He was always a garbage character in my opinion. I'm glad the girls think he's hot, but everything about his character was impossible for me to believe. Just exudes weakness.
@@richardlim767 the author must have given notes saying Varys will be killed. The producers din have the capacity to create an intricate story so they just half assed it.
@@J-Kimble for real, people who say season 8 is the only bad season have no clue. season 6 already started with nonsense and season 7 was the nail in the coffin.
They got Varys mixed up with Baelish. "The greater the risk, the greater the reward" is not Varys. Varys is a survivor who weathers whatever happens while quietly working for 'the realm'. Baelish is the dodgy risktaker.
U mean to say Varys isn't a risktaker at all? They both are! So long as he's a schemer, which he is, it's a huge risk either way! And who says he "weathers whatever happens" - he's been conspiring to make who he believes should sit on the iron throne all this while, even in the books!
@@plisskenetic To quote Varys - "the big fish eat the little fish, and I keep on paddling" - I will also note his refusal to free Ned even though he knew he was innocent, taking part in Tyrion's show trial, and continuing to serve Dany's mad father to stay alive. He stays superficially on the side of whoever is in power. He only went to Essos with Tyrion (despite being pro Targ) because it was riskier to stay. His ethos, whilst scheming, was not the same as Baelish. That's why they were rivals/frenemies.
I can’t tell you how sad and disappointed and angry I STILL am over those 2 ruining the greatest show of all time. They ruined it instead of handing it off
I think there wasn't any option, if dany died the lanisters would still be in control and that wasn't much better, if only Jon grew a pair and decided to take the throne himself
@@anantdwivedi974 his personality would’ve made him a horrible king. His constant righteousness in the show was always controversial. It even got him killed once..
I was always amazed he did not tell Catelyn the secret. That is true dedication to keeping it quite. Talk about making it rougher on yourself and Jon. I guess the logic was the less that know the better.
@@Ace-tu2isthe last person he should’ve told was her. She made rash decisions that got their house nearly exterminated. Ned telling her to keep a secret that he was keeping the heir to the iron throne in winter fell would’ve ended with them all dead
God I hate defending season 8, while 2 is still quick he definitely would have been referring to the ruby Ford (where arya ran away) which was not where Robb was trying to cross (up at the twins). Timing was still probably terrible but not quite as bad as it seemed lmao
@DisLB even still, even force marching two days is ridiculously short. For reference Harold Godwinson force marched from London to York in 4 days for the battle of stamford bridge and marched back in a week, which is about 350km. In GOT the trident is supposed to be closer to 600km from King's Landing.
I don't know why this comment reminded me of something I saw on Reddit. When speaking about the awful writing in the later seasons someone suggested that if the writing was just as bad in the beginning that the Greyjoy fleet would teleport...on land....to KL and free Ned. Ned's neck was half cut off, but he would still survive.
@@Thefictitious_reel the truly masterful work of the writers though really shines here when you realize the hidden subtext of what Jon was saying in this conversation. Yes he tells Varys that he doesn’t want it, however if you really read between the lines and try to discern his hidden meaning… you can tell that he’s actually NEVER wanted it. It’s super subtle because he never comes out and says it but I genuinely believe Jon didn’t want it and he never has.
@@JiveTurkey55 Truly a masterpiece of writing in every sense of the words. Deserving of no less than Dark-Knight-Levels of interpretation to unlock the many dozen hidden and clandestinely posed notions the Writers in their eternal wisdom have hidden as treats, as gems for us to find, above and below the actual lines of text. ...Incidentally and entirely without relation, Roberts life is almost a perfect mirror of the show. One might even call it Foreshadowing.
Varys truly was the only man who genuinely cared for all the people in Westeros and he is honourable. He may have been a master of whisperers on the surface but deep down he just wanted the common folk to be ok. He really was a misunderstood character who really who did serve well even if it meant doing bad things he didn’t want to. Well written.
I was coming here to say the same. Out of every character in the story (other than Jon and Sam) he is the only one who simply wants the realm to be safe.
Nah he just as twisted as rest of them, in books he mutilated most of his 'little birds', it's horrible reading about those scene, i felt disgust towards him more than anything. Well we don't really get his POV scene in book considering he knows so much and GRRM don't like writing much of him and littlefinger pov in fear to revealing too much but i still consider him dark character. Show just made him good who only wanted to serve the realm
This scene would have been amazing if George wrote it. No way Varys says this out in the open. And Jon is honourable but he has always spoken out against his higher ups if they have orders that he did not agree with.
Very true,if he wanted to say this to Jon he probably would call him in chamber and whispering him on the ear,also can't believe that Tyrion betryal Varys,friends for all the time,both in Westeros and Essos,cowardly like that,at least he should tell Varys to run before telling to Daenerys
We should wait for the books then. Varys and his friend Illyrio (the fat guy from season 1) are on team Aegon..Not Jon, who he doesn't know about. Ned wanted to write a letter to Jon when Varys visited him and asked him to bend the knee but he didn't trust him. Whether the Aegon in the books is truly Aegon I don't know but most people speculate he is a blackfyre or something and that Varys is not truly on Dany's side.
@@Vazelakopoulos13 Fingers crossed for Nov 2023 🤞🏾 It'll be heartwarming if there's lines all around the world and the fanbase can return to the characters being themselves and proper development
Season 4 regicide; 4 buffer layers between killer and king, fall guy planted, escape route planned, back up king in waiting, killing king creates more stability and clear advantages for those involved Season 8 regicide; DID YOU POISON THE QUEEN YET? OF COURSE THE SOLDIERS ARE WATCHING. TRY AGAIN TONIGHT. THANK YOU FOR VISITING ME IN MY CHAMBERS IN BROAD DAY LIGHT. BACK TO WRITING MY BETRAYAL LETTER!
Throughout the series, Jon had a strong sense of right and wrong. It was what drove him and what motivated him to act as he did. Then, without warning, Jon goes from a fiercely honourable man to a guy who simply does what Danerys tells him to without question or debate. From King in the North to a bootlicker in record time. It may not be THE most bizarre thing to happen in the final two seasons, but it was certainly one of the most dramatic changes in character.
One of the things Jon grew up believing to be right was you obeyed your sovereign. He considered Dany the true queen of Westeros. I don't think he ever came to terms with his true parentage. In his mind, he was an illegitimate Stark. It had become his core identity. But sure... people who only write troll comments are gonna tell the rest of us what good writing is.
@@urthboundmisfit So... to be clear... because you disagree with my opinion, that makes me a troll? I'd submit your abusive remark says a lot more about you than it does about me... but sure, feel free to be rude if it makes you feel good about yourself.
Season 4 regicide; 4 buffer layers between killer and king, fall guy planted, escape route planned, back up king in waiting, killing king creates more stability and clear advantages for those involved Season 8 regicide; DID YOU POISON THE QUEEN YET? OF COURSE THE SOLDIERS ARE WATCHING. TRY AGAIN TONIGHT. THANK YOU FOR VISITING ME IN MY CHAMBERS IN BROAD DAY LIGHT. BACK TO WRITING MY BETRAYAL LETTER!
I guess Varys was planning to poison Dany. So the child says "she is not eating". Remember the phrase, " The greater the risk, the greater the reward."
That's part of the problem with Season 8. We hear all these Season 1 sayings rehashed and used as a validation for the plot and characters because D&D got too lazy.
