The Thor dude seems like a super legit genuine dude. The advice he gives, in general, but more so at the end of this video, is incredibly authentic. I wish there were more folks in this world like that. Good shit man.
Thor's stream and videos are exceptional. He speaks really well and is always encouraging and welcoming. Such a great twitch streamer to have on and just listen along.
Dude you have no idea hes legitimately invested in helping people stop working for the man and make shit on their own, hes going to get killed by the CIA or some shady conspiracy shit like that if he doesnt stop :p
This is such a fascinating conversation. Having a cyber security expert, in the gaming space, while a major network breach happens, in the middle of a massive esports tournament is such a rare occurrence. I’ll definitely be following closely.
I really appreciate Thor for his gentle pushback against Mande when he was repeating sensationalized claims (out of understandable fear), pushing against it and nudging Mande into the right direction and saying your piece without needing to call out any specific thing they said or saying anything too confrontational. I also kind of love that it almost became a mini therapy session for Mande for a while towards the back half lmao.
Yeah, it's really sad that for him, Apex is a paycheck instead of a game he can enjoy. You've built your career/life around playing this game that you have no control or say over, and it was an extremely dangerous investment which paid off for years, but now realizing that Apex was never going to be around forever. He should've pivoted his content much earlier, but now he has to do it when no other FPS games are kind of competing for the space.
@@steamfeuvermakes me hope for the finals to pick up traction at some point. i understand the grievances, and the cheating problem is unfortunately bad, but the developers have very real care for this game and show fully that they want to make something all players can enjoy playing a game and supporting a studio like that is really a nice breath of fresh air compared to trying to cater to a mega corporate game where you are just a number and the game is strictly a paycheck
@@mav9987I agree, in this day in age it’s smart to always have a pivot game. These games aren’t conventional sports and don’t have the stability of them either. It’s also hard to predict which games have true long term potential (ie. factors like dev, company, or gameplay issues). I enjoyed The Finals for the first few weeks of beta and launch but soon after the game felt a little repetitive. Although the game is extremely dynamic, it also feels monotonous at the same time. Maybe more unique maps, or gameplay loops would help improve it but who knows.
@@jyk8991 needs way more modes. i compare it to overwatch more than i do apex, and what keeps overwatch fresh is its plethora of maps and modes. once they get them going down we can really see people sticking to the game in full
Man, this video is blowing up! Mad props for the work and knowledge that goes behind this, you're doing the lords work by getting this stuff the exposure it deserves. I've never made a tip before on TH-cam but your shorts always pop up in my feed and your advice has genuinely had a positive impact on both my work and personal life. Figured this is a way I could return the favor, thank you for everything you do.
Id usually laugh at the sentence "I'm a hacker" but your experience and ability to speak effectively and confidently really help ring home how that honestly an understatement
@@twostonedactual2541 I dont have the best skills, but i rec just double checking if you feel sketch about something. I always just do a small search about files or sites before anything
@@twostonedactual2541even if you’re not a PC gamer, the knowledge that you can use to protect your identity and data is priceless. Everyone should be made aware of security.
About the serverside exploitation section: The code for the things happening in this clip, exist within the game files. 1) Spawning bots. There was a limited time mode for Halloween where you could get two AI companions (Prowlers) which acted autonomously with a simple AI to chase and melee enemies within a certain range of you. 2) Increased squad size. There was a limited time mode, in which SURVIVORS killed by HUNTERS switched sides to HUNTERS, enabling teams of dozens on the HUNTER side. The Hackers just need a way to activate combinations of existing legacy functions in the game.
Very good point. Just because none of the buttons in the game assemble a packet to spawn bots anymore does not mean that nobody could assemble one by hand/ with a program. If both of those features are left in, no RCE'd be necessary.
So, pretty much the hacker can use whatever asset the devs have left in the files and create whatever he wants so long as they have existed in said files while making a few adjustments here and there. Apex is his sandbox.
But also, the hacker needed to gather all these bots in the same lobby with his target player, and the game treats these bots as players, which means that the hacker had to use a matchmaking system to get them into the same match with the target player. Doesn't this make it logical to assume that this is a server hack, with some kind of "admin permissions"? It's very similar to what cheaters do in gta online and rdr2 imho
This reminds me of Smash Ultimate hackers loading singleplayer boss battle arenas to play normal Vs. online matches. The server and other clients simply didn't validate that the stage ID being requested was actually selectable for Vs, that's all. With access to the server RCON, debug commands used by the developers to test server functionality prior to events becomes possible. Commands that may explicitly be designed to allow stuff to be tested out of context, without engaging the game mode they were intended for. The same kind of command used by the original server administrators for all kinds of things, including, but not limited to, banning and unbanning players.
Your knowledge is unmatched and your natural intuition and experience is beyond commendable and I have learned so much from watching you, Thor. You are incredible. Thank you.
Yeah I thought the same thing. He didn't say "something is wrong." He immediately recognized it as a hack. Not a possible glitch or even a thought that it could be. This makes me believe that person is familiar with the cheat interface at the very least. The wording of that call out could be a Freudian slip.
@@fivetriplezero8985 I'd say anybody who spends a significant amount of time in FPS games, especially at higher levels where they have a lot more knowledge, they know what that stuff looks like. Like, I pretty regularly see clips of cheaters being exposed or stuff like that, it's not all that uncommon. Plus, it's pretty obvious it's a cheat even from a glance. Suddenly you don't have control of your mouse and it's just lasering down people, and you can see them through the wall? It takes half a second of reasoning to understand what's happening.
I am extremely familiar with FPS and I would have said something more like: "What's going on!? Somehow I have ESP! I don't want this! I need to drop out." I get that he is excited because of the stakes, but his callout was just worded very weirdly. I don't know anything about his regular personality though so I have no idea if it fits his general character or not. Also because of the stakes you could say that he wanted to loudly announce that he in fact wasn't intending to cheat but just got flustered as he said it. In my mind the stakes would make me think a few more seconds before I said anything like that because if he couldn't show them how it happened that audio could get his team DQ'ed. @@br3nnabee
Love how 30 secs into this hour and a half vid you made it so clear as of who you are. I love you men! Congrats on that Steam Award, been watching you since then. Can't believe I spent most of my time on YT and Twitch without watching you.
It's incredibly refreshing to hear someone advocating for compassion while not invalidating the anger the community feels. Wish I could catch your streams, but I'm happy to have found your YT content.
has experience spoke volumes in his his dialogue with Mande. kept to 100 with him while validating feelings. i can tell ones things for sure. Thor is an amazing boss.
Even as a non-Apex Player, this video was extremely interesting! From the Support to the Game Devs, to bringing in Mande, this was all done very respectfully and was very helpful in understanding what goes on behind the scenes of ANY online game. Also, though I've never heard of him(as I don't play or follow Apex), Mande seems like an absolute stand-up guy!
And to think not that long ago I remember thinking “who’s private software and why is he in my TikTok and shorts so much?” Now when this happened I thought “I wonder what pirate will say.” Love it
"The marketing and merchandising teams are going to keep going even if the game is on fire because that was there release schedule. Not every team stops just because one aspect of the game is broken" THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING THIS. Coming from the Halo Infinite team it was so tiring seeing every single external media post get flooded with comments like "Why are you releasing a new audiobook?! FIX THE GAME!!!. Why are you releasing a fun little cookbook?? FIX THE GAME!!! Why are you putting more cosmetics on the store!!!? FIX THE GAME!!!!" My brother, it's not the art team's job to fix the game, or the marketing, or franchise, or legal's team to fix the game. It's QA and engineers and every time they come into work it's like opening the door to a furnace. And yes absolutely, imagine how hard it is to solve these massively entangled issues ON TOP of the community hating your guts and giving you negative morale all day every day for even mundane things, let alone serious issues. You want stuff to get fixed? Honest to god, just submit a support ticket and be as unbiased and objective with your description as possible. QA needs plain facts and raw information to work with. The more of that they have the better they can prioritize and fix things. No matter how angry you get or how betrayed you feel or how crap the game seems to be at the end of the day its really just that simple. Twitter rage doesn't fix those kinds of problems. Basic support tickets do.
