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UK Sailmakers
United States
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2012
Lessons Learned on Shannon One Design
Join us for the sixteenth episode of Lessons Learned, UK Sailmakers' podcast series hosted by Buttons Padin, featuring special guest David Dickson. In this episode, David discusses the history of the Shannon One Design-a unique wooden boat crafted for the Shannon River and still raced today near Athlone, in the heart of Ireland.
David, alongside Barry Hayes from UK Sailmakers Ireland, has been part of a project to design a modern sail for this historic class, bringing renewed energy to a boat design over a century old.
Chapters:
0:00 Lessons Learned Intro
00:50 History of the Shannon One Design
2:52 Sailing Shannon One Designs
4:27 Tweaking the Sail Design
5:49 Sail Controls
6:08 Lake Sailing
6:31 Collaborating on the Prototype with Barry Hayes
8:41 Popular Irish Boat Classes
9:58 Finalising the Sail Design for Production
10:29 Characteristics of Wood Spars
12:49 Service from UK Sailmakers Ireland
14:07 The Future of the Fleet
15:05 Racing the Shanon One Design
16:21 Closing
Image Credits: David Dickson and Google Images
Like and subscribe to the UK Sailmakers TH-cam channel to be notified when more great content from our channel is uploaded. The Lessons Learned Podcast is also available for streaming on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Amazon Music.
UK Sailmakers is proud to have the Lessons Learned Podcast Series recognised as the #1 Sailing Podcast in the UK by FeedSpot.
David, alongside Barry Hayes from UK Sailmakers Ireland, has been part of a project to design a modern sail for this historic class, bringing renewed energy to a boat design over a century old.
Chapters:
0:00 Lessons Learned Intro
00:50 History of the Shannon One Design
2:52 Sailing Shannon One Designs
4:27 Tweaking the Sail Design
5:49 Sail Controls
6:08 Lake Sailing
6:31 Collaborating on the Prototype with Barry Hayes
8:41 Popular Irish Boat Classes
9:58 Finalising the Sail Design for Production
10:29 Characteristics of Wood Spars
12:49 Service from UK Sailmakers Ireland
14:07 The Future of the Fleet
15:05 Racing the Shanon One Design
16:21 Closing
Image Credits: David Dickson and Google Images
Like and subscribe to the UK Sailmakers TH-cam channel to be notified when more great content from our channel is uploaded. The Lessons Learned Podcast is also available for streaming on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Amazon Music.
UK Sailmakers is proud to have the Lessons Learned Podcast Series recognised as the #1 Sailing Podcast in the UK by FeedSpot.
มุมมอง: 203
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how do they control sail twist on square top mains?
Good stuff!
RUFKM? How to make an absolute mess of your spinny and all its lines. Not to mention the halyard was lowered too early and quickly. FFS - just ease the tack line back, gather the foot, and stuff into the cabin as halyard is lowered smoothly.
"Suddenly Alone" certainly puts an exclamation point on the situation. Well done Buttons and Dick.
Really interesting. Even if you don't have a proper sea anchor, a dinghy with its engine down or even some buckets might be a good improvisation! I had thought about this once but it hadn't occurred to me to make the lines pass by the mid cleat. Cool.
Brilliant, and not because I know the guy.
🤣
Really worth the time I spent watching. Thanks
Great interview
Glad you enjoyed it! Christian is a natural storyteller, he certainly knows how to paint a picture with words.
Thank you! It's a beneficial POV which explains the system easily.
Beautiful and classy. I have a Ron Holland designed Nicholson 33. #39 I saved her from the scrapyard. New motor in now. Just fixed and resealed the keel and got bottom paint. Just working on the courage to make the big left turn now.
why are you RUNNING without a preventer
I was looking for the same thing and didn’t see it, fine until it’s not 💥
We primarily use a letter box drop in big winds and when we’re finishing in port and need a quick before hitting the break water.
Done quite bit double handed on a Dehler 29 with the Asymmetrical in short course racing, here on our lake. I love it no crew, just 2 good sailor in tune.
I'm very late to the party here, but 100% flick. The very first tack shown, she did not complete her tack and her sails were not filling by the time that the starboard boat had to take avoiding action. th-cam.com/video/IFJK-YkJFRk/w-d-xo.html It's clear if you watch it frame-by-frame or at full speed. She does the same again at 0:27, never completes the tack and so has no rights to cause the other boats to take avoiding action.
