I saw a video a while back of a white woman chilling with the Himba tribe in Africa and she came out dressed like them as a Himba woman and they were roasting her, just poking fun and she got so sad and started to cry. One of Himba sister signal " Why are you crying". I realized the connection right then there even though I couldn't understand the language. I picked up on what they were doing because.. My family does it. People like to embellish the misconception about black Americans being disconnected from Africa but it's not true alot of things our ancestors did and our cousins still do in Africa are still with us and survived over the centuries. I'm glad videos like this highlight those connections.
Oh my gosh we play this game in South Africa too! Used to do it in my childhood (even though I was bad at it lol). In Xhosa we call it ukuNcithana. As black people globally, we have so much in common. I am surprised I haven't cried from watching this channel because it is amazing, what connects us.
I was going to comment that I also saw a study on the Khoisan people That participated in a dozens like game After a man went hunting and brought home food everyone in the village would roast him so that he didn’t think he was better than anyone else and remain humble.
Nice to see fellow South african's also watching this channel. There's an account in a history book i once read about a white anthropologist that lived amongst the Khoi and San tribal groups who managed to hunt down an eiland (a large african buck). He proudly brought it to share with the group he was staying with, but when he got to the huts, all of the woman and men started to mock his kill, stating how small and useless it was, how it would barely be able to fill the belly of a child etc. He was confused and as the night went on, actually became quite upset at how every one that ate of the buck came to ridicule him. Until one of the woman saw his sadness and explained to him that it was tradition to mock the hunters that brought great kills, in order to prevent the hunter's ego from growing so large that he would start to believe that he was greater than the village and community that he lived in. Wish I had the reference for you, but Khoi/San documentation is scarce on the internet
I saw that video too and mentioned it. It was a great video. It also seemed to me like it was the most important reason it was done, and so I think that South Africa was probably where it originated from. Blessings to South Africa from Chicago.
I read the book "Affluence without Abundance", which focuses on the ǃKung people of Namibia. They too insulted the food gatherer to keep him humble. Is that it?
The dozens is called Extempo in Trinidad and Tobago and is still done today as a competition between two people verbally battling in time to music. A scholar called Dr Hollis Liverpool researched this and wrote about it in his book “Rituals of Power & Rebellion”. He has also proved the connection to Africa.
Notice that alot of the African precedents have rules for how it should be engaged. Which is why I don't agree with American comedians acting as though "jokes" can be made about anything. A basic spirit of respect and actual relationships should be the basis of good humor.
America has it's own culture built & developed from life's experiences here, not in Africa. So why Black Americans somehow managed to maintain some resembles of traditions & customs connected to Africa our unique & very different experiences in America will cause some differences in how we participate in those traditions & customs.
@@BegodeEx30 Alaekeh now America and Ala means land and eke means God and full meaning it's God land, uto Mezhiko now Mexico and uto means cult same as the modern igbo word Otu nzuzo means cult, Alaekeh~olmec, Maya, Aztec, ala Undia aria now India, ouwarre is made up of Europe, Africa, Asian minor and India respectively stop living a life with an ignorants in this earth, you have no single culture you all cultures it's ouwarre now Africa culture H.g Welles done on a very good on you Aturu now good day.
@@BegodeEx30 I agree. Sadly, we lost a lot of our history from the transatlantic slave trade. Consequently, when we use certain rituals of the dozens without its original context, sometimes it goes too far.People’s feelings get hurt and they respond aggressively.
@@chukwumaolisehemekaouwarre3236 Answer this you super smart ignorant one; Are customs, beliefs, way of life, politics, etc. the same in every town, state, country, nation? Africa itself has over 50+ countries, is life, customs, beliefs, politics, way of life carried out exactly the same on the continent alone much less all over the world? Assuming you have enough brain cells to answer that question correctly then you know that jibberish you shared in an attempt to seem smart make you look just the opposite. Life in America for Black people is far different from life in Africa for Black people. This is just a fact of life. I didn't say one was better or worse than the other, just different. And due to those differences we will have some differences in how we do even those things we have in common or similar to each other.
I grew up in NY and I aint know it was an African thing until much later. We just called it "cutting ass" and if it wasn't rhyme based, it relied on rhythm or repetition of a refrain. The practice of "reading" goes beyond exaggerated aspersions though; and "shade" is aimed at making a more concealed performance.
We got so many ways of "throwing" shade, it's hilarious. It could be a slight look, voice tone or physical movement, and if the person is'nt up on it, they can miss it completely!!!!LOL
In South Africa we would have battles of "Roasting" each other and they were epic and very funny🤣. In my language we called it " Ho Lanza" that's in Sesotho. Today it's a dying tradition, kids have smart phones now.
I'm from Kansas City, KS and growing up in the 70's & 80's we called it "crowing" we would in a groups of about 5-7 people. Usually two people would start on each other, but if you were part of the crowd and were laughing you could get it too. 😆 If someone got clowned hard they usually took the easy route and said something about the one cat in the group that couldn't "crow" to redeem themselves. Every now and then the quiet non crowing cat said something funny and everyone would be "Rollin". That's how you got people up off of you 😆😆😆😆. We used to have lunch table at school "hot"!!!! In High school the Assistant Principal used to join in with us 😆😆😆. We called him Sugar Bear cuz' he looked like the Bear on the cereal box! 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
I'm from Cameroon. And we did this at school when we were kids. We didn't have a name for it as far as I know but you always had kids who would challenge another to it and they would do it for fun to see who is the best.