Wow. Read Fire and Blood. I am all for not judging based on familial connections but God these people are fucking insane. Targaryen's are one of the more interesting families but they are the bane of their own existence. Paranoia and a hankering for power.
Watching this scene made me realize how all the recurring characters that died at Winterfell like Edd Tollett, Jorah & Lyanna Mormont, Beric Dondarrion, and Theon Greyjoy were really the lucky ones. Dead without having to see the final character assassinations of the rest of the major players.
How badass would it have been if Varys actually said that? Jon snow would look at him in astonishment and Varys would smirk because he knows everything. Damn. Way better than all of season 8 lol
The show was always headed in this direction. What I think was missing more than anything else is the good dialogue to convince us that this had to happen. Rather than feeling natural, everything felt rushed from Season 6 and on.
Agreed. Totally. I'm not mad at the story points season 8 had but I remember feeling rushed. In fact, I felt Dany was secretly the final boss or so by the end of season 3. A bit of a "too good to be true" moment and in no way will people of westeros treat her like that. But yeah, this season just needed some serious breathing room. The Long Night eliminated 1/6 of the seasons worth of dialogue.
@@siran424 ? Khal Drogo killed him and she watched totally different. Now she probably didn’t want him to live after all he’s done to her (no one in their right mind would considering everything he did) but even if she didn’t want him to die, at that point she couldn’t have saved him. Funny how you’re not acknowledging Varys’ treachery though shows how much you know
@@charsenlik296 Khal Drogo killed him because of her and she didn't even attempt to stop it. No matter the reason that's treason, otherwise Varys has valid reasons of his own too and his deeds can't be considered treachery as well.
@@siran424 wtf you mean treason? He wasn’t the king bruh he was an exiled prince and she was a princess she knew if he lived he’d disgrace house targaryen not treason
Someone should have told him, "Fuck what you want! It's not all about you. The throne is not just your birthright, it's your responsibility". And then he should have done the right thing and become king.
jon in the books totally would but maybe when he comes back from the dead he will lack morals and will join his aunt in the massacre of kings landing who knows
Initially he did refuse. Difference is, Aragorn saw what was needed for Gondor and the realm of Men, and did his duty. That was his character arc. Jon Snow says "A dun't wan it" and that's that, until he kills Dany. Now that I type it out, could have been very similar, if Jon didn't keep saying "A dun't wan it" 95% through the season, then just turns around and shanks her (he didn't even get it after that though). There wasn't any wrestling with "maybe I can do a better job" or "maybe Dany isn't the right one". Maybe that's what GRRM was going for, but D&D are 1) hacks who can't tell a good story on their own, and 2) didn't give it nearly the time it deserved.
“She is my Que-“ I would’ve smacked him right there, Jon and his “honor” bruh sometimes I wish a Stark would have a little less northern honor and a bit more southern cunning
Jon never wanted the throne, he never wanted power or for anyone to serve him. All he wanted was a mother's love, legitimacy, acceptance and peace. He got all of it and that's all that mattered.
Truthfully only because plot armor protected him from the myriad of mistakes he made. I mean he was literally killed. Battle of the Bastards. Going to fetch a wright to convince cersei. Better characters were killed (and stayed that way) for less foolish decisions than he made. I mean, look how long it took him to realize the the mad queen was off her rocker.
@@marcustaylor4466 jon already died and melisandre took her back with gods help because he was the promised prince. If you think about it you would know he CAN survive
@@callmekhaleesi that's literally what I'm talking about. He was killed and brought back because he was "the prince that was promised". He made it through many situations that he shouldn't have and that was accepted by fans because of that belief, not because it made sense or fit with the show. Better men than Jon Snow died but Jon "should have" been king only because fans believed a prophecy.
@@marcustaylor4466 he is meant to survive He is the song of ice and fire if you don't know He is the prince who was promised Literally you are acting like a kid
@@marcustaylor4466 "sure. the whole story was built for him to be king but that doesn't matter because MuH PlOt ArMoR!!!" "plot armor" is always such a stupid thing to point out.
A lot of people might not have noticed, but at 2:36 Jon Snow makes a happy micro-expression, as if deep down he wants to sit on the Iron Throne and be the King. For him to immediately maintain a serious posture and for honor to deny it.
Imagine Him as king with tyrion as his hand and Varys as his master of whispers.....then Samwell as maester and Bronn as master of coin, would a force no one could reckon with...
John was always deeply concerned about the plight of ordinary people and how unfairly they were treated. He was to some extent a champion for their human rights and would fight anyone who abused their power over them. He thought Dany thought the same - that she was fighting for the right reasons, and willing to put everything on the line for that….her coming to his rescue with her dragons when he and his men were trapped by the night king’s army of the dead, and her joining her army with his for the battle against them at Winterfell. He didn’t want the throne and was fully supportive of her claim to it. What changed, and handled very badly by the writers because they rushed it in season 8, was the effect on Dany in losing people very close to her, people she loved and trusted, and the North’s ungrateful attitude towards her. Sansa’s relationship in particular showed her they’d never accept her, especially with John’s birthright to the throne. Dany realised conquering and ruling were 2 different things and ruling was less appealing than conquering. When she saw that the Westeros people were very political and fluidly loyal - Varys’ betrayal, Tyrion’s conflicted loyalty to his family, Sansa’s agenda for self governance of the North, etc, and that the people of Westeros would be more in support of John ruling than her, Dany flipped and decided to annihilate Kings Landing as a show of her power. She was heavily influenced by the Dothraki way of doing things, and being too nice in the past has cost her. Her enemies won’t respect nice….but will respect fear if her claim to the throne is contentious. When John saw this side to her, it went against everything he believed in and fought for. And her army, dragon and power made her a threat of tyranny. Also he sensed Dany didn’t trust him anymore and would always question the motive behind his advice. Could they have worked it out? I wanted them to as I loved Dany’s character and don’t believe she was an inherently evil person. But unfortunately John, who would have been a great balancing factor in her life, no longer had romantic interest in her and didn’t want to exert that kind of influence over her. And she would always be second best in the eyes of the people. So, unfortunately, he had to do what he did for the best interests of the people and Bran became king (which I hated) by default because he was the least risky of the other contenders and would therefore bring peace for a while. Of course the whole thing would kick off again when Bran dies because he wouldn’t have an heir. But hey ho, this is the circle of life.
Daenerys is the one who deserved the throne, she conquered it back from the usurpers (lannisters). Daenerys lost a lot by helping the north fight the white walkers, when she could have refused, just like cersei did. So why tf are people insulting her and saying she doesn't deserve the throne?
@@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess Because she's simply a bad ruler, the fact her own people turned on her twice partially displays that. She also turned a chunk of Essos upside down and left it in charge of some idiot she slept with. Jon had to use leadership skills he learned from Ned to garner the respect of his peers while all Dany had to do was buy a super soldier army and have Varys do the leadership work for her. While she wasn't a heartless psychopath like Cersei, she was a self-centered sociopath where ideologies made her more paranoid as the series went on.
@Isa IsaLee Yeah that's true, even though I don't think she deserves the throne she was still easily one of the most entertaining characters in the show
I thought this was finally going to be that big defining moment that made you really respect Vary's for making the right decision for the realm. The writers had other ideas. Tyrion snitching on one of his last remaining true friends didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now. This was a character assassination.
Its sad the direction GOT the later part season of season 5 and season 6 where Jon becomes the man was awesome they really threw gis character arch into the trash.
