CIA and Nazi scientists - Partners in (War)crime - Paperclip pt. 2 - WW2 Documentary Special
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ย. 2024
- Welcome back to part 2 of our Paperclip special!
If you haven't watched part 1 yet, check it out here: • Nazi Scientist Working...
Strap in and prepare yourself to find out how Paperclip manages to navigate through the shitstorm, and how its fate becomes inexorably intertwined with the new cool Kid on the Block, the CIA. This sinister partnership soon involves former Nazi top scientists in some of America's shadiest programs.
Join us on Patreon: / timeghosthistory
Or join the TimeGhost Army directly at: timeghost.tv/s...
Check out our TimeGhost History TH-cam channel: / timeghost
Between 2 Wars: • Between 2 Wars
Follow WW2 Day by Day on Instagram: @ww2_day_by_day
Follow TimeGhost History on Instagram: @timeghosthistory
Like us on Facebook: / timeghosthistory
Hosted by: Astrid Deinhard and Anna Deinhard
Director: Astrid Deinhard
Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson
Executive Producers: Astrid Deinhard, Indy Neidell, Spartacus Olsson
Creative Producer: Marek Kamiński
Community Management: Jake McCluskey
Written by: Sebastian Brandstetter
Research by: Sebastian Brandstetter
Map animations by: Daniel Weiss
Map research by: Sietse Kenter
Edited by: Iryna Dulka
Artwork and color grading by: Mikołaj Uchman
Sound design by: Marek Kamiński
Colorizations by:
Mikołaj Uchman
Carlos Ortega Pereira, BlauColorizations, / blaucolorizations
Source literature list: bit.ly/SourcesWW2
Archive footage: Screenocean/Reuters - www.screenocea...
Image sources:
Ullstein Bilderdienst via Yad Vashem
Wellcome Library
Soundtracks from Epidemic Sound:
Highway Kings - Elliot Holmes
When a Plan Comes Together - Christoffer Moe Ditlevsen
Easy Target - Rannar Sillard
We Must Be Prepared - Brightarm Orchestra
Weak Spot - Jon Bjork
Not Safe Yet - Gunnar Johnsen
Sense of Betrayal - Experia
Trapped in a Maze - Philip Ayers
Shrouded in Conspiracy - Jon Bjork
Secret Cargo - Craft Case
Leave It All Here - Fabien Tell
Please Hear Me Out STEMS INSTRUMENTS - Philip Ayers
Split Decision - Rannar Sillard
Spellbound - Edward Karl Hanson
The Story Begins STEMS INSTRUMENTS - Hampus Naeselius
A TimeGhost chronological documentary produced by OnLion Entertainment GmbH.
If the CIA ever decides to 'declassify' its records properly, what other Nazi secrets do you think one could uncover? Let us know in the comments!
The first US Special Forces (Green Berets) included several former German, and German-allied, personnel. The most well-known was a Finnish SS volunteer, but there were more. A high school friend of mine's uncle was in a Hungarian fascist paramilitary unit in WW2, and then served in the US Army, retiring as a senior NCO. He did nothing to hide his WW2 affiliation, nor his anti-Semitism. Even Otto Skorzeny was a consultant on special operations to the US, UK, and ironically... Israel.
@@johnmc8785 "My bank account isn't antisemitic"
@@UNOMations
Hah!
Curious what foia would do
And all the fog, lies and disinformation concerning one SS General Hans Kammler will be revealed. Did I say that, good lord a flying pig with GT stripes just went by.
All this talk about Paperclip reminded me of a quote from the movie Ice Station Zebra where Patrick McGoohan (British) tells Rock Hudson (U.S.) what has happened: "The Russians put our camera made by our German scientists and your film made by your German scientists into their satellite made by their German scientists."
Von Braun wrote a book "I aimed at the stars, but hit a children's hospital in London".
How was Schrieber NOT in prison?!! Lordy, Ladies, I shudder to think that Project 63 would have even white-washed Mengele’s record and made him an American if they could have found him! YIKES!!! Great two-part episode! I really hope you two sho up in the Korean War!
I saw an interview with some of the post war prosecutors made in the 1980's. One of them commented something like "We'd have been hanging Nazis through Ike (President Eisenhower administration) if we had been serious."
We knew exactly where Mengele was and he was an asset, funded, and protected... then US research surpassed any value he brought... and then the Isrealis were getting close...
Mengele who escaped to Latin America applied for a German passport with his own name and all correct personal information in a German embassy in the 50’s.
So his whereabouts was known but nobody cared.
And he was issued that passport.
