end, Crown XLS for the W15, Cambridge Audio 851 streamer/DAC for the source ... years of enjoyment ahead!
Crown audio is a hidden gem, too many audiophile shit on it for no reason, ive had an Xti2000 for over 10y and although true, not the best sounding, the versitality(amazing software DSP, eq, xover, phase setup, etc, amount of power for the money, built like a tank(for pro use)with with the right pairing, its pretty amazing, i have yet to find another amp that can do so much for so little $$!
I reckon class D has treble a bit like piezoelectric tweeters. I used those tweeters inside coaxial drivers and I made inductors with 20 winds of standard speaker cable around a pencil (and hot glued). This improved the "spiky" sound of the piezoelectrics a lot. So maybe try 10 winds on a class D amp so it sounds more like an AB amp (maybe).
Will the W15 and Crown amp combo be fast (enough) to integrate with Magnapan speakers? I can not find a good sound with "box" woofers/subwoofer - it just does not sound natural. I don't want to spend $2K on Magnapan DWS panels and I am trying to find a good alternative. Any insight is deeply appreciated.
Fast 8 with w15 vs f15 with w15 vs fast 15 with w15? Edit- assuming you're using dsp. I'm thinking about doing a w15s, fast 8 and planar tweeter with minidsp flex 8 and Dirac.
Cool setup, thanks for sharing. How do you crossover the low frequencies, do you use an active crossover or you send all the frequencies to the Crown and let the woofer handle what it can. Or do you set the crossover in the crown directly?
GM70 are among my favorite tubes. Whether copper anodes sound better than graphite or iron has a lot to do with the design of the amplifier (in the Amplifon, perhaps my favorite GM70 amp, the copper sound very different, but not "better" - actually I know at least four audiophiles who think it sounds worse, so much for tube aficionado opinions…). In general the "sound" of any particular tube is hard to discuss fairly because so much depends on the circuit in which it's used. GM100 I have only heard at trade shows (e.g. NAT). Any amps in particular you have in mind there?
if it sounds anything similar or in the same gamut as a 211 or 845. for sure I would love it. What do you like the most from a GM70 compared to others?
Hi thanks very much for being the guiding light for front baffles. I learnt alot from your videos and am interested in your baffles. Would you be keen to sell them with the crossover ?
They are ment for open baffles. But there no plans available that I can see. I did a trial amd error starting with the similar size specs of the liionidas baffles and taking steps in various directions from there.
Hi. Love your channel and your way of getting great sound at not too high a price. Just got a pair of new W15s to handle bass below 70hz via an active crossover, powered by a Hegel H120 ( 2 x 75 W into 8 Ω and stable at 2 Ω ). For some reason W15s are crackling quite easily on reaching peaks. I would have thought that these powerful speakers would easily cope with peaks and high wattage. Wonder if you could help me out or give some advice as you must have loads of experience dealing with these speakers.
Cracks? Hmmm. when using with an amp that was struggling at 2ohm, the amp would cause distortion. Does it happen when just a single coil is connected? (It has two sets of jacks on it, are they both wired or just one set?)
@@hificave Thanks for prompt reply. I first tried single connection and then in series by having an additional short wire connection between the two terminals. So problem persisted both when using single and both coils. The Hegel amp has good current capabilities and high damping factor so I would have thought that there would be good compatibility. I realise that the W15 are quite efficient but did not expect them to struggle when dealing with peaks.
Great video Loic! I recall you have 2 dedicated power lines for amp and sources. Did you plug in the Crown amp with your existing dedicated amp circuit? I was wondering if that negatively impacts the existing amp-to have another amp muddying the waters
Since I introduced the Puritan psm156. None that applies. Tried it in the puritan, direct in the wall, same circuit diffrent circuit. It always sounds good. Right now, its direct in the wall in the same circuit as the puritan and the rest of the components why? Because i ran out of outlet for all my gear so I prioritized the sources and upstream components in there over this amp. As if noise is coming in to an amp giving clean power to the amp will not make it better.
Too many factors. Baffle size, material, weight, positioning, amp, and paired drivers. You have to try different levels in your room and see what you prefer. In my room, It doesnt need to ever go over 200hz with my current baffles. But I prefer it around 90hz
Both drivers (F15 and the F8) sound really great. Leon Huigen, the designer behind the Leonidas recommended that Crown amp for the W15. Do you have a listening preference between the F15 and F8?