There is a reference here, to *why* Game of Thrones was written. When Varys says "You will Rule Wisely and Well." That's the description of Aragorn's reign in Lord of the Rings, and in interviews, GRRM has stated that he first had the idea for Game of Thrones when he became annoyed with the ending of Lord of the Rings, in Return of the King where Aragorn is crowned. He has been a ranger for 60 years, rarely stepped foot in the city. What is his tax policy? What does he do about the baby orcs? How can it possibly be enough for a good person to "Rule Wisely and Well" purely by virtue of being a good person? What does Ruling Wisely and Well even *mean*? This is the culmination of GRRM's thesis: Good people don't get to sit on Thrones. And when they do, they don't rule wisely and well. Jon Snow was never going to sit on the Iron Throne. It would be the antithesis of everything the books stood for.
It's a good point but John has always been written trying to do what is right not virtuous. He was torn between duty to nights watch and his brother. Though he did what he thought was right not going to fight in a war an avenge ned stark which is what a virtuous person would do. Rob lost his crown because at 16 he put his lust over sense of what is good for the relam as he was already promised to a free of the crossing. John however kills his own love because it is what good for the I believe he would be a great king because of the way he is written in the books. Though I do love the whole point about what would Aragorn do as king would he even be good at it.
Well Aragorn was leader of the Dunedain. He also fought in multiple wars and knew personally kings and queens. He was mentored by elves and was part of Eldronds court. So I am personally thinking that he would not been that bad in ruling. But yeah, still GRR is partially right but I Aragorn was not a savage who knew nothing about court or how to rule.
He did tell her. He told her when they were having a council meeting on Dragonstone. She was planning on attacking King's Landing during that meeting, and he reminded her of that promise. She responded by talking about destiny and whatnot. I believe it was right before Missandei was behaded, or maybe right after.
The thing is, GRR Martin gave DND some notes for his intended ending, that they had to follow. 3 of which was: Dany goes nuts, Varys dies, and Bran becomes King. I admit, they could have handled things way better, especially since HBO was fully prepared to give them a 10 episode season to finish things off. But these things, among some others, came straight from Martin.
Thing is, these are only “bad” in the context of a rushed hackjob of a final season. Fleshed out over ten episodes, they all could’ve worked even in the bones of this extant script. The episode before this was like three episodes in one taking place over months and a thousand miles, it was ridiculous and tonally nonsensical. Imagine having the reigns on millennial Star Wars and destroying it in its swan song, because you wanted to move on. Wah, cry me a river - 99.99% of humanity will never have the impact and legacy that DnD had in having the reigns to this show and they finished it with zero integrity and zero grace. So fucking sad.
Varys had a good heart, but his good heart failed him. I can respect that. Varys lived for righteousness, but just like Ned Stark, Varys died for good. At least Varys was clever enough to last all seasons, unlike Ned in the first season.
Great actor but you could tell he was really disappointed where season 8 went, look at his facial expressions when the cast reads the script out loud for each other
The Prince That Was Promised, became a FULL time simp in S8. Also lost all his will, determination, and honor. All the character building from S1 to S6(could extend it to S7), was completely killed in S8. And so was all those plot points about him, all that "The Prince That Was Promised" prophecy, was completely neglected.
What happened to the letters varys had already send? Did Bran warp into the ravens to prevent them from finding their destination and lost the letters on purpose or what?
To be fair while Jon would have made a great king it wasn’t where his heart was. However I would have preferred that they not exile him that was cruel considering everything he gave. They are right that a king chosen is better than someone just born into it. Born into it breeds entitlement whereas Bran not being able to have a child plus being able to see the future does make him a good second choice plus like his brother/cousin he is more level headed than others.
@@Sholnufff yes but my point was that I would have preferred had the writer not made that the options in the first place. I understand they didn’t have a choice but the writer did just like I would have preferred he not turn denaryes into a homicidal bitch who turned out to be worse than her father in the end but that’s the way they chose to go with it.
@@GozuTob I did actually and that’s what they agreed on rather than killing him they would exile him but more fool them because that’s actually what he wanted anyways
We can all say what we will about how the actor hated the ending and how bad everything turned out but he was still very committed and professional till the end. Every moment of this shines because of his acting
The great mistake that ruined the season 8 was that they didn't let the story follow the rhythm. They were in so much rush so just to get it over with.
Yeah cersei would win the battle and Crush the northern forces with her 20,000 golden company and then the north will have no army to defend it and then cersei takes control of all of the seven kingdoms including the north What shit do you smoke?
@@coolflames6649 No actually, Jon would attack king's landing with daenery's dragons and army and all of his allies and he'd take the throne without burning everyone and everything alive. Understood now or do I need to break it down for you?
@@gurll8784 Bro what the hell are you saying.... This is like a script from a Disney movie... drogon will never allow jon to ride him.... The unsullied will never follow anyone except daenerys, her dothraki blood riders will leave and choose a new khal for them and that khal will never be jon, dany is the only one who could unite the whole khalasar of dothraki under her command, all jon will have is his 5000 depleted and tired soldiers who will eventually lose their morale when they find out that their queen is dead and that there will be no dothraki or dragons fighting by their side And eventually jon will fall back to the north since dany is dead and then cersei takes the whole country and then marches to the north with her 20,000 fresh golden troops and then she will take all of the seven kingdoms and have jon and sansa's heads on a spike Like I told you, dany is their main strength and power... and all of their strategies rely on her
@@coolflames6649 well fortunately the Starks used Danny , her armies and her Dragon to kill Cercei and then the got rid of Danny- thus they were the winners. Face it they did not kill thousands of people like mentally ill Danny.
@@michaelnkomphela8231 not exactly, the ending was bad, and it wasn't supposed to end that way, but David and Dan had a brain fart and decided it should go that way.
Jon refusing total power is meant to show how strong he is. But when it becomes the only thing he says for what, a season and a half, and the alternative is nothing but treachery and death, and he STILL says it, hen it comes back around to being weakness. Yet the show never even raises this as a possibility. Characters just stop growing unless the plot demands they rapidly change in some way.
Season 8 turned Jon Snow into Jon Simp. But then again, after his resurrection, he seemed to have lost a number of IQ points. Riding out in the middle of an open field during the Battle of the Bastards Telling Cersei he won't stay neutral, the Wight hunt. Yeah my personal head canon is he came back wrong
God Varys was brilliant. If only Jon had listened he could have saved the lives of thousands of innocent people but that is his thing to bare now for the rest of his life. Quite interested to see this supposed new spin off series about him I do hope he carries that guilt with him as a character development as maybe he has become a old gun slinger not wanting to fight anymore.
Agreed, his character had potential to become one of the greatest ever created but the show didnt do him justice. But i do believe he will become one when the rest of Song of Ice and Fire gets published.
Varys was brilliant but this scene definitely did not show it😂Jon had no real reason to listen to Varys in this moment, all Varys was going off of was intuition and ancient sayings of gods flipping coins, up to this point Dany hadn’t done anything remotely drastic enough for Varys to believe she was going to lose her mind. So you really can’t blame Jon for not wanting to commit regicide because somebody was having a bad feeling and had he killed Dany before kings landing there is a good chance he wouldn’t be seeing winter fell, or anything ever again.
Does that imply that wanting to be king makes you unfit? Wanting or not wanting it has no merit in being king. It’s a line that sounds good because it shows he doesn’t have a desire for power. Doesn’t guarantee he’d make a great king.
