I believe if we were simulating armoured combat I had a good chance of landing my hit. However, we are simulating unarmoured combat. Maybe my arm was already moving and maybe my brain was able to send out the necessary signals to complete my attack before being turned into mist, however, that's the best I could have hoped for: a draw. If I'm lucky, we both lost. I've got no doubts that I was taken out of the fight by that punch and I'm on the floor not getting back up. Further, my body knew even at the time that I didn't want to get hit with that buckler. Check out my right arm coming up as you punch to try to bar/blade so that your punch misses. I fail it though, my arm ends up on the outside of your arm so the punch comes through true. Your hit was very nicely pulled, and it was light enough that my "stop fighting" instincts don't kick in until after I've had a second or two to realise what's happened, so thank you for that. To all those who still doubt despite my own admission that the strike would have hurt me and all the evidence in this video... can I encourage you to PLEASE not test your theory that you'd be okay, as you will end up with a serious injury.
I agree, no clear outcome to our fight, but the question as to if a buckler has the potential to be devastating in a fight, I feel, has been demonstrated.
There is an older Blood and Iron video of one of them punch a mask with one of the Cold Steel bucklers. Granted they used the edge of the buckler, but it folded the mask.
Good video! It is a little funny that there needs to be a demonstration to show that a piece of steel to the face at high speed can be lethal, but such is the internet.
Indeed, this should be a waste of time but slot of people are still suffering from a serious case of never having been punched in the face before and and still labouring under the illusion they are the main character 😂
As a long time martial artist and hem instructor (inc S&B); great vid. But trying to make obvious points to online nay sayers is a thankless task. Of course we demonstrate control and pull our blows in HEMA. However in a 'real fight TM' we wouldn't often get to do a full powered buckler punch. But that's not the point of a buckler strike. Hitting someone with the buckler in the face (or other body targets) is simply going to create opportunities for lethal blows with the sword. Hitting with the boss is nasty, but striking with the edge is a force focus and will do serious damage to bone and muscle. Consider the term 'mustacchio'... Also, love your use of the term 'bromosapien'!
@@brisbaneswords8563 thanks man much appreciated😊 I figured instead of arguing it would give me a chance to make another video and the results were interesting if not conclusive.
i greatly enjoyed watching you punch fruit with a buckler also it was very interesting seeing how effective a buckler can be they should add buckler punch to the next dark souls game XD
Fairly irrelevant point: I really enjoyed your use of the correct term "spatter" instead of "splatter". I'll watch the rest of the video now and male a proper comment soon lol :D
The average male fist weighs about a pound according to Google. You said your shield weighs 1 kilogram and 2 grams, that is 1.002 kilograms or roughly 2.2 pounds, so in total you have around 3.2 pounds or 1.45 kilograms with the shield and fist weight combined. A simple Google search "Can you kill someone with a single punch?" shows many results answering "Yes!". So now we know it is possible to kill someone with a single punch, add 2.2 pounds of steel into the mix and it is a no brainer. The people doubting this are likely just kids who either don't know enough information to argue or are trolling you. If we are talking about armored combat, the question would be what kind of armor, padding, and equipment we would have on. I can't say I know much of anything about HEMA sparring helmets, but from the look of them I'd say that it would be a lot harder to kill someone with a SINGLE punch, but NOT impossible! If we are talking about metal helmets with visor and underneath there is some kind of padding then it would be even harder to kill someone with just a single punch or multiple punches for that matter, but still I don't want to say impossible.
Agreed with all with the addition that while instant death wasn't the point of my video it was to show the forces involve and how that might incapacitate a fighter leading to their death after they loose consciousness. But yeah I think a big and strong enough person with awesome technique and great accuracy would stand to do alot of damage with an armoured punch even in full harness combat. Deffinately a interesting topic, thanks for the input my dude!
Even if its not a kill its a potential fight ender in the comtext of your original short. Your opponent was very off balance and may have been knocked to the ground.
