Did Nvidia fix the 12VHPWR Cable/Connector?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2023
- Linwell is the Asus cable manufacturing company. In this video Hardware Busters (website and channel linked below) took a trip to their facility to check out the new design. In the video HB shows many methods that would traditionally cause a failure on the older PCI SIG/Nvidia/Intel design, that seem to be somewhat resolved now. Hopefully they implement this on all new cards going forward, but also offer some kind of fix for existing customers.
If you enjoyed the video drop a like and sub for more content. Thank you -KJ
H.B. Original Video : • 12V-2×6 Connector Firs...
Website: hwbusters.com - เกม
Very Interested with the soldering thingy. Great video btw.
Thanks, going to reach out to a few repair companies to see where I can buy the new one.
I appreciate the dedication you have to reporting on all of these updates as they happen. Nvidia, Cablemod and any other company that sold adapters for these cards needs to refund or replace their product. Consumers are not supposed to be the guinea pigs when it comes to new product releases. All of these companies need to admit where they were wrong and then make it right for their customers
Thanks man, It would be nice to see someone step in and get a lawsuit going, Nvidia has so much money at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they just agreed to send them out for updated connectors. It's actually a pretty simple solder job, and could save a lot of future headaches. The melting stuff happens so often now that people are just not reporting on it as much. It's almost a norm according to a few people who deal with repairs I have spoke with.
As always, appreciate the comment.
As a layman pc enthusiasts. I think it's a good bet the supers and onward will have the updated components. Too risky to consider anything prior unless you know exactly what you're looking at.
The problem is no safety margin. The old connectors have almost a 2:1 safety margin. You could put 250 watts through an 8pin (rated 150) and have a higher safety margin. Sure on paper using fist approximation it has a 10% safety margin. However the single locking mechanism and mechanical tolerances on shipped connector isn't enough to maintain design contact level.
I always said they needed some sort of double clip.
Totally agree.
I like your videos because they prompt research and made me find the best peace of mind with this cable yet. Not sure if astron vs NTK is really an older vs newer design but more of a company manufacturing difference as both are different connector manufacturers with both company's terminals being used since the start of the 4090(or at least since the 4080s release but there are articles mentioning NTK connectors on Oct 22). After researching what the seasonic 12vhpwr 2x8pin to 1 connector uses I came across that its terminals are manufactured by molex a design called molex minifit jr. I can't find any spec sheets on the NTK or Astron terminals.
Edit* after finally taking a good pic. It uses two larger eliptical contact pads vs the 2x3 dimple array of Astron or the 4 spring arms of NTK. I cannot find the spec sheets for NTK or Astron but the molex design is from as far back as 2009 ish.
Thanks man, what GPU are you currently using? I feel like I remember you mentioning a 4090 back on the latency video, but I forget.
The msi gaming trio non X 4090 paired with a 13700K on DDR4 4000 cl16 bdie. There was this video put out by Game Day a smaller channel testing ddr4 vs ddr5 on starfield. I believe it was all in win 10 but on ddr4 8c/8t no ecores was the highest fps/highest lows and on DDR5 enabling ecores but with HT off was best fps/lows ratio. Ive been testing in other games and it hold true on DDR4 so far.
Alex from digital foundry screenshot a comment I made about OCing pcs to get better gaming experiences. I spent a month testing configs and gathering data. I stumbled across a way to have statistically perfect frame pacing. A true nearly 1 to 1 output of frames to your monitor. I have to do a lot more testing but I dont mind sharing it. It is just front edge sync an option found in how RTSS frame rate limiter works. You can use it with vsync on or off(and with off have no torn frames + less latency). I think all it really needs is a semi powerful cpu. I was able to get some perfect pacing on my 8700K setup. This does not suppress stutter caused by shader comp or traversal just forces perfect pacing.
More tests I need to run are how well it works at higher refresh rates(maybe 120) because I game at 4K 60fps and after 120fps as long as your frametimes are good the game is smooth and buttery not neccessarily needing perfect pacing anymore. This makes 30fps and 60fps on pc playable and enjoyable. 30fps and 60fps is a very different experience when its 60fps avg, 60fps 1% lows and 60fps 0.1% lows. I used capframeX for the data capture the frame pacing is so consistent the upper bounds of the graphs are 16.673 and 16.66. Works for perfect flawless 30fps as well which I sometimes use for 6K cyberpunk + controller.