@Anand R No but in the context of this series it makes him the clearly better choice when compared to the unstable, power hungry, tyrant in the making. Plus when you add it to the rest of his resume he’d clearly be the better ruler. Overall though no wanting or not wanting it doesn’t necessarily matter either way. Someone who wants it may be more driven and give it their all. Someone who doesn’t want it may do what they have to but could be miserable the entire time and burn out over time. But on the flip slide someone who wants it could be a power hungry maniac, and someone who doesn’t could still be a great ruler due to a strong sense of duty. So yeah wanting or not wanting the crown isn’t necessarily better or worse one way or the other.
Sorry, but, season seven was infinitely worse. It set the table for season eight. The writing started to wane in season five. In season six the fan pandering and unexplained character motivations began.
![Arya Encounters Littlefinger [HD]](/img/n.gif)
Jon snow's character throughout the final season was reduced to two lines: "I don't want it" and "my queen"
I dun wan it... I nevah have! You are muh kween!
Muh kween you mean lol
He was always a garbage character in my opinion. I'm glad the girls think he's hot, but everything about his character was impossible for me to believe. Just exudes weakness.
That was fine, the issue was how they villainized Danny after all she has been through
@@jimmyrodriguez5670 jon was the best character until season 8. Then they just ruined it like that
For seven seasons he was subtle , cunning and master of whispers. 8th season he wanted glorious rebellious death
One of the reason why Conleth Hill himself was upset with season 8. The way Season 8 was pave is so random, unnecessary deaths and betrayal.
@@richardlim767 the author must have given notes saying Varys will be killed. The producers din have the capacity to create an intricate story so they just half assed it.
@@Lord_Light007 yea a lot of people were upset how they half assed everything really.
For me the show ended after the first few episodes of season 7.
@@J-Kimble for real, people who say season 8 is the only bad season have no clue. season 6 already started with nonsense and season 7 was the nail in the coffin.
This whole scene sums up jon’s character in s8 ’’I dont want it’’ and ’’she is my Queen’’
U got a point there lol
"Shi is mah Kween"
"He knows nothing."
He already tasted that poontang…….
Though it isn't wrong
The most loyal honourable man in got and you expect him to say that I will be the king actually contradict his character himself
They got Varys mixed up with Baelish. "The greater the risk, the greater the reward" is not Varys. Varys is a survivor who weathers whatever happens while quietly working for 'the realm'. Baelish is the dodgy risktaker.
U mean to say Varys isn't a risktaker at all? They both are! So long as he's a schemer, which he is, it's a huge risk either way! And who says he "weathers whatever happens" - he's been conspiring to make who he believes should sit on the iron throne all this while, even in the books!
@@plisskenetic To quote Varys - "the big fish eat the little fish, and I keep on paddling" - I will also note his refusal to free Ned even though he knew he was innocent, taking part in Tyrion's show trial, and continuing to serve Dany's mad father to stay alive. He stays superficially on the side of whoever is in power. He only went to Essos with Tyrion (despite being pro Targ) because it was riskier to stay. His ethos, whilst scheming, was not the same as Baelish. That's why they were rivals/frenemies.
To be fair though, he had to take the risk here so he could save thousands
I think at this point everything came to a head. It was the pinnacle of choices and he had to act. Seemed like everybody just wanted the bs to be over
Well, other than him saving/protecting Tyrion I guess…
"The greater the risk, the greater the reward" is literally the antithesis of Varys. D&D quite literally forgot who these characters were.
I can’t tell you how sad and disappointed and angry I STILL am over those 2 ruining the greatest show of all time. They ruined it instead of handing it off
It doesn't mean he applied the idea to himself. It just looks like something he would just say to get the information from the kids.
if he want to gain his Queen trust, he has to give a name. Dany is observing everyone now, including Tyrion.
@@cjdayne3033 lol, i just said that in another vid. unbelievable that a series this GOOD was 5hit on so badly.
The fact that he gets burned alive suggests that his risk was great. He was a spymaster for years, with his own agenda. How could that not be risky?
‘Master of Whispers’.....showed less subtlety than Ned Stark
The time for whispering was over at this point.
Yeah, but Varys was a bit more under fire than Nedd... Literally, too!
Your comment Spencer, is BS! Varys HAS always conducted some of his nefarious deeds in the open - ever heard of Olenna?????
@@plisskenetic he never casually advocated for treason out in the open since that would imediatly get him killed. This scene makes no sense.
Lol yes he did. 😂 He traveled all over trying to get houses to help overthrow the crown. DASS TREASON boo
Of all the mistakes Tyrion has made, the one where he told Dany of Varys' plan of betrayal was by far his biggest.
He should've let Stannis kill them all
Showing you can't trust anyone.
I think there wasn't any option, if dany died the lanisters would still be in control and that wasn't much better, if only Jon grew a pair and decided to take the throne himself
@@anantdwivedi974 he wouldn’t have a choice after that, I believe that is his point.
@@anantdwivedi974 his personality would’ve made him a horrible king. His constant righteousness in the show was always controversial. It even got him killed once..
The previous seasons Varys would never be dumb enough to spout a secret like this out in the open and in front of Dany.
It was in front of Tyrion.
@@TheUnseenPath Who was careless enough to tell his buddy Varys after Sansa told him.
@@TheUnseenPath Tyrion was like a mile away and up a cliff. He would not have heard anything. Guess they did it for the scenery
@@jaygold7317 he saw varys scheming against Dany
@@nitinkapoor1369 he saw 2 men walking & talking that's too flimsy to be making allegations of treason
"JON YOU ARE THE ONE TRUE KING WHO SHOULD BE ON THE IRON THRONE." Dumbledore said calmly.
hahaha perfect.
Any man who must say I am the King is no true King
DidyouputyournameintheGobletofFyah
😂😂😂😂😂
Ned is so good at keeping secret that even the spiders don’t know until many years later
you're right. credits also to rhaegar for initiating that secret.
I believe Benjen knew too. Even though they never said he knew, I know he did.
@@karlhonrado6661 And credit to Lyanna for carrying that secret.
I was always amazed he did not tell Catelyn the secret. That is true dedication to keeping it quite. Talk about making it rougher on yourself and Jon. I guess the logic was the less that know the better.
@@Ace-tu2isthe last person he should’ve told was her. She made rash decisions that got their house nearly exterminated. Ned telling her to keep a secret that he was keeping the heir to the iron throne in winter fell would’ve ended with them all dead
“Just crossed the trident they will arrive at kings landing in two days” damn if only robb could March that quickly
God I hate defending season 8, while 2 is still quick he definitely would have been referring to the ruby Ford (where arya ran away) which was not where Robb was trying to cross (up at the twins). Timing was still probably terrible but not quite as bad as it seemed lmao
@DisLB even still, even force marching two days is ridiculously short.
For reference Harold Godwinson force marched from London to York in 4 days for the battle of stamford bridge and marched back in a week, which is about 350km. In GOT the trident is supposed to be closer to 600km from King's Landing.
I don't know why this comment reminded me of something I saw on Reddit. When speaking about the awful writing in the later seasons someone suggested that if the writing was just as bad in the beginning that the Greyjoy fleet would teleport...on land....to KL and free Ned. Ned's neck was half cut off, but he would still survive.