I think most people who have actually fenced with a buckler understand that it's a highly effective bludgeon, though possibly a lot of armchair warriors who'll say otherwise ;)
I appreciate that you make this video, but concluding that you can kill or stun somebody with a free hit from a buckler is not really that helpful of a conclusion. We already know that a square punch on target with power can kill somebody, but these hits should be regarded as elusive in a hand to hand struggle. This is one of the things i try to remind people of wrt the effectiveness of blades and points; the advantage of being able to attack effectively without having to buttress the hit with good power. I feel fairly confident that you could have done a similar number on the coconuts using a gauntlet or a pommel strike for instance as with the buckler, and its not like we're incorporating left hooks into our repertoires. Nay I say; I don't really think the correct reading for a fencing match or a mock fight would be that the buckler can kill unless you've also decided that punching can kill. Again, I stress the added difficulty of needing to deliver your hits with power to be effective. I will concede, however, that not all hits with a sword are guaranteed to be effective either.
@@DctrBread I respectfully disagree and feel you have somehow missed the point of the video while agreeing with my conclusion😂. Showing people who don't know any better that full force punching your sparring partner in the face can have sever consequences is instructive, it may mean they won't do it and prevent avoidable injuries, and so is definitely helpful in it's own way to HEMA practitioners.
@@Sfourtytwo this was a specific video regarding boss first strikes. You are of course correct. More reach more power and precision all round a better option to edge strike for sure
@AtreidesHEMA It's enough of a different that in buhurt duels (the frieldlier fights vs Pro fight rules or group rules) you are allowed to punch with the face/boss but not the edge. In armor, punches with the boss or face can be annoying but they aren't actually harmful typically. Edge shots can and do occasionally cause TKOs. In team fights, shield punches are generally more effective that one handed weapon strikes. In this case "effective" means hitting a man in real armor in a way that helps him go down or become easier to throw.
@@DkGaston yeah I've watched alot of Buhurt and can see the effects. I conclude that in full harness the punches I do may be less than lethal if not just plain negligible. My point was Unarmoured or even in just hema gear they would likely wreck your shit😂
@AtreidesHEMA Armor works way.better than in the movies. Almost nothing we typically do with weapons is "lethal" vs good armor...my point was that the kind of strike you threw is pretty good, but edge strikes are WAY better. I know this from being on both sides of these strikes many times. Mostly hits with the boss can be kind of ignored, but you always have to watch out for edge strikes because a good one can take you out....lots of buhurt fighters who salivate at the chance to TKO a dude with a shield.
Here is an example of a shield boss to the face that actually worked in armor...this is the exception. I was using a borrowed shield and my gountlet wouldn't let me hold it so I could edge strike. This was the third 2 minute round of a pro fight and my opponent was not defending well. I was also very tired and not throwing well but I realized I could hurt him with these strikes and got in several. A few months later he mentioned he was mildly concussed during that fight and having headaches but couldn't remember any hard head hits...I told him to watch this part of this video.. th-cam.com/video/IMKufPGUg8A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7uc1qfnLBkNZNlbv&t=376
I have no doubt a buckler could kill given the right circumstances, hell, i think even a punch could with both parties armored up. I have 0 knowledge in armored combat but i am seasoned in Muay Thai. How ever, there is insanely high chance of a concussive or knock out blow. Which ultimately leads to death as you can no longer defend yourself or fight back with your brain rattled. I'd assume you're as good as dead if you cannot cognitively function during battle in a 1v1.
You assume right and that was the point I was trying to make. KO is as good as dead in a sword fight. Thanks for understanding and keep up the Muay Thai, that's a serious hand to hand system some scary fighters in the scene in Thailand 😁
@jake360flip I've punched and been punched a lot in armor for the last 25 years. Helmets work...no way you can kill someone with a gauntleted fist.to tje faceplate. However...gauntlets are basically improved brass knuckles and I accidentally broke a guys ribs though armor the first.time I tried full punches. We were wrestling on tje ground and he had a hand on my dagger stopping me from being able to "finish him" with it. Punches were legal but don't count (EMP rules) so I got the idea to punch him in the ribs to distract him so I could free my dagger...he yielded as soon as the first punch landed...which I thought was strange. Didn't expect it to hurt that bad compared to tje clubs we hit each other with...but he told me later 2 ribs were completely broken and a third had a small crack. I was shocked. Without protection...armored punched are brutal.