@@debbiemarquis3231 YES!!! I don’t I’ve ever seen the word “fatigue” (in this context) written or in text before. I literally laughed out loud when I saw your response 😂
I'm from the rural south and we " roast " each other all the time in my family even the old heads do it. We just joke and clown. We don't have a name for it. We just do it and been doing it. We do it around family members the most and close friends to the family.
Yeah I remember we called it "cracking on somebody" where I come from. But when you get into that territory about talkin about moms. You better watch out because things are about to get real serious.
Wowowow. I am from the Barranquilla, Colombia, along the caribbean coast of South America. And we do that all the time in our normal humor and comedy!!!! It was my favorite break activity with my classmate friends in high school
The Hausa of Nigeria too have this play called GAMBARA. They are like some sort of musicians who give people laughter. They come in a pair and they haul insults, obscenities etc at each other while playing their musical instruments making the audience laugh. The dozens is definitely one of those manifestations of the origins of the African American.
I'm sure every Kenyan child has experienced the dozens in the form that we know it as...kuchongoana or mchongoano. Also, black LGBT people can strongly identify with shading from Black American Ballroom culture
In Trinidad and Tobago there is the singing insult battle known as "extempo" (derived from French word "extempore" meaning impromptu speech) which is itself a type of "Calypso" singing art form with African roots th-cam.com/video/23eejrJobIA/w-d-xo.html
Where I'm from in the Caribbean..we call it "Fatigues".. You are taught this from a child.. because you have to give as much as you will get . Tough for it up.....
I’m from Indianapolis, and it’s called “Jonin” around here. I thinking jonin is just human nature, BUT it being a very big part of the culture, is unique to AA culture. We damn near jone every day, almost all day.
Is not likely, it is. I am of the Ewe and Ga-adangbe tribe. We have this as a game. What you guys call “your mamma” well insulting each jokingly, however the end game is to hurt someone feelings till they cry. Or it is physically visible that their feelings are hurt. The winner simply walk away. Or you simply accept that your vocabulary is not good enough or we are all not perfect and hence if anyone look good enough they will find disparaging things to say about you or a love one.
We don't call it The Dozens but the general idea is very common in the UK and Ireland and is very much seen as a bonding thing you only do with your friends. White Americans tend to find it confusing and get a little worried about it. I could definitely see it being an influence from Black culture though.
My grandfather told us that his ancestors did not use profanity, they did something like the dozens. One was for fun and one was serious. He noticed that people don't PUT curses on people anymore, they just learned to use European profanity. Anyway, we loved to hear the old folks signify. They were better than we were because they would use a heavier vocabulary which always made us run to the dictionary and then use it when we went to school. Also, Bo Diddley made a couple of songs you might like: th-cam.com/video/bZKhzTfXIZo/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/TZTsM3VphXY/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/45ZdKCFFR3I/w-d-xo.html And Oscar Brown Jr. th-cam.com/video/ftY7g07zsZE/w-d-xo.html Thanks for the memories.
You could also read Henry Louis Gates 1988 book The Signifying Monkey which similarly traces the AA culture signifyin' to Africa traditions. Signifyin uses more semiotic devices for indirect invectives. The book is the product of his PhD research in Cambridge in the 70s.
Yes sir we exercise this joyful way of roasting one another daily it does get personal but it's the way of life accepting positive feedback I find it fascinating that we share this similarity nothing wrong with getting a needed laugh our culture is unforgettable...
Mad respect. Deeply intuitive and well-studied socialogical essay on the phenomenon. The deeper and more present question in my mind is..... How does Nick Cannon's "Wildin' Out" fit into and shape the discussion?
Back in high school my classmates would roast each other on an almost daily basis. Their were no official contests. But guys would often find excuses to engage in it for one reason or another. It concluded when one opponent could no longer think up any good comebacks. But sometimes if the initiator landed a good aspersion it would generally get the target to acknowledge defeat. A verbal TKO if you will.
Me and my friends in high school used to always cut-up/roast each other. I had never heard of the dozens at the time but later realized that was effectively what we were doing. Apparently flyting was another similar tradition which really conjures of images of Vikings having a rap battle. I'm not suggesting flyting is related to anything currently since it seems to have faded out slowly over the last 300 or so years.
I agree. This is done in Jamaica and throughout the Caribbean to the point where it is almost a part of everyday conversation. It has resulted in the wit of Jamaican dancehall as well as dancehall clashing...all of which gave rise to American hiphop. In Trinidad it is a true art form and clever puns are highly prized. Soca lyrics are laced with it. I believe it is meant to teach us the power of words to hurt and to train us to keep a cool head when verbally insulted or disrespected. I believe it helped our ancestors get through slavery and civil rights and still helps us to combat every day racism and microagressions.Thanks for this insight.
