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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- These measurements will show why infinite baffle and 6.5s in the kicks don't play very well together.
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More testing, more experiments, more fun!
I run a main sub 12" in the boot then a small underseat pioneer to liven up the midbass as its a sealed sub that plays quite high so i run the crossover up to 125hz on that and 80hz lpf on the main sounds super nice
A front sub is a total game changer! It's a must do for any seup IMO.
Well, it really depends on the vehicle and setup. Sometimes you might need it, sometimes you don't.
Now if you had the right vehicle and could get a pair of 12's up front or something huge. Yeah, that is awesome.
The amount of disrespect when you opened the door into the fence made me LOL. A few times...
I do have plastic bumper protectors on the edges of the doors, so it's all good👍
Very informative video. So if i understand this correctly, front sub is only playing sub frequencies up to 45khz?
What would be considered a good front sub candidate in 10 inches?
Any sub that can optimally play in the volume that you have. Front sums most of the time will have very little volume due to the install location.
@@RAW-CAt can a Large 8 or 10 inch Midbass like a Dyn MW182 can it be used instead of the front sub in the kick panel ?
@@uos64 you need to model the response with WinISD, will not be able to tell you from the top of my head.
@@RAW-CAt thank you for your response! I need a basics and fundamentals class first to understand how to model, what is Fs, Xmas, etc etc ...
@@uos64I have a winisd tutorial on my channel, that might help.
JBL Fuse 8". Two passive subs with passive radiators. Can be joined togather to put on center consile or separated to put under the seat. Dirt cheap, but very good for the price
It's always been my understanding the door mounted or rear deck (infinite baffle) drivers need to have a higher QTS like above 0.6 or so to have any bass, literally they ring more in the lower frequencies (less damped). The same applies to open baffle speaker systems, the woofers are usually high QTS...your results are interesting as they show the opossite. Thanks for the great video by the way! Always looking forward to the next one!
Yeah, I have been mislead by Qts in the same way in the past. The truth is that Qts means little without Fs.
A low Qts sub can certainly go deep in IB if the Fs is low enough. Just like a high Qts midbass driver won't give you any serious low end extension if the Fs is too high.
But you always gotta pick your components to match your concept. More specifically, you want your drivers to perform well in the frequency range they're actually gonna play in. I got a 3-way front stage and I'm forced to run door-mounted midbass drivers. But as a compromise I built a 6.5" glove box sub and went for midbass drivers with Qts >0.9 and Fs ~80 Hz, gives me more output where I actually need it.
I would like some advice. I have tuned my system to be flat with a rise in the sub-bass (components in the doors + rear sub). According to the measurements, everything seems to sum up okay, but it feels like the mids are overpowering the mid-high bass, even though the RTA results seem to be following my target
Maybe because you are used to have shit loads of bass? Give it some time, let your ears adjust to the new sound signature.
Brother will the front bass ( one placed at co passenger foot area ) give that tight bass equal to what we get in mercedes burmester system. They also place the bass in front ( both passanger and co passenger side ). i dont like boomy bass coming from the trunk of the car.
And What type of subwoofer should i get ? Front firing or down firing ?
I should point out, it's not limited to the type of sub or it's enclosure. It could be sealed or ported as well.
I have a full size suv (Navigator) and any sub in the rear has a cancellation around 60Hz when measured from the front seat. It plays strong on the bottom end up to 45hz and then starts rolling off very steeply.
I experimented with a small sub under the second row seats, no good.
Under the front seats were better.
In the passenger footwell was best. I had a 6dB boost there compared to under the front seat.
I rarely have a passenger so I've got a sealed 8" sub tucked under the glove box area firing forward towards the firewall. This helps the sound to be less directional and blend in better.
It perfectly blends in playing 50Hz to 80Hz.
You are right, other alignments will have similar issues, however with IB subs it's much more pronounced ,as IB has way more low end gain compared to sealed or ported.
I don't find that to be the case at all with my high q .8qts Steg mss6 IB in the kicks they play stupid low flat down to 38hz then a tiny bit less amplitude down to 15hz then the rolloff starts so high qts isn't the cause of that rolloff.
@@justinhogan7248No one mentioned qts here. Did you reply to the wrong comment?
Do you reckon a front sub can be used as a primary sub and a smaller rear stock can be used as a complimentary sub? In a car like current gen tucson
Like Morel Ultimo Ti Sc 102 or 104 has Freq. res of 10-900 hz.
Front subs don't play low die to location. If you are happy with extension down to 40-45Hz only, you will be fine, but for going down to 30Hz you need a sub in the back and it has to be big.
Quick question did you ever run a 2way with tweeters in pillars and ib woofer in kicks can it reach high enough to mate with the tweeter or you need to go 3way to because the 6.5in cant play high being inverted and is it wired out of phase let me know my friend 😅
Woofer being inverted has nothing to do with that. It's all about the location. My midbass from the kicks play up to ~180Hz. Tweeters, even good ones won't play lower than 2000Hz. You can do the math😉
Hi, nice and informative video. What does it mean low Q and high Q drivers. Can you pls explain it would be helpful for me to understand.
I have a video about that - "what the hell is Q?"
@@RAW-CAt pls share the link for the video
@@sainath8710 th-cam.com/video/HLk1milQjA0/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for sharing
You say several times that the dip can not be solved.. Do you mean with the DSP/ EQ only?
Are there any other solutions to fix this cancelation in your cabin besides adding another sub? Like sound dampening in strategic placement(s) like you can in a sound room?
No, not really,as the sound waves are so long at 60Hz that you would need to fill the entire cabin with some kind of material to fix the issue.
@@RAW-CAt thanks, it's something I have wondered for a while as I don't completely understandstand it yet.
