There are many parents that are working night & day to pay for their children's education & this decision to charge VAT is going to be crippling financially for some parents. Surely, it is the govts role to help parents to educate their children because, ultimately, not only the children but the country will benefit if we upgrade the skills of our children & give them a good education.
@@lord_scrubingtonthere are stats about that, you can research. I know parents whose kids attend top schools in Surrey, all on average incomes. In our previous school there were only 2 high earner families that’s all. We had careers etc, it’s about parents giving up on their needs and wants for kids education. I now families which makes large salaries, go on expensive holidays , drive very expensive cars but send kids to bad schools, it’s about parents mind set.
I went to private schools all my life ( primary and secondary). I was ok. My son went to state schools and got A* in all subjects . He could pick and choose his university. Pay if you want but it doesn’t guarantee success.
Actually, one more move the labour party will make will be to force Universities to discriminate against private school pupils when selecting their students. It's a nice and fair two tier system that way.
I was told vat applies to non essential goods and services. Books aren't taxed because they are essential, standard train tickets - essential - no vat, first class train tickets -non-essential - vat, public education - essential - free! no vat, private education - non essential - so it should have vat.
@@kieranmark3450private school non essential? We keep on hearing that the state system is over burdened. Private school, to me, seems a way for the more financially able to alleviate that burden. For one. For two, how is education that is outside of the state framework be non-essential unless you are proposing that education be a monopoly of the state. It should not be. State educational systems were introduced to make education available for all at a time when education was ALL private. How is that 'non essential'? People ask me and my wife why we have a kid in private. (I'm a first generation immigrant, she grew up single parent on benefits household. Imagine our friends circle...) Because we saw it as a social obligatio, 'pushing forward' because we could afford it. The same way we have extensive private healthcare plans. We could've skipped the idea of 'obligation' and instead go on two holidays a year and spend the money abroad buy property to sit on or what not. We don't. We keep it in the country, spending it on education and health when our taxes and national insurance contributions has already spent it on state education and state health. We are not being elitist or anything. We believe in the social system. But the social system as we see it can only exist in the long term when not everyone including the government is on the 'take, take take'.
I had 2 boys in a private secondary school. The younger did his A level in this year. Just in time. I am so happy. It was a mega huge financial sacrifice.
Me to I did the same. It was a huge sacrifice for us. He has just got his business degree. It was worth every penny and every sacrifice. The government needs to fund the state schools. The private schools will win the case 💯💯💯
@@gaynor7947 and is that a plus? 🤷🏽♀️ you want the state to top up in private education? This is wild. Nowhere else in the world is this practiced and I've lived on 3 continents. We really love to feed the top at the expense of everyone else. Propping up the 0.03% who don't even make things better, they just talk to each other, collect huge salaries and let everything fall apart on the rest of the citizenry.
Good for you. But I ask you. How do you feel about the fact that that school you sent them to and paid a hefty price for. Is, in fact, a charity. That's right, a tax-exempt charity.. Not a business. Which is funny. Cos the board make a pretty penny from your excesive payments. They all enjoy tax exempt status. If you buy a Rolls or a Lamgourghini you pay tax. This is no different.
@@howardosborne8647 oh yes, even if true, which it isn’t, four children will destroy the comprehensive system. Do you even think before you post anything?
Education should not be taxed at all - choosing to pay for private schooling does not mean that you are rich or entitled. The state schools in my area can not cope with the children they have. Forcing parents to pull a child from private schooling does not help the state schools either, it just adds pressure! I can guarantee you that state schools won’t see a penny of the money they think they will generate because that’s how labour work! I really hope this case wins!
My daughter is attending a private school after receiving an academic award towards her fees. I took advantage of that as this would give her a better chance in of advancement in education. I am a single mum with 2 children having managed to cater for both of them with no help from the anyone. My son in currently in Univ which has not been easy after being let down by a state school and had to move him to a college wasting 1 year of his schooling . This experience played a part in my decision to take my daughter to a private school. I am struggling on a low income and I am very worried that I might not be able to afford the fees next year. The painful thing is my daughter came to me and said “please mum don’t take me out of the school, please”. It broke my heart. She is currently in year 9 about to start preparing for her GCSE. I think the govt is not fair in charging vat. Very unfair. We are all not very rich in these school.
@@dottyp137 It's not fair that her daughter is getting a better level of education. There are plenty of people struggling in the UK, so why does her child deserve to go a private school?
I think this is all wrong, many parents both work hard and sacrifice so much to pay for a private school education, it is not just the rich people who seek private education but thousands of working people who don’t have many luxuries like holidays abroad etc so they can pay for private education. If these children end up in mainstream schools because of this extra cost, hundreds of schools will be past maximum capacity. Further strain on Teachers and resorces. Further dividing the population. This VAT cost will not be good. I hope this case is won and the government sued for putting all this stress on more people who try their hardest to educate their children .
It’s not about taxing the people who work hard to give their children a better start in life , it’s about closing down schools that are not controlled by the government.
Considering the government's budget requires that tax money for their spending commitments I really don't think it is. If all the private schools closed down they'd be fucked.
@@kapitankapital6580I think many will simply because of the VAT issue which makes it unaffordable for so many especially if you have more than 1 and even worse contending with secondary schools. This has not been well thought through at all by the government. This left wing socialist disaster
@@krishnagondhea7428 private school fees have increased by nearly 60% in the last 20 years, and over this time there has been no significant change in the number of students attending them. These are fairly price inelastic costs, and an additional 10% is highly unlikely to cause significant numbers of students to switch to the local comp.
This is all envy. School fees are paid for after tax, this is the choice of parents, they can spend their money however they please, this is a worrying time, how long will it be before this government which has a dictator at the helm will be telling us how and when we can spend our money which is left over after our taxes have been paid. This is a tax on education. Which school did Rachel from accounts go to?
What illogical rubbish. It is just self-interested whining.I pay my plumber out of taxed income but have also to pay VAT. The same is true of most goods and services, so why should any school be exempt - especially when there is freedom of choice and several thousand state secondary schools in existence? Private school shave had an easy ride over the decades, at the expense of all of us who have as a result had to make up the national shortfall by additional taxation of our income.
There are plenty of private school children who have never been on holiday or to a nice restaurant as the parents have made a life choice that their children's education is more important.
@@kapitankapital6580 when Most people don’t earn enough to pay for one term let alone a year and these people think they are poor. As if going on holiday or eating in any restaurant is not a complete luxury and they are bleating about paying vat. Delusional
Private healthcare costs and so should private education. Your tax contributions cover state schools , not private ones where essentially money is syphoned out of the education system.
Everybody pays for public education and everybody has the right to send their child to a school. If you don't want to take up that offer that's your right, but that doesn't excuse you from contributing. Private education on top of the state education you're entitled to is a luxury, not a necessity, and so should be taxed appropriately.
@@chilloutcentral2097 paying to go to a better school than everybody else absolutely IS a luxury. If all they wanted was an education they are free to go to their local comprehensive.
My own experience as a grandparent tells me that many families, in order to pay for private education, are not rich. They will forgo holidays and other luxuries, in order to get their children a better education. Most are ordinary workers with ordinary jobs. And don't forget they pay twice: once through their taxes and once from their earnings. These private schools scrimp and save in order to provide a good education for their pupils.
Whilst there are families that forsake holidays, luxuries etc to send their children to private schools, that is a minority. The truth is that the majority of private school children come from wealthy upper-middle class families who can afford the school fees on top of being able to pay for luxuries and travel. I’ve done research on this for multiple of my own projects to know this is a fact. Why does everyone forget that if private schools were not a thing more time and money could be invested in state schools? There wouldn’t be a need for “better” schools if state schools were more invested in and there certainly wouldn’t be a need for parents, rich or not, to feel like they need to give their child a privileged option of education if they can afford it. Instead everyone would benefit equally from a fair and highly-standardised education, regardless of their background. Why should some be offered more opportunities or a better education because of the wealth of their parents??
@kstudies111 Seriously!!! You imagine that state schools would be improved, by scrapping private schools, or simply pouring more and more money into a system which is failing! State schools failures are nothing to do with funding! You are deluded!!
But remember they aren't banning private schools. What they are doing is reducing the poorer kids that go to them for usually extreme reasons, SEN, faith, girls school, military family etc. These are the kids labour are overjoyed to have shoved out of schools mid exams, mid year.
why people seems to think all people who go to private school are stinking rich?? My son has just started at a local private school. we don’t live a lavish lifestyle, we drive modest 2nd hand older cars (mine has over 120k miles), we live in a modest mid-terrace house with no drive way or parking. we’ve chosen to live modestly so we can afford to send him to school out of salary. most family who send their kids to private schools are in similar situation. we are not talking about eaton or even boarding schools. it stinks of just jealousy. As an immigrant, i’ve noticed most people in the UK would prefer to spend tons of money on going on holidays and tons of money on driving the best cars and biggest mortgages they can’t afford. but those who want to use their money for education, what they think is more important, are being penalised and see as “rich”. When my son is finished in 5 years I’m out of the UK. Yes, I am an immigrant and I know i’ll never be British. I’ve paid taxes, never taken benefits. I’ll let you have your country back as that’s what you want. when WW3 starts with Russia just don’t come to us in the commonwealth again asking us to fight for Britain.
No one has an issue with immigrants like you,it's just people are fed up as we have enough bad people of our own and the government seems intent on importing anybody into Britain,with no checks,often adding to our own bad people at our own expense.Also the Commonwealth didn't just help save Britain,it helped save Britain AND the Commonwealth countries from falling to Nazi Germany,which wouldn't have been fun!
🤡 good riddance. Go and pay taxes in your home country and see if you can make it better, rather than running away to the UK and trying to get something for nothing.
I love rich people who get annoyed by this law and then pretend to be working class in the comments. Its always the same NPC bullshit. This bad. Not Rich. We have second hand cars (emphasis on car's Plural). we not Rich house no have driveway. we live modestly. No you don't you live in a cushy decently built house with up to date heating and electrics and a house you BROUGHT, not brought out to rent.....with 3 cars and your annoyed cause it means only 4 holidays in the year instead of 5...shockingly you may have to go somewhere horrid....like centre parks which for toffs is hell cause only the middle class people go there.
I was with you until "it just stinks of jealousy" Awww man, you ruined it😅 Nobody is jealous, we understand that you're potentially raising the next middle class. You just have to pay your share, like everyone else does. I'm sorry your feeling perturbed by this additional tax but think of how proud you'll be of your lil valued member of society when you tell your friends and family what they do for a living 😊 Eyes on the prize
@@Nousmourronsseuls You Sir/Ma'am sound like a typical failed indigenous Brit (as am I) and we've been living in the past for years. This commentator is bang on the button and gives a reason why we are now completely outclassed in just about everything. Most nations are now well ahead of us and indeed the 5 best educational systems are all in the Far East, Finland being the only European nation in the top ten. Russia doesn't want to invade, nor China, and after 34 years in HM Forces I can say with some experience we couldn't defend the Isle of Wight. The UK now rewards bad parents & wasters whilst living of the backs of industrious foreigners who in general, like this commentator, take nothing. Take a good look around I respectfully suggest and note the shambles we've become.
My daughter went to a wonderful private school in her early years where amongst all else discipline and manners were instilled as a matter of routine. We moved after my business failed due to overheads. She went into a local state school and within weeks the Head called us in and advised we take her out quote "before she is ruined in here" This is why most who can afford it send their children to private schools.
What utter nonsense. More than fifty years ago I went from a comprehensive school to Cambridge University, and have never looked back. Once I had sat the entrance examination (the easiest test I have ever faced in my entire life), I was by return offered a place on condition that I secured just two grade E at A-level. I was not even asked up for an interview, as my college, Churchill, which has 32 Nobel laureates in its rolls which would make it the fifth country so ranked were it a country and not a college only at one university), so obviously the professors liked what they saw in my examination performance. As indeed the tutors told me when I matriculated. I actually secured six A(S) levels at the age of 17, so the state sector did not hold me back. I am still proud of being a life member now that I am seventy years of age of the most demanding and prestigious academic scientific institution in not only this country but in the whole of Europe. Public school would undoubtedly have held me back and would have served me badly with its petty rules and regulations and in many instances innate mediocre, soul- crushing and intellect-stultifying dogma. That said, the great majority of my fellow students were from public schools, which was a learning experience on both sides but I never once in residence encountered the least snobbishness form anyone. And, I responded in like mind. Many of my fellow students are still lifelong friends, even though death culls our numbers annually.
