I FIXED slapchop. Here's how!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2024
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In this video I talk about slapchop and how it takes just a little step to make it so much better
try it if you don't believe me :(
Don't be mean, I'll tell my mum :(
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I love to paint miniatures for your warhammer 40k, age of sigmar and & d&d games. How to speedpaint Taus Space Marines, Blood Angels, Salamanders, Stormcast Eternals, beastclaw raiders, 75 mm scale models and miniature busts! How to paint warhammer, how to paint D&D figures. WARHAMMER QUEST CURSED CITY. - บันเทิง
Another idea for dealing with the issue caused by black primer was from a video Artis Opus made a while back where he showed the merits of using a relevant colour instead of black as the basecoat. He did a slapchop style bloodthirster this way with a deep red basecoat, and it came out wonderful
What is the lesson? Prime gray, drybrush white, then use contrast/speedpaint? It seems like that part of the video took no time compared to the time it took to talk about why standard slapchop is bad.
Ive been using the grissaile/slapchop/underpainting method just to map out where some of the brighter highlights would fall.
Also instead of black I use dark purples/greens/blues as a base.
That helped me a lot as a beginner painter.
Your results speak for themselves. Great job and i may try that method. Thanks!
Always love your vids!
Something I did a few years ago to practice brush control and technique was; use dark inks on a primed miniature to black line recesses and then switch to a white ink to practice edge highlighting. This creates an underpaint that even if it is a bit off, you can easily tidy up and will go well under a slightly transparent base coat layer. So not just dry-brush for slap chop, you can use this method to practice as well. If you get something so wrong it can't be fixed? No problem, you can just basecoat over it later anyway.
Why I mention it here is that you could selectively go back with a fine brush and apply inks into recesses on your slap chop model, where you think it does need to be darker, where the contrast paint isn't quite doing it for you and because they are inks you can easily have a damp brush on standby to feather out or remove any mistakes you make.
Yes that works, but the whole point of slap chop is that its quick and easy, having to manually create recesses kinda fails on that first one. Hell if we doing that, might aswell just prime, gray, do a nuln oil wash then a white dry brush. Would be probs a similar result.
What a great observation! Thank you for sharing this, looking forward to giving slap chop another try.
Try Splash Dash by No 6 Minis: prime white (or grey), add a wash, possibly reapply white (or grey) for brighter highlights, then use contrast paints.
This is what I’ve been meaning to try! Prime white, wash thin black (so it’s more gray) drybrysh white.
Lol didn't realised anyone named it yet. What i did was i primed my models gray, a dark purple wash, drybrush white and then a skin tone contrast. It was beautiful .
I have had similar results, priming grey, washing black, then drybrushing white. It is a very clean result
I found the same, although i prefer a light brown prime and white drybrush. Ideally using a cool or warm midtone depending what result you want.
Love this approach. Question: could doing a dark/shadow wash over the top of the new approach work well to re-emphasize some of the dark areas?
yes, it would but also darken down your miniature. Id suggest to use a wash on selected areas instead of the whole mini
That’s it! That’s why my zenithal aren’t working, I’ve just been using black and white. Thank you, this is one of those Eureka moments my painting needed
Funny just a month ago I realized the same think you point at. Tried to be fast with mini furniture painting and realized that black is not necessary and went for gray spray primer and then white zenithal highlight und then contrast. But I think Goobertown Hobbies also stated that the mini should be lighter. You are the only one though to actually question the black undercoat. I agree with you, gray should be enough, especially because only the purest white will leave enough light for the transparent to keep it's saturation. So slap chop is rather seen to be a techniques for mid tone + shadows and not how many claim "shadows + highlight" and even for that you most of the time need at least a gray.
i think the main prblem is people leave black on the model or there model is way too dark before applying contrast, the model should be black in the deepest recesses and mainly grey and white. the model being brighter allows you to thin the contrast to make it smoother, and to apply multiple layers to increase saturation
In addition, it is probably nice to mention that if the undercoat is not grey, but a complementary color to the color you are slapping, you will get much richer results. For example, Juan Hidalgo showed that using purple/pink underneath, drybrushing grey and then white on top, finally the yellow contrast, it will turn out to be an excellent warm yellow.