I like em both, fast8 seems to do some genres a bit better due to the a higher detail retrieval and speed but the drums, piano and acoustic feel of the f15 is really good. Matter of taste.
@@hificave only wish you played each drive a tad longer like 20 or so seconds on the same verse to hear the differences. Nonetheless we are very appreciative.
I have been doing the same thing you are doing with full range and woofers. Right now I have Fast 8 with Goldwood 15”. I have designed a few crossovers, but I have been thinking about using an active crossover as a starting point in addition to measurement mics. Have you tried any active crossovers? Rolls Mini has caught my eye.
@@ScoobyGFunk2 yeah, but the ones I want are pricy… but I need to test limiting the full range to above 200hz only and let it free to shine in the mids free from the lows and see what that sounds like.
Havent had any issues. They are over 90db sensitive, they dont need to be run at full gain on the crown. Dont bridge the crown and use at full gain. But that would be completely overwhelming in energy output anyway.
I'm drooling in envy ;-) Great info. To what do you ascribe the Crown's excellence? Class D? Sheer watts? What's a ballpark figure for the minimum watts in a room large enough for open baffle that will still get the job done in Class D?
I really cant say. Maybe there is something to be said about the control of a driver a class D amp is capable of but that cant is not the bottom line in terms of good sound. As far as sheer watts, all I can say is, there 8 watts driving the f15 and 300 driving the w15 here... and both sound great. (what does that mean?)
@@hificave What that suggests to me is that the deeper the frequency (for a given driver's size) the more Watts, resolution and damping factor from the amplifier is required for optimal operation of the driver in producing good bass. Well implemented Class D is known for excelling in those areas. A number of audio reviewers have commented upon the quality/cost ratio for that Crown amp.
@@hificave Those are indeed factors though somewhat interrelated, for instance a weak magnet in a large driver will not have high sensitivity. The W15 is a high sensitivity bass driver, just a bit less than the full range F15, yet still needs far more watts than the F15. Which all else being comparable is what leads me to suspect that it is the bass frequency that is the determinate factor in why there is a difference. A deeper bass note requires a greater movement of air which takes more power, i.e. Watts. Test tones and a volume meter might well confirm or dismiss this factor. As, if a test tone of 36Hz requires turning up the volume to match the volume of perhaps a 80Hz tone, it would confirm that theory. If no change on the volume meter is seen, then we have another theory shot down in flames ;-)
I'm confused! With the Fast 8 rolling off at 200Hz, why would you have the F15 starting at 250Hz? I would have been more inclined to set at say 150Hz, then take measurements even with a simple phone app to see where they are summing and alter so the point where they crossover is flat. Only jumping in at 250Hz you are going to have a lump and likely some cancellation as well.
Fast 8 was even from 250hz and up. under this it was dropping hard, like -8db at 160hz and -14db at 120hz and under. Because of the baffles and height they were on (fast 8 do not all do this, depends on the configuration of the baffle. Its in this context. The w15 in this case was used from 30hz to 250hz to fill the missing gap under 250hz which the fast8 in this case was not filling in.
The term "subwoofer" is often misused. The W-15 is a "bass driver", and the range is higher than a "by design" subwoofer. For me, the real magic is in the "mid" bass. Tight, and it pops. To get below 30Hz, you would need a traditional subwoofer - but with these, I personally, don't hear a need. IMO & YMMV
Agreed. And a driver capable of single digit hz, and performing well in that spectrum in conjunction with the amplification is very easier said then done.
I also have to ask if you are really getting anything near 30Hz at the listening position. With a different driver and a much larger U frame, I get a lot of roll off at 60Hz. Some dsp boost around 45Hz can get me down there but that is it. Sounds great, but nothing below 40.
This channel is getting wild! Congrats!
So true! This channel is WILD 🔥👏🏼👏🏼👌🏽
I’m about 8 months late to this party, but I really dig the channel. Thank you! 🔊😊🎶
The XLS 1002 is no slouch. I have it in my setup right now.
I have two of these, open baffle, with a Boston subwoofer amp, just love how it makes bass, drums, sound. I have Klipsch Heresy IV, Primaluna tube amp, Khozmo passive Preamplifier, very happy.
