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Flop Game :((, I wish this game had more players

DNF duel was almost as barebones as it got at a PREMIUM PRICE which is UNACCEPTABLE for a company as rich as Nexon! and I say this as a person who wanted it to succeed and even used to play the mmo. Fighting games make no attempts to hide what a time investment they are and it's much harder to justify that the smaller the community is. It goes from having a cool interesting talent to trying to learn a dead language no-one uses. less players less matches less community less learning less status to be gained less respect yes there are exceptions to the rule, but that's still the calculations players are making

I understand where you're coming from and I agree to a certain extent. And i agree that DNF wasn't given a fair shake. Howrver, to pretend that steamcharts doesnt mean anything is also disingenuous. The deltas between characters and the lack of options in certain character interactions was really unhealthy for the game. Even barring that, the delta between DNF a game that came out 2 years ago vs central fiction is wild in terms of player count. 200 people on pc + console players is enough for a somewhat serviceable match making experience I'd imagine. But 9 people as a 24 hour peak? If im a new player what am i supposed to do? Im not saying every game needs to have a million players but the playerbase for DNF seems like it's definitely below the threshold of providing a decent player experience. Not saying you cant hold tournaments, not saying you cant enjoy the game. But you want to hide the fact that the game has less then a double digit number of people online to someone considering spending 30 dollars on the game?

Too much reach on that spectre class

FGs don't die until you literally can't play the game. Find a friend and hop on Fightcade and you can bring any FG from the 1990s back to life literally whenever you want

Great video!

I'm kind of interested with Granblue, should I start with this game (GBVSR ) or should I play the other one? also I just want to add as someone who doesn't know anything about Granblue the naming of the games is confusing.

Edit- nvm I’m wrong I read the text wrong, it may have actually been because I forgot about the delay BEFORE the super dash, so I was giving the opponent character too much height…… I was practicing rejumps for so long earlier but for the life of me couldn’t get the 5L after jumping again (after hitting the 5M as cell) in training mode (with auto recovery on)… But I’m wondering now if it was because I forgot to buffer/delay the air dash after the super dash? As cell, I was doing 236S, super dash, immediate air dash, 5M, jumping, then doing 5L (and as I mentioned, I could never get the 5L to hit.) so, does this set up not work, was i just not getting the timing and execution for the 5L down right, or was it because I was missing the delay/buffer between the super dash and air dash?

Good shit. The buffer helped a lot. This is one of those techniques where it helps to go to your locals instead of online cause so many content creators neglect to mention the buffer after the J.m

Steam Charts has exposed games than were running only on hype and BS marketing instead of making a good game or even a functioning product. No one wants to buy a game only for the rug to be pulled out and your short $60 dollars. Everyone remember "The Day Before"? Number one most wishlisted game on Steam and it was a scam on release. It was pulled down a mere four days after being released on Steam. DNF Duel suffers a problem that most fighting games have, new players can't learn the game without playing other people online but everyone else is an expert at this point so they will just get frustrated and quit. The solution that recent fighting games like SF6 and Tekken 8 have finally figured out is to have AI that actually plays like real players with different skill levels to choose from. Upcoming fighting games that wants to retain more players need to ditch the input reading punching bags AI of the 90s and put in teaching tools and AI that will teach new players how to play the game. You can't rely on Discord and a meager hardcore playerbase to keep your game from sinking.

You lost me at mortal kombat, people should know not waste there hard earned money and should know the game is dog shit based on the numbers. DATA MEANS SOMETHING just don’t be an asshole with the way you go about it.

I still 100% believe vanguard got too much with that last patch. Having a full screen confirm like that is wild.

this always makes me wonder, do they pull up steam charts for the games that they enjoy? but it would be so much better for everyone if people just stuck to what they like. sometimes the smaller games have some of the more welcoming communities but people are adversed to go to scenes that aren't popular for some reason