I tried the Vince Offer slap chop method, but it damaged too many minis 😢
Wow. The mini looks better, and it requires less steps. Thanks a lot.
i find a dark grey automotive plastics primer works well, as a base when building up the grey scale from dark to light prior to your speedpaint application
Yeah my most successful Slapchop minis were achieved via a black wash over a grey miniature, before the final drybrushing, not pure grey drybrushing over black. Good tip!.
What would happen if you'd prime over a complementary color like yellow over red with white highlights?
I've been using coloured undercoats. E.g. deep blue for tomb kings looks amazing
I do multiple layers or grey and white dry brushing, and then i layer paint over the speedpaint.
...I have not used any of these, but I wonder if mixing in a small amount of whatever color contrast paint is being used for the main coat into the grey primer coat would help at all? Instead of a grey surface, it would be tinted with the contrast paint color slightly...then apply the contrast main coat as usual
I was always trying to work starting with grey primer. Black always seemed wrong.
I think the biggest problem with slapchop is the greyscale underpainting, especially using black as the base. I suspect dark coloured primer and desaturated colour drybrush might work better; blue for most circumstances, other colours for simulating particular environments.
This was interesting! I will test myself over Grey Seer because I do see the same problem you showed on top of black primer.
Awesome Video!!! I'm gonna try using a darker grey then the white and see if that makes a difference. I too have been just doing white when slapping but I will test it out with a darker grey on a model soon
Add oil paints and there it is, a depth and a contrast to push up every detail.
Oh this is a neat video. I figured what you said out kinda intuitively, but I fixed it by just spending way way way .... way much more time on the grey drybrush stage until only the recesses were black. Then I applied a white drybrush but only going from top to bottom with the brush strokes to only catch upper edges where possible. I also didn't use sub assemblies so a lot of the drybrushing was with a tiny brush to get into all the nooks and crannies haha. I was already thinking that it might be faster to go with a lighter primer and just apply a wash first or such but I never made much progress in improving it. :D Your solution might just be the "goldilocks" way haha :D
Do an opposite color (dark red for green etc) light grey airbrush zenithal, white highlight. Also offsetting towards the base colour (like red orange, for a mars base) and ivory white for the zenithal. Simulating reflective light from the ground, neutral base then warm sunlight in this case.
Add first ink layer, do light white drybrush, then add second ink layer. Can do it with stippling not just airbrush. I then do the details and panel line in black or an appropriate colour. These were orks so vdark brown/red on the skin and paynes grey for the clothes.
Rhe upgrade to this is always basing with a colour, i test each scheme first with various colours. Colour basecoat, white/off white zenithal or drybrush and speed paints, army ready super fast.
I airbrush a zenithal from a coloured basecoat rather than black/grey - I'd use a deep pink or magenta base for yellow. I then just slapchop white on the very edges and ink/contrast.
Merci pour la vidéo
i have been using gray primer with white dry brush with much better results. However sometimes depending on the mini I may prime in black then a heavy gray & white dry brush. Again, depends on the mini.
"The mistake that makes your minis looks like graffiti art after a caffeine overdose"
Me: *looks at my coffee mug... looks at the graffiti cans I use as primer* That's literally how I paint 😮😢
Btw, instead of black and gray I use a dark and a light color, usually graffiti spray paint. Dark purple and light yellow work fine. Then proceed as usual with a white drybrushing.
This way you get all of the benefits minus the desaturation & the problem of pure black. If I really want those dark shadows I might do a black wash before drybrushing.