My two grand children go to private school I work full time and have a second job as a career in a care home I order to help my son pay the school fees. So that’s two generations of tax payers making sacrifices to support the third generation to access private education because we could not secure a place in our nearby state school. We cannot afford to pay another 20% on top of what we already pay so my grand children will have to move to a state school in January to finish their GCSE and A Levels. I am certain this upheaval will affect their wellbeing, confidence and final grades. Has labour given any thought to long term effect this will have on our children or their parents and grandparents who feel that, for all their investment in their education, because of labours decisions they have set them up to fail.
This is direct discrimination against one section of the community BY A GOVERNMENT. NO OTHER EDUCATION OR TRAINING PAYS VAT and the people opting for private education STILL PAY THEIR PORTION OF TAX INCOME WHICH ONCE PAID FOR THEIR CHILD in public funded education.
@ECECECECEC Nope! Some people work two jobs and massively struggle to put their children in private education. Anyway why should a child have to pay the price?
My child is in an independent school and this VAT won’t make any difference to me or the majority of other parents. It’s the minority who scrimp and save to afford it who will be priced out. It will now be even more unattainable. The truth is there are great teachers in the state sector but they have so much to contend with due to years of underfunding and other social issues. We should follow the Finnish model and abolish private schools so that everyone in society is invested in ensuring state education is fit for purpose.
@@balders6095that’s besides the point. They could have implemented a 1% wealth tax on the very wealthy if that was what they were trying to achieve, it’s to price ordinary people out of being able to send their children to private school because who the heck do you think you are. It’s to ensure inequality is thriving and kicking. Wake up.
Not preparing him for the real world then? Or will you see he goes on to a monastery?There were more than 30 in my classes at my comprehensive and the rough and tumble prepared me for life at Cambridge university from that school.
If you can do it for such reason,you are wealthy, it really depends who measuring up to. . Perhaps the fees would be better used for a therapist first to see if the issue is disorder based or development based. See that’s what may parents who cannot afford it do, because private is just not an option.
@@MarkPayne-k7l real world or not real world depends how you look at it. The aim is not to get into Cambridge, but to develop his confidence from the age of 4 to 10.....
@@TGIF82 therapist? Yes, I listened to expert. At this age, the environment is the most important to develop his confidence, not just an hour of consultation a week....
@@haha4581 Understood, and I am no pyschologist but confronting one's demons even at his age can work wonders for development. As I say, no psychologist and presumably you have explored all options, so I see and accept your point in your case. Is there not help from the authorities if your lad has a recognized condition?
Absolutely horrible decision to tax education from Labour. Good state schools are oversubscribed already. Many parents are already struggling with the cost of living and now have additional burden if they want a good education for their kids. Many private schools are giving scholarships to talented kids and they would lose this if private schools income is severely affected.
Rich people are not struggling under the cost of living unless you mean "they had to sell a horse" but no they are doing fine. Private schools are a business, you pay for the Service expect VAT's simple.
In the UK, private schools are required to demonstrate that they provide a public benefit, and the Charities Act 2006 and 2011 confirmed that the advancement of education is a charitable purpose. Now that Private Schools are to pay Tax and VAT why are they going to share their facilities with local state schools? In short, the Government gains with more Tax, Parents of the pupils at the private school lose money and the local community loses access to such things as sports fields, halls, swimming pools etc, etc. Is this the master plan of the Labour Government or a policy driven by envy?
local community loses access to such things as sports fields, halls, swimming pools- No if anything the VAT could make more for public access, what the hell are you talking about?
Quite right. it should be simple multiple-choice one-word answer questions only at exam time. Like some dreadful game shows.They are not taxing at all.
@@EdwardOberon yea its private which ultimately is something a good deal of us do not care about. Oh,no the poor privately educated rich kids. Give me a break.
Maybe in the first year or two, for SOME of them, but not thereafter or in perpetuity. THAT is how it works, just as for any other business that has to charge VAT on its supply of goods or services.
When they register for VAT they will beable to claim back all the VAT they have paid for the previous10 years, so all vat on food, cleaning services, maintenance, building works, car/minibuses etc will have to be paid back to the schools. Putting VAT on private schools is despicable, not all parents are wealthy many make great sacrifices to educate their children, also they are saving the government money as very few receive any money from the education authority, some special needs children may receive a grant from the local education authority but only in exceptional circumstances and only to the limit of state school funding.
@@peterloup2302 They can't do that, it applies to everything or nothing. If you charge VAT then you can off set the charge against expenses( vat paid) before you pay it to the Tax office ( Vat in -fees minus Vat out -expenses = Tax office) , When you include everything , heating , water, services the tax office may receive very little money, it is really only the parents that are penalised. ex-accountant
Unfortunately ministers in this government don’t have any business experience, they don’t realise that private schools taking big burdens from State schools hence saving of government money, in fact government should give some funding to private instead of penalising them with imposing VAT
I don’t think they care. These things are just vote winners. Just like the tax on 2nd homes which the previous government quietly pushed onto companies.
Theyre not taking any burden from state schools since privates schools are filled primarily with kids from rich families - the schools that actually need help are the oversaturated poorer schools that can't afford to take on the swell of kids from struggling families, they couldn't even afford the board much less actually attending these private schools. So no that's bs the only people benefitting are the rich while the poor drown. Not to mention private schools are a business - they make profit, it's not done to benefit the everyman in any way shape or form and thus should be taxed. As for bringing in foreign students, again the only people benefitting from rich foreign students that can afford to board, travel often and attend these expensive schools ARE the rich schools they attend - none of that money goes to the country or to the education of anyone but the top percentile. It's not like tourism where that money is spent at different local shops/attractions that then get put back into the economy - all that cash goes directly into the private schools pockets, with nice big bonuses for the owner and Dean.
I’ve not had a fire in my house and I’ve not declared war on anybody I think it’s unfair I have to pay tax for services I never use. I think I will take the government to court
It’s about time they were charged vat. Along with banning anybody educated at Eton from entering politics. We’ve seen and had enough of that thank you.
Lucky Lord Pannick. I would have done it for one-tenth the amount he is being paid. And, the result would have been exactly the same. The independent schools must be swimming in cash if they can just throw what will be a huge sum of money away in a fir of most unattractive pique. In a sense, they are making the government's case for it and their action shows that they will not be suffering hardship at all as a result of VAT imposition. Most people could never afford legal fees in the first place, even when right is on their side.
It’s disgusting! Parents have already paid tax on their hard earned money and should be able to invest in their children’s education! The government should be thankful because these schools take some of the strain off the already over stretched education system!
@@traceyellis7399 well Kier Starmer who is an envious individual left wing narcissist doesn’t see it that way. This decision shows the type of mind he has
This tax is driven by misguided jealousy and ignorance! If Reeves had done any research she would have understood that most parents with kids in private schools make significant sacrifices to afford their fees. Most dont frequent pubs and expensive restaurants; nor do they go on expensive foreign holidays!! All that has to wait until the kids have flown the nest and finished their education!! Think again Chancellor!!
@@MarkPayne-k7l a man of your superior intellect would surely know there is no such thing as an explanation mark, Mark! Write to me again when you get out of junior school. By then you should know what an exclamation mark is, Mark! In the meantime stop being a Payne!!
Bollocks. You trot that crap out like you've said something so stunning. And it's crap. I want a fair chance for all kids. Equally. Because that's how society grows and thrives. Pay fucking tax.
We have a grandson with learning issues who attends a private school because his parents deem his education needs worth paying for his attendance. They sacrifice so much to find the money and now a vindictive communist government with millionaire leaders removes their rights. One other thing didn't the EU question the legality of this move as being in breach of the dreaded ECHRs
Vindictive communist government Oh my god mate this is not a communist government like Jesus, can tell your making this whole comment up, probably not even from the UK just some gormless slav I'd imagine pretending to be outraged
@@EdwardOberonit removes children from public schools which eases their financial burden. The law requires private schools to meet the same standards as public schools so where is the value added part, better schooling!
@@johnmansell5097if private schooling simply equated to the public education system, we would not have private schools. They are better, they produce higher grades. There is your value
@@johnmansell5097They also have holidays outside the state school calendar saving thousands a year - there’s the catch up money. Drop the skiing trip and The Maldives and pay the VAT like the rest of us have to.
@EdwardOberon next you will be saying they should add VAT to private hospitals! Typical clueless thinking. Some families are on long waiting lists and in pain so they use private. Similarly some areas schools underperforming and good ones full ! so as a parent they have no choice but private. Ok next time you cant get a bus dont take a private hire taxi. If u do hope they add Vat !
All those spiteful people who are happy for private schools to get taxed, please realise that those kids from private schools whose parents can no longer afford private will take the places in best state schools leaving fewer places for your kids.
I have taught in private schools and many of the parents are not rich and struggle to give their children a good education. These children prove to be successful tax payers. This is a self defeating decision by the Labour government which will harm the wealth of the UK.
Oh right, so they will pay tax, eventually. But not quite as much as poorer people. And bull shit. My husband went to public school. What to know how many kids in his year were poor? 1. That's one. Just one. And guess what. I went to state school and got my degree. He didn't. He failed his exams. Come one here lying. Right wing are we. Cry me a river. I'd rather have public services to care for mental health, I'd rather have good education for ALL children...and to get that, you need to pay tax. Grow up.
Sure, what you say rings true for some. The emphasis here is on ‘some’. Kids I know in this position wish their parents had not sacrificed and been more of a ‘happy’ family that did have more things going on for them like disposable cash. The far far far greater majority of people attending private schools will not have to worry about the tax as their parents can easily afford it. A heavy class system, a 2 tier society is all about things like private education.
@ I don’t think that’s true at all re; the far far majority of people not being effected by the tax. The school which my daughter attends a few have already left due to the anticipated tax coming into force in January. And a number a due to leave by next summer. It’s a disastrous decision and the consequences for the state schools is going to be awful. Regarding decisions to put your child through private school, well let me tell you that there is a massive difference between the two sectors in our area. 32 children vs 12 in a class plus the nurture and discipline good etiquette they are learning. Basically modelling a certain type of citizen for the future society. Why can’t the state offer this? This is the question to be posed to Starmer. And the vast majority of individuals I know who have been through the private system and whose parents struggled to send them there have said they wouldn’t change it for the world. Especially those who were in the middle somewhere and needed pushing where the state didn’t provide it. Some were bullied in state schools and then moved to private school and the bullying stopped. So the benefits outweigh greatly.
Rubbish. Finland has one of the best education systems anywhere, and they actually do not allow private schooling. I think we should follow their example.
Like some other points in the Budget, this particular decision seems petty, short sighted and desperate, with yet another bureaucratic cost and precious little benefit - will it end up costing us as taxpayers in the long run ?
I hope they win. They pay for their kids education on top of all taxes they already pay. This saves the government money as they don’t have to find state school places for them.
@@lemons2135 Why don't you just show how ignorant you are by assuming that everyone who sends their kids to a public school is filthy rich, and that many of them aren't normal working families who save hard to be able to afford it. Oh, you did, never mind! Labour, the politics of Envy.
@@lordprotector3367 Interesting name choice, but if we are talking about Children who went to Public School I think Little Kier is a better example. But hey, he's alright now, haul that ladder up.
My daughter was SA at her state school. She was given a fresh start in a private school. How dare Labour take my daughter’s protection, sanctuary and stability! Same on Labour. I’m a widow, and I’m not rich but my children are protected and educated. Who do these people think they are taking away the safety that my child’s school provides that state could not! 🤬🤯
@@sheriffjbunnell2392the state school allows four boys to g**g r**e my 13yo after being repeatedly assaulted and stalked at the free state school. After the trial my daughter had enter a private school at huge cost. This school she attends has in her year 13 people. Her safety is assured by 3/1 teacher pupil balance, cctv and safe spaces for traumatised children. 20% on 30k is a joke when the state will NOT have her back in the system due to the trial! So this tax places me in a position of paying more to a corrupt government or taking her out! She is a child survivor and doesn’t deserve to be a guinea pig for this delusion government!