@@DkGaston I appreciate the information. How ever, i still stand by my statement. Someone who is trained and has proper kinetics with their fist will cause absolute destruction with an armoured fist. Armour and the gauntless adds mass. Hitting a solid object that isn't all too padded and sending a lot more kinetic energy to the head. (think like a car not having a crumple zone) Also, you saying you broke ribs with a punch confirms what I'm saying, if you can break ribs through armour. Who's to say you cannot turn off someone's lights with a headshot.
@jake360flip Sure, as long as they aren't wearing a closed face helmet. Whicj is what I said. We punch each other very hard all the time with closed helmets. It can really suck to get hit by someone who has good punches but I've never seen an actual knockout.
I feel like this debate is quite hard or dangerous to prove. In terms of weight of boxing gloves, the heaviest are 16oz or exactly 1lb. The buckler in question is 1.002kg which is slightly over 2 lbs. There has been an actual case of a boxer replacing much of the padding of his gloves with plaster and beating the crap out of another boxer. The other boxer having no head protection got out with cuts and bruises and for the most part, he was fine. These are professional fighters who punch way harder than the average person and are also capable of killing people barehanded with their punches. I'm not saying you can't kill with a buckler, but it's actually pretty unlikely. With blunt weapons like the mace, you have the leverage of a longer weapon with a handle to cause a dent in helmets and possibly fracture skull. If the only leverage you have with a buckler is with your own arm, I feel like you'd need to aim for gaps in a person's armor using the edge of the buckler rather than directly for someone's helmet. This is just my take though.
I don't think a buckler is going to kill through armour, maybe concuss if the guy punching is a beast, that's not me😂 without armour though I'm pretty sure it could kill given a strong enough punch as the steel boss is acting as a knuckle duster. I have yet to test the edge of the buckler and people I speak to reckon that's where the real power strikes are.
Boxing gloves are soft. This is the entire point of a boxing glove - it's padded to allow the boxer to punch full force safely with the glove absorbing some of the blow. Even when they're filled with plaster, that's still a LOT softer than steel. Steel will not only transfer essentially 100% of the force, but the added weight will increase the momentum of the strike. Less than a swung mace, yes, but an awful lot more than a boxing glove filled with plaster. I think I'm probably not understanding your meaning here, I feel like two things are being equated which have very different properties and intended uses. Please do come back and correct me 👍
In the case of Antonio Margarito, the wrist wraps UNDER the gloves were plastered, giving the boxers' wrists much more strength and stability, the boxer was not wearing plaster-filled gloves. In the case of Luis Resto, simply some of the padding had been removed, nothing added, and he brutalised his opponent so severely he suffered life altering wounds. Humans punch hard. We are very good at it. If you're talking about another case please tell me.
For a fucking shield that small you bromosapien 😂 were not powered lifting here most weapons and gear of the medieval period were light as they could get away without sacrificing durability. 1kg for a buckler is very heavy!
Spelling mistake! In harness should say in hardness at 11:10.
I believe if we were simulating armoured combat I had a good chance of landing my hit. However, we are simulating unarmoured combat. Maybe my arm was already moving and maybe my brain was able to send out the necessary signals to complete my attack before being turned into mist, however, that's the best I could have hoped for: a draw. If I'm lucky, we both lost. I've got no doubts that I was taken out of the fight by that punch and I'm on the floor not getting back up.
Further, my body knew even at the time that I didn't want to get hit with that buckler. Check out my right arm coming up as you punch to try to bar/blade so that your punch misses. I fail it though, my arm ends up on the outside of your arm so the punch comes through true.
Your hit was very nicely pulled, and it was light enough that my "stop fighting" instincts don't kick in until after I've had a second or two to realise what's happened, so thank you for that.