Hi y'all! Thank you all for taking the time to give your perspective on this topic whether you agree or disagree. Many of you that disagree are saying things that are pretty similar, so I just wanted to clear something up. This topic (and by extension this entire video) is about the community side of fighting games. Many of you have focused on steamcharts being a boon to consumers, and I even said in the video itself that the site itself actually isn't the problem. Yes, there will always be people (especially on the casual side of things) that just want to hop on whatever game, click matchmaking, and be done with it. I have no issue with that at all, preferences are a thing (though I would still argue that you won't get the entire picture looking SOLELY at steamcharts). If you want to choose to ignore tournaments, meetups, offlines, and discords, that is 100% your choice, but those things are, by definition, community (Which is what this vid is about). I'm not trying to convince everyone to drop their favorite game to play a smaller one, I am making the statement that even smaller games can have great communities behind them. This has been showcased many times throughout FG history, and it's why games are able to have resurgences despite being decades old in some cases. If we are talking about community, there is just so much you miss by looking at steamcharts and calling it a day, and that is the point I am trying to get across. Yes, in some cases, it requires a bit more effort to connect to people that play the game you want to play, but those options are (often) there. Choosing to ignore them and make posts implying that the game is dead or that nobody is playing, in my eyes, is disingenuous (and unfortunately becoming more and more common). Again, feel free to agree or disagree, all perspectives are valuable and we only gain understanding by having discussions like this, I'd like to engage with as many people as possible on topics like this as long it is in good faith!

You make good points but sadly no matter how you slice it some people just simply don't want to deal with games that are more niche in a genre that is already niche I can attest to this having tried games like KOF 2002, Blazblue Granblue (OG and Rising) and even skullgirls. I would join the discords and go out of my way to ask questions look for matches but ultimately it just wasn't a good time with either of these games especially KOF, OG granblue and Blazblue. A lot of the time when I played OG granblue I would ask for matches as ranked was empty and it would take hours for me to even get a reply let alone actually play someone, I would ask for games in the morning and have someone reply in the even and at that point I wouldn't want to play anymore. KOF was worse sadly . Another thing is alot of people don't live in the US and I'm sure alot of people arent even in spots where there is a scene for certain games. I wouldnt say that attests to there quality but just the user experience as much as I love games like KOF 2002 half the time I dont get matches and when I do I fight people who are just way above my level and doesn't make it fruitful, why do that when I can just hop on SF6 or Strive or tekken and have that variety I lose to good players but also have people closer to me to lose and win against too making that progression alot more stable and fruitful feeling. don't get me wrong I wish games like melty and even DNF to a degree wouldnt get dunked on for its smaller player base but alot of the time its just not worth to some simply because of the time investment and lack of player variety and these numbers help them to inform there choice and at least for me I would much rather just hop online and find matches that way instead of going through all that discord crap, there is a place for it and I think its good to an extent depending on the community but for some games its just not really nice to have to resort to that at least in my experiences.

I mean... Fighting Games come and Go every couple of Months or so. Even though, all things considered, FGs are the RTS of the current gen. Too big to prop up a Genre that is too hard to get into.

"Negativity" doesn't mean something is not true or shouldn't be listened to. Avoiding or discouraging negativity for the sake of it makes information harder to move or be found at all. Steam charts is a valid resource in deciding whether or not to buy or play a game, especially for a niche game in a niche genre where the experience is better with a numerous variety of players to match against. The reality is that if other games deliver where DNF doesn't, people don't show up. It doesn't deserve anything just because it's a fighting game.

Nah the only people who use steam charts are the niggas who live on twitter (like not use twitter but spend more time in twitter than playing the game).

My take on this is that it can be a useful tool but some people take it FAR too seriously. Some Fighting games are discord fighters now, this is not inherently a bad thing, it can actually be good for your development as a player being forced to interact with an actual community. Some people are hard stuck in plat making the same mistakes over and over and over because all they do is queue for ranked games and obsess about winning over improvement. Maybe for them, actually engaging with the community aspect would be beneficial, I feel like some peoples obsession with low player count is that they really don't want to interact with other people. The other thing is peoples idea of numbers is warped, last week on twitter people were ragging on Blazblue only having 258 players on Steam, for a fighting game this is a lot. For context, 3rd strike on Fightcade gets like 300+ players and is seen as a very active community, 258 isn't that far off at all, but is seen as a dead game. I do get wanting to play a game where this active numbers, or you can just switch off and queue for ranked with 0 effort, if you prefer this, absolutely understandable, the problem is how dismissive the people who do prefer this get about games that maybe have a smaller community, you get people posting "lmao bro this game has 200 players, dead game bro" and it's dumb, fighting games can go forever and are as dead as you want to make them, you think a game is cool? Play it, interact with the community. I see people saying they don't want to waste money but I feel like instead of "this game is dead why play" it should be "this game is a discord fighter but actually has a fairly decent sized and welcoming community, it's a game i'm interested in" because if everyone had the first attitude no one would still be playing games like 3rd strike. One of the coolest things about the FGC is games don't die because we don't let them. If you want to play a modern accessible game, 100% do , I do, but don't try and drag down smaller games.

