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Allen Cynthia Jones Eric Thomas Kenneth

Loved the overall story, but there are glaring flaws in how it's told which feel terribly out of place with what we had before. It felt in some spots like they changed up things last minute. In particular the story we got with Bakool Ja Ja was like, something here does not feel like it fits. And Zoraal Ja felt even worse. Sphene however I fully understood and worked for me.

I see jesse and endy really focus on sphene and her crown, if you remember sphene's crown is also a unique memory storage and we don't know the full function of it yet. However i think going forward the story is going to heavily deal with the concept of loss/reincarnation/souls. As Azem and many other of the convocation can reincarnate with what we seen of loghrif(gaia) and fandaniel, the concept of dealing with loss after we've dealt with despair because there needs to be a road to move on, and the fact are souls memories truly wiped after aetherial sea like solution 9's process that we've been painstakingly showed in minute detail, or is there memories etched onto the souls that cannot be dispelled like gaia's? what does that mean for the 13th where memories are gone even if you cannot die? These are very irl philosophical musings for thousands of years as ffxiv likes to tackle these grounded elements such as a fall of theocracy like ishgard. ultimately if sphene's memories are etched onto the crown but the soul has been reincarnated... imagine what they could do with an actual garnet that's reincarnation of sphene, and the crown acts like a memory restoration like mitron was for gaia. I think we are about to dive into some very deeply uncomfortable but meaningful territories in terms of story writing, and don't forget elidibus mysterious ending scene. side note living memory felt like the farplane of FFX, not the same but similar dynamic of the living being able to interact with the dead in a way, remember in side quests they said the living used to also lived with the living memories in the golden city.

This was so entertaining and I love how it made suggestions on how things could have been handled differently!

my wild theory: original Sphene was a reflection of Azem and was aetherically the only able person in that reflection to operate the dimension travel crystal. For this reason her soul/memory was preserved. It was stated that preservation was working on controlling the crystal, what better way than making a program/artifical human interface'?

5:39 "Give it a minute."

I been thinking for awhile on how DT should be "fix". Of course not rewritten the whole thing, the story still need to largely hit the same beat. And I came to the conclusion that Wuk Lamat's and Zoraal Ja's personality should be switched and Almost anything else can stay the same. We still be helping Wuk to be Dawnservant, but not on her behest initially this time. Instead, Erenville will be the one to request us helping her to increase the odd of Zoraal Ja not taking the throne. The journey will be about self-discovery for Wuk to help her love herself and her nation. Erenville can also be her mouthpiece early on and increase his screen time with us. As for Zoraal Ja. If we give him Wuk's personality then he is pretty much Sphene, invading other lands for resources and all.

I'm just remembering now, Krile is originally from the 9th Reflection. So who is Source Krile? Have we met them? Do they exist? I feel like if Krile were to merge with her Source counterpart, the Source version might take precedent and we would lose the Krile we know. The only thing I can think of is that Source Krile died sometime in the 20 years that our Krile has been on the Source, and instead of reincarnating, Source Krile was just slowly over time pulled in by the Krile we know, and they merged unknowingly where the living person took precedent and became the primary personality.

I've heard a theory where preservation could have been garland ironworks from the timeline where the 8th umbral calamity happens

I’m still entirely invested in the theory that we are going to get the real Ultima as a major villain, and that they were the one that introduced auracite to the world. The High Seraph from the Ivalice raids was a summon based on the memories of that entity.

I'm glad I only watched the launched trailer once at launch and forgot what was in it by the time the expansion came out. I feel it left more suprised for the moment in game. For the next expansion I totally intend to skip the launch trailer completely. I might even try to avoid zone screenshots and the other stuff as well to try and go into it as blind as possible.

Gonzalez Steven Smith Scott Perez Mark

Chat was spamming the drinking emote everytime we heard meracydia 😂😂

There should be 2 conflicts: Koana vs Wuklamat (different approaches to unite people) and Zooral Ja vs Bakool Ja Ja (is being child of the ruler more improtant than being the blessed siblings). Not Wuklamat vs everyone.