Another idea i would like to say is to use a different base color than black, kinda like how to paint yellow easier, is to prime the thing in magenta, then drybrush white then yellow contrast. However, i will do more research which base color is better for which color
Maybe work out which colour you need to mix to your contrast paint to get the exact shadow color / shade you want, and use that for the initial zenthial darker prime? Eg purple to turn a yellow to brown.
Love the longer over 10 min videos!
Long live the long
Cool 🎨🖌
i like orange, or fluo magenta as shadow on yellow, i would prime a dark orange or magenta fluo then drybrush the colour i really want
To save others having to sit through the 8 minutes of waffle necessary to pad the video for monetisation purposes, the fix is ""Use a grey primer instead of black when doing slapchop"."
Heroes are everywhere these days lol. The choice of yellow as a example to use in a video set off a alarm for me.
Ive been using German Panzer Grey primer from Vallejo. A warm grey drybrush, the brightest white I have for drybrushing key highlights and leading edges. I'm happy with results using this method.
Anything from the last two years including a variant of "I fix Slapchop" in the title, is gonna be clickbait. The clickbait is further intesified when the self proclaimed hero of Slapchop is also just a very average painter
Wish I'd saw your comment earlier. Honestly i thought the secret was going to be using a darker version of your primary colour but nah use grey like yeah mate already completed it
@Jatc93 too much effort was put in to constantly/ needlessly switching cameras rather than just getting to the point
I double tap to fast forward every time i see her face.
Just don't use black as your primer. But dont' use grey either: use color. Deep red or brown for warm colors, purple for blue, dark green for lighter green...and then go ahead and do grey AND white drybrushing (yes, do both: it IS noticeable, you just have to control the application).
Great video. But I would add that you can have great results by using a more appropriate base color instead of black. Like for the yellow a brown would work well. It also works well for reds and oranges. For blues you use a dark blue or purple. Then on top of all that I would say is using an airbrush instead of a brush. It doesn't need to be done with a high grade one either. A cheap airbrush even with a cordless compressor can do well enough for these parts.
Yo no uso el negro, ni siquiera el gris. suelo usar marrones claros y me va muy bien. prueva un rakart flesh o un xv88 como imprimacion antes del pincel seco de blanco. depende de que contrast vayas a poner encima mayoritariamente.
very new to mini painting but after a few slapchop models I immediately was coming to the same conclusions as you did! The black makes things too dark and can give an almost "comic book" art look
Yep. This is exactly why I don't use that drybrush-on-black and then contrast paints method. It never looks good.
Try slap chop over non neutral color. Had luck with red for example.
I had this exact issue with yellow; it looked like I colored newspaper.
I have to admit I never understood why people work from black with slap chop. As she said "no transparent paint will cover black, black always will be black" and if you look into the real world, you will see that colored materials never become black...
So I normally start with a 50% grey, apply a light grey drybrush, then a white drybrush. If it's a hero model I even go in with pure white and paint specific parts even more white (areas I want to have bright colors like lights, gems etc.).
Then I take a dark grey (anthrazid/german grey) and paint all the metallic parts with it.
After that I apply the contrast/speed paints on the white areas, the metallic paints on the black and done. :)
Cool👍
I use Vallejo Panzer Grey as Primer for Slapchopping, as I found out by accident that it matches the darkest shadow below my desk. lol
The problem with "slapchop " originally known as grisaille is that it's an actual artistic painting technique where the positioning of light and shadows matters.
It has been marketed as noob friendly when it's really not since the problem with a lot of mini painters is that they don't work cleanly/thoroughly as in there are mold lines remaining, the base coats are not even, dry brush method is not good,...
Byron on Artis Opus keeps talking about the learning curve, easy to use but hard to master.
I prefer seeing a simple but clean mini painted with only basecoats because then you can work your way up and add shadows and edge highlights because if you make a mistake you can correct it with the basecoat whereas with slapchop it'll be way harder to correct.
