Germany's New KF51 Panther Tank | The Spearhead of a New Generation?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- For over four decades, the concept of the European Main Battle Tank has been dominated by the Leopard 2, to the point where it's almost impossible to imagine a world in which this legend no longer serves on the battlefield. Rheinmetall however appear to feel differently, unveiling their KF 51 Panther MBT concept at Eurosatory in June of 2022.
Equipped with an autoloading 130mm smoothbore main gun, next generation sensor suites and C4I systems, and undoubtedly the most capable layered defence system to ever exist, the KF 51, should it enter service today, could be the most powerful and capable tank ever built. However, it may not be quite "ready" yet... ...
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Thanks 'Tog for sending in a bit of "fan mail", check out his channel here: / pilotphotog
Also be sure to check out the episode of this series we made for the Challenger 3 last year: • Challenger 3 | Britain...
and our guide to tank ammunition types here: • A Guide to Tank Ammo |...
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I did not mean to take such a long break this time. Honestly it seems like literally everything that could possibly go wrong in making videos lately... HAS gone wrong. From PC and internet issues, to construction work in our building, to my falling very sick for several months and being unable to talk or get much in the way of good work done... Yeah, the last six months have been a disaster! I'm completely okay now, though I have lost a lot of weight recently and am struggling a little, but I should be able to get the gears of the Armor Cast machine running up to speed again, and am hoping to stick to near-weekly uploads for most of this year!
Thanks for sticking with me guys, hope it was worth the wait!
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With the amount of new technology on this tank, one must pray to the Omnissiah for it to all work!
I see what you did there
Is the German the modern equivalent to the mechanicus?
And it still doesn't have as much DAKKA as a Baneblade.
given our track record, it probably has a particularly angry machine spirit.
Pray to the Omnissiah!!! I can feel the machine spirit calling to me!
If the new Panther is already such a monstrosity, I wonder just how large the new Tiger tank is going to be.
Let's not think about that and let the German army design new tanks for Ukraine and if the modern variation of the tiger is better than the modern variation of the panther, didn't that could theoretically mean that the new version could shoot through some armour of battleships
@@marshthecanadian9832 I'm sure the german army will gladly accept payment-in-kind, preferably 18 yrs old and blonde.
@@pj_ytmt-123 i feel Bad for laughing so hard ON this as a german
lmaoooo
The Panther is actually smaller and lighter than the Leopard 2.
It was my experience as an armor crewman in central Germany (Fulda Gap and East German border) there are very few place where one has line of sight of more than 2 or 3 klicks. The German countryside is often heavily wooded, rolling terrain, with limit sight distance. This may not be the case in the northern plains (I don't know, never trained there), but in much of central Europe a gun with an effective range greater than the advertised 3.5 klicks is probably a luxury.
Very true, but vehicles like this are also exported all around the world. In Turkey for example, Leopard 2s could potentially have been firing out MUCH further than they could in the rolling, wooded terrain of central Europe. In the Gulf War, Challenger 1 was able to surpass 5km, and there's no reason to suspect M1A1 Abrams could not have done the same.
The same is true for much of Asia and Scandinavia, where mountainous terrain can, rather than BLOCKING visibility, actually put you high enough to be firing from one mountain ridge across to another! Those distances can easily reach 5km.
In other words, I agree it is absolutely a luxury, but one that CAN be very useful depending on who ends up using the tank and where in the world it goes.
In addition to Armor Cast's reply, I'll also say that these tanks are probably made for particular battlefields, such as eastern Europe, the mid east and whatever other areas are expected to be future battlefields.
One benefit of larger rounds is they can be improved upon when it comes to smart munitions and hybrid projectiles. You can have a lot different varieties of warheads and such from what I understand.
Also a 130mm basically future proofs the tank. Hear the US was jostling with having the ability to have a 140mm.
I'll agree with you there, but the ability to really reach out there in the Gulf was a huge blessing.
Longest tank on tank kill 3.1 miles by a British Challenger rifled barrel gun
What you failed to mention is that this is probably the best analysis out there on this tank
My left ear is really happy that you reached 100k subs 7 months ago, my right ear is sad it couldn't be part of the celebration!
lmao
I think the big idea of unmanned turrets being beneficial are that a smaller, lighter turret can be created, while keeping the same level of armor. That weight can then be used elsewhere for extra armor, fuel, modern electronics and targeting systems, and/or active protection systems. How exactly that would specifically work in practice is more subject to caveats.