Knowing it happened is one thing. Seeing it in all its amoral, calculating details is chilling. Appreciate the research and presentation, well done as always.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department!" says Wernher von Braun" -- Tom Lehrer
We actually used that song in one of our episodes a few months back!
You can check it out here: th-cam.com/video/TUVliPq6c-8/w-d-xo.html
I still can't forget the case of Irmgard Furchner (a 96 year old German woman who was a typist at a concentration camp during WW2). She was found guilty of being complicit in the murder of thousands of people, while these people were treated like heroes and had their crimes forgiven.
“Shit storm” VERY appropriate and chuckle generator!
Thank you, Anna and Astrid, for so delightfully illuminating topics such as this. 👍❤👍❤
And thank you for watching!
This was a very well-balanced view of what happened. Some good came out of Nazi science, but we must never forget or completely forgive the horrors they were involved in. 😢
YET another great episode, crammed with information and details and likely requiring multiple views to capture it all. Well done
Thanks for the lovely comment.
Back in the day we had _Reading Rainbow_ and _Schoolhouse Rocks._ Nowadays we have the fabulous teaching duo _Astrid & Anna_ ❤❤❤
that chirp at Von Braun was top class
As an American, it still disturbs me how we let these war criminals off the hook.
You could say where was NASA before those scientist
@@rasvatissi580Being NACA, which wasn't a bad organisation either. During the 1920s and 30s they did some great bits of research into cowling design of radial engines, superchargers, most importantly turbochargers, laminar flow airfoils, et cetera.
America even had an axial flow turbojet in the works, but apparently ran into issues with engine vibrations. This jet engine is what became the J35.
Kissinger, Dick Cheney, Fauci etc. and soooo many more.
@@Wayoutthereevery member of the GOP has an identical ideology to the Nazi party... So shut the fuck up and follow your furher
You should understand that from the viewpoint of the Americans there was no problem: these war crimes had no relation to Americans. Who cares about Jews or Slavs? The problem was only when the issue was about executions of American POWs or pilots of the shot down bombers. Just compare American war against Germans and against Japanese. When you talk about the war against Japan, mutual hatred was very high. Because Japan directly attacked USA and the Japanese were the same racists as Anglo-Saxons, only they proclaimed supremacy of their own nation. "You, Whites, came from monkeys and we Japanese came from the Goddess Amaterasu". As far as war with Germans is concerned, there wasn't such attitude. Hitler considered Anglo-Saxons as Brethren of Germans, he openly admired British policy in India and American attitude toward native Indians.
A moral dilemma exists when we are faced with a choice between competing good intentions. Should we continue to wear life preservers, with their large collars designed to keep our necks out of the cold water and thus delay the onset of hypothermia, or should we refuse, recalling that these were developed without the consent of the Polish concentration camp inmates who drowned or died of hypothermia as unwilling participants in their design? Thank you for your nuanced presentation of this controversial program. And let us continue to never forget!
Those 'experiments' were so poorly conducted that they barely count as experiments.The example you give hardly 'needed' collaboration from those Nazi fuckers to be implemented.
we have to remember that it all becomes a very dirty business and nobody stays clean .
Thanks for your work covering this diffucult topic. The impact of these German expatriots in the US was very wideranging and more often than not benificial to the advancment of Science. One example who impacted my own career in earth sciences was Dr. Hans Eduard Suess (not to be confused Dr Seuss). While studing radioactive fallout from the above ground testing in the 1950's Suess's work helped develope radiocarbond dating and our understanding of climate change. Suess's work demostrated that the increace CO2 in the atmoshere was indeed from the burning of fossil fuels (dubed the "Suess Effect"). Should the US have recurted him? How culpable was he for the crimes of the Nazis? I have never learned the specifics of his awareness of, or paticipation in war crimes.
Will you have an episode on the Japanese project 731 which was a nerve gas project that the Japanese kill thousands of Korean and China in experiments. It was where most of the US’s nerve gas studies came from.
We did have an episode about unit 731 some years ago: th-cam.com/video/XhKN5XciluY/w-d-xo.html
The public opposition to the import of these scientists was considerable. Eventually in the 1950s the US congress passed a law forbidding the admission of members of the SS to the United States due to the public outcry. Significantly there was no effort to retroactively apply the law to those already in the USA for decades.
Ihr zwei bringt so tollen Wind in diese Show ich häng seit Wochen am Bildschirm fest egal ob Indy, Spartacus oder ihr eure Arbeit ist klasse das sollte man in der Schule zeigen zu englisch und Geschichte hahaha
Love ur channel guys keep up this great work hopefully with more major conflicts and spy work
Danke fürs zuschauen!
I always love being briefed on the latest axis goings-on by the Deinhard sisters!