I work in the cybersecurity industry and also live in the Seattle area. Love your channel, your mission (from my own perspective), someone that actually understands red/purple/blue teams and the role they play in an organization, and how software and application development is deployed and the issues that arise when CI/CD and QA processes are weak with no culture around collaboration across team functions. You get it. You’re a pro. And your opinions and expertise shared on this channel has impacts across the gaming industry. Keep up the amazing work! The gaming community needs more like you to speak up!
@@tylermorrison509 he didn't have all the information. He made conclusions based on what he knew at the time. While he doesn't know apex, he then had someone who does join him so he could discuss and rethink with new information
@@tylermorrison509 Considering it's been his job for 20 years, and he was following the process of elimination (basic problem solving, doesn't require his job or training)- you sound dense.
On the topic of communication and devs, I haven't played the game in a long while but I will always respect the team at Warframe for how they are able to take one of the biggest spaghetti messes of a videogame and cultivate a relatively positive relationship with the community. The devs are playing and talking in game to people, they're doing livestreams where they directly talk about things rather than avoiding them, they'll say "hey, guess what, that plan we had - you all tweeted us telling us it sucked and you hated it, so we recognise it's a mistake and we're not going to do it", and then they lighten the mood with some memes and human interactions and positivity. Rebecca and Megan from the community team and some of the devs like Pablo who just literally sit on a sofa once a month or tweet reply to people do more than any crafted PR statement or new shiny distraction could ever do to get players on side.
again take this with a grain of salt because I haven't been close to the game for a while, but my last understanding was that Megan was community manager and Rebecca was her boss and one of the directors@@MonlopoMAN
I love thor and i love thors ability to be like we shouldnt be claiming we know we dont and also when given new info "oh this changes things". To many people are scared to admit either of those things.
I'd just like to say thank you for listening to Mande's complaints and responding in the way that you did. While I don't know the guy that well it felt like you got through to him pretty well and helped him to sort some things out in his head and get some things off his chest. I feel too much that people have an Us V Them mentality when it comes to defending people in their industry and the fact that you were able to make Mande feel heard and understood while showing him how it all works, why he feels that way, and have him come out of the conversation understanding the other side while still feeling his grievances were valid was a wonderful thing. I sincerely hope more developers and community managers take note of that, as I reckon it'd help make discourse around these sorts of issues calmer and more constructive.
Mande is a pretty chill guy, he never is a negative type but he’s been dealing with cheating for MONTHS to the point where some days he had to stop playing sadly because it was every game, and he is tired of respawn not doing anything ( it feels like they arnt ) but yea it’s nice he listens to Mande and also gives him some intel on the employee side of things was a cool call tbh
Super super good conversation. Never listened to long form pirate software before. What a lovely guy breaking down a complex topic in a really good and considerate way towards the players and the company
This breakdown was really cool and the insistence on applying occam's razor before assumptions was respectable. Thank you for the content this was enjoyable to watch and informative
So rad to finally have an entertaining, prominent voice in the streaming space that can react to things like this with an informed perspective (and inform viewers in the process). So much stuff to digest here, and yet super easy to follow 🙏
Fr my number one pet peeve of react youtubers is when they are so uninformed yet try to make these big elaborate deductions or statements on something when they have no idea what they’re talking about.
I love them bringing in the apex player because it shows both sides on how people are approaching this information. You have the InfoSec/Dev side and the average end user side.
As someone who doesn't play Apex I still found this video amazing and basically anything from 59 mins in you could replace "apex" to ANY current competitive game Cod, battlefield etc and it would be accurate and amazing information for all people when facing this kind of issues in games they enjoy
The servers of Respawn being vulnerable is a story as old as the company. They literally stopped selling Titanfall 1 because its servers are/were trashed by apparently a single hacker. And the Titanfall 2 community kept their game alive by modding the game and adding a custom server browser and custom gamemodes for the game back when the same hackers were attacking the Titanfall 2 servers. Now TF|2 is playable again on vanilla servers but who knows how long that will last.
That's what I find so weird about this Apex's server compromission. 4 months after TF|2 servers are patch it's the Apex servers that are underfire. Imagine if the hacker would find a way to automate waves of bots to render the game unplayable like he automated server crash in TF|2 ?
This is the scariest part. It's EA and Respawn's negligence or ignorance of fixing their games from hackers. It goes to show that modders from the community have more control over the game than the people who created them. It's pretty much up to Respawn and EA to figure out if they want to make an effort to care for the breadwinner or simply craft another one and hope it does well financially.
The fact they still use stryder baffles me. Despite how many times it has shown how its old age is effecting it, they still decide thats its perfectly safe. They just need to fix stryder or take it down.
@@Sorrowgrave No thats wrong there was a group that "tried" to combat the "hacker" which they then turned evil to hack tf2 just flooding servers with bots and then did the same with apex and changed the msg of the day to their groups name and they boasted it was all easy cause respawn used the same security layout for all three games all while EA was selling tf1/2 at discount while fully knowing no one could play any of the games for years and apex being down for like 2 days at the same time.
Man it's really cool that talking about anti-cheat is becoming more mainstream now! As a bonus most anti-cheat devs are huge nerds and truly love thier craft. It's very fun to listen to and when the person talking knows WAAAAY more than the normal player real things can happen. Knowledge is power, and is the players have more knowledge then that can help everyone!
Thor - Top tier security specialist, years of experience, many notable achievements, former wielder of the mighty banhammer! Prime: - Massive security liability, damn near wiped out Netflix on an oopsie......
im so glad you uploaded this whole thing, man so many people heard you say "I think his machine is compromised" in the first few minutes- punched it in as a headline and clipped it, and now people think Apex is 100% good and these two just have malware... (WE dON'T KNOW YET).
Thanks for posting this Thor. I was checking in about this since someone else was asking about it and you were the first person that I figured would have the best grasp of the situation!!
As a college student in cyber security these things are always interesting and I love the discussion. I always feel like I'm learning more, especially when it comes to the analysis of the issue. Greatly appreciated
As someone who does security, this is exactly what it looks like (PirateSoftware's handling) - you verify every claim, using all the evidence. He drew out the information from the subject matter experts with perfect questions, building out connections where possible. Trying not to make them certain where they're not. Assumptions will kill you as badly as grumpy employees and phishing attacks will. There is a LOT to learn from watching this.
Thor, after over a decade of working in an ICT Support/SysAdmin role and not feeling great progression, I'm part of site wide lay off but this allows me to upskill... Watching your videos and streams over the past year and seeing your passion for what you do and did in the past, inspired me into pursuing my interests/instincts in security and analytics. I absolutely love it! Thank you for the always informative and enjoyable content, I think I speak for the majority by saying that you're very much an inspiration to to many!
Okay I gotta say, it really felt during this interview that this Primeagen dude just wasnt listening to your answers or tuning out. A couple times he flat out ignores questions you ask him in response, but it was still really fantastic and insightful to hear your views and takes on this stuff coz as you say its very much in your wheelhouse. Thanks for putting this together Thor.
I think its mostly just a case of them not working together that greatly naturally, it happens all the time, people don’t always click or are on the same wavelenghts. They were looking at the problem from diffrent views leading to different interest points. At least I would think so.
@@SilverTicketlore Dude was clearly reacting emotionally. Was getting extremely specialized feedback from an expert in the field and he just wanted to be angry with Respawn instead of using his brain, and he seemed annoyed that Thor wasn't joining him in that. Maybe don't rely on 1 single game for income and just expect it to last forever.
Everything else aside, I think its really awesome how you could, and did, give Mande some peace of mind, great overall advice etc. Ofc you do it for your viewers a lot, which is what I greatly respect, but the guy is sounds so clearly relieved after he could vent a bit and had some of his worries put to rest
Thanks for posting this Thor. I was checking in about this since someone else was asking about it and you were the first person that I figured would have the best grasp of the situation [outside the company]. I was not disappointed with the discussion. Great insights on the internal workings within a large company. Keep up the great work.
It seems like the majority of my comments are getting censored on this stoopid website! Anyway, I'm sorry for that... Look at the last option inside the "TSM HALAL HOOK" window. I can't repeat these word here, apparently... I think it might give us a tiny bit of information about the hacker's physical location, or at least from what kind of demographic he is from. edit: That's assuming that cheat tool was made by this/these individual(s), which might not be the case.
you approach these conversations with such empathy when speaking to players. I wish more game companies would communicate with the player base in the ways discussed in this video.
