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The smoky progg is actually the *corrupted* larva of a Mamuta and not its natural form

im glad to see a video criticising pikmin 4 without treating the whole game like hellspawn :D I just wish they actually kept the smoky progg design as actually scary

$100 says that this game's creator is a furry. Now that I've finally gotten that out of my system, this game looks pretty whack-ass crazy and FUN! I got Wario Land and Sonic the Hedgehog vibes from this game, as well as some Crash Bandicoot/Tazmanian Devil with the raindeer's spin attack. I'll probably look into buying this game sometime.

“I just think Pikmin 2 and 3 are better” never in my life have I heard something I could agree with so much

I actually own a copy of Star Fox Ex and an SNES, but I just can’t get the game to work. Is there anything I need besides just the cartridge? Please let me know.

fun fact: smoky frog egg is actually meant to form Mamuta, but when you broke the Smoky frog egg or get closer, it will turn to unfinished form of Mamuta, it's name is smoky frog. it's kinda nice little dital 🥚 ➡️ 🐸

4:42 In the trial of the sage leaf water wraith puzzle, you’re not supposed to fight it because it wastes time. You still could fight and win, obviously, but it makes it easier to play around it, and if you’re going for a better time you need to not kill it. Also, regarding the Mamuta, this enemy was lame and annoying even in the original. It shouldn’t count as a boss bc there’s nothing boss like about it. I don’t at all mind it being treated like a normal enemy. However, I agree with the other 2 points here. While I like the Smokey prog in Pikmin 4, I can acknowledge the definite downgrade, and the puffstool is just sad now.

There should have been an enemy that makes your onion spit out mushroom pikmin for a bit.

Who ever keeps putting treasures in mamutas is a sadist Also I agree with nearly everything about the smoky progg, but I like to comment about the scream which I think is pretty scary especially since it causes the Pikmin to scatter which can lead them into walking into the progg this killing them. The final boss on it's final phase did just that and I lost almost ALL my pikmin

I know this would probably piss of the Competitive community but would it really be that hard to have like an unlocking scheme such as beating the game or whatever while also having like a cheat that just lets you unlock everything if you know to use it. That way it's there if you wanna struggle for it but it's also not a hassle if all you wanna do is go to online immediately. Also, Reptile being the first hidden character is weird and my mind rejected it when I first heard someone say it, but Goro being the first hidden character on a gameboy port feels insane.

least obvious ragebait.........

I like puff stol and the mushroom Pikmin

Overall I agree with a lot of your points, but I have to say that I'm the final Dandori challenge, destroying the waterwraith each time I think was your own downfall. You can complete the level much faster by just avoiding the wraith the entire time rather than killing it. It's more fun too. Then you aren't fighting the timer you're fighting the giant steamroller. I'd recommend trying it again with that strat

The thing that angered me the most was the Puffstool. I was so excited to have the puffstool because the puffmin and puffstool are such cool ideas! But I play the game and I already wanted a refund.

DONT TAP IF YOU DONT WANT SPOILERS Dandori issue

I want to start off by saying this is an excellent video, well argued and some of it, I do agree with. I disagree with combat being half of the gimmick of the franchise, since Pikmin, to me anyways, has always been a focus on managing your Pikmin numbers and collecting stuff, be it treasure or ship parts or fruit. Combat is still important, don’t get me wrong, I just never viewed combat in Pikmin as important as something like Kirby, where you get all these abilities with crazy movesets that you want to use to get past all the enemies. But the combat in 4 is fine enough for what the game focuses on. On the other hand, I absolutely agree combat was made a lot easier than it needed to be because of Oatchi. Also, even with just one player, Pikmin 4’s combat can be broken even further with the 2 player mode and survey drone. All you need is to activate the survey drone and you can snipe enemies without being anywhere near them. I don’t mind the changes, but I do think the combat being easier is a valid criticism. I think the reason for that, though, is Pikmin 4 is a lot more beginner friendly. You don’t need to manage the Pikmin following you since Oatchi carries them on his back, but rather manage which types you bring out at a given time. You don’t need to focus as much on throwing Pikmin since Oatchi just rushes into enemies and throws a whole army on them, though that’s more effective with upgrades. Oatchi is just too useful in too many ways, for better and worse. Hopefully a Pikmin 5, if it includes another Oatchi like mechanic, will tone it down so things can be a bit more focused on better Pikmin management.

11:50 it actually does not, pikmin 4 is the only game in the series with a battle mode that the pikmins dont attack each other, they can only attack the other player's dog!

The game is much more difficult in a minimal oatchi playthrough, but I think a lot of the points in the video still stand. I think the reason the water wraith is so easy in 4 is also in part because there isn't as much of a need for the AI to make sure it doesn't get stuck, since the caves are predetermined instead of randomly generated. You really start to notice the difference in AI in the other 3 appearances of it. You are practically able to just walk by it and it takes forever to turn back around. Goes to show how a more demanding environment can lead to programming a better and more dynamic AI. A small correction also, Pikmin in Pikmin 4 battle mode don't actually fight each other, they only fight over what side carries more weight.