So if they have to pay vat now, people who go private should not have to include a contribution to state schools Also the schools can claim vat back in everything Starmer really has no businesssense at all The council will have to pay for schooling at home as there are no state school places left It just makes no sense, the government will have to fork out more money, they’re stupid to the nth degrees😂😂
I imagine the schools can claim back the VAT, and can the reimburse it to the fee-payers. But the end result of charging a tax that can be claimed back is that the exchequer will raise no new money. So are they doing this for some other reason? Or do they just not know how the system works?
My child’s school has said we are having to pay 12.5% of the VAT and they will absorb the rest. But then there’s the yearly fee increases of £900 a year so it’s going to be bank breaking eventually
If you’re talking about Finland you are also talking about a country where teachers are respected, very well paid have huge benefits including, O think, sabbaticals. Well funded well regarded. It makes a difference…..
Cause the rich don't steal the best teachers, equipment and resources and instead actually bother to fund and maintain the education system that everyone else uses.
1) Last time I checked the International School of Helsinki was private. 2) In the 2022 Pisa scores, Singapore came top. The country has a variety of private schools.
To be more precise, my alma mater, Churchill College at Cambridge University, has 32 Nobel laureates on its roster, which is more than all but four countries in the world including our own. And that achieved in only sixty years since it opened. It is the most demanding and prestigious scientific research and educational institution in the world. I am proud to be a life member of that institution and also would challenge your assertion. Oh, and I went to a sink comprehensive school by the way.
I would like to see the basis of which they are bringing a Judicial Review challenge to this policy. One possible claim would be based on Article 2 of Protocol 1. However, the problem I see with such a claim is the opinion of Lord Bingham in Ali v The Headteacher and Governors of The Lord Grey School. In that case Lord Bingham held that there is no entitlement to a particular school.
What a hackneyed, meaningless expression which is spouted so often by those of limited intellect and near-zero debating abilities who fail dismally to understand the basic concept of fairness....in this case of taxation across all levels of society and activity. It is nothing to do with "envy" and everything to do with fairness in a civilized society. It ranks alongside other pieces of drivel such as is mouthed by those of poor intelligence who like to say that bright people "lack common sense". If anything, the expression "politics of envy" comes out of those who are fulminating with impotent anger and, yes, envy at others who can express themselves in experience-based and fact-based rational and objective discourse.
I contribute to estate schools through my taxes and chose to wave the benefit of sending my child to a estate school for a better education. Now I have to pay VAT on top of that. Petty, populist, shortsighted, hypocrite from private educated ministers.
What utter nonsense and bitter personal prejudice. I went from a comprehensive school to Cambridge University more than fifty years ago, and have never looked back. So what is all this drivel about "destroy(ing) social mobility.What a histrionic posting given that all we are debating is fairness and even-handed treatment across all sectors under the national taxation system.
@@MarkPayne-k7l So I'd moot you didn't go to a sink comp Mark but a twee Middle-Class one in a nice area, or were an exceptional gifted child. We had the same situation with the abolition of the Grammar Schools. Now I'm a Sec-Mod boy who perhaps didn't have your benefit or privileges and was condemned by an 11+ exam as a post-war boomer. I think Norman here has a point, we are returning to the days pre The Nats. You only have to look out the window to watch the slide of a nation into ignorance. And I wouldn't get too whiffy about Cambridge, ... It's the faculty that matters, and like everything in our failing nation we live on past glories I fear. Basing a population study on a sample of one is a bit dodgy too! Like the geezer who quotes the guy smoking 60/day who lives to 100! Fairness and even-handedness would mean we all get taxed at say 10%... and all benefits were abolished, for everyone.
@@johnbobson1557 Do you usually call perfect strangers a liar? Only people who are themselves liars by nature do that. Be that as it may, you come across as astonishingly bitter. Is it too late for you to try to make something out of your life, or do you prefer to sneer and deride others who have done so? Please do try to get a life, John.As for Cambridge, whatever you in your suppurating bitterness at life may think, I am proud to be a lifelong member of Churchill College which was and still is the most prestigious and exacting academic scientific teaching and research establishment in not only the UK but in the whole of Europe. You are wrong in your derision. Churchill alone has 32 Nobel laureates on its roster, which is more than all but four countries in the world including our own. Have you seen the film Carry On Sneering?
@@johnbobson1557 By the way, what do you know about my "benefit or privileges"? Do you mean that I was able to walk and breathe oxygen from quite an early age?Do you have any idea how stupid you actually sound with your blind hatred towards someone with a start in life no better than yours and perhaps worse? I remember East Enders before "East Enders"....and then some. Hell, I can even still do the rhyming slang although my pearly suit was binned long ago.
Most forward thinking Country’s with better education systems than ours (Sweden, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Singapore etc, etc) actually offer tax benefits and education is tax deductible. That’s a forward thinking long term growth approach. Another short sighted Labour tax on aspiration which will hit those struggling the hardest.
i thought i was doing the children a good thing for a good education and saving the government money next term they can start at public school let it costs the tax payer now f em
As you were, by your own account, paying school fees as a favour to the rest of us why not just donate that money to the Treasury so you can carry on pretending to be a saint?
@@balders6095 Oh no it's not! that "person" obviously lacks any form of even a BASIC education, and i doubt if they are even British! if you see it you see it if not, you're not one of my people!!!!😉
I think it’s a disgrace these children are our future and it’s a tax on the people who work hard to earn the right to send their children to private schools some state schools need to do better.
disgusting if parents want to send their children to private school they should not be penalised for it a lot of parents go without so they can give their chikdren a good start
It's a choice as with any goods or services. I pay income tax but if I want any of these I expect to pay taxes on them. The whole private school system is cutting out poorer but intelligent children from a lot of opportunities. This is why we have so many rich privileged people in positions of power. I'm sure that there are quite a few Labour ministers who will also be paying these taxes as well which is their choice. Hopefully this money can be used to give all children the same opportunities in the state system.
@mookyzook my kids go private school, 20 per cent of kids are from poor backgrounds on full scholarships that I pay for with my fees. Why are you talking about something u have no idea about. Mu taxes are paying for state schools I am not using and my private school fees are paying for more state school kids to go private. How am I the bad guy in this ?
@@KH-he5fpso that’s good, so VAT is actually helping to boost scholarships. You are priveledged to have kids private, great, support those kids who are less fortunate or put your kids to state schools and you can invest those fees there.
Everyone needs to understand that this decision affects children with disabilities and young children at nurseries too. This is not just for Eton and Harrow, but for all forms of private education. The idea of putting VAT on special school is downright evil!
No its not its logical, Private schools are a business providing a service, you should expect a VAT for a service same way as you would for anything else and don't bring disabled kids into this, I worked in a private clinic for a while and you rich folks LOVE to dump your severely disabled kids there and forget about them, don't act like you send them to private school you don't, you move em out of eye site. I know because I've seen it.
Good for them. Despite being ordinary working class,my wife I went without' and sent our son to a public school,even though paying for the state schools through the rate system,and at 84 we are still paying for it I don't regret one penny of the fee's,and this because of labours disastrous Shirley Williams.
They should. People who pay for private schools are already paying for state schools, and they’re likely paying more than the average person towards them too. The general public get the benefit of a schooling system that is worth more than what they put in. If a group of people want to get together to offer different schooling options, why should the government act as a barrier?
People who do not have children have been paying for state schools and other services for children without complaint. They are not asking for tax exemptions.
@ That’s not a cogent argument. If childless people are not paying for private schooling, or any schooling at all, what would they be asking for a tax exemption on? If the argument was, people who ‘pay for private schools should get a tax refund, you’d have an argument, but that’s not what’s happening here.
@@seesidesummerhouse6112I agree with your point. However the original post was complaining that fee paying parents pay for other children to go to state school. I was making the point that all tax payers pay for children to go to state school.
Absolutely fabulous policy. Ashamed to say I've worked for these overpriviliged toffee nosed business and they need heavily taxing. They exist in another country
How? It won’t stop or hurt wealthy people sending their children to the school, it’ll only hurt the little people. It ensures normal people will never be able to afford private school. That’s what this is about.
VAT means value added tax so what value is there in paying for your children to be educated to a higher standard I can see if you bought a car its a tax on the purchase of goods but with education its not a material object its more like a bus ride or ataxi ride atrain ride all of which do not charge VAT and when you have finished your ride or your education you have no material goods to show for it
I don't know what the Labour's is thinking. They made a wrong assumption that number of students in private school would not decrease. The fact is the international students will not come and local private school students go back to state school. Private school will close, so how the hell you can get your money? What a no-vision government !
Maybe that’s what they want. Imagine thousands of students flooding into the state school lists. We will see a record high of kids being out of school because there aren’t enough places.
@ tory toff alert! Actually... tory toffs dont usually even bother with these things... you must belong to that exquisite group of poor people who are just so thick they think the tories actually care about them 😂
@@lordprotector3367how can a private school not be a charity? They are removing a child from the burden of the state whilst not asking the state for a penny back. That sounds very charitable to me?
@@chilloutcentral2097 The point is that with an independent spirit and application (and good health of course) one can do anything. Schools do not matter. I took myself out of classes at the age of 15 to educate myself with books of my choice and secured six A(S) levels. And no, my parents did not help; if anything they were unable to cope with the situation. If I can do it so can many others. And, I did it fifty years ago when it was just about unheard of. As for the less academically gifted, no school is going to help them anyway but they can devote their lives to pursuing what they are good at. Everyone can develop excellence in something good and/or useful Just not always in what selfish parents push for. Schools only hold pupils back, state and public....perhaps the independent ones most of all with their soul and mind-crushing petty rules and procedures.I know that i would never have succeeded if i were so unfortunate that my parents were wealthy. Luckily for me they were very poor.
@@angelh5762 I am seventy years old. I do not think one would take me. An independent school probably would though, as long as I had the money for the fees. As Private Eye says about them, the motto of St Cakes is "Qui pagat entra".
I live in France where every child receives the same allocation of tax payers money and then you can choose to top up if you decide to privately educate you children. It’s a added tax on already the highest tax payers. Just not fair / just not right
VAT is levied on food in France. Is that "fair" or "right", or are you just suffering a little from selective memory and/or judgement? As my (comprehensive) school French teacher used to quip...."J'ai grand faim", and "No, that does not mean that I have a big wife". Good enough for an education, or what?
@@MarkPayne-k7l So if we agree to put VAT on food, will you be okay with us removing it from private education? I'm just trying to understand your reasoning.
@@georgesdelatour My reasoning is very simple. Food is vital for life or we die. Private schooling is not, it is a luxury and actually not necessary at all for determined pupils to succeed in life.Vital goods and services aside, VAT should be levied on everything or on nothing at all That is simply basic logic in a civilized society. Private schools are non-essential businesses and what they offer for money should be taxed accordingly. My point is even more simple and clear. If a poster moans about VAT on private schooling and tells us (correctly) that it is not levied in France, then he should have the intellectual rigour and honesty to also tell us (again correctly) that the french prefer to levy VAT on food instead whereas we are free of that burden in the UK.
@@MarkPayne-k7l “VAT should be levied on everything or on nothing at all. That is simply basic logic in a civilised society.” If that was true, it would mean that there are NO civilised societies anywhere on the planet. No society has ever existed which applies the same sales tax rate to everything, or to nothing. Even in France, which I assume you consider to be barbarous and uncivilised, they don’t apply the same VAT rate to all categories of food. The highest rate only applies to specific luxury foods and alcohol. It’s arguable that we only have a civilisation if we can go beyond basic caveman-level survival such as finding food. We don’t need art, music, architecture, poetry, literature for that basic, caveman-level survival. But civilisations exalt these things precisely because they are civilised. I believe that Labour’s real motivation in this VAT change is not to raise taxes but to force more children to attend leftist indoctrination centres. People like Bridget Phillipson loathe the home-schoolers exempting their kids from the state system every bit as much as they loathe the fee-payers. Yet they don’t mind rich people getting their kids into “better” Comprehensives by buying houses in the expensive catchment areas. Those rich kids will get a better education from their parents’ wealth, but they will still be indoctrinated, and that’s what really matters to her. Phillipson and co are totalitarians, who have cleverly distracted their headbanger base by making the issue seem to be about money. It’s really about mind control.