Will Spies and Ties migrate to the Korean War channel?
All hosts here on WW2 will have occasional appearances on the Korean War Channel!
The question of whether "scientific" knowledge can, or should be used in all cases, or whether it should be buried because of its origin, is an interesting one. There is an example that I am aware of that took place in the Soviet Union. There was an accident, a nuclear one, detected by the US, in the Soviet Union. It was in one of their closed cities used for the purpose of weapons development. Not long afterward there were papers published on the effects of radiation on people. Should that knowledge not have been used? No one would willingly do such an "experiment", and although it was probably an "accident", it provided valuable knowledge.
An unholy alliance, forged in Hell.
Spies and ties forever!
Hi Astrid and Anna
Awesome episode.
Please continue more of this series.
Nice video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Will there be another episode about Operation Osoaviakhim?
Yes
I hope you'll do a followup about the USA dealing with the Japanese scientists, including those in Unit 731.
We did have an episode about unit 731 some years ago: th-cam.com/video/XhKN5XciluY/w-d-xo.html
The CIA learned it from MI6 and Special Air Services. One of those lessons was “the only rule is win.” Another was the old adage “ The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
13:45 When Dr Schreiber was sent to Argentina.
While we pretend not to notice the unusually high number of German speaking new citizens, or how they also got there. That's for Argentina to figure out.
Shh. It’s a great place to launder dirty CIA money and get back Swiss gold.
Thank you ladies for this very informative episode. Canada says hello.
Thanks for watching!
yes, nice episode, but what about Astrid's tie?
I love these episodes. you both are so great together. great script too, interesting topic
Thanks for illuminating the moral dilemma. It's hard to sit in judgment now, nearly 80 years later. What moral standard are we to apply? Does utilitarianism justify forgiveness? As you noted, is using the results of the horrific experiments finding a redemptive "silver lining" to the horror, ennobling the sacrifice of those lost to gain the knowledge? Or is it dishonoring those who suffered (and often died) in the service of gaining that knowledge?
I've been aware of this moral dilemma for many years. In the 1970s, I know a fellow who knew von Braun as "Onkel Werner," since his father had been one of the Pennemunde scientists. At the same time, I knew a Jewish fellow who had lost most of his extended family to the Nazis. The two, by the way, were friends. Do I have an answer? Can I reconcile it? No. But, as with most of life, all I can do is go on living, accepting the choices others made for reasons good or bad, and try to live my own life in a way that, I hope, at least, doesn't lead to such moral dilemmas.
As I suggested on the previous episode: it really would not have taken much imagination to figure out how to make these monsters' lives just a little less 'comfortable' while still providing real motivation for them to keep working their hardest. I would have thought the CIA was good at that sort of thing ......
I would guess that they wouldn't want to provide any incentive for the scientists to play footsies with or cooperate in any way with Soviet agents and enable the German scientists to play both sides off against the middle. I don't doubt for a second that the Soviets must have attempted to compromise some of them with honey traps, threats towards family in the US and Germany, etc., and that there are probably several still highly classified FBI files pertaining to such KGB efforts.
The weapons lab that my father worked for did some experiments on one of those Nazi "superweapons". It was the supergun, a very large cannon. The plan was to use it to launch a large number of small communications satellites.
Just as an aside, my father was slated to go to Barbados for six months to work on the project (it was best to do this near the equator). He declined. He was in the US Army in WWII in the Pacific. He grew up in Massachusetts, and always took trains or drove to get places. His first experience of planes and ships was in the war. After that he would not fly or take a ship (although we did go fishing on boats when I was a kid) after that. His first flight was in the late 1980s to attend my wedding. By then neither he nor my mother was in any shape for a long car ride to get there. He also flew out about a decade later to see his grandsons. That was it.
This film is the best reason to refuse to fight in any war. Politicians will always sell you out
Hearing Ms. Astrid say "shitstorm" always makes me laugh.
Yep! That's my contribution to the comments conversation!
I hope you also cover the members of unit 731. One of which was a doctor who became a high official for a medical corporation which still makes alcohols and hand sanitizer. I just won a hand sanitizer made by the said company in a team building (aka bowling) activity.
Thank you.
Man, I love Indy, but the Korean War Channel really needs that "je ne sais quoi" that only these two offer.
26:10 Damn, what a burn
I'm proud to be 1 of Astrid's "Darlings." 🇺🇸🤝🇫🇷
Love the outfits ladies!
The funny thing is you ladies describe a movie called ice station Zebra, Partly!!!!
Thanks
Thank you!
Will Spies and Ties have a special on the attempted Truman assassination during November 1950?
I enjoyed your presentation. Spot on.
