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Oh right, never really though about the tarnishing as a protective measure against Erdtree burial.

"Forefathers one and all, bare witness" being said as a decendant of Godefroy has now grafted the modern dragon onto him might be a call out to Godefroy's love of the ancient dragon. Its not only his forefathers watching but the ancient dragons as well.

Really interesting stuff, I recently looked at the description for the spell Tibia Summons and it says "Those Lost In Death" opposed to "Those Who Live In Death" and at first I thought maybe it was a translation thing, but following your thinking about the Mariners, it would somewhat make sense if there are those "lost" in death and the Mariner is somewhat of a shepherd, ensuring those "lost" can join the "living" in death

I will say, you are right about Marika sending away the Tarnished to die away from the Erd Tree, but that's not all of it. Marika isn't nearly as fallible as your assumptions about her foresight make seem. Her plan works perfectly, exactly as intended in all but one aspect (providing you as the Tarnished beat the game of course). I feel the DLC will support this statement: Marika is a ridiculously powerful being, not necessarily in physical capability, but in manipulation and planning. She came from mortality to the literal epitome of mastery in the Lands Between. She wanted free of the Greater Will from times before the Erd Tree and planned this exact series of events. She never feared needing an army for Leyndell, the Tarnished were treated the way they were because 1) Your reason, and 2) She no longer needed an army but foresaw an event where she would need a person touched by grace and then dying outside the Erd Tree's reach. All Tarnished that return are outside of the Erd Tree's reach, which is why we can be resurrected, and why Godrick can use our limbs, he uses Grace to animate them as Marika does us. Even the Night of Black Knives was part of her plan and she was likely a participant, though I think her ONE misstep was not expecting Ranni to shed herself of her Empyrian flesh. I do not believe deathroot was intended and may be the only gap in her plan. I don't think she shattered the Elden Ring over something as simple as her demigod child dying, she uses everyone coldly and calculatingly, and her golden child son was no exception. In order to free herself from the Greater Will, she needed to kill the Elden Beast. Everything that has happened is setup for this and positioning her to return to full power. Destined Death would need eventually to be released in order for this to happen, which is why Ranni was given the fragment that she made into her gift for Rykard. Only a faithful Tarnished, once imbued with Grace and ready to be again would have the relentless determination to rise and fight again and again through impossible odds. So they needed to die across the fog. Marika needed a body for the Elden Beast to turn into a weapon, and she didn't want it to be hers, so she consumed a mimic like the cut Asimi questline and that is Radagon, and she always intended him to be turned into a weapon by the Greater Will as a substitute for the mistress of this entire plan. Even the distribution of Great Runes was to make sure the Tarnished would be able to gather enough power to challenge all who stood in the way of killing the Elden Beast, and remaking the Elden Ring. Even the existence of Melina was part of Marika's plan, transforming the essence of the Gloam Eyed Queen fed to the Erd Tree (which then Marika was in control of the flowing of blessings, including births) and Melina was then born at the foot (in the basins you see in Leyndell) of the Erd Tree and doesn't exactly know what it is like to have a biological mother as Marika treated her as a tool and not a person, like everything else. In nearly every case, the Tarnished completes Marika's will, killing the Elden Beast and remaking the Elden Ring. The only flaw in her plan is Ranni, and the lunar princess's ending is the one time Marika fails, because she didn't foresee it. Literally the only thing she didn't.

Here's the best i can do: We know Godrick the Grafted lacks integrity and has a weak sense of personal identity. We know he's obsessed with the idea of ancestry and doing right by emulating those who came before him. We know that there is nothing random about the process of grafting. (You put one arm here... and one leg here... and one arm on that other arm just like so... etc). It is entirely plausible that Godefroy doesn't look like Godrick; rather, Godrick looks like Godefroy because he knew what Godefroy looked like, and he grafted body parts to himself purposefully to resemble Godefroy as closely as possible. There. That's my best, most shameless Godefroy model reuse cope. And yet, even coping this hard, there's no way to account for them having the same axe. 😭😭

I too love marikas plains... oh you said plans nevermind.

Beasts are human

No, Pearl Harbor was simply allowed to happen, 9/11 was an inside job.

Why does everyone simply believe Melina when she says, "in Marikas own words"? By what right do we automatically believe what she says?

Holy smokes. This is AMAZING !!!

The sword monument about the first defense of Leyndell is not about the dragons, that has its own sword monument near what I think is called Stormcaller Church...

Does anyone consider that the meteor that struck Farum Azula was summoned from space. I think there is grounds for this argument in the form of the destruction of the eternal cities, the initial arrival of the Elden Star, the breaking of the black moon of Nokstella and finally the Founding Rain of Stars that says that it is the founding “glinstone” (that is to say comet or meteor) sorcery and that the primeval current was “seen” and thus became real, ie physics was discovered and thus magic that could manipulate gravitational physics was also discovered. Thus, what the astrologer saw became real… and rained “amber” down upon the land, the astrologer summoned the Glintstone rain, almost accidentally. But what if glinstone of a certain size was weaponized? Also, regarding the moon, could that hold special weight due to being of “cold” glinstone but perpetually in a rotational orbit?