To all those who still doubt despite my own admission that the strike would have hurt me and all the evidence in this video... can I encourage you to PLEASE not test your theory that you'd be okay, as you will end up with a serious injury.
I agree, no clear outcome to our fight, but the question as to if a buckler has the potential to be devastating in a fight, I feel, has been demonstrated.
@@AtreidesHEMA that is for sure my friend
There is an older Blood and Iron video of one of them punch a mask with one of the Cold Steel bucklers. Granted they used the edge of the buckler, but it folded the mask.
Cool will need to check that out. Cheers!
Good video! It is a little funny that there needs to be a demonstration to show that a piece of steel to the face at high speed can be lethal, but such is the internet.
Indeed, this should be a waste of time but slot of people are still suffering from a serious case of never having been punched in the face before and and still labouring under the illusion they are the main character 😂
As a long time martial artist and hem instructor (inc S&B); great vid. But trying to make obvious points to online nay sayers is a thankless task.
Of course we demonstrate control and pull our blows in HEMA.
However in a 'real fight TM' we wouldn't often get to do a full powered buckler punch. But that's not the point of a buckler strike. Hitting someone with the buckler in the face (or other body targets) is simply going to create opportunities for lethal blows with the sword.
Hitting with the boss is nasty, but striking with the edge is a force focus and will do serious damage to bone and muscle. Consider the term 'mustacchio'...
Also, love your use of the term 'bromosapien'!
@@brisbaneswords8563 thanks man much appreciated😊 I figured instead of arguing it would give me a chance to make another video and the results were interesting if not conclusive.
i greatly enjoyed watching you punch fruit with a buckler
also it was very interesting seeing how effective a buckler can be
they should add buckler punch to the next dark souls game XD
Thanks man much appreciated😁
Love this! Good work! Arm chair quarterbacks will say whatever..... People often forget that blunt force trauma is just nasty. Ya..... it's a kill.
Cheers my dude much appreciated 😊
Fairly irrelevant point: I really enjoyed your use of the correct term "spatter" instead of "splatter". I'll watch the rest of the video now and male a proper comment soon lol :D
I have many fine words😂 I also say 'allay' as in to allay consern. I had to go and check I hadn't made it up 😂
I was teaching a newbie how to fight in SCA armored combat, he punched me in the face grill with a small center grip shield . took me off my feet.
Thanks for the anecdotal evidence my dude much appreciated 😊
The average male fist weighs about a pound according to Google. You said your shield weighs 1 kilogram and 2 grams, that is 1.002 kilograms or roughly 2.2 pounds, so in total you have around 3.2 pounds or 1.45 kilograms with the shield and fist weight combined. A simple Google search "Can you kill someone with a single punch?" shows many results answering "Yes!". So now we know it is possible to kill someone with a single punch, add 2.2 pounds of steel into the mix and it is a no brainer. The people doubting this are likely just kids who either don't know enough information to argue or are trolling you.
If we are talking about armored combat, the question would be what kind of armor, padding, and equipment we would have on. I can't say I know much of anything about HEMA sparring helmets, but from the look of them I'd say that it would be a lot harder to kill someone with a SINGLE punch, but NOT impossible! If we are talking about metal helmets with visor and underneath there is some kind of padding then it would be even harder to kill someone with just a single punch or multiple punches for that matter, but still I don't want to say impossible.
Agreed with all with the addition that while instant death wasn't the point of my video it was to show the forces involve and how that might incapacitate a fighter leading to their death after they loose consciousness. But yeah I think a big and strong enough person with awesome technique and great accuracy would stand to do alot of damage with an armoured punch even in full harness combat. Deffinately a interesting topic, thanks for the input my dude!
This video is very good, thanks for sharing.
Thanks man you are the first to say so. Much appreciated😊
Even if its not a kill its a potential fight ender in the comtext of your original short. Your opponent was very off balance and may have been knocked to the ground.