@@janellejulianajoy Only for Ned to die of a falling brick while escaping
@@wolfcrushp ikr grrm said westeros is similar in size to South America you couldn't get anywhere walking around there in 2 days
For those of you who couldn’t tell, Danaerys is actually his queen.
yes, and in case you missed it, Jon didn't wUnT it.
Wait really? Shame the show doesn't remind us about that
Christ man, stop spoiling!
@@Thefictitious_reel the truly masterful work of the writers though really shines here when you realize the hidden subtext of what Jon was saying in this conversation. Yes he tells Varys that he doesn’t want it, however if you really read between the lines and try to discern his hidden meaning… you can tell that he’s actually NEVER wanted it. It’s super subtle because he never comes out and says it but I genuinely believe Jon didn’t want it and he never has.
@@JiveTurkey55 Truly a masterpiece of writing in every sense of the words. Deserving of no less than Dark-Knight-Levels of interpretation to unlock the many dozen hidden and clandestinely posed notions the Writers in their eternal wisdom have hidden as treats, as gems for us to find, above and below the actual lines of text.
...Incidentally and entirely without relation, Roberts life is almost a perfect mirror of the show.
One might even call it Foreshadowing.
"I don't want it"
"That's exactly why you should be the one to have it" - Varys or Tyrion
Jon: She is my Qu...
Varys: Shut up and grow a pair. You're not Ned Stark's bastard, you're a Targaryen.
Still a Stark tho 🐺
Varys truly was the only man who genuinely cared for all the people in Westeros and he is honourable. He may have been a master of whisperers on the surface but deep down he just wanted the common folk to be ok. He really was a misunderstood character who really who did serve well even if it meant doing bad things he didn’t want to. Well written.
I was coming here to say the same. Out of every character in the story (other than Jon and Sam) he is the only one who simply wants the realm to be safe.
I take it you haven’t read the books.
@@lprince1296 #blackfyreconfirmed
Nah he just as twisted as rest of them, in books he mutilated most of his 'little birds', it's horrible reading about those scene, i felt disgust towards him more than anything. Well we don't really get his POV scene in book considering he knows so much and GRRM don't like writing much of him and littlefinger pov in fear to revealing too much but i still consider him dark character. Show just made him good who only wanted to serve the realm
He literally plotted a dothraki invasion of Westeros when the realm was at peace in season 1.
This scene would have been amazing if George wrote it. No way Varys says this out in the open. And Jon is honourable but he has always spoken out against his higher ups if they have orders that he did not agree with.
Very true,if he wanted to say this to Jon he probably would call him in chamber and whispering him on the ear,also can't believe that Tyrion betryal Varys,friends for all the time,both in Westeros and Essos,cowardly like that,at least he should tell Varys to run before telling to Daenerys
We should wait for the books then. Varys and his friend Illyrio (the fat guy from season 1) are on team Aegon..Not Jon, who he doesn't know about. Ned wanted to write a letter to Jon when Varys visited him and asked him to bend the knee but he didn't trust him. Whether the Aegon in the books is truly Aegon I don't know but most people speculate he is a blackfyre or something and that Varys is not truly on Dany's side.
@@Vazelakopoulos13 Fingers crossed for Nov 2023 🤞🏾 It'll be heartwarming if there's lines all around the world and the fanbase can return to the characters being themselves and proper development
@@ThatScythe well
Season 4 regicide; 4 buffer layers between killer and king, fall guy planted, escape route planned, back up king in waiting, killing king creates more stability and clear advantages for those involved
Season 8 regicide; DID YOU POISON THE QUEEN YET? OF COURSE THE SOLDIERS ARE WATCHING. TRY AGAIN TONIGHT. THANK YOU FOR VISITING ME IN MY CHAMBERS IN BROAD DAY LIGHT. BACK TO WRITING MY BETRAYAL LETTER!
Throughout the series, Jon had a strong sense of right and wrong. It was what drove him and what motivated him to act as he did.
Then, without warning, Jon goes from a fiercely honourable man to a guy who simply does what Danerys tells him to without question or debate.
From King in the North to a bootlicker in record time.
It may not be THE most bizarre thing to happen in the final two seasons, but it was certainly one of the most dramatic changes in character.
It was some good pussy, I don't completely blame him
One of the things Jon grew up believing to be right was you obeyed your sovereign. He considered Dany the true queen of Westeros. I don't think he ever came to terms with his true parentage. In his mind, he was an illegitimate Stark. It had become his core identity. But sure... people who only write troll comments are gonna tell the rest of us what good writing is.
@@urthboundmisfit So... to be clear... because you disagree with my opinion, that makes me a troll? I'd submit your abusive remark says a lot more about you than it does about me... but sure, feel free to be rude if it makes you feel good about yourself.
Well-written character assessment
Jon felt Dany was the rightful heir to the throne. I don't see how his behavior is "dishonorable" in that light.
the most secretive character in the entire show meets his fate by committing open treason...great writing
Season 4 regicide; 4 buffer layers between killer and king, fall guy planted, escape route planned, back up king in waiting, killing king creates more stability and clear advantages for those involved
Season 8 regicide; DID YOU POISON THE QUEEN YET? OF COURSE THE SOLDIERS ARE WATCHING. TRY AGAIN TONIGHT. THANK YOU FOR VISITING ME IN MY CHAMBERS IN BROAD DAY LIGHT. BACK TO WRITING MY BETRAYAL LETTER!
Varys would never say these things straight up to Jon, he's the kind of man who works in the shadows without exposing himself and his true intentions.
Harrington and Hill had some of the best hair in the cast, but you'd never know it watching this scene...
So great they never wore helmets in combat
I like how he has his secret meetings in the middle of his office now…
Those that do not desire power are the only ones worthy of it
Albus Dumbledore?
@@rizoskostas nope, Plato
Say that to Robert Baratheon and Aegon II
Ragnar Lothbrok
nice pfp
I guess Varys was planning to poison Dany. So the child says "she is not eating".
Remember the phrase, " The greater the risk, the greater the reward."
would've been better if he kept trying for a few more days.
@@OKANGUVEN99 fr bruh
Duuuh… only now you said it has the penny dropped. Totally missed that!
Veris doesn't keep poison with him as a general rule there's no way he would have done or been able to do that
@@Chammyfan after asking if Daenerys is eating, at the end he tells the girl to go back to the kitchen where she is working
Varys was all like "Wanda, black bolt can destroy you with one whisper from his mouth"
what mouth
😶😶🤯🤯🤯😵😵
Ah the throwback to the old saying about a Targaryen being born, “the gods flip a coin every time a Targaryen is born” very nice
That's part of the problem with Season 8. We hear all these Season 1 sayings rehashed and used as a validation for the plot and characters because D&D got too lazy.
Wow. Read Fire and Blood. I am all for not judging based on familial connections but God these people are fucking insane.
Targaryen's are one of the more interesting families but they are the bane of their own existence. Paranoia and a hankering for power.
@@unc54it could just be a reminder that we were always meant to head in this direction.
How am I JUST NOW noticing that Varys was trying to poison her 🤣😂😂🤣
He admitted to wanting to kill her to Tyrion in a previous episode.
That "rule wisely and well" line is a direct quote from Return of the King, describing Aragorns rule as king.
Nice little Easter egg.
Watching this scene made me realize how all the recurring characters that died at Winterfell like Edd Tollett, Jorah & Lyanna Mormont, Beric Dondarrion, and Theon Greyjoy were really the lucky ones. Dead without having to see the final character assassinations of the rest of the major players.