Keep it up tarnished, I truly see no reason why you won't have a successful channel.

Your four most recent videos in the last month have all popped up in my algorithm, and I've enjoyed what you have to say. Always love to hear new voices talk about this game's fantastic lore. Just subscribed, can't wait to hear what you think of SOTE.

Can i be part of ur plan? 😘

Fascinating paths of thought you’ve wandered down. Thanks for bringing us along, I enjoyed the wonderment!

Oddly, in vers 1.00 Malekith's Destined Death attack was purple, not red, and the prominent jewelry on the Godskins are purple, especially on items that summon Blackflame (Peeler, for instance). It seems like Destined Death was a purple flame stolen from the Gloam Eyed Queen, and purple is the complementary color of yellow (or gold) on the color wheel, meaning its opposite. After the Purple flame was stolen the Godskin fire became black-and-white. Of course, Blaidd and Gurranq have/had purple eyes, too, and Destined Death is another word for Fate, or a Geas, which is a Shadow that follows someone who serves the Greater Will, bringing death to those that rebel against its designs. All of this is to say that the Grave Violets and Destined Death were once the same color in 1.00. Another coincidence is that the Wraithcallers drop Grave Violets, as do Royal Revenants, and the latter seem like bodies fused together soullessly (which is why Erdtree healing hurts them). The wraiths that the Wraithcallers summon with their bells are like the wraiths that erupt from Omen horns/mouths. I wish we could get an interaction between Wraithcallers and Omen, if only to understand their significance more clearly.

Kudos (:

7:55 lastprotagest touches on some of what roger said that was lost in translation. The”flaw in the golden order” was more spelled out along the lines of those that lived in death had a too strong will to live.

I haven’t watched the full video yet so apologies if you have already made this connection, but maybe the reason why modern ghost flame has more of a blue tint than a purple tint is because destined death is red tinted and was removed from the elden ring, taking the red hue (that would’ve mixed with the current blue tint and made the ancient ghost flame purple) away, just leaving the blue tint behind?

wow i love this vid! i've been tumbling hades and the triad levels of ancient "cos:mos" theory in my head and your research gives me some hints. i am curious to hear if you have any thots on Torrent, the ghost-river-flow horse that has a more blueish tinged aura around them? The Horse, Miquella and Marika are the only characters so far that we can allocate to hexist in both map worlds, "Lands-Between" as well as "Shadow Lands".

Might be a stretch, but the Twinbird Kite Shield could have some lore implications based on its design. There is a Black/Red Bird, who matches the colors of Destined Death. The other bird half is Blue/Red. A seemingly random color combination... ...unless they're mixed together, then you get the color Purple. The same as the Gravewort Flower.

Fia gives new meaning to the term "what's your body count"

We know of two instances of where an in-game flame has changed, or lost, its hue. Black flame, associated directly with destined death, used to have a red tint. Sealing this power away created the "black" flame, or accentuated the black within it. I'm of the mind this event, or events involved with this change, also resulted in the ghostflame turning pale white. interestingly, the mariners still embody the purple hue that is described. Considering that Maliketh still wields the truer power of the red "black flame", it could imply a deeper connection to the true nature of their source of power. Perhaps it is the death root returning that hue, or the mariners are simply more abstract and incomprehensible than we might originally anticipate. I still struggle to reconcile Trina's flame with ghostflame, however

Didn’t Miquella’s needle work on other people, like Millicent?

Great video man, the chairs on the mariners boat have the same pattern as some chairs in raya lucaria academy, and some of the academy's decorations and imagery in old parts of the place are very reminiscent of the mariners design

What if the Death Birds were like, draining a soul of their rancor to allow them to pass on. The rancor is all that negative detritus that wants to cling to the corporeal. I love this theory! Thanks for sharing!

Excellent points. A couple of points that also await your theory. The Mariners are based on Charon, the Greek ferryman of souls who transported the dead from the land of living to the Underworld. The Deathbirds are based roughly on Ravens which performed the same for souls in Celtic and Norse mythology. This role is known as a psychopomp, a guide for the souls of the dead. With the Rune of Death sealed away, they don't have the power to complete the process and inadvertently create undead. Sleep and Death are related in Greek, indigenous, and other spiritual belief systems. The idea is that the subconscious is like an ocean. When we sleep or spirit travel, we swim a little bit beneath the surface and return. When we die, we sink into the depths never to return. The Deathbed Companions are those who use collected life eneregy to dive in and "rescue" the dying soul before they sink too far and anchor them back to life through rebirth. A sort of controlled reincarnation. As an aside, the trumpet used by the Mariner is a reference to the horn blown by an archangel in the Book of Revelations to raise the dead for judgement on the Apocalypse.