15:43 Can't say I expected to hear an unused parappa the rapper song in this video

I don't know how lenient the timer is in the engulfed castle, but I didn't even see the water wraith until the boss room.

6d ago

I consider it and Goolix mini bosses. They('re): -Proportionally to other bosses, relatively non-threatening. If you bring the proper types, neither one can ever kill a single Pikmin. -Rare enough to be considered more special than normal enemies, but lacking enough flair and threat level to be considered bosses. -Lacking in boss music. -Lack a ship part that they specifically carry or protect, which is also why I consider the Snagret a boss despite there being multiple of them.

I imagine the Puffstool in Pikmin 4 was mostly a way for the players to get familiar with how it worked, even old players with its new floor mold mechanics, in order to make the Toxstool boss fight more organic as players wouldn't have to figure what to do (which could have been frustrating especially since their Pikmins would be at risk) The issue is that they used the old puffstool, but probably should have either used a variant that also isn't very dangerous or put the Toxstool but with less mold, no poison mushrooms and no mold enemies to revive (although that would remove some of the uniqueness of the Towstool and its the bossfight in the cave, so I think they should have opted for the second)

i only played like. literally the wiiu land pikmin mini game but this definitely made me appreciate the old pikmin games just retroapecting on how werid this is as a series very nice video

I think “ruined” may be just a “bit” of an exaggeration

for purple key its generally better to just ignore the waith and have oatchi carry the onion

I never really thought about it since i wasn't really playing pikmin much but seeing the challenge basically gone on iconic bosses is sad- great video overall and your editing is improving!! Great video all around qwq

The Water Wraith was terrifying to me as someone who only played 4. Like it is relentless and the music playing in the background really upsets me the fear factor. The only problem is that on the second last level I accidentally got it stuck near the exit of the level. But dispite that it’s still a scary boss

I have played 2 after 4, and i'll die on this hill that it's not the waterwraith per se being hard. It's the fucking level design for floor 3 and 4. You can't just boobytrap every single tile in the room and expect me to go fast or to activate them all before hand when i NEED to be fast. Yes Oatchi helps a lot, Yes the cutscene alerts me of the wraith being there, but remove all the bombs from Pikmin 2 and the game gets much much easier trust me.

the mamuta isn't even considered a boss in pikmin 1, the wiki says the mamuta, armored cannon beatle, smoky progg, and puffstool are all normal enemies, people consider them bosses because of there unique designs

The Water Wraith being used in the side modes in Pikmin 4 is fine. Pikmin 2 also had the Water Wraith in a side level.

Calling the Mamuta a boss is a joke, pikmin 1 has no idea what should actually count as a boss half the time, 2 and 3 had a way better streamlined idea

I'm enjoying this video so far. I'm one of the weirdos who enjoys 1 the most (with 3 coming in second place). 4 just felt so underwhelming to me. Probably won't ever touch it again once I'm done 100%ing it.

I just used the waterwraith to kill most of the enemies in the purple union trial

I remember when i first encountered the smokey progg, i was like “man this egg thing is weird…i can attack it? Sweet” and then the immediate horror and regret that followed. so so many pikmin were lost that day

Ngl I kinda, didn’t feel a thing about the differences in these Bosses Pikmin 2’s WaterWraith felt like nothing to me once because I fought it literally 15+ times The Man At Leg’s was always easy to me because learning the pattern wasn’t that tricky to me (yes including the blue Pikmin only one surrounded by water) Smokey Progg is a joke, in both Pikmin 1 and 4 it’s a joke idk why people are saying it is now it always has been (honestly think it’s pretty overrated boss considered as “hard”) but PuffStool was also just, a existing boss to me in Pikmin 1, the first time I played it I just killed it, and to this day I never encountered Puffmin (Mushroom Pikmin whatever) Also I take Fluffy Mamuta Cute Idk maybe it’s because I started Pikmin 9 months ago when Pikmin 1 Switch edition game out but I just don’t see the hate for these changes

in a nutshell, pikmin 4 was too afraid to make any of the bosses threatening and oatchi made encounters so easy that they cana't put up a fight even if they could. Not enough was done to balance the old bosses to the new mechanics... and questionable decisions were made to make some not even feature their main gimmick. Also you forgot to mention how 'man at legs' was ruined purely by how oatchi carries all the pikmin on its back and can simply outrun the bullets in a circle. You can techincally do this in pikmin 2 but the ai of pikmin following behind would only need to move just a bit in the wrong way to get shot. Cover was actually something most people would rely on for consistant safety. Now oatchi with or without speed buff can outrun the bullets and without pikmin running behind theres never a chance for a straggler to move into the line of fire. Man at legs was not designed to handle singular moving targets. It needed to be redesigned to account for the new player mobility. Also winged pikmin completely break ALL the long legs fights including this one. A single spicy spray and a few charges will win the fight instantly.