I don't agree about the first tack. Freeze at 7 seconds. The port-approach boat has nearly completed her tack and the starboard boat has initiated her tack. But did she have to do so? There is plenty of water between them and they are not on collision course. Starboard just chose to tack there. The second tack is completed before she luffs back up. She is leeward boat and is entitled to sail her proper course, which is to luff up to round the mark. 18.3a doesn't apply between them because they both tacked in the zone. Now, the outside boat might have a case for a protest of the middle boat at 55 seconds under 18.3a. But, I never saw the outside boat's jib luff. She was rolling the middle boat anyway.
I've just frozen at 0:07. I can see a boat with sails still flogging, not up to speed and not having completed their tack. Also, they're plumb upright. Also, she's straightened up her rudder and is no longer turning. The boat on a starboard close-hauled course is now overlapped, perhaps 1/4 length to windward, and crucially she's going faster and her rig is heeled over. I reckon at closes the mastheads are within 5 metres of each other and that's too close for comfort. I fully support their decision to tack, I would do in that case. If both boats were to continue at that point with rudders straight the collision is ~2 seconds away. The fact that the tacking boat never actually completes her tack after seeing her oppo tacking away (she flips back before sails fill, occupying water that the boat who tacked away would have sailed into) just makes it more damming. In the second incident, if you can tell me exactly when you think she completed her tack I'll look again. But I never see her make the same heading as the boats fetching the mark on the starboard layline. Indeed, she only just passes head-to-wind. The boat outside, meanwhile, does fill sails on the new tack (25 seconds) and again is forced to keep clear. As for who tacked in the zone, to boot, having looked carefully at the wakes of the boats and the perspective of the camera, I also think that there's an argument to say that the inside boat tacked inside the zone and the other boat tacked outside. But I'm not 100% on that so won't press it. But nonetheless, I say that they didn't complete their tack on either incident and legitimately caused a starboard tack boat to keep clear. If you think she did complete her tack, let me know when she's successfully on a close-hauled course...
@@joshuapeckham2453 Hey Joshua. You and I may not end up agreeing, and that's fine. I'm a certified judge. But I'm sure you can find judges who would agree with you. I will note that the on-the-water umpire right behind them didn't agree with your call. In fact, I'm not even sure whether anyone hailed protest. I'm going to call the port tack boat A throughout this, the first starboard-tack boat as B and the second, outside starboard boat C. Second 7 spans several frames. I advanced at the first flicker of movement to tack by B, which right about at the first "8 second" frame. The position of the sails is not relevant (the "full and drawing" requirement was removed several revisions ago)..A is within a degree or two of close-hauled course. I don't think there is an overlap. But the perspective is poor. The umpires have a better view. I do not see an imminent collision at that point. I think B did not need to change course at that point and just tacked because it was smart tactically,. At 9 seconds, B has sailed on at the same heading they were on when A started the tack. So, they were making the point that they were on close hauled course. I agree with the umpire that the tack was clean. But it really was close and I can see where you might disagree. A tacks back right after that. I think B passes head to wind within the zone. C was on starboard outside the zone and fetching the mark (actually footing off a bit). So, 18.3a does apply to the interaction with A and B. At about 25 seconds, we reach a point where A and C are parallel. B is footing a bit. At that point, A has completed the tack and begins to luff up to make the mark. It is entitled to do that. Again, the umpires let it go. At 34 seconds, all three are parallel to each other and C is not luffing its sails. I didn't see "C" luff its sails until it is easing them to turn. That's how I see it, anyway. I'm using this as a video for discussion at a presentation I'm doing on rules at the mark for a local yacht club. I appreciate your input. I'm sure several will see it the way you do. The point will be to examine the rules and also what the smart thing to do in each case. For example, C could have tried to make the point that they got too close before B's tack was complete. Instead, they do the smart thing and come back up to close hauled because they figure they will get past B. Again, thanks for your input. Sorry if this is horribly long. The umpires, without the benefit of starting and stopping the video, called it in real time. I think they got it right.