Some of the birds do death blight attacks so the idea that they've been altered makes sense

"There's something weird going on at Mt Gelmir" sums up its entire existence within the Lands Between.

I just want to note that that tibia mariners have a purple hue and they seem to have purple flames surrounding their boats. Maybe the last vestige of the ancient ghost flame? Excellent video! I’m doing research on the topic of death myself

Sirens can use rancor????

I have really been getting into the Death Bed Companion setup lately, and I appreciate this video coming out when it did. I think you're right on the money for the process of rebirth , or the continuation of spirits in any case. The purple vs. white ghost flame is an interesting theory, and I think it might ascribe to it completely. Maybe this is why purple has moved over to sleep, that peaceful "slumber" of the spirit realm was constrained by taking out the death room, so it evolved to the next best route to the soul. It also indicates that the rune of death was taken out to trap the souls in the living realm, particurly hero souls used for the Erdtree. Perhaps, unlike the minor erdtrees over their catacombs, the second phase of the Erdtree hinges on this recycling of souls not being possible. "Maybe if Godwyn had a twin..." Well, I sometimes wonder if Ranni's fate had a lot to do with Godwyn, maybe not twins but I suppose it's not entirely impossible, but potentially she was supposed to be his alloted host or maiden during some part merging of the Erdtree and the Moon. "I would not be controlled by that thing."

There is death root in Farum Azula and it is seemingly not connected by root system.

I do think that the entry to Placidusax's arena involves turning back time in a literal sense somehow, as the storm is described as being outside of time, which is why the ancient city, in my opinion, has yet to completely fall (and why the beastmen seem to be rotting away rather than dying and being reborn as Those Who Live In Death, imo). It's even said that dragon scales resist the passage of time, which is why ancient dragons are ageless, and why weapons forged with their scales can kill gods. That said, I could absolutely see dreaming being the mechanism through which you actually go back in time, rather than a more physical trip.

If you look closely You can see a lil bit of ghost flame around the purple flowers, i figured that was the hue the item description was talking about, not necessarily the purple flower petals themselves but the aura that surrounds them.

These some very interesting interpretations, I like the idea that the Mariners are the origin of the other Those Who Live In Death since it means they are much more important in the grand scheme of things! Ghostflame once having a different colour makes sense to me as well. Maybe lying down and sleeping in Farum Azula lets the Tarnished commune with the spirits of all the Dragons who are a part of it, and bring us into the dimension where the Dragonlord is waiting for his God to return? If Placidusax is sleeping as well then this also makes his situation even more eerily similar to Malenia's.

Keep up the videos man I love your work and the quality on these is really good and it’s awesome learning about these even a thousand hours of playtime on this game and the dlc coming up!

A really niche lore topic I'm really into

Either I'm ignorant, or this is the first time I've heard someone point out that Grave Violets are "the hue of Ghost Flame." I'm now drawn to the idea that Ghost Flame used to be combined with Sleep and may have resulted in a true death. Ghost flame burns the physical body, but the soul survives while the sleep flame may burn the soul leaving the body alive. As you mentioned, Godwyn is trapped in an everlasting sleep unable to die while Ranni's soul is separated from her dead flesh. The two sides of the curse-mark may represent sleep and ghost flame respectively. Remember the purple sludge you walk across in Godwyn's chamber may relate to sleep and remember the godskin noble protecting Ranni's corpse who uses ghost flame and how Ranni's body is burnt when we find it. I dunno, maybe there's something there, or just a little unhinged speculation 😅

Great video! Love your understanding of death in the lands between. I think the deathbead companions give to people to be born a new and for the soul of the nobel to find another life(some sort of immortality)we can see this in the immortality of grandmasters and also the silver tear of the Nox,all of these soul manipulation is against the eardtree because it will prevent souls from returning to it. So marika by plucking away the rune of death, allowed immortality to be extended to all the peoples in the lands between. I know my understanding is a bit shake but your video helped me alot to wrap my head around the concept of death in the game. great video, and i love the way you encapsulate many parts of the lore together. Can't wait for the dlc and your theories after playing it

Godwyn don't lose 😤

The Eclipse failed because of Radahn

Hey man, I enjoyed the video, but I do have a bit of constructive feedback: I think these videos would be improved if you slowed down your speech a little bit so that way people could absorb more of the information. You can also add in more gaps for your voice recordings in post to let some of that information settle at times as well.

blaidd uses ice as ranni his emperian, so why don't malekith use holy? 🤔 he is also feared by gods, also wears white robes not skin but still lol

Great video,your explanation of where they become two entities with different motivations has to do with the effects of the due and radagon time spent with rennela. Also i think marika used a larval tear to birth the radagon persona as her being a newuman is heavily implied, and she must be well versed in eternal city magic.

They are omens for a reason. A reminder of the return to the crucible.

how does the crucible fit into all this? it seems like a pretty big part of omen lore

Only one defeated enemy is counted as a god

Dualism, Death, Dung - or, how my mornings going.