I think most people who have actually fenced with a buckler understand that it's a highly effective bludgeon, though possibly a lot of armchair warriors who'll say otherwise ;)
I appreciate that you make this video, but concluding that you can kill or stun somebody with a free hit from a buckler is not really that helpful of a conclusion. We already know that a square punch on target with power can kill somebody, but these hits should be regarded as elusive in a hand to hand struggle. This is one of the things i try to remind people of wrt the effectiveness of blades and points; the advantage of being able to attack effectively without having to buttress the hit with good power. I feel fairly confident that you could have done a similar number on the coconuts using a gauntlet or a pommel strike for instance as with the buckler, and its not like we're incorporating left hooks into our repertoires.
Nay I say; I don't really think the correct reading for a fencing match or a mock fight would be that the buckler can kill unless you've also decided that punching can kill. Again, I stress the added difficulty of needing to deliver your hits with power to be effective. I will concede, however, that not all hits with a sword are guaranteed to be effective either.
@@DctrBread I respectfully disagree and feel you have somehow missed the point of the video while agreeing with my conclusion😂. Showing people who don't know any better that full force punching your sparring partner in the face can have sever consequences is instructive, it may mean they won't do it and prevent avoidable injuries, and so is definitely helpful in it's own way to HEMA practitioners.
@@AtreidesHEMA was the point about why we should pull our punches or about whether or not the buckler hit should be counted as a "kill"?
@@DctrBread first the latter and then the former. Because a buckler strike has the potential to be dangerous, hits with them should be pulled.
fuk-yeah, it cooda kilt him. tho, there's a LOT of variables there!
@@barrysmith1202 that's the point I make at the end of the video
@@AtreidesHEMAright, got it.
Why dont you strike with the edge of the shield, i find that to be much easier and more efficient.
@@Sfourtytwo this was a specific video regarding boss first strikes. You are of course correct. More reach more power and precision all round a better option to edge strike for sure
@AtreidesHEMA It's enough of a different that in buhurt duels (the frieldlier fights vs Pro fight rules or group rules) you are allowed to punch with the face/boss but not the edge. In armor, punches with the boss or face can be annoying but they aren't actually harmful typically. Edge shots can and do occasionally cause TKOs. In team fights, shield punches are generally more effective that one handed weapon strikes. In this case "effective" means hitting a man in real armor in a way that helps him go down or become easier to throw.
@@DkGaston yeah I've watched alot of Buhurt and can see the effects. I conclude that in full harness the punches I do may be less than lethal if not just plain negligible. My point was Unarmoured or even in just hema gear they would likely wreck your shit😂
@AtreidesHEMA Armor works way.better than in the movies. Almost nothing we typically do with weapons is "lethal" vs good armor...my point was that the kind of strike you threw is pretty good, but edge strikes are WAY better. I know this from being on both sides of these strikes many times. Mostly hits with the boss can be kind of ignored, but you always have to watch out for edge strikes because a good one can take you out....lots of buhurt fighters who salivate at the chance to TKO a dude with a shield.
Here is an example of a shield boss to the face that actually worked in armor...this is the exception. I was using a borrowed shield and my gountlet wouldn't let me hold it so I could edge strike. This was the third 2 minute round of a pro fight and my opponent was not defending well. I was also very tired and not throwing well but I realized I could hurt him with these strikes and got in several. A few months later he mentioned he was mildly concussed during that fight and having headaches but couldn't remember any hard head hits...I told him to watch this part of this video.. th-cam.com/video/IMKufPGUg8A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7uc1qfnLBkNZNlbv&t=376
I have no doubt a buckler could kill given the right circumstances, hell, i think even a punch could with both parties armored up.
I have 0 knowledge in armored combat but i am seasoned in Muay Thai. How ever, there is insanely high chance of a concussive or knock out blow. Which ultimately leads to death as you can no longer defend yourself or fight back with your brain rattled.
I'd assume you're as good as dead if you cannot cognitively function during battle in a 1v1.