Great presentation and insight. The sound clip at 1.05 is awesome in the 30-90Hz scenario.
Its amazing. The issue with the fast8 is that if you dont cutoff low frequencies from it, even tho they are much lower in db through baffle adjustments the driver is still impacted by trying to produce those frequencies and hurts the mids and highs because its a single driver.
Loic, would you please show how everything connects: the bi-amping and the crossovers.
thanks...
Sure thing! I can make a quick video for it.
@@hificave Please do.
@Hifi Cave when you have, can you please post a link? I am very much enjoying your videos
Would also love a video showing the setup.
Really starting to toy with the idea of some DIY speakers after watching your videos on the Lii-song drivers.
Hi, I've been following Lee Sung's products for a long time, although I "only" have the fast F6, but from what I heard in this demo it turns out that I chose the Crown 1002 and with you the result is amazing in frequencies and maybe I'll try other Lee Sung drivers as well, after I finish a project with tannoy "12, I was happy to hear and will continue to follow
Crown are one if the best Beast AMP. I used them in my bars... Thay are clean, detailled and no mots of all DJ where able to jump them.
Oh man can’t wait to hear!you’ve got me intrigued with the crown amp
When I tried it on the full range drivers, I have a different opinion…. :-)
LOIC,THE FUN CONTINUES 🤗😎💚💚💚
So cool! I love it when the right implementation is not the most expensive one. I’m curious about open baffle builds - maybe down the line if I get into a bigger space. Can I ask, what kit design(s) are you using? And what kind of crossover are you using 🙏🏼👍🏼
Hey Loic, i suggest you search out a Crown Macrotech, best bass slam i have ever heard. Class ab/b i believe, no processing inside though.
Crown xls amps are surprisingly good neutral low cost power amplification option.....Great for driving subs, bass drivers, and with a nice tube (or open warmish SS) preamp can sound really impressive driving main speakers too! I love my xls1502
Well said!
The class D amp you use is a guality one (not a $20 one) but would probably still have that pizzed up top end sound (just cleaner). Perfect for FR drivers! The class D amp pobably sounds better on your speakers than normal 2-ways. 😅
Great vid, awesome info!
Try building a big baffle for the bass driver and have a completely open 5" FR driver on top. I have my open FR driver on top of a bass reflex box with a normally mounted woofer. They are the best speakers I heard! They flog my B&W 706 bookshelf speakers (2 grand). I urge you to make them and test against the 15" FR speakers. I used $9 FR drivers and can afford to modify them. This is what I did. They roll off up top but I changed that by slitting the cone (right through) with a sharp razer blade. I made 8mm long cuts around the center (3mm out) right around, with 5mm gaps that are not cut. I repeated the process 1cm out. For the best treble I ever heard! 😅 I also removed the dust cap and whizzer cone (if it has one) so there is no enclosed chambers what so ever and also no out of phase whizzer. I also made cutouts on the main cone (right around a 3" diameter circle softly drawn on the cone). I made five 25mm curved cuts around the circle, with gaps about 12 mm long (that are not cut). Softly draw thin banana crescents outside the cuts so they start and stop @ the start of the cuts (width of the crescent in the middle is about 3-4 mm). This acts like a free edge cone! And it's still strong and you can crank it a fair bit (I have a 100 mf cap on the open driver along with a filter and a large inductor on the woofer about 300 hz crossover fr). And the voice sound is so confined! You can "see" their tonsils! It's dipole and holographic off the scale. You can hear everything. With the cutout it's not shouty and the med is so clean, defined and detailed and not a hint of resonance! Just completely clean and lush. Like an aluminium ribbon panel speaker but it's entirely cardboard! Crazy sound. If you make it, listen and close your eyes and try to imagine it's conventional 2-ways. Good for a laugh! For the start you çan't even tell where the speakers are (with eyes closed). Love your channel and take care. And remember, there's nothin' like dipole point source! ❤
Love your channel! My new favorite! Following your lead I have the fast 8 on the way for some Caintuck baffles. But…. I’m already thinking steps ahead… possibly pairing them with the f15. I would bi-amp these and have a mini-dsp to handle crossover duties. What do ya think? Good pairing?? Right now I have a Shiit Vidar only. Maybe tubes for the fast 8? Keep up the good work!!