Hip hop was birthed out of R&B, disco, jazz, funk, and soul NOT Dancehall. Dancehall, Ska and reggae was actually birthed out of R&B and Black American radio jive talk traditions. Please research Roscoe Gordon who actually created the downbeat music that is the foundation these music genres. Here is an interview of Count Matchuki (created Jamaican toasting)by Mark Gorney: Hip To The Jive And Stay Alive: An interview with Count Matchuki (1993) MG: The jive talk that you did - did it just come out of you? CM: “NO. To be honest, what gave me that idea, I was walking late one night about a quarter to three somewhere in Denham Town. And I hear this guy on the radio, some American guy advertising Royal Crown hairdressing. (affecting an American accent) “You see, you’re drying up with this one Johnny , try Royal Crown. When you’re downtown you’re the smartest guy in town when you use Royal Crown and Royal Crown makes you the smartest guy in town.” That deliverance! This guy sound like a machine! A tongue twister! I heard that in 1949 on one of them States stations that was really strong. I hear this guy sing out pon the radio and I just like the sound and I say to myself I think I can do better. “I would like to play some recordings and just jive talk like this guy.” Sir Coxone Dodd “Got the idea to toast from America” th-cam.com/video/PcvWxe42QTM/w-d-xo.html Even though Cool Herc is from Jamaica and is one of many godfathers of hip hop, he is credited for his party only. He did not create any elements of hip hop and he did NOT rap his partner Coke la rock was the MC (also a father of hip hop) and DJ Hollywood is the the father of hip hop rap style. Hip Hop: The Illustrated History of Break Dance, Rap Music and Graffiti; Steven Hager, (1984) pg.45 Cool Herc states: “Jamaican toasting? Naw, Naw. NO CONNECTION there.” “The inspiration for rap is James Brown and the album Hustler’s Convention”
So cool to know so many black folks from around the world has shared similar experiences. I'm smiling as I type this message out. Great point about us as a whole having thick skin dealing with racism throughout history
In Cincinnati, Ohio USA, we call it "capping", "blasting", or "roasting". I know what it's like to cap on somebody, and I know what it's like to get capped on. I will say this, if you can dish it out but can't take it, don't do it. LOL
We use to call it "blazing" you had to have thick skin in my neighborhood it was a way to not let words bother you and it helps in the real world and you could tell how good of friends people are depending on how offensive you could be and the other person laughs
We called it "cracking on you" down in Florida, roasting became a new name in early 2000's. Popping was a thing for the women and now they call it twerking.
This isn't anything for me to explain, I already did... I never created the term so whoever seems shocked or whatever, that's on you if you never heard the term. This is a lesson of learning not trolling
This is very informative. As a Black American, I've seen and experienced this but could never fit in with the crowd or people who do this. I get very offended and that person would say "I'm just playing" or "aww you're too sensitive" or "you're soft". Yeah maybe I am but I seen what they were doing deep down that it was an element of what they truly feel about me (they say the same insulting statement when they are serious with me too which is how I know) , disrespect to my character, dignity, and presence. I see it as a character trait of immaturity. Listening to this gives me insight that maybe they do this from their ancestors and I when I seen people (even adults) joke like that with each other, I remember asking on of them "why do you joke like that with each other?". He replied, "Aww we just do that because that's how we bond". They spoke to each other like they hated each other and wanted a kick out of it. What I now realize is that they are replaying something that their ancestors use to do. Though I believe this, I will be forever personally intolerant to such behavior unless it was one joke every now and then to me. Someone profusely joking vile and insulting to me makes me very annoyed/angry 😠 and I either want to shoo them away or slap them into another location. I will never ever participate or like the dozens, ever (my apologies to anyone who do 😐). I don't take insults likely except if they were my known enemy already.
Africans get upset with Black Americans because we roast them (as well as each other) but it’s literally just a black thing no matter where you are in the diaspora
@@jettblifted that make sense you may had of heard a conglomeration of word to describe things since you said your family come from different parts. Growing up all my life what the common folks know as roasting we called words like geesing, getting on his or her head, even caping and more lol, just never heard that one. I’m 27 South Sac born and raised. 💯🤟🏾
@@zigzag1able Yup! I've heard Cappin' and I think it's similar to Jivin' from back in the 1970s (like why you cap'n or jivin' with me). I've also definitely heard get on they helmet! 🤘🏾💯
I'm not African, or black. Rather I'm Native American. I used to play the Dozens in school. Though where I was going to school when this happened, most of the other students were black. Thank you for this wonderful video about the origins of the game.
I thought that the dozens was low key griot training. Like if you could deliver hard to hear truth and commentary *without* offending people, that you mastered the craft. The best griots and social commentators in our communities do this effortlessly
I saw two guys arguing at a bus station in network like they was gonna fight, then one guy said a yo mama joke that was so funny the crowd just started laughing and the other guy just looked salty and had no comeback and that was the way he won the fight lol
That was dope. I agree with your theory about the connection of the dozens to an African cultural origin and although I can't recall where I have heard about it I had already thought this to be the case before watching your video. Thank you for being so detailed in your analysis.
i personally feel like “yo mama jokes” hold so much weight in the afro community, because we get everything from the mother, the female human is the portal to the physical world. the ultimate disrespect is when your portal to creation is disrespected.
We called it playing the dozens when i was younger. My mother and father told us the origins of it was because some of us was sold by the dozens. If you were a part of that group of dozen something was wrong. So this verbal sparring, throwing of insults naturally got that particular name because getting sold by the dozen would make you cheaper than an individual sale. So imagine this game post slavery got it's name because that's the absolute worst thing you could say to a former slave that he was once a part of that dozen, kikikiki😂😂😂😂 and🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 at the same time bruh
In Brazil this is like a subconscious cultural thing , doesn't have a proper name, everyone do this ofenses when child, but when ppl grow up they get more politicaly involved and feels bad for roasting somebody.
