I think “welcome to heaven” should have been Emily showing Charlie around heaven; that way we get a little bit more of them interacting and can see a bond form
Fr, at some point the question of why has to be brought up. Why try to redeem sinners if heaven isn't any better? I mean, it's not like they're being punished in hell. It's just like a place where people can do whatever they want. Literally the only reason anyone would want to get into heaven is so that they can escape exterminations. Which was a terrible motive for the show for two reasons. 1. The scale of the event is poorly defined. The exterminations never really seem like that much of a problem, because they never target a main character. That's like if in Lord of The Rings, orcs never attacked the fellowship. It robs the threat of what is supposed to be scary, when all the characters are just safe from it. 2. It's not a problem anymore. Adam is now dead, and the exterminations have stopped. There is no longer any real motive for anyone in hell to want to go to heaven. I really hope the next season addresses this problem, because as the story is currently, lacking any reasonable continuation.
@@pizzastuffed_crust392 He is, he's a spider as far as his animalistic basis but he's a clown as far as his "circus theme" in the rings. Beelzebub is a hound and a honeybee but her theme in the circus vibe is that of being a beastmaster, Asmodeus is a bird and a magician, Lucifer is of course and angel but the front man of the circus. Satan will probably be a strong man, I'm guessing an acrobat for the ring of Envy, maybe one of those "large women" for Sloth.
Viv said that she REALLY likes Jack Skellington so all of her favorite characters are basically some variation of Jack Skellington and you can definitely see that.
You are the first person I’ve seed who’s mentioned the weird whiplash from Vaggie’s deeper tone speaking voice, and her higher register singing voice. It was something that I notice immediately and thought it was weird how a deep voiced character pumps out high notes, but no one else was mentioning it
@@Randomyoutuber-4831 I get that it’s a thing that happens with being VAs and speaking in a characters voice, but do people generally have a different register singing voice then their speaking voice?
honestly i wish they gave stephanie beatriz direction that kept her characterization consistent. she got great range but damn she talks with her rosa voice and sings with her mirabel voice
@@scarletrain6757I agree with your point because I do think it's clearly jarring in Vaggie's circumstance, but just wanted to point out that yes this is rare, but possible. My speaking register would signify a contralto, but I generally sing in my coloratura extension. This generally happens when someone has a huge range (I have F3-F6) and grows up speaking in one range but is trained to sing in the other.
I hate to tell you this because it involves more Vivzie homework, but the spider girl in "Welcome to Heaven" is named Molly. Molly is a spider because she's Angel Dust's fraternal twin sister and you can tell she's Angel's twin when you think about her name for 3 seconds. It's not very clever and it is literally just an easter egg.
Yea she is but you don't have to know that for this season. So long as they put that info in the show when it becomes relevant then it's fine as just an easter egg for long time fans for now
@@AmyOhHenry225 And I can absolutely respect that opinion on the topic. It IS fine to have easter eggs for your more "loyal" or "long term" fans. I'm a big One Piece fan, and the movie Stampede was made to celebrate 20 years of One Piece. It's full of filler characters from the anime, references to other films, and the antagonist is basically an oc. Easter eggs are fun and can be a blink and you miss it moment, but they can be detrimental. I will still stand by the fact that Molly contradicts what we understand about Angel and even conflicts with the show. If the angels do not know what qualifies someone to get into heaven and they literally have an example of a girl from the same mobster family up there in heaven. The whole family are spiders is because of the "web of lies" they were caught up in. You would think that this would be relevant information considering that entire episode is based around how Angel might have improved enough to be in heaven. Looking at the actions of his twin who we assume grew up in the same home is super important. What made her able to go up?
@@gamehoarder3149Adam is a dick wad but he is in heaven. Youre basically making an assumption that Angels sister is a bad person or involve in the family activity
The doing "homework" to understand all these random characters that barely get introduced, reminds me a lot on how Arcane was able to take pre-existing League of Legends characters with a ton of lore STILL be able to gain fans from people who never played the game or even know it originated from a game.
Yeah but that wasn't homework, arcane even changed established lore to fit the narrative better and spent a lot more time establishing characters. Arcane didn't take time away from the plot to introduce "worthless characters" either. I like hazbin but as a whole the 1st season felt like a massive lore dump for the 2nd.
@@pvtghost117 Omg!That show is so good that I have never seen it (I watched it via character analysis and clips) and I still remember the main plot line (a feew sides plot lines) and all the important characters!!! There is no doubt that Arcane is a master class On how to present characters and tell stories
I will say this about the show, they managed to deliver a great villain song that Disney hasn’t produced in YEARS since tangled. Like Hell is Forever SLAPS! “This is the thanks I get” from Wish could not even dream of being even half as good. Idk if that’s impressive on the hazbin show runners part or just pathetic on Disney’s
If you really wanna push it, "Peaches" from the Super Mario Brothers movie was a better villain song than "This is the Thanks I Get?" Heck, Bowser in that movie was a better classic Disney villain than what we've had in years!
Just thought I’d say this, Carmilla put down her har only because Vaggie complained about fighting with long hair. She immediately untied her hair when Vaggie said this to pretty much to show Vaggie “I’m fighting with long hair too, but I can still fight. What’s your excuse?”
The Vee’s feel like the perfect villains for a first season while Heaven and adam feel perfect for a second The show we have now feels like the first half of s1 and the second half of s2 sandwiched together
I honestly thought maybe Vox would cut a sort of deal with the Exorcist angels so that he could get Allistor out of the picture and hold onto his status quo since Allistor openly threatened to break it. That seemed like something he would do if he gave a shit about getting rid of the guy, as well as something that would raise the stakes, but he just sat back and did nothing instead, then he and the other Vees acted like they were hot at the end despite doing nothing.
Honestly, with the 8 episodes they were given, I probably would have used Episode 6 as the finale to set up for season 2, and I would have dropped the shorter time between exterminations. Then I would have spent the season setting up some more slice of life character moments which felt like they were missing. Subsequently, yeah, I think the Vee's would have been PERFECT season 1 antagonists. It was established early on that Al and Vox fought each other, which implies similar in power...even if lets say Vox needed the other Vee's to match Al.
I agree that having the Vee's be antagonists of S1 would have been fantastic for setting up the hotel and having them be right there every time they have a stumble to broadcast it to the whole ring, however I worry about giving them too much time and pushing their narratives too quickly until you realize "shoot, we kind of resolved Angel's issues with Val by the season one finale, now what do we do?". What they need is to keep the Vee's, and build up the recurring Loan Sharks as a much more up-front issue to deal with, perhaps the Hotel is on/next to their turf, so Charlie is either "encroaching" on what they see as theirs, or they see the Hotel as easy pickings now that it's full of what they consider weaklings.
@@MorningDusk7734 Wonderful wording, I didn't really get into further details, and of course I wouldn't want something like Angel's plot to be wrapped up just like that. Everything you said is the kinda brain worms that have been sitting in the back of my head since finishing season 1. Overall point being, keeping it to the Vee's and leaving Heaven out of it until Charlie gets her meeting as a theoretical season 1 finale probably would have opened up more character moments, both for establishing as well as growth. That would give us enough to show more of Pen and Angel improving, and it would make Angel's choices and Val confrontation during the Heavenly court mean so much more.
I think your section on Angel was great, as a victim seeing a lot of ppl tell me I was wrong for disliking it even other victims yk, I feel like you're right either way is valid to feel and at the end of the day we shouldn't really be divided like this.
I’m also sorry (even if I didn’t take part in this mud-slinging fight). Saying, about a VERY COMPLEX ISSUE, that somebody is wrong or somebody else is right about it only harms those who don’t deserve further hurt. Know that the people with two braincells to rub together know this. :’(
@@rubyy.7374 It should be pointed out that most of the people who criticize those who take issue with the portrayal of Angel Dust do so not for disliking it, but for doing that thing people do on the internet where they make it a moral thing where you're straight not allowed to like it or you're a victim blamer or fetishist or something. If you got shit just for saying you didn't like it, odds are (though there's always crazies) people read you saying that and inferred all I've said before from it.
(This is during the sa/ r*pe part so don’t click the timestamp if you are nervous about being triggered) 58:06 made me absolutely bawl. Thank you, it’s dumb but hearing someone say that really does mean a lot. I’m on the side that loves Angel Dust’s portrayal, because it’s very close to how I felt and what I experienced. Those who feel like it’s fetishizing/ romanticizing/ mocking: YOU ARE VALID IN THAT THINKING. I don’t agree, but what you think matters. It’s just tough. It’s a tough topic, that will have varying experiences and reactions. But for me, Angel Dust is the closest to what I went through.
This!! I did the same as angel did after what happened to me, it was trauma response. I don't do it now, but it's not like it doesn't happen! It's not always closing yourself to any sexual activity, sometimes you expose yourself much more in order to cope! You are valid, i hope you feel better now
hard agree, angel's experiences reflect mine a lot, and i don't think anyone is saying angel dust isn't accurate. he's VERY accurate, it's just how he's handled that's the issue, and people are allowed to say it's fetishizing even tho it's relatable.
I think my biggest gripe with the show is that it changes from a hotel trying to redeem people in the pilot to "Heaven won't let us redeem so lets go to war!" Because of that change, I think that's where a lot of problems stem from. You have to introduce a whole new setting and its culture (Heaven), new antagonists (Angels, specifically Adam), and the relationship between the two settings. That along with wanting to develop your already big cast of characters makes the rushed plot makes sense.
In order for the hotel to work, you absolutely need Heaven on your side. So the first step is dealing with how Heaven views the concept of redemption. The way it played out in season one works the best for the next season. Now the audience knows that redemption is possible, and Heaven knows it just can’t go down and kill whoever they want.
@@pemguim1120 My problem isn't heaven, it's how heaven is implemented. The premise of the show is to make people live in a hotel about redeeming themselves, and Heaven/Adam just goes "Nah fuck you" in the first episode. This makes it seem like the Hotel and redemption worthless, and makes Charlie look like an idiot for continuing with the idea. If they held back on heaven saying No until at least the middle of the season or end of it, then it feels more tragic when, despite all this effort the protagonists went through, it's all for nothing. Instead of painting Charlie as an idiot pushing for something that won't ever happen, it makes her look naïve and inexperienced, or blind to potential failure. I'd also argue you don't heavens approval. After all, they still don't have it when Sir P is redeemed. But you at least need hints as to what heaven thinks of the idea. Adam's meeting with Charlie is enough to show what heaven thinks of redemption or at the very least what the exterminators think. You can then have some other angel fly down to Hell and inform Charlie that, despite what Adam thinks, others in heaven believe in redemption, or have Charlie find an old book Lucifer kept when he was an angel/he tells her that it is possible, but he's never seen it. That's it. You don't need to even see heaven for it to have the same effect, and it keeps focus down in Hell.
@@blade1hunter100 Charlie’s goal of redeeming sinners is supposed to feel almost hopeless. The task of taking people who have committed horrible crimes and enjoy doing so and making them better themselves is a hard task. This depiction of Heaven is one that is very cynical about the morality of allowing souls to be tormented for eternity with no hope for betterment. I don’t think it makes Charlie look stupid for still believing in her cause just because the leader of the army that enjoys killing her people doesn’t like the idea. Adam does not represent all of Heaven, but he was the only figure Charlie could meet at that time in the story. Furthermore, once we see the trial in Heaven where it is ruled that redemption of sinners is impossible, Charlie still doesn’t look stupid because Sera is clearly incorrect and misguided. We see the other angels in the courtroom argue with each other, and Emily very clearly takes Charlie’s side. We as an audience are then validated for believing in Charlie’s mission by seeing Sir Pentious be redeemed. We now know that she was right all along and are now left to wonder what heavens response will be. I didn’t mean to say redemption without heaven was impossible, just that it would be a much more peaceful solution than both sides going to war
@@pemguim1120you don't need heaven on your side. Sir pentious got redeemed and was reborn as an angel, even when heaven was against the redemption of sinners.
Honestly to add on to that, it drives me mad that both Camilla’s side hair are two different styles: one of them curls at the end, and the other straight down. It annoys me so much!!!
and Vaggie’s X like Camilla brings it up so is it just deadass floating there?… It would make sense to make it an eye patch or something… and how is the X even related to angels when almost every character has a damn X on them- MY GOD ITS SO FRUSTRATING LMAOOO
@@shxdeeii5439 here's what I know about that thanks to homework I did prior [just a lil], if we look at the designs of the masks the exterminators have, it has an X over the eye, and while I don't know why that is, it could have been pointed out a bit more in the show, since I only knew this by being a long time fan
Oh man, that "I changed the design, can you tell what changed?" exercise is a FANTASTIC way to show which parts of design aren't sticking. I wasn't really able to catch any of the Hazbin edits except Angel's bowtie xD;; I feel like "You Didn't Know" seems to encapsulate a lot of Hazbin Hotel in general. A lot of characters trying to have some spotlight all at once (Six!!!), and swearing in sometimes weird spots (Charlie saying "That's what the fuck I've been saying" sounds so off - like I feel it should be "that's what I've been fucking saying") ... but when it focuses on the main plot (Charlie and Emily's parts) it really hooks you. I agree wholeheartedly with all your points on the swearing. I feel it also has the impact lessened by the fact that nearly everyone is swearing? Like yeah it's Hell - but if everyone is swearing like you said that can't be a joke anymore, now it's a dialect. A really good review! :>
I think Charlie’s swears work well because she didn’t swear a lot. And it works in the duet song because of the beat. Every other time does sound off tho
i didnt even notice that he only had two gloves on thats all i noticed unfortunately his eyes are too small to be seen from that scale but they ARE good character design
@@kelvisaisawesome The only time it worked well was in the pilot. Because it FEELS like she dropped the b word, despite the fact we should be bored of and used to people calling each other bitches. Swears work if you treat them like swears instead of filler words like pre schoolers do
@@Davidledonkayy Theyre not good, but they have great ideas. A tall spider character with multiple arms is great. A character with a tv for a head is great. A demonic character with medieval hair that looks like horns is great. It just sucks how weird the outfits are and how everything has too much stripes and spots
Viv's biggest problem is she refuses one of writing's biggest tips for bloat: Kill Your Darlings. She could have cut Mimzie and replaced her with Cherri Bomb, cut Zestial and replace him with Alastor being in the room, cut the requirement to have 2 songs per episode, have Charlie already have guessed that Vaggie was an angel and chose to keep quiet, allowing that plot point to resolve in a single 2 minute conversation rather than an episode, which could have been made more interesting by flipping who was sent to do what: have Charlie go to Carmilla for information and have Vaggie go to Cannibal Town to rally troups. What at first glance sounds like great choices forces them into each others' fortes and gives Vaggie a chance to sit down and express her devotion to Charlie. I think Viv popped the Angel load to early, it was too high stakes for the first season on top of trying to establish characters, plus she must have gotten Alex as Adam pretty early and was super hyped about that character. She assumed that everyone already knew the characters, and she wasn't guaranteed a second season, so she decided to cram as much as possible into 8 episodes. If she knew she had a second season, she could have taken a breath and had us actually see the character development on screen, made me actually feel something when Sir Pentious got sacrificed. Instead we had her cram everything she wanted into one sprint with a dozen songs, a couple dozen character cutouts, and a Schrodinger's Pilot where we're supposed to watch it but just let the show retcon if there's a contradiction.
Except for the Mimzie part I fully disagree with this. 2 songs an episode is one of the best decisions they made, Zestial is fun and has great potential, I liked seeing Charlie upset that Vaggie hid this big thing for her, etc. I think I would've enjoyed your version way less than what we got.
@@DennisH.-og2pjI don't think they dislike Zestial as a character- rather the role he filled this season could've easily been replaced by Alastor, with Zestial appearing later down the line in the show or something. After all, Alastor learns the information about Carmilla either way; having him be in the room with Carmilla when she discusses her actions would allow more time spent with his character rather than what, to the audience, is basically a random scary old overlord we just met.
@@Kye9842 but theres obviously a closer relationship between carmila and zestial then carmila and alastor, it wouldnt have made sense for carmila to just tell alastor the info, she knows hes trouble, while she obviously respects and trusts zestial. Hopefully we get more of them in the next season
Thing that broke me about the character designs is how almost all have (a) Big shoulders (b) bow ties (c) thin as a pencil. When you start to look at say Vox, Lucifer and Alistor, it’s jaw dropping how similar they are despite all the noise etc
That’s called having a unique art style. Literally every cartoon does something like that to distinguish itself from other series. Just look at South Park or the simpsons.
@@Randomyoutuber-4831 No, this is Viv being bad at character design. Why would you have the King of Hell, a Overlord who likes the 1930's era and refuses to adapt to modern times, and a Overlord who likes to keep with the current trends to stay popular all wear same clothing/accessories? Like where's the variety? SP and Simpsons did character variety well, and SP's art style very simple. Hell the main 4 kids in SP have more variety then the main group of Hazbin
@@BirdWord03 The better question is: why not? Why can't they wear similar clothing accessories? They all embody the showman archetype in different ways so their clothing styles reflect that with slight differences that set them apart. Lucifer wears white and has a more regal vibe, Alastor wears red with clear signs of wear and tear on his clothing, and Vox wears black with a more business casual vibe to it. Meanwhile South Park literally lampshaded how similar the designs are in an episode where the boys become part of a cult: lose the hair and put them in similar outfits and apart from Cartman, they all look exactly the same.
@@Randomyoutuber-4831 The issue is mainly how Viv and her team decided to go about the designs alongside their character/personality. Vox and Alastor can both wear shoulder pads for example, but why would Vox want to dress similarly to someone he hates? Don’t you think Hell’s citizens would notice the two dress alike despite having beef? We know Alastor isn’t going to update his wardrobe bc of his hate for everything modern, so why doesn’t Vox just wear a suit where the shoulder pads aren’t as big? Or have him wear something more cyberpunk/futuristic since he loves technology and wants to be trendy? Why is he wearing a hat when most news anchors today don’t? That’s not following the trends! And for accessories, Vox could have cool little electronic add ons to his outfit or even his body like wires/cables, maybe parts of his body can glow. What if he has the body of a robot, maybe he can transform his limbs into weapons/tools. He could also have accessories that match with Velvette and Valentino to show his connection with them. Vox alone is wasted potential design wise with just how much could’ve been done with him. You can’t tell me that a TV Overlord who controls all of Hell’s electricity and loves to advance with times shouldn’t have a more futuristic appearance, ESPECIALLY with his clothing
@@tbeast151 by that reply I genuinely don’t think you understand the specificity behind Viv’s decision, broadway means a very precise level of vocal skills and singing range, something the original voice actors didn’t have, nor could they just learn it overnight, it’s an extremely arduous skillset requiring years of training to acquire and even then, physically some peoples vocal cords aren’t ever going to be capable of it. It truly seems so much criticism sent Viv’s way is based on people outside the animation industry making assumptions about an industry and the skill sets of the various jobs within it despite knowing absolute nothing about any of it, let alone having actually been employed within it. There’s things to criticise her for, like her childish Twitter spats or various craft related criticisms, like her tendency to deviate from a show’s original premise/genre partway through, lack of body shape diversity in character designs, too much reliance on characters swearing for humour, etc, but waaaay too much of the hate she gets is just so painfully uninformed. It also seems some people are so determined to hate her from the get go, they brush off any information provided to them that disproves a disparaging assumption they have about her. Seeing as there’s still so many legitimate things to critique her for, it’s weird how zealously people will cling to the low-information, bad-faith assumptions irregardless of the additional information that disproves them.
@@tbeast151Yeah but if he couldn’t sing then she wouldn’t have chose him? Her first priority was musical talent, and added fame was just an extra bonus that wasn’t necessary.