@@anthonypelletier9651 Thanks for taking the debate in the spirit it's intended, rare on the internet these days! And thanks for the clarification about the definition of the tack - I did actually go looking for it when writing yesterday's comment and noticed, contrary to my prior understanding, that there's no definition in the rules now other than being "on a close hauled course" which I would take to mean on a parallel course to another boat which is beating. Regarding the first, I think we agree to disagree while respecting your experience and that of the umpires on the water. I still feel that A never gets closer than ten degrees to a close-hauled course and that a collision is imminent given the difference in headings and boat speeds. I feel that way watching it both frame-by-frame and at full speed. Regarding the second, looking back, I can concede that the boats fetching the mark on starboard are generally footed by a few degrees, and that particularly in the second incident when B tacks under C, C does come up but is not forced above a close-hauled course at first (c.22 seconds). Her heading between 22 and 25 seconds is my reference for what a close-hauled heading looks like. I think she does go above close hauled at about 25 seconds however, and I see the boat sit upright as wind comes out of the mainsail and the jib starts to back (I don't see an ease to otherwise explain it). I would say that the luff was necessary for C to keep clear of B as otherwise she'd have impacted B's starboard quarter if she had maintained her course to the mark but that call is marginal and she could have waited another second or two to make it clearer for the umpires. However between A and B, again I think A is a good ten degrees off completing her tack. The key for me is the angle of the jib. At the point of furthest bear-away, around 25-26 seconds, the jib is flogging and stays within the bounds of the foredeck all the while, which indicates a very fine angle to the wind. Anyway, I don't think we'll agree necessarily and so we shall concede it's a very fine call! I would be interested in what the conclusions of your seminar are. Out of interest, and you may be able to help...I've a vague recollection that, in general, a boat is assumed not to have changed its status (i.e. tacking, overlapped, etc.) until it is clear that it has done so, i.e. if there is uncertainty then it is assumed that the relationship between two boats was the last certain relationship. Is that part of the interpretations, or case book, or something similar?
@@joshuapeckham2453 I will let you know what they say in the discussion. I should add that I showed this to my son, who is also a sailing coach and competitive racer. He agrees with me on the first tack. But he thinks you have it right on the second. There is a flicker in C's jib that I missed. I think C could legitimately claim the had to sail above close hauled. If that were found as a fact, B infringed C but was forced to by A. However, A was entitled to her proper course relative to B. So B cannot be exonerated for the breach because she was forced. As windward boat, B has to give room for A to sail proper course. The fact that she didn't have room is still on her. I thought B had room to cross C and should have done so. That would have put her outside the mess.
The most expensive way to get places for free
This is the equivalent as a turn exit crash in any motorsport.
That's a great bit of sailing, and a great wee video of it, too.
Great interview Brendan! WSA-OC & I love Marie! 👏🏼⛵️🏁 ~Debra Osborne 2024 Commodore WSA-OC ⛵️
Thanks. Straight to the point.
This is a "gybe douse". Re the name "Mexican", I had always understood it was from the Newport to Ensenada race. For decades, the finish line was at the entrance to Ensenada harbor*, and if you didn't douse and gybe ~immediately~, you often had an unpleasant windward return exactly when you wanted to be DONE already. So, the gybe-douse maneuver was widely associated to that locale. (* changed to closer to The Coral now)
Is it possible to install multiple reefs (two or three) in a headsail? Some mainsails have up to four reefs. Or is it not recommended?
Hello, thank you for your question. Multiple reefs in this style would not be recommended. If a more adaptable sail is needed on a regular basis, a roller furling headsail would be better suited to the task.
Literally always the helmsman chatting about NOTHING.
Got the t-shirt. Creaming along and it all goes tits up in a second. If you race sailboats you will fuck up, just really annoying when you're the one paying the bill....
So is it appropriate to use a twing instead of cars for other headsails? The advantage being that twings are easily adjusted from the cockpit.
Certainly a genoa, or any other foresail you're sheeting outside the rails most of the time. They're really easy to get a shape with as well, much easier than cars, and you don't need to put a dozen holes each side in your deck to fit them.
we just used to call it 'a windward drop' often praticed for when it it would be useful
Nice interview!
Thanks for listening, we're glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks. You anticipated a bunch of my questions.
I'm glad to hear you found the video informative!
Finally find a video that just explains it, without fluff. Thank you.
I'm glad to hear you found the video informative!
good video, but one more advantage to the letterbox; as the boom is FASTENED to the tack being sailed, to keep the crew safe, there is NO chance of a "Chinese gibe" as the boom is always on the same side as the chute, and no chance of a "power-up" while out of full control.
by the way, this isn't new, it is the safest way of jibing ANYTIME, as the centring of the boom ensures no crew has a "booming" headache, as the boom is moved slowly, also avoiding any shock loading on the sheet. ( this can also be made by a tight sheet, and crossing centreline by use of the track car, if monitored by ropes, so that is controlled, by the resistance of the rope on a winch); in either method the crew ALWAYS knows where the boom is, and any accident is less likely, or at least only a light tap. BUT anytime this is done, the words "GYBING" should be yelled, so any crew knows the boom is about to move!
How deep (how much smaller sail becomes) is headsail reef?
Generally speaking, a headsail's slab reef will bring your sail down approximately one size (ie: from a No.1 to a No.2 or a No.3 to a No.4). But you can discuss your specific requirements with your local UK Sailmakers loft, and they will be happy to help deign the perfect sailplan for your needs. You can get a no obligation quote here: www.uksailmakers.com/quote/
If the crew is even an averagely capable racing crew, imo letter box can be left to near-survival conditions.
clever!