*edit: for front edge sync(FES) to work you need to use that second option the scan line sync. With FES on you can move the tear line with that scan line sync number until it is out of your primary field of view and then it looks like vsync on. It can be negative or positive to move the scan line up or down. Sometimes it dsyncs so I play with vsync on but you still need an arbitrary number in that field for FES to engage.
You should definitely make a video on this if you haven't already (1 to 1 FP) I have checked out some of your videos and I can see why you need that perfection..As for DDR4... I am still on it as well (Dom 4000s). I've had plenty of opportunities to swap but, I am pushing it out till it's completely unsupported, or whatever Intel or AMD bring that will make me drop Z790/raptor. Also pardon the delay in response, the YT app for Studio is atrocious. Comments disappear into the either so often.
Hey no worries! Comments totally evaporate sometimes even before my eyes inside the studio lol. I switched back to 60fps on pc because going from 240hz 1080p on pc to 60fps online smash bros is so painful its unreal. Although the pc experience is def better than the switch its at least visually less jarring to go back and forth at 60fps on both.
I say until something like 8000+ gear 1 is stable very easily across all cpus its not worth it but around that speed the latency starts to match DDR4. I like to use my hardware for a while, until about a 2x uplift in all areas is possible, so next cpu for me will probably be whatever platform uses DDR6.
Smash bros situation makes perfect sense honestly. Frame rates in fighting games seem like a pretty important thing to be consistent.
I have a feeling DDR5 platforms won't last as long as DDR4 has, it seems like Vram and Dram are almost a whole generation off. DDR4 just lasted so long, it's actually wild to think about how old z170/x99 is.
When buying aftermarket cables, you want the largest gauge wires they use. The lower the gauge number the thicker the wire. A 16-gauge wire will be thicker and more robust than an 18-gauge wire. The box the cables come in, or the product description, will usually indicate the wire gauge used.
Yeah, I'd recommend the adapter before grabbing a cheap cable as well. Most of them aren't really tested through a long burn in cycle.
Mine is the 15 AWG cable with crimped pins. Custom cable, hand-made. Each wire is tinned copper, rated for 23amps. Should be safe.
@@olega5141 15 awg is a quality cable. Very nice.
@@techwandoUSoh lord, have you seen audiophile cables? I've tried seeing if there's any OFC or silver ATX cables for my audio PC but no dice. None of the psy manufacturers even know what type of brass is in their ATX terminations. Meanwhile my audio equipment has the most immaculate 10awg OCC cables, my PC is literally the bottleneck.
A very small amount of conductive silver bearing grease will go a long way to fix this.
It's an interesting video and I will look at theirs. However the voltage they were running was a bit low at 11.7, when it should be ideally 12+
Also, the wire reached 46c and this is with no gpu to heat it up nor a case. I have conducted thermal testing and the wire reaches 49-52c on the side facing away from the GPU. The side that faces the GPU is 59-64c
I did notice that too after watching this video back. They were slightly out of spec. I mean it is Asus's main manufacturing company, so they will probably be fine, but it would have been nice to see it dead on. Appreciate the comment.
I was an early adopter with cable mod on my 4090, they have records of this you think if they redesigned and knowing that there’s a potential problem that they would either email me, or just mail me out another one with a O try this much better. But I’m not expecting that. You also think there’s a place where I bought it they know what they shipped out. They know who bought them and well in my case anyways that they would reach out and Nvidia would send them the better cables and say reach out to your customers, but that would be proactive and I’m not expecting that Moore the wheel deal with the people that bitch and complain, and the rest is well you’re on your own. In my case, it’s a Asus 4090 and you would think ASus would say hey I’ll take back the card I’ll give you one with a new connecter will do the connecter E and re-and resell the one that we have now on our hands. And then I would bill Nvidia for the whole trouble to begin with
appreciate the update it's a shame this is even a thing.
It took them almost a year to care about it /:
Nice update.
I wish we would see more of these newer designs on the 40 series, but they probably won't come until the 50 series stuff.