Thank you for cutting this out from your stream to make it easier to find/watch. I love this content but I would miss it as I don't get to watch every or the entire live streams so I am glad this was shared to get the info.
It was genuinely a breath of fresh air being able to hear all sides come together to have open dialogue and discussion about what the problem is, and how each side can play a part in fixing it. Discovering unique similarities because at the end of the day, they share the same goal for wanting games to thrive and succeed.
This is the first ever long video I've seen in on my page from Pirate Sofware, his clips are fucking everywhere for w/e reason, but I just want to say the end of the video shows how good and genuine a human being you are and you. P.S. I sold a WoW account after highschool going into LK don't hate me please, was #1 boomkin in PvE (NA) in BC lol not that I had much competition.
thank you for clarifying the issues and not spreading miss information. it's refreshing to see someone who has a background on these issues and able to explain what's happening "in a simple way" and not jump to conclusions. Me being new here I'm definitely going to be watching more of your content that has to do with hacking since I find it fascinating and uneducated on the matter.
Watched this from Mandes stream yesterday and you blew my mind. Instantly subbed and liked when I saw this pop up on my feed. Thank you for your knowledge and insight!!
@@Ekdrink not really, the amount of people that live thinking the world is against them and any figure of power is using it to make their life horrible... isn't something only in apex legends isn't something only in videogames industry, people love to think that the world gives them their hardest fights and they endure the worst, world were a bit better if people could understand that shits happens to everyone and that we must work together instead of fighting each other who isn't completely agree with us.
So glad this guy seems to know what he is talking about. So much reactionary content regarding this and people re-formatting (after a quick how do i re format search) their pc.
@@magnum3.14 When using a new data drive, you have to format it(im not savvy enough to know exactly what formatting does, but it basically allocates space in the drive for the computers to use). Re-formatting means youre completely wiping all data on that drive by allocating that space again. Wiping a drive means there is a high chance of wiping any virusses lodged in it. Wont work on hardware virusses unfortunately but these are extremely rare.
Formatting a block device(storage drive) is simply the process of defining a filesystem of which your operating system can recognize. This is done by first writing your fs metadata and allocating and creating what is called the superblock(typically at the "beginning" of the filesystem) you then you reserve the remaining size of the partition in fixed sized blocks and start to build your reference and inode trees( an inode is essentially just a file). There is a bit more to it but this is a general process of device formatting across most filesystems. The purpose of this is simply to give your operating system some way to logically arrange itself on disk in a way that can be reliably understood
Dude as a fellow security professional, I would LOVE to see more content like this from you. Your knowledge and experience is fascinating and I wanna hear more!
hey Thor. Just wanted to thank you for informing us of the dangers between client side and server side stuff. The video was very enlightening of the situations both developers and players have to face. Know that I will be a part of the community that will see what other activities you want to branch out to as well. Thanks as always.
It was great that you were able to have the Apex pro on the stream and talk to them and see their take and perspective. They did a good job of illustrating their feelings and perceptions of the game and talking through the situation. I am glad we were able to see it.
Some lore on Destroyer2009 Destroyer is a kid who got hardware banned on rust like 5 years ago which sent him down a coding/exploiting rabbit hole. He is a fan of apex who has been developing cheats and finding vulnerabilities in the game for a long time. This level of breach is impressive and I’m curious to know what level of access to the server and or client he really has
@@mr.jojomunoz6561 He's just relaying what he heard on Mande's second video with destroyer, doesn't look like many people have seen that video an I advise checking it out lol Another thing destroyer mentioned was having 200 accounts in queue trying to get into the game, so everyone thinking he's "spawning bots through code" are off the mark xD
To hear an Apex pro/streamer talking about having to quit the game and possibly lose his career and hearing how genuinely upset and frustrated he sounds is devastating and it feels like it happens so often with so many games
This was really interesting as someone with a tertiary knowledge of security by being in low level IT. It opens my eyes to that there's a lot I can learn about the cyber sec part of IT
Great content, Thank you for posting this... it is awesome and refreshing to hear an intelligent opinion on such a rampant subject... Keep up the great work!!!
it was so cool to hear two of my worlds colliding weigh in on both the dev side and the player side on the issues that Apex has been going through. thanks for the video!
I feel like, as a gamer, we really needed to hear all of this. Thank you guys for all of the insight! It really brings a new light to what goes on on the other side of the fence.
I've been watching your shorts for while and this has been the most fascinating video, bc I love apex and tiranfall and have recently wanting to get into cybersecurity. It is awesome to see you at work and try to understand what's going on, in my favorite game.
Your content is simply amazing. I think i learned more with this video than many teachers in my software engineer degree. Thanks for sharing your experience so openly and in a way so clear and easy to understand.
I barely, if at all, know about the specifics that Thor talks about how any of this works, but my main point is that I thoroughly enjoy watching his videos just because of his enjoyment for what he does and how he words everything. Thank you Thor
Imagine being such a Gigachad in cybersecurity industry and be like: "Nah, my passion is making games and petting ferrets". Like those Ultimate Samurai with unmatched sword skills who become farmers just for a peace of mind
I was waiting for this upload since I saw the clips of you talking about the apex clips. You were the first person I wanted to hear a POV of. This is gonna be interesting.
Facts, as SOON as it happened I was like “I’m not listening to what anyone says until Thor comments on the situation” he’s arguably the most knowledgeable guy in the area who’s public and forthcoming with information on these subjects.
Super interesting to hear your opinion on this kind of stuff. Definitely liked the longer analysis of the situation. It's also nice to hear a better framing of the dev and community relationship, since it is really adversarial in some communities. Thanks for this.
I was so glad to hear you talk about the dev side of things. As a dev myself, it's so sad to see how bad people bash the devs. I can guarantee there are some devs at Respawn that truly hate to see the game in this state, and would love nothing more than to fix it. But unfortunately, they're under EA. If the big boss says "new legend first, bug fixes later", then you have to do it. You can't go rogue or your job is toast and you can't feed your family. It really sucks but at the end of the day that's the reality of it. I also agree that more companies need much better community relations. For EA, I can probably guess it's about money. They won't dare admit fault or their stock prices tank. At the end of the day, we have to speak with our wallets. Which also sucks because as stated in the video, many people may not encounter the same issues as Mande. In my 3 years of playing Apex, I have personally ran into maybe 1 cheater long ago. So yeah just an unfortunate situation all around.
Yes and no, respawn (the apex devs) have had this problem on almost every game they’ve made, while you’re right what the big boss says goes, you’d think after the 3rd game failing because of hackers you’d have a better plan going into it, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result, is this any different?
It's hard not to feel antagonistic towards developers when the game keeps getting worse and worse and seemingly all they do is ask 200 euros for a knife.
@DoktorJammified tbf it isn't respawn that sets the prices its ea. Ea says how much money the need/want to make in set amount of time and respawn has to do it or say bye bye to funding and anything else ea provides for respawn
There’s a clip a month afterwards of him on Hal’s account. So it’s absolutely something connected to the server where he can see and use the info. In which case, the client does have enough connection. His personality denotes that he does get enjoyment out of being outside of extradition. However, he is of enlistment age, so that might be a useful way for the feds in Endgame to handle him.
I have never heard of you before, I've played games you've worked with. Can I just say I am so impressed with how you handle these situations. Your demeanor, and concise explanations are stellar. Thank you for a great video. I learned more than I expected and really appreciate your approach.
I know you don't need the validation, but I love that you respectfully call your chat on BS but still with a firm stance that it's idiotic if it's intentional.
@@Joeyfield0 He's the other dude talking to Thor at the beginning/rest of the video sporadically. The other guy who joins midway is some apex player judging by what he's saying about the game.