I like alot of this talk but man was the talking about Zarool ja way off the mark. He was always a bad guy. He was the leader of what was essentially the army who wanted to lead an army to conquer Garlemald if he won and to have war. He dodnt have a heel turn as implied by Jesse. Hes always been evil and out for himself. Krile even sensed his anger through the echo and was so terrified that she couldnt speak. His 30 year transformation was not surprising as he was already a cold ruthless killer who was on a mission for conquest.

There is nothing beyond the binary

I finally finished through the video. Both of you did an amazing job and it was really fun listening to you. Hope you do something like this again. I remember going through the level 97 quest and wishing we would meet one of our reflections who would then turn out to be evil. Funny that Jesse's idea went into a similar direction. I was a little bit disappointed we didn't get more of that in dawntrail. Our existence wasn't acknowledged at all. I would have been happy with just a little bit more, you know. I appreciated you pointing out the stories flaws but still diving into its future potential. Helped me getting my mind off of the disappointing parts a bit even though I still remain worried about the future writing quality. Now I want to order the Encyclopaedia Eorzea.

This was great, thank you!

FFXIV's next villain has already been revealed - th-cam.com/video/jeaJBQBvsMA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EloNJWLDW96J2qUm

I wish CCs would stop pushing this narrative that people needed their WoL to be the center of attention in order to enjoy DT. No one actually said this or believes this, and if you think anyone did, then start posting your receipts. Btw, no, the ones of people on the official forums who give the worst opinions possible do not equate to the 20+ million accounts who have played FFXIV. 6.55 made it clear that the focus wasn't entirely going to be on our character. Oh and 'I never said that', yes, you said that people didn't like their WoL being a background character, that it was a 'tough pill to swallow'. In other words, they (supposedly) wanted their WoL to be a bigger focus, correct? Regardless, the problems with DT are multifaceted, and require a lot more nuance than just the handwaving you do.

One aspect of the story I find fitting considering my role at work as of recently, mentoring someone and guiding them isn't easy, especially as you try to get them to grow and become independent. Its very easy to simply take over and do the task for them but by doing so, they can become dependent on you to fix their issues. That aspect of the story seems to follow the issues first brought up in the Dark Knight class quests where Frey finds it frustrating that people become too dependent on you to solve their problems for them. Fitting that Ishikawa wrote that class quest series.

1:21:40 You can also flip it upside down and it kinda looks like the crown, even with the little diamond on the bottom.

Went into DT like this is a vacation. I just want to explore and stuff. Know some stuff is going to happen, but I didn't have any real expectations. Came out of the experience pretty happy.

Estinien: SAME FEELS BRO, best part of DT

@37:22 Jesse, are you saying we're Merlin in Sword and the Stone?

Hey Guys, you know what would be fun? Going to a discussion Video that id positive/ Open minder about DT and Copy pasting the Same Takes that have been mindlessly repeated ad nauseum into the comment section! Your opinion has been heard. Loud and clear, again and again so kindly move Back to your Echo Chambers or shut Up. This whole Community ist a Joke. The whole Great Community BTW meme IS Just that. A meme. Self important brats that only act nice If you agree to exactly the Same tastes everyone Else has. You Had Problems with Heavenswards msq? "Clearly you don't get the nuances of it's complex storytelling!" You Like Stormblood msq?" You must Not Like good writing than!" You Like DT for it's Future Setup and Like Wuk Lamat despite the flaws in it's Pacing?:" You're Just a Yoshi P fanboy that can't think for himself!" Was ist so hard to actualy Not shout your whinging into the Ether? The best Thing for my mental health would He that all Of you Salty Sandras Just Switch MMO's and leave this Game entirely, because at this Point interaction with terminally Online League of Legends Players as a Jungle noob is more welcoming than this so called great Community. Interacting with this fambase was the worst mistake I ever made

Bruh, ardbert giving you his strength, is the first time one of azems power has returned to you, him being in all the custscenes is a reflection of you in those situations 😮😮😮😮

The devs can have every good reason in the world to make the choices they did. If it is not fun or entertaining then it is worthless and should not have been done.