This man is the only man that was truly loyal to the throne. He’s a true servant
I like how Tyrion probably knows exactly what they're taking about. Even though he's all the way up in that balcony.
same thing i came to say. he looks like he knew that whatever they were talking about it was bad for dany
That's because Tyrion drinks and knows things.
Jon: "I don't want it."
Varys: "You know nothing."
How badass would it have been if Varys actually said that? Jon snow would look at him in astonishment and Varys would smirk because he knows everything. Damn. Way better than all of season 8 lol
Jon always did what was right, until now. He made poor choice after poor choice and the people suffered because he acted too late
Everyone did lol it’s like every character suddenly had a lobotomy
Ahhh the iconic sentences which the 8th season was all about... "AH DUN WANNET" "SHES MA QUEEN"
Years have passed and my heart is still in sorrow
Varys was the best of them and should have been made king. I didn't mind Bran being King at the end. But Varys was a man for the people always.
Well said, though im not sure he has the leadership to be the best king. Hand of the king though? Absolutely!
The show was always headed in this direction. What I think was missing more than anything else is the good dialogue to convince us that this had to happen. Rather than feeling natural, everything felt rushed from Season 6 and on.
Agreed. Totally. I'm not mad at the story points season 8 had but I remember feeling rushed. In fact, I felt Dany was secretly the final boss or so by the end of season 3. A bit of a "too good to be true" moment and in no way will people of westeros treat her like that. But yeah, this season just needed some serious breathing room. The Long Night eliminated 1/6 of the seasons worth of dialogue.
Jon never wanted it but apparently Bran, the kid who isn’t even in the present moment of time, wanted it all along. D&D geniuses.
She is maaaaaa Queen
-Varys:" What have I told you Martha?"
-Batman:" Why did you say that name?!"
Man I felt bad for Varys, he was sincere on his intentions.
he was a traitor who swore to follow Dany, he was probably going to kill Dany with poison or something. He deserved the punishment he got.
@@charsenlik296
Desnerys was a traitor who killed her own brother.
@@siran424 ? Khal Drogo killed him and she watched totally different. Now she probably didn’t want him to live after all he’s done to her (no one in their right mind would considering everything he did) but even if she didn’t want him to die, at that point she couldn’t have saved him. Funny how you’re not acknowledging Varys’ treachery though shows how much you know
@@charsenlik296
Khal Drogo killed him because of her and she didn't even attempt to stop it. No matter the reason that's treason, otherwise Varys has valid reasons of his own too and his deeds can't be considered treachery as well.
@@siran424 wtf you mean treason? He wasn’t the king bruh he was an exiled prince and she was a princess she knew if he lived he’d disgrace house targaryen not treason
Someone should have told him, "Fuck what you want! It's not all about you. The throne is not just your birthright, it's your responsibility". And then he should have done the right thing and become king.
jon in the books totally would but maybe when he comes back from the dead he will lack morals and will join his aunt in the massacre of kings landing who knows
Imagine if Aragorn had just refused to take the crown of Gondor and said to Gandalf "A dun't want it.".
Initially he did refuse. Difference is, Aragorn saw what was needed for Gondor and the realm of Men, and did his duty. That was his character arc. Jon Snow says "A dun't wan it" and that's that, until he kills Dany. Now that I type it out, could have been very similar, if Jon didn't keep saying "A dun't wan it" 95% through the season, then just turns around and shanks her (he didn't even get it after that though). There wasn't any wrestling with "maybe I can do a better job" or "maybe Dany isn't the right one". Maybe that's what GRRM was going for, but D&D are 1) hacks who can't tell a good story on their own, and 2) didn't give it nearly the time it deserved.
Tyrion standing off to the side not doing anything is so on point for this season
Varys never gets the credit for being the only self serving politician whose actual goal is "what is best for the realm". Oh captain, my captain.
When Jon Snow said "she is muh Queen" I got goosebumbs... and then shivers... Then I trembled, bit my lip fell to the ground and had a stroke.
“She is my Que-“ I would’ve smacked him right there, Jon and his “honor” bruh sometimes I wish a Stark would have a little less northern honor and a bit more southern cunning
There's a word for it -- Sansa.
In the books he’s quite cunning and actually has a good sense of humor
@@user-hu8bo3sr9l in the books he's very smart and cunning. But in the show straight up foolish
Jon never wanted the throne, he never wanted power or for anyone to serve him. All he wanted was a mother's love, legitimacy, acceptance and peace. He got all of it and that's all that mattered.
the show ended in such a stupid way, Jon Snow was meant to be the king
Truthfully only because plot armor protected him from the myriad of mistakes he made. I mean he was literally killed. Battle of the Bastards. Going to fetch a wright to convince cersei. Better characters were killed (and stayed that way) for less foolish decisions than he made. I mean, look how long it took him to realize the the mad queen was off her rocker.
@@marcustaylor4466 jon already died and melisandre took her back with gods help because he was the promised prince. If you think about it you would know he CAN survive
@@callmekhaleesi that's literally what I'm talking about. He was killed and brought back because he was "the prince that was promised". He made it through many situations that he shouldn't have and that was accepted by fans because of that belief, not because it made sense or fit with the show. Better men than Jon Snow died but Jon "should have" been king only because fans believed a prophecy.
@@marcustaylor4466 he is meant to survive
He is the song of ice and fire if you don't know
He is the prince who was promised
Literally you are acting like a kid
@@marcustaylor4466 "sure. the whole story was built for him to be king but that doesn't matter because MuH PlOt ArMoR!!!"
"plot armor" is always such a stupid thing to point out.
"She is muh queen" And that is the line that Jon would utter over and over again until the end of the series. Lol.
All Characters stood by rule with honor. It's true reflection Ned Sark's association to his family.
Honor killed half the Starks
@@mmac3670 Right! Why do you think Arya and Sansa kinda sorta jumped ship?
Ned's honor murdered his daughter's pet then blindly got led around by Littlefinger and the Lannister clan until his death.
A lot of people might not have noticed, but at 2:36 Jon Snow makes a happy micro-expression, as if deep down he wants to sit on the Iron Throne and be the King.
For him to immediately maintain a serious posture and for honor to deny it.
They should've never killed Rhaegal. Could you imagine Jon flying back and forth between Dragonstone and Winterfell on dragonback?
They have faster ships 😂😂, that elude the Iron fleet.
Well yeah but would if that happens the same to drogon as well and it’ll be only rhaegal.
„I dun‘ wann it.“ Jon is such a poor man’s Aragorn.
Aragorn (in movies): same blood flows in my veins
Aragorn (in books): i just can't wait to be king!
Imagine Him as king with tyrion as his hand and Varys as his master of whispers.....then Samwell as maester and Bronn as master of coin, would a force no one could reckon with...
Don't forget a dragon
Imagine bronn as king
BRONN??? LMFAOO
A crap show. Burn it all down and start over. Danny had the right idea.
@@DottonTuffin OK you are obviously Trolling 😂
"She's my queeeen!" Murders her! WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO GAME OF THRONES FINAL SEASON!!!
😅😂
Blame on the writers and DandD not Jon snow.