@@Joeyfield0 as Pixelbendr said. To add context, he is a developer at netflix with a large community on youtube twitch and overall super funny and smart guy. The other guy joining is TSM Mande, but he had a lot of success filling in for apex pros, and this season he was also competing in ALGS with his semi-seriouss team of streamers.
been playing apex since the beginning and started watching your videos a couple of months back... i really enjoy your content and loved your take on the situation... keep giving your intakes and the gaming community will evolve, or at least we'll have certain notions unknown to us thanks for the clarity
As a consistent Apex Viewer in the comp scene and the general streamer community I really appreciate your words Thor. Mande is a good representative I think for the way most of the players feel. Without any recent word from Official Apex sources I will not have Apex content to watch and will choosing not to play Apex for the time being. Will be checking out the Pirate Software content instead since it seems to be made with a lot of thought, consideration, and really good quality audio.
Oh my god i just finished watching the whole thing. This was so fantastic and wholesome,and the pro apex player joing the stream and being validated by thor while also,maybe having their opinions changed a bit by thor was phenomenal
From a purely investigative standpoint, I like the Occam’s razor stuff. When you’re investigating stuff as an amateur it’s fun, and the want there is to go straight to the craziest theory possible because ultimately that makes it more fun. You see it all the time with the true crime people.
Really liked the last part of the vid. Respawn needs to talk to the community. The community should support them since it's the game they love. All the best to respawns security team! Would love to see a update on this channel at some point. Great vid!
the weird thing about the whole situation to me is: some days prior to this these players got gifted A LOT of lootboxes (like 10k usd worth or something like it) while livestreaming. It could be possible that these hackers found a way to connect and execute code on the player's clients, but had no way of telling which client was which player. They started gifting those Apex Packs to those who were livestreaming to sort of "connect the dots" and find out which "client ID" was which player. This is just my theory, could also be anything else as Im not an expert, but seems weird to me that those 2 players BOTH received these packs gifted to them merely days prior to this competition.
We need an interview between Thor and this hacker. Break down approaches, technical details etc. It would be super popular, and help the community or even companies fix things. Vigilante turned a hero.
Love this video. Dives into every nook and cranny regarding the issue of live-service games, vulnerabilities, all that jazz. entertaining and educational the whole way through. Thor's statements in regards to the attack on developers were perfect and I wish more people reflected the same sentiments online.
In the server-side exploitation section, if Hal is playing on a compromised machine, they could redirect the matchmaking process of HIS game to connect to the hacker's server which would allow that zombie-bot behavior. Or it could simply be that they can join the same player's server, quickly filling it up with these bots of their own. Depends on the process to joining that server. In any case, it's an interesting video. Thanks!
These are Apex Predator lobbies with real players, and he is dropping 40 bots on them that count as one squad. If you continued watching you would've heard those bits.
1:23:26 On radio silence being bad, Last Epoch was a good recent example. The launch week was an absolute mess, the servers were on fire, but you had the CEO of EHG talking in the general chat of a 200,000 member discord channel getting information and reassuring people. Compare it to D4, you couldnt imagine Rod Fergusson for example having open conversation while things are going wrong
Helldivers 2 as well, CEO has been very active, taking feedback and giving updates on Server issues status in real time, it really helped me stick through the bad launch to hear they were working on it and making progress in real time
He was not in general chat, that was the art producer. The mods were deleting messages that flamed them for being radio silent between server crashes. They are still radio silent on alot of issues.
Prime and Thor slowly realizing the capabilities of Destroyer2009 and his infamy in the community is such a wild ride lmao
He is ascending
Especially after the Titanfall issues.
I just played a game with him on apex tonight. I swear to God. I was making fun of his age.
@@Chronicleropewait this is the same guy who fucked up titsnfall? Yeaaaa that’s probably an apex thing in that chance
@@Chroniclerope Wait it's the same dude
The Thor dude seems like a super legit genuine dude. The advice he gives, in general, but more so at the end of this video, is incredibly authentic. I wish there were more folks in this world like that.
Good shit man.
Thor's stream and videos are exceptional. He speaks really well and is always encouraging and welcoming. Such a great twitch streamer to have on and just listen along.
One of us. One of us. One of us.
This guy is amazing on every level. I'm a fan.
Dude you have no idea hes legitimately invested in helping people stop working for the man and make shit on their own, hes going to get killed by the CIA or some shady conspiracy shit like that if he doesnt stop :p
Thor is super solid. Awesome dude.
This is such a fascinating conversation. Having a cyber security expert, in the gaming space, while a major network breach happens, in the middle of a massive esports tournament is such a rare occurrence. I’ll definitely be following closely.
I really appreciate Thor for his gentle pushback against Mande when he was repeating sensationalized claims (out of understandable fear), pushing against it and nudging Mande into the right direction and saying your piece without needing to call out any specific thing they said or saying anything too confrontational.
I also kind of love that it almost became a mini therapy session for Mande for a while towards the back half lmao.
Yeah, it's really sad that for him, Apex is a paycheck instead of a game he can enjoy. You've built your career/life around playing this game that you have no control or say over, and it was an extremely dangerous investment which paid off for years, but now realizing that Apex was never going to be around forever. He should've pivoted his content much earlier, but now he has to do it when no other FPS games are kind of competing for the space.
@@steamfeuvermakes me hope for the finals to pick up traction at some point. i understand the grievances, and the cheating problem is unfortunately bad, but the developers have very real care for this game and show fully that they want to make something all players can enjoy
playing a game and supporting a studio like that is really a nice breath of fresh air compared to trying to cater to a mega corporate game where you are just a number and the game is strictly a paycheck
@@mav9987I agree, in this day in age it’s smart to always have a pivot game. These games aren’t conventional sports and don’t have the stability of them either. It’s also hard to predict which games have true long term potential (ie. factors like dev, company, or gameplay issues).
I enjoyed The Finals for the first few weeks of beta and launch but soon after the game felt a little repetitive. Although the game is extremely dynamic, it also feels monotonous at the same time. Maybe more unique maps, or gameplay loops would help improve it but who knows.
@@jyk8991 needs way more modes. i compare it to overwatch more than i do apex, and what keeps overwatch fresh is its plethora of maps and modes. once they get them going down we can really see people sticking to the game in full
A man who has worked both in govt and corp and has damn well learned to be persuasive and gentle
Man, this video is blowing up! Mad props for the work and knowledge that goes behind this, you're doing the lords work by getting this stuff the exposure it deserves.
I've never made a tip before on TH-cam but your shorts always pop up in my feed and your advice has genuinely had a positive impact on both my work and personal life. Figured this is a way I could return the favor, thank you for everything you do.
You could have spent all that money on drugs and hookers.
Thor, your thumbnails might be made in 5 minutes and have Comic Sans for the font, but we love you anyways. Glory to the Goblin King
glory to the goblin king!!!
comic sans is the best font for the internet.
Comic sans is actually helpful for dyslexic people
Comic sans is better than thor mouse writing.. but we still love it anyway.
@@emmastark3285ye thats right, one of the things designers dont get, there are no ugly and bad fonts, just bad use of them. :)
Id usually laugh at the sentence "I'm a hacker" but your experience and ability to speak effectively and confidently really help ring home how that honestly an understatement
One of the rare occasions where someone saying "I'm a hacker" is actually exactly that.
@@Pointykek right. I wish I had that skill set. just got into the PC gaming world and the knowledge to protect myself would be priceless to me.
@@twostonedactual2541 I dont have the best skills, but i rec just double checking if you feel sketch about something. I always just do a small search about files or sites before anything
@@twostonedactual2541even if you’re not a PC gamer, the knowledge that you can use to protect your identity and data is priceless. Everyone should be made aware of security.
@Pointykek It's an understatement. He does more than know the game, he knows the game development, business and even the streaming sides.
About the serverside exploitation section: The code for the things happening in this clip, exist within the game files.
1) Spawning bots. There was a limited time mode for Halloween where you could get two AI companions (Prowlers) which acted autonomously with a simple AI to chase and melee enemies within a certain range of you.
2) Increased squad size. There was a limited time mode, in which SURVIVORS killed by HUNTERS switched sides to HUNTERS, enabling teams of dozens on the HUNTER side.
The Hackers just need a way to activate combinations of existing legacy functions in the game.
Very good point. Just because none of the buttons in the game assemble a packet to spawn bots anymore does not mean that nobody could assemble one by hand/ with a program. If both of those features are left in, no RCE'd be necessary.
Ah, this makes my thoughts of simply using actual bots less likely. With those, he could use valid commands with invalid context sent to the server.
So, pretty much the hacker can use whatever asset the devs have left in the files and create whatever he wants so long as they have existed in said files while making a few adjustments here and there.