The other thing is it's used by people who think painting *is a complete chore*, it gets models 'good enough' to be on the tabletop which is something even this person mentions at the start of the video. Like the kind of people who are going to use it most are the kind of people who a literally batch painting their way through an army or who see the painting as a 'means to an end'...aka people like me. I'm not going to edge highlight a batch of 20 Ork boyz or 20 Imperial Guard or even a full squad of 10 marines, bugger that, does it look decent enough to avoid getting the '-10 points for an unpainted army' penalty? Yes, fuck it, we ballin'.
Honestly I'm only painting these to get them to a tabletop standard which is minimum 3 colors and they look good from like 2-3 *feet* away. I think this is something a lot of people who exclusively paint but don't play forget. You're not going to be looking at these models in a close up instagram picture, these are going to be seen from a tabletops worth of distance, at which point all those fine details that you spend hours on, are largely going to be a blur.
The only time you'd want to focus a little more is if you're doing a big centerpiece model. Now don't get me wrong, everyone can engage in the hobby however they feel and there's such a wide diversity within the hobby itself from painting for competitions, dioramas, kitbashing, list building, competitive play etc.
4:48 comparison shows exact differences in gradient as well as edge highlight difference. I don't know, it probably depends on the color applied to model in a later steps. I bet Greens, Blues and Reds will have visible difference, but something to think and test for me personally.
Yeah also IIRC you're mean to try the white drybrushing as a highlight step aka focusing it *towards the top of the model*, you're not meant to slather it all over and cover up the greys.
Mold lines are to minis what white head pimples on the face are to people
especially for me going way too hard trying to remove them damaging my skin i mean the mini
good
I've started to use the complementary colour to whatever my main colour is, you get a much more saturated shadow. I was inspired by Roman Lappat - th-cam.com/video/ZooBeLSljCQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bxlv3Mg90qBxhrly
Why even use black or gray as main color? You can have cold shadows with blue primer or warm with pink primer then drybrush pure white, miniature will have more color interest and temperature variety.
In all honesty for yellow i would base in pink then drybrush white over.
Me who just primed my minis black before watching this while they dry...
shit...
Hot take - your basecoat shouldn't be black, it should be a dark version of the colour you want to end up with.
Skip to 8:09 for solution
Yea guess I did that wrong boy making videos is so hard when you are a dumbie dumb :(
@@ataraxiapainting on another note... its a nice solution. thank you. Im still waiting for someone to colored slap chop like going from brown to wraithbone, or using pink to give yellow contrast paints a nice shadow
My favourite painter 💚💚💚
Also, that's a bit fucky cheeky, you do a comparrison model to one you literally JUST slapped one color over to one you've painted all the details on to make this 'revolutionary method' look a lot fucking better than it is...if you're doing to do a side by side, do both the same.
Isn’t the point about slapchop to be a super quick method for people who don’t want to invest time in painting…
Exactly that. Also contrast paints were meant to go onto a white base coat. In my opinion you get th best results in a short time (otherwise what's the point?) if youstart with a white base coat with a wash on top, highlight back to pure white, then apply speedpaints, job done.
The finished product at the end of the video is equally "meh" as the original. It's washed out and missing contrast, though it could be that yellow is just the wrong color to use as the example. Undercoat in a relevant color and then drybrush to prep for slapchop.
Every time I see people do the traditional slapchop, I wanted to scream at them. The black undercoat thing looks so bad. Also, the contrast can pool up in recesses like washes do, and while on a light basecoat that'd make dark recesses, on a dark basecoat, it can make lighter recesses. It's horrid.
I don't know if you have the time but I would like to see a video where you paint a model from start to finish with very little or no editing Preferably not slap shot😁 please
Another quality Squidmar thumbnail.