"NEVER TRUST A DWARF!!!".....(Lord Elrond)
I just wanted to see Jon in Targaryen clothes damn it Jon!! :(
God I miss this show 😭😭
John was always deeply concerned about the plight of ordinary people and how unfairly they were treated. He was to some extent a champion for their human rights and would fight anyone who abused their power over them. He thought Dany thought the same - that she was fighting for the right reasons, and willing to put everything on the line for that….her coming to his rescue with her dragons when he and his men were trapped by the night king’s army of the dead, and her joining her army with his for the battle against them at Winterfell. He didn’t want the throne and was fully supportive of her claim to it.
What changed, and handled very badly by the writers because they rushed it in season 8, was the effect on Dany in losing people very close to her, people she loved and trusted, and the North’s ungrateful attitude towards her. Sansa’s relationship in particular showed her they’d never accept her, especially with John’s birthright to the throne. Dany realised conquering and ruling were 2 different things and ruling was less appealing than conquering. When she saw that the Westeros people were very political and fluidly loyal - Varys’ betrayal, Tyrion’s conflicted loyalty to his family, Sansa’s agenda for self governance of the North, etc, and that the people of Westeros would be more in support of John ruling than her, Dany flipped and decided to annihilate Kings Landing as a show of her power. She was heavily influenced by the Dothraki way of doing things, and being too nice in the past has cost her. Her enemies won’t respect nice….but will respect fear if her claim to the throne is contentious. When John saw this side to her, it went against everything he believed in and fought for. And her army, dragon and power made her a threat of tyranny. Also he sensed Dany didn’t trust him anymore and would always question the motive behind his advice. Could they have worked it out? I wanted them to as I loved Dany’s character and don’t believe she was an inherently evil person. But unfortunately John, who would have been a great balancing factor in her life, no longer had romantic interest in her and didn’t want to exert that kind of influence over her. And she would always be second best in the eyes of the people. So, unfortunately, he had to do what he did for the best interests of the people and Bran became king (which I hated) by default because he was the least risky of the other contenders and would therefore bring peace for a while. Of course the whole thing would kick off again when Bran dies because he wouldn’t have an heir. But hey ho, this is the circle of life.
Man i wish it didn't end the way it did wish Jon took the throne
Daenerys is the one who deserved the throne, she conquered it back from the usurpers (lannisters). Daenerys lost a lot by helping the north fight the white walkers, when she could have refused, just like cersei did. So why tf are people insulting her and saying she doesn't deserve the throne?
My beautiful and amazing Princess she went awol and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent ppl. That’s why
@@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess Because she's simply a bad ruler, the fact her own people turned on her twice partially displays that. She also turned a chunk of Essos upside down and left it in charge of some idiot she slept with.
Jon had to use leadership skills he learned from Ned to garner the respect of his peers while all Dany had to do was buy a super soldier army and have Varys do the leadership work for her.
While she wasn't a heartless psychopath like Cersei, she was a self-centered sociopath where ideologies made her more paranoid as the series went on.
The writers didn t know about good payoffs I guess for a fandom following this thing for so long.
@Isa IsaLee Yeah that's true, even though I don't think she deserves the throne she was still easily one of the most entertaining characters in the show
Jon Snow knew nothing and continued to know nothing until his exile.
"Master of Whisperers"
“I don’t want it, I never have.”
“Maximus, that is why it must be you.”
Great parallels in this dialogue to gladiator.
"But only you can be the ringbearer, Frodo."
This scene really tells you more about how poorly D&D understood their characters than it does about whether or not Danny is Jon's Queen.
Varys at the end, thinking: 'Goddamn Northerners and their goddamned sense of honor and pride. How am I supposed to work with that?!'
It’s nice to see all of Varys letters got to the rest of the lords so they could get behind Jon when Dany went nuts.. oh wait….
The lords kinda forgot
He sounded exactly like Ned when he got annoyed and said “What do you want?”
"A great man does not seek to lead, he's called to it, and he answers" sigh i wish Jon answered
I DUN WAN IT.... SHES MUH QUEEN.
Gods the writers really went all out for this one
We deserve seasons 9-12 with season 9 starting with a main character waking up and realizing that season 8 was just a bad dream
All just one of Bran's visions
add season 7 to that
i want a meme with roy keanes face on varys saying: "thats their job!"
I thought this was finally going to be that big defining moment that made you really respect Vary's for making the right decision for the realm. The writers had other ideas. Tyrion snitching on one of his last remaining true friends didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now. This was a character assassination.
tyrion is a villain in the books even grrm said so
Varys is the King
Its sad the direction GOT the later part season of season 5 and season 6 where Jon becomes the man was awesome they really threw gis character arch into the trash.
This has always been his arc u idiot, if u thought he was meant to be some Aragon hero, you totally never understood the show or books!
3:00 "sHe Is MuH qUeN"
There is a reference here, to *why* Game of Thrones was written.
When Varys says "You will Rule Wisely and Well."
That's the description of Aragorn's reign in Lord of the Rings, and in interviews, GRRM has stated that he first had the idea for Game of Thrones when he became annoyed with the ending of Lord of the Rings, in Return of the King where Aragorn is crowned. He has been a ranger for 60 years, rarely stepped foot in the city. What is his tax policy? What does he do about the baby orcs? How can it possibly be enough for a good person to "Rule Wisely and Well" purely by virtue of being a good person? What does Ruling Wisely and Well even *mean*?
This is the culmination of GRRM's thesis: Good people don't get to sit on Thrones. And when they do, they don't rule wisely and well. Jon Snow was never going to sit on the Iron Throne. It would be the antithesis of everything the books stood for.
It's a good point but John has always been written trying to do what is right not virtuous. He was torn between duty to nights watch and his brother. Though he did what he thought was right not going to fight in a war an avenge ned stark which is what a virtuous person would do. Rob lost his crown because at 16 he put his lust over sense of what is good for the relam as he was already promised to a free of the crossing. John however kills his own love because it is what good for the I believe he would be a great king because of the way he is written in the books.
Though I do love the whole point about what would Aragorn do as king would he even be good at it.
Well Aragorn was leader of the Dunedain. He also fought in multiple wars and knew personally kings and queens. He was mentored by elves and was part of Eldronds court. So I am personally thinking that he would not been that bad in ruling.
But yeah, still GRR is partially right but I Aragorn was not a savage who knew nothing about court or how to rule.
Baby orcs? They are made, not born. There are no female orcs.
God I wish we could go back on this scene and start seeing Jon not wanting the iron thrown but knowing he is the best hope for the kingdom
better the brain smh
What happened to his promise to her to tell her how she is failing the people rather than betray her?
He did tell her. He told her when they were having a council meeting on Dragonstone. She was planning on attacking King's Landing during that meeting, and he reminded her of that promise. She responded by talking about destiny and whatnot. I believe it was right before Missandei was behaded, or maybe right after.
The thing is, GRR Martin gave DND some notes for his intended ending, that they had to follow. 3 of which was: Dany goes nuts, Varys dies, and Bran becomes King. I admit, they could have handled things way better, especially since HBO was fully prepared to give them a 10 episode season to finish things off. But these things, among some others, came straight from Martin.
Thing is, these are only “bad” in the context of a rushed hackjob of a final season. Fleshed out over ten episodes, they all could’ve worked even in the bones of this extant script. The episode before this was like three episodes in one taking place over months and a thousand miles, it was ridiculous and tonally nonsensical.
Imagine having the reigns on millennial Star Wars and destroying it in its swan song, because you wanted to move on. Wah, cry me a river - 99.99% of humanity will never have the impact and legacy that DnD had in having the reigns to this show and they finished it with zero integrity and zero grace.