Apex is his sandbox.
But also, the hacker needed to gather all these bots in the same lobby with his target player, and the game treats these bots as players, which means that the hacker had to use a matchmaking system to get them into the same match with the target player. Doesn't this make it logical to assume that this is a server hack, with some kind of "admin permissions"? It's very similar to what cheaters do in gta online and rdr2 imho
This reminds me of Smash Ultimate hackers loading singleplayer boss battle arenas to play normal Vs. online matches. The server and other clients simply didn't validate that the stage ID being requested was actually selectable for Vs, that's all.
With access to the server RCON, debug commands used by the developers to test server functionality prior to events becomes possible. Commands that may explicitly be designed to allow stuff to be tested out of context, without engaging the game mode they were intended for. The same kind of command used by the original server administrators for all kinds of things, including, but not limited to, banning and unbanning players.
Your knowledge is unmatched and your natural intuition and experience is beyond commendable and I have learned so much from watching you, Thor. You are incredible. Thank you.
"Im cheating Im cheating!" is such a wild callout
Yeah I thought the same thing. He didn't say "something is wrong." He immediately recognized it as a hack. Not a possible glitch or even a thought that it could be. This makes me believe that person is familiar with the cheat interface at the very least. The wording of that call out could be a Freudian slip.
@@fivetriplezero8985 He somehow knew how to make the cheat loader disappear after it popped up.
@@fivetriplezero8985 you would notice an aimbot or wallhacks instantaneously if you were playing a game, you have spent 1000+ hours in
@@fivetriplezero8985 I'd say anybody who spends a significant amount of time in FPS games, especially at higher levels where they have a lot more knowledge, they know what that stuff looks like. Like, I pretty regularly see clips of cheaters being exposed or stuff like that, it's not all that uncommon. Plus, it's pretty obvious it's a cheat even from a glance. Suddenly you don't have control of your mouse and it's just lasering down people, and you can see them through the wall? It takes half a second of reasoning to understand what's happening.
I am extremely familiar with FPS and I would have said something more like: "What's going on!? Somehow I have ESP! I don't want this! I need to drop out." I get that he is excited because of the stakes, but his callout was just worded very weirdly. I don't know anything about his regular personality though so I have no idea if it fits his general character or not. Also because of the stakes you could say that he wanted to loudly announce that he in fact wasn't intending to cheat but just got flustered as he said it. In my mind the stakes would make me think a few more seconds before I said anything like that because if he couldn't show them how it happened that audio could get his team DQ'ed. @@br3nnabee
Hey Destroyer. If you read this. Just start giving everyone Heirlooms. That should piss off EA even more.
Fr If u want to hurt EA Take away their extremly overpriced Skins. And IT will be fixed in No Time
They can gift apex packs. So give us all 500 and there we go lol
Especially if he gives me heirlooms. I bet giving me heirlooms would be the worst thing that can happen to EA, 100%.
Honestly true disable their monetization and EA will get on that instantly.
@@IdiotSun69 its true! i got word from hideouts that the only reason they dont work harder is because my boy over here has been unaffected.
Love how 30 secs into this hour and a half vid you made it so clear as of who you are. I love you men! Congrats on that Steam Award, been watching you since then. Can't believe I spent most of my time on YT and Twitch without watching you.
It really speaks to your character seeing your opinion change in realtime as you're being fed new information. Incredible insight
@@jrpgplayer ermm like seriously they must be literally stupid
@@jrpgplayer yup
More analysis than opinion.
Flip flop flip flop
It’s not character lol. You cannot solve problems without basic critical thinking skills.
It's incredibly refreshing to hear someone advocating for compassion while not invalidating the anger the community feels. Wish I could catch your streams, but I'm happy to have found your YT content.
Invalidating? Dude get an actual life.
@@Dr.RojoMcDelly bit of a ironic comment
@@Dr.RojoMcDelly Those exist?
He streams pretty consistently at I think 3-4am EST? and then he streams for around 12 hours,
@@Dr.RojoMcDelly what
Thanks for this, as a fellow cyber security professional its awesome to see you give direction and information to people!
22:40 reminded me of when the Division stored all your character and weapon stats in a text file that you could edit however you wanted
Good times! God that was so funny.
Sounds like such a ubisoft thing to do
I remember that!!!!!
that was pretty much all games 15 years ago.
Yeah undertale has that too, you can alter all of your characters values
Man… the care you took to make sure you understood Mande and words of encouragement was really amazing to see. You are such an amazing guy.
Thor=best fuse I'll never look at fuse again without seeing Thor's face
has experience spoke volumes in his his dialogue with Mande. kept to 100 with him while validating feelings. i can tell ones things for sure. Thor is an amazing boss.
@@dixiestix2197 je de w,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Even as a non-Apex Player, this video was extremely interesting!
From the Support to the Game Devs, to bringing in Mande, this was all done very respectfully and was very helpful in understanding what goes on behind the scenes of ANY online game.
Also, though I've never heard of him(as I don't play or follow Apex), Mande seems like an absolute stand-up guy!
And to think not that long ago I remember thinking “who’s private software and why is he in my TikTok and shorts so much?” Now when this happened I thought “I wonder what pirate will say.”
Love it
Destroyer is infamous in the apex community for doing things like dropping bots on streamers mid ranked game and giving people thousands of apex packs
And running his pc cheats on console, he's able to use his pc accounts and hacks on console lobbies and *nobody* but him knows how.
they talk about this in the video thank you for reminding me
The law needs to be updated to reflux these trolls.
@@meowxeno possibly abusing or exploiting the crossplay system
Damn bruh can he slide me some packs I need my heirlooms 😭
"The marketing and merchandising teams are going to keep going even if the game is on fire because that was there release schedule. Not every team stops just because one aspect of the game is broken"
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING THIS.
Coming from the Halo Infinite team it was so tiring seeing every single external media post get flooded with comments like "Why are you releasing a new audiobook?! FIX THE GAME!!!. Why are you releasing a fun little cookbook?? FIX THE GAME!!! Why are you putting more cosmetics on the store!!!? FIX THE GAME!!!!" My brother, it's not the art team's job to fix the game, or the marketing, or franchise, or legal's team to fix the game. It's QA and engineers and every time they come into work it's like opening the door to a furnace. And yes absolutely, imagine how hard it is to solve these massively entangled issues ON TOP of the community hating your guts and giving you negative morale all day every day for even mundane things, let alone serious issues.
You want stuff to get fixed? Honest to god, just submit a support ticket and be as unbiased and objective with your description as possible. QA needs plain facts and raw information to work with. The more of that they have the better they can prioritize and fix things. No matter how angry you get or how betrayed you feel or how crap the game seems to be at the end of the day its really just that simple. Twitter rage doesn't fix those kinds of problems. Basic support tickets do.
Developing sounds like a massive headache kudos to y'all
Didn't know making a game was that hard, I thought you just needed an art team some coders and that's really it.
343 doesn’t listen to fans, they haven’t for the last decade+
I work in the cybersecurity industry and also live in the Seattle area. Love your channel, your mission (from my own perspective), someone that actually understands red/purple/blue teams and the role they play in an organization, and how software and application development is deployed and the issues that arise when CI/CD and QA processes are weak with no culture around collaboration across team functions. You get it. You’re a pro. And your opinions and expertise shared on this channel has impacts across the gaming industry. Keep up the amazing work! The gaming community needs more like you to speak up!
This is by far the best video about the subject. Literally professionals who care about what they are talking about and not just farming content.
He doesn’t know a thing about apex, nor the tournament, nor the streamers. He’s made 3 false accusations in the first 5 mins. Worst breakdown yet.
@@tylermorrison509 he didn't have all the information. He made conclusions based on what he knew at the time. While he doesn't know apex, he then had someone who does join him so he could discuss and rethink with new information
@@tylermorrison509 Considering it's been his job for 20 years, and he was following the process of elimination (basic problem solving, doesn't require his job or training)- you sound dense.
@@tylermorrison509 sounds like 5 mins is how long your attention span is.