Yes!!! S tier baby
I rather think you are full of it. In order to get your "terrible" finish on the traditional Slap Chop method, you are using a watered down version of the yellow. It is patently obvious that the figure you paint with your version of slap chop has the full strength version of the contrast paint applied. Further, my eye may deceive me, but it looks to me like there is a glaze of orange on your "improved" paint job which obviously adds to the finish. In the bad figure you have not even covered the whole model in the yellow leaving that grey peaking out at the knee joints, the back of the helmet and so on. You have taken a fairly arrogant attitude over other content creators with regards to this method which was not broken to be fixed by you. You do you and I am sure others will do their thing, but it is pretty low brow to intimate the Honest War Gamer is being deceitful.
Nope I did not use a different dilution for the yellow and I haven’t added any orange of made any changes to improve the other one. The point wasn’t saying that the method isn’t valid but that imho this way you shorten the steps and get better results, so it’s a win win for people who want to get model painted fast. I really don’t see why you should be mad about this.:. Again I think people in the comments also have some imput to improve more the technique by not using a grey bc but a properly choosen color to do the db on. I look forward to test that. And bro chill, i don’t think im better than nobody just because i use TH-cam friendly titles. I merely try to give my input to this community!
@@ataraxiapainting Again I disagree with your original premise. Just freeze that picture comparison of the two yellow figures. On the one on the right side, the paint job is complete, along with the weapon, the stones and the face plate, none of which are coloured in on the model on the left. Secondly the coat on the right hand model clearly has orange tint on the crest of the helmet, the right sided leading breast plate, the right thigh and the wrist guard on the left hand. So if you have not glazed it your photography skewed it. By comparison, the coat on the left model is very very thin, and as I noted significant parts of the model were not coloured at all. Further no other part of the model was painted in, such as the face plate, weapon and so on. I still regard the paint job as one manufactured to support your argument. Further the comparison between the two is a match between apples and oranges as they say, because you completed the better one and didn't even complete a single coat over the other. I guess the rest of it comes down to artistic taste and preference. But that is not a reason for claiming superiority, just a reason for presenting options.
P.S. The time stamp for that picture comparison was 8:56.
@@ataraxiapainting As an added fillip, I know my limitations and paint my armies for gaming. I think they look OK on the board but would be happy to send a picture or two just for you to return fire if you wish. I just don't belong to Instagram and I have been locked out of my Facebook page for years. I have two examples, an Eldar army in metallics and a Death Guard army in contrast. I was experimenting with contrast when it was released and I think you can see the change as I go from Pox Walkers to the Bloat Drones. I don't use slap chop but to do use under shading, funnily enough with dark grey. Anyway next time maybe.
By the way. You as much as many other content creators never seemed to get the message from GW about the purpose of Contrast and its translucent properties. It was developed with the GW gamer in mind who is so uninterested in painting they will show up at a tournament with a tide of grey. The Contrast was designed to allow these guys to go three colours in without hours of shading or glazing. It doesn't stop the talented ones such as yourself from experimenting and developing, but you were not the first target of this paint range. And see how other companies realised the potential for that market.
10 minute video to say use a grey primer instead of black?
She did explain why and give examples to be fair. You could also just skip to the end.
Your gray is too close in value to your white. You need to start with a darker gray if you want a better transition. Also those artist opus brushes are too stiff, no clue why people are so into them.
Great advice but this video was way longer then it should have been. I get that you want to crack the 10 minute mark but please respect the time of your viewers and don't try to stretch a video with foreshadowing and unnecessary teasing.
Another slapchop/post-slapchop/Improving-slapchop technique clickbait video. C'mon guys - there is a million better things to make videos about. I think I've unsubscribed from at least 10 painting channels in the last few months because everyone tries to go with a mainstream overdiscussed topic instead of doing something fun and new. At least you haven't spammed the shit out of this with dozens of videos so it's all good, but hopefully you won't go further inside the "slapchop" rabbit hole, lol.
In my opinion you get best results using speedpaints overa white basecoats as the makers intended. At least then the saturation is correct.