@@georgesdelatour I agree with you entirely, Georges. However, I do consider France to be one of the most civilized countries in the world and possibly the most civilized. My point about taxation and civilization is that thus far in history my wishes have been an ideal rather than something that has actually as yet been realized. Your point about differential VAT rates in France is valid but does not negate my central argument. As for your sound appreciation of the political undertones to education now, first they will not last as this government is a one-shot pantomime. Secondly, I am rather envious at state school pupils now as when I was a teenager I would simply have loved to challenge my teachers on a non-stop basis about their logic, drivel and half-baked theories. Hell, I may even have gone to some lessons just in order to do that. It would have put a rapier edge on my mind even faster than I was able to do when I was a youngster.
Private schools are a business, providing a service. As such, like any business they attract VAT. They have just been getting away with it. With the exception of purely special needs schools, where is the argument. Spare us the violins and the whining.
You're right Mairi... but wasting your time with us Brits. We do produce a pretty good class of hooligan though these days judging by all the oiks stabbing each other. The Orientals academically out-class us now by miles! They are moving the good schools there... It's complex, but our days are over!
Rich people should pay more tax to support education so kids don’t need to have a private education. These people can easily afford to pay more and the fact that some private schools are also registered charities is an abuse. They are not the Poor Schools of the Victorian era!’
My friends are/were teachers in a Private School which had to close up in September due to these financial changes. I can categorically say that the greater majority of those kids who attended that school were not from rich families rather from families who preferred smaller more intimate style of education.
It’s genuinely stupid. A lot of parents won’t be able to afford the higher fees so their children are about to be forced into the state school system. And there aren’t places for them. Nor is there funding to make places for them. It’s a disaster for education policy in the U.K. But hey, all that matters is envy politics. By the way, when Rachel Reed was asked what she enjoyed about chess as a youngster her answer was “I liked beating rich boys from posh schools”. She is the walking embodiment of the green eyed monster.
@@thefirm4606it will not improve the results of the local comp, it will merely reduce the standards of the private sector down towards the state sector, making the look more competitive. It’s a nonsense.
@thefirm4606 how will it improve local comprehensive schools? Are the comprehensive going to get better teachers? No Are the teachers already there going to be forced to have bigger classrooms so each child gets even less education yes. Will this be a bigger burden on the uk tax payer YES because thousands of kids across the country from working and lower middle class families who's parents work two jobs fulll time and sacrifice everything to send their kids to local schools Which the tax payer will now need to pay for. And in the long run will lower the education standards for all ESPCIALLY those kids. Meaning the county as a whole gets more stupid
As we all know, parents of independent schools work extremely hard( I am a medic and working day and night for 7 days a week), more so than state school parents, to pay school fees. According to statistics, there are 2600 independent schools in the UK with 615,000 children studying in them. Independent school parents have chosen to invest in their children's future, alleviating the burden on the government. Imagine if these 615,000 children were in state schools, the government would face challenges absorbing the costs of education, staff salaries, and maintaining 2600 schools. As a parent(Medic), and I'm sure other parents share this sentiment, we work tirelessly, including weekends, to provide the best education for our children. Our demanding schedules leave little time for socializing or family activities. Given the current economic crisis, there's no room for an increase in school fees with the proposed VAT. This is not exceptable at all to penalise hard working parents. Why can not government charge big businesses and wealthy people similar system based on their wealth to tax 20%, 40%, or 50% just like they tax our monthly salary.
Well Starmer is saying they will be using the VAT money to recruit more teachers in the state sector. I say good luck to that. Unless your offering teachers a salary of like £55k why would they join the profession with all the constant hard work involved? And large class sizes not to mention the additional children joining state schools from private because of the VAT and parents being unable to afford it
Russia declared war on us a few years ago with a chemical weapons attack in Salisbury. Do you not care that a UK citizen was murdered there, just because it was not you or a member of your family?
The rich send their children to private schools not for the fallacy of a better education but for the status, privilages and contacts. Hence the term, "old school tie", a rich group loyalty associated with people who attended private school getting appointments over others because of it. Personally I believe education has evolved into an industry and the government has a right to introduce VAT for private education.
But they’ve already paid tax on their income and everything else like everyone does. Why should they have to pay tax on education? You don’t pay tax on any other education!
And the independent schools will charge the costs of hiring Pannick and his mates to the parents through increased fees. I would far prefer the additional tax revenue to be used to heat the homes of needy pensioners. Government is about choice.
I still don't get it why do you need to pay so much money for your kids to be educated in a private school, while the government provides free education, the only reason to give your kid some kind of an a advantage because you know they are stupid.
Right thing to do. Go to state school if you can’t afford private ! There should not be private school but there should be a school equal to every one ! Not just for the rich
Private Schools are not Charities they are profit based Businesses & as profit making businesses are the same as any business to make money & as such are subject to VAT, like the business I ran. The Charitable status of Private Schools was intended to provide education for the poorest in society, started in 1601 not for the richest 7% as a for profit Business they should pay VAT.
I’m not in the 7% I’m a carpenter that chooses to send my girl to a private school because her choices of schools were inadequate. Why should I be punished for state education failure.
@@davidedwards1227 but that’s where your wrong. Not all of us in the 7% are rich. Working damn hard to send a child there and only £50 left at the end of the month!
Many of them are also run to prey on vulnerable and insecure parents with their chimera-like promises of better life chances. Why do not these parents instead endlessly lobby parliament for better standards in state education, if they really believe that their children would be so poorly served in one such establishment. I went from a comprehensive to Cambridge University more than fifty years ago and have never looked back. Why would anyone want to waste their money on an independent school when with application and determination a healthy child can achieve their full potential by not going to one?
There's a independent school called buxlow in north west London and is two old houses with little facilities and is neighbouring a huge state school with many facilities it's such a shame to see that tiny run down independent school have to pay for that advance school next door.
this accounts for a very small portion of the population of England. If you can pay thousands of pounds per term for your child to go to school that means the school is making a huge profit. So pay your way. I just about get by every month, I could never afford a term much less years at a private school and get taxed horrendously. But I pay and shut up. The real reason Why we are here is because the rich don’t want to pay their way so they protest and take the government to court. How about we just all stop paying taxes. Let’s do that.
So basically they are making people pay Double Tax, Tax on their incomes and Tax on their childrens education. That is what is called Double dipping! What next tax on the tax that you've already paid tax on?
They are "making" no-one do anything of the sort. You have freedom of choice and do not have to use the services of a public school. Or in your particular case is the government sending the police to your house to compel you to do so? Please do tell, otherwise please do not spout such drivel.
What? That makes no sense. U pay for private service it includes VAT. The state offers your child education, you choose to go private for whatever reason,u pay VAT. It’s not a rocket science.
@TGIF82 Education is fundamental and involves children's lives deeply. Some countries reduce your tax for saving the state money, ie.every tax payer's money, if you choose private education. It's not like buying a car or eating out.
You haven't a clue, have you? If I buy goods and services and pay vat on those, that's not double taxation. Private schools are no different, no reason why they should be exempted.
There are many parents that are working night & day to pay for their children's education & this decision to charge VAT is going to be crippling financially for some parents. Surely, it is the govts role to help parents to educate their children because, ultimately, not only the children but the country will benefit if we upgrade the skills of our children & give them a good education.
A lot of people do say this, but I'm genuinely interested what the percentages are for private school students who have a working class background
@@lord_scrubingtonthere are stats about that, you can research. I know parents whose kids attend top schools in Surrey, all on average incomes. In our previous school there were only 2 high earner families that’s all. We had careers etc, it’s about parents giving up on their needs and wants for kids education. I now families which makes large salaries, go on expensive holidays , drive very expensive cars but send kids to bad schools, it’s about parents mind set.
@@kemalistdevrimturkaydnlanm168 where can i find these? Cus I had a quick look on google scholar and nothing came up
It is a disgrace
This tax on education is a disgrace!
@@toniit5166 Private schools are not Charities but profit making Businesses & like any businesses should be subject to VAT.
@@toniit5166Can Always use state education there're not businesses so not subject to VAT. Easy isn't it.
@@toniit5166 it’s being contested and the government are going to court over it
I went to private schools all my life ( primary and secondary). I was ok. My son went to state schools and got A* in all subjects . He could pick and choose his university. Pay if you want but it doesn’t guarantee success.
It depends what’s friends you make in private school ! Who you know, and who your parents know ! Is a great advantage !
Actually, one more move the labour party will make will be to force Universities to discriminate against private school pupils when selecting their students. It's a nice and fair two tier system that way.
Doesn't take a genius to work out why , kinda weird point to make...
It has nothing to do with grades its principles and culture. Good grades do not guarantee success.
So what you're saying is your son is smarter. And you think the schools made a difference
Same reason no vat on books as they are educational
I was told vat applies to non essential goods and services. Books aren't taxed because they are essential, standard train tickets - essential - no vat, first class train tickets -non-essential - vat, public education - essential - free! no vat, private education - non essential - so it should have vat.
Just like the BS one OLUSOGA “wrote” about black history !🤬💩!
@@kieranmark3450private school non essential? We keep on hearing that the state system is over burdened. Private school, to me, seems a way for the more financially able to alleviate that burden. For one. For two, how is education that is outside of the state framework be non-essential unless you are proposing that education be a monopoly of the state. It should not be. State educational systems were introduced to make education available for all at a time when education was ALL private. How is that 'non essential'? People ask me and my wife why we have a kid in private. (I'm a first generation immigrant, she grew up single parent on benefits household. Imagine our friends circle...) Because we saw it as a social obligatio, 'pushing forward' because we could afford it. The same way we have extensive private healthcare plans. We could've skipped the idea of 'obligation' and instead go on two holidays a year and spend the money abroad buy property to sit on or what not. We don't. We keep it in the country, spending it on education and health when our taxes and national insurance contributions has already spent it on state education and state health. We are not being elitist or anything. We believe in the social system. But the social system as we see it can only exist in the long term when not everyone including the government is on the 'take, take take'.
@@kieranmark3450unfortunately it IS essential in some cases
@@bigjonS4 do you have an example?
I had 2 boys in a private secondary school. The younger did his A level in this year. Just in time. I am so happy. It was a mega huge financial sacrifice.
Me to I did the same. It was a huge sacrifice for us. He has just got his business degree.
It was worth every penny and every sacrifice. The government needs to fund the state schools.
The private schools will win the case 💯💯💯
Boo hoo. Grow up! You made the choice!@@gaynor7947
@@gaynor7947 and is that a plus? 🤷🏽♀️ you want the state to top up in private education? This is wild. Nowhere else in the world is this practiced and I've lived on 3 continents. We really love to feed the top at the expense of everyone else. Propping up the 0.03% who don't even make things better, they just talk to each other, collect huge salaries and let everything fall apart on the rest of the citizenry.
@@tinachristine4573she said the government should top up the crap schools
Good for you. But I ask you. How do you feel about the fact that that school you sent them to and paid a hefty price for. Is, in fact, a charity. That's right, a tax-exempt charity.. Not a business. Which is funny. Cos the board make a pretty penny from your excesive payments. They all enjoy tax exempt status. If you buy a Rolls or a Lamgourghini you pay tax. This is no different.
read a story the other day parents take daughter out of private school because of vat no place in state school council now paying her school fees
Err nonsense
There have been a few similar cases to this one....this policy will surely bite Labour on the ass real hard.
@@howardosborne8647 oh yes, even if true, which it isn’t, four children will destroy the comprehensive system. Do you even think before you post anything?
But the govt haven't stipulated how much schools can pass on. Some are passing 20 percent so it's meaningless to say some won't.
@ it doesn’t matter you muppet.
Education should not be taxed at all - choosing to pay for private schooling does not mean that you are rich or entitled. The state schools in my area can not cope with the children they have. Forcing parents to pull a child from private schooling does not help the state schools either, it just adds pressure! I can guarantee you that state schools won’t see a penny of the money they think they will generate because that’s how labour work! I really hope this case wins!
choosing to pay for private schooling does not mean that you are rich or entitled. It kinda does though
@@MrTheevilmage it really doesn’t!
My daughter is attending a private school after receiving an academic award towards her fees. I took advantage of that as this would give her a better chance in of advancement in education. I am a single mum with 2 children having managed to cater for both of them with no help from the anyone. My son in currently in Univ which has not been easy after being let down by a state school and had to move him to a college wasting 1 year of his schooling . This experience played a part in my decision to take my daughter to a private school. I am struggling on a low income and I am very worried that I might not be able to afford the fees next year. The painful thing is my daughter came to me and said “please mum don’t take me out of the school, please”. It broke my heart. She is currently in year 9 about to start preparing for her GCSE. I think the govt is not fair in charging vat. Very unfair. We are all not very rich in these school.