Yeah I agree on the cast, some are big names, but most of them clearly have been chosen for their abilites. Actors like Jeremy Jordan, Christian Borle and Alex Brightman are big names but only among the musical community, which Vivziepop is a part of
On the subject of swearing in comedy. Swearing can be funny, but it should be the icing on the cake that is the joke. The punchline shouldn't rely on just swearing. Here's an example off the top of my head: Mad Max's introduction scene in The Wolf of Wall Street. In that scene, Max Belfort starts cursing up a storm because he's getting a phone call. The joke isn't that he's swearing up and down. The joke is that he's swearing up and down over something as miniscule as a telephone interrupting his television program. Not to mention the fact that there's more to it than that. When he answers the call, he flips a switch and speaks in a calm tone (with a British accent). But when he hangs up, he flips the switch again and goes back to being Mad Max. That is hysterical and always gets me to laugh no matter how many times I see it because of the sheer absurdity of it, not just because an old man is cursing.
Asymmetrical comedy seems to be the most effective, at least as I see it. The example off the top of my head would be that one Half Life video where a scientist says "Ah, it's good to see you-- Gordon you _lousy motherfucker_. Get your dork ass down to the test chamber or else I'll shove the sample up your ass!" Hearing a character who's almost exclusively seen to be cowardly, running and screaming from any conflict, suddenly being so hostile is just funny as hell.
"Constrast Comedy" seems to be the most effective, at least as I see it. The example off the top of my head would be that one Half Life video where a scientist - who are almost exclusively seen to be cowardly, running and screaming from any conflict - swears at and threatens Gordon for being a nuisance.
Curse words also lose their punch the more they're used, so after a point when they're used so much they just become filler words that bloat the dialogue.
@@Jeikobu Yeah you get it! One of my favorite examples of this rule being used to advantage is Bojack Horseman. From ehat I understand, they reserve only one "fuck" per season, so when it gets dropped you FEEL that impact. And because of this, it's often reserved for devestating moments in the narrative
There’s so many things I could add but Alastor: I was surprised when I heard him swear and immediately disappointed when he did the second time, why? It’s incredibly out of character, he’s the _one_ person who wouldn’t say something vulgar because of his 1920s style and decorum which is very obvious…in the pilot. They wasted a chance to make both his jokes and insults stand out by making them old-fashioned, maybe the joke in itself could’ve been that he talks about obsolete technology and no one gets it, like Vaggie: “I need a camera” Alastor: *poof* Vaggie: “a…video-camera?” Alastor: “you seem disappointed I can’t see how could you be, the _daguerreotype_ was the greatest invention of the 1850s, truly a revolutionary tool that needs no upgrades! I’ll get you some mercury vapor-“
The thing with alastor is just half true people in the 1930s tend to swear when they get really annoyed so its not really surprising that he swears. "Fuck you" already excisted in the 1890s. But yeah when he said "i gonna end your fucking life" was really out of character for him to say and makes him seem like that he tries to be cool.
@@obehiikhigbonoaremen1241 i don’t doubt people yelled ‘fuck’ in the 1930s (though they surely didn’t swear as casually as we do now), what bugged me about Alastor’s swearing is that it felt out of character for him because he is consistently portrayed as some kind of well-spoken gentleman, that cares about style and social status that kind of stuff
Same, I get so annoyed at people who defend it. Even if people swore a lot, that was one thing that made Alastor stand out so much more in hell despite being a serial killer overlord. He had standarts. He hates vulgar language, enjoys cooking with passion and in the human world, nobody would have suspected him as a sadistic serial killer cuz he was always so well put together and mannared. Very few of his sly scemes did reaveal themselfs in the pilot. He is supposed to be mysterious. Now he is just the same edgelord anybody in hell is.
Alastor was allowed one curse word as a "woah, he must be really affected to act ooc like that". The second swear was just bad since the first already robbed it of meaning.
I do have something to say about the extermination "change". To me, it isn't that big of change? It's like they added depth to it more than anything. Before it was "Hell is overpopulated so let's kill them", now it's "Because Hell is overpopulated, we are afraid they might rise up, so let's kill them", the thing really didn't change that much. Heck, Charlie even presents the problem to Adam as overpopulation in Ep 1, so it STILL IS overpopulation, it just now has the added detail that they're afraid of conflict because of said overpopulation and growth in power, which makes sense to be fair. I don't think this "change" needs that much thought put into it honestly.
I think it doesn't help because from what was mostly established, the culling had a genuine reason making angels not looks directly as bad giving that sorta grace where Adam fails. If angels just like killing for killing thus that being the reason for pushing up the date it puts them in that box of 'angels aren't any better so why treat them as such'. More so, was there any threat of an uprising, I would have understood them wanting to do so if that was a genuine motivation but from what we knew sinner's were constantly preoccupied with drugs, violence, and other things hell had to offer-- making overpopulation still a result of what they established in the pilot and thus why angel's were motivated to do this task. I don't think by any means why it a big change but I think it made a difference in that distance of heaven/hell without really fleshing it out as a whole which did damage a lot of worldbuilding of heaven/angels.
@@Unhappytimeaper Purely pased on the information we have in the series proper I got this understanding, without even trying to analyze it deeply whatsoever: - The overpopulation is a front, constructed in order to hide the fact that they are actually just terrified of an uprising being feasible if they get the numbers required to charge heaven. - They are scared of an uprising, specifically because there was an attempt previously. Hence why Sera sees it as "necessary". - Angels aren't supposed to be "better" or "more graceful" than the sinners. The show is specifically centered around the fact that God isn't necessarily a good person, and that there is no specific criteria for becoming an angel, and its all "rules for thee, but not for me" sort of deal. Literally just listen to "Hell is forever" and "You didn't know" and this should be extremely obvious. - Its not that the angels enjoy killing sinners. That is specifically Adam, who is an ass. We have no reason to believe all the exterminators enjoy killing them, which is exemplified by Vaggie not wanting to kill a child, and is thrown aside because of it. They are likely terrorized into committing these murders, or think its not actually morally wrong to kill the sinners.
@@zillva well so basically your just describe other others mentioned in the video, why try to establish rules in the pilot, expect people to understand the pilot, and then change elements for a story because you change your mind while still expecting people to remember the pilot. Like I said, even if there was to be an uprising again the whole logic was that sinner’s are too distracted to do so in the first place (which honestly is a more interesting route of angels supplying hell with things to keep sinners distracted by that’s my two cents). Besides if overpopulation is just a front I call lazy thematic into play when wanting to discusses how the show wants to tap into the topic of why many aren’t getting into heaven/heaven qualifications that are being set up to be explored, let alone cut off part of the motivations for Charlie already established of even if over population is a problem you have to start with one. Elements of graceful is meant to be that those in heaven clearly have an over inflated self perception, something already established in other works. If you want interesting character over play it, make them consider themselves better and refined and ‘graceful’ like how cherubs presented themselves while still keeping immoral snobbiness- make it even stronger with angels to the point it’s actually funny. Their seemingly positive traits ultimately flaws because they see themself better than sinners, even in the show parts of this are played up such as Charlie cussing and them getting upset or how exactly seem with the cherub’s cussing being seen as a big deal. Motivating characters to be different and have characterization that is still polar of those in hell while still not making them good people is what would have driven them into likely being better written character which is personally something I think this change in concept forced them into a box without fleshing out these establishments of heaven- just like how Adam sucking but others disagreeing doesn’t help build a premise. By the original logic it makes the exterminators feel as if they have to answer to a role they are costed to do, even under someone like Adam who clearly enjoys it while I find pushing it up cuts the weight for all other exterminators. Like I said I don’t think it’s the biggest change but I think it highlights at best Viv wanted to rewrite the premise of why the hotel is in place but ignores that heaven was not fleshed out enough to explain these changes in the state that it’s in. The video said it best, what makes heaven different and interesting to hell because this new version doesn’t supply much, and honestly I can think of very easy ways to not have to change it while still getting us directly to the season’s plot line without trying to alter established concepts in a show where you expect audiences to do fan homework.
@@Unhappytimeaper "why try to establish rules in the pilot, expect people to understand the pilot, and then change elements for a story because you change your mind while still expecting people to remember the pilot." This isn't what happened. That's why. We learnt that the extermination was happening because of overpopulation in the pilot, because that's what the characters think the reason is. And that IS consistent with the rest of the series. There is no objective narrator, so unless a character tells us this, we would never know about it in the first place. Not to mention that Charlie knowing this would ultimately make her goal impossible, as she would then know that redeeming them wouldn't help whatsoever for everyone else going down there. "even if there was to be an uprising again the whole logic was that sinner’s are too distracted to do so in the first place" What are you basing this on? The reason there hasn't been an uprising in the last 10,000 years is because none of the sinners even know they *can* hurt the angels to begin with. There wasn't any "distractions". They thought it was hopeless. You can even see this in how NO ONE has fought back during an extermination, and would rather just run. Its also why a dead angel is such a huge deal, because it instantly makes the possibility of a new uprising so much more probable. "the topic of why many aren’t getting into heaven/heaven qualifications" Again, this is explained very well in the series so far. Heaven DOESN'T have a set of rules. Its all arbitrary, because there isn't "good" or "bad" in these scenarios. Adam is designed purely to display this fact. God chooses the ones he wants to choose, and its an extremely biased selection. Two people could lead the exact same life, and they could still be placed differently. Heaven DOES NOT have rules, or if they do, said rules are not held to any form of standard. "Their seemingly positive traits ultimately flaws because they see themself better than sinners" The exterminators, or at least Lute and Adam specifically, are directly shown to think sinners are lesser than the angels, so I don't really understand this complaint either. They think they are so much better, that its straight up racism. Sera also thinks heaven is more worthy of living that hell, hence why she's willing to hold the exterminations to begin with. Your entire comment is based on the fact that the reasoning for the extermination was changed after the pilot, when genuinely nothing points towards that being the case. There are zero reason for us to learn about the front in the pilot, unless they were to introduce Adam in the pilot, which they didn't. There was no way to tell us without introducing an exterminator to directly tell us this was the case
@@Unhappytimeaper it is not necessary to watch the pilot to understand the show. I watched the show without having watched the pilot and didn't even know there was a pilot and had not problem with it.
I won't argue with the characters being overdesigned 90% of the time. However, something that I really enjoy is how overdesigned almost all of the background characters are. You could plug out like 4 random background hell denizens and probably use them as the cast for its own TV show.
Viv's writing style always reminded me of Rebecca Sugar and I couldn't understand why, but I finally get it . she's an artist not a writer so the story goes off on weird tangents, character arcs don't make sense, important stuff comes out of nowhere without setup, But an artist will say "wouldn't it be cool if I did this?"
As an artist who writes as a side hobby,oh it's definitely hard for the two to not mix You have all these interesting ideas but no clue how to get to those points in the story
There are similarities, though I do think Rebecca Sugar handled the musical aspects of her show better because she didn't have two every episode, many not even having a single one, whereas the 2-song per episode quota is kind of a detriment at times in HH. I honestly rank the songs in Episode 3 much lower than most people do because "Respectless," while catchy, isn't anything that couldn't have done by the characters talking and they're just in a meeting room without any interesting visuals, and the second song has some interesting visuals on Vaggie's side, but Carmilla only gets close-ups on her face and she doesn't really deserve a big, emotional song when we've known her maybe 5 minutes max.
@@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482 I get that, but i do wonder if that decision might of hurt the series a bit more then help it. It takes a lot of time and effort to pull off a musical number, espically in animation. So two per episide might of been a resource drain. Of course, the writing suffers as well since the episodes have to be written around the musical episodes. That means the plots and character moments have a bit less time to breath. I do wonder if it would of been better to have one big musicsl number per episide and have smaller numbers to make up for the missing musical number
24:55 she is a spider bcause she is angel dust sister Molly . To understand this u need to watch her old art ( this is bad cause its homework just like u said )
I disagree, because Molly isn't currently relevant, and there's no reason to believe we won't get an explanation when it does become relevant. Not only that, but Viv herself says that you shouldn't apply old information to the show because she's made plenty of changes, so she doesn't WANT you to do any homework, that's not homework.
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qqyes they were humans born into the mafia. Mafia families are often refered to as spider webs, thats why Angel and molly are spiders
Your section on Angel Dust is probably the most thoughtful and well-spoken section I've seen. I really appreciate it. The rest of your video is also fantastic, honestly really like the way you broke things down about the show, but I have to give a highlight to your section on Angel and the way it handles the topics of SA.
The best way I can describe HH and Helluva Boss to me is like if a new Batman show pilot comes out and its premise involves the Joker and Batman working together. Then when the full show finally airs episode one ends with all the villains in jail, including the Joker. The rest of the series involves Bruce doing his company taxes. Both HH and HB have a great premise that's immediately kicked to the side because Vivz has story ADHD to the extreme.
As someone who studied writing and worked as an editor for various projects of my peers in college a few years back I have so many opinions on this show that all fall back on the reality that this is an oc artist who blew up without any seemingly fundamentals on storytelling/character arcs. I say all of this as someone who really liked the pilot and looked forward to the show for a few years, I even at one point liked Helluva but with similar issues it's really hard for me to like Hazbin and not just the individual concepts. Because the sad thing is I don't think Viv has bad ideas or even bad character. Nevertheless, Viv acts and treats her worlds/characters as some tumblr oc blog where concepts and characters are same level of importance or even jokes are left to be within the social circles of those who were there [Vaggie's name for example but even the swearing]-- all backed up by the fact these shows expect audiences to be in the lore loop from outside media. If Viv wants to continue in this field, there needs to be a change in listening to feedback other than saying 'well it's my humour, well it's my story, well it's--" because it's unsustainable. This season sucked because for all the thing I did like it took three steps back in trying to be so much. With a confirmed season two already it really sucks they needed to get all these characters in and all these plots while fully changing the pilot's idea which got people interested. I didn't personally really care to come in to see 'let's go to war with heaven!' I wanted to see characters in hell having to improve through the hotel and hell being itself. It feels like partly because it took so long to get this deal Viv sorta moved on concept wise from what Hazbin was meant to be and jumped the ship to wanting to fit as many characters in as possible because of Viv overly caring about characters as stand alone rather than moving parts. Fitting a season purely about redemptions and it's themes while understanding hell/how sinners get there would have been such a great concept but no, we need all these other characters and threats because Viv likes ocs. All of this is to say, in blunt terms. Viv's works are the wattpad turned movie versions of animation. Edit; also in personal opinion it feels like they burned through so much of the interesting plot points in a rush the season while you can point out where season 2 might go honestly do I even really care? so much of it being rushed makes me feel like what even is the point? Keep the Lucifer/Charlie make up moment til season 2 as something genuine to look forward to, don't rush to kill your character to get them into heaven to say it can be done, give the V's genuine space so now there wasn't five villains trying to push into the spotlight--
Honestly the argument some people have about the pacing that it's Amazon's fault for giving them only 8 episodes... No. It's not all Amazon's fault. It's also VIV'S fault as well. She did not adapt to her new situation and instead of cutting off unnecessary plot lines and ideas instead she shoved EVERYTHING into this season without any care for proper storytelling and what we are left with are ideas of what her ideas could be where conflicts are started in the same episode they are finished and the story doesn't move until a song is done. That is a BIG issue. For a good series that managed to make the most out of it's limited time look at Over The Garden Wall. A short series of 10 11 MINUTE episodes that managed to tell a cohesive, well paced great story with great characters and great music. It managed to accomplish more with less than what HH did in it's season 1. And I think that is why Episode 7 is my favorite. It reminded me the most of OTGW. Now I know OTGW was meant to be a one story for one season, but if Viv did not know that she will get a second season then she should have treated it like OTGW creators did. To me they should have cut MOST of the plot lines and leave maybe only Angel Redemption where you can focus on it. Let this one idea be focused on and be well developed. Let it be the overarching goal of the season. Redeeming your first sinner and make it feel impactful so even if you do not have a season 2 you still have one cohesive story with beginning, middle and end that can end on an impactful and hopeful note as you explore what it means to redeem someone and feel the weight of redemption when it finally happens. You can explore in depth the most important element of the story, the thing that this story is build upon and what the titular Hotel is all about. Redemption. Through that you can delve into Angel's character, show his flaws and issues that he has to overcome, sins he committed in life he has to atone for and get over. Delve into this idea and explore it as much as you can and when redemption happens you know how much it takes to redeem someone and what it means. And then if you DO get Season 2 you can show this happen a lot faster with more sinners and that would lead to sense of progression around which you can write more drama. Maybe with Charlie who may be getting more and more conflicted as she sees people she grows to care about go away. Also this allows you to take more time with character interactions. Make them more varied. Maybe through trying to get this one person redeemed you can have everyone contribute in their own way where you can either learn more about them, Angel or both and around that can be made unique interactions between ALL of the characters and it lets you explore more of the hotel which helps you care about it. And it also can lead you to introduce more characters, but those would be all centered around this story and one goal, making it make sense and be cohesive when they show up. It would immensely help with character interactions which are LAUGHABLY sparse as characters barely interact with one another besides the ship pairs like Vaggie and Charlie or Husk and Angel where neither of those even have much of a chemistry at all and require the audience to already be invested in those. Which makes the entire cast feel very shallow. Not to mention that we barely spend any time at the hotel and we see barely any location inside it besides the main hall so when it finally is broken we feel nothing as we barely got to know that location. And it's fixed in ONE song. That's not how you do it. Think about it. All of those emotional beats. First redeemed sinner. Death of Pentious. Death of Dazzle. Destruction of the Hotel. Appearance of Heaven. All of it feels WEAK as none of those ideas were given proper time and so they are barely noticeable. And that was the ONLY chance Viv had at doing those. And she wasted them on this rushed season. And let me tell you. If I had a choice between putting all of my ideas into one story and almost all of them being underdeveloped and bad in execution or putting fewer ones and letting them be developed into something great then I choose the latter. People may not see all of my ideas, but those they will, they will remember and looked back at fondly. Something I DO NOT think will happen with this. Not to mention how shallow morality is in this show. It is clear who is bad, who is good and the only outlier is Sera. Honestly. It is sad to see because there is SO MUCH potential for characters to be nuanced in this setting. Where you have to question if you can root for anyone and it is up to you to decide what to think of every character But Viv makes those characters so shallow and there is barely any nuance to anything which is disappointing. Especially with that redemption is PERFECT to explore very vile characters that you get to know more about and see what it may take for them to be better and maybe get invested in their struggle while still seeing a monster they were and it is up to YOU to decide whether or not they deserve forgiveness. Because tell me. What are Pentious and Angel even getting redeemed for? Pentious is not even evil in any way. He just pretends and Angel has what? Drug addiction? Being abused? THAT is what he has to get redeemed for? Because again. Entire cast is either full of fully good or fully evil characters where there is no room for nuance or interpretation. And villains for the most part feel like rehashes. Adam and Vees (especially Val) are just repeats of the same villains we already saw in HB. Crim, Stella, Mammon, Adam, Val. All of them are THE SAME and the only thing to distinguish them for is what character they abuse, but other than that they are all the same joke/"serious" villains that are about as threatening as Team Rocket. And all of them are either abusive dad or partner. 2 things Viv seemingly can only write about. Broaden your horizons. And Lucifer is just sad, depressed dad again who tries hard. LUCIFER! To call it a disappointment would be an understatement. Fhew... That was a long rant. Now it is not a terrible show, I do like some of the songs, animation is okay, voice acting can be good and I hope it gets better, but given how Viv reacts to Criticism and that Season 2 is already voiced... Yeah. I do not have high hopes. And I feel like with how much they did already they have like 2 more seasons at most worth of story to do.