Thanks for watching!
as for these criminals, labeled as scientists, that old saying, without reference about who, if ever said it, applies = "i know he's a SOB, but he's our SOB". the "not our" SOBs, have suites at Guantanamo, Pelican Bay, and other prime locations.
The economic gain of $10b has to be measured against what was lost by draining Germany of said scientists. The morality questions can probably never be fully answered. :(
It's a sort of sad "epilogue" to War Against Humanity (I know that war really has never ended). You finally see the Allies defeat the evils of the Axis regimes and what happens after to all the criminals of human nature? Well they get taken by the Allies to use on each other.
6:28 the same sort of nonsense was prevalent at the end of the Cold War. We were worried that Russian scientists would start working on Iranian weapon programs. So we gave Russian companies money to stay in business and now, under Putin, they are working on Iranian weapon programs.
26:38 They didn't do anything close to "the same for America."
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department," - Says Wehrner von Braun
Somebody should write a song. Sounds like a job for a mathematician.
@@williamdegnan4718 it would be elemental.
Will there be a video on the fate of German scientists taken to the USSR?
Delemas everywhere in this moral maze of a great show. Whether to forgive or forget, the USSR would have no qualms over getting anyone for themselves.
The reporter at 26:16 should work in comedy. That's hilarious. 😀
Were the soviets offering ex naxi scientists such good conditions that they would defect East???
Not a scientist but you forgot to mention Barbie. No, not the doll. Klaus Barbie. Also known as the Butcher of Lyon. And who knows how many other people like him.
Not only would that knowledge have gone to the Soviets instead but to a regime that was then under Stalin rather than Truman or Eisenhauer.
They carry the same voice with different ages 😍
Yes! I'm hoping for more years of Spies and Ties! I hope we get to MKUltra.
You will for sure be getting more spies and ties! We still have a lot to cover.
Ill say this for the Soviets, though they used German scientists too, they made them work from a prison cell.
Yeah you see that's the difference between America and the Soviet Union. We will fuck you over but only so much. If you scratch my back I scratch yours. Thats the way it's supposed to be you may not like it but that's how it goes. And I'm a Jewish ancestry and I'm not even mad about it. I get it the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Hell there's a reason why we teamed up with the Soviets in world war II. Cold war started people should have already known that was going to happen. Js
Good morning
Morning 👋
Manchurian Candidate US POW Episode?
You can't spell 'War Crime' without C I A
another triumph...
This particular episode should be named "Spies and Tie (singular)".
A missed opportunity, thanks for watching!
"if America hadn't, the Soviets would have." And that makes it okay?
Start of the “Anti-Communist International,” the “Spider Network”
👍👍👍
✌✌✌
When the West German government started to look less favorably on the United States going after scientists that were reluctant to go to the United States during the 1950’s, a great number of the best & brightest from East Germany (scientists & other college educated professionals) left East Germany for West Germany during the 1950’s until 1961. Such migrations to West Germany took place over the border between West Germany & East Germany until the border was closed in 1952; & via West Berlin until the Berlin Wall was built in 1961.
Please do a special episode on Wernher von Braun and President Kennedy's Apollo Moonshot program.
Smh
9th, 25 July 2024
Listening late
The CIA were a wild bunch
if you didn't hate the CIA before, you should now
Ladies… you do speak up. Thank you!!!!!
I can’t be outraged, it was the Cold War, the US was the only country that was able to stand in the way of the Soviets. The Soviets had the KGB and US CIA. As someone said,”there is no substitute for victory.” War has no rules, just look at WW2, you lose and you’re in a Soviet gulag. I lived through the whole Cold War and I’m glad they acted in the way they did. It is childish to think everyone will be brought to justice, most war criminals only spent a short time in prison. Just consider their transfer to US as house arrest. Very few in the West were actually executed.
Comment for algoritm : )
Thank you!
Hate to say it but it was a necessary evil. Still evil but a necessary one. Couldn't let the Soviets het their hands on them.
What did the US population think of paperclip when it first found out?
Nothing, celebrated, those germans took americans to moon. Where were NASA before germanys fall
That's what was covered in part 1, of the 2-part series on Operation Paper Clip😅
temperatures and thermometers
Jeez. I should have become a scientist
If America hadn't you'd be speaking Russian now.
My Ladies xxx
😄😄
✌✌✌
Ein weiteres Programm mit den Deinhard-Schwestern!
Danke fürs zuschauen!
Wasn't just America benefiting. Or is this just an anti-american screed.
There is literally no anti US sentiment here. It also happens to be a specific and widely requested topic, and one that is very well documented.
-TimeGhost Ambassador (The one in the US)