It would hurt commanders environmental awareness to much i think. The top of the top of turret gives the commander 360 degrees view from higher up in a way that camera systems just can't.
I don't see this becomming a standard in nato designs.
@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 This could change when they implement helmet mounted displays for the crew as it's common for helicopter pilots. Pretty much like VR goggles.
Tanks fighting in hull-down positions would see an even greater improvement in crew protection. If only the turret can be seen, then only the turret can be hit, and if the crew isn't in the turret then you can't really kill the crew when they're in a hull down position. The tank can still be destroyed but crew is extremely well protected.
@@geerdi5222 Helicopter pilots are not activly on the ground fighting. Have rockets shown at you while enemies are closeby and you are wearing shit over your eyes sound like the perfect way to make your soldiers panic.
Wouldn't you still want the turret equally armored to because a shattered turret equals a useless tank?
I really enjoyed you stating your experience prior to your presentation. I think more channels should do this. Good video, looking forward to watching more of your content!
This KF51... isn't just a main battle tank...as I notice at the back and front... it's like a sports car...for sure this beast runs like a sports car... good job Rheinmetall👍
Great video! Amazing analysis of the available information. I agree with you about the eventual extinction of the Leopard 2 and Abrams (as sad as it will be because I served on M1IP and A1's).
Now as far as what you were saying about the hull being less armored than the turret. I can tell you the M1 was designed for a defensive war in western Europe. We were not planning on offensive operations as much. So the plan was to try and be engaging in hull down or meeting engagements.
I do have some concerns about Abrams X I will post when you release that video.
Have a great day!!
Always a pleasure to have vets in the channel! Abrams X is an interesting one, but at least in that case it is PURELY designed as a concept demonstration piece, while KF51 is actually designed with the intention of securing a contract by 2025. In other words, they could go as crazy as they liked with Abrams X, but Panther had a higher realistic standard to keep to... ... I'm not sure it succeeded
I don’t think the US will ever field hundreds of manned M-1 MBT replacements. The future belongs to AI-enhanced drones and robots.
the backwardscompatibility of the turret is a smart move in my opinion. makes upgrading existing tanks possible and adding new tanks to the fleet wont be a logistical nightmare as they had in ww2
Warhammer 40k music in the backround?
Epic!
Mechanicus, specifically "Children of the Omnissiah"
Guillaume David
dude that 40k music in the background fits perfectly, nice video also btw, keep it up mate
Children of the omnissiah is probably the best 40k song ever
i'm not the only one who noticed it? fuck yeah
@@felixhamel1853 The whole Mechanicus game soundtrack by Guillaume David is sublime.
I like the fact that despite your 'enthusiast' credentials, you provide a detailed factual analysis that exceeds many 'experts'!
"Alright troops" That phrase sends shivers down my spine and brings up so many memories
Welcome back! :)
Cheers lad!
Very cool! This channel must be a reliable source that won't spread misinformation based on game footage whatsoever.
good to hear you are feeling better. thanks for the info on the k51and keep up the fantastic work
This thing just looks like a monster. I love the bigger gun… even if it is redundant or unnecessary. The potential ability to control a reaper drone from the fourth position is just insane if it can do that. The recon drones are a huge step and the fact that it can data link will make it possibly able to fire at area targets (maybe precision as well?) from beyond visual range based on targeting data from a drone or forward deployed friendly asset. It really does seem like this is truly the next gen tank.
So a tank with aimbot and wallhack? Guess real life has no ban hammer.
Seing that tanks are entering a new generation as I am studying to get to design some, really bring me joy
Great deep dive into the KF51. While on the topic of next gen Main Battle Tanks; I have seen plenty of videos about next gen fighter jets, including what the generations mean, what technologies are persued, their impact, etc. However there doesn't seem to be many, if any, videos taking a step back from specific tanks, prototypes or concepts and talking about all the near future technologies that are being looked at for next gen tanks. Nor what their advantages, drawbacks or impact onto the battlefield could be. Perhaps this could be a topic for a next video? Looking forward to your future videos!
Definitely going to be a topic in A future video, won't be the next one, will likely end up being pushed to early March
Closest I have seen is one by Alpha Heavy Gamer of "Is the Tank Dead?"
Why don't tankers get a cool helmet like pilots that let's them "see through" the vehicle.
@@CharliMorganMusic Israeli Iron Vision helmet.
And if everybody buys them. Like there are bits and pieces for the Eurofighter that this or that country didn't order.