To be fair Sir Pentious definitely was evil,he probably just didn’t have a opportunity for redemption till he was accepted into the hotel,also Angel definitely wasn’t exactly good either,he was clearly in the mob,still shows signs of criminal behavior
@@CrocsFortress The thing is though is that Pentious being evil never comes into play with him being there. We never even hear characters talk about their past which I think maybe Loser, Baby would be a good way to do it. Maybe Husk discussing how he also had terrible things in life that lead him to Hell. But with Pentious it means nothing, it doesn't matter and the only sort of flaws show focused on with Angel was what I said. He is addicted and is abused. That's it. No questioning of what he was in life and already show treats him like a changed man even though we never saw what he was changed FROM. We never even see him changing. We just see him before and after his change. And the middle part is the MOST important. And also... I am VERY scared they will do the same thing with Angel as they did with Moxxie. With his father just being against him because of his interest in man which I think will be a big shame. I had in mind for a while this dialogue for instance between Angel and his dad when Angel tries to call him out on him hating him for what gender he was into: "I hated you because...? Really? THIS is what you think I care about?! This is what you think is the worst quality of yours? THAT!? Anthony. May I remind you that after your brother was in a shoot out and almost died you NEVER showed up to check on him! You were busy, happily doing some performance in a club and when I tried to tell you about it you laughed! There was one day I saw you shaking on the floor, you overdosed. I was dragging your convulsing body to a hospital to save you. I was afraid to my core that you were close to ending up in this place, but you were saved... and what did I saw few days later? You doing drugs again! You left our house to become a dancer, humiliating your family and yourself and exposing yourself to danger despite what everyone said. You dismissed all of that. You told us to screw off from your life... And that's what I did. I do not hate you because you are g*y, h*mos*xual HOWEVER THE F*CK IT'S CALLED. I despise you now, because you are and always were a disrespectful, uncaring little sh*t caring more for your own pleasure than anything else. But never in my life or unlife would I despise you more than I ever loved you. But you did your damn best to make that happen." I think something like this would add A LOT of depth to Angel. Make it more complicated than just his dad hating him fully for what he was into. Make Angel feel like a being that NEEDS redemption. Atonement. Self reflection and forgiveness before he can become better and go to Heaven. But sadly I have big suspicion it will be the Crim situation. Without any nuance.
@@AzraelSoulHunterSir Pentious still had his issues,like his evil behaviors were still present like desire for revenge against Cherri Bomb,his time at the bar and bonding with his buds help him realize he doesn’t need to be a cartoon villain.Angel also is not fully redeemed,he’s still kind of sleezy and still has his murderous tendencies,he still has some baggage that he will possibly still haft to redeem for.Also having a abusive father wouldn’t really add more depth cause it’s repetitive at this point with Vivs works and Val already provided an interesting alternative in my opinion.
@@CrocsFortress As for murderous tendencies. Did you notice they switched Vaggie and Angels attitudes about turf wars? Anyway... Val is not really interesting. He is basically the same villain Viv has been doing for ages. I said it in OG comment. Him, Mammon, Crim, they are all so samey. And archetype they are is not that interesting in the first place. And I did not say Angel needs abusive dad. I said I am scared he will. When I would prefer for Angel to be far more flawed so his journey has more meaning. And in terms of his development we are still missing major chunks. Like him maybe struggle with not taking drugs or trying not to harass Husk. Instead we just jump to him already being at the end of that. And we barely saw aby of Pentious's evil and most of the time he was barely a Sinner as every bit of villains he did was so sparse. Most present in the damn pilot. If not all of it.
The show is basically high budget rwby. 1)Intresting premise. 2)Poor world building. 3)Bunch of shipping fodder. 4)A gimmick to hook the fans( fights/musical). 5) both started as indie animation.
same issues, but at least RWBY isn't run by theater nerds who want you to hear the smallest side character and go "oh my gosh, they got Darren Chris to voice St. Peter for one whole song???"
No but fr, the way they expect us to be Vivzie stans to enjoy the show. I asked something once on one of her videos and got dogpiled with “haven’t you watched all her streams and interviews?? 🤓” It’s like she’s striving to have us tune in on everything up to her pooping schedule.
they’re always like “well if you don’t like X then don’t watch the show 🤓” like bro, just because i think alastors emo bob looks weird doesn’t mean i don’t like the general story of the show… or the songs
fun fact The living tombstone is the one that writes all of the Hazbin hotel songs that explains why the rhymes and lyrics are the way they are also I think it’s so cool that the show around hell and Dead has a band called The Living Tombstone working on it music I just think that’s a cool detail!! Ｏ(≧▽≦)Ｏ
This is kinda like rwby v9 where i dropped it after an episode because i realized it wasnt my cup of tea, but i like watching people talk about it in a critical way
For me RWBY fell of I think V7 While issues were rising after V3 it still wasn't bad for me. Then volume 7 happened and the heros no longer felt like true heros after. Almost as if they knew they are in a TV show so they could do whatever they wanted even if it doesn't align with what a hero is. And this continues to V8 where they really mess over Ironwoods character by painting him as the bad guy and in case you were still on his side they made him kill someone. Ironwood was truly doing his best given his situation and the fact they lied to him for seemingly no reason and everything else. And the main crew tried to save everyone (yes a good thing) but it feels as if they knew they were in a show and should try because the writers would let them succeed further making the characters feel less real and ironwood further "evil" V9 while out of place feels like a breath of fresh air. Getting back to the original concept of how lots of the fairy tales are actually real. Wait.. OK my bad got carried away talking about RWBY under a video about Hazbin Hotel. Lol.
Rwby fell off since v4 I watched up until 5. Hazbin is actually pretty good, I do find it mildly insulting that you compare the two of them just because they both started off as indie shows
@user-so1yi2tm2r compared them? The only similarly they have is how I stopped watching them. When I say it's kinda like rwby I mean in the fact that i stopped watching it after an episode
As a sexual abuse victim I feel very mixed on angel dust. I'm glad the show is trying to represent a victim who deals with hypersexuality. I relate to angel alot myself. I feel like a lot of my issues are about the song poison, it kinda is because of the whiplash of seeing angel dancing around and then seeing him get abused. I know they where probably going with the dancing being what's on the surface level and the abuse being below the surface level but yea. But this is just my opinion of course. Edit: Plus the fact sir pentious getting taken advantage of is treated as a joke just makes me question what made the writers want to treat angels abuse with no humor yet give pentious a scene where his abuse is just a joke in the context of it. For the handling of angel dust I'm mixed but the shows handling of SA in general I'm leaning negative because they try to have their cake and eat it too.
I’m also a victim who struggles with hard drug addiction and i’ve always really liked angel as a character. I think poison works because it’s a montage of him working, where he has no choice but to make it look like he’s having a good time. Yeah the scene is uncomfortable but I don’t consider it exploitative or there for shock value. Also if he’s high, he’s experiencing an unstable sense of euphoria while being completely emotionally numb. They could never get it perfect and everyone is obviously entitled to feel however they want about it but i’m actually glad it was included as a plot line and they didn’t sugar coat it. I agree that the Sir Pentious joke was a bad idea. The buying everyone a drink part was funny but they just needed to do something like have him back out of the sex offer the moment he said it and not be ambiguously dragged into the room. I don’t know what exactly, it just needed reworking
It's because that's consistently I find a problem with Helluva and Hazbin as a whole; something is serious until we can use it as a joke against a character. Moxie getting 'jokingly' SA's in the succubus ep should have taught them that Pentious joke was a shit idea. It makes me constantly feel a cut that Angel's story isn't serious because they see the topic as worth being taken seriously but rather that it's just for the character overall creating a weirdly strange undertone. Something sadly a lot of of the character end up being put in because any deep moment or concept is fair game as still being a joke if they want it to be, which overall they do a few times in both shows. There is just so much Viv [and overall the team] consistently handle poorly regarding characters and serious topics that I get why it's one people get uncomfortable with them trying to handle.
The dancing is indeed his surface level attempt at faking control over the situation. Its totally fine if you don't like it, but its a really good illustration of how he tries to cope with his situation, in telling himself that he does have agency, when he really doesn't have any. Its the same as when someone tried to drug him, and he knew, but let it happen because "if he allowed it to happen, that's the same as him wanting it, right?". Something out of control happens, and he desperately tried to act like he did want it to happen that way. As for the Sir Pentious bit, I'm not really sure? Pentious did initiate in the first place, so its up in the air if it can even be claimed as abuse in the first place. He's not really even show to dislike the fact, so idk. It was a gag that didn't warrant further exploration, I guess?
@@zillva I'm commenting just the Sir Pentious part of your comment. He was shown disliking the fact. Being dragged while desperately trying to resist grabbing the floor is a clear indicator of dislike, and none of his friends tried to help him. They could still maintain the "sex with everyone" line and makes it end differently and they would have their joke without the sa...
One of my main criticisms of Hazbin Hotel is the pacing because of the short episode count. Remember when seasons of shows were 20+ episodes good times.
Honestly yes the 8 episode sucks. But the Writers would have know about this restriction. They decided to shoot themselves further in the foot by trying to compact everything into this one season. The Heaven episode should have been expanded and the final episode. The rest of the season should have been about the actual hotel and redeeming sinners.
@@et5216i kinda agree. But we'll have to watch season 2 to know for sure. Not to bash on your idea but I think that it's a very common sense approach if Viv didn't go for that route it's probably she had something else in mind. Either that or she was blind sighter with a short episode count at the last minute of production (which sadly does happen to some projects)
I learned some basic animation for game dev, and holy shit, those character designs would give me depression to animate, or even think about animating What I learned from my experience is simpler is easier (usually better as you can spend more effort adding animation and adding life to it than trying to draw all the little details) And fabric is a betch to animate (In addition to attack animations).
Isnt it a plot hole that Vaggie doesnt know that heavenly weapons can harm angels?? Wouldnt they be trained and educated to make sure angelic weapons are not lost or missplaced??
My biggest complaint of the show is that it never answers the question was is good, evil, and what it takes to be redeemed or condemned. Like I'm a Christian so of course I believe what the Bible says about these topics. I was really interested to see what Hazbin had to say about everything and get basically the "secular" point of view on everything, but it never really answered them. Like Adam is just as bad as, say, Angel Dust but he went to heaven and Angel didn't and they never answer why. I was so upset.
as someone who's (admittedly) never watched the show, and maybe I'm wrong here, but wouldn't it be an interesting plot point for adam to become a demon? afaik he's been a dick this whole series, to the angels and the demons because he's an angel. to be kicked out like lucifer was could have an interesting character arc for adam and have interesting ramifications on heaven's requirements. now adam has to converse with the demons and realizes he's exactly like them, maybe eventually he crawls back to the Hazbin Hotel, humiliated, to see if they could help them. the HH staff have to be confronted with their morality while also having another lead on how people get admitted to Heaven/Hell.
For your Angel Dust redesign I like everything about it except for getting rid of his pink spots under his eyes because fun fact those are his other spider eyes
@@overthemoon34is that the only time?? i wish they’d opened up more, i feel like it would’ve made sense in the final battle or something because it sounds like the only open when he’s angry/emotional
35:02 an other point on that is that some of the characters dress too similar, even though they shouldn’t For example Alastair is said to love his era (1930 but might of changed) and doesn’t like to change with the times and Vox is said to keep with the times so why are they wearing the same suit However the statement about vox and Alastair might not be true anymore but I don’t see vox dressing similar to Alastair.
This is such a pet peeve of mine! If they’re going to have them bring from different eras then they should use the design elements from those eras! Alistor looks like he’s from 2010 instead of 1930
29:54 Like simplfying could have saved a lot of budget. Husker doesnt needs all those unnecessary details, also he has four eyebrows? What!?? As someone who has OCs and loves drawing them, I never overcomplicate their designs since I need to draw them over and over again. (especially when Im drawing comics and animation)
9:10 THIS. A pilot is supposed to introduce an audience to the main idea and plot of the show. A ROUGH DRAFT. (ex. KND's pilot. The Modifyers' pilot, Invader Zim, and so much more). But Viv is just either declaring said pilot non-canon, or expect you to watch the pilot in the very first episode
All she had to do was save the angels for season two. (And probably get rid of Mimzy, Carmilla and Zetial.) Then she would have had time for the main characters and their story of redemption.
I understand that, but at the time the series was written there was a lot of uncertainty surrounding the very existence of a second season - the end result of that uncertainty was the writers putting everything in at a breakneck pace to adhere to their vision. Was this the right decision? I don’t think so. But I understand why they did it.
The redemtion arc doesn't exist without the angels. They are the people who need to be convinced of the fact that its possible, so they NEED to include them for there to be any progress. Mimzy, Carmilla and Zestial being removed also doesn't add anything to the story? Why would you remove them? They don't take away any necessary time, and they actively help in building the characters of the main cast
@@zillva Nope. They could have simply changed the actions of the characters for this to work. For instance, maybe you could set it up so that Charlie is doing this whole Hotel business behind her father's back and she doesn't tell the angels about her plan either until she is sure that she has actually redeemed someone. When she's finally gotten Angeldust and Husk to turn over a new leaf she shows her father her progress and he gets her a ticket to heaven. And then somewhere during season two... BANG an angel is murdered and only THEN do we get to see the other angel's response to that. If you want time, you have to make time.
another thing I noticed with the animation is that the camera never seems to fucking settle! No wonder it took 5 years for a season, they had to redraw the background every frame! It was really noticeable in "Happy Day in Hell", when Charlie just kept spinning and running around. Great to flex your animation muscles, sucky to keep making the background move to break an animation-saving technique discovered nearly a century ago with the Fleisher Cartoons!
If the camera moves across a background, they dont have to redraw it every frame, they just have to draw a very big background image, its the camera angle changes that would necessitate more background redraws. The BIGGEST impact on their work load would be animating those overly-detailed character designs, even ATLA nailed this home on keeping it simple.
I really thought for a sec that you were going to say "I've been swearing this whole f@#$ing time" XD Song choices are hard but think its a toss up with "hell is forever", which i end up singing in my head (and possibly out loud when I'm at work >,>; ) and "more than anything" which i'll go more out of my way to listen too again ("hell greatest dad" is defiantly 3rd though, but 9 times out of 10, will skip the Mimsy bit). will say i also liked "you didn't know" but it really did feel like several songs mashed together than its own thing. going to be honest, characters designs go over my head so much, that the only thing i noticed that i was sure of was different with angel dust, was the eye switch. Honestly starting to wonder if i have character design blindness now XD. i do like the little Easter egg things like Voxs blue screen of death joke, the "obey-n-pay" joke, the goat that died (ya i cant remember which one is which either) was the sacrificial lamb in "hells greatest dad" song (im 95% sure it right one) and they got a statue of them in dragon form infront of new hotel (though that went by so fast it took several rewatches before i noticed it) and that top of new hotel is homage to serpentus. betting theres many more. But some you have to be big fan to notice, like the spider lady you pointed out in heaven is apparently Angel dusts twin sister or something (was pointed out to me by someone else, not sure its "confirmed").
I think rottmnt is a great example on how to do character designs that are detailed but not over designed When you look at the turtles they have a lot of accessories. From Leo's red and yellow markings on his face and limbs, to Donnie's goggles and gadgets, to Raph's bandages and spikes, to Mikey's markings of his plaston and skin as well as his knee pads having little faces drawn on them They have a lot going on but I think the reason why it works is not only are the details easy to animate without worrying that they missed something (I mean animation is hard but you know what I mean), but the added details they do add have a point, they show off the turtles personalities (for example look at Raph, his large stature, bandaged arms and legs, his mask looking like a doo rag, and spikes point to him being a brawler, the type of person to fight first and ask questions later, which makes it funnier when its revealed how much of a sweetheart he is) What I'm trying to say is that the biggest problem with Hazbin Hotel's character design (and Vivziepop's character design in general) is when you think about it, the little details on them are pointless. Like does Angel Dust really need those spot on his hair? Does Husk need those spots on his wings? Does Alastor's suit need to have a bunch of stripes? In my opinion no. Not only is it more work on the animators, but they don't show off the characters personalities, so why add them?
Honestly a super small nitpick I have about the animation in the show is that whenever there are characters on screen they all seem to have this very faint black outline around them (not the lineart) and it just kinda annoys me because then it kinda feels like characters aren’t really a part of the setting and more just stickers slapped onto the backgrounds, but maybe that’s just me and maybe it was intentional. (Edit: it’s a lot more noticeable in scenes like 15:46 when they’re in heaven)
YES! I noticed it too!!! I wonder if it was an attempt to help make the characters pop from the backgrounds more, since their designs and the backgrounds tend to be similar colors?
It's just clicked that the Hell and Heaven depate is so similar to The Good Place. No one has gotten into Heaven (The Good Place) for over 200 years and it follows a group of people trapped in Hell (The Bad Place) trying to redeem themselves by doing good. Heaven themselves had become so guliable in that show too. The difference is The Good Place was more thought out in its themes and was actually funny. No offense to Hazbin but the constant swearing and sex jokes just aren't funny. It's cheap humour.
I always figured not much changed about the REASON for the exterminations. It was just became a lie, and one that Charlie believed because of who she is and the fact that she doesn't talk to her parents much.
I remember people were wondering if the story in the beginning was just a fairy tale version of events and the actual truth would be more complicated, but no. That's pretty much exactly how it happened and it makes Charlie seem really dumb for trying to appeal to people she has no reason to believe will listen to her.
@@samiamtheman7379 Charlie is supposed to be naive though. Like, cmon, she thinks sinners can be redeemed, so why would she not think that the "oh so virtuous angels" wouldn't agree with what she thinks is the morally just thing to do?
@@samiamtheman7379it think both reasons can work. Like yes the exterminations were first started because of Hell’s overpopulation causing them to be able to potentially rival Heaven, but the reason they aren’t open to anything else is because they also enjoy it
One Note Carmela took her hair down in the fight with Vaggie only after she complained about not being used to fighting with long hair. Carmela was proving that’s no excuse. I thought it was pretty good show don’t tell story telling
As a newcomer, I watched the first episode then realised I'd have to go back and watch the pilot out of order since I had no clue how any of the characters had gotten there. I only watched the show cos I'm a big theatre nerd and I wanted to see performers I liked on screen!! But it feels like Viv added so many characters so it could be a big Broadway reference fest and fans could Leonardo DiCaprio point at the screen "I know that voice!", without any consideration for the fact that you can't have every character be important in such a short space of time. The backgrounds and animation were real pretty but idk if I'd recommend to anyone besides die-hard animation fans or theatre nerds. Also 43:17 , noting Carmilla's lack of ears - barely any of the humanoid characters have ears or noses and just why????? It got on my nerves the whole show lol. Great video as usual, loved hearing your thoughts!!
This is a funny complaint mostly due to the fact that most of the characters introduced so far aren't actually important yet. They are there so we don't need to introduce everyone when its suddenly convenient. Mimzy isn't important. There is no reason you need to do your homework on her, because she is purely there to explore Alastor as of right now. Cherri Bomb is also not important yet. Nor is Zestial, or any of the other overlords really. The Vees got some focus, because they are going to become important later on, but they still only got like 15 minutes dedicated to them, which isn't over the top. If it felt bloated, I think that's mostly because of an expectation that every introduced character has to have an impact the minute they are introduced, or else the character doesn't need to be there, when this isn't actually the case. Also, the ear thing annoyed me to, but only in retrospect, as I didn't notice while watching. Carmilla specifically always looked really off, but I couldn't place my finger on what the issue was
14:52 That's actually not true. In episode 2 or 3, the Vs talk about preventing Charlie from making a deal with Alastor, which is why they send Sir Pentious to the hotel
weird complaint but why why WHY does charlie (and alastor) say "fuck" so much? like it seems to be for shock value, but they do it so much it just seems so lazy and just wore off, yknow, *the shock*. like charlie is innocent, ray of sunshine, blah blah blah, and alastor feels too... classy to curse? so it feels like they should've had it saved for something big? or just... not? weird nitpick but it's been rotting in the back of my brain
Although I love the first cast, I think recasting was ultimately the right choice, as I’m not sure the old cast would really be able to handle the broadway like musical preformences.
Honestly, with Sir Pentious I thought they were gonna do a "plot twist" where he decides to help the Vee's anyway because he wanted that validation from them, it would also help if we established a "relationship" between Vox and Sir Pentious such as a secret friendship or actual relationship, or maybe they could be related, either way, it would hit a lot harder for Sir Pentious to cry if we spent a little more time with him before he was revealed to the cast (it was pretty obvious that Sir Pentious was the one that Vox was talking about) Sir Pentious could've been a good cinnamonroll character man 😭
@@zillva I know that, but I was just giving ideas, plus that's why I said secret. I ain't dumb. Also, I wouldn't make the any of them related to Sir Pentious at all since yeah, lastly I was tired when I made this comment
As a victim of sexual assault myself, I thought that Angel dust’s portrayal was really good! As you said it shows the ups and downs that you get when you’re stuck in this situation and the pop song shows the facade you have to put up so that no one suspects a thing- it’s tragic and when I watched it I immediately got the feeling of “shit this hits close to home” And your point with sir pentious was really accurate. I hated that joke, especially how Angel LITERALLY JUST WALKS PAST HIM WHILE HES BEING DRAGGED INTO THE ROOM. AFTER CONFRONTING HIS ABUSER. LIKE EXCUSE ME, WHAT???