@@linhza501 right, that’s why I watched the whole thing
On the topic of communication and devs, I haven't played the game in a long while but I will always respect the team at Warframe for how they are able to take one of the biggest spaghetti messes of a videogame and cultivate a relatively positive relationship with the community. The devs are playing and talking in game to people, they're doing livestreams where they directly talk about things rather than avoiding them, they'll say "hey, guess what, that plan we had - you all tweeted us telling us it sucked and you hated it, so we recognise it's a mistake and we're not going to do it", and then they lighten the mood with some memes and human interactions and positivity. Rebecca and Megan from the community team and some of the devs like Pablo who just literally sit on a sofa once a month or tweet reply to people do more than any crafted PR statement or new shiny distraction could ever do to get players on side.
Isnt Megan incharge of DE now?
again take this with a grain of salt because I haven't been close to the game for a while, but my last understanding was that Megan was community manager and Rebecca was her boss and one of the directors@@MonlopoMAN
the fun part of warframe is that it doesn't hide obvious problems in the game and make it funny instead of make you afraid/ angry
I love thor and i love thors ability to be like we shouldnt be claiming we know we dont and also when given new info "oh this changes things". To many people are scared to admit either of those things.
@@Ray-mj5mjmoreso the difference between someone with critical thinking skills and an idiot.
@@Nubleborskyexactly, one does not need to be a professional to use their brain.
@@Ehh..... Professionals use their brain
Is this thors channel
@@tonyconnor5691 yes
I'd just like to say thank you for listening to Mande's complaints and responding in the way that you did. While I don't know the guy that well it felt like you got through to him pretty well and helped him to sort some things out in his head and get some things off his chest. I feel too much that people have an Us V Them mentality when it comes to defending people in their industry and the fact that you were able to make Mande feel heard and understood while showing him how it all works, why he feels that way, and have him come out of the conversation understanding the other side while still feeling his grievances were valid was a wonderful thing. I sincerely hope more developers and community managers take note of that, as I reckon it'd help make discourse around these sorts of issues calmer and more constructive.
Thor has extensive social engineering experience. He could hate Mande's guts :P
Mande is a pretty chill guy, he never is a negative type but he’s been dealing with cheating for MONTHS to the point where some days he had to stop playing sadly because it was every game, and he is tired of respawn not doing anything ( it feels like they arnt ) but yea it’s nice he listens to Mande and also gives him some intel on the employee side of things was a cool call tbh
Super super good conversation. Never listened to long form pirate software before. What a lovely guy breaking down a complex topic in a really good and considerate way towards the players and the company
This breakdown was really cool and the insistence on applying occam's razor before assumptions was respectable. Thank you for the content this was enjoyable to watch and informative
So rad to finally have an entertaining, prominent voice in the streaming space that can react to things like this with an informed perspective (and inform viewers in the process). So much stuff to digest here, and yet super easy to follow 🙏
Fr my number one pet peeve of react youtubers is when they are so uninformed yet try to make these big elaborate deductions or statements on something when they have no idea what they’re talking about.
Reminds me of @TotalBiscuit
I love them bringing in the apex player because it shows both sides on how people are approaching this information. You have the InfoSec/Dev side and the average end user side.
As someone who doesn't play Apex I still found this video amazing and basically anything from 59 mins in you could replace "apex" to ANY current competitive game Cod, battlefield etc and it would be accurate and amazing information for all people when facing this kind of issues in games they enjoy
The servers of Respawn being vulnerable is a story as old as the company. They literally stopped selling Titanfall 1 because its servers are/were trashed by apparently a single hacker.
And the Titanfall 2 community kept their game alive by modding the game and adding a custom server browser and custom gamemodes for the game back when the same hackers were attacking the Titanfall 2 servers. Now TF|2 is playable again on vanilla servers but who knows how long that will last.
That's what I find so weird about this Apex's server compromission. 4 months after TF|2 servers are patch it's the Apex servers that are underfire. Imagine if the hacker would find a way to automate waves of bots to render the game unplayable like he automated server crash in TF|2 ?
This is the scariest part. It's EA and Respawn's negligence or ignorance of fixing their games from hackers. It goes to show that modders from the community have more control over the game than the people who created them.
It's pretty much up to Respawn and EA to figure out if they want to make an effort to care for the breadwinner or simply craft another one and hope it does well financially.
The fact they still use stryder baffles me. Despite how many times it has shown how its old age is effecting it, they still decide thats its perfectly safe.
They just need to fix stryder or take it down.
@@Sorrowgrave No thats wrong there was a group that "tried" to combat the "hacker" which they then turned evil to hack tf2 just flooding servers with bots and then did the same with apex and changed the msg of the day to their groups name and they boasted it was all easy cause respawn used the same security layout for all three games all while EA was selling tf1/2 at discount while fully knowing no one could play any of the games for years and apex being down for like 2 days at the same time.
EXACTLY THIS did people forget about titanfall's hackers?
Man it's really cool that talking about anti-cheat is becoming more mainstream now! As a bonus most anti-cheat devs are huge nerds and truly love thier craft. It's very fun to listen to and when the person talking knows WAAAAY more than the normal player real things can happen. Knowledge is power, and is the players have more knowledge then that can help everyone!
Thor - Top tier security specialist, years of experience, many notable achievements, former wielder of the mighty banhammer!
Prime: - Massive security liability, damn near wiped out Netflix on an oopsie......
@@Astraeus.. wait when did prime almost take out Netflix lol
@@imperialis40kthe grizzly bug
normal developer stuff
im so glad you uploaded this whole thing, man
so many people heard you say "I think his machine is compromised" in the first few minutes- punched it in as a headline and clipped it, and now people think Apex is 100% good and these two just have malware...
(WE dON'T KNOW YET).
imo, the most concerning thing is that EA/Respawn have said NOTHING in 30+ hrs...
We know now
@@onikruxThey would probably just say "Dunno, we're looking into it", and since they probably are, what is the point in saying anything?
@@aeswere that's exactly what they posted last night hahah
@@aeswerecommunity communication would be the reason i suppose. its kinda more of a courtesy thing?
This is very interesting stuff. Its really nice to see a dev take on this case.
He’s not just a dev. He’s also a hacker and a cyber security guy he’s got crazy qualification’s and experience
Yeah we got that. He said that multiple times in the video. Cool perspective anyways
@@jjsummerz no shit shirlock
@@jjsummerz oh wow, if only he said that right at the beginning.
@@80AM. calm down, they're trying to help
I love his professionalism he diagnoses watches and pays attention
Thanks for posting this Thor. I was checking in about this since someone else was asking about it and you were the first person that I figured would have the best grasp of the situation!!
How on earth do you get verified as a chicken
@@channingtaintumbro must be chicken
omg it's the legend himself
As a college student in cyber security these things are always interesting and I love the discussion. I always feel like I'm learning more, especially when it comes to the analysis of the issue. Greatly appreciated
As someone who does security, this is exactly what it looks like (PirateSoftware's handling) - you verify every claim, using all the evidence. He drew out the information from the subject matter experts with perfect questions, building out connections where possible. Trying not to make them certain where they're not. Assumptions will kill you as badly as grumpy employees and phishing attacks will. There is a LOT to learn from watching this.
Damn this seems way more kaid back than engineering I may have chosen the wrong career 💀
I've been watching PirateSoftware for MONTHS since he stroked the algorithm and I JUST NOW subscribed.
The Thor/Mande crossover! Unexpected but very welcome 🤝🍻👏
Primagen/Thor/Mande
Primagen called Thor to get an opinion on the hacks and then they invited Mande to join their talk.
Mande just talking gibberish
@@moodmusic4life He was just giving context, he didnt talk technical... tf are you talking about?
Now we need them with Destroyer in a call.
@@moodmusic4life first time I've seen someone not understand what the word "gibberish" means. Impressive.
Thor, after over a decade of working in an ICT Support/SysAdmin role and not feeling great progression, I'm part of site wide lay off but this allows me to upskill...
Watching your videos and streams over the past year and seeing your passion for what you do and did in the past, inspired me into pursuing my interests/instincts in security and analytics.
I absolutely love it!
Thank you for the always informative and enjoyable content, I think I speak for the majority by saying that you're very much an inspiration to to many!
Okay I gotta say, it really felt during this interview that this Primeagen dude just wasnt listening to your answers or tuning out. A couple times he flat out ignores questions you ask him in response, but it was still really fantastic and insightful to hear your views and takes on this stuff coz as you say its very much in your wheelhouse. Thanks for putting this together Thor.