With some experts claiming the original panther to be the first mbt this makes it really come full circle
Hungary has announced the will produce these in 2025. However it will use the L55A1 120mm, not the 130mm.
Your research, clear writing and diction...are more than enough to make you a near expert. Good show.Congrats on the 100K Marker..
He is back!!
Congratulations! You deserve it, your videos are always some of my favorites, and fuel my passion for armored and aerial warfare alike.
This thing is a sci-fi tank, pure and simple. It looks like something I'd seen in Command and Conquer or Empire Earth, some futuristic super tank which does everything better and cooler. Even if it's just some proof of concept, test bed, or a massive publicity stunt, it's still fucking awesome.
@Fidd88 Did you watch the video? He talks about that specifically.
Modern ammunition (and armor, for that matter) doesn't deflect the same way as those rounds did in WWII. APFSDS loses its momentum because it deforms to a much greater degree on any non-penetrating impact, even an intense angle like that. It doesn't bounce up or down while holding the same shape, it basically shatters. The remaining small fragments wouldn't be able to penetrate the turret or hull.
@Fidd88 Did you watch the video at all?
Leopard 2 is already a beast, naming the KF51 "Panther" is an unterstatement
? panther is a legend and with a bit of luck this baby will be too. The name is a message, since the old one was a "russiankiller".
@@djneverblock7300 should have been called the Tiger
@@TH-camrAnalyst123 why tho?
Regarding the effective range of a tank's main gun, it's not limited only to the gun itself but also to the FCS system and the optics. There's always a tolerance in targeting accuracy regarding the sensors suite and the control system, for example 1 milimeter tolerance might be OK under 3 km range but over it this tolerance difference might make you hit a non-critical part of your target instead of the center of mass to destroy it.
Making improvements in these regards will also aid the new 130mm gun to be more precise. As a gross example, you could use the same exact gun in parallel with Cold War era optics and FCS system, but if you can't see the targets past 2km away or aim with enough precision, you'll never be able to aim at them and shoot them properly. Only if we talk about the resolution advances in thermal optics, modern systems are able to see the temperature difference between someone's nose and cheecks, compared to an '80s optic which would just show you a faint shape of a human warmer than his surrounding environment.
Some of these sensors and electronic systems do come with a drawback, though -they increase the complexity of the tank which adds up additional chances of failures, plus some of these systems are still pretty fragile and even if the tank is not damaged and can be operational, if you destroy these optics with a machine gun or even the shockwave of an explosion (or even cause the lenses to get misaligned), the tank will not be able to aim it's shots properly anymore.
As you people dont know, this tank already shared the name “Panther” with the WW2-era Panzer V
The Panther KF51 STC is a very advanced design. Praise be to the Omnissiah for providing this knowledge to all.
Wow many good and interesting points, the side comments about retrofitting f22s makes a ton of sense and I haven't heard that mentioned so concisely.
Germans... slaying competition in tank making since WW2. They are masters of armoured technology.
I appreciate the fact that u waited it shows that u actually care about the information being accurate love ur content
The Steel of a New Germany
I have heard the statement that the KF51 is NOT a next generation tank but rather the maximum you could squeeze out from the current generation. Is there any truth in this?
It really depends on what you define as "generations". There are no hard and fast rules on this, so it's up to interpretation. HOWEVER, most would call this a next gen tank design given its capabilities and its distinctions (lighter weight, new integrated active protection and advanced sensor suites, new gun and the capabilities THAT brings, etc.
Challenger 3 I would perhaps say is fair to call a current generation tank suped up to represent the absolute top of its gen, but KF51, along with Abrams X, should definitely count as "next gen".
Though I would be very keen to hear the arguments of why it ISN'T "next gen"
Omg someone has actually made his homework’s. Yes you are absolutely right.
The MGCS system (German-French tank project) will be the next true gen tank with an unmanned turret, 1 remotely controlled commanders station with a RMG .50, highly modular armor layout, auto-loader, ADS systems and SUPPOSEDLY fully remotely controllable oh I forgot another coaxial RMG .50…
Keen eye you got there !
Prost from Germany 🇩🇪
The thing is, that RM actually wants to be part of the MGCS program and provide the turret for that. However that seems unlikely, as KMW and Nexter fused and it now seems that RM gets left out completely. So I think this is their effort to get back into the selection process and find a way that they are being picked as the provider of the turret. I dont believe that the Bundeswehr will actually by the KF51 because they want to do their thing with the French in order to produce a greater amount and push down costs / make exports more attractive. Which means that the KF 51 will never be ordered in Germany and is thus quite unlikely to be exported/ ever actually be produced.