@@techwandoUS I just bought an ASUs TUF 4070 ti super. Do you know if ASUS is using the new connectors?
@@freedomearthmoon1 Most likely it just has shorter sense pins but it is not the actual new design. You will have nothing to worry about though with that cards power draw.
@@techwandoUS Thanks, I opened a support ticket with ASUS . I'll follow up.
@@techwandoUS Here is the official response from ASUS. ................
Hello ,
My name is Ramonsito Louis G. and it's my pleasure to help you with your problem.
In regards of your pending escalation with us , Please be informed that the only affected units of the melt issue was the 4090 Cards. The 4070 units was not affected by this so the design that the 4070 use is still the same.
As I've stayed before in probably multiple threads, apologies, but I'm running with a thermaltake core P8 which is a massive case, I mean freaking huge!
And with my 30 80 TI I was still bouncing a high temps off the class.
Still a cool case though 🤘
How's the new card holding up?
@@techwandoUS as of yet, it's doing great. With its notoriety however, I don't ever leave my machine alone for longer than 5 minutes. It takes to go up for a smoke break on the porch.
Been messing around with different games from fallout 4 to cyberpunk to pondering buying DayZ
@@Stormpriest Fallout 4 is very fun to go back to. Have you tried Dishonored 1? I hadn't played it since release like 10+ yrs ago. It holds up so well, and is so strangely innovative for the time.
@@techwandoUS My fallout 4 is... Anything but vanilla lol
On average, I'm running anywhere from 800 to 900 mods. as to dishonored, no, I haven't never played that one
@@Stormpriest that's a lot of mods, damn haha.
I just got a (new) 4090 asus strix oc from amazon november 2023. I'd bet it still has the 12vhpwr plug, but how can i tell for sure? And, is there any way at all to upgrade to the 12v-2x6 if mine is the 12vhpwr?
If you look very close at the sense pins, you will notice they are more recessed vs the older models. It's not easy to spot, but the older models sense pins are quite long.
Changing the connectors requires some soldering skill, heat gun and wouldn't really be worth it unless you ran into an issue. That being said there are many tech channels/repair shops like North Ridge offering these services if it came to that.
So if I'm in the market looking for a 4090, are the vendors going to emphasize that what they're selling includes the updated connector and pins?
I would be doubtful of that, it would be equivalent to admission of guilt from Nvidia. It's been rolled out in secrecy mostly (it feels like). Reviewers, and customers are the ones mentioning the changes.
How can I tell if my card has the updated connector? Strix 4090 OC. ASUS customer service chat wasn’t any help.
So if you have any form of an updated connector it will be the sense pins being slightly shorter, but most likely you do not have the newer one featured in this video.
You can look at the sense pins and see if they are recessed. On the older connector they came out almost to the edge.
@@techwandoUS thank you for replying. I just bought it earlier this week. It seems to me that the sense pins are recessed on mine.
Yes cool idea! I buy a graphic card for around TWO-THOUSAND US-$ and the first thing to do is ripping off the power connector and solder a ali express connector on it.
SHAME on NVIDEA and all the other graphic card manufactures!
It's not necessarily an "ali express connector" the manufacturers use many of the same exact products as they sell. The idea is to find the latest design and swap it out. I have worked in SMT for years so it's not a hard process, obviously not recommended for most people.
Obviously Nvidia* should be handling this, but they won't.
Can somebody start a class action suit here in Canada? I paid $3600 for this video card and mine gets the ridiculous temperatures. I have to basically back off all the time at the connecter I mean and I was an early adopter with cable mod and it’s helping I don’t know if it is all I know is I’m constantly touching it just to fill out hot it is and when I feel that it’s hard enough I back off I stop when I’m doing.
Personally I run mine at 90% power target, it's unfortunate we have to dial it back but I think it's the only way to save it long term.
What model do you have?
Also I am not entirely sure about class action from CAN vs US but they are a private company and you did purchase something from them. There have been a few people that have tried, I looked up prior lawsuits and one was filed in 2022 but went nowhere. Their lawyers are probably crazy, and then having the Gamers Nexus video calling all issues user error, it's hard to create a good case...