You assume right and that was the point I was trying to make. KO is as good as dead in a sword fight. Thanks for understanding and keep up the Muay Thai, that's a serious hand to hand system some scary fighters in the scene in Thailand 😁
@jake360flip I've punched and been punched a lot in armor for the last 25 years. Helmets work...no way you can kill someone with a gauntleted fist.to tje faceplate. However...gauntlets are basically improved brass knuckles and I accidentally broke a guys ribs though armor the first.time I tried full punches. We were wrestling on tje ground and he had a hand on my dagger stopping me from being able to "finish him" with it. Punches were legal but don't count (EMP rules) so I got the idea to punch him in the ribs to distract him so I could free my dagger...he yielded as soon as the first punch landed...which I thought was strange. Didn't expect it to hurt that bad compared to tje clubs we hit each other with...but he told me later 2 ribs were completely broken and a third had a small crack. I was shocked. Without protection...armored punched are brutal.
@@DkGaston I appreciate the information. How ever, i still stand by my statement.
Someone who is trained and has proper kinetics with their fist will cause absolute destruction with an armoured fist. Armour and the gauntless adds mass. Hitting a solid object that isn't all too padded and sending a lot more kinetic energy to the head. (think like a car not having a crumple zone)
Also, you saying you broke ribs with a punch confirms what I'm saying, if you can break ribs through armour. Who's to say you cannot turn off someone's lights with a headshot.
@jake360flip Sure, as long as they aren't wearing a closed face helmet. Whicj is what I said. We punch each other very hard all the time with closed helmets. It can really suck to get hit by someone who has good punches but I've never seen an actual knockout.
I feel like this debate is quite hard or dangerous to prove.
In terms of weight of boxing gloves, the heaviest are 16oz or exactly 1lb.
The buckler in question is 1.002kg which is slightly over 2 lbs.
There has been an actual case of a boxer replacing much of the padding of his gloves with plaster and beating the crap out of another boxer. The other boxer having no head protection got out with cuts and bruises and for the most part, he was fine. These are professional fighters who punch way harder than the average person and are also capable of killing people barehanded with their punches.
I'm not saying you can't kill with a buckler, but it's actually pretty unlikely. With blunt weapons like the mace, you have the leverage of a longer weapon with a handle to cause a dent in helmets and possibly fracture skull. If the only leverage you have with a buckler is with your own arm, I feel like you'd need to aim for gaps in a person's armor using the edge of the buckler rather than directly for someone's helmet. This is just my take though.
I don't think a buckler is going to kill through armour, maybe concuss if the guy punching is a beast, that's not me😂 without armour though I'm pretty sure it could kill given a strong enough punch as the steel boss is acting as a knuckle duster.
I have yet to test the edge of the buckler and people I speak to reckon that's where the real power strikes are.
Boxing gloves are soft. This is the entire point of a boxing glove - it's padded to allow the boxer to punch full force safely with the glove absorbing some of the blow. Even when they're filled with plaster, that's still a LOT softer than steel. Steel will not only transfer essentially 100% of the force, but the added weight will increase the momentum of the strike. Less than a swung mace, yes, but an awful lot more than a boxing glove filled with plaster.
I think I'm probably not understanding your meaning here, I feel like two things are being equated which have very different properties and intended uses. Please do come back and correct me 👍
In the case of Antonio Margarito, the wrist wraps UNDER the gloves were plastered, giving the boxers' wrists much more strength and stability, the boxer was not wearing plaster-filled gloves.
In the case of Luis Resto, simply some of the padding had been removed, nothing added, and he brutalised his opponent so severely he suffered life altering wounds.
Humans punch hard. We are very good at it.
If you're talking about another case please tell me.
"1kg, so it"s quite heavy". Hum. Ok.
For a fucking shield that small you bromosapien 😂 were not powered lifting here most weapons and gear of the medieval period were light as they could get away without sacrificing durability. 1kg for a buckler is very heavy!
The average two handed long sword was 1kg to 1.5kg for reference
Well not everything is as thick as you are.
@@AtreidesHEMA I know, i was just jesting lol.
@@krymz1sorry man, thought you were doing the whole "1kg isn't heavy your just a bitch" 😂 lot of smooth brain comments on this one my bad.