I didn’t know this had been researched either. I grew up in an area of my city that has a majority Hispanic & Black population, and I definitely participated in the dozens. In my experience, this was certainly something unique to the Black community, so I wouldn’t doubt an African origin. I am also a fan of battle rap, and have said for a while I felt like it’s an evolution of the dozens. Great topic and video!
I grew up in the Mississippi Delta (1960's-1980's) in a very diverse town and went to integrated parochial school. We called it Janking but some also knew the term The Dozens. None of the white kids--from trailer park to golf-course community --could keep up. You knew it was over when a kid (usually the white one) dropped a true personal insult: the crowd would moan and then the other kid would step up the insults until tears flowed. We all knew from which culture it came.
@@triggerhappy262plus2 There is no anti-African rhetoric; you’re talking about each other, and there’s no rules for roasting. If you’re so bothered with the African jokes, then I advise you to make Black American(FBA) jokes; there’s a ton of jokes you can say about Black Americans.
![ลองสั่งของจากแอพ temu ถูกจริงหรอ?? ( part : 1/2 ) [โกงไหมครับ ep.89 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RTcZSQTiDZw/mqdefault.jpg)
I saw a video a while back of a white woman chilling with the Himba tribe in Africa and she came out dressed like them as a Himba woman and they were roasting her, just poking fun and she got so sad and started to cry. One of Himba sister signal " Why are you crying". I realized the connection right then there even though I couldn't understand the language. I picked up on what they were doing because.. My family does it. People like to embellish the misconception about black Americans being disconnected from Africa but it's not true alot of things our ancestors did and our cousins still do in Africa are still with us and survived over the centuries. I'm glad videos like this highlight those connections.
Wow, I remember that video.
Oh my gosh we play this game in South Africa too! Used to do it in my childhood (even though I was bad at it lol). In Xhosa we call it ukuNcithana. As black people globally, we have so much in common. I am surprised I haven't cried from watching this channel because it is amazing, what connects us.
AFRICAN ORIGINS...🌍
PEACE from THE VIRGIN ISLANDS ✊✊✊
The historyth-cam.com/video/cPPP7aP_ebU/w-d-xo.html.k.k
We did too in high school Camden high Camden New Jersey in the house
So do coloured people. We call it "Gai" or "Gwarra"
I was going to comment that I also saw a study on the Khoisan people That participated in a dozens like game After a man went hunting and brought home food everyone in the village would roast him so that he didn’t think he was better than anyone else and remain humble.
Nice to see fellow South african's also watching this channel.
There's an account in a history book i once read about a white anthropologist that lived amongst the Khoi and San tribal groups who managed to hunt down an eiland (a large african buck). He proudly brought it to share with the group he was staying with, but when he got to the huts, all of the woman and men started to mock his kill, stating how small and useless it was, how it would barely be able to fill the belly of a child etc. He was confused and as the night went on, actually became quite upset at how every one that ate of the buck came to ridicule him. Until one of the woman saw his sadness and explained to him that it was tradition to mock the hunters that brought great kills, in order to prevent the hunter's ego from growing so large that he would start to believe that he was greater than the village and community that he lived in. Wish I had the reference for you, but Khoi/San documentation is scarce on the internet
I saw that video too and mentioned it. It was a great video. It also seemed to me like it was the most important reason it was done, and so I think that South Africa was probably where it originated from. Blessings to South Africa from Chicago.
I read the book "Affluence without Abundance", which focuses on the ǃKung people of Namibia. They too insulted the food gatherer to keep him humble. Is that it?
I'm glad you brought this up! I too recall this story in my college anthropology course
The dozens is called Extempo in Trinidad and Tobago and is still done today as a competition between two people verbally battling in time to music. A scholar called Dr Hollis Liverpool researched this and wrote about it in his book “Rituals of Power & Rebellion”. He has also proved the connection to Africa.
We call it "giving Fatigue" home.. when I was a child..
@@debbiemarquis3231 Where is your home?
And we call it battle rap in America
YES BRETHREN SO TRUE.
PEACE from THE VIRGIN ISLANDS ✊✊✊
Historyth-cam.com/video/cPPP7aP_ebU/w-d-xo.html.k.
Everyone’s worst fear is hearing “I know you not laughing”
Go from 🤣 to 😕 real quick 💯
Facts on facts 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
LMAO, you already know....
At family reunions I heard this way too many times lol
Roasting should definitely be considered an element of Hip-Hop.
It is. It's part of its stylistic origins
This was a fascinating exploration into one of the most unique customs in our culture. Thank you.
😅🤣😂
Historyth-cam.com/video/cPPP7aP_ebU/w-d-xo.html..k.
I agree
Notice that alot of the African precedents have rules for how it should be engaged. Which is why I don't agree with American comedians acting as though "jokes" can be made about anything. A basic spirit of respect and actual relationships should be the basis of good humor.
America has it's own culture built & developed from life's experiences here, not in Africa. So why Black Americans somehow managed to maintain some resembles of traditions & customs connected to Africa our unique & very different experiences in America will cause some differences in how we participate in those traditions & customs.