31:54 see I get that there are probably SOME people that expected that but I think it's disingenuous to anchor an argument that "people" as a collective expected that. I believe the grand majority of people who are invested in 14's story expected the stakes (and even wanted it, myself included) to be very very low as this is the start of a new journey. People's problems with the MSQ structure, pacing, storytelling, and lore implications go well beyond "well just don't expect a world ending threat everytime". Even with the Zero patch quests I don't think you can argue people didn't like it because the stakes were low. Stakes can be low and still provide an engaging story, they are not mutually exclusive

I think there's a misunderstanding about Wuk Lamatt in S9, the reason why she's always friendly with Sphene isn't because she trusts her, in fact she says as much, but it's a way to not show her hand yet, aka the alliance with Thavnair thanks to Koana's deals. In a way Wuk Lamatt in heritage found is showing her growth compared to her early scenes in the story where her eagerness to divulge informations got her in alot of troubles. We can agree that it's not well divulged though

It's nice hearing a conversation about Dawntrail that isn't so negatively tinted. Really appreciate this, because I had a grand old time and I'm honestly lookin' forward to a new game plus run of Dawntrail to pick apart more details.

I had one more thought overnight. Endy you kep calling the key an hourglass. I just don't see it personally. The outer shape very much appears to be a cup and the interior crystal looks to me like a single helix. Not only is that what it looks like to me, be the symbolism of the helix representing growth, resiliance and change seems very fitting to be connected to Azem.

I've largely tuned out of FFXIV content creation the last month because it's just exhausting, but this was a great talk. Hope y'all get a chance to do it again!

I found Lamaty'i endearing, like my WoL's protégé. dungeons and music for Dawntrail were excellent! I want the scions to fall back and we make new pal's 🖖

At the beginning of this conversation, I was a little worried that this would be almost all positive on Dawntrail, and/or that they would just talk about the things that angry people on the Internet like to be mad about (Wuk Lamat's voice actor, not living up to Endwalker because of course it didn't, etc.), but ultimately, this is the most accurate conversation I've heard yet relative to my own experience. In particular, they summed up my feelings on Zoraal Ja and Sareel Ja perfectly. It feels to me like there were a bunch of things that they were more concerned about than carefully writing a story, like trying to establish rich history to a new zone, drawing parallels & connections to South American cultures, paying homage to FFIX--all good things, don't get me wrong, but whatever their priorities were, it resulted in a bunch of cool lead-ups with no payoff, and a bunch of poorly-executed plotlines. That said, while it didn't live up to my standards from several angles, it exceeded them in others, leaving me with a bittersweet taste in my mouth, and at the end of the day I did have fun.

58:23, let's not forget that Azem instructed Themis/Elidibus to wait for WoL's arrival

55:57 The cup is made of electrope in order to harness the power of the crystal that is inside The milalas only had the crystal when they traveled from source to Alexandria/9th shard

It'd be hilarious if the people of Meracydia would be so akin to the people of Bevelle as they make the next expansion a love letter to FF X. However, an interview with Yoshi-P hinting about also the rest of Hingashi where we could take on the mantle of the next shogun is very tempting as well! So many possibilities so many things to cook in the kitchen for the next expansion for sure!

The thing with Zoraal Ja to me is that he DIDNT change from the 30 year time skip (for him), he just changed which venue he'd apply his philosophy through (Tural at first if he became dawnservant.. Alexandria after that failed)

So, just by calling out the obvious pacing issues that the msq has, we are antis? who are the haters here?

It was nice to listen to a measured discussion about DT MSQ. There were so many problems with it but a lot of good stuff in there as well. I think the hardest part for me was that my WoL felt so inconsequential. I enjoyed being an older sibling to Wuk in the first half but from mid point on the WoL and Scions should have taken center stage. It really made me empathize with what it must have been like for Ardbert to just sit there as a ghost. I am excited for what comes next though because Azem's mcguffin chalice could lead us anywhere. Please lord and savior yoshiP, let me go back to the 13th to hang out with goth gf.