I'm about to make the same "woofer" baffle as you have in the corner. I will put the speaker behind the baffle, using 1 1/2 plywood.
Crossover at 120hz.
The dimension from yours is 24" x 24" ?
Thanks for your help Loic. I love your channel.
Yup 24x24. Add weights on the back to increase grounded effect and reduce vibrations
@@hificave I've made also the same baffle as your F-15, but mine is with the F-12. Place at 30 inch from the floor. This 12 woofer lack a little midbass.
Does the F-15 or even a F-18 will bring more Midbass if I modify eventually my baffle to allow these new fullrange sjze ?
Another last question. Do I need to also add weight for my full range baffle ?
Thanks for you wonderfull help and design I have a lot of fun listening to the Lii song speaker and DIY.
This could be my future hifi dream ... Leonidas baffles, Decware Zen amp for top end, Crown XLS for the W15, Cambridge Audio 851 streamer/DAC for the source ... years of enjoyment ahead!
One step at a time! All attainable gear for the average person.
Great stuff!
Crown audio is a hidden gem, too many audiophile shit on it for no reason, ive had an Xti2000 for over 10y and although true, not the best sounding, the versitality(amazing software DSP, eq, xover, phase setup, etc, amount of power for the money, built like a tank(for pro use)with with the right pairing, its pretty amazing, i have yet to find another amp that can do so much for so little $$!
I reckon class D has treble a bit like piezoelectric tweeters. I used those tweeters inside coaxial drivers and I made inductors with 20 winds of standard speaker cable around a pencil (and hot glued). This improved the "spiky" sound of the piezoelectrics a lot. So maybe try 10 winds on a class D amp so it sounds more like an AB amp (maybe).
@@Justwantahover How did you get on
i found a crown 1502 / 2002 isone better than the other to drive 2 X W15 open baffle subs like the ones on your video ? thanks again
Just more power. The xls allows for crossover settings.
@@hificave 🙏 much appreciated ,thanks again
Will the W15 and Crown amp combo be fast (enough) to integrate with Magnapan speakers? I can not find a good sound with "box" woofers/subwoofer - it just does not sound natural. I don't want to spend $2K on Magnapan DWS panels and I am trying to find a good alternative. Any insight is deeply appreciated.
Try REL Subwoofers
Fast 8 with w15 vs f15 with w15 vs fast 15 with w15? Edit- assuming you're using dsp. I'm thinking about doing a w15s, fast 8 and planar tweeter with minidsp flex 8 and Dirac.
Cool setup, thanks for sharing. How do you crossover the low frequencies, do you use an active crossover or you send all the frequencies to the Crown and let the woofer handle what it can. Or do you set the crossover in the crown directly?
Crown directly.
You need a SET with GM 70 or GM 100 tubes
The copper GM70's have a nice sound - may be a little hard to get right now.
GM70 are among my favorite tubes. Whether copper anodes sound better than graphite or iron has a lot to do with the design of the amplifier (in the Amplifon, perhaps my favorite GM70 amp, the copper sound very different, but not "better" - actually I know at least four audiophiles who think it sounds worse, so much for tube aficionado opinions…). In general the "sound" of any particular tube is hard to discuss fairly because so much depends on the circuit in which it's used. GM100 I have only heard at trade shows (e.g. NAT). Any amps in particular you have in mind there?
if it sounds anything similar or in the same gamut as a 211 or 845. for sure I would love it. What do you like the most from a GM70 compared to others?
@@hificave Hi power for a SET Amp. 18 to 28w that will blow your mind.
GM 100 80 to 140w but I can get better music out of a push pull.
@@hificave just be aware you will not need a home fireplace, central heating, or a space heater. GM 70 puts out enough heat to bake brownies.
@@MrRourk i frackin love brownies!! 😎
Great!! What pre are you driving the XLS with?
Melody p1688 with balanced connection.
@@hificave wow, bet that’s awesome
Hi thanks very much for being the guiding light for front baffles. I learnt alot from your videos and am interested in your baffles. Would you be keen to sell them with the crossover ?
Thats tricky… its a DIy project…. I need to think about it.