Fewer than 12 episodes per season is becoming enough of a trend that I don't have much expectation that they weren't told ahead of time how many they were getting. Some of the writing issues I've noticed feel like they'd still be there even with a proper 12 episode season, which has me worried they'll continue to be problems with the next season. They wouldn't be able to take season 1 criticisms into account since they've been writing it since before season 1 came out. Even setting aside the pacing, they lampshaded major plotholes as they came up and some of the episodes raised issues that didn't line up with the resolution. A lot of stuff around Lucifer and Charlie's estranged relationship didn't get properly dealt with because they needed to focus on the meeting with heaven and got wrapped up in a way that probably won't get properly revisited. Vaggie in general seems like the story couldn't decide what to do with her. Her doubts about helping with the trust exercises goes by too fast with no room for anything other than her love for Charlie. The angel stuff was a complete waste of time that could've been avoided by just making it known to the characters. Sir Pentious would've been better if they let him be more than just a joke character. He's interesting, likeable and noticeably improves from the start. I don't have much hope for this getting fixed now that he's shuffled off where he won't be as relevant. It feels like such a waste. Personally, they could've pushed back a lot of the plot involving heaven to develop more in a later season so they'd have room to focus on developing the main cast. The Vs are interesting villains and would be able to carry the conflict until it was time to get back to the exterminations. That would likely help with a lot of the pacing problems and give all these plot threads room to breathe.
You make a lot of good points. But to call someone's art "ugly" is a bit harsh. Everyone have different taste. And it's fine that you don't like it. (It is VERY stylised). I just think it was unnecessary to the points you were making. But than again you are allowed to have your own opinions. I thought that I would just also state mine.
As a victim myself, I really appreciate the care you put with the Angeldust segment. I personally really love his character and can see a lot of myself in him, but I agree with almost everything you said; it is a shame they used sexual assault as a joke in episode 6 and I feel like Viv was really trying to do too much with it all. I feel like they didn’t have to go so far with how they showcased Valentino’s abuse because a lot of time it did feel rather tropey (actively rolled my eyes when Val hit Angel because it felt so artificial to me.) I feel like Viv should’ve either done more research on the topic or toned down just how much she was doing with the storyline.
37:37 I honestly think it looks really cool and fun, but it especially works for Alastor. We know his smile is how he keeps up the illusion that he’s always in control or unbothered by someone but having his eyes give his emotions away to the audience is a really nice feature. However in that scene where Alastor is alone it would’ve been Soooo coool to see his smile finally break. But maybe they’re saving that for another time.
My Hazbin opinions have stayed the same: interesting characters and potential hard hitting moments that are let down by pacing that's too frantic and an eagerness to focus everyone but the leads. The concept that the pilot pitched was far more interesting than what we got, imo. I think that short episode counts shows are given nowadays only hurts the final product and I do not blame Hazbin for rushing, but I do think that stuff could have been condensed, cut, or streamlined. I have seen other pieces of media with similar or shorter runtimes that are able to tell complex stories with a lot of characters. But despite all that I find Hazbin fun, it's entertaining, it's charming, a solid 6/10 for me! I do like how you brought up the character designs. I do see the "Viv can only design sticks and sparkle dogs" opinion thrown around a lot (and I agree). As someone who does take the body type diversity in my own works very seriously I find it disappointing when shows made for mass consumption can only make one single plus sized character in a cast of dozens of twigs. However, this is a problem I see in a lot of cartoons, so seeing it only makes me roll my eyes and think of how many missed opportunities there were for cool designs (I saw a redesign someone did of Vox that make him short and fat and it was 10000% better at visually showing him as a rival to Alastor than just making him a blue Alastor. Also with a main cast this big it drives me up the wall that everyone has the same hair texture. You bringing up how annoying it is that like 85% of the cast are just wearing suits spoke to me. I honestly think that suits are a lazy way to make your characters (typically male ones) look interesting. Suits are cool and everyone looks good in one, but it's such a shortcut to slap one on everyone. A character in a suit is interesting because no one else is wearing one! If everyone is the Tumblr Sexyman no one will be!! There are fancy outfits outside of suits and there are ways that suits can be styled/accessorized that help inform who a character is (unbuttoned, buttoned, how many pieces, what are their sleeves like, necktie or something else, patterns outside of pinstripes, how long is it, what kind of trim does it have, is it clean or patched up, ect ect). Hazbin doesn't do this and the differences between them are as unnoticeable as Alastor's horns. Very good review! I am also interested (and excited) in season 2, but season 1 has made a very rocky and unstable foundation.
My ranking of the songs is 15. Welcome to Heaven 14. Whatever it takes 13. Happy Day In Hell 12. Poison 11. Ready for this 10. Out for love 9. It starts with Sorry 8. Finale 7. Stayed Gone 6. Hell's Greatest Dad 5. You didn't know 4. Respectless 3. Hell is Forever 2. More than anything(plus reprise) 1. Loser, Baby
Not to comment on something rnot even 10m in on an hour long video but RWBY is maybe NOT the best example of "you dont need to watch supplemental material to understand it." They have like what, three side shows where they put all the world building cuz they can never seem to fit it into the show?
😂I LOVE this review, and I cannot agree with you more on pretty much everything you said. It's so refreshing to see an adult in the room. I hope that Vivzie doesn't completely ruin this show with her immature, insecure "battles" with her fans, and PLEASE, no new (and irrelevant) charactersin Season Two. I have tried to make this same argument on other HH critiques, but was always shouted down by the rabid cultists kids to whom the creator of this brilliant show has pandered. As another critical thinker and adult in the room (I'm 56, no kids, and have been an animation/musical theater enthusiast for four decades, and an animation history geek as well), HH is the freshest show in new studio animation, and yours, the most professional and well-covered critique I have seen. Congratulations on making such an honest and mature video. Even though we disagree on some of the "best" songs, I respect your rankings. Plus, I'm now a subscriber. ❤🎉
27:18 I think viv changed it because the good place already was doing this concept and concluded with this theme explicitly of “how to rewrite heaven rules” while her show was still in production. So possibly was trying to avoid accusations of being derivative…and kind of still doing it anyway imo.
I have mixed feelings on the topic of never expecting your audience to watch extra stuff. I can only think of using games as an example. Most people dont know how to Datamine/dig through code, but If games started putting in Easter eggs, or even some content like a lore and secret levels behind that wall I think we are at a time where that's more ok compared to the early 2000's where this stuff would be niche or undetectable. Similarly, I think some media taking a wider approach with supplementary material is more ok when things spread so fast and is easier to find. Even then, I don't think the show expects people to have all the lore. The bit's you "need" outside info to know (Like who Mimzy is) doesn't really contribute to my understanding of the show, because even if side stuff told me Keekee is magically linked to the hotel and can change it why should I bother If keekee is on screen for less than 10 seconds? A character like Cherry works without context of the pilot. She's just a stand in for Angels past antics to show he changed. but without any new scenes to establish likability she is just calling her friend lame for changing, then suddenly is a part of the team at the end. Even WITH the pilot i dont think that's enough. even the deal bit technically works. Husker and Angel are examples of a deal gone wrong, and ep1 establishes how weary Vaggie is Alastors deals. So when Alastor slips in to make a deal the payoff is technically there, but my problem is more "there wasn't enough Alastor/Charlie interaction to make this feel nice" not "If i didn't watch the Pilot I'd be confused." I think people focus on the pilot and outside knowledge a lot, but I don't think it's as big of a flaw as the other one's you mentioned.
Yeaaaahhh I WAY prefer husk’s original voice. To me he just sounded more like the washed up alcoholic hanging out near the slots in Vegas. I should know, I grew up there.
Mostly they're all skinny and wearing a suit and bowtie- that's a clear design influence from the "Tumblr sexyman" phenomenon. Edit: 40:25 She said it! Lmao.
Viv likes jack skeleton and invader zim that’s why the characters look like that also vivzie said the characters wear suits because they died a long time ago Jack = tumblr sexy man
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq Yeah I've seen Jack make the rounds on Tumblr years ago, now that you mention it. The suit explanation from Viz actually makes a lot of sense, just wish there was a bit more variety. She really likes her bowties, that's for sure.
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq The suits could also just be because the characters wearing them all have social standings which demand looking presentable, and there is really no outfit that looks more "respectable" than a suit. For Alastor, Vox and Charlie as examples, you really wouldn't want to go out to a press conference or similar in casual clothes, but you would use a suit
@@erismason3441 The bowties irk me the most. Give Sir Pentious a cravat, give Vox a regular tie (seriously, why is this guy who loves keeping up with the times wearing a bow tie? I haven't seen anyone wear a bowtie in real life ever, I feel like its not really a thing anymore) etc
I'm pretty sure that Mimzy's dramatic entrance was supposed to be a display of how self-centered she was and also a reflection of her past life, where she was a famous showgirl, and not a "Hey, you remember this girl from the concept art" because Rosie, likewise, got introduced in the "already established character" way, as well as the Vees. That's just how characters work. You don't have to see the concept art to know that this is an established character that we are just now meeting. Lucifer's "who?" response pretty much opened things up for us to know that character, while Alastor's friendly greeting of her told us that this was a friend, or at least ally, of Alastor's. Then she reveals that she knew him before they died, whereas Husk in episode 4 revealed he only knew Alastor after becoming an Overlord himself and becoming desperate to keep his casino. We also got a look at how focused Alastor is on keeping the hotel safe by how he threw aside someone he knew since before he died to do so the moment she brought danger to it. Was her entrance jarring? Yes. But that's how she is. She bursts into a place assuming everyone knows her and loves her and was waiting for her to show up and is, like Alastor, offended when someone doesn't. I think we can see why they were friends.
In the song "Hell is for ever" Charlie does sing "Hell's population is out of control" and Charlie thinks execution is about population limitation until Adam drops the bomb and reveals that execution is just entertainment for him.
just wanted to say this, the point of adam being in heaven even though he’s an asshole and constantly swears is because he’s the first creation. he’s basically an exemption!
Everybody keeps raving about how great the designs are but i dont like them for the most. It isnt the artstyle but vivz seems to dislike empty spaces on her characters. Fizz from helluva boss suffers the most, hes colors upon colors, stripes upon stripes, i get that hes a jester but its just incomprehensible visual noise when he starts moving. The red spidergirl in heaven is angel dust his sister and she used to belong in hell too. She stands out like an eyesore because she kept her original hell colors instead of putting her in pastel pinks so she would at least fit in with the rest. I really wonder what the plans for season 2 are since she smushed so many finished story beats into one season. Season 1 shouldve been getting to know the main cast+world building and the war shouldve been season 2. Whats left to tell?
"THAT SHOW FCKING BACK!" "Yeah, I thought HH would never air~" "It's been TEN YEARS!" "You still pissed that Vivzie took so long(or replace with "You still pissed she ruined/didn't finish Helluva Boss)?" "Ermm, fck you?" "Just sayin'~" "Things have been a lot different since she left fandom " "Das for sure!" "It's time to show who's REALLY in charge here 😈" "Ehehehe" *Cue the song*
I'm halfway through the video and I have to say that the reason the extermination being that hell is overpopulated isn't an idea that was ignored in the main show even though Adam finds them entertaining. It is even mentioned in Hell Is Forever at the start. I think that if Adam kept killing demons for no reason after Charlie started redeeming them, Sera would immediately tell him to stop
About the Angel Dust section: I think you are missing a piece, and that is that Angel isn't dealing with an abusive relationship. He is a slave, bound to Val by a soul contract. He isn't lured back to his abuser, because he never left. If Angel refuses, Val can probably force him. So, yeah. It feels a bit weird to call it a relationship at all, when really it's an owner and his slave.
Great review! I'm actually surprised by how much I agree with you. As a person that hadn't seen the pilot before watching the series I felt very confused and overwhelmed. One example is how death works in this show. Apparently sinners respawn when they kill each other but when angels kill them they go poof and are erased. I had no idea that was a thing until I saw a comment talking about it lol Unfortunate cause the whole show I was thinking "how does any of it matter if people in hell kill each other all the time"
Yeah the respawn concept is interesting.... Reminds me of how gems and digimon can respawn after dying too. I'd like a video comparing the species and how respawning works for each of them.
Thank you for this video! I didn't personally agree with everything you said, but I do think the video itself is well formatted, entertaining, and you were very reasonable with the points you made. I don't normally watch video essays, but I think this was a very worthwhile critique of the show, and I am excited to see more of your content.❤
It's really interesting because i never got the feeling that everything was happening too fast while watching Hazbin, but i did get it with Encanto. Also, i get the thing with keeping character designs easy, but at the same time, these type of rules in story telling and art are broken every single day, and most beloved art pieces were born from reveling against those stablished rules, so idk. i really like the tiny details in designs and I usually am less attracted to simple designs than busy designs. But that might just be personal preference. About "You didn't know", I actually thought the pace change in rhythm and rime is perfect for that song, cuz it's a heated discussion where not only are there two very opposite counterparts trying to win a fight, but also theres Emily, who is going through a very chaotic emotional event, where shes realizing that her role model is a completely different person than she thought she was, and shes finding out that everything thats been taught to her since the beginning isn't morally correct. So i think the caos in the song fits just right.
"You can't just watch the show, you have to do homework." That sounds familiar. I can't remember what other franchise does that. 🤔 It starts with M... 😅😅😅
I never actually watched Helliuva Boss, I've just seen pictures of Mammon on twitter. And with the way his face is designed I definitely thought he was supposed to look like a barn owl.
I wish if they had a cannon reason for things like everyone wearing suits. It would be explained. Like oh they were buried in that so it’s their default outfit. That is something I could get behind, but no they just all have bow tie syndrome lol
im a recovered drug addict and ive been sexually abused before and honestly i had no issue with the portrayal of angel dust, but i see how it varies from person to person. i found his portrayal to be as inoffensive as they could have made it tbh but everyone is valid in how they feel about it.
I feel like people are misunderstanding hell in hazbin. People vomit at Husk's umbrella during "Loser, Baby", people ARE EATING EACHOTHER in the background, slavery, gambling, drugs, alcohol, sexual abuse, terrorism and mafia are all over the place. (look at Husk, Nifty, Alastor, Vox, Valentino and the cannibals.) However yes, heaven does appear offly similar to hell in this show, but I ASSUME (not sure!!!) that heaven doesn't allow all the slavery, has no drugs and has no weapons except for exterminators.
Yeah, like, hell might seem okaish at some points, but for the regular sinner and new sinner, it must be awful. For those without power, it's be a slave or victim to some thing or another, and that is eternal unless the angels kill you. Heaven actually does sound way more peaceful and nice.
One thing that bothered me about the shows of helluva boss and hazbin is the world building. In helluva boss you’re seeing the life of those who are hell-born and just live in hell; in hazbin it’s about the people that get sent to hell. If the extermination of sinners was “to control population/for entertainment” what about the hell-born demons? In one the shots that shows the higher up demons in hazbin you see two goetia royals so what if a angel kills Stolas? What about the imps that live in hell are they gonna go to heaven if they die? This is information that most likely isn’t going to get answered or it’s just a black void for them
(25:39-25:40): Yeah, why does Adam get to swear like a sailor???? In front of the other angels too? Like, what? At least have him PRETEND to be more polite in front of people in heaven an make sure Charlie and Vaggie are the only ones who know how nasty he can be!
13:07 as someone who knew nothing about the character, I think mimzy’s dramatic introduction in show still works? It presents her as both ego centric and also oblivious, makes one go ‘who tf is this’ and that feels almost intentional
59:11 The clubhouse was called Consent. He came out of the room a bit flustered but fully clothed. He got a bit felt up sure (like Moxxie and the succubus) but nothing serious.
Dusts Mistakes. No pink dot on his cheeks Both pair of gloves are pink He has a skirt instead of shorts Alastor mistakes. Less dots on monachal Different inner shirt. The radio is white instead of red Different eyes Velvet: (Don't remember this outfit for her)
The best insult without swearing is Sir Pentious's "Get your aggressively average body off of me" to Angel.
That's actually probably the most offensive thing you could possibly say to Angel XD
Even Valentino says that Angel is pretty much a sack of meat with "mildly" entertaining holes.
Can't forget "Burn that like the witch who wore it" from Velvette to one of her models
@@kinmersha that was a good one
@@kinmersha even better is that i think the outfit she said that about was a reference to the one her pilot design wore, I could be wrong tho
the "hell is overpopulated bc the standards to get into heaven are too unattainable for modern day" reminded me of The Good Place lol
Yesss! I feel like Hazbin is animated the good place lol
the good place was funny
but the show kiiiinda sucked
I think “welcome to heaven” should have been Emily showing Charlie around heaven; that way we get a little bit more of them interacting and can see a bond form
Damn.
I just realized that they might make a lover's feud a thing in season 2...
Charlie even talks about a petting zoo! I wanna see cute fluffy heaven animals!!!!!!
The difference between Hell and heaven is that Hell is red and Heaven is blue 😛
Fr, at some point the question of why has to be brought up. Why try to redeem sinners if heaven isn't any better? I mean, it's not like they're being punished in hell. It's just like a place where people can do whatever they want. Literally the only reason anyone would want to get into heaven is so that they can escape exterminations. Which was a terrible motive for the show for two reasons.
1. The scale of the event is poorly defined.
The exterminations never really seem like that much of a problem, because they never target a main character. That's like if in Lord of The Rings, orcs never attacked the fellowship. It robs the threat of what is supposed to be scary, when all the characters are just safe from it.
2. It's not a problem anymore.
Adam is now dead, and the exterminations have stopped. There is no longer any real motive for anyone in hell to want to go to heaven.
I really hope the next season addresses this problem, because as the story is currently, lacking any reasonable continuation.
Beside all the bad things that the sinners do it
@@Itakepicturesofthesun Lute is incharge of exterminators
thats all
Mammon is a spider, btw. He sits on a spiderweb, he gets a bunch of insect legs when he freaks out, and he has multiple limbs.
a money spider to be precise, they sure love their puns
I thought mammon was a centipede?
I thought he was a Christmas Tree😅
i just thought he was a big jester
@@pizzastuffed_crust392 He is, he's a spider as far as his animalistic basis but he's a clown as far as his "circus theme" in the rings. Beelzebub is a hound and a honeybee but her theme in the circus vibe is that of being a beastmaster, Asmodeus is a bird and a magician, Lucifer is of course and angel but the front man of the circus. Satan will probably be a strong man, I'm guessing an acrobat for the ring of Envy, maybe one of those "large women" for Sloth.
Viv said that she REALLY likes Jack Skellington so all of her favorite characters are basically some variation of Jack Skellington and you can definitely see that.
i knew the pinstripe suit obsession had to come from somewhere 😭 jack skellington strikes again
Oh my god yeah.......
I’m not surprised
You are the first person I’ve seed who’s mentioned the weird whiplash from Vaggie’s deeper tone speaking voice, and her higher register singing voice. It was something that I notice immediately and thought it was weird how a deep voiced character pumps out high notes, but no one else was mentioning it
That’s pretty standard for most VAs. Singing and speaking are two very different forms of vocal expression.
@@Randomyoutuber-4831 I get that it’s a thing that happens with being VAs and speaking in a characters voice, but do people generally have a different register singing voice then their speaking voice?
I thought I was the only one who noticed it- I had to pause the episode and be like ??? Is this a different actor??
honestly i wish they gave stephanie beatriz direction that kept her characterization consistent. she got great range but damn she talks with her rosa voice and sings with her mirabel voice
@@scarletrain6757I agree with your point because I do think it's clearly jarring in Vaggie's circumstance, but just wanted to point out that yes this is rare, but possible. My speaking register would signify a contralto, but I generally sing in my coloratura extension. This generally happens when someone has a huge range (I have F3-F6) and grows up speaking in one range but is trained to sing in the other.