I think its mostly just a case of them not working together that greatly naturally, it happens all the time, people don’t always click or are on the same wavelenghts. They were looking at the problem from diffrent views leading to different interest points.
At least I would think so.
@@SilverTicketlore Dude was clearly reacting emotionally. Was getting extremely specialized feedback from an expert in the field and he just wanted to be angry with Respawn instead of using his brain, and he seemed annoyed that Thor wasn't joining him in that.
Maybe don't rely on 1 single game for income and just expect it to last forever.
Everything else aside, I think its really awesome how you could, and did, give Mande some peace of mind, great overall advice etc. Ofc you do it for your viewers a lot, which is what I greatly respect, but the guy is sounds so clearly relieved after he could vent a bit and had some of his worries put to rest
Thanks for posting this Thor. I was checking in about this since someone else was asking about it and you were the first person that I figured would have the best grasp of the situation [outside the company]. I was not disappointed with the discussion. Great insights on the internal workings within a large company. Keep up the great work.
Nobody seems to have noticed the last option in the "TSM HALAL HOOK" cheat window:
✅ Vote Putin
lol
It seems like the majority of my comments are getting censored on this stoopid website! Anyway, I'm sorry for that...
Look at the last option inside the "TSM HALAL HOOK" window. I can't repeat these word here, apparently... I think it might give us a tiny bit of information about the hacker's physical location, or at least from what kind of demographic he is from.
edit: That's assuming that cheat tool was made by this/these individual(s), which might not be the case.
I am by no means a computer person, and so i always love how Thor explains stuff in a way that is easy to grasp. Very cool video!
you approach these conversations with such empathy when speaking to players. I wish more game companies would communicate with the player base in the ways discussed in this video.
Man literally chose the best legend for the thumbnail.
Representing all middle aged man in the game
“This ain’t me first rodeo, mate”😂
Fusey 4 lyfe
This dialog between gaming professional and IT/cyber professionals is absolute gold
Thank you for cutting this out from your stream to make it easier to find/watch. I love this content but I would miss it as I don't get to watch every or the entire live streams so I am glad this was shared to get the info.
It was genuinely a breath of fresh air being able to hear all sides come together to have open dialogue and discussion about what the problem is, and how each side can play a part in fixing it. Discovering unique similarities because at the end of the day, they share the same goal for wanting games to thrive and succeed.
This is the first ever long video I've seen in on my page from Pirate Sofware, his clips are fucking everywhere for w/e reason, but I just want to say the end of the video shows how good and genuine a human being you are and you. P.S. I sold a WoW account after highschool going into LK don't hate me please, was #1 boomkin in PvE (NA) in BC lol not that I had much competition.
thank you for clarifying the issues and not spreading miss information. it's refreshing to see someone who has a background on these issues and able to explain what's happening "in a simple way" and not jump to conclusions. Me being new here I'm definitely going to be watching more of your content that has to do with hacking since I find it fascinating and uneducated on the matter.
Watched this from Mandes stream yesterday and you blew my mind. Instantly subbed and liked when I saw this pop up on my feed. Thank you for your knowledge and insight!!
"you are in the same side as the devs" such an underrated and powerful comment right there, world is slightly better once you understand this.
@@Ekdrink not really, the amount of people that live thinking the world is against them and any figure of power is using it to make their life horrible...
isn't something only in apex legends isn't something only in videogames industry, people love to think that the world gives them their hardest fights and they endure the worst, world were a bit better if people could understand that shits happens to everyone and that we must work together instead of fighting each other who isn't completely agree with us.
So glad this guy seems to know what he is talking about. So much reactionary content regarding this and people re-formatting (after a quick how do i re format search) their pc.
What is re-formating?
@@magnum3.14 how would i know. Just some word believe I heard somewhere, sounds computerish. There can only by one true magnum btw. Prepare to duel.
@@magnum3.14 When using a new data drive, you have to format it(im not savvy enough to know exactly what formatting does, but it basically allocates space in the drive for the computers to use). Re-formatting means youre completely wiping all data on that drive by allocating that space again. Wiping a drive means there is a high chance of wiping any virusses lodged in it. Wont work on hardware virusses unfortunately but these are extremely rare.
@@Zephiren you are a better person than me, i automatically assumed with a question like that ( can easily be googled) the guy was trolling.
Formatting a block device(storage drive) is simply the process of defining a filesystem of which your operating system can recognize. This is done by first writing your fs metadata and allocating and creating what is called the superblock(typically at the "beginning" of the filesystem) you then you reserve the remaining size of the partition in fixed sized blocks and start to build your reference and inode trees( an inode is essentially just a file). There is a bit more to it but this is a general process of device formatting across most filesystems. The purpose of this is simply to give your operating system some way to logically arrange itself on disk in a way that can be reliably understood
Dude as a fellow security professional, I would LOVE to see more content like this from you. Your knowledge and experience is fascinating and I wanna hear more!
I’ve only seen shorts of Manda occasionally, and hearing him react to Thor’s quick intro absolutely killed me😂
I don’t know how Thor didn’t laugh
hey Thor. Just wanted to thank you for informing us of the dangers between client side and server side stuff. The video was very enlightening of the situations both developers and players have to face. Know that I will be a part of the community that will see what other activities you want to branch out to as well. Thanks as always.
It was great that you were able to have the Apex pro on the stream and talk to them and see their take and perspective. They did a good job of illustrating their feelings and perceptions of the game and talking through the situation. I am glad we were able to see it.
If the stream had just ended with Thor's head in his hands after "What is this, free download, okay, I'm downloading it" it would have been perfect
Some lore on Destroyer2009
Destroyer is a kid who got hardware banned on rust like 5 years ago which sent him down a coding/exploiting rabbit hole. He is a fan of apex who has been developing cheats and finding vulnerabilities in the game for a long time. This level of breach is impressive and I’m curious to know what level of access to the server and or client he really has
Ive seen his name around before in rust too bro wth??? I swear I was griefed by the destroyer2009 on rust ages ago lol.😂
Sounds like something destroyer2009 would comment 👀
Didn't he have a stint on Titanfall 2 that as well?
@@mr.jojomunoz6561 He's just relaying what he heard on Mande's second video with destroyer, doesn't look like many people have seen that video an I advise checking it out lol
Another thing destroyer mentioned was having 200 accounts in queue trying to get into the game, so everyone thinking he's "spawning bots through code" are off the mark xD
Plot-twist: in reality he just compromised 1 employee's pc and 2 streamers' pc, and that's about it.
This was a good interface... A dev, A dev/hacker and a pro player... such a good conversation.
To hear an Apex pro/streamer talking about having to quit the game and possibly lose his career and hearing how genuinely upset and frustrated he sounds is devastating and it feels like it happens so often with so many games
This was really interesting as someone with a tertiary knowledge of security by being in low level IT. It opens my eyes to that there's a lot I can learn about the cyber sec part of IT
Great content, Thank you for posting this... it is awesome and refreshing to hear an intelligent opinion on such a rampant subject... Keep up the great work!!!
it was so cool to hear two of my worlds colliding weigh in on both the dev side and the player side on the issues that Apex has been going through. thanks for the video!
Insanely quality conversation... I enjoyed every second of it and learned so many new things...
I feel like, as a gamer, we really needed to hear all of this. Thank you guys for all of the insight! It really brings a new light to what goes on on the other side of the fence.
I've been watching your shorts for while and this has been the most fascinating video, bc I love apex and tiranfall and have recently wanting to get into cybersecurity. It is awesome to see you at work and try to understand what's going on, in my favorite game.
Your content is simply amazing. I think i learned more with this video than many teachers in my software engineer degree. Thanks for sharing your experience so openly and in a way so clear and easy to understand.
I barely, if at all, know about the specifics that Thor talks about how any of this works, but my main point is that I thoroughly enjoy watching his videos just because of his enjoyment for what he does and how he words everything. Thank you Thor
Imagine being such a Gigachad in cybersecurity industry and be like:
"Nah, my passion is making games and petting ferrets".