@@carold3959 Start a go fund me. It’s a good case I think. Or look out to see if you can find other grants.
@@carold3959 exactly it’s people like you it will hurt. I hope it doesn’t come to you taking her out. It’s not fair.
Government should not tax education totally wrong.
Don't vote labour... This is what they do
@@dottyp137 It's not fair that her daughter is getting a better level of education. There are plenty of people struggling in the UK, so why does her child deserve to go a private school?
I think this is all wrong, many parents both work hard and sacrifice so much to pay for a private school education, it is not just the rich people who seek private education but thousands of working people who don’t have many luxuries like holidays abroad etc so they can pay for private education. If these children end up in mainstream schools because of this extra cost, hundreds of schools will be past maximum capacity. Further strain on Teachers and resorces. Further dividing the population. This VAT cost will not be good. I hope this case is won and the government sued for putting all this stress on more people who try their hardest to educate their children .
It’s not about taxing the people who work hard to give their children a better start in life , it’s about closing down schools that are not controlled by the government.
Considering the government's budget requires that tax money for their spending commitments I really don't think it is. If all the private schools closed down they'd be fucked.
@@kapitankapital6580I think many will simply because of the VAT issue which makes it unaffordable for so many especially if you have more than 1 and even worse contending with secondary schools. This has not been well thought through at all by the government. This left wing socialist disaster
@@krishnagondhea7428 private school fees have increased by nearly 60% in the last 20 years, and over this time there has been no significant change in the number of students attending them. These are fairly price inelastic costs, and an additional 10% is highly unlikely to cause significant numbers of students to switch to the local comp.
How else would they encourage all these transformers
@@krishnagondhea7428if you think Labour are any lefter than centre you need to reevaluate your thinking situation
All schools to be State schools to be controlled by the State. Does that sound familiar?
This is all envy. School fees are paid for after tax, this is the choice of parents, they can spend their money however they please, this is a worrying time, how long will it be before this government which has a dictator at the helm will be telling us how and when we can spend our money which is left over after our taxes have been paid. This is a tax on education. Which school did Rachel from accounts go to?
I think you’re arguing against all tax, duties etc charged on goods and services….ok let’s put it all on higher rate income tax you rich simpleton.
What illogical rubbish. It is just self-interested whining.I pay my plumber out of taxed income but have also to pay VAT. The same is true of most goods and services, so why should any school be exempt - especially when there is freedom of choice and several thousand state secondary schools in existence? Private school shave had an easy ride over the decades, at the expense of all of us who have as a result had to make up the national shortfall by additional taxation of our income.
@ a good point well made sir
It's not the same. When parents pay for a private school place they SAVE the govt the cost of educating their child.
@ they really don’t. You don’t get it do you. Sit down have a think with your privileged little brain.
There are plenty of private school children who have never been on holiday or to a nice restaurant as the parents have made a life choice that their children's education is more important.
The majority of private school pupils are really poor
There are plenty of state school children who have never been on holiday or to a nice restaurant because their parents cannot afford that choice.
Source?
@@kapitankapital6580 when
Most people don’t earn enough to pay for one term let alone a year and these people think they are poor. As if going on holiday or eating in any restaurant is not a complete luxury and they are bleating about paying vat. Delusional
@ a tory
Taxing education is very wrong. The private scho9l child saves the loal authority £7,5K every year. They get no refund
Private healthcare costs and so should private education. Your tax contributions cover state schools , not private ones where essentially money is syphoned out of the education system.
@@ladygardener100 delulu
Everybody pays for public education and everybody has the right to send their child to a school. If you don't want to take up that offer that's your right, but that doesn't excuse you from contributing. Private education on top of the state education you're entitled to is a luxury, not a necessity, and so should be taxed appropriately.
@@kapitankapital6580it’s a choice, but not a luxury. It’s education.
@@chilloutcentral2097 paying to go to a better school than everybody else absolutely IS a luxury. If all they wanted was an education they are free to go to their local comprehensive.
My own experience as a grandparent tells me that many families, in order to pay for private education, are not rich. They will forgo holidays and other luxuries, in order to get their children a better education. Most are ordinary workers with ordinary jobs. And don't forget they pay twice: once through their taxes and once from their earnings. These private schools scrimp and save in order to provide a good education for their pupils.
Whilst there are families that forsake holidays, luxuries etc to send their children to private schools, that is a minority. The truth is that the majority of private school children come from wealthy upper-middle class families who can afford the school fees on top of being able to pay for luxuries and travel. I’ve done research on this for multiple of my own projects to know this is a fact. Why does everyone forget that if private schools were not a thing more time and money could be invested in state schools? There wouldn’t be a need for “better” schools if state schools were more invested in and there certainly wouldn’t be a need for parents, rich or not, to feel like they need to give their child a privileged option of education if they can afford it. Instead everyone would benefit equally from a fair and highly-standardised education, regardless of their background. Why should some be offered more opportunities or a better education because of the wealth of their parents??
@kstudies111 Seriously!!! You imagine that state schools would be improved, by scrapping private schools, or simply pouring more and more money into a system which is failing! State schools failures are nothing to do with funding! You are deluded!!
But remember they aren't banning private schools. What they are doing is reducing the poorer kids that go to them for usually extreme reasons, SEN, faith, girls school, military family etc. These are the kids labour are overjoyed to have shoved out of schools mid exams, mid year.
Very true..
24k a year dude.
How much do you think people earn?
why people seems to think all people who go to private school are stinking rich??
My son has just started at a local private school. we don’t live a lavish lifestyle, we drive modest 2nd hand older cars (mine has over 120k miles), we live in a modest mid-terrace house with no drive way or parking. we’ve chosen to live modestly so we can afford to send him to school out of salary.
most family who send their kids to private schools are in similar situation. we are not talking about eaton or even boarding schools.
it stinks of just jealousy. As an immigrant, i’ve noticed most people in the UK would prefer to spend tons of money on going on holidays and tons of money on driving the best cars and biggest mortgages they can’t afford. but those who want to use their money for education, what they think is more important, are being penalised and see as “rich”.
When my son is finished in 5 years I’m out of the UK. Yes, I am an immigrant and I know i’ll never be British. I’ve paid taxes, never taken benefits. I’ll let you have your country back as that’s what you want. when WW3 starts with Russia just don’t come to us in the commonwealth again asking us to fight for Britain.
No one has an issue with immigrants like you,it's just people are fed up as we have enough bad people of our own and the government seems intent on importing anybody into Britain,with no checks,often adding to our own bad people at our own expense.Also the Commonwealth didn't just help save Britain,it helped save Britain AND the Commonwealth countries from falling to Nazi Germany,which wouldn't have been fun!
🤡 good riddance. Go and pay taxes in your home country and see if you can make it better, rather than running away to the UK and trying to get something for nothing.
I love rich people who get annoyed by this law and then pretend to be working class in the comments. Its always the same NPC bullshit. This bad. Not Rich. We have second hand cars (emphasis on car's Plural). we not Rich house no have driveway. we live modestly. No you don't you live in a cushy decently built house with up to date heating and electrics and a house you BROUGHT, not brought out to rent.....with 3 cars and your annoyed cause it means only 4 holidays in the year instead of 5...shockingly you may have to go somewhere horrid....like centre parks which for toffs is hell cause only the middle class people go there.
I was with you until "it just stinks of jealousy"
Awww man, you ruined it😅
Nobody is jealous, we understand that you're potentially raising the next middle class. You just have to pay your share, like everyone else does.
I'm sorry your feeling perturbed by this additional tax but think of how proud you'll be of your lil valued member of society when you tell your friends and family what they do for a living 😊
Eyes on the prize
@@Nousmourronsseuls You Sir/Ma'am sound like a typical failed indigenous Brit (as am I) and we've been living in the past for years. This commentator is bang on the button and gives a reason why we are now completely outclassed in just about everything. Most nations are now well ahead of us and indeed the 5 best educational systems are all in the Far East, Finland being the only European nation in the top ten. Russia doesn't want to invade, nor China, and after 34 years in HM Forces I can say with some experience we couldn't defend the Isle of Wight. The UK now rewards bad parents & wasters whilst living of the backs of industrious foreigners who in general, like this commentator, take nothing. Take a good look around I respectfully suggest and note the shambles we've become.
My daughter went to a wonderful private school in her early years where amongst all else discipline and manners were instilled as a matter of routine. We moved after my business failed due to overheads. She went into a local state school and within weeks the Head called us in and advised we take her out quote "before she is ruined in here" This is why most who can afford it send their children to private schools.
What about the the other children
What utter nonsense. More than fifty years ago I went from a comprehensive school to Cambridge University, and have never looked back. Once I had sat the entrance examination (the easiest test I have ever faced in my entire life), I was by return offered a place on condition that I secured just two grade E at A-level. I was not even asked up for an interview, as my college, Churchill, which has 32 Nobel laureates in its rolls which would make it the fifth country so ranked were it a country and not a college only at one university), so obviously the professors liked what they saw in my examination performance. As indeed the tutors told me when I matriculated. I actually secured six A(S) levels at the age of 17, so the state sector did not hold me back. I am still proud of being a life member now that I am seventy years of age of the most demanding and prestigious academic scientific institution in not only this country but in the whole of Europe. Public school would undoubtedly have held me back and would have served me badly with its petty rules and regulations and in many instances innate mediocre, soul- crushing and intellect-stultifying dogma. That said, the great majority of my fellow students were from public schools, which was a learning experience on both sides but I never once in residence encountered the least snobbishness form anyone. And, I responded in like mind. Many of my fellow students are still lifelong friends, even though death culls our numbers annually.
@@MarkPayne-k7l1 persons experience isn't representative of the country as a whole and unsurprisingly most of the worst schools are state run.
@@Mewtwosmrmime I am living proof that refutes your position. Do please get over it.
@@Mewtwosmrmime To help you out just that little bit more. "Good "will out no matter what.
I hope this case wins
AMEN.🙇
It must for the sanity of our State education system that can't cope if it doesn't win!
@@iamthestogI wonder what that money spent in fees could do for the public education sector…
My two grand children go to private school I work full time and have a second job as a career in a care home I order to help my son pay the school fees. So that’s two generations of tax payers making sacrifices to support the third generation to access private education because we could not secure a place in our nearby state school. We cannot afford to pay another 20% on top of what we already pay so my grand children will have to move to a state school in January to finish their GCSE and A Levels. I am certain this upheaval will affect their wellbeing, confidence and final grades. Has labour given any thought to long term effect this will have on our children or their parents and grandparents who feel that, for all their investment in their education, because of labours decisions they have set them up to fail.
oh shut uup your not in the financial shit if you can work 2 jobs and still support your son
Good luck, hope they win
????!
Labour yeah?
This is direct discrimination against one section of the community BY A GOVERNMENT.
NO OTHER EDUCATION OR TRAINING PAYS VAT and the people opting for private education STILL PAY THEIR PORTION OF TAX INCOME WHICH ONCE PAID FOR THEIR CHILD in public funded education.
Yes discrimination against the rich
@ECECECECEC Nope! Some people work two jobs and massively struggle to put their children in private education. Anyway why should a child have to pay the price?
@ a child pays the price? So why does a child pay for food and warmth? This is you’re argument? Two jobs? Name one person.
@@ECECECECEC😂😂
@@balders6095 yep you have no argument.
My child is in an independent school and this VAT won’t make any difference to me or the majority of other parents. It’s the minority who scrimp and save to afford it who will be priced out. It will now be even more unattainable.
The truth is there are great teachers in the state sector but they have so much to contend with due to years of underfunding and other social issues.
We should follow the Finnish model and abolish private schools so that everyone in society is invested in ensuring state education is fit for purpose.
I completely disagree, our state schools are far inferiror and subject to political pressure
Exactly it’s to price everybody but the very wealthy out. Dirty strategy. Hope they win 👍🏻
@@balders6095that’s besides the point. They could have implemented a 1% wealth tax on the very wealthy if that was what they were trying to achieve, it’s to price ordinary people out of being able to send their children to private school because who the heck do you think you are. It’s to ensure inequality is thriving and kicking. Wake up.
You'd need to bring back proper behaviour management options for teachers. But since police have lost it, teachers have no hope
THIS!
Everybody knows it is politically motivated, but they have the government power.