KF51 was made for export markets. German gov has been pretty open about MGCS being their next gen tank
The MGCS program is a clusterfuck. This french company (is it Nexter?) insists on putting a 140mm barrel on the tank while Rheinmetall wants to use a 130mm one on it. Sure, there is company politics here, RM makes the 130mm and Nexter wants to use the 140mm they make. The problem is that the 140mm barrel hasn't even been developed yet.
And the problem is that an important feature of a tank (dimensions of the turret?) is determined by the size of the barrel. So as long as this isn't clear, MGCS is just stuck not getting anywhere.
So I think Rheinmetall does multiple things at once here, freeing themselves of MGCS which they deem stuck/ in the wrong direction, proving their 130mm barrel, and probably what you said here
I don't think of the KF51 as a 'new tank'. Instead I think of it as a 'technology demonstrator for Leopard 2 upgrades'.
The Leopard 2 is an extremely popular tank and the Leopard 2 chassis used in various other tracked vehicles is even more popular.
If Rheinmetall manages to offer (and cleverly market) the 'KF51' as a 'cost efficient high tech turret upgrade' converting old outdated Leopard 2 tanks from the 1980s into a modern 'next generation battle tank', then this concept could really find a very significant market.
Using a Leopard 2 chassis can come with very significant cost savings for many armed forces already operating Leopard 2 tanks (and/or it's siblings).
Logistics, maintenance, repairs, all of these would barely change for the chassis of a KF51 at all. Only for the turret, the ammunition, and other upgraded capabilities would these change from a Leopard 2 to a KF51. So as a result this would be very comparable to them converting from an old Leopard 2A4 to new Leopard 2A7+.
Compare the cost of such conversions to the cost of introducing an entirely different brand new battle tank into service and you may see many potential NATO buyers interested in a KF51 simply as a means of looking to get the most bang for their buck, probably even more so for a 120mm KF51 style variant.
Let's also not completely forget that Germany has a history of being reluctant with allowing weapons exports of the latest and newest high tech systems. Submarines, tanks, guns whatever you look at, German manufacturers tend to sell export variants somewhat less capable than what the German Bundeswehr and the closest development partners themselves operate.
For German lawmakers a KF51 would be merely "an upgraded Leopard2", not an entirely new "Main Ground Combat System" MGCS Germany and France have teamed up to develop together. Exporting a KF51 as an 'upgrade package for already existing older Leopard 2 tanks' should be much less difficult and much less problematic for a German manufacturer such as Rheinmetall to realize than exporting an MGCS tank would be.
@@tomwoggle9411 I've been wondering if something like that could be the case as well. Also the KF51 would be available substantially sooner then the MGCS as well.
@@Caesim9 Rheinmetall is not part of MGCS in the first place
I must say that the KF51 looks beautiful.
Eh it looks kinda goofy
definitely subscribing, love your vids man!
Are you compiling information for the Abrams X concept tank?
Also, we're still owed an Abrams chapter of Your Favorite Tanks Sucks.😁
Like you said I the KF-51 as a tank has some shortcomings to fix. But I think as a concept its something that will definetely set the tone for future MBT's to come. It was about time someone made a tank for the modern networked battlefield that does more than just be firepower on wheels. Having the ability to launch drones and being a networked platform is something that will keep tanks relevant for decades to come.
I know for instance in my country (The Netherlands) we got rid of the Leopard 2's for a while because the consensus was that in the modern battlefield where things such as intellegence and small surgical operations are key, a tank simpley wouldn't fit in anymore. We have the tanks back now. But I think that a tank like the KF-51 would be very attractive for a small armored infantry like we have because it fulfills more roles than simply punching through enemy lines. It can actually support infantry and work together with other network centric platforms to get a better view of the battlefield.
I think we have to change the way we look at Main Battle Tanks.
Apparently that new land combat vehicle system the Germans and French work on together goes far beyond just developing a new MBT.
It seems they are developing a whole new family of specialized vehicles and the MBT is just one of them.
What they are envisioning is that you won't have tank platoons with 4 MBTs working together anymore, but instead "teams" or "packs" of several specialized vehicles.
Such a pack will probably contain something that resembles a MBT as a "dueling vehicle" specialized on destroying hard target enemy vehicles, one "NLOS" vehicle, some sort of self propelled howitzer or a launching platform for loitering ammunitions or kamikaze drones or both, a air defense and anti drone vehicle and a command vehicle which controls several recon drones and can perhaps remote control the other vehicles. It might also get a electronic warfare capability.