@@BegodeEx30 Alaekeh now America and Ala means land and eke means God and full meaning it's God land, uto Mezhiko now Mexico and uto means cult same as the modern igbo word Otu nzuzo means cult, Alaekeh~olmec, Maya, Aztec, ala Undia aria now India, ouwarre is made up of Europe, Africa, Asian minor and India respectively stop living a life with an ignorants in this earth, you have no single culture you all cultures it's ouwarre now Africa culture H.g Welles done on a very good on you Aturu now good day.
@@BegodeEx30 I agree. Sadly, we lost a lot of our history from the transatlantic slave trade. Consequently, when we use certain rituals of the dozens without its original context, sometimes it goes too far.People’s feelings get hurt and they respond aggressively.
@@chukwumaolisehemekaouwarre3236
Answer this you super smart ignorant one; Are customs, beliefs, way of life, politics, etc. the same in every town, state, country, nation?
Africa itself has over 50+ countries, is life, customs, beliefs, politics, way of life carried out exactly the same on the continent alone much less all over the world?
Assuming you have enough brain cells to answer that question correctly then you know that jibberish you shared in an attempt to seem smart make you look just the opposite.
Life in America for Black people is far different from life in Africa for Black people. This is just a fact of life. I didn't say one was better or worse than the other, just different. And due to those differences we will have some differences in how we do even those things we have in common or similar to each other.
@@Topg1 How is it sad, when we then created our own way of life and culture.
I grew up in NY and I aint know it was an African thing until much later. We just called it "cutting ass" and if it wasn't rhyme based, it relied on rhythm or repetition of a refrain. The practice of "reading" goes beyond exaggerated aspersions though; and "shade" is aimed at making a more concealed performance.
Historyth-cam.com/video/cPPP7aP_ebU/w-d-xo.html..k.k
We got so many ways of "throwing" shade, it's hilarious. It could be a slight look, voice tone or physical movement, and if the person is'nt up on it, they can miss it completely!!!!LOL
I throw shade without even knowing it sometimes 😅
In South Africa we would have battles of "Roasting" each other and they were epic and very funny🤣. In my language we called it " Ho Lanza" that's in Sesotho. Today it's a dying tradition, kids have smart phones now.
we still do it every day 24/7 phones got nun to do wit it and we do it thru the phone to lol
Are you serious? Those memes that pop up every 5 minutes with people making fun of people savagely…. That is definitely the updated version. 🤣🤣
Umaphandana
Historyth-cam.com/video/cPPP7aP_ebU/w-d-xo.html..k.
I'm from Kansas City, KS and growing up in the 70's & 80's we called it "crowing" we would in a groups of about 5-7 people. Usually two people would start on each other, but if you were part of the crowd and were laughing you could get it too. 😆 If someone got clowned hard they usually took the easy route and said something about the one cat in the group that couldn't "crow" to redeem themselves. Every now and then the quiet non crowing cat said something funny and everyone would be "Rollin". That's how you got people up off of you 😆😆😆😆. We used to have lunch table at school "hot"!!!! In High school the Assistant Principal used to join in with us 😆😆😆. We called him Sugar Bear cuz' he looked like the Bear on the cereal box! 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
This is definitely significant. Promoting tolerance is a good way of putting it.
Historyth-cam.com/video/cPPP7aP_ebU/w-d-xo.html..k.k
I'm from Cameroon.
And we did this at school when we were kids. We didn't have a name for it as far as I know but you always had kids who would challenge another to it and they would do it for fun to see who is the best.
There’s a very similar practice in places like Trinidad and Tobago (as well as other Eastern Caribbean islands) called picong.
And Fatigue is another name too..
@@debbiemarquis3231 YES!!! I don’t I’ve ever seen the word “fatigue” (in this context) written or in text before. I literally laughed out loud when I saw your response 😂
Historyth-cam.com/video/cPPP7aP_ebU/w-d-xo.html.k.
Kariba>Carribbean, onimah>island learn your authentic Igbo original history good day.
Don't forget extempo calypso singing art form, a type of singing insult battle
th-cam.com/video/23eejrJobIA/w-d-xo.html
Although there are some people who go too far with jokes. Roasting sessions can humble people by a ALOT. 🤣
Historyth-cam.com/video/cPPP7aP_ebU/w-d-xo.html..k.
This is something we do in Jamaica as well. I remember us even in tertiary education institution participating in these type of jokes.
I'm from the rural south and we " roast " each other all the time in my family even the old heads do it. We just joke and clown. We don't have a name for it. We just do it and been doing it. We do it around family members the most and close friends to the family.
We be ribbin on each other all the time lmao
🇿🇼🇿🇼🇿🇼🇿🇼 in Zimbabwe you cant finish school without having experienced this😂😂😂😂😂...... I actually used to host it as a show in High school @ SCA
It has now just evolved into battle rap or know as KUTSVINYIRANA
Yeah I remember we called it "cracking on somebody" where I come from. But when you get into that territory about talkin about moms. You better watch out because things are about to get real serious.
Whoever wanna fight about a momma joke was raised wrong
@@aslaammahdi3244 no they wasn't some people are like you don't know my mom like that so keep your mouth shut up, that's how some people felt.
I don’t play like that with my work friends.
@Smoked Yankee B. Yeah, growing up in the 80's, we used to say "crackin" also, particularly in the NY and Newark areas.