@raw-cat can we use 9 inch midbass driver instead of sub in front and sub in rear?
You can use large format midbass instead of the front sub. They won't play that low however, so the rear sub is still a must.
I have my system sounding pretty good except for mid bass. The bass hits hard. The mids and tweets sound really good, but I’m missing the sound of the bass guitar. I’m using a Nakamichi DSP, Kenwood sub amp with (2)12” subs, 6x9s in my front doors, 3.5” in my dash, and a Taramps 4x100watt for the dash and door speakers. I’m thinking that I may need to add an amp and a couple of 6” or maybe 8” speakers for mid bass. Do you have any advice for this? It is in a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 pickup truck.
I would advise first to measure your car and see the actual responses. It might be something as simple as phase alignment.
@@RAW-CAtI do need to measure it, but I don’t currently have a calibrated microphone. I have tried reversing the phase on the subwoofers. It’s still the same. Everything sounds good except I want to hear more of the bass guitar. Do you think maybe my crossovers need to be adjusted? I have the subwoofer low pass at 45 hz and the front 6x9s at 60hz on the low end. but I still am not hearing the mid bass like I think I should. The mid range and highs sound really good. I am thinking about adding an 8” woofer either in a center console or as a front woofer. I don’t know. Maybe I need to measure first like you said, but I have ran several sound systems for churches and a couple of different bands and I can tell that the mid bass is lacking in my truck. I have also been a musician since I was in second grade.
@@RAW-CAtAlso, maybe it is because I am using all factory mounting locations.? I’m not sure.
@@JayRays1truck you need to measure and see. Otherwise it's just guessing..
@@RAW-CAtI just bought a Dayton Audio IMM6 microphone. What is the best way to connect it to a laptop?
Offtopic question, are PA woofers better for sq? than traditional car audio subs. Yes pa drivers are high impedance, dont play as low, the size, etc. But, you can find something decent, that plays decent low.
Are they better?
They should because of the low mass, and high bl.
Thank you so much
Problem with PA subwoofers and woofers In cars is the physical size. And the fact that 99% of them need a massive ported enclosure. A lot of people say that they are more accurate and impactful🤷 You can find low Mms and high BL car audio drivers as well, just need to look for them.
@@RAW-CAt Thats right, but i will not run from pa either
@@RAW-CAt thank s
Why don't you go ported midbass in front for more midbass?
I would imagine your question is regarding the midbass drivers, and not midRANGE. A couple of reasons. Ported enclosures require a lot of space, IB kics don't need any space. Ported enclosures require different type of midbass drivers, I am planning to use these Status drivers that are not suitable for ported. As well ported enclosures have group delay, that might be audible, in order to avoid issues blending with the sub, ported are to be avoided.
@@RAW-CAt Oops yes, midbass. Thanks for the reply.
Get you one of them IB subs that plays comfortably to 80 and a front sub becomes superfluous.
That Alpine plays strong to 120Hz.
I believe your not understanding whats going on here. Due to the length of the vehicle, the sub in the rear and the front listening position, you get a cancellation in the sound pressure waves.
If he moved the microphone to the rear seat the response would be way smoother.
So it's an artifact of the vehicle and the positioning.
@@JasonWW2000 playing strong up to 120 anechoic isn't exactly helpful if it doesn't play that high in his car.
@@bobgodd Yes, that is my point. Its nothing to do with the sub or the enclosure. It's all about the positioning.
@@JasonWW2000 well that's not entirely true is it? What you're suggesting then is that any sub in that position will have the same response. There's likely some truth to that but certainly different dubs will have different response there. Let's see how the OA sub plays then I'll eat crow if needed.
@@bobgodd Yes, I've found it to be true in my case because I've tested it in my own vehicle. I've tested sealed 8", 10", 12" and ported 12" tuned to 27, 30, 35 and 40Hz. I've measured the free air response out of vehicle and then inside vehicle. I've kept the microphone up front and placed the subs in far rear, behind second row, in second row, floor of second row, in passenger seat and in the passenger foot well.
I can see the cancellation effect go away as I move the sub forward.
This is kind of a bummer for me because I planned on running a large ported enclosure in the back of my SUV (8 cu ft), but since it's output rolls off above 45 HZ I've had to readjust my system layout.
Granted, I'm testing using a small box in the rear so it's not a perfect facsimile. I'm predicting that the full size box will take up more space in the vehicle and extend the bandwidth a little higher.
This is a common issue with people who have large suv's and a small box in the rear. You lack output around 60hz.
I've talked to other builders who put really large boxes in suvs, ones that take up most of the rear space, and they say the enclosures can definitely play stronger at 60hz. I'm assuming because of the smaller vehicle air space left over from the large box. So we will see.
For the time being I've got a sealed 8" sub in the passenger footwell firing forward. You obviously need an extra amp channel to do this which adds complexity. The passenger may not like it either, but it's fine for me. If your serious about sound, you don't want a big hole in the midbass region of your response curve.
Keep in mind it's very vehicle specific. I've never had this issue in my past vehicles over 30 years. This is my first suv (a Lincoln Navigator) so it caught me off guard. Live and learn!
Can we use underceat subwoofer?
Sure you can. If you can fit one.
Not impossible but difficult even with a shallow sub.
I have a underseat 10 in sub mounted inverted under my seat. Upfront impact and kick bass in spades. Honestly for true sq accuracy and listening a rear sub isn't necessary really. It's just fun when you want to send it.
A small sealed pioneer or kenwood underseat powered sub works real nice
I got b2 ref 8 on all 4 doors. Factory location . Solves problem
Yes, I can see how that could solve the problem. It then creates all new problems with vibrating doors. Lol