And then you can attach one or more Infantry Fighting Vehicles to such a pack for the anti infantry role and other specialized vehicles like recovery and engineering vehicles.
Such packs would kind of function like a vehicle version of special forces teams.
@@TrangleC The more modern combat we see, the more we realize that there's never a single solution. You have to be adaptable, and flexible in your role. Everything in modern combat has slowly started embodying this new perspective.
One other reason for the Dutch army was that the Dutch army has changed roles.
In the Cold War, the Netherlands was the second line of defense and thus our land forces were designed for taking on Warsaw Pact forces in convention combat.
Since then, however: the only relevant land territorial threat is Russia with Poland & Germany being our land buffer.
That means that our land forces have 2 roles: rapid deployment towards Poland just in case, and worldwide expeditionary warfare within NATO / coalition warfare.
As heavy MBT’s are not as strategically / operationally mobile, it makes more sense for the Dutch land forces to focus on forces with higher mobility to rapidly deploy to support heavy allied groundforces such as the tank-heavy German & Polish forces.
In other words: they place the tanks, and when shit hits the fan our IFV’s, air assault, infantry and special forces race towards them to support.
And in expeditionary operations, we have some artillery for firebases
Or, as I understand now, after all the info, from the last few years of modern warfare, no one has a clue where it will go, so they left options for future updates - additional post for the 4th crew member, if needed! Launch platform for some kind of drones or missiles if needed, or return to additional ammo, or fuel, or... if needed. Other things optional to add/replace..if needed... Just, no one knows where warfare will go, and what will be (if any) role for the MBT! So all options are open (MODULAR in modern language)... Maybe tanks will not be used as direct battle vehicles, but just to protect high ranking officers on the battlefield from sniper rifles and diversions, while they can observe battlegrounds from inside the new "tank", using modern senzors and drones...with driver, guard, and maybe even wife... With all the comfort that can offer, air condition, active and passive protection, high mobility, and all kinds of communication possibilities (on line games, tv, and SATCOM..) ;)
I just cannot understand why so harsh words versus Challenger 2 MBT? It is Challenging, as I already said, but keep for future historical evidence, not rush in, because "only fulls rush in..." ;)
This generation of tanks are so advanced it makes the tanks from famous sci-fi franchise obsolete
Never seen a video by you before, but your self-deprecating beginning ("I'm not an expert, just a military buff") hides a pretty extensive knowledge and experience in everything related to tanks.
Definitely an expert.
Thank you mate, your confidence (though I’m not sure it’s ENTIRELY correctly placed), means a lot.
I try to do my best, you can be sure of that 👍
The launcher module for loitering munitions/recon drones, that will use valuable main gun ammo space, looks more like something for a platoon/company commander version. It does make sense to have specialised variants within a company; variants that are indistinguishable from the outside.
To a degree, yes. Russia for example have dedicated “command” variants of their tanks in each battalion. But anything that doesn’t directly benefit, or even takes AWAY from, the ONE role the main battle tank is designed for… is not smart to include. Tanks are already too big and heavy, and every measure to reduce their size and weight is important. The inclusion of drones and systems that another, dedicated vehicle in the regiment could be operating… is not a good idea.
@@ArmorCast A separate, dedicated vehicle would require more personnel and logistics to the unit though. At the very minimum, the drone car would need a driver and a drone operator while the tank already has a driver installed. If you have 150 men in total, having to divert more of them to driving might not be the most efficient use of manpower.
As always, in the end it's always a compromise between different and often contradicting demands and desires.
@@ArmorCast Could a modified IFV being used as the basis of a _drone carrier_ be a good concept?
Ditch the infantry capacity (and mission profile) and instead have launchers and resupply for drones and the operators/pilots sitting inside at control stations in the space that was formerly for carrying the troops.
Using a existing IFV hull has both development cost and in field logistics benifits, and also means that enemy forces can't readily identify it as a drone "mothership" and thus a priority target, especially if it's accompanying other IFV's.
The autocannon also provides it with good personal defence against a wide range of threats, assuming that enemy MBT's will either be dealt with by its own anti tank Kamikaze Drones or by friendly MBT's (or FO artillery) that are data linked - see below.
The IFV autocannon will be the bane of enemy infantry that have been spotted by its drones, especially if airburst range data can be automatically fed in.