Oh yeah. I sure rite
Wowowow. I am from the Barranquilla, Colombia, along the caribbean coast of South America. And we do that all the time in our normal humor and comedy!!!! It was my favorite break activity with my classmate friends in high school
your videos are always brilliant! thank you so much ☺
Anyone with an African mom knows this all too well 😂
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I've witnessed some legendary roast sessions in HS. You certainly get tough skin getting roasted lol
The Hausa of Nigeria too have this play called GAMBARA. They are like some sort of musicians who give people laughter. They come in a pair and they haul insults, obscenities etc at each other while playing their musical instruments making the audience laugh. The dozens is definitely one of those manifestations of the origins of the African American.
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I'm sure every Kenyan child has experienced the dozens in the form that we know it as...kuchongoana or mchongoano. Also, black LGBT people can strongly identify with shading from Black American Ballroom culture
In Trinidad and Tobago there is the singing insult battle known as "extempo" (derived from French word "extempore" meaning impromptu speech) which is itself a type of "Calypso" singing art form with African roots
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We did it in the UK , my group was Nigerians, Congolese, Ghanaian and Jamaicans. 😂😂 And it was brutal.it would go all day, sometime it's one Vs ten 😂😂
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That's so cool to find out yall did that in the UK too. Makes me happy to see we all are connected in different ways
Where I'm from in the Caribbean..we call it "Fatigues"..
You are taught this from a child.. because you have to give as much as you will get .
Tough for it up.....
Kariba not colonial word Carribbeanth-cam.com/video/cPPP7aP_ebU/w-d-xo.html
I’m from Indianapolis, and it’s called “Jonin” around here. I thinking jonin is just human nature, BUT it being a very big part of the culture, is unique to AA culture. We damn near jone every day, almost all day.
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Big facts souf call it the same lol
In Cincinnati, we call it "capping" or "blasting".
Naptown in here! Salute . Jonin is exactly what we called it.
Stl, that's what we called it.
In East Africa most swahili and coastal tribes love to do this especially towards white people during colonization 😂
In Philly we call it bussing on each other. I am a hypersensitive person, I try not to participate in it.
Yes this one too! bussin or biddin on em
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Is not likely, it is. I am of the Ewe and Ga-adangbe tribe. We have this as a game. What you guys call “your mamma” well insulting each jokingly, however the end game is to hurt someone feelings till they cry. Or it is physically visible that their feelings are hurt. The winner simply walk away. Or you simply accept that your vocabulary is not good enough or we are all not perfect and hence if anyone look good enough they will find disparaging things to say about you or a love one.
Every black community in the world plays the Dozens.
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We don't call it The Dozens but the general idea is very common in the UK and Ireland and is very much seen as a bonding thing you only do with your friends. White Americans tend to find it confusing and get a little worried about it. I could definitely see it being an influence from Black culture though.
My grandfather told us that his ancestors did not use profanity, they did something like the dozens. One was for fun and one was serious. He noticed that people don't PUT curses on people anymore, they just learned to use European profanity.
Anyway, we loved to hear the old folks signify. They were better than we were because they would use a heavier vocabulary which always made us run to the dictionary and then use it when we went to school.
Also, Bo Diddley made a couple of songs you might like:
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th-cam.com/video/TZTsM3VphXY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/45ZdKCFFR3I/w-d-xo.html
And Oscar Brown Jr.
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Thanks for the memories.
Well these ancestors used a lot of profanity when they were signifying th-cam.com/video/IrqDzqgpxNc/w-d-xo.html
round Philly it's called biddin, like "damnnnn, he biddin on you". I definitely see that relationship to battle rap though.
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I agree with the out of Africa theory. I used to call it jacking backing the day in South Carolina
You could also read Henry Louis Gates 1988 book The Signifying Monkey which similarly traces the AA culture signifyin' to Africa traditions. Signifyin uses more semiotic devices for indirect invectives. The book is the product of his PhD research in Cambridge in the 70s.
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In milwaukee we called it ribbing and ranking. My cousins in Memphis call it checking and jonin, you checkin ain it mayne 😂😂😂😂😂
Yes sir we exercise this joyful way of roasting one another daily it does get personal but it's the way of life accepting positive feedback I find it fascinating that we share this similarity nothing wrong with getting a needed laugh our culture is unforgettable...
In DC we called it “Jonin”
Mad respect. Deeply intuitive and well-studied socialogical essay on the phenomenon. The deeper and more present question in my mind is..... How does Nick Cannon's "Wildin' Out" fit into and shape the discussion?
Great connection. 106&Park had a similar segment I believe with freestyles
Here In Los Angeles, we call roasting bagging.
Or shooting
People insulting / "roasting" each other "African"??
It's not only or just African. It's Universal.
We also had this things long time ago before colonialism in rwanda and we called it
Back in high school my classmates would roast each other on an almost daily basis. Their were no official contests. But guys would often find excuses to engage in it for one reason or another. It concluded when one opponent could no longer think up any good comebacks. But sometimes if the initiator landed a good aspersion it would generally get the target to acknowledge defeat. A verbal TKO if you will.
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Me and my friends in high school used to always cut-up/roast each other. I had never heard of the dozens at the time but later realized that was effectively what we were doing.
Apparently flyting was another similar tradition which really conjures of images of Vikings having a rap battle. I'm not suggesting flyting is related to anything currently since it seems to have faded out slowly over the last 300 or so years.
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Grew up in Memphis Tn. I got checked everyday mayn.