Not everybody "knows". I for one do not know.
I sent my boy to private schools because he gets very nervous with too many kids around him, not because we are wealthy.
Not preparing him for the real world then? Or will you see he goes on to a monastery?There were more than 30 in my classes at my comprehensive and the rough and tumble prepared me for life at Cambridge university from that school.
If you can do it for such reason,you are wealthy, it really depends who measuring up to. . Perhaps the fees would be better used for a therapist first to see if the issue is disorder based or development based. See that’s what may parents who cannot afford it do, because private is just not an option.
@@MarkPayne-k7l real world or not real world depends how you look at it. The aim is not to get into Cambridge, but to develop his confidence from the age of 4 to 10.....
@@TGIF82 therapist? Yes, I listened to expert. At this age, the environment is the most important to develop his confidence, not just an hour of consultation a week....
@@haha4581 Understood, and I am no pyschologist but confronting one's demons even at his age can work wonders for development. As I say, no psychologist and presumably you have explored all options, so I see and accept your point in your case. Is there not help from the authorities if your lad has a recognized condition?
Totally wrong
No its logical, you pay for a service expect VAT's
Absolutely horrible decision to tax education from Labour. Good state schools are oversubscribed already. Many parents are already struggling with the cost of living and now have additional burden if they want a good education for their kids. Many private schools are giving scholarships to talented kids and they would lose this if private schools income is severely affected.
Rich people are not struggling under the cost of living unless you mean "they had to sell a horse" but no they are doing fine. Private schools are a business, you pay for the Service expect VAT's simple.
In the UK, private schools are required to demonstrate that they provide a public benefit, and the Charities Act 2006 and 2011 confirmed that the advancement of education is a charitable purpose.
Now that Private Schools are to pay Tax and VAT why are they going to share their facilities with local state schools? In short, the Government gains with more Tax, Parents of the pupils at the private school lose money and the local community loses access to such things as sports fields, halls, swimming pools etc, etc.
Is this the master plan of the Labour Government or a policy driven by envy?
Socialism doesn't like wealthy people. Expect more socialist policies to come from this deeply immoral government.
It's a communist government. Starmer and Reeves are both communists.
@@composedlight6850 it isn’t socialism!! It’s just making things fairer.
local community loses access to such things as sports fields, halls, swimming pools- No if anything the VAT could make more for public access, what the hell are you talking about?
@@iamthestog Ah yes, Radical Socialist Keir Stramer 😂😂
Taxing education is wrong
Quite right. it should be simple multiple-choice one-word answer questions only at exam time. Like some dreadful game shows.They are not taxing at all.
Sorry, What type of education is being taxed here?... Oh yes, PRIVATE. Tax them.
@@EdwardOberon yea its private which ultimately is something a good deal of us do not care about. Oh,no the poor privately educated rich kids. Give me a break.
Taxing profit making businesses is correct
Private schools should be paying taxes. Public schools should not. Pretty simple really.
Nowt to do with vat. All about envy.
Now to do with envy.
Spoken like a true Audi driver
It's about raising money to stop us going into an even worse financial crisis. I went to private school and they absolutely should be taxed.
you people don't really understand the meaning of envy do you?
They will probably pay more in compensation than they get in That’s how stupid this government is
Maybe in the first year or two, for SOME of them, but not thereafter or in perpetuity. THAT is how it works, just as for any other business that has to charge VAT on its supply of goods or services.
Not just Stupid, Criminally Stupid and Indoctrinated with Marxism!
I believe it will backfire on them very badly but they seem far too arrogant to admit their policy error here.
But those schools it tops over the edge will send their whole cohort into state so that's a cost there perpetually.
When they register for VAT they will beable to claim back all the VAT they have paid for the previous10 years, so all vat on food, cleaning services, maintenance, building works, car/minibuses etc will have to be paid back to the schools. Putting VAT on private schools is despicable, not all parents are wealthy many make great sacrifices to educate their children, also they are saving the government money as very few receive any money from the education authority, some special needs children may receive a grant from the local education authority but only in exceptional circumstances and only to the limit of state school funding.
I think it is being imposed just on FEES.
@@peterloup2302 Which the schools CANNOT claim vat back from. This is why the gov will lose the case, they are ultimately taxing education.
@@peterloup2302 They can't do that, it applies to everything or nothing. If you charge VAT then you can off set the charge against expenses( vat paid) before you pay it to the Tax office ( Vat in -fees minus Vat out -expenses = Tax office) , When you include everything , heating , water, services the tax office may receive very little money, it is really only the parents that are penalised. ex-accountant
I cannot imagine a more regressive taxation than a tax on young people’s education. Where have Labour’s socialist principles gone?
Its for Private schools, unless you yourself have a kid attending private school this does not effect you at all
Unfortunately ministers in this government don’t have any business experience, they don’t realise that private schools taking big burdens from State schools hence saving of government money, in fact government should give some funding to private instead of penalising them with imposing VAT
I don’t think they care. These things are just vote winners. Just like the tax on 2nd homes which the previous government quietly pushed onto companies.
They also bring investment into our country in the form of thousands of overseas students.
Theyre not taking any burden from state schools since privates schools are filled primarily with kids from rich families - the schools that actually need help are the oversaturated poorer schools that can't afford to take on the swell of kids from struggling families, they couldn't even afford the board much less actually attending these private schools. So no that's bs the only people benefitting are the rich while the poor drown. Not to mention private schools are a business - they make profit, it's not done to benefit the everyman in any way shape or form and thus should be taxed. As for bringing in foreign students, again the only people benefitting from rich foreign students that can afford to board, travel often and attend these expensive schools ARE the rich schools they attend - none of that money goes to the country or to the education of anyone but the top percentile. It's not like tourism where that money is spent at different local shops/attractions that then get put back into the economy - all that cash goes directly into the private schools pockets, with nice big bonuses for the owner and Dean.
I’ve not had a fire in my house and I’ve not declared war on anybody I think it’s unfair I have to pay tax for services I never use. I think I will take the government to court
It’s about time they were charged vat. Along with banning anybody educated at Eton from entering politics. We’ve seen and had enough of that thank you.
Lucky Lord Pannick. I would have done it for one-tenth the amount he is being paid. And, the result would have been exactly the same. The independent schools must be swimming in cash if they can just throw what will be a huge sum of money away in a fir of most unattractive pique. In a sense, they are making the government's case for it and their action shows that they will not be suffering hardship at all as a result of VAT imposition. Most people could never afford legal fees in the first place, even when right is on their side.
It’s disgusting! Parents have already paid tax on their hard earned money and should be able to invest in their children’s education! The government should be thankful because these schools take some of the strain off the already over stretched education system!
@@traceyellis7399 well Kier Starmer who is an envious individual left wing narcissist doesn’t see it that way. This decision shows the type of mind he has
We've all paid tax on our incomes. That doesn't mean we don't have to pay VAT on what we buy. Schools are no different.
waaaahhhhh I'm angry I have to pay for my dumb childs education now cause I chose to go private waaahhhhh
You pay VAT on the vast majority of services and purchases from your disposable income after you have paid income tax. Why is this any different?
@@richardhebden5603 cause rich people beleive they should not have to contribute to society.
This tax is driven by misguided jealousy and ignorance! If Reeves had done any research she would have understood that most parents with kids in private schools make significant sacrifices to afford their fees. Most dont frequent pubs and expensive restaurants; nor do they go on expensive foreign holidays!! All that has to wait until the kids have flown the nest and finished their education!! Think again Chancellor!!
That's an awful lot of explanation marks, Jon. Can you not write points without shrieking in such an histrionic fashion?
@@MarkPayne-k7l a man of your superior intellect would surely know there is no such thing as an explanation mark, Mark! Write to me again when you get out of junior school. By then you should know what an exclamation mark is, Mark! In the meantime stop being a Payne!!
Good news. Fight Labour’s politics of envy.
Bollocks. You trot that crap out like you've said something so stunning. And it's crap. I want a fair chance for all kids. Equally. Because that's how society grows and thrives. Pay fucking tax.
No it isn't what utter nonsense
Utter tripe your talking.
We have a grandson with learning issues who attends a private school because his parents deem his education needs worth paying for his attendance. They sacrifice so much to find the money and now a vindictive communist government with millionaire leaders removes their rights. One other thing didn't the EU question the legality of this move as being in breach of the dreaded ECHRs
Nope. It’s a made up case that will fail.
"They're violating my rights by making a business pay tax :("
@ 😂
Vindictive communist government Oh my god mate this is not a communist government like Jesus, can tell your making this whole comment up, probably not even from the UK just some gormless slav I'd imagine pretending to be outraged
disgrace taxing education.
Yeah, PRIVATE education... Did you miss that bit? It's a private business..
@@EdwardOberonit removes children from public schools which eases their financial burden. The law requires private schools to meet the same standards as public schools so where is the value added part, better schooling!
@@johnmansell5097if private schooling simply equated to the public education system, we would not have private schools. They are better, they produce higher grades. There is your value
@@johnmansell5097They also have holidays outside the state school calendar saving thousands a year - there’s the catch up money. Drop the skiing trip and The Maldives and pay the VAT like the rest of us have to.
@EdwardOberon next you will be saying they should add VAT to private hospitals! Typical clueless thinking. Some families are on long waiting lists and in pain so they use private. Similarly some areas schools underperforming and good ones full ! so as a parent they have no choice but private. Ok next time you cant get a bus dont take a private hire taxi. If u do hope they add Vat !
All those spiteful people who are happy for private schools to get taxed, please realise that those kids from private schools whose parents can no longer afford private will take the places in best state schools leaving fewer places for your kids.
Threat, threat, threat. Blackmail, blackmail, blackmail. What a "spiteful" person you in fact are and as evidenced by your words.
@@MarkPayne-k7l Hey its the guy who pissed his education up the wall and thinks he's a doctor
I have taught in private schools and many of the parents are not rich and struggle to give their children a good education. These children prove to be successful tax payers.
This is a self defeating decision by the Labour government which will harm the wealth of the UK.
Oh it’s disgusting. That Starmer is a nasty person
Oh right, so they will pay tax, eventually. But not quite as much as poorer people. And bull shit. My husband went to public school. What to know how many kids in his year were poor? 1. That's one. Just one.
And guess what. I went to state school and got my degree. He didn't. He failed his exams.
Come one here lying. Right wing are we. Cry me a river. I'd rather have public services to care for mental health, I'd rather have good education for ALL children...and to get that, you need to pay tax.
Grow up.
Sure, what you say rings true for some. The emphasis here is on ‘some’. Kids I know in this position wish their parents had not sacrificed and been more of a ‘happy’ family that did have more things going on for them like disposable cash.
The far far far greater majority of people attending private schools will not have to worry about the tax as their parents can easily afford it.
A heavy class system, a 2 tier society is all about things like private education.
@ I don’t think that’s true at all re; the far far majority of people not being effected by the tax. The school which my daughter attends a few have already left due to the anticipated tax coming into force in January. And a number a due to leave by next summer. It’s a disastrous decision and the consequences for the state schools is going to be awful.
Regarding decisions to put your child through private school, well let me tell you that there is a massive difference between the two sectors in our area. 32 children vs 12 in a class plus the nurture and discipline good etiquette they are learning. Basically modelling a certain type of citizen for the future society. Why can’t the state offer this? This is the question to be posed to Starmer. And the vast majority of individuals I know who have been through the private system and whose parents struggled to send them there have said they wouldn’t change it for the world. Especially those who were in the middle somewhere and needed pushing where the state didn’t provide it. Some were bullied in state schools and then moved to private school and the bullying stopped. So the benefits outweigh greatly.
Rubbish. Finland has one of the best education systems anywhere, and they actually do not allow private schooling. I think we should follow their example.
Awe diddums the insular culture that refuses to integrate or contribute to society is going to be forced to do so
Like some other points in the Budget, this particular decision seems petty, short sighted and desperate, with yet another bureaucratic cost and precious little benefit - will it end up costing us as taxpayers in the long run ?
I hope they win. They pay for their kids education on top of all taxes they already pay. This saves the government money as they don’t have to find state school places for them.
So they HAVE got a ton of money then
Hope they win and force an embarrassing U turn on this vile government.
Vile is putting it mildly. They are living nightmare
@@lesigh1749 boo hoo. Im so rich i cant afford to go on four holidays a year and pay my school fees.