That skipper will have a back problem. Horrible posture. Should stand centreline.
Maybe the 2nd boat's jib would not be luffing if the twist was reduced by moving the car foreword. With a barber hauler or reaching strut the overlapping jibs do fine on a reach.
I'm Australian, Kiwi is slang here for New Zealand. Most of us living on the East coast with NZ to the South East it's likely a similar geographical reference. My skipper jokes it's called a Kiwi drop because if you stuff it up NZ is where the boat ends up 😂
On the side of the boat
yes, a bucket of water can be used -- even a heavy tool box.
You do it with a bucket of water
Wonder why they call it a barber hauler.
because there are a half a dozen on so different sets of terminology for not only sails but all the manner in which you rig your yacht to fly those sails ( note the term yacht) as distinct from the American "sailboat"
@@yachticus such a long winded response to say you don't know. Sailboats are also yachts.
How to gybe is important when to gybe is critical. I sailed (not for long) on a boat where the owner would sail until to the layline way too far from the mark. When on the layline vmg is zero. A very successful one design sailor told me that the way to win is " point the boat in the right direction and drive as fast as you can" sailing fast in the wrong direction is a losing strategy.
Promo*SM
Good talk, Brendan! Plenty of food for thought.
Geez guys. Take your fricken' time...
Little triangles mean less lean.
How does this not foul the kite on the spreaders?
Make sure your spread tips are taped or have boots on their tips. After doing scores of these drops over the years, I have never had a spinnaker caught on the spreaders. The most common poor result is when you try to button hook the mark. The spinnaker does not start down early enough resulting in the boat trying to sail upwind with most of the spinnaker still up -- which is slow!
This is an "all or nothing" maneuver - no hesitation, no "taking it slow". Pit pre-flakes the halyard so it 100% goes out clean and fast. As the boat turns, the moment the main covers the kite, the clutch is opened and the sail crashes to the foredeck like a falling curtain. Spin' should never get near the spreaders.
Shocking that they don’t wear crash helmets in these conditions. If hit by that boom, you are dead.
Yeah. But the while point of racing is getting laid after. ... So...
Just found this channel. And subscribed.
Nice shot and music, but what about the "learning" part? Would love to actually learn something about storm sails :)
Thanks for sharing, this is very cool video! I will test it One quick question, I'm planning to test it first time with engine. How can I avoid have the rope stuck with the propeller? I see the rope goes almost under the boat when tacking.
If you are going to try this with the engine, I suggest having some in a dingy set the drogue in the water after you put the boat in gear. This should reduce the chance of fouling the prop with the drogue steering lines.
How about if the MOB is unconscious?? What's the latest/best recommended way of retrieving then? Suppose the answer to this really depends on the number of crew, but I'm thinking in the case of a couple sailing, 1 MOB, the other on board.
I’d like to know the answer to this one too.
There are always new and/or improved MOB recovery methods being developed. One solution for an incapacitated MOB is the use of a rescue swimmer in conjunction with a Mid-Line lift. The rescue swimmer is connected to the boat with a safety line, who will reach the MOB and get Mid-Line lifted together. This rescue swimmer needs to be trained and practiced at this manoeuvre. Otherwise, a second option which is less dangerous for the rescuer but more dangerous for the unconscious MOB is to manoeuvre the boat close enough that a rescue crew can be lowered on a halyard into the water to secure the MOB. This rescue crew should be wearing a harness and a PFD as well. Techniques to secure the MOB include using a tether, a second halyard, the LifeSling, or (if nothing else) bear-hugging the MOB. Many modern PFDs have a dedicated lifting strap built in which makes it much easier to find a secure lifting point to affix the halyard, etc. It's very important for crews to practice real world MOB drills and skills on a regular basis. It's also important to be familiar with your own PFD's features, including where the lifting strap and tether points are, and even better if you are also acquainted with your crew's equipment too for situations where they may be unable to help themselves. For anyone doing any coastal or offshore sailing, taking a reputable Offshore Personal Survival Course in your area is something I very highly recommend.
@@warrenthorp there's an accessory with a coiled up line attached to the lifejacket harness. I forget the name (lifeline?). It can be pulled out with a gaff pole hook then used to lift the casualty. It is thin dyneema. That should overcome the difficulty of connecting to the casualty. The next issue is having sufficient power to lift them. Connecting to a raised 8:1 ratio block and tackle appears to be the preference. It tends to be the more experienced crew that are on deck whilst the least capable remain onboard. It is worth looking at it from that point of view.