I hate to tell you this because it involves more Vivzie homework, but the spider girl in "Welcome to Heaven" is named Molly. Molly is a spider because she's Angel Dust's fraternal twin sister and you can tell she's Angel's twin when you think about her name for 3 seconds. It's not very clever and it is literally just an easter egg.
Yea she is but you don't have to know that for this season. So long as they put that info in the show when it becomes relevant then it's fine as just an easter egg for long time fans for now
@@AmyOhHenry225 And I can absolutely respect that opinion on the topic. It IS fine to have easter eggs for your more "loyal" or "long term" fans. I'm a big One Piece fan, and the movie Stampede was made to celebrate 20 years of One Piece. It's full of filler characters from the anime, references to other films, and the antagonist is basically an oc. Easter eggs are fun and can be a blink and you miss it moment, but they can be detrimental.
I will still stand by the fact that Molly contradicts what we understand about Angel and even conflicts with the show. If the angels do not know what qualifies someone to get into heaven and they literally have an example of a girl from the same mobster family up there in heaven. The whole family are spiders is because of the "web of lies" they were caught up in. You would think that this would be relevant information considering that entire episode is based around how Angel might have improved enough to be in heaven. Looking at the actions of his twin who we assume grew up in the same home is super important. What made her able to go up?
She's intended to be more in the show at some point I believe according to Viv
She isnt relevant though
@@gamehoarder3149Adam is a dick wad but he is in heaven. Youre basically making an assumption that Angels sister is a bad person or involve in the family activity
The doing "homework" to understand all these random characters that barely get introduced, reminds me a lot on how Arcane was able to take pre-existing League of Legends characters with a ton of lore STILL be able to gain fans from people who never played the game or even know it originated from a game.
personally I watched the show and didn't have to do any homework to enjoy it or understand it
Yeah but that wasn't homework, arcane even changed established lore to fit the narrative better and spent a lot more time establishing characters. Arcane didn't take time away from the plot to introduce "worthless characters" either.
I like hazbin but as a whole the 1st season felt like a massive lore dump for the 2nd.
@@pvtghost117 Omg!That show is so good that I have never seen it (I watched it via character analysis and clips) and I still remember the main plot line (a feew sides plot lines) and all the important characters!!! There is no doubt that Arcane is a master class On how to present characters and tell stories
@@pvtghost117 even better, more like a lore dump without actually explaining the lore
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I will say this about the show, they managed to deliver a great villain song that Disney hasn’t produced in YEARS since tangled. Like Hell is Forever SLAPS! “This is the thanks I get” from Wish could not even dream of being even half as good. Idk if that’s impressive on the hazbin show runners part or just pathetic on Disney’s
Both tbh
6 from column A, half a dozen from column B
If you really wanna push it, "Peaches" from the Super Mario Brothers movie was a better villain song than "This is the Thanks I Get?" Heck, Bowser in that movie was a better classic Disney villain than what we've had in years!
Common Adam W🗿🔥
Can't it be both
Just thought I’d say this, Carmilla put down her har only because Vaggie complained about fighting with long hair. She immediately untied her hair when Vaggie said this to pretty much to show Vaggie “I’m fighting with long hair too, but I can still fight. What’s your excuse?”
Oh, that makes sense, and it's a subtle way of Carmilla taunting Vaggie
The Vee’s feel like the perfect villains for a first season while Heaven and adam feel perfect for a second
The show we have now feels like the first half of s1 and the second half of s2 sandwiched together
I honestly thought maybe Vox would cut a sort of deal with the Exorcist angels so that he could get Allistor out of the picture and hold onto his status quo since Allistor openly threatened to break it. That seemed like something he would do if he gave a shit about getting rid of the guy, as well as something that would raise the stakes, but he just sat back and did nothing instead, then he and the other Vees acted like they were hot at the end despite doing nothing.
Honestly, with the 8 episodes they were given, I probably would have used Episode 6 as the finale to set up for season 2, and I would have dropped the shorter time between exterminations. Then I would have spent the season setting up some more slice of life character moments which felt like they were missing.
Subsequently, yeah, I think the Vee's would have been PERFECT season 1 antagonists. It was established early on that Al and Vox fought each other, which implies similar in power...even if lets say Vox needed the other Vee's to match Al.
agreed!!
I agree that having the Vee's be antagonists of S1 would have been fantastic for setting up the hotel and having them be right there every time they have a stumble to broadcast it to the whole ring, however I worry about giving them too much time and pushing their narratives too quickly until you realize "shoot, we kind of resolved Angel's issues with Val by the season one finale, now what do we do?". What they need is to keep the Vee's, and build up the recurring Loan Sharks as a much more up-front issue to deal with, perhaps the Hotel is on/next to their turf, so Charlie is either "encroaching" on what they see as theirs, or they see the Hotel as easy pickings now that it's full of what they consider weaklings.
@@MorningDusk7734 Wonderful wording, I didn't really get into further details, and of course I wouldn't want something like Angel's plot to be wrapped up just like that. Everything you said is the kinda brain worms that have been sitting in the back of my head since finishing season 1.
Overall point being, keeping it to the Vee's and leaving Heaven out of it until Charlie gets her meeting as a theoretical season 1 finale probably would have opened up more character moments, both for establishing as well as growth. That would give us enough to show more of Pen and Angel improving, and it would make Angel's choices and Val confrontation during the Heavenly court mean so much more.
I think your section on Angel was great, as a victim seeing a lot of ppl tell me I was wrong for disliking it even other victims yk, I feel like you're right either way is valid to feel and at the end of the day we shouldn't really be divided like this.
Jesus Christ, I’m so sorry to hear that
@@santiagogarcia1606 no it's fine people are allowed to feel how they feel I just want people to see that that goes both ways
@@myself3412 yeah
I’m also sorry (even if I didn’t take part in this mud-slinging fight).
Saying, about a VERY COMPLEX ISSUE, that somebody is wrong or somebody else is right about it only harms those who don’t deserve further hurt. Know that the people with two braincells to rub together know this. :’(
@@rubyy.7374 It should be pointed out that most of the people who criticize those who take issue with the portrayal of Angel Dust do so not for disliking it, but for doing that thing people do on the internet where they make it a moral thing where you're straight not allowed to like it or you're a victim blamer or fetishist or something. If you got shit just for saying you didn't like it, odds are (though there's always crazies) people read you saying that and inferred all I've said before from it.
(This is during the sa/ r*pe part so don’t click the timestamp if you are nervous about being triggered)
58:06 made me absolutely bawl. Thank you, it’s dumb but hearing someone say that really does mean a lot.
I’m on the side that loves Angel Dust’s portrayal, because it’s very close to how I felt and what I experienced. Those who feel like it’s fetishizing/ romanticizing/ mocking:
YOU ARE VALID IN THAT THINKING.
I don’t agree, but what you think matters. It’s just tough. It’s a tough topic, that will have varying experiences and reactions. But for me, Angel Dust is the closest to what I went through.
me too i agree 100%!
This!! I did the same as angel did after what happened to me, it was trauma response. I don't do it now, but it's not like it doesn't happen! It's not always closing yourself to any sexual activity, sometimes you expose yourself much more in order to cope!
You are valid, i hope you feel better now
hard agree, angel's experiences reflect mine a lot, and i don't think anyone is saying angel dust isn't accurate. he's VERY accurate, it's just how he's handled that's the issue, and people are allowed to say it's fetishizing even tho it's relatable.
@f87582 It's not the concept that people have a problem with. It's the fact that it's portrayed as sexy fan service. I hated that.
I think my biggest gripe with the show is that it changes from a hotel trying to redeem people in the pilot to "Heaven won't let us redeem so lets go to war!"
Because of that change, I think that's where a lot of problems stem from. You have to introduce a whole new setting and its culture (Heaven), new antagonists (Angels, specifically Adam), and the relationship between the two settings. That along with wanting to develop your already big cast of characters makes the rushed plot makes sense.
In order for the hotel to work, you absolutely need Heaven on your side. So the first step is dealing with how Heaven views the concept of redemption. The way it played out in season one works the best for the next season. Now the audience knows that redemption is possible, and Heaven knows it just can’t go down and kill whoever they want.
@@pemguim1120 My problem isn't heaven, it's how heaven is implemented. The premise of the show is to make people live in a hotel about redeeming themselves, and Heaven/Adam just goes "Nah fuck you" in the first episode. This makes it seem like the Hotel and redemption worthless, and makes Charlie look like an idiot for continuing with the idea.
If they held back on heaven saying No until at least the middle of the season or end of it, then it feels more tragic when, despite all this effort the protagonists went through, it's all for nothing. Instead of painting Charlie as an idiot pushing for something that won't ever happen, it makes her look naïve and inexperienced, or blind to potential failure.
I'd also argue you don't heavens approval. After all, they still don't have it when Sir P is redeemed. But you at least need hints as to what heaven thinks of the idea. Adam's meeting with Charlie is enough to show what heaven thinks of redemption or at the very least what the exterminators think. You can then have some other angel fly down to Hell and inform Charlie that, despite what Adam thinks, others in heaven believe in redemption, or have Charlie find an old book Lucifer kept when he was an angel/he tells her that it is possible, but he's never seen it. That's it. You don't need to even see heaven for it to have the same effect, and it keeps focus down in Hell.
@@blade1hunter100 Charlie’s goal of redeeming sinners is supposed to feel almost hopeless. The task of taking people who have committed horrible crimes and enjoy doing so and making them better themselves is a hard task. This depiction of Heaven is one that is very cynical about the morality of allowing souls to be tormented for eternity with no hope for betterment.
I don’t think it makes Charlie look stupid for still believing in her cause just because the leader of the army that enjoys killing her people doesn’t like the idea. Adam does not represent all of Heaven, but he was the only figure Charlie could meet at that time in the story. Furthermore, once we see the trial in Heaven where it is ruled that redemption of sinners is impossible, Charlie still doesn’t look stupid because Sera is clearly incorrect and misguided. We see the other angels in the courtroom argue with each other, and Emily very clearly takes Charlie’s side.
We as an audience are then validated for believing in Charlie’s mission by seeing Sir Pentious be redeemed. We now know that she was right all along and are now left to wonder what heavens response will be.
I didn’t mean to say redemption without heaven was impossible, just that it would be a much more peaceful solution than both sides going to war
@@pemguim1120you don't need heaven on your side.
Sir pentious got redeemed and was reborn as an angel, even when heaven was against the redemption of sinners.
@@tusharrathore6330 which is why I said “I don’t mean to say redemption without heaven is impossible”
Stupid minor nitpick but it's driving me bonkers watching Camilla's bangs clipping in and out of her hoop earrings
Honestly to add on to that, it drives me mad that both Camilla’s side hair are two different styles: one of them curls at the end, and the other straight down. It annoys me so much!!!
and Vaggie’s X like Camilla brings it up so is it just deadass floating there?… It would make sense to make it an eye patch or something… and how is the X even related to angels when almost every character has a damn X on them- MY GOD ITS SO FRUSTRATING LMAOOO
@@shxdeeii5439now i’m imaging a hyper realistic vaggie who just has a floating X a few inches away from her face 😭
@@shxdeeii5439 here's what I know about that thanks to homework I did prior [just a lil], if we look at the designs of the masks the exterminators have, it has an X over the eye, and while I don't know why that is, it could have been pointed out a bit more in the show, since I only knew this by being a long time fan
Oh man, that "I changed the design, can you tell what changed?" exercise is a FANTASTIC way to show which parts of design aren't sticking. I wasn't really able to catch any of the Hazbin edits except Angel's bowtie xD;;
I feel like "You Didn't Know" seems to encapsulate a lot of Hazbin Hotel in general. A lot of characters trying to have some spotlight all at once (Six!!!), and swearing in sometimes weird spots (Charlie saying "That's what the fuck I've been saying" sounds so off - like I feel it should be "that's what I've been fucking saying") ... but when it focuses on the main plot (Charlie and Emily's parts) it really hooks you.
I agree wholeheartedly with all your points on the swearing. I feel it also has the impact lessened by the fact that nearly everyone is swearing? Like yeah it's Hell - but if everyone is swearing like you said that can't be a joke anymore, now it's a dialect.
A really good review! :>
Have you watched musicals before why is everyone treating them like some traditional stuff you hear on the radio
I think Charlie’s swears work well because she didn’t swear a lot. And it works in the duet song because of the beat. Every other time does sound off tho
i didnt even notice that he only had two gloves on
thats all i noticed
unfortunately his eyes are too small to be seen from that scale but they ARE good character design
@@kelvisaisawesome The only time it worked well was in the pilot. Because it FEELS like she dropped the b word, despite the fact we should be bored of and used to people calling each other bitches. Swears work if you treat them like swears instead of filler words like pre schoolers do
@@Davidledonkayy Theyre not good, but they have great ideas. A tall spider character with multiple arms is great. A character with a tv for a head is great. A demonic character with medieval hair that looks like horns is great. It just sucks how weird the outfits are and how everything has too much stripes and spots
Viv's biggest problem is she refuses one of writing's biggest tips for bloat: Kill Your Darlings. She could have cut Mimzie and replaced her with Cherri Bomb, cut Zestial and replace him with Alastor being in the room, cut the requirement to have 2 songs per episode, have Charlie already have guessed that Vaggie was an angel and chose to keep quiet, allowing that plot point to resolve in a single 2 minute conversation rather than an episode, which could have been made more interesting by flipping who was sent to do what: have Charlie go to Carmilla for information and have Vaggie go to Cannibal Town to rally troups. What at first glance sounds like great choices forces them into each others' fortes and gives Vaggie a chance to sit down and express her devotion to Charlie.
I think Viv popped the Angel load to early, it was too high stakes for the first season on top of trying to establish characters, plus she must have gotten Alex as Adam pretty early and was super hyped about that character. She assumed that everyone already knew the characters, and she wasn't guaranteed a second season, so she decided to cram as much as possible into 8 episodes.
If she knew she had a second season, she could have taken a breath and had us actually see the character development on screen, made me actually feel something when Sir Pentious got sacrificed. Instead we had her cram everything she wanted into one sprint with a dozen songs, a couple dozen character cutouts, and a Schrodinger's Pilot where we're supposed to watch it but just let the show retcon if there's a contradiction.
I watched the interview on TH-cam
Except for the Mimzie part I fully disagree with this. 2 songs an episode is one of the best decisions they made, Zestial is fun and has great potential, I liked seeing Charlie upset that Vaggie hid this big thing for her, etc.
I think I would've enjoyed your version way less than what we got.
@@DennisH.-og2pjI don't think they dislike Zestial as a character- rather the role he filled this season could've easily been replaced by Alastor, with Zestial appearing later down the line in the show or something. After all, Alastor learns the information about Carmilla either way; having him be in the room with Carmilla when she discusses her actions would allow more time spent with his character rather than what, to the audience, is basically a random scary old overlord we just met.
*THIS!!!*
@@Kye9842 but theres obviously a closer relationship between carmila and zestial then carmila and alastor, it wouldnt have made sense for carmila to just tell alastor the info, she knows hes trouble, while she obviously respects and trusts zestial. Hopefully we get more of them in the next season
Thing that broke me about the character designs is how almost all have (a) Big shoulders (b) bow ties (c) thin as a pencil. When you start to look at say Vox, Lucifer and Alistor, it’s jaw dropping how similar they are despite all the noise etc
That’s called having a unique art style.
Literally every cartoon does something like that to distinguish itself from other series. Just look at South Park or the simpsons.
@@Randomyoutuber-4831 No, this is Viv being bad at character design. Why would you have the King of Hell, a Overlord who likes the 1930's era and refuses to adapt to modern times, and a Overlord who likes to keep with the current trends to stay popular all wear same clothing/accessories? Like where's the variety? SP and Simpsons did character variety well, and SP's art style very simple. Hell the main 4 kids in SP have more variety then the main group of Hazbin
.
@@BirdWord03 The better question is: why not? Why can't they wear similar clothing accessories? They all embody the showman archetype in different ways so their clothing styles reflect that with slight differences that set them apart. Lucifer wears white and has a more regal vibe, Alastor wears red with clear signs of wear and tear on his clothing, and Vox wears black with a more business casual vibe to it.
Meanwhile South Park literally lampshaded how similar the designs are in an episode where the boys become part of a cult: lose the hair and put them in similar outfits and apart from Cartman, they all look exactly the same.
@@Randomyoutuber-4831 The issue is mainly how Viv and her team decided to go about the designs alongside their character/personality.
Vox and Alastor can both wear shoulder pads for example, but why would Vox want to dress similarly to someone he hates? Don’t you think Hell’s citizens would notice the two dress alike despite having beef? We know Alastor isn’t going to update his wardrobe bc of his hate for everything modern, so why doesn’t Vox just wear a suit where the shoulder pads aren’t as big? Or have him wear something more cyberpunk/futuristic since he loves technology and wants to be trendy? Why is he wearing a hat when most news anchors today don’t? That’s not following the trends!
And for accessories, Vox could have cool little electronic add ons to his outfit or even his body like wires/cables, maybe parts of his body can glow. What if he has the body of a robot, maybe he can transform his limbs into weapons/tools. He could also have accessories that match with Velvette and Valentino to show his connection with them.
Vox alone is wasted potential design wise with just how much could’ve been done with him. You can’t tell me that a TV Overlord who controls all of Hell’s electricity and loves to advance with times shouldn’t have a more futuristic appearance, ESPECIALLY with his clothing
Viv didn’t want big famous names for her show. She wanted a broadway cast.
Cause keith david is SUUUUCCH an unknown name. XD be real, sport .
@@tbeast151name one thing that Joel Perez or Blake Roman have been in.
@@tbeast151 by that reply I genuinely don’t think you understand the specificity behind Viv’s decision, broadway means a very precise level of vocal skills and singing range, something the original voice actors didn’t have, nor could they just learn it overnight, it’s an extremely arduous skillset requiring years of training to acquire and even then, physically some peoples vocal cords aren’t ever going to be capable of it.
It truly seems so much criticism sent Viv’s way is based on people outside the animation industry making assumptions about an industry and the skill sets of the various jobs within it despite knowing absolute nothing about any of it, let alone having actually been employed within it. There’s things to criticise her for, like her childish Twitter spats or various craft related criticisms, like her tendency to deviate from a show’s original premise/genre partway through, lack of body shape diversity in character designs, too much reliance on characters swearing for humour, etc, but waaaay too much of the hate she gets is just so painfully uninformed.
It also seems some people are so determined to hate her from the get go, they brush off any information provided to them that disproves a disparaging assumption they have about her. Seeing as there’s still so many legitimate things to critique her for, it’s weird how zealously people will cling to the low-information, bad-faith assumptions irregardless of the additional information that disproves them.
@@tbeast151Yeah but if he couldn’t sing then she wouldn’t have chose him? Her first priority was musical talent, and added fame was just an extra bonus that wasn’t necessary.
Yeah I agree on the cast, some are big names, but most of them clearly have been chosen for their abilites. Actors like Jeremy Jordan, Christian Borle and Alex Brightman are big names but only among the musical community, which Vivziepop is a part of
On the subject of swearing in comedy. Swearing can be funny, but it should be the icing on the cake that is the joke. The punchline shouldn't rely on just swearing.
Here's an example off the top of my head: Mad Max's introduction scene in The Wolf of Wall Street. In that scene, Max Belfort starts cursing up a storm because he's getting a phone call. The joke isn't that he's swearing up and down. The joke is that he's swearing up and down over something as miniscule as a telephone interrupting his television program.
Not to mention the fact that there's more to it than that. When he answers the call, he flips a switch and speaks in a calm tone (with a British accent). But when he hangs up, he flips the switch again and goes back to being Mad Max.
That is hysterical and always gets me to laugh no matter how many times I see it because of the sheer absurdity of it, not just because an old man is cursing.
Asymmetrical comedy seems to be the most effective, at least as I see it. The example off the top of my head would be that one Half Life video where a scientist says "Ah, it's good to see you-- Gordon you _lousy motherfucker_. Get your dork ass down to the test chamber or else I'll shove the sample up your ass!"
Hearing a character who's almost exclusively seen to be cowardly, running and screaming from any conflict, suddenly being so hostile is just funny as hell.