Fighting games are very expensive specially if you want to pick up the season passes, so for example i want to buy Strive to have something apart from SF6 to play but the concern of investing on a fighting game only to strugglento find people to play with and wasting my money is a big concern to me.

Most fighting games are still played on console? Citation needed for that one chief, the vast majority of players in the EU at least are on PC.

The way I see it, FG playerbase being small is the exact reason not to splinter it too much. If the game has very few people playing it, that usually means it's either, not to mince words, not very good, or it's very old. Now, if it isn't good no big harm in nobody playing it, and if it's old it means you have to find people yourself and they've been at it for a decade so it's unlikely to be a good newcomer experience. I mean, there's nothing wrong with being sentimental, I'm just trying to be realistic here.

imagine paying 30 bucks for dnf duel and you cant find a single match it helps consumers

Jesus christ make your point already

right like people won't give games a chance anymore, kinda makes sense with there being too many games competing for your attention though especially if you have limited fg time

There’s nothing wrong with using Steam Charts that way. Someone made a bold statement about DNF on Twitter, and someone else countered it with actual numbers. We’re not in the ’90s anymore-player count matters to both consumers and developers. Today, numbers are everything. Companies use them to decide if a game is worth maintaining, just as players use them to decide if a game is worth buying. Imagine spending money on a game, only to find there’s no one to play with online. That would be a waste. Steam Charts help prevent that.

While you do have a point about game being alive even tho the steamchart show otherwise, but not everyone want to join a discord just to get someone to play with. There are people like me who exclusively play fighting game online, never went to community just to play with other people, and never intend to join any tournament local or online. So yeah in my case steamchart play a lot part of deciding which game to buy. Saying this website is harming fgc community it's a bit of a stretch for a title, it simply the issue for each fgc community comparing each other game lol.

I really liked DNF duel...

Great video bro. Im deff guilty of hopping on steam charts and letting that base my decisions on what fighting game i should be playing. But to be real all i wanna do is play bbcf.

I’m gonna play the game that gives me instant matches and smooth connections. I only have so much time in the day and it’s just not worth playing a game with 50 active users and 45 of them have a few hundred hours logged.

i agree with this

I can't promise I'm number seven of nine, but I might be one of the 18.

I want to play DNF Duel. 😢 EDIT: I posted this before you mentioned it. 😂 The steam charts are pretty correct. 0 player lobbies. Ranked matches take 30+ minutes to find a match at high rank. Every. Match. On Steam and PS5. Im okay with being one of the 50 of us. 😂

lmao the cope is off the charts.

Steamcharts isn't even the good stat tracking website, steamdb is the one you're supposed to use. It even shows you how often the devvs update their pre-release builds.

Man i feel like steam charts did have an effect on my purchase decisions I wanted to get into fighting games. Purchased grandblue rising. Had 2 matches and the connection was not so great and it took a lil time for matches to start. Googled steam charts and i saw that the game wasnt doing so hot so i asked for a reimburse and bought sf6 as it had the biggest playerbase at the time before tekken 8 release. Ofc everything felt better because i thought this game was alive and grandblue wasnt. I enjoyed sf6 as a whole too regardless of this. It was a nice introduction getting into masters in this game as a new player. I bought grandblue on sale the other day and its pretty good and im enjoying it a lot. Its crazy how I didnt give it a chance because steam charts made me feel like it was a dead game.

I've enjoined my time with Dragon Knight. Gameplay is solid, music - even better. The best part is longer fights. Strive lost me 'cause some rounds may last 8-9 seconds. DNF Duel is much closer to BB in that regard. But Swift Master was just diabolical and balance patches were none. After 4 month (I think) I just gave up.