The real problem with engulfed castle was the fact its layout was very simple and oatchi making it both easy to avoid danger and finishing tasks fast means there's never any real danger from the waterwraith. I litterally beat the entirety of engulfed castle without encountering the wraith once because of how effcient i was (i got the alternate dialogue from collin because i had purples before the fight). You seemed to miss the point of the trial wraith, you arent supposed to kill it, just disable its rollers and ignore it. overexposure didn't knill the wraith, it was the fact the game made it too easy for it to ever be athreat in the first place. the twin wraith may have been more of a joke fight to empower the player during the boss rush guantlet... but it might have been more interesting had the cave not recommend purples or at least made the maze with hazards that put purples in danger. (also why not have both wraiths carry each of the joycons?) As a side note, the fact mud as a hazard is never utilized for the waterwraith was a massive missed opportunity. rather nintendo thought the btter idea was making numerous safe zones with clear boarders was the best thing to do. They really were afraid to let players struggle...

Who will be next to be nerfed out in pikmin 5? Vehemoth Phosbat? Pileated Snagret? Who knows!

Honestly, I feel like Oatchi... kind of ruined Pikmin 4 for me. And I hate to say that, because I love the concept, but Pikmin 4 really does feel like a different type of game than the previous three. It feels like they heard people complaining about the removal of the ability to move your entire squad with the C-stick in Pikmin 3, and decided that the solution to that was to remove the need to have a squad following you around altogether. I loved Pikmin 4, but Pikmin 3 feels like the peak of what I enjoyed about the series. I liked the multi-tasking, the managing of your Pikmin, the balance between combat, puzzles, and resources management. Pikmin 4 is much more a puzzle game with a side of resources, and even then, barely so. It just feels different to me, and while that's not inherently a bad thing, I still find myself missing the gameplay of the older games and going back to them whenever I feel like playing Pikmin.

Finally someone agrees

The intended method of the final Sage Leaf Trial is to purposely lure the wraith to clear out all of that hazards in your path. They are all placed in a way where it is easy to get the wraith to deal with them while your Pikmin are carrying the onion and it doesn’t have room to turn around and attack your pikmin. Then, you can dodge or kill it at the end. Or, if you are fast enough, you can just try to avoid the wraith the entire time and just carry the onion ahead it, leading to a tense and suspenseful experience. You definitely aren’t supposed to just kill it first, they made the rest of the stage so tight compared to the time limit to discourage that.

4:34 You don’t have to fight the wraith, think back what the sage leaf said, “Think about what you need to do and not need to do”

simple: dont use oatchi AS much

So a thing to note with the Puffstool (and a reason why it probably didn't come back for 2 and 3) is that in the 1st game, all pikmin had the same body type and the shroomin could get away with looking like generic pikmin. When they introduced new pikmin types, their bodies changed too, meaning the switch from purple, white, or even rock and winged pikmin to normal shroomin would be jarring. With Pikmin 4, they had the Groovy Longlegs who takes control of your pikmin with song and has an effect that works for all pikmin, a pinkish plume on the tip of their plant, which all pikmin have. It was easier to use that design for the puffstool than design shroomin for other types of pikmin. Oh someone said this before me... DARN IT.

Pikmin has multiple problems facing its core game design that defeats its ability to be a difficult game. And it's not even just Nintendo being the baby game company either. Both being an RTS game and the core design philosophy of the Pikmin stop the games from actually being difficult. The original Emperor Bulblax isn't hard he's just an inflated health bar and the dodongo gimmick. Same with the Phrogg it's not difficult it's just a check for how many Pikmin you can throw at it. Pikmin is just rock paper scissors of problem solving, if anything doesn't comply with that its difficulty tends to just be arbitrary and not well designed. Adding more gimmicks and the sequels necessarily must just further removes the RPS from the game making more and more content arbitrary in how it's balanced. Pikmin 1 also has some problems with the optional bosses being pure optional, since they are just kinda there for fun. They don't really represent a super boss that other series would use them as. And yeah it's a really really cool element of world building and exploration but when they are given a purpose by the later games they just fall flat because they never had a purpose to begin with. I think if they really want to make special and difficult Pikmin bosses again it would require a massive change in how the game functions

Smoky Progg is specifically a malformed, larval Mamuta

One thing I don't see people talk about with the Water Wraith in 4 is it's entrance animation In 2 it was this slow, slide whistle that made everything else go quiet, followed by the thunderous crash of two stone rollers hitting the ground. It's slow and loud, a perfect build up to the unstoppable force that is the Wraith. In 4 it just falls with and boop! It's here now, the game even plays a cutscene every time it falls down, which just ruins the sense of being followed since you'll always find him, instead of him finding you.

OH SNAP. I was wondering why your voice seemed familiar. Glad you're still making vids. I'm a big pikmin 2 guy myself, so as soon as I saw the water wraith in the trailer, Instantly thought something was up

I started the video and looked over at my husband (big time fan of Pikmin 2,) and went "honey, they screwed up the bosses in Pikmin 4" and he so genuinely went "damnit." We still plan to get it since we both love Pikmin, but I love how earnest his reaction was.