Oh no, little Tarquin may only have to go on 6 foreign holidays this year, not 7.
@@lemons2135 Why don't you just show how ignorant you are by assuming that everyone who sends their kids to a public school is filthy rich, and that many of them aren't normal working families who save hard to be able to afford it.
Oh, you did, never mind!
Labour, the politics of Envy.
@@lordprotector3367 Interesting name choice, but if we are talking about Children who went to Public School I think Little Kier is a better example. But hey, he's alright now, haul that ladder up.
Politics of envy, nothing else.
Nothing to do with "envy". Everything to do with fairness under the national taxation system.
My daughter was SA at her state school. She was given a fresh start in a private school. How dare Labour take my daughter’s protection, sanctuary and stability! Same on Labour. I’m a widow, and I’m not rich but my children are protected and educated. Who do these people think they are taking away the safety that my child’s school provides that state could not! 🤬🤯
How are they taking away your daughter's safety? This just means that private schools are gona be taxed.
So sorry to you and your Daughter.🙏💞
@@sheriffjbunnell2392the state school allows four boys to g**g r**e my 13yo after being repeatedly assaulted and stalked at the free state school. After the trial my daughter had enter a private school at huge cost. This school she attends has in her year 13 people. Her safety is assured by 3/1 teacher pupil balance, cctv and safe spaces for traumatised children. 20% on 30k is a joke when the state will NOT have her back in the system due to the trial! So this tax places me in a position of paying more to a corrupt government or taking her out! She is a child survivor and doesn’t deserve to be a guinea pig for this delusion government!
The most dumbest argument. You can be SA at private school
You know statistically girls are more likely to be SAd and have it covered up in private schools than public? But you do you lady
So if they have to pay vat now, people who go private should not have to include a contribution to state schools
Also the schools can claim vat back in everything
Starmer really has no businesssense at all
The council will have to pay for schooling at home as there are no state school places left
It just makes no sense, the government will have to fork out more money, they’re stupid to the nth degrees😂😂
I imagine the schools can claim back the VAT, and can the reimburse it to the fee-payers.
But the end result of charging a tax that can be claimed back is that the exchequer will raise no new money. So are they doing this for some other reason? Or do they just not know how the system works?
My child’s school has said we are having to pay 12.5% of the VAT and they will absorb the rest. But then there’s the yearly fee increases of £900 a year so it’s going to be bank breaking eventually
@@craigs3007I suggest you first study how VAT works, then come back later.
Why does the country with no private schools have the best education system in the world?
If you’re talking about Finland you are also talking about a country where teachers are respected, very well paid have huge benefits including, O think, sabbaticals. Well funded well regarded. It makes a difference…..
Cause the rich don't steal the best teachers, equipment and resources and instead actually bother to fund and maintain the education system that everyone else uses.
1) Last time I checked the International School of Helsinki was private.
2) In the 2022 Pisa scores, Singapore came top. The country has a variety of private schools.
My alma mater, Cambridge University, might challenge the last bit.
To be more precise, my alma mater, Churchill College at Cambridge University, has 32 Nobel laureates on its roster, which is more than all but four countries in the world including our own. And that achieved in only sixty years since it opened. It is the most demanding and prestigious scientific research and educational institution in the world. I am proud to be a life member of that institution and also would challenge your assertion. Oh, and I went to a sink comprehensive school by the way.
I would like to see the basis of which they are bringing a Judicial Review challenge to this policy. One possible claim would be based on Article 2 of Protocol 1. However, the problem I see with such a claim is the opinion of Lord Bingham in Ali v The Headteacher and Governors of The Lord Grey School. In that case Lord Bingham held that there is no entitlement to a particular school.
About time they were taxed. Stop being a burden!
I'm done with Labour, can't wait 5 years for change!!!!
The politics of envy.
What a hackneyed, meaningless expression which is spouted so often by those of limited intellect and near-zero debating abilities who fail dismally to understand the basic concept of fairness....in this case of taxation across all levels of society and activity. It is nothing to do with "envy" and everything to do with fairness in a civilized society. It ranks alongside other pieces of drivel such as is mouthed by those of poor intelligence who like to say that bright people "lack common sense". If anything, the expression "politics of envy" comes out of those who are fulminating with impotent anger and, yes, envy at others who can express themselves in experience-based and fact-based rational and objective discourse.
LMFAO
@@keithjackman8886 So to say Private schools aren't Charities but Businesses is the politics of envy, so should that include other Private Businesses.
@@keithjackman8886 politics of what's fair, why should Private Schools advoid VAT by claiming to be Charities
Hardly. The politics of fair treatment for all.
I contribute to estate schools through my taxes and chose to wave the benefit of sending my child to a estate school for a better education. Now I have to pay VAT on top of that. Petty, populist, shortsighted, hypocrite from private educated ministers.
I think it’s disgusting quite frankly
*Punitive tax & an attempt to destroy social mobility*
What utter nonsense and bitter personal prejudice. I went from a comprehensive school to Cambridge University more than fifty years ago, and have never looked back. So what is all this drivel about "destroy(ing) social mobility.What a histrionic posting given that all we are debating is fairness and even-handed treatment across all sectors under the national taxation system.
Its private education you bellend unless your extremely wealthy this does not affect you
@@MarkPayne-k7l So I'd moot you didn't go to a sink comp Mark but a twee Middle-Class one in a nice area, or were an exceptional gifted child. We had the same situation with the abolition of the Grammar Schools. Now I'm a Sec-Mod boy who perhaps didn't have your benefit or privileges and was condemned by an 11+ exam as a post-war boomer. I think Norman here has a point, we are returning to the days pre The Nats. You only have to look out the window to watch the slide of a nation into ignorance. And I wouldn't get too whiffy about Cambridge, ... It's the faculty that matters, and like everything in our failing nation we live on past glories I fear. Basing a population study on a sample of one is a bit dodgy too! Like the geezer who quotes the guy smoking 60/day who lives to 100! Fairness and even-handedness would mean we all get taxed at say 10%... and all benefits were abolished, for everyone.
@@johnbobson1557 Do you usually call perfect strangers a liar? Only people who are themselves liars by nature do that. Be that as it may, you come across as astonishingly bitter. Is it too late for you to try to make something out of your life, or do you prefer to sneer and deride others who have done so? Please do try to get a life, John.As for Cambridge, whatever you in your suppurating bitterness at life may think, I am proud to be a lifelong member of Churchill College which was and still is the most prestigious and exacting academic scientific teaching and research establishment in not only the UK but in the whole of Europe. You are wrong in your derision. Churchill alone has 32 Nobel laureates on its roster, which is more than all but four countries in the world including our own. Have you seen the film Carry On Sneering?
@@johnbobson1557 By the way, what do you know about my "benefit or privileges"? Do you mean that I was able to walk and breathe oxygen from quite an early age?Do you have any idea how stupid you actually sound with your blind hatred towards someone with a start in life no better than yours and perhaps worse? I remember East Enders before "East Enders"....and then some. Hell, I can even still do the rhyming slang although my pearly suit was binned long ago.
Typical Labour stupidity. Education is investment for the future and should not be taxed.
it's the best decision labour have made so far: absolutely no reason private schools shouldn't have been paying this already
Most forward thinking Country’s with better education systems than ours (Sweden, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Singapore etc, etc) actually offer tax benefits and education is tax deductible. That’s a forward thinking long term growth approach.
Another short sighted Labour tax on aspiration which will hit those struggling the hardest.
And the very best education system by outcome is Finland, where there are no private schools, so let's go with that.
i thought i was doing the children a good thing for a good education and saving the government money next term they can start at public school let it costs the tax payer now f em
I doubt if your kids go to a private school.......
@@clarissa-xd9iuwow! what a ridiculous comment. 😂
As you were, by your own account, paying school fees as a favour to the rest of us why not just donate that money to the Treasury so you can carry on pretending to be a saint?
@@balders6095 Oh no it's not! that "person" obviously lacks any form of even a BASIC education, and i doubt if they are even British! if you see it you see it if not, you're not one of my people!!!!😉
@@MarkPayne-k7l That person doesn't have two pennies to rub together, let's not be silly billies.
I think it’s a disgrace these children are our future and it’s a tax on the people who work hard to earn the right to send their children to private schools some state schools need to do better.
Do you drink Coke? It has VAT. Does every person drink Coke? No. So if you choose to have something that isn’t a necessity, it is taxed.
disgusting if parents want to send their children to private school they should not be penalised for it a lot of parents go without so they can give their chikdren a good start
They should be rewarded, give tax breaks.
It's a choice as with any goods or services. I pay income tax but if I want any of these I expect to pay taxes on them. The whole private school system is cutting out poorer but intelligent children from a lot of opportunities. This is why we have so many rich privileged people in positions of power. I'm sure that there are quite a few Labour ministers who will also be paying these taxes as well which is their choice. Hopefully this money can be used to give all children the same opportunities in the state system.
@mookyzook my kids go private school, 20 per cent of kids are from poor backgrounds on full scholarships that I pay for with my fees. Why are you talking about something u have no idea about.
Mu taxes are paying for state schools I am not using and my private school fees are paying for more state school kids to go private. How am I the bad guy in this ?
@ i dont agree with you
@@KH-he5fpso that’s good, so VAT is actually helping to boost scholarships. You are priveledged to have kids private, great, support those kids who are less fortunate or put your kids to state schools and you can invest those fees there.
Everyone needs to understand that this decision affects children with disabilities and young children at nurseries too. This is not just for Eton and Harrow, but for all forms of private education. The idea of putting VAT on special school is downright evil!
No its not its logical, Private schools are a business providing a service, you should expect a VAT for a service same way as you would for anything else and don't bring disabled kids into this, I worked in a private clinic for a while and you rich folks LOVE to dump your severely disabled kids there and forget about them, don't act like you send them to private school you don't, you move em out of eye site. I know because I've seen it.
Nobody tell them that under EU legislation, no govt could put a tax on school fees. Brexit eh!
Where did you hear that, LOL... another lie because of Brexit!
Good on you guys
Good for them. Despite being ordinary working class,my wife I went without' and sent our son to a public school,even though paying for the state schools through the rate system,and at 84 we are still paying for it I don't regret one penny of the fee's,and this because of labours disastrous Shirley Williams.
They should. People who pay for private schools are already paying for state schools, and they’re likely paying more than the average person towards them too. The general public get the benefit of a schooling system that is worth more than what they put in. If a group of people want to get together to offer different schooling options, why should the government act as a barrier?
People who do not have children have been paying for state schools and other services for children without complaint. They are not asking for tax exemptions.
@ That’s not a cogent argument. If childless people are not paying for private schooling, or any schooling at all, what would they be asking for a tax exemption on? If the argument was, people who ‘pay for private schools should get a tax refund, you’d have an argument, but that’s not what’s happening here.
@@seesidesummerhouse6112I agree with your point. However the original post was complaining that fee paying parents pay for other children to go to state school. I was making the point that all tax payers pay for children to go to state school.
Absolutely fabulous policy. Ashamed to say I've worked for these overpriviliged toffee nosed business and they need heavily taxing. They exist in another country
Vindictiveness
Revenge for what, exactly?
no its just Logical, Private school is a service and should be taxed
Great. Push back is justified.
How? It won’t stop or hurt wealthy people sending their children to the school, it’ll only hurt the little people. It ensures normal people will never be able to afford private school. That’s what this is about.
VAT means value added tax so what value is there in paying for your children to be educated to a higher standard I can see if you bought a car its a tax on the purchase of goods but with education its not a material object its more like a bus ride or ataxi ride atrain ride all of which do not charge VAT and when you have finished your ride or your education you have no material goods to show for it
It was about time!
I don't know what the Labour's is thinking. They made a wrong assumption that number of students in private school would not decrease. The fact is the international students will not come and local private school students go back to state school. Private school will close, so how the hell you can get your money? What a no-vision government !
Maybe that’s what they want. Imagine thousands of students flooding into the state school lists. We will see a record high of kids being out of school because there aren’t enough places.
FREE QUALITY EDUCATION FOR EVERYONE. Not just Tory toffs
p off
@ tory toff alert! Actually... tory toffs dont usually even bother with these things... you must belong to that exquisite group of poor people who are just so thick they think the tories actually care about them 😂
Only Labour could tax education.
It’s a tax payer’s worst nightmare when they come to power and to make matters worse this government are socialist 😢
It's not doing that, it's removing their status as a charity (which they clearly aren't).