"Constrast Comedy" seems to be the most effective, at least as I see it. The example off the top of my head would be that one Half Life video where a scientist - who are almost exclusively seen to be cowardly, running and screaming from any conflict - swears at and threatens Gordon for being a nuisance.
Curse words also lose their punch the more they're used, so after a point when they're used so much they just become filler words that bloat the dialogue.
@@bananasinfrench I actually re-watched an episode of South Park recently that hit this right on the head, "It hits the fan".
@@Jeikobu Yeah you get it! One of my favorite examples of this rule being used to advantage is Bojack Horseman. From ehat I understand, they reserve only one "fuck" per season, so when it gets dropped you FEEL that impact. And because of this, it's often reserved for devestating moments in the narrative
There’s so many things I could add but Alastor:
I was surprised when I heard him swear and immediately disappointed when he did the second time, why? It’s incredibly out of character, he’s the _one_ person who wouldn’t say something vulgar because of his 1920s style and decorum which is very obvious…in the pilot. They wasted a chance to make both his jokes and insults stand out by making them old-fashioned, maybe the joke in itself could’ve been that he talks about obsolete technology and no one gets it, like
Vaggie: “I need a camera”
Alastor: *poof*
Vaggie: “a…video-camera?”
Alastor: “you seem disappointed I can’t see how could you be, the _daguerreotype_ was the greatest invention of the 1850s, truly a revolutionary tool that needs no upgrades! I’ll get you some mercury vapor-“
The thing with alastor is just half true people in the 1930s tend to swear when they get really annoyed so its not really surprising that he swears. "Fuck you" already excisted in the 1890s.
But yeah when he said "i gonna end your fucking life" was really out of character for him to say and makes him seem like that he tries to be cool.
@SomebodyWhoExists23 Yeah, why are people pretending no one swore in the 1930s??? They did do it. It just wasn't socially acceptable!
@@obehiikhigbonoaremen1241 i don’t doubt people yelled ‘fuck’ in the 1930s (though they surely didn’t swear as casually as we do now), what bugged me about Alastor’s swearing is that it felt out of character for him because he is consistently portrayed as some kind of well-spoken gentleman, that cares about style and social status that kind of stuff
Same, I get so annoyed at people who defend it. Even if people swore a lot, that was one thing that made Alastor stand out so much more in hell despite being a serial killer overlord. He had standarts. He hates vulgar language, enjoys cooking with passion and in the human world, nobody would have suspected him as a sadistic serial killer cuz he was always so well put together and mannared. Very few of his sly scemes did reaveal themselfs in the pilot. He is supposed to be mysterious. Now he is just the same edgelord anybody in hell is.
Alastor was allowed one curse word as a "woah, he must be really affected to act ooc like that". The second swear was just bad since the first already robbed it of meaning.
I do have something to say about the extermination "change". To me, it isn't that big of change? It's like they added depth to it more than anything. Before it was "Hell is overpopulated so let's kill them", now it's "Because Hell is overpopulated, we are afraid they might rise up, so let's kill them", the thing really didn't change that much. Heck, Charlie even presents the problem to Adam as overpopulation in Ep 1, so it STILL IS overpopulation, it just now has the added detail that they're afraid of conflict because of said overpopulation and growth in power, which makes sense to be fair. I don't think this "change" needs that much thought put into it honestly.
I think it doesn't help because from what was mostly established, the culling had a genuine reason making angels not looks directly as bad giving that sorta grace where Adam fails. If angels just like killing for killing thus that being the reason for pushing up the date it puts them in that box of 'angels aren't any better so why treat them as such'. More so, was there any threat of an uprising, I would have understood them wanting to do so if that was a genuine motivation but from what we knew sinner's were constantly preoccupied with drugs, violence, and other things hell had to offer-- making overpopulation still a result of what they established in the pilot and thus why angel's were motivated to do this task. I don't think by any means why it a big change but I think it made a difference in that distance of heaven/hell without really fleshing it out as a whole which did damage a lot of worldbuilding of heaven/angels.
@@Unhappytimeaper Purely pased on the information we have in the series proper I got this understanding, without even trying to analyze it deeply whatsoever:
- The overpopulation is a front, constructed in order to hide the fact that they are actually just terrified of an uprising being feasible if they get the numbers required to charge heaven.
- They are scared of an uprising, specifically because there was an attempt previously. Hence why Sera sees it as "necessary".
- Angels aren't supposed to be "better" or "more graceful" than the sinners. The show is specifically centered around the fact that God isn't necessarily a good person, and that there is no specific criteria for becoming an angel, and its all "rules for thee, but not for me" sort of deal. Literally just listen to "Hell is forever" and "You didn't know" and this should be extremely obvious.
- Its not that the angels enjoy killing sinners. That is specifically Adam, who is an ass. We have no reason to believe all the exterminators enjoy killing them, which is exemplified by Vaggie not wanting to kill a child, and is thrown aside because of it. They are likely terrorized into committing these murders, or think its not actually morally wrong to kill the sinners.
@@zillva well so basically your just describe other others mentioned in the video, why try to establish rules in the pilot, expect people to understand the pilot, and then change elements for a story because you change your mind while still expecting people to remember the pilot. Like I said, even if there was to be an uprising again the whole logic was that sinner’s are too distracted to do so in the first place (which honestly is a more interesting route of angels supplying hell with things to keep sinners distracted by that’s my two cents). Besides if overpopulation is just a front I call lazy thematic into play when wanting to discusses how the show wants to tap into the topic of why many aren’t getting into heaven/heaven qualifications that are being set up to be explored, let alone cut off part of the motivations for Charlie already established of even if over population is a problem you have to start with one.
Elements of graceful is meant to be that those in heaven clearly have an over inflated self perception, something already established in other works. If you want interesting character over play it, make them consider themselves better and refined and ‘graceful’ like how cherubs presented themselves while still keeping immoral snobbiness- make it even stronger with angels to the point it’s actually funny. Their seemingly positive traits ultimately flaws because they see themself better than sinners, even in the show parts of this are played up such as Charlie cussing and them getting upset or how exactly seem with the cherub’s cussing being seen as a big deal. Motivating characters to be different and have characterization that is still polar of those in hell while still not making them good people is what would have driven them into likely being better written character which is personally something I think this change in concept forced them into a box without fleshing out these establishments of heaven- just like how Adam sucking but others disagreeing doesn’t help build a premise. By the original logic it makes the exterminators feel as if they have to answer to a role they are costed to do, even under someone like Adam who clearly enjoys it while I find pushing it up cuts the weight for all other exterminators.
Like I said I don’t think it’s the biggest change but I think it highlights at best Viv wanted to rewrite the premise of why the hotel is in place but ignores that heaven was not fleshed out enough to explain these changes in the state that it’s in. The video said it best, what makes heaven different and interesting to hell because this new version doesn’t supply much, and honestly I can think of very easy ways to not have to change it while still getting us directly to the season’s plot line without trying to alter established concepts in a show where you expect audiences to do fan homework.
@@Unhappytimeaper "why try to establish rules in the pilot, expect people to understand the pilot, and then change elements for a story because you change your mind while still expecting people to remember the pilot."
This isn't what happened. That's why. We learnt that the extermination was happening because of overpopulation in the pilot, because that's what the characters think the reason is. And that IS consistent with the rest of the series. There is no objective narrator, so unless a character tells us this, we would never know about it in the first place.
Not to mention that Charlie knowing this would ultimately make her goal impossible, as she would then know that redeeming them wouldn't help whatsoever for everyone else going down there.
"even if there was to be an uprising again the whole logic was that sinner’s are too distracted to do so in the first place"
What are you basing this on? The reason there hasn't been an uprising in the last 10,000 years is because none of the sinners even know they *can* hurt the angels to begin with. There wasn't any "distractions". They thought it was hopeless. You can even see this in how NO ONE has fought back during an extermination, and would rather just run.
Its also why a dead angel is such a huge deal, because it instantly makes the possibility of a new uprising so much more probable.
"the topic of why many aren’t getting into heaven/heaven qualifications"
Again, this is explained very well in the series so far. Heaven DOESN'T have a set of rules. Its all arbitrary, because there isn't "good" or "bad" in these scenarios. Adam is designed purely to display this fact. God chooses the ones he wants to choose, and its an extremely biased selection. Two people could lead the exact same life, and they could still be placed differently. Heaven DOES NOT have rules, or if they do, said rules are not held to any form of standard.
"Their seemingly positive traits ultimately flaws because they see themself better than sinners"
The exterminators, or at least Lute and Adam specifically, are directly shown to think sinners are lesser than the angels, so I don't really understand this complaint either. They think they are so much better, that its straight up racism.
Sera also thinks heaven is more worthy of living that hell, hence why she's willing to hold the exterminations to begin with.
Your entire comment is based on the fact that the reasoning for the extermination was changed after the pilot, when genuinely nothing points towards that being the case. There are zero reason for us to learn about the front in the pilot, unless they were to introduce Adam in the pilot, which they didn't. There was no way to tell us without introducing an exterminator to directly tell us this was the case
@@Unhappytimeaper it is not necessary to watch the pilot to understand the show. I watched the show without having watched the pilot and didn't even know there was a pilot and had not problem with it.
I won't argue with the characters being overdesigned 90% of the time. However, something that I really enjoy is how overdesigned almost all of the background characters are. You could plug out like 4 random background hell denizens and probably use them as the cast for its own TV show.
Viv's writing style always reminded me of Rebecca Sugar and I couldn't understand why, but I finally get it . she's an artist not a writer so the story goes off on weird tangents, character arcs don't make sense, important stuff comes out of nowhere without setup,
But an artist will say "wouldn't it be cool if I did this?"
Someone who does both art and writing ✍ does not mix, more than not.
As an artist who writes as a side hobby,oh it's definitely hard for the two to not mix
You have all these interesting ideas but no clue how to get to those points in the story
There are similarities, though I do think Rebecca Sugar handled the musical aspects of her show better because she didn't have two every episode, many not even having a single one, whereas the 2-song per episode quota is kind of a detriment at times in HH. I honestly rank the songs in Episode 3 much lower than most people do because "Respectless," while catchy, isn't anything that couldn't have done by the characters talking and they're just in a meeting room without any interesting visuals, and the second song has some interesting visuals on Vaggie's side, but Carmilla only gets close-ups on her face and she doesn't really deserve a big, emotional song when we've known her maybe 5 minutes max.
@@samiamtheman7379Hazbin Hotel is literally a musical, the music carries the plot.
@@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482 I get that, but i do wonder if that decision might of hurt the series a bit more then help it. It takes a lot of time and effort to pull off a musical number, espically in animation. So two per episide might of been a resource drain. Of course, the writing suffers as well since the episodes have to be written around the musical episodes. That means the plots and character moments have a bit less time to breath.
I do wonder if it would of been better to have one big musicsl number per episide and have smaller numbers to make up for the missing musical number
24:55 she is a spider bcause she is angel dust sister Molly .
To understand this u need to watch her old art ( this is bad cause its homework just like u said )
They are spiders because Angela family was in mafia so they had a Web of crime angel brother and father are also spiders
@@bartoszraczkowski3984but they were humans ? Why are they spiders when they went to heaven
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qqare you RTRD?
I disagree, because Molly isn't currently relevant, and there's no reason to believe we won't get an explanation when it does become relevant.
Not only that, but Viv herself says that you shouldn't apply old information to the show because she's made plenty of changes, so she doesn't WANT you to do any homework, that's not homework.
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qqyes they were humans born into the mafia. Mafia families are often refered to as spider webs, thats why Angel and molly are spiders
Your section on Angel Dust is probably the most thoughtful and well-spoken section I've seen. I really appreciate it. The rest of your video is also fantastic, honestly really like the way you broke things down about the show, but I have to give a highlight to your section on Angel and the way it handles the topics of SA.
Valentino reminds me of my pet moth a trosia NIGROPUNCTIGERA moth
Sir pentious said he wants to have sex with every one
The best way I can describe HH and Helluva Boss to me is like if a new Batman show pilot comes out and its premise involves the Joker and Batman working together. Then when the full show finally airs episode one ends with all the villains in jail, including the Joker. The rest of the series involves Bruce doing his company taxes. Both HH and HB have a great premise that's immediately kicked to the side because Vivz has story ADHD to the extreme.
I’m not the only one describing her writing as ADHD? Cool.
As someone who studied writing and worked as an editor for various projects of my peers in college a few years back I have so many opinions on this show that all fall back on the reality that this is an oc artist who blew up without any seemingly fundamentals on storytelling/character arcs. I say all of this as someone who really liked the pilot and looked forward to the show for a few years, I even at one point liked Helluva but with similar issues it's really hard for me to like Hazbin and not just the individual concepts. Because the sad thing is I don't think Viv has bad ideas or even bad character. Nevertheless, Viv acts and treats her worlds/characters as some tumblr oc blog where concepts and characters are same level of importance or even jokes are left to be within the social circles of those who were there [Vaggie's name for example but even the swearing]-- all backed up by the fact these shows expect audiences to be in the lore loop from outside media. If Viv wants to continue in this field, there needs to be a change in listening to feedback other than saying 'well it's my humour, well it's my story, well it's--" because it's unsustainable. This season sucked because for all the thing I did like it took three steps back in trying to be so much. With a confirmed season two already it really sucks they needed to get all these characters in and all these plots while fully changing the pilot's idea which got people interested. I didn't personally really care to come in to see 'let's go to war with heaven!' I wanted to see characters in hell having to improve through the hotel and hell being itself. It feels like partly because it took so long to get this deal Viv sorta moved on concept wise from what Hazbin was meant to be and jumped the ship to wanting to fit as many characters in as possible because of Viv overly caring about characters as stand alone rather than moving parts. Fitting a season purely about redemptions and it's themes while understanding hell/how sinners get there would have been such a great concept but no, we need all these other characters and threats because Viv likes ocs.
All of this is to say, in blunt terms. Viv's works are the wattpad turned movie versions of animation.
Edit; also in personal opinion it feels like they burned through so much of the interesting plot points in a rush the season while you can point out where season 2 might go honestly do I even really care? so much of it being rushed makes me feel like what even is the point? Keep the Lucifer/Charlie make up moment til season 2 as something genuine to look forward to, don't rush to kill your character to get them into heaven to say it can be done, give the V's genuine space so now there wasn't five villains trying to push into the spotlight--
Honestly the argument some people have about the pacing that it's Amazon's fault for giving them only 8 episodes... No. It's not all Amazon's fault. It's also VIV'S fault as well. She did not adapt to her new situation and instead of cutting off unnecessary plot lines and ideas instead she shoved EVERYTHING into this season without any care for proper storytelling and what we are left with are ideas of what her ideas could be where conflicts are started in the same episode they are finished and the story doesn't move until a song is done. That is a BIG issue. For a good series that managed to make the most out of it's limited time look at Over The Garden Wall. A short series of 10 11 MINUTE episodes that managed to tell a cohesive, well paced great story with great characters and great music. It managed to accomplish more with less than what HH did in it's season 1. And I think that is why Episode 7 is my favorite. It reminded me the most of OTGW. Now I know OTGW was meant to be a one story for one season, but if Viv did not know that she will get a second season then she should have treated it like OTGW creators did.
To me they should have cut MOST of the plot lines and leave maybe only Angel Redemption where you can focus on it. Let this one idea be focused on and be well developed. Let it be the overarching goal of the season. Redeeming your first sinner and make it feel impactful so even if you do not have a season 2 you still have one cohesive story with beginning, middle and end that can end on an impactful and hopeful note as you explore what it means to redeem someone and feel the weight of redemption when it finally happens. You can explore in depth the most important element of the story, the thing that this story is build upon and what the titular Hotel is all about. Redemption. Through that you can delve into Angel's character, show his flaws and issues that he has to overcome, sins he committed in life he has to atone for and get over. Delve into this idea and explore it as much as you can and when redemption happens you know how much it takes to redeem someone and what it means. And then if you DO get Season 2 you can show this happen a lot faster with more sinners and that would lead to sense of progression around which you can write more drama. Maybe with Charlie who may be getting more and more conflicted as she sees people she grows to care about go away.
Also this allows you to take more time with character interactions. Make them more varied. Maybe through trying to get this one person redeemed you can have everyone contribute in their own way where you can either learn more about them, Angel or both and around that can be made unique interactions between ALL of the characters and it lets you explore more of the hotel which helps you care about it. And it also can lead you to introduce more characters, but those would be all centered around this story and one goal, making it make sense and be cohesive when they show up. It would immensely help with character interactions which are LAUGHABLY sparse as characters barely interact with one another besides the ship pairs like Vaggie and Charlie or Husk and Angel where neither of those even have much of a chemistry at all and require the audience to already be invested in those. Which makes the entire cast feel very shallow. Not to mention that we barely spend any time at the hotel and we see barely any location inside it besides the main hall so when it finally is broken we feel nothing as we barely got to know that location. And it's fixed in ONE song. That's not how you do it. Think about it. All of those emotional beats. First redeemed sinner. Death of Pentious. Death of Dazzle. Destruction of the Hotel. Appearance of Heaven. All of it feels WEAK as none of those ideas were given proper time and so they are barely noticeable. And that was the ONLY chance Viv had at doing those. And she wasted them on this rushed season.
And let me tell you. If I had a choice between putting all of my ideas into one story and almost all of them being underdeveloped and bad in execution or putting fewer ones and letting them be developed into something great then I choose the latter. People may not see all of my ideas, but those they will, they will remember and looked back at fondly. Something I DO NOT think will happen with this.
Not to mention how shallow morality is in this show. It is clear who is bad, who is good and the only outlier is Sera. Honestly. It is sad to see because there is SO MUCH potential for characters to be nuanced in this setting. Where you have to question if you can root for anyone and it is up to you to decide what to think of every character But Viv makes those characters so shallow and there is barely any nuance to anything which is disappointing. Especially with that redemption is PERFECT to explore very vile characters that you get to know more about and see what it may take for them to be better and maybe get invested in their struggle while still seeing a monster they were and it is up to YOU to decide whether or not they deserve forgiveness. Because tell me. What are Pentious and Angel even getting redeemed for? Pentious is not even evil in any way. He just pretends and Angel has what? Drug addiction? Being abused? THAT is what he has to get redeemed for? Because again. Entire cast is either full of fully good or fully evil characters where there is no room for nuance or interpretation. And villains for the most part feel like rehashes. Adam and Vees (especially Val) are just repeats of the same villains we already saw in HB. Crim, Stella, Mammon, Adam, Val. All of them are THE SAME and the only thing to distinguish them for is what character they abuse, but other than that they are all the same joke/"serious" villains that are about as threatening as Team Rocket. And all of them are either abusive dad or partner. 2 things Viv seemingly can only write about. Broaden your horizons. And Lucifer is just sad, depressed dad again who tries hard. LUCIFER! To call it a disappointment would be an understatement.
Fhew... That was a long rant. Now it is not a terrible show, I do like some of the songs, animation is okay, voice acting can be good and I hope it gets better, but given how Viv reacts to Criticism and that Season 2 is already voiced... Yeah. I do not have high hopes. And I feel like with how much they did already they have like 2 more seasons at most worth of story to do.
To be fair Sir Pentious definitely was evil,he probably just didn’t have a opportunity for redemption till he was accepted into the hotel,also Angel definitely wasn’t exactly good either,he was clearly in the mob,still shows signs of criminal behavior
@@CrocsFortress The thing is though is that Pentious being evil never comes into play with him being there. We never even hear characters talk about their past which I think maybe Loser, Baby would be a good way to do it. Maybe Husk discussing how he also had terrible things in life that lead him to Hell. But with Pentious it means nothing, it doesn't matter and the only sort of flaws show focused on with Angel was what I said. He is addicted and is abused. That's it. No questioning of what he was in life and already show treats him like a changed man even though we never saw what he was changed FROM. We never even see him changing. We just see him before and after his change. And the middle part is the MOST important.