Like those Ultimate Samurai with unmatched sword skills who become farmers just for a peace of mind
Not the hero we deserved, but the one we needed
Thor-finn
He's basically a peaceful npc who just so happens to also be the most OP character to fight against.
This is literally the plot of the several games in the Yakuza series
@@yosukehanamura3507Dragon of _Thor_-jima
I was waiting for this upload since I saw the clips of you talking about the apex clips. You were the first person I wanted to hear a POV of. This is gonna be interesting.
Facts, as SOON as it happened I was like “I’m not listening to what anyone says until Thor comments on the situation” he’s arguably the most knowledgeable guy in the area who’s public and forthcoming with information on these subjects.
loved this long format video, it's great to have in the background of sp games
Super interesting to hear your opinion on this kind of stuff. Definitely liked the longer analysis of the situation. It's also nice to hear a better framing of the dev and community relationship, since it is really adversarial in some communities. Thanks for this.
I was so glad to hear you talk about the dev side of things. As a dev myself, it's so sad to see how bad people bash the devs. I can guarantee there are some devs at Respawn that truly hate to see the game in this state, and would love nothing more than to fix it. But unfortunately, they're under EA. If the big boss says "new legend first, bug fixes later", then you have to do it. You can't go rogue or your job is toast and you can't feed your family. It really sucks but at the end of the day that's the reality of it.
I also agree that more companies need much better community relations. For EA, I can probably guess it's about money. They won't dare admit fault or their stock prices tank. At the end of the day, we have to speak with our wallets. Which also sucks because as stated in the video, many people may not encounter the same issues as Mande. In my 3 years of playing Apex, I have personally ran into maybe 1 cheater long ago. So yeah just an unfortunate situation all around.
Yes and no, respawn (the apex devs) have had this problem on almost every game they’ve made, while you’re right what the big boss says goes, you’d think after the 3rd game failing because of hackers you’d have a better plan going into it, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result, is this any different?
While you speak truth, not a lot are going to care. You speak with an insider point of view but people don't want to hear that.
It's hard not to feel antagonistic towards developers when the game keeps getting worse and worse and seemingly all they do is ask 200 euros for a knife.
@DoktorJammified tbf it isn't respawn that sets the prices its ea. Ea says how much money the need/want to make in set amount of time and respawn has to do it or say bye bye to funding and anything else ea provides for respawn
There’s a clip a month afterwards of him on Hal’s account. So it’s absolutely something connected to the server where he can see and use the info. In which case, the client does have enough connection.
His personality denotes that he does get enjoyment out of being outside of extradition. However, he is of enlistment age, so that might be a useful way for the feds in Endgame to handle him.
I have never heard of you before, I've played games you've worked with. Can I just say I am so impressed with how you handle these situations. Your demeanor, and concise explanations are stellar. Thank you for a great video. I learned more than I expected and really appreciate your approach.
4th Most Toxic Scandal On the Planet - 3
FACTS. THE PROGRAMS WERE ALREADY ON HIS COMPUTER
Makes it easier for a hacker know? There malware is already on there
It's defined by IP/VPN to my belief
Not true
A video that sooo many gamers, that don't understand how things are on the other side of the business, should listen to. Thanks Thor :)
I know you don't need the validation, but I love that you respectfully call your chat on BS but still with a firm stance that it's idiotic if it's intentional.
As a game dev who has worked on Core Tech teams, I loved this. Great work from all three or you!
What a great crossover. Thanks for covering it, hope the situation gets resolved for the sake of the game.
I am a qualified electrician and I love how you diagnose and find voluntarilys it's the same as we do it but in more detail
LOL I watch a lot of ThePrimeagen and a bit of Thor
and I watch a lot of apex competitive
This is the crossover I've never expected
I've never heard of ThePrimeagen, is he talking in the video?
@@Joeyfield0 He's the other dude talking to Thor at the beginning/rest of the video sporadically. The other guy who joins midway is some apex player judging by what he's saying about the game.
@@Pixelbendr okay thanks, his channel looks interesting i might check him out
@@Joeyfield0 as Pixelbendr said. To add context, he is a developer at netflix with a large community on youtube twitch and overall super funny and smart guy.
The other guy joining is TSM Mande, but he had a lot of success filling in for apex pros, and this season he was also competing in ALGS with his semi-seriouss team of streamers.
been playing apex since the beginning and started watching your videos a couple of months back...
i really enjoy your content and loved your take on the situation...
keep giving your intakes and the gaming community will evolve, or at least we'll have certain notions unknown to us
thanks for the clarity
"if you're gonna hack... you hack everybody... cause that's just more funny" LMAO thor
As a consistent Apex Viewer in the comp scene and the general streamer community I really appreciate your words Thor. Mande is a good representative I think for the way most of the players feel. Without any recent word from Official Apex sources I will not have Apex content to watch and will choosing not to play Apex for the time being. Will be checking out the Pirate Software content instead since it seems to be made with a lot of thought, consideration, and really good quality audio.
Oh my god i just finished watching the whole thing. This was so fantastic and wholesome,and the pro apex player joing the stream and being validated by thor while also,maybe having their opinions changed a bit by thor was phenomenal
From a purely investigative standpoint, I like the Occam’s razor stuff.
When you’re investigating stuff as an amateur it’s fun, and the want there is to go straight to the craziest theory possible because ultimately that makes it more fun.
You see it all the time with the true crime people.
Such a good analysis and especially the message at the end. Thank you for emphasizing empathy. Cheers.
I learned so much about critical thinking from this conversation. Thanks for doing this Thor
Its crazy how accurate this video is rn with call of duty
Really liked the last part of the vid.
Respawn needs to talk to the community. The community should support them since it's the game they love. All the best to respawns security team!
Would love to see a update on this channel at some point. Great vid!
the weird thing about the whole situation to me is: some days prior to this these players got gifted A LOT of lootboxes (like 10k usd worth or something like it) while livestreaming. It could be possible that these hackers found a way to connect and execute code on the player's clients, but had no way of telling which client was which player. They started gifting those Apex Packs to those who were livestreaming to sort of "connect the dots" and find out which "client ID" was which player.
This is just my theory, could also be anything else as Im not an expert, but seems weird to me that those 2 players BOTH received these packs gifted to them merely days prior to this competition.
We need an interview between Thor and this hacker. Break down approaches, technical details etc. It would be super popular, and help the community or even companies fix things. Vigilante turned a hero.
Love this video. Dives into every nook and cranny regarding the issue of live-service games, vulnerabilities, all that jazz. entertaining and educational the whole way through.
Thor's statements in regards to the attack on developers were perfect and I wish more people reflected the same sentiments online.
In the server-side exploitation section, if Hal is playing on a compromised machine, they could redirect the matchmaking process of HIS game to connect to the hacker's server which would allow that zombie-bot behavior. Or it could simply be that they can join the same player's server, quickly filling it up with these bots of their own. Depends on the process to joining that server.
In any case, it's an interesting video. Thanks!
These are Apex Predator lobbies with real players, and he is dropping 40 bots on them that count as one squad. If you continued watching you would've heard those bits.
@@DoNotFearTheReapa Yeah, I paused and wrote that but I actually kept watching after my comment and what I said was discussed almost verbatim. Hah.
Thor trying to tell this guy "dont put all your eggs in one basket" without telling em
Can we just talk about that apex legends is literally a fork of half life 2's source engine.
Its insane how much they developed it
Yeah I played for years without even knowing that. Plays so different from Source.
Is it ureal engine with source physicks?
This is is also it's Achilles heels atm, some serious audio issues and more seems to be unable to be fixed.
So is both titanfall game the engine is crazy and been in c0nt. Dev for decades btw
I always thought they were using Frostbite...
1:23:26 On radio silence being bad, Last Epoch was a good recent example. The launch week was an absolute mess, the servers were on fire, but you had the CEO of EHG talking in the general chat of a 200,000 member discord channel getting information and reassuring people. Compare it to D4, you couldnt imagine Rod Fergusson for example having open conversation while things are going wrong
Helldivers 2 as well, CEO has been very active, taking feedback and giving updates on Server issues status in real time, it really helped me stick through the bad launch to hear they were working on it and making progress in real time
He was not in general chat, that was the art producer. The mods were deleting messages that flamed them for being radio silent between server crashes. They are still radio silent on alot of issues.