@@lordprotector3367how can a private school not be a charity? They are removing a child from the burden of the state whilst not asking the state for a penny back. That sounds very charitable to me?
What type of education is it?... For Profit, Private Education. Please have a seat.
@@iamthestog What cause are they giving their 'charity' money to?
VAT fees will effectly make education more expensive. How will this decision nuture UK future local talent pool?
What drivel. Fifty years ago I went from a comprehensive school to Cambridge University, and have never looked back. What rubbish some people spout.
@@MarkPayne-k7lthat’s you, but what about all the SEND children that will caught out?
@@chilloutcentral2097 The point is that with an independent spirit and application (and good health of course) one can do anything. Schools do not matter. I took myself out of classes at the age of 15 to educate myself with books of my choice and secured six A(S) levels. And no, my parents did not help; if anything they were unable to cope with the situation. If I can do it so can many others. And, I did it fifty years ago when it was just about unheard of. As for the less academically gifted, no school is going to help them anyway but they can devote their lives to pursuing what they are good at. Everyone can develop excellence in something good and/or useful Just not always in what selfish parents push for. Schools only hold pupils back, state and public....perhaps the independent ones most of all with their soul and mind-crushing petty rules and procedures.I know that i would never have succeeded if i were so unfortunate that my parents were wealthy. Luckily for me they were very poor.
@@MarkPayne-k7lhave you been to a comprehensive school lately?
@@angelh5762 I am seventy years old. I do not think one would take me. An independent school probably would though, as long as I had the money for the fees. As Private Eye says about them, the motto of St Cakes is "Qui pagat entra".
Good luck, you have my support.
I live in France where every child receives the same allocation of tax payers money and then you can choose to top up if you decide to privately educate you children. It’s a added tax on already the highest tax payers. Just not fair / just not right
VAT is levied on food in France. Is that "fair" or "right", or are you just suffering a little from selective memory and/or judgement? As my (comprehensive) school French teacher used to quip...."J'ai grand faim", and "No, that does not mean that I have a big wife". Good enough for an education, or what?
@@MarkPayne-k7l So if we agree to put VAT on food, will you be okay with us removing it from private education? I'm just trying to understand your reasoning.
@@georgesdelatour My reasoning is very simple. Food is vital for life or we die. Private schooling is not, it is a luxury and actually not necessary at all for determined pupils to succeed in life.Vital goods and services aside, VAT should be levied on everything or on nothing at all That is simply basic logic in a civilized society. Private schools are non-essential businesses and what they offer for money should be taxed accordingly. My point is even more simple and clear. If a poster moans about VAT on private schooling and tells us (correctly) that it is not levied in France, then he should have the intellectual rigour and honesty to also tell us (again correctly) that the french prefer to levy VAT on food instead whereas we are free of that burden in the UK.
@@MarkPayne-k7l “VAT should be levied on everything or on nothing at all. That is simply basic logic in a civilised society.” If that was true, it would mean that there are NO civilised societies anywhere on the planet. No society has ever existed which applies the same sales tax rate to everything, or to nothing. Even in France, which I assume you consider to be barbarous and uncivilised, they don’t apply the same VAT rate to all categories of food. The highest rate only applies to specific luxury foods and alcohol.
It’s arguable that we only have a civilisation if we can go beyond basic caveman-level survival such as finding food. We don’t need art, music, architecture, poetry, literature for that basic, caveman-level survival. But civilisations exalt these things precisely because they are civilised.
I believe that Labour’s real motivation in this VAT change is not to raise taxes but to force more children to attend leftist indoctrination centres. People like Bridget Phillipson loathe the home-schoolers exempting their kids from the state system every bit as much as they loathe the fee-payers. Yet they don’t mind rich people getting their kids into “better” Comprehensives by buying houses in the expensive catchment areas. Those rich kids will get a better education from their parents’ wealth, but they will still be indoctrinated, and that’s what really matters to her.
Phillipson and co are totalitarians, who have cleverly distracted their headbanger base by making the issue seem to be about money. It’s really about mind control.
@@georgesdelatour I agree with you entirely, Georges. However, I do consider France to be one of the most civilized countries in the world and possibly the most civilized. My point about taxation and civilization is that thus far in history my wishes have been an ideal rather than something that has actually as yet been realized. Your point about differential VAT rates in France is valid but does not negate my central argument. As for your sound appreciation of the political undertones to education now, first they will not last as this government is a one-shot pantomime. Secondly, I am rather envious at state school pupils now as when I was a teenager I would simply have loved to challenge my teachers on a non-stop basis about their logic, drivel and half-baked theories. Hell, I may even have gone to some lessons just in order to do that. It would have put a rapier edge on my mind even faster than I was able to do when I was a youngster.
Private schools are a business, providing a service. As such, like any business they attract VAT. They have just been getting away with it. With the exception of purely special needs schools, where is the argument. Spare us the violins and the whining.
It is cruel tax of envy on the children.
stop talking bollocks
no its not at all, you pay a private enterprise money you should expect VAT
You're right Mairi... but wasting your time with us Brits. We do produce a pretty good class of hooligan though these days judging by all the oiks stabbing each other. The Orientals academically out-class us now by miles! They are moving the good schools there... It's complex, but our days are over!
Rich people should pay more tax to support education so kids don’t need to have a private education.
These people can easily afford to pay more and the fact that some private schools are also registered charities is an abuse. They are not the Poor Schools of the Victorian era!’
This also affects private schools for children with special needs - so is actually an attack on them too!
Mate, do you think our gov cares?
My friends are/were teachers in a Private School which had to close up in September due to these financial changes. I can categorically say that the greater majority of those kids who attended that school were not from rich families rather from families who preferred smaller more intimate style of education.
About time too … and don’t let them get away with their risible ‘charitable’ status anymore either.
Exactly.
It’s genuinely stupid. A lot of parents won’t be able to afford the higher fees so their children are about to be forced into the state school system. And there aren’t places for them. Nor is there funding to make places for them. It’s a disaster for education policy in the U.K. But hey, all that matters is envy politics. By the way, when Rachel Reed was asked what she enjoyed about chess as a youngster her answer was “I liked beating rich boys from posh schools”. She is the walking embodiment of the green eyed monster.
If VAT makes it too much, tough! That only impacts the minority and would improve the stats for the local comprehensive
Plenty of spaces in state schools due to a falling population.
@@thefirm4606it will not improve the results of the local comp, it will merely reduce the standards of the private sector down towards the state sector, making the look more competitive. It’s a nonsense.
If they can afford rah school fees they can afford a tax rise then!
Little Lord Fauntleroy and his mates can STFU!
@thefirm4606 how will it improve local comprehensive schools?
Are the comprehensive going to get better teachers? No
Are the teachers already there going to be forced to have bigger classrooms so each child gets even less education yes.
Will this be a bigger burden on the uk tax payer YES because thousands of kids across the country from working and lower middle class families who's parents work two jobs fulll time and sacrifice everything to send their kids to local schools Which the tax payer will now need to pay for.
And in the long run will lower the education standards for all ESPCIALLY those kids.
Meaning the county as a whole gets more stupid
Poor little rich kids and their families. My heart goes out to them.
As we all know, parents of independent schools work extremely hard( I am a medic and working day and night for 7 days a week), more so than state school parents, to pay school fees.
According to statistics, there are 2600 independent schools in the UK with 615,000 children studying in them. Independent school parents have chosen to invest in their children's future, alleviating the burden on the government. Imagine if these 615,000 children were in state schools, the government would face challenges absorbing the costs of education, staff salaries, and maintaining 2600 schools.
As a parent(Medic), and I'm sure other parents share this sentiment, we work tirelessly, including weekends, to provide the best education for our children. Our demanding schedules leave little time for socializing or family activities. Given the current economic crisis, there's no room for an increase in school fees with the proposed VAT.
This is not exceptable at all to penalise hard working parents. Why can not government charge big businesses and wealthy people similar system based on their wealth to tax 20%, 40%, or 50% just like they tax our monthly salary.
All power to you. This was a purely ideological decision, not an honest one.
Taxing education and spending it on weapons for Ukraine. Wake up!
Well Starmer is saying they will be using the VAT money to recruit more teachers in the state sector. I say good luck to that. Unless your offering teachers a salary of like £55k why would they join the profession with all the constant hard work involved? And large class sizes not to mention the additional children joining state schools from private because of the VAT and parents being unable to afford it
Russia declared war on us a few years ago with a chemical weapons attack in Salisbury. Do you not care that a UK citizen was murdered there, just because it was not you or a member of your family?
The rich send their children to private schools not for the fallacy of a better education but for the status, privilages and contacts. Hence the term, "old school tie", a rich group loyalty associated with people who attended private school getting appointments over others because of it.
Personally I believe education has evolved into an industry and the government has a right to introduce VAT for private education.
Too right pay their dues like we all av to
But they’ve already paid tax on their income and everything else like everyone does. Why should they have to pay tax on education? You don’t pay tax on any other education!
@saragaler2182 how old are you dear in your 20s me thinks
@ 46 if you must know!
@saragaler2182 bless u
And the independent schools will charge the costs of hiring Pannick and his mates to the parents through increased fees. I would far prefer the additional tax revenue to be used to heat the homes of needy pensioners. Government is about choice.
I still don't get it why do you need to pay so much money for your kids to be educated in a private school, while the government provides free education, the only reason to give your kid some kind of an a advantage because you know they are stupid.
Right thing to do. Go to state school if you can’t afford private ! There should not be private school but there should be a school equal to every one ! Not just for the rich
Private Schools are not Charities they are profit based Businesses & as profit making businesses are the same as any business to make money & as such are subject to VAT, like the business I ran. The Charitable status of Private Schools was intended to
provide education for the poorest in society, started in 1601 not for the richest 7% as a for profit Business they should pay VAT.
Except state schools are able to claim back every penny they spend on VAT, but private schools are not...
I’m not in the 7% I’m a carpenter that chooses to send my girl to a private school because her choices of schools were inadequate. Why should I be punished for state education failure.
@@davidedwards1227 but that’s where your wrong. Not all of us in the 7% are rich. Working damn hard to send a child there and only £50 left at the end of the month!
Many of them are also run to prey on vulnerable and insecure parents with their chimera-like promises of better life chances. Why do not these parents instead endlessly lobby parliament for better standards in state education, if they really believe that their children would be so poorly served in one such establishment. I went from a comprehensive to Cambridge University more than fifty years ago and have never looked back. Why would anyone want to waste their money on an independent school when with application and determination a healthy child can achieve their full potential by not going to one?
@@krishnagondhea7428 If you're earning £50k a year (in top 10%) and only have £50 left each month, that's your problem.
There's a independent school called buxlow in north west London and is two old houses with little facilities and is neighbouring a huge state school with many facilities it's such a shame to see that tiny run down independent school have to pay for that advance school next door.
Where do I donate to the lawyers representing the schools?
Normal people don’t care about this but because it is labour, they are acting like it is something they care about.
FFS how old are you?.... If the Tories were doing this you'd say the opposite. It's a double tax. You agree with that then?
this accounts for a very small portion of the population of England. If you can pay thousands of pounds per term for your child to go to school that means the school is making a huge profit. So pay your way. I just about get by every month, I could never afford a term much less years at a private school and get taxed horrendously. But I pay and shut up. The real reason Why we are here is because the rich don’t want to pay their way so they protest and take the government to court. How about we just all stop paying taxes. Let’s do that.
So basically they are making people pay Double Tax, Tax on their incomes and Tax on their childrens education. That is what is called Double dipping! What next tax on the tax that you've already paid tax on?
They are "making" no-one do anything of the sort. You have freedom of choice and do not have to use the services of a public school. Or in your particular case is the government sending the police to your house to compel you to do so? Please do tell, otherwise please do not spout such drivel.
@@MarkPayne-k7lPayne by name, pain by nature.
What? That makes no sense. U pay for private service it includes VAT. The state offers your child education, you choose to go private for whatever reason,u pay VAT. It’s not a rocket science.
@TGIF82 Education is fundamental and involves children's lives deeply. Some countries reduce your tax for saving the state money, ie.every tax payer's money, if you choose private education.
It's not like buying a car or eating out.
You haven't a clue, have you? If I buy goods and services and pay vat on those, that's not double taxation. Private schools are no different, no reason why they should be exempted.