On the topic of "showing not telling" there's a lot of Zoraal Ja's characterization that IS shown to us but not told. Of the 3 promised siblings, he is the most immature, the one who grows the least. He tries too hard to fill the giant 2-headed shoes his own fathers left him, and resents himself whenever he cannot fill them on his own. And when we meet him, that self resentment is already at boiling point. There's are clues throughout but some of the biggest ones are his insistence on doing everything alone. Even with Sareel Ja accompanying him, he insists on everything being done according to his design. I believe betraying Sareel Ja was always his intention, because of all his talk about "seizing/earning etc etc" by his own hand. He resents and pushes away his child because he hasn't accomplished a legacy for himself that would live up to his own standards, and the sees too much of himself in Gulool Ja. He finally accepts his son only on his deathbed, giving him to keys to his own "kingdom", the remains of the legacy he tried to build. A huge hint as to the inner workings of his mind is his final transformed form in combat, when he takes on a body like a blessed sibling but only a stump where the head of reason should be. He always wanted to be like his own father, but instead he's a thing that should never have been possible. His own existence is essentially an impossibility, and that's a weight he's always carried with him, even after 30 years. There's a FF14 style tragic villain there if you're willing to look for the signs.

I'm pretty sure a future expansion will have us use the hourglass' ability to fuse worlds to fuse the 1st and 13th to create an expanded 1st for use to adventure on and discover something that was phased out of the 13th when it failed. Plus, unless Zero or original Golbez are an Azem shard, we'll need to find the who we were in the 13th, and the best way to bring it back into balance is by combining the world of darkness with the world of light.

I love the chemistry you two have with each other. It's a great time, glad I caught this in my recommends.

I am forever bitter with YoshiP and the team for not having VA for the Lyna - Exarch exhange before climbing the tower. Lynas VA was the best in the expansion and to not have thay voiced, hurts my soul everh time I come get some feels from the 5.3

I love your idea of the Azem-gers, but more specifically of the "evil" shard of Azem. The kind who have had "I'll kill your god even if I don't have to" as the tamer dialogue options throughout their story, who would have been born in a Garlean/Allag like society, used as only a weapon against enemies, who would be exactly as Zenos saw the WoL, with their benevolence eroded over years and years of a life in these circumstances.

in regards to patches being "too predictable" or "too formulaic", i don't find knowing that a certain type of content is coming, detracts from it. I see it the same way as watching a hero's journey film, yea i know there are certain scenario's that'll be ticked, such as betrayal, defeat, etc, but for me the fun is the "how" they hit those check boxes.

Jesse really should sit down and chat with the Synodic Scribe sometime. The two could have a banger video like this one for lore stuff!

*I'll be honest. I get Jesse's point about being the hero; doesn't change the fact that I didn't feel like the hero. I felt like a cardboard cutout of the WoL Wuk Lamat carried around with herself. My WoL was ARR Minfilia but with less to do, less agency, less opinions and less screentime.* To put it short: Good ideas and intentions are worth nothing if you can't execute them - in this case - at all. To sell the inspiring hero more is needed than nods and fistpumps and that's if the WoL did even that much. DT could have happend without us and I wish it had. PS: I apologize that I only made it to the 40min mark, but that was my limit to be bothered to listen to anything DT, despite you two being really fun to listen to. Like everything pre DT is sweet sweet "nectar" to a vampire like me, anything DT is like if someone took a gigantic bucket full of holy water and filled it with bags of garlic. It doesn't kill me outright, but there comes a point when the suffering is just too much.

Game designers may not receive the message and could end up producing another low-quality expansion because you approached the issue too positively. You need to learn to criticize where criticism is due. The problem with the game is not our minor role. It's the low-quality writing and the underdeveloped game mechanics, with content being produced using the same mechanics for years.