And also... I am VERY scared they will do the same thing with Angel as they did with Moxxie. With his father just being against him because of his interest in man which I think will be a big shame. I had in mind for a while this dialogue for instance between Angel and his dad when Angel tries to call him out on him hating him for what gender he was into:
"I hated you because...? Really? THIS is what you think I care about?! This is what you think is the worst quality of yours? THAT!? Anthony. May I remind you that after your brother was in a shoot out and almost died you NEVER showed up to check on him! You were busy, happily doing some performance in a club and when I tried to tell you about it you laughed! There was one day I saw you shaking on the floor, you overdosed. I was dragging your convulsing body to a hospital to save you. I was afraid to my core that you were close to ending up in this place, but you were saved... and what did I saw few days later? You doing drugs again! You left our house to become a dancer, humiliating your family and yourself and exposing yourself to danger despite what everyone said. You dismissed all of that. You told us to screw off from your life... And that's what I did. I do not hate you because you are g*y, h*mos*xual HOWEVER THE F*CK IT'S CALLED. I despise you now, because you are and always were a disrespectful, uncaring little sh*t caring more for your own pleasure than anything else. But never in my life or unlife would I despise you more than I ever loved you. But you did your damn best to make that happen."
I think something like this would add A LOT of depth to Angel. Make it more complicated than just his dad hating him fully for what he was into. Make Angel feel like a being that NEEDS redemption. Atonement. Self reflection and forgiveness before he can become better and go to Heaven. But sadly I have big suspicion it will be the Crim situation. Without any nuance.
@@AzraelSoulHunterSir Pentious still had his issues,like his evil behaviors were still present like desire for revenge against Cherri Bomb,his time at the bar and bonding with his buds help him realize he doesn’t need to be a cartoon villain.Angel also is not fully redeemed,he’s still kind of sleezy and still has his murderous tendencies,he still has some baggage that he will possibly still haft to redeem for.Also having a abusive father wouldn’t really add more depth cause it’s repetitive at this point with Vivs works and Val already provided an interesting alternative in my opinion.
@@CrocsFortress As for murderous tendencies. Did you notice they switched Vaggie and Angels attitudes about turf wars? Anyway...
Val is not really interesting. He is basically the same villain Viv has been doing for ages. I said it in OG comment. Him, Mammon, Crim, they are all so samey. And archetype they are is not that interesting in the first place. And I did not say Angel needs abusive dad. I said I am scared he will. When I would prefer for Angel to be far more flawed so his journey has more meaning. And in terms of his development we are still missing major chunks. Like him maybe struggle with not taking drugs or trying not to harass Husk. Instead we just jump to him already being at the end of that.
And we barely saw aby of Pentious's evil and most of the time he was barely a Sinner as every bit of villains he did was so sparse. Most present in the damn pilot. If not all of it.
@@AzraelSoulHunterJust different perspectives then.Im fine with differing viewpoints
So basically viv has the same issues as rooster teeth?
The show is basically high budget rwby.
1)Intresting premise.
2)Poor world building.
3)Bunch of shipping fodder.
4)A gimmick to hook the fans( fights/musical).
5) both started as indie animation.
same issues, but at least RWBY isn't run by theater nerds who want you to hear the smallest side character and go "oh my gosh, they got Darren Chris to voice St. Peter for one whole song???"
@@tusharrathore6330the world is good, what you talking about?
Who? What?
@@MorningDusk7734Blake Roman isn’t famous
No but fr, the way they expect us to be Vivzie stans to enjoy the show. I asked something once on one of her videos and got dogpiled with “haven’t you watched all her streams and interviews?? 🤓”
It’s like she’s striving to have us tune in on everything up to her pooping schedule.
I’m with you there. Vivzie stans are so annoying when you bring up any form of criticism, and this is coming from someone who loves this show.
they’re always like “well if you don’t like X then don’t watch the show 🤓” like bro, just because i think alastors emo bob looks weird doesn’t mean i don’t like the general story of the show… or the songs
fun fact The living tombstone is the one that writes all of the Hazbin hotel songs that explains why the rhymes and lyrics are the way they are also I think it’s so cool that the show around hell and Dead has a band called The Living Tombstone working on it music I just think that’s a cool detail!! Ｏ(≧▽≦)Ｏ
Also I just really love Rosie
No wonder the songs are actually solid . Even off the story around them can be iffy .
Living tombstone is actually a duo, and only one of the guys worked on hazbin, but still this is true
*spits out drink*
WHO?!?!
@@DrawciaGleam02 the living tombstone
This is kinda like rwby v9 where i dropped it after an episode because i realized it wasnt my cup of tea, but i like watching people talk about it in a critical way
For me RWBY fell of I think V7
While issues were rising after V3 it still wasn't bad for me.
Then volume 7 happened and the heros no longer felt like true heros after. Almost as if they knew they are in a TV show so they could do whatever they wanted even if it doesn't align with what a hero is. And this continues to V8 where they really mess over Ironwoods character by painting him as the bad guy and in case you were still on his side they made him kill someone. Ironwood was truly doing his best given his situation and the fact they lied to him for seemingly no reason and everything else. And the main crew tried to save everyone (yes a good thing) but it feels as if they knew they were in a show and should try because the writers would let them succeed further making the characters feel less real and ironwood further "evil"
V9 while out of place feels like a breath of fresh air. Getting back to the original concept of how lots of the fairy tales are actually real. Wait..
OK my bad got carried away talking about RWBY under a video about Hazbin Hotel. Lol.
Rwby fell off since v4 I watched up until 5. Hazbin is actually pretty good, I do find it mildly insulting that you compare the two of them just because they both started off as indie shows
@user-so1yi2tm2r compared them? The only similarly they have is how I stopped watching them. When I say it's kinda like rwby I mean in the fact that i stopped watching it after an episode
"Cup of tea".................kinda like the one Ruby drank. Sorry
As a sexual abuse victim I feel very mixed on angel dust.
I'm glad the show is trying to represent a victim who deals with hypersexuality. I relate to angel alot myself. I feel like a lot of my issues are about the song poison, it kinda is because of the whiplash of seeing angel dancing around and then seeing him get abused. I know they where probably going with the dancing being what's on the surface level and the abuse being below the surface level but yea.
But this is just my opinion of course.
Edit:
Plus the fact sir pentious getting taken advantage of is treated as a joke just makes me question what made the writers want to treat angels abuse with no humor yet give pentious a scene where his abuse is just a joke in the context of it.
For the handling of angel dust I'm mixed but the shows handling of SA in general I'm leaning negative because they try to have their cake and eat it too.
I’m also a victim who struggles with hard drug addiction and i’ve always really liked angel as a character. I think poison works because it’s a montage of him working, where he has no choice but to make it look like he’s having a good time. Yeah the scene is uncomfortable but I don’t consider it exploitative or there for shock value. Also if he’s high, he’s experiencing an unstable sense of euphoria while being completely emotionally numb. They could never get it perfect and everyone is obviously entitled to feel however they want about it but i’m actually glad it was included as a plot line and they didn’t sugar coat it. I agree that the Sir Pentious joke was a bad idea. The buying everyone a drink part was funny but they just needed to do something like have him back out of the sex offer the moment he said it and not be ambiguously dragged into the room. I don’t know what exactly, it just needed reworking
It's because that's consistently I find a problem with Helluva and Hazbin as a whole; something is serious until we can use it as a joke against a character. Moxie getting 'jokingly' SA's in the succubus ep should have taught them that Pentious joke was a shit idea. It makes me constantly feel a cut that Angel's story isn't serious because they see the topic as worth being taken seriously but rather that it's just for the character overall creating a weirdly strange undertone. Something sadly a lot of of the character end up being put in because any deep moment or concept is fair game as still being a joke if they want it to be, which overall they do a few times in both shows. There is just so much Viv [and overall the team] consistently handle poorly regarding characters and serious topics that I get why it's one people get uncomfortable with them trying to handle.
The dancing is indeed his surface level attempt at faking control over the situation. Its totally fine if you don't like it, but its a really good illustration of how he tries to cope with his situation, in telling himself that he does have agency, when he really doesn't have any. Its the same as when someone tried to drug him, and he knew, but let it happen because "if he allowed it to happen, that's the same as him wanting it, right?".
Something out of control happens, and he desperately tried to act like he did want it to happen that way.
As for the Sir Pentious bit, I'm not really sure? Pentious did initiate in the first place, so its up in the air if it can even be claimed as abuse in the first place. He's not really even show to dislike the fact, so idk. It was a gag that didn't warrant further exploration, I guess?
@@zillva I'm commenting just the Sir Pentious part of your comment. He was shown disliking the fact. Being dragged while desperately trying to resist grabbing the floor is a clear indicator of dislike, and none of his friends tried to help him. They could still maintain the "sex with everyone" line and makes it end differently and they would have their joke without the sa...
One of my main criticisms of Hazbin Hotel is the pacing because of the short episode count. Remember when seasons of shows were 20+ episodes good times.
to be fair that more of the networks fault rather then the shows fault
It needed 16 episodes
Honestly yes the 8 episode sucks. But the Writers would have know about this restriction. They decided to shoot themselves further in the foot by trying to compact everything into this one season. The Heaven episode should have been expanded and the final episode. The rest of the season should have been about the actual hotel and redeeming sinners.
@@et5216i kinda agree. But we'll have to watch season 2 to know for sure. Not to bash on your idea but I think that it's a very common sense approach if Viv didn't go for that route it's probably she had something else in mind. Either that or she was blind sighter with a short episode count at the last minute of production (which sadly does happen to some projects)
I learned some basic animation for game dev, and holy shit, those character designs would give me depression to animate, or even think about animating
What I learned from my experience is simpler is easier (usually better as you can spend more effort adding animation and adding life to it than trying to draw all the little details)
And fabric is a betch to animate (In addition to attack animations).
Isnt it a plot hole that Vaggie doesnt know that heavenly weapons can harm angels?? Wouldnt they be trained and educated to make sure angelic weapons are not lost or missplaced??
My biggest complaint of the show is that it never answers the question was is good, evil, and what it takes to be redeemed or condemned. Like I'm a Christian so of course I believe what the Bible says about these topics. I was really interested to see what Hazbin had to say about everything and get basically the "secular" point of view on everything, but it never really answered them. Like Adam is just as bad as, say, Angel Dust but he went to heaven and Angel didn't and they never answer why. I was so upset.
@cora1334 It’s something that will pretty obviously be resolved/explored later
as someone who's (admittedly) never watched the show, and maybe I'm wrong here, but wouldn't it be an interesting plot point for adam to become a demon? afaik he's been a dick this whole series, to the angels and the demons because he's an angel. to be kicked out like lucifer was could have an interesting character arc for adam and have interesting ramifications on heaven's requirements. now adam has to converse with the demons and realizes he's exactly like them, maybe eventually he crawls back to the Hazbin Hotel, humiliated, to see if they could help them. the HH staff have to be confronted with their morality while also having another lead on how people get admitted to Heaven/Hell.
For your Angel Dust redesign I like everything about it except for getting rid of his pink spots under his eyes because fun fact those are his other spider eyes
Oh really? Can he change them into real pupils? That would be cool to see.
@@DrawciaGleam02they open up in episode 4 when Angel gets mad at Husk for calling him fake.
@@overthemoon34is that the only time?? i wish they’d opened up more, i feel like it would’ve made sense in the final battle or something because it sounds like the only open when he’s angry/emotional
@@koiloylo so... like every other demon and their animal features?
35:02 an other point on that is that some of the characters dress too similar, even though they shouldn’t
For example Alastair is said to love his era (1930 but might of changed) and doesn’t like to change with the times and Vox is said to keep with the times so why are they wearing the same suit
However the statement about vox and Alastair might not be true anymore but I don’t see vox dressing similar to Alastair.
This is such a pet peeve of mine! If they’re going to have them bring from different eras then they should use the design elements from those eras! Alistor looks like he’s from 2010 instead of 1930
@@marinawilson3337 I agree with you.
Fun fact Husk and Valentino are from the same era (1970)
Alastor.
Vox likely lived way after Alistor died.
@@triggerfairy4070 I know it might be 1960 but could of changed
29:54 Like simplfying could have saved a lot of budget. Husker doesnt needs all those unnecessary details, also he has four eyebrows? What!?? As someone who has OCs and loves drawing them, I never overcomplicate their designs since I need to draw them over and over again. (especially when Im drawing comics and animation)
9:10 THIS. A pilot is supposed to introduce an audience to the main idea and plot of the show. A ROUGH DRAFT. (ex. KND's pilot. The Modifyers' pilot, Invader Zim, and so much more). But Viv is just either declaring said pilot non-canon, or expect you to watch the pilot in the very first episode
All she had to do was save the angels for season two. (And probably get rid of Mimzy, Carmilla and Zetial.) Then she would have had time for the main characters and their story of redemption.
I understand that, but at the time the series was written there was a lot of uncertainty surrounding the very existence of a second season - the end result of that uncertainty was the writers putting everything in at a breakneck pace to adhere to their vision.
Was this the right decision? I don’t think so. But I understand why they did it.
The redemtion arc doesn't exist without the angels. They are the people who need to be convinced of the fact that its possible, so they NEED to include them for there to be any progress.
Mimzy, Carmilla and Zestial being removed also doesn't add anything to the story? Why would you remove them? They don't take away any necessary time, and they actively help in building the characters of the main cast
@@zillva Nope. They could have simply changed the actions of the characters for this to work.
For instance, maybe you could set it up so that Charlie is doing this whole Hotel business behind her father's back and she doesn't tell the angels about her plan either until she is sure that she has actually redeemed someone. When she's finally gotten Angeldust and Husk to turn over a new leaf she shows her father her progress and he gets her a ticket to heaven.
And then somewhere during season two... BANG an angel is murdered and only THEN do we get to see the other angel's response to that.
If you want time, you have to make time.
another thing I noticed with the animation is that the camera never seems to fucking settle! No wonder it took 5 years for a season, they had to redraw the background every frame! It was really noticeable in "Happy Day in Hell", when Charlie just kept spinning and running around. Great to flex your animation muscles, sucky to keep making the background move to break an animation-saving technique discovered nearly a century ago with the Fleisher Cartoons!
The show took 2 years it’s not 5
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qqAnd she started making characters literally 12 years ago, I split the difference.
The animation is not as good as the pilot's ironically enough.
If the camera moves across a background, they dont have to redraw it every frame, they just have to draw a very big background image, its the camera angle changes that would necessitate more background redraws. The BIGGEST impact on their work load would be animating those overly-detailed character designs, even ATLA nailed this home on keeping it simple.
I really thought for a sec that you were going to say "I've been swearing this whole f@#$ing time" XD
Song choices are hard but think its a toss up with "hell is forever", which i end up singing in my head (and possibly out loud when I'm at work >,>; ) and "more than anything" which i'll go more out of my way to listen too again ("hell greatest dad" is defiantly 3rd though, but 9 times out of 10, will skip the Mimsy bit). will say i also liked "you didn't know" but it really did feel like several songs mashed together than its own thing.
going to be honest, characters designs go over my head so much, that the only thing i noticed that i was sure of was different with angel dust, was the eye switch. Honestly starting to wonder if i have character design blindness now XD.
i do like the little Easter egg things like Voxs blue screen of death joke, the "obey-n-pay" joke, the goat that died (ya i cant remember which one is which either) was the sacrificial lamb in "hells greatest dad" song (im 95% sure it right one) and they got a statue of them in dragon form infront of new hotel (though that went by so fast it took several rewatches before i noticed it) and that top of new hotel is homage to serpentus. betting theres many more. But some you have to be big fan to notice, like the spider lady you pointed out in heaven is apparently Angel dusts twin sister or something (was pointed out to me by someone else, not sure its "confirmed").
I think rottmnt is a great example on how to do character designs that are detailed but not over designed
When you look at the turtles they have a lot of accessories. From Leo's red and yellow markings on his face and limbs, to Donnie's goggles and gadgets, to Raph's bandages and spikes, to Mikey's markings of his plaston and skin as well as his knee pads having little faces drawn on them
They have a lot going on but I think the reason why it works is not only are the details easy to animate without worrying that they missed something (I mean animation is hard but you know what I mean), but the added details they do add have a point, they show off the turtles personalities (for example look at Raph, his large stature, bandaged arms and legs, his mask looking like a doo rag, and spikes point to him being a brawler, the type of person to fight first and ask questions later, which makes it funnier when its revealed how much of a sweetheart he is)
What I'm trying to say is that the biggest problem with Hazbin Hotel's character design (and Vivziepop's character design in general) is when you think about it, the little details on them are pointless. Like does Angel Dust really need those spot on his hair? Does Husk need those spots on his wings? Does Alastor's suit need to have a bunch of stripes? In my opinion no. Not only is it more work on the animators, but they don't show off the characters personalities, so why add them?
"It didn't have direct familial love"
"I'm grateful you're my father/daughter"
lol, I meant the line "more than anything". But you're not wrong.
Honestly a super small nitpick I have about the animation in the show is that whenever there are characters on screen they all seem to have this very faint black outline around them (not the lineart) and it just kinda annoys me because then it kinda feels like characters aren’t really a part of the setting and more just stickers slapped onto the backgrounds, but maybe that’s just me and maybe it was intentional.
(Edit: it’s a lot more noticeable in scenes like 15:46 when they’re in heaven)
YES! I noticed it too!!! I wonder if it was an attempt to help make the characters pop from the backgrounds more, since their designs and the backgrounds tend to be similar colors?
Yeah! It's like they took the line art and blurred it, making a kinda halo ish black effect behind them!
It's just clicked that the Hell and Heaven depate is so similar to The Good Place. No one has gotten into Heaven (The Good Place) for over 200 years and it follows a group of people trapped in Hell (The Bad Place) trying to redeem themselves by doing good. Heaven themselves had become so guliable in that show too. The difference is The Good Place was more thought out in its themes and was actually funny. No offense to Hazbin but the constant swearing and sex jokes just aren't funny. It's cheap humour.
Husk looks like the cat in the hat.
I always figured not much changed about the REASON for the exterminations. It was just became a lie, and one that Charlie believed because of who she is and the fact that she doesn't talk to her parents much.
I remember people were wondering if the story in the beginning was just a fairy tale version of events and the actual truth would be more complicated, but no. That's pretty much exactly how it happened and it makes Charlie seem really dumb for trying to appeal to people she has no reason to believe will listen to her.
@@samiamtheman7379 Charlie is supposed to be naive though. Like, cmon, she thinks sinners can be redeemed, so why would she not think that the "oh so virtuous angels" wouldn't agree with what she thinks is the morally just thing to do?
@@samiamtheman7379it think both reasons can work. Like yes the exterminations were first started because of Hell’s overpopulation causing them to be able to potentially rival Heaven, but the reason they aren’t open to anything else is because they also enjoy it
One Note Carmela took her hair down in the fight with Vaggie only after she complained about not being used to fighting with long hair. Carmela was proving that’s no excuse. I thought it was pretty good show don’t tell story telling
As a newcomer, I watched the first episode then realised I'd have to go back and watch the pilot out of order since I had no clue how any of the characters had gotten there. I only watched the show cos I'm a big theatre nerd and I wanted to see performers I liked on screen!! But it feels like Viv added so many characters so it could be a big Broadway reference fest and fans could Leonardo DiCaprio point at the screen "I know that voice!", without any consideration for the fact that you can't have every character be important in such a short space of time. The backgrounds and animation were real pretty but idk if I'd recommend to anyone besides die-hard animation fans or theatre nerds.
Also 43:17 , noting Carmilla's lack of ears - barely any of the humanoid characters have ears or noses and just why????? It got on my nerves the whole show lol. Great video as usual, loved hearing your thoughts!!
This is a funny complaint mostly due to the fact that most of the characters introduced so far aren't actually important yet. They are there so we don't need to introduce everyone when its suddenly convenient.
Mimzy isn't important. There is no reason you need to do your homework on her, because she is purely there to explore Alastor as of right now. Cherri Bomb is also not important yet. Nor is Zestial, or any of the other overlords really. The Vees got some focus, because they are going to become important later on, but they still only got like 15 minutes dedicated to them, which isn't over the top.
If it felt bloated, I think that's mostly because of an expectation that every introduced character has to have an impact the minute they are introduced, or else the character doesn't need to be there, when this isn't actually the case.