@@hificave ok sure, thanks
cheers mate , i looked at their web page but they had no speaker plan for the W 15, can you tell me where i can find one . Thanks
They are ment for open baffles. But there no plans available that I can see. I did a trial amd error starting with the similar size specs of the liionidas baffles and taking steps in various directions from there.
@@hificave cheers ,can you give us what you did so i can copy it .thanks again
🙏 much appreciated ,thanks again
What does the front end look like with the F15 & W15, how are you getting signal to the Crown amp?
My preamp has 3 outputs for tri-amping.
Nice video. Thank you. May I ask how you got the 90Hz cutoff? I mean you used one coil? What was the value of the coil?
Its controlled at the crossover.
Hi. Love your channel and your way of getting great sound at not too high a price. Just got a pair of new W15s to handle bass below 70hz via an active crossover, powered by a Hegel H120 ( 2 x 75 W into 8 Ω and stable at 2 Ω ). For some reason W15s are crackling quite easily on reaching peaks. I would have thought that these powerful speakers would easily cope with peaks and high wattage. Wonder if you could help me out or give some advice as you must have loads of experience dealing with these speakers.
Cracks? Hmmm. when using with an amp that was struggling at 2ohm, the amp would cause distortion. Does it happen when just a single coil is connected? (It has two sets of jacks on it, are they both wired or just one set?)
@@hificave Thanks for prompt reply. I first tried single connection and then in series by having an additional short wire connection between the two terminals. So problem persisted both when using single and both coils. The Hegel amp has good current capabilities and high damping factor so I would have thought that there would be good compatibility. I realise that the W15 are quite efficient but did not expect them to struggle when dealing with peaks.
@@TonioMallia since I moved to class D no struggles. But maybe there is more to it.
@@hificave Thanks for advice Loic. Will see if I can get or borrow a class D amp to see if that changes things.
@@TonioMallia how loud does the distortion happen?
Have you thought about using a u or h frame for the w15. You should be able to extend the bass by around 10 htz at the cost of sensativity.
I did not think if that. Thanks!!
Great video Loic! I recall you have 2 dedicated power lines for amp and sources. Did you plug in the Crown amp with your existing dedicated amp circuit? I was wondering if that negatively impacts the existing amp-to have another amp muddying the waters
Since I introduced the Puritan psm156. None that applies. Tried it in the puritan, direct in the wall, same circuit diffrent circuit. It always sounds good. Right now, its direct in the wall in the same circuit as the puritan and the rest of the components why? Because i ran out of outlet for all my gear so I prioritized the sources and upstream components in there over this amp. As if noise is coming in to an amp giving clean power to the amp will not make it better.
What is the highest you would recommend crossing the W15 at?
Too many factors. Baffle size, material, weight, positioning, amp, and paired drivers. You have to try different levels in your room and see what you prefer. In my room, It doesnt need to ever go over 200hz with my current baffles. But I prefer it around 90hz
Both drivers (F15 and the F8) sound really great. Leon Huigen, the designer behind the Leonidas recommended that Crown amp for the W15.
Do you have a listening preference between the F15 and F8?
I like em both, fast8 seems to do some genres a bit better due to the a higher detail retrieval and speed but the drums, piano and acoustic feel of the f15 is really good. Matter of taste.
@@hificave thanks for taking the time to respond.
@@hificave only wish you played each drive a tad longer like 20 or so seconds on the same verse to hear the differences. Nonetheless we are very appreciative.
Are you only crossing over the w15 and no crossover on the full range?
For now….
I have been doing the same thing you are doing with full range and woofers. Right now I have Fast 8 with Goldwood 15”. I have designed a few crossovers, but I have been thinking about using an active crossover as a starting point in addition to measurement mics. Have you tried any active crossovers? Rolls Mini has caught my eye.
@@ScoobyGFunk2 yeah, but the ones I want are pricy… but I need to test limiting the full range to above 200hz only and let it free to shine in the mids free from the lows and see what that sounds like.
Does the Crown create noise on the W15, due to the W15’s sensitivity or does dialing down the gain fix that?
I would need to remove the conditioner (puritan psm156) as right now there is no noise. But it could be thanks to the puritan.
When you and Thomas Tested the W15 in the Leonidas Extreme did you use the Lii crossover or bypass it?
Did both.
What did you think of the crossover ?
@@khankx fine until you hear it biamped… then you cant go back.