UNLESS Cablemod steps in because they are losing customers and money from their adapter issues.
Bottom line. If you have a lot of failures due to user error even after warning then you have a design failure. These shouldn't be rated above 350 watt's. That would give them a similar safety margin to standard 6&9 pin connectors. With a better latching mechanism and the new adjustments to pin lengths I could see maybe 400watts. Frankly they should up the wires and connectors one gauge and have latching clips on BOTH sides.
Just lost my RTX 4090 ASUS TUF after 1 year, bought it on day 1.. it makes no sense. Really annoying. Getting 1 reply per day via email, useless. Always kept it pushed in and checked on it every 2 weeks or so. Haven't touched the PC in months so it's not like I moved it. No bends, no gravity pushing it. Vertical mount GPU and the PSU cables go straight into the NVIDIA adapter at a nice straight angle.
Damn. I am sorry to hear that. Just running the stock cable too? That is a scenario I haven't heard since the first few months. No OC or anything?
@@techwandoUS Luckily I just received a proper email with not only a DHL return link but also 2 options: a full refund of the original price (1950 EUR) or a replacement. Money is obviously the choice here, you can buy a Strix for that money or even a watercooled MSI card (Suprim?) or a cheaper one from 1650 EUR and save some money + fresh warranty + whatever new modifications they've made to these cards since launch.
I did OC the card. Used it around 450 watts to 500 watts for a year. Never had any issues. I also used it with stock and undervolted settings. A mix, depending on the game. It also died while being undervolted in Battlefield 2042's new Season 6 release. Stock PSU cable and the stock NVIDIA adapter that came with the GPU box.
@@mcgmgc Definitely go with the money, id do the same. Glad to see they are making it right at least. If you had the 90° adapter from CM you might have been out of luck.
It seems like this still happens once a week. I bet it will continue until all the early Rev. 1 models are just gone or replaced. They definitely know about it, I just wish there was some transparency about it from Nvidia.
@@techwandoUS Yeah I am guessing something is wrong with these older models. I'll send it back today and see what happens. They said they have to inspect it but I know it's not a user error as I made sure this damn thing was plugged it properly every time.
No, they didn't replace or update the PWR 12-pin connector, once you have a few million examples out in the market it's nonprofitable to recall them all and reflow a new 12-pin connector on them and send them back. Though Nvidia should do that. The RTX 4090-s are still melting / dying on the VRM-s side due to improperly build 12-pin design and PWR design. Around 80 % of them are melting their own 12-pin connectors and around 50 % have to RMA-d due to melting death of the PWR circuitry.
No they didn't " in reference to what part of the video?
Also your saying 80% of 4090s are melting?
@@techwandoUS Nvidia didn't recall or replace any 12-pin PWR connector. The only existing v1 is residing on every single 4090 on the planet earth :).
Yes, approximately 80 % of the 4090-s sold up until now have been either RMA-d, replaced with a new card, repaired the melting 12-pin or repaired in various shops on the 12-pin PWR connector or the VRM-s side.
@@lflyr6287 Yes, the new connector hasn't been officially implemented, they only decreased the length of the sense pins and made some very minor changes. It's a garbage connector forever at this point, they need to start over engineering or go back to 8 pins. De8auers recent video told quite a story.
As for the percentage of melted cards being 80%, care to share sources?
I have spoken with quite a few repair shops, and although they all have gotten quite a few cards, the 80% number would be pretty insane. The government would go after them at 50%.
@@techwandoUS The goverment ain't gonna do nothing because Nvidia is completely a private owned company. Only a joint lawsuit from consumers against Nvidia would be an option....which isn't gonna happen sadly.
As far as the numbers of burnt 4090-s go....I work in the PC industry and I have access to data from behind the consumers scenes. That's as much as I can tell you, sorry.
"The FTC enforces federal consumer protection laws that prevent fraud, deception and unfair business practices". At even 50% they would end up in a Microsoft situation where they would be forced to recall all the products. Doesn't matter if you are privately owned you can still be told what to do. There's a reason the 4090D exists lol.
As for your job and the source information.
Ok.
I havent had any problems with my 7900 xtx. +D
Haha ❤️
no, it will never work properly.