The amount of unfixable damage steamcharts have done to the FGC needs to be studied

i think its gaming in general like the dragon age shit. "oh look it didnt crack 100,000 there for its bad and under preformed " like what?🤷‍♀

I play on PlayStation and use Steam charts as a data point for purchasing a fighting game. I am a casual players so this may (obviously not 100%) help indicate if casuals are still playing the game. This doesn’t mean the game is dead but more gives me an idea of my experience. There are people still playing older fighting games but this usually requires discord. Modern games have cross play so I am less worried about these games. I have responsibilities so I don’t have all day to play online. If I have to wait 5 minutes to find a match I usually quit and play something else.

Using a SteamCharts screenshot tells me more about you than the game. Thanks for the video!

Video in a nutshell: Anime fighting game player crashes out and copes for 20 minutes and 34 seconds🤣🤣

I hate every time I see people using steam charts as hard evidence of a game being dead. Stupid for any game but, as you mentioned, it's especially disingenuous for fighting games. Great convo as usual, hope these start getting more traction in the FGC. Gotta get Max to react to one or something lol

I bought the game and then gave like 4 of my friends that f2p exploit they havent fixed lol

To preface, I don't play this game. I wanted to, but it's not for me. I ran onto vanilla late in its life and the DLC was quite the turn off so I said no thanks. The gameplay, the knuckle-biting neutral was awesome to me and fun to watch. With the announcement of Rising, it seemed like a great time to jump in. Only it wasn't. I'm so glad this had a free version because it saved me money. Rising is basically just wearing the skin of the vanilla game in my opinion. The gameplay is so different that it is a huge turn off. I never even played to the point of meta complaints. For me, without going into fine detail, the brave point system is ill-conceived. The game gives so much meter that there's almost no point I didn't just expect to have meter to do my attacks. One of the worst offenders is the button input reader. It's so bad that I was getting SBA or DPs off single 236 inputs. Sure, sure, use the easy inputs....no thanks. There's other stuff like almost no grounded overheads and accidentally mashing out of grabs consistently that made the game feel incredibly dull, too. This plays so different from vanilla that I wonder why those players stuck around(if they did). I couldn't get into this at all. I'd buy stuff for vanilla right now but they never put it on sale anymore! Oh, and I couldn't use my standard nickname because it had a "bad word" in it. The netcode is solid and it's still one of the most amazing looking games I've seen in a while. Kudos to the people who enjoy Rising. To address some other stuff said, I don't have the time to play more than one game if even that. With how fast things are updated, I do not want to put time in just to have it washed away when I only had a tenuous grasp on things in the first place. It heavily discourages playing fighters at all with this constant need to update and balance. Playing multiple modern games is a waste of time, literally(this isn't directed at any specific game). Older games are set in stone for the most part and I'd argue are far better investments of people's time. I don't watch any content creators other than tournaments sometimes. That's how I saw this video! Stuff that exists outside the games is largely irrelevant to me. Lastly, I wish DNF didn't get dumped on so hard. That is one of the most exciting games to watch and play.

#ThankYou #DNFDuel 🙏♥️

Devs did a really poor job with balancing the game at the beginning. People complained about 66L since beta, Nier was absolutely obnoxious for months. Then it was 2B, then it was Batrix, then they left Belial untouched, buffed Lucillius and nerfed Yuel like what the hell? I imagine a lot of players left because some matchups just felt too unfair. You can't be so sloppy with the balance when your game is so niche.

One of the best and most fun fighting games to come out in recent years. Game is good and hopefully something happens for it to grow

I've been play GBVSR for the last month near daily. I've got to say; this game has become a fighter I can enjoy after going through a patch of not knowing what FG I'd play next. Yes, I got the game because of 2B, but I am now interested in play others in the cast. Namely Charlotta atm. GB has helped me find a decent community that feels welcoming to be in. I've made several new friends because of it, I fight high level players to improve and it's encouraging to grow. This game has also been a motivator for me to overcome a lot of my anxiety playing others online and meeting new people who enjoy a similar interest. My thirst for improvement brings me back to GB daily. It's almost as if i'm addicted. Though, I can't help but notice that I want to participate in offline tournaments in the midwest (specifically my state). I actually wouldn't know where to find locals for this title as I hear the scene in my state is dedicated, but I haven't located such. Maybe I wouldn't know where to look or ask. I am open insight on that as I want to support the community and help it flourish. This game has to much potential within the greatness it already brings. But it's a slow burn with this one and that's okay. We just gotta come together and build it up!

Vikala revived my love for this game..., because it means i dont take everything too serious