I agree. This is done in Jamaica and throughout the Caribbean to the point where it is almost a part of everyday conversation. It has resulted in the wit of Jamaican dancehall as well as dancehall clashing...all of which gave rise to American hiphop. In Trinidad it is a true art form and clever puns are highly prized. Soca lyrics are laced with it. I believe it is meant to teach us the power of words to hurt and to train us to keep a cool head when verbally insulted or disrespected. I believe it helped our ancestors get through slavery and civil rights and still helps us to combat every day racism and microagressions.Thanks for this insight.
great point!!!
Trinidad extempo is a form of singing insults battle, a form of calypso
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Hip hop was birthed out of R&B, disco, jazz, funk, and soul NOT Dancehall. Dancehall, Ska and reggae was actually birthed out of R&B and Black American radio jive talk traditions. Please research Roscoe Gordon who actually created the downbeat music that is the foundation these music genres.
Here is an interview of Count Matchuki (created Jamaican toasting)by Mark Gorney: Hip To The Jive And Stay Alive: An interview with Count Matchuki (1993)
MG: The jive talk that you did - did it just come out of you?
CM: “NO. To be honest, what gave me that idea, I was walking late one night about a quarter to three somewhere in Denham
Town. And I hear this guy on the radio, some American guy advertising Royal Crown hairdressing. (affecting an American accent) “You see, you’re drying up with this one Johnny , try Royal Crown. When you’re downtown you’re the smartest guy in town when you use Royal Crown and Royal Crown makes you the smartest guy in town.” That deliverance! This guy sound like a machine! A tongue twister! I heard that in 1949 on one of them States stations that was really strong. I hear this guy sing out pon the radio and I just like the sound and I say to myself I think I can do better. “I would like to play some recordings and just jive talk like this guy.”
Sir Coxone Dodd “Got the idea to toast from America”
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Even though Cool Herc is from Jamaica and is one of many godfathers of hip hop, he is credited for his party only. He did not create any elements of hip hop and he did NOT rap his partner Coke la rock was the MC (also a father of hip hop) and DJ Hollywood is the the father of hip hop rap style.
Hip Hop: The Illustrated History of Break Dance, Rap Music and Graffiti; Steven Hager, (1984) pg.45
Cool Herc states:
“Jamaican toasting? Naw, Naw. NO CONNECTION there.”
“The inspiration for rap is James Brown and the album Hustler’s Convention”
So cool to know so many black folks from around the world has shared similar experiences. I'm smiling as I type this message out. Great point about us as a whole having thick skin dealing with racism throughout history
Definitely gave a lot of us thick skin
This was done on the bus on the way to school, it was the 'Yo mama' game. It could get brutal but never malicious.
Becomes very different during a Spades game....tables get flipped quick
😂😂😂😂😂😂yup
in Fulani its called sanakuyaagal. Joking between specific clans and specific tribes.
This is definitely significant. Promoting tolerance is a good way of putting it.
I've read that the dozens has west African origins. Also where American street poetry/rap/hip hop stems from.
We called it ribbing in New Orleans
Nothing to be proud of...
We called it “jonin”
We called it "jonin", too. We also called it 'crackin'.
We called it "ranking" on each other. But I always felt that was contemporary terminology.
We call it “checking” where I’m from
I have always hated the dozens! I have seen it as a good reason to fight!
I’m a Cancer. I got into too many fights over this 😆
lol yall forever emotional behinds
In Cincinnati, Ohio USA, we call it "capping", "blasting", or "roasting". I know what it's like to cap on somebody, and I know what it's like to get capped on. I will say this, if you can dish it out but can't take it, don't do it. LOL
We use to call it "blazing" you had to have thick skin in my neighborhood it was a way to not let words bother you and it helps in the real world and you could tell how good of friends people are depending on how offensive you could be and the other person laughs
i am Indian but i love black people and Africans and also you're videos
We called it "cracking on you" down in Florida, roasting became a new name in early 2000's. Popping was a thing for the women and now they call it twerking.
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cracking on you? where in Florida you live? key west?
This isn't anything for me to explain, I already did... I never created the term so whoever seems shocked or whatever, that's on you if you never heard the term. This is a lesson of learning not trolling
@Dark Messiah lol he live in key west. they like rambling about things that dont got nothing to do with nothing down there
The Dozens came from foundational black americans
In Florida we say roasting lol
This is very informative. As a Black American, I've seen and experienced this but could never fit in with the crowd or people who do this. I get very offended and that person would say "I'm just playing" or "aww you're too sensitive" or "you're soft". Yeah maybe I am but I seen what they were doing deep down that it was an element of what they truly feel about me (they say the same insulting statement when they are serious with me too which is how I know) , disrespect to my character, dignity, and presence. I see it as a character trait of immaturity. Listening to this gives me insight that maybe they do this from their ancestors and I when I seen people (even adults) joke like that with each other, I remember asking on of them "why do you joke like that with each other?". He replied, "Aww we just do that because that's how we bond". They spoke to each other like they hated each other and wanted a kick out of it. What I now realize is that they are replaying something that their ancestors use to do. Though I believe this, I will be forever personally intolerant to such behavior unless it was one joke every now and then to me. Someone profusely joking vile and insulting to me makes me very annoyed/angry 😠 and I either want to shoo them away or slap them into another location. I will never ever participate or like the dozens, ever (my apologies to anyone who do 😐). I don't take insults likely except if they were my known enemy already.