So fucking sad.
Varys had a good heart, but his good heart failed him. I can respect that. Varys lived for righteousness, but just like Ned Stark, Varys died for good. At least Varys was clever enough to last all seasons, unlike Ned in the first season.
The writers failed him. He had nothing to do for two seasons and then they had him plot the most obvious treason in history.
Bcoz ned had a family they had his daughters he had no choice but to surrender but varys was a free man
Conleth Hill is such an underated actor!!
Great actor but you could tell he was really disappointed where season 8 went, look at his facial expressions when the cast reads the script out loud for each other
The Prince That Was Promised, became a FULL time simp in S8.
Also lost all his will, determination, and honor. All the character building from S1 to S6(could extend it to S7), was completely killed in S8. And so was all those plot points about him, all that "The Prince That Was Promised" prophecy, was completely neglected.
I love Jon Snow. My favorite character of GOT.
What happened to the letters varys had already send? Did Bran warp into the ravens to prevent them from finding their destination and lost the letters on purpose or what?
HE SAID IT, HE SAID THE WORDS!
To be fair while Jon would have made a great king it wasn’t where his heart was. However I would have preferred that they not exile him that was cruel considering everything he gave. They are right that a king chosen is better than someone just born into it. Born into it breeds entitlement whereas Bran not being able to have a child plus being able to see the future does make him a good second choice plus like his brother/cousin he is more level headed than others.
Could he really see into the future though?
It was Jon goes to the Watch or outright war and his execution by the Unsullied.
If the war happens, it would of been catastrophic.
@@Sholnufff yes but my point was that I would have preferred had the writer not made that the options in the first place. I understand they didn’t have a choice but the writer did just like I would have preferred he not turn denaryes into a homicidal bitch who turned out to be worse than her father in the end but that’s the way they chose to go with it.
Jon wasn't exiled... you didnt watch last episode.
@@GozuTob I did actually and that’s what they agreed on rather than killing him they would exile him but more fool them because that’s actually what he wanted anyways
We can all say what we will about how the actor hated the ending and how bad everything turned out but he was still very committed and professional till the end. Every moment of this shines because of his acting
The great mistake that ruined the season 8 was that they didn't let the story follow the rhythm. They were in so much rush so just to get it over with.
Very true, and it caused them to miss things and make mistakes.
Totally agree. Pace the same story beats over double the time and honestly the end of the series would be perfect in my view.
Agreed, the story was fine they just didn't pace it properly to let it all sink in.
The spy master flipping his treasonous letter on its back like you would an iPhone when someone walks into the room at the wrong time. Thanks D&D.
If only Varys had succeeded in poisoning Daenerys... everything would end much better than they did.
Yeah cersei would win the battle and
Crush the northern forces with her 20,000 golden company and then the north will have no army to defend it and then cersei takes control of all of the seven kingdoms including the north
What shit do you smoke?
@@coolflames6649 No actually, Jon would attack king's landing with daenery's dragons and army and all of his allies and he'd take the throne without burning everyone and everything alive. Understood now or do I need to break it down for you?
@@gurll8784 Bro what the hell are you saying.... This is like a script from a Disney movie... drogon will never allow jon to ride him.... The unsullied will never follow anyone except daenerys, her dothraki blood riders will leave and choose a new khal for them and that khal will never be jon, dany is the only one who could unite the whole khalasar of dothraki under her command, all jon will have is his 5000 depleted and tired soldiers who will eventually lose their morale when they find out that their queen is dead and that there will be no dothraki or dragons fighting by their side
And eventually jon will fall back to the north since dany is dead and then cersei takes the whole country and then marches to the north with her 20,000 fresh golden troops and then she will take all of the seven kingdoms and have jon and sansa's heads on a spike
Like I told you, dany is their main strength and power... and all of their strategies rely on her
@@coolflames6649 well fortunately the Starks used Danny , her armies and her Dragon to kill Cercei and then the got rid of Danny- thus they were the winners. Face it they did not kill thousands of people like mentally ill Danny.
@@michaelnkomphela8231 not exactly, the ending was bad, and it wasn't supposed to end that way, but David and Dan had a brain fart and decided it should go that way.
I love how they completely bitched Jon and Tyrion’s characters in the this season
The difference here is he was raised by ned though so I don't think that riddle applies
putek na game of thrones minadali yung story...ganda ng story nung nasa book eh.
Jon refusing total power is meant to show how strong he is. But when it becomes the only thing he says for what, a season and a half, and the alternative is nothing but treachery and death, and he STILL says it, hen it comes back around to being weakness. Yet the show never even raises this as a possibility. Characters just stop growing unless the plot demands they rapidly change in some way.
Season 8 turned Jon Snow into Jon Simp. But then again, after his resurrection, he seemed to have lost a number of IQ points. Riding out in the middle of an open field during the Battle of the Bastards Telling Cersei he won't stay neutral, the Wight hunt. Yeah my personal head canon is he came back wrong
0:53 WHY DID YOU DAY THAT NAME!?
He didn't know his secret, he just implied he would make a better ruler.
God Varys was brilliant. If only Jon had listened he could have saved the lives of thousands of innocent people but that is his thing to bare now for the rest of his life. Quite interested to see this supposed new spin off series about him I do hope he carries that guilt with him as a character development as maybe he has become a old gun slinger not wanting to fight anymore.
Agreed, his character had potential to become one of the greatest ever created but the show didnt do him justice. But i do believe he will become one when the rest of Song of Ice and Fire gets published.
@@oifgi is the author really going to finish the series? There has been so many years without much updates...
@@puspita282 I totally hope he does, he makes progress very slowly.
Varys was brilliant but this scene definitely did not show it😂Jon had no real reason to listen to Varys in this moment, all Varys was going off of was intuition and ancient sayings of gods flipping coins, up to this point Dany hadn’t done anything remotely drastic enough for Varys to believe she was going to lose her mind. So you really can’t blame Jon for not wanting to commit regicide because somebody was having a bad feeling and had he killed Dany before kings landing there is a good chance he wouldn’t be seeing winter fell, or anything ever again.
Season 1-7: Varys-the Master of Whispers
Season 8: yo wannuh commit treason
I don't know why so many people disregard him saying "I don't want it, I never have".
It is exactly why he would be a great king.
the complaint mostly stems from that being half his dialogue in the last season
Does that imply that wanting to be king makes you unfit?
Wanting or not wanting it has no merit in being king.
It’s a line that sounds good because it shows he doesn’t have a desire for power. Doesn’t guarantee he’d make a great king.
@Anand R
No but in the context of this series it makes him the clearly better choice when compared to the unstable, power hungry, tyrant in the making.
Plus when you add it to the rest of his resume he’d clearly be the better ruler.
Overall though no wanting or not wanting it doesn’t necessarily matter either way. Someone who wants it may be more driven and give it their all. Someone who doesn’t want it may do what they have to but could be miserable the entire time and burn out over time. But on the flip slide someone who wants it could be a power hungry maniac, and someone who doesn’t could still be a great ruler due to a strong sense of duty. So yeah wanting or not wanting the crown isn’t necessarily better or worse one way or the other.
Not really.
so much potential, hard to believe they screwed it up so badly after 7 great seasons
Sorry, but, season seven was infinitely worse. It set the table for season eight.
The writing started to wane in season five. In season six the fan pandering and unexplained character motivations began.
it started with season 5 and the Sand Snakes