Also, the ear thing annoyed me to, but only in retrospect, as I didn't notice while watching. Carmilla specifically always looked really off, but I couldn't place my finger on what the issue was
14:52
That's actually not true.
In episode 2 or 3, the Vs talk about preventing Charlie from making a deal with Alastor, which is why they send Sir Pentious to the hotel
weird complaint but why why WHY does charlie (and alastor) say "fuck" so much? like it seems to be for shock value, but they do it so much it just seems so lazy and just wore off, yknow, *the shock*.
like charlie is innocent, ray of sunshine, blah blah blah, and alastor feels too... classy to curse? so it feels like they should've had it saved for something big? or just... not?
weird nitpick but it's been rotting in the back of my brain
Although I love the first cast, I think recasting was ultimately the right choice, as I’m not sure the old cast would really be able to handle the broadway like musical preformences.
Honestly, with Sir Pentious I thought they were gonna do a "plot twist" where he decides to help the Vee's anyway because he wanted that validation from them, it would also help if we established a "relationship" between Vox and Sir Pentious such as a secret friendship or actual relationship, or maybe they could be related, either way, it would hit a lot harder for Sir Pentious to cry if we spent a little more time with him before he was revealed to the cast (it was pretty obvious that Sir Pentious was the one that Vox was talking about)
Sir Pentious could've been a good cinnamonroll character man 😭
I think the fandom already sees him as a cinnamonroll character. 😆
@@DrawciaGleam02 I meant a actual good one, I like him but he definitely needs more added to him lol
Sir Pentious was specifically chosen because he had zero ties to the Vees. This was literally spelled out for you??
@@zillva I know that, but I was just giving ideas, plus that's why I said secret. I ain't dumb. Also, I wouldn't make the any of them related to Sir Pentious at all since yeah, lastly I was tired when I made this comment
@@zillva I mean I literally spelt Vox as BOX-
As a victim of sexual assault myself, I thought that Angel dust’s portrayal was really good! As you said it shows the ups and downs that you get when you’re stuck in this situation and the pop song shows the facade you have to put up so that no one suspects a thing- it’s tragic and when I watched it I immediately got the feeling of “shit this hits close to home”
And your point with sir pentious was really accurate. I hated that joke, especially how Angel LITERALLY JUST WALKS PAST HIM WHILE HES BEING DRAGGED INTO THE ROOM. AFTER CONFRONTING HIS ABUSER. LIKE EXCUSE ME, WHAT???
Sir pentious said he is going to have sex with everyone
I love when i can hear the breaths between lines, especially in emotional songs feels more real.
Fewer than 12 episodes per season is becoming enough of a trend that I don't have much expectation that they weren't told ahead of time how many they were getting. Some of the writing issues I've noticed feel like they'd still be there even with a proper 12 episode season, which has me worried they'll continue to be problems with the next season. They wouldn't be able to take season 1 criticisms into account since they've been writing it since before season 1 came out.
Even setting aside the pacing, they lampshaded major plotholes as they came up and some of the episodes raised issues that didn't line up with the resolution. A lot of stuff around Lucifer and Charlie's estranged relationship didn't get properly dealt with because they needed to focus on the meeting with heaven and got wrapped up in a way that probably won't get properly revisited. Vaggie in general seems like the story couldn't decide what to do with her. Her doubts about helping with the trust exercises goes by too fast with no room for anything other than her love for Charlie. The angel stuff was a complete waste of time that could've been avoided by just making it known to the characters.
Sir Pentious would've been better if they let him be more than just a joke character. He's interesting, likeable and noticeably improves from the start. I don't have much hope for this getting fixed now that he's shuffled off where he won't be as relevant. It feels like such a waste.
Personally, they could've pushed back a lot of the plot involving heaven to develop more in a later season so they'd have room to focus on developing the main cast. The Vs are interesting villains and would be able to carry the conflict until it was time to get back to the exterminations. That would likely help with a lot of the pacing problems and give all these plot threads room to breathe.
You make a lot of good points. But to call someone's art "ugly" is a bit harsh. Everyone have different taste. And it's fine that you don't like it. (It is VERY stylised). I just think it was unnecessary to the points you were making. But than again you are allowed to have your own opinions. I thought that I would just also state mine.
I agree with some of her points, but one thing I noticed is that she can be very passive aggressive and condescending in her reviews
I mean, her channel gimmick is “The Judgmental Critter”…
Imma still use "ugly" but you partly right.
As a victim myself, I really appreciate the care you put with the Angeldust segment. I personally really love his character and can see a lot of myself in him, but I agree with almost everything you said; it is a shame they used sexual assault as a joke in episode 6 and I feel like Viv was really trying to do too much with it all. I feel like they didn’t have to go so far with how they showcased Valentino’s abuse because a lot of time it did feel rather tropey (actively rolled my eyes when Val hit Angel because it felt so artificial to me.) I feel like Viv should’ve either done more research on the topic or toned down just how much she was doing with the storyline.
Sir pentious did say he wanted to have sex with everyone
37:37 I honestly think it looks really cool and fun, but it especially works for Alastor. We know his smile is how he keeps up the illusion that he’s always in control or unbothered by someone but having his eyes give his emotions away to the audience is a really nice feature.
However in that scene where Alastor is alone it would’ve been Soooo coool to see his smile finally break. But maybe they’re saving that for another time.
My Hazbin opinions have stayed the same: interesting characters and potential hard hitting moments that are let down by pacing that's too frantic and an eagerness to focus everyone but the leads. The concept that the pilot pitched was far more interesting than what we got, imo. I think that short episode counts shows are given nowadays only hurts the final product and I do not blame Hazbin for rushing, but I do think that stuff could have been condensed, cut, or streamlined. I have seen other pieces of media with similar or shorter runtimes that are able to tell complex stories with a lot of characters. But despite all that I find Hazbin fun, it's entertaining, it's charming, a solid 6/10 for me!
I do like how you brought up the character designs. I do see the "Viv can only design sticks and sparkle dogs" opinion thrown around a lot (and I agree). As someone who does take the body type diversity in my own works very seriously I find it disappointing when shows made for mass consumption can only make one single plus sized character in a cast of dozens of twigs. However, this is a problem I see in a lot of cartoons, so seeing it only makes me roll my eyes and think of how many missed opportunities there were for cool designs (I saw a redesign someone did of Vox that make him short and fat and it was 10000% better at visually showing him as a rival to Alastor than just making him a blue Alastor. Also with a main cast this big it drives me up the wall that everyone has the same hair texture.
You bringing up how annoying it is that like 85% of the cast are just wearing suits spoke to me. I honestly think that suits are a lazy way to make your characters (typically male ones) look interesting. Suits are cool and everyone looks good in one, but it's such a shortcut to slap one on everyone. A character in a suit is interesting because no one else is wearing one! If everyone is the Tumblr Sexyman no one will be!! There are fancy outfits outside of suits and there are ways that suits can be styled/accessorized that help inform who a character is (unbuttoned, buttoned, how many pieces, what are their sleeves like, necktie or something else, patterns outside of pinstripes, how long is it, what kind of trim does it have, is it clean or patched up, ect ect). Hazbin doesn't do this and the differences between them are as unnoticeable as Alastor's horns.
Very good review! I am also interested (and excited) in season 2, but season 1 has made a very rocky and unstable foundation.
My ranking of the songs is
15. Welcome to Heaven
14. Whatever it takes
13. Happy Day In Hell
12. Poison
11. Ready for this
10. Out for love
9. It starts with Sorry
8. Finale
7. Stayed Gone
6. Hell's Greatest Dad
5. You didn't know
4. Respectless
3. Hell is Forever
2. More than anything(plus reprise)
1. Loser, Baby
Not to comment on something rnot even 10m in on an hour long video but RWBY is maybe NOT the best example of "you dont need to watch supplemental material to understand it." They have like what, three side shows where they put all the world building cuz they can never seem to fit it into the show?
😂I LOVE this review, and I cannot agree with you more on pretty much everything you said. It's so refreshing to see an adult in the room. I hope that Vivzie doesn't completely ruin this show with her immature, insecure "battles" with her fans, and PLEASE, no new (and irrelevant) charactersin Season Two. I have tried to make this same argument on other HH critiques, but was always shouted down by the rabid cultists kids to whom the creator of this brilliant show has pandered. As another critical thinker and adult in the room (I'm 56, no kids, and have been an animation/musical theater enthusiast for four decades, and an animation history geek as well), HH is the freshest show in new studio animation, and yours, the most professional and well-covered critique I have seen. Congratulations on making such an honest and mature video. Even though we disagree on some of the "best" songs, I respect your rankings. Plus, I'm now a subscriber. ❤🎉
27:18 I think viv changed it because the good place already was doing this concept and concluded with this theme explicitly of “how to rewrite heaven rules” while her show was still in production. So possibly was trying to avoid accusations of being derivative…and kind of still doing it anyway imo.
This show does feel like a love child between Bojack Horseman and TGP already
I have mixed feelings on the topic of never expecting your audience to watch extra stuff. I can only think of using games as an example. Most people dont know how to Datamine/dig through code, but If games started putting in Easter eggs, or even some content like a lore and secret levels behind that wall I think we are at a time where that's more ok compared to the early 2000's where this stuff would be niche or undetectable. Similarly, I think some media taking a wider approach with supplementary material is more ok when things spread so fast and is easier to find.
Even then, I don't think the show expects people to have all the lore. The bit's you "need" outside info to know (Like who Mimzy is) doesn't really contribute to my understanding of the show, because even if side stuff told me Keekee is magically linked to the hotel and can change it why should I bother If keekee is on screen for less than 10 seconds?
A character like Cherry works without context of the pilot. She's just a stand in for Angels past antics to show he changed. but without any new scenes to establish likability she is just calling her friend lame for changing, then suddenly is a part of the team at the end. Even WITH the pilot i dont think that's enough.
even the deal bit technically works. Husker and Angel are examples of a deal gone wrong, and ep1 establishes how weary Vaggie is Alastors deals. So when Alastor slips in to make a deal the payoff is technically there, but my problem is more "there wasn't enough Alastor/Charlie interaction to make this feel nice" not "If i didn't watch the Pilot I'd be confused."
I think people focus on the pilot and outside knowledge a lot, but I don't think it's as big of a flaw as the other one's you mentioned.
Yeaaaahhh I WAY prefer husk’s original voice. To me he just sounded more like the washed up alcoholic hanging out near the slots in Vegas. I should know, I grew up there.
Mostly they're all skinny and wearing a suit and bowtie- that's a clear design influence from the "Tumblr sexyman" phenomenon.
Edit: 40:25 She said it! Lmao.
Viv likes jack skeleton and invader zim that’s why the characters look like that also vivzie said the characters wear suits because they died a long time ago Jack = tumblr sexy man
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq Yeah I've seen Jack make the rounds on Tumblr years ago, now that you mention it. The suit explanation from Viz actually makes a lot of sense, just wish there was a bit more variety. She really likes her bowties, that's for sure.
@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq The suits could also just be because the characters wearing them all have social standings which demand looking presentable, and there is really no outfit that looks more "respectable" than a suit. For Alastor, Vox and Charlie as examples, you really wouldn't want to go out to a press conference or similar in casual clothes, but you would use a suit
@@erismason3441 The bowties irk me the most. Give Sir Pentious a cravat, give Vox a regular tie (seriously, why is this guy who loves keeping up with the times wearing a bow tie? I haven't seen anyone wear a bowtie in real life ever, I feel like its not really a thing anymore) etc
I'm pretty sure that Mimzy's dramatic entrance was supposed to be a display of how self-centered she was and also a reflection of her past life, where she was a famous showgirl, and not a "Hey, you remember this girl from the concept art" because Rosie, likewise, got introduced in the "already established character" way, as well as the Vees. That's just how characters work. You don't have to see the concept art to know that this is an established character that we are just now meeting.
Lucifer's "who?" response pretty much opened things up for us to know that character, while Alastor's friendly greeting of her told us that this was a friend, or at least ally, of Alastor's. Then she reveals that she knew him before they died, whereas Husk in episode 4 revealed he only knew Alastor after becoming an Overlord himself and becoming desperate to keep his casino. We also got a look at how focused Alastor is on keeping the hotel safe by how he threw aside someone he knew since before he died to do so the moment she brought danger to it.
Was her entrance jarring? Yes. But that's how she is. She bursts into a place assuming everyone knows her and loves her and was waiting for her to show up and is, like Alastor, offended when someone doesn't. I think we can see why they were friends.
Katie Killjoy original voice actor was Faye Mata who also voices Myne from Rising of the Shield Hero.
In the song "Hell is for ever" Charlie does sing "Hell's population is out of control" and Charlie thinks execution is about population limitation until Adam drops the bomb and reveals that execution is just entertainment for him.
Charlie literally narrates the opening of the first episode. She knows
I'm so glad that pretty much everybody agrees Loser Baby is the best song of the season
just wanted to say this, the point of adam being in heaven even though he’s an asshole and constantly swears is because he’s the first creation. he’s basically an exemption!
Can't watch this yet (at work) but excited to, I always enjoy your media critique, its always fair but firm
There's "This is a professionally made product."
And
"THIS is a professionally made product?!" Upon actually seeing the show.
nifty is voiced by THE Kimiko Glenn. she needs a song PLEASE!!
This show felt like the entire four seasons worth of plot of Avatar the Last Airbender being forced into 8 episodes.
Everybody keeps raving about how great the designs are but i dont like them for the most. It isnt the artstyle but vivz seems to dislike empty spaces on her characters. Fizz from helluva boss suffers the most, hes colors upon colors, stripes upon stripes, i get that hes a jester but its just incomprehensible visual noise when he starts moving.
The red spidergirl in heaven is angel dust his sister and she used to belong in hell too. She stands out like an eyesore because she kept her original hell colors instead of putting her in pastel pinks so she would at least fit in with the rest.
I really wonder what the plans for season 2 are since she smushed so many finished story beats into one season. Season 1 shouldve been getting to know the main cast+world building and the war shouldve been season 2.
Whats left to tell?
"THAT SHOW FCKING BACK!"
"Yeah, I thought HH would never air~"
"It's been TEN YEARS!"
"You still pissed that Vivzie took so long(or replace with "You still pissed she ruined/didn't finish Helluva Boss)?"
"Ermm, fck you?"
"Just sayin'~"
"Things have been a lot different since she left fandom "
"Das for sure!"
"It's time to show who's REALLY in charge here 😈"
"Ehehehe"
*Cue the song*
I'm halfway through the video and I have to say that the reason the extermination being that hell is overpopulated isn't an idea that was ignored in the main show even though Adam finds them entertaining. It is even mentioned in Hell Is Forever at the start. I think that if Adam kept killing demons for no reason after Charlie started redeeming them, Sera would immediately tell him to stop
The only problem with "Loser, Baby" is Blake Roman makes Angel Dust sound like Spongebob on those high notes.
About the Angel Dust section: I think you are missing a piece, and that is that Angel isn't dealing with an abusive relationship. He is a slave, bound to Val by a soul contract. He isn't lured back to his abuser, because he never left. If Angel refuses, Val can probably force him. So, yeah. It feels a bit weird to call it a relationship at all, when really it's an owner and his slave.
Great review! I'm actually surprised by how much I agree with you. As a person that hadn't seen the pilot before watching the series I felt very confused and overwhelmed. One example is how death works in this show. Apparently sinners respawn when they kill each other but when angels kill them they go poof and are erased. I had no idea that was a thing until I saw a comment talking about it lol Unfortunate cause the whole show I was thinking "how does any of it matter if people in hell kill each other all the time"
Yeah the respawn concept is interesting....
Reminds me of how gems and digimon can respawn after dying too.
I'd like a video comparing the species and how respawning works for each of them.
Thank you for this video! I didn't personally agree with everything you said, but I do think the video itself is well formatted, entertaining, and you were very reasonable with the points you made. I don't normally watch video essays, but I think this was a very worthwhile critique of the show, and I am excited to see more of your content.❤
Thank you! :D
It's really interesting because i never got the feeling that everything was happening too fast while watching Hazbin, but i did get it with Encanto. Also, i get the thing with keeping character designs easy, but at the same time, these type of rules in story telling and art are broken every single day, and most beloved art pieces were born from reveling against those stablished rules, so idk. i really like the tiny details in designs and I usually am less attracted to simple designs than busy designs. But that might just be personal preference.
About "You didn't know", I actually thought the pace change in rhythm and rime is perfect for that song, cuz it's a heated discussion where not only are there two very opposite counterparts trying to win a fight, but also theres Emily, who is going through a very chaotic emotional event, where shes realizing that her role model is a completely different person than she thought she was, and shes finding out that everything thats been taught to her since the beginning isn't morally correct. So i think the caos in the song fits just right.
"You can't just watch the show, you have to do homework."
That sounds familiar. I can't remember what other franchise does that. 🤔 It starts with M... 😅😅😅
Which one?
@@prometheus9732 Marvel?
22:22 I really don't want to sound like *_*Snorts_*_ "Errrm, actually"*_
but.. Mammon's a spider
He sits on a web
HE GROWS EIGHT LEGS 😨
I never actually watched Helliuva Boss, I've just seen pictures of Mammon on twitter. And with the way his face is designed I definitely thought he was supposed to look like a barn owl.
I wish if they had a cannon reason for things like everyone wearing suits. It would be explained. Like oh they were buried in that so it’s their default outfit. That is something I could get behind, but no they just all have bow tie syndrome lol
im a recovered drug addict and ive been sexually abused before and honestly i had no issue with the portrayal of angel dust, but i see how it varies from person to person. i found his portrayal to be as inoffensive as they could have made it tbh but everyone is valid in how they feel about it.
I feel like people are misunderstanding hell in hazbin. People vomit at Husk's umbrella during "Loser, Baby", people ARE EATING EACHOTHER in the background, slavery, gambling, drugs, alcohol, sexual abuse, terrorism and mafia are all over the place. (look at Husk, Nifty, Alastor, Vox, Valentino and the cannibals.)
However yes, heaven does appear offly similar to hell in this show, but I ASSUME (not sure!!!) that heaven doesn't allow all the slavery, has no drugs and has no weapons except for exterminators.
Yeah, like, hell might seem okaish at some points, but for the regular sinner and new sinner, it must be awful. For those without power, it's be a slave or victim to some thing or another, and that is eternal unless the angels kill you. Heaven actually does sound way more peaceful and nice.
One thing that bothered me about the shows of helluva boss and hazbin is the world building. In helluva boss you’re seeing the life of those who are hell-born and just live in hell; in hazbin it’s about the people that get sent to hell. If the extermination of sinners was “to control population/for entertainment” what about the hell-born demons? In one the shots that shows the higher up demons in hazbin you see two goetia royals so what if a angel kills Stolas? What about the imps that live in hell are they gonna go to heaven if they die? This is information that most likely isn’t going to get answered or it’s just a black void for them
(25:39-25:40): Yeah, why does Adam get to swear like a sailor???? In front of the other angels too? Like, what? At least have him PRETEND to be more polite in front of people in heaven an make sure Charlie and Vaggie are the only ones who know how nasty he can be!
1:01:56 Don Flamenco spotted
Nah but that dude's whole theme is absolute fire
Nice to see another cultured Punch Out fan :)
24:54 Not sure if someone already pointed this out! But the spider angel is actually Angel Dust’s twin sister Molly! Hence why she’s a spider too ^^
13:07 as someone who knew nothing about the character, I think mimzy’s dramatic introduction in show still works? It presents her as both ego centric and also oblivious, makes one go ‘who tf is this’ and that feels almost intentional
59:11 The clubhouse was called Consent. He came out of the room a bit flustered but fully clothed. He got a bit felt up sure (like Moxxie and the succubus) but nothing serious.
That's still not ok.
@@maximillian1109 yeah, if he got felt up against his will, its still at the least, considered assault
Dusts Mistakes.
No pink dot on his cheeks
Both pair of gloves are pink
He has a skirt instead of shorts
Alastor mistakes.
Less dots on monachal
Different inner shirt.
The radio is white instead of red
Different eyes
Velvet:
(Don't remember this outfit for her)