In Texas we use to call it "Ranking " "capping" or "flaming" when I was in school. And roasting of course
Africans get upset with Black Americans because we roast them (as well as each other) but it’s literally just a black thing no matter where you are in the diaspora
Shooting the sh*t ! - Sacramento, CA, USA
Hmm I’m from Sac but never heard of it 🤔
Dad's from Arkansas, Mom's from Louisiana, and I'm 29 years old now just what I heard all my life
@@jettblifted that make sense you may had of heard a conglomeration of word to describe things since you said your family come from different parts. Growing up all my life what the common folks know as roasting we called words like geesing, getting on his or her head, even caping and more lol, just never heard that one. I’m 27 South Sac born and raised. 💯🤟🏾
@@zigzag1able Yup! I've heard Cappin' and I think it's similar to Jivin' from back in the 1970s (like why you cap'n or jivin' with me). I've also definitely heard get on they helmet! 🤘🏾💯
It's all a part of the culture no matter where our people are at. The USA, Panama, Jamaica, Japan, the UK and every where else. Thanks for the video 😎
In kenya... i thought it was an urban thing..it's brutal in schools...it's called mchongoano
I'm not African, or black. Rather I'm Native American. I used to play the Dozens in school. Though where I was going to school when this happened, most of the other students were black. Thank you for this wonderful video about the origins of the game.
I thought that the dozens was low key griot training. Like if you could deliver hard to hear truth and commentary *without* offending people, that you mastered the craft. The best griots and social commentators in our communities do this effortlessly
Still my favourite channel. Masterful work.
My friend just to let you know we Lily white people play the dozens as well.
Where in from Dayton, Ohio we call it crackin or roasting, but a hour away in Cincinnati they call it cappin lol.
Bay Area folks also say capping.
@@MrMetro-mt5qv They use to call it "riffin" too lol.
When i was a kid, we used to call it Mchongoano, a sheng word in Nairobi, Kenya.
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I saw two guys arguing at a bus station in network like they was gonna fight, then one guy said a yo mama joke that was so funny the crowd just started laughing and the other guy just looked salty and had no comeback and that was the way he won the fight lol
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You know it!!! cause if he try to hit the winner, he'll be looked at as slow!!!!!LOL Bestter to just walk away!!!
That was dope. I agree with your theory about the connection of the dozens to an African cultural origin and although I can't recall where I have heard about it I had already thought this to be the case before watching your video. Thank you for being so detailed in your analysis.
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Damn when i drove to school by bus in nigeria, my classmates often roasted each other, but uh not so light heartedly
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Thank you so much !
Playing the dozens will get you beat up.
They called it rankin' where I'm from
Real ones know Dormtainment did a doc on this 💪🏽💪🏽
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i personally feel like “yo mama jokes” hold so much weight in the afro community, because we get everything from the mother, the female human is the portal to the physical world. the ultimate disrespect is when your portal to creation is disrespected.
We called it playing the dozens when i was younger. My mother and father told us the origins of it was because some of us was sold by the dozens. If you were a part of that group of dozen something was wrong. So this verbal sparring, throwing of insults naturally got that particular name because getting sold by the dozen would make you cheaper than an individual sale. So imagine this game post slavery got it's name because that's the absolute worst thing you could say to a former slave that he was once a part of that dozen, kikikiki😂😂😂😂 and🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 at the same time bruh
First here ☺️
We called it rippin', ribbing & crackin' (wise-cracking). In the midwest, it was a required survival skill.
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The whole world is Africa.
This knowledge was right on time for Black History Month! Preciate you for sharing this….ol nerdy Steve Urkel “I read big books” lookin boy!
😂😂😂😂😂when I say I love us✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿❤️
In Brazil this is like a subconscious cultural thing , doesn't have a proper name, everyone do this ofenses when child, but when ppl grow up they get more politicaly involved and feels bad for roasting somebody.
I didn’t know this had been researched either. I grew up in an area of my city that has a majority Hispanic & Black population, and I definitely participated in the dozens. In my experience, this was certainly something unique to the Black community, so I wouldn’t doubt an African origin. I am also a fan of battle rap, and have said for a while I felt like it’s an evolution of the dozens. Great topic and video!
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Clever
So this is the origin of my childhood trauma of being roasted to tears 😂😂jk
We call it Rankin in tha 6
3:52 You know the earth is flat right?
I grew up in the Mississippi Delta (1960's-1980's) in a very diverse town and went to integrated parochial school. We called it Janking but some also knew the term The Dozens. None of the white kids--from trailer park to golf-course community --could keep up. You knew it was over when a kid (usually the white one) dropped a true personal insult: the crowd would moan and then the other kid would step up the insults until tears flowed. We all knew from which culture it came.
I've always HATED this "tradition ".
What’s wrong with it? It’s just supposed to be fun, and if you’re not good, then you’re not good 😂.
@@Kreedo1110 I was not good and always found better things to do. Found no benefit out of it whatsoever.
I think I’m fine with it, just when it gets into the anti African rhetoric. But we can’t just assume everyone will follow some amicable format
@@triggerhappy262plus2 There is no anti-African rhetoric; you’re talking about each other, and there’s no rules for roasting. If you’re so bothered with the African jokes, then I advise you to make Black American(FBA) jokes; there’s a ton of jokes you can say about Black Americans.
You hate it because you probably were getting capped on.