And being the standard IFV it will be able to keep up with the other armour and do dedicated overwatch while the "heavy MBT" does the job it's optimised for.
However a small _long endurance_ helicopter drone optimised for a MBT does make sense just for situational awareness in both Tank vs Tank battles and in spotting anti tank infantry that could ambush the MBT.
But leave launching and controlling the attack drones to a dedicated vehicle that isn't on the tip of the spear, but following close behind.
@@johanmetreus1268 Apparently that new land combat vehicle system the Germans and French work on together goes far beyond just developing a new MBT.
It seems they are developing a whole new family of specialized vehicles and the MBT is just one of them.
What they are envisioning is that you won't have tank platoons with 4 MBTs working together anymore, but instead "teams" or "packs" of several specialized vehicles.
Such a pack will probably contain something that resembles a MBT as a "dueling vehicle" specialized on destroying hard target enemy vehicles, one "NLOS" vehicle, some sort of self propelled howitzer or a launching platform for loitering ammunitions or kamikaze drones or both, a air defense and anti drone vehicle and a command vehicle which controls several recon drones and can perhaps remote control the other vehicles. It might also get a electronic warfare capability.
And then you can attach one or more Infantry Fighting Vehicles to such a pack for the anti infantry role and other specialized vehicles like recovery and engineering vehicles.
Such packs would kind of function like a vehicle version of special forces teams.
I can see the rationale behind reducing the ammo capacity to add increased functionality. If RM has made studies that suggest that in 90% of cases, the tank wouldn't even touch the discarded 50% ammo, then cutting it out and replacing it with a system that provides both utility and longer range kill options seems like a reasonable idea. Additionally, adding the launcher makes it easier to upgrade to some future type of missile that might be developed.
as a former M1 tanker and desert storm veteran i really enjoyed this video.
Always a pleasure to have combat vets commenting here! Thanks mate
You really put children of the omnissiah in this video I had no idea you were so based and cultured
36:20
It takes 6 months to replace a tank.
It takes 20 years to replace a crewman.
You're gonna be replacing a lot more of both if you just make your vehicles less effective from the get-go
Wait a minute.... I've seen this before
Interesting to know the Hero is an optional component for a command or recon variant... I think having a greater range and leveraging better information sharing and being able to scout remotely will be useful, as for the javelin Hero's, and I can see it being very useful against tanks that may not be as advanced, such as the majority of unupgraded Russian or Chinese stock and light armor, and possibly have applications with an HE or Frag warhead against infantry in trenches or other difficult to attack positions (which likely lack APS systems generally reserved for vehicles). Having a loitering munition may be a significantly advantageous ability due to the entire vehicle being able to be fully in cover, while also assuming the trend of digital combat integration with AR and live HUD elements is embraced - everyone can see what the drone sees, not just the tank. This may also result in more use of LOS encrypted laser communications as electronic warfare becomes more and more integral.
Imagine a fleet of these tanks launching a swarm of loitering munitions as a preemptive strike to soften armor as they are moving towards a target objective, not having to rely on calling in artillery and waiting for it, and also being able to immediately strike in the following confusion after the munitions are commanded to detonate simultaneously.
I think it's optional because you don't need a recon drone on every tank. Some smart planners will figure out that you need X of them per platoon, or per battalion, or whatever, and then some of them will carry it, and the rest will carry more ammo.
Or option B: It won't be launched from the tank at all. It has no real reason to right? It can fly, much faster than a tank can drive too. Launch the drones from bases or vehicles that are well behind the frontlines, have them catch up to the tanks, and tank crews control them from there. Almost exactly like Loyal Wingman.
Being able to be controlled in combat by just one crew member will be incredibly useful … _in war movies._
That 100K is a milestone. But when you get that diamond plaque in two years, it'll all feel unreal.
I still get excited when I talk to other sizeable TH-cam channels that are SMALLER than this one! 😂
Feels crazy!
So... Who did they say was interested in them?
Thank you for the work you put into this video. 100k are well deserved! New subby here ✌️
It even looks like the Panther of WW2 with the sloped armour.
Strange that you didn't talk about the collision between that independant project and the franco-german EMBT project supported by both governments
Rheinmetall is King of the Modern Battlefield. It's large bore guns are the absolute best in the world.
Your RGB keyboard + IMB business computer analogy really drove home for me how old the currently serving tank designs are. Dang...
Interesting vehicle. As you indicate not enough ammo and too many extras that need to be mounted