Ohh but…. There is a superior crossover in the works by li-song.. but cant say more until its done testing and goes to the next phase.
@@julieheard3797 no affiliation. I purchased various drivers over time, and became friendly with toronto distributors. But thats it.
maybe a stupid question , do you use both f15 and w15 open? (without filtering them ) ?
thank you !
guess not, but i wonder how the w15 sounds direct driven by the amp?!
Both wide open doesnt sound right.
F15 and w15 or crystal 10 and w15. Having used them both which combination sounds better?
Its a matter of preference. Generally speaking crystal 10/silver 10, will please more people. Better detail, more air, more layers.
Got it! Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I finished a pair of these with F15s. Really enjoying them. Wish I could post a photo of them.
The W15's specs rate max power at 100-150W. That's not a problem with the Crown amp?
Havent had any issues. They are over 90db sensitive, they dont need to be run at full gain on the crown. Dont bridge the crown and use at full gain. But that would be completely overwhelming in energy output anyway.
I'm drooling in envy ;-) Great info. To what do you ascribe the Crown's excellence? Class D? Sheer watts? What's a ballpark figure for the minimum watts in a room large enough for open baffle that will still get the job done in Class D?
I really cant say. Maybe there is something to be said about the control of a driver a class D amp is capable of but that cant is not the bottom line in terms of good sound. As far as sheer watts, all I can say is, there 8 watts driving the f15 and 300 driving the w15 here... and both sound great. (what does that mean?)
@@hificave What that suggests to me is that the deeper the frequency (for a given driver's size) the more Watts, resolution and damping factor from the amplifier is required for optimal operation of the driver in producing good bass. Well implemented Class D is known for excelling in those areas. A number of audio reviewers have commented upon the quality/cost ratio for that Crown amp.
@@geoffreydebrito7934 for sure, but there is more to it, driver sensitivity comes into play, magnet type, voice coil size and length…
@@hificave Those are indeed factors though somewhat interrelated, for instance a weak magnet in a large driver will not have high sensitivity. The W15 is a high sensitivity bass driver, just a bit less than the full range F15, yet still needs far more watts than the F15. Which all else being comparable is what leads me to suspect that it is the bass frequency that is the determinate factor in why there is a difference. A deeper bass note requires a greater movement of air which takes more power, i.e. Watts.
Test tones and a volume meter might well confirm or dismiss this factor. As, if a test tone of 36Hz requires turning up the volume to match the volume of perhaps a 80Hz tone, it would confirm that theory. If no change on the volume meter is seen, then we have another theory shot down in flames ;-)
I'm confused! With the Fast 8 rolling off at 200Hz, why would you have the F15 starting at 250Hz? I would have been more inclined to set at say 150Hz, then take measurements even with a simple phone app to see where they are summing and alter so the point where they crossover is flat. Only jumping in at 250Hz you are going to have a lump and likely some cancellation as well.
Sorry, not F15, the W15.
Fast 8 was even from 250hz and up. under this it was dropping hard, like -8db at 160hz and -14db at 120hz and under. Because of the baffles and height they were on (fast 8 do not all do this, depends on the configuration of the baffle. Its in this context. The w15 in this case was used from 30hz to 250hz to fill the missing gap under 250hz which the fast8 in this case was not filling in.
@@hificave ah, apologies, I didn't quite get all that from the video.🙂 I'm planning on the W15 with a crystal 10 shortly.
It's been known that class D has good bass control.
The Crown…
Vs say a PassLabs
Interesting…
30Hz doesn't qualify as the " Best Bass subwoofer" on the market. It would have to go down to as little as single digit Hz.
The term "subwoofer" is often misused. The W-15 is a "bass driver", and the range is higher than a "by design" subwoofer. For me, the real magic is in the "mid" bass. Tight, and it pops. To get below 30Hz, you would need a traditional subwoofer - but with these, I personally, don't hear a need. IMO & YMMV
Agreed. And a driver capable of single digit hz, and performing well in that spectrum in conjunction with the amplification is very easier said then done.
I also have to ask if you are really getting anything near 30Hz at the listening position. With a different driver and a much larger U frame, I get a lot of roll off at 60Hz. Some dsp boost around 45Hz can get me down there but that is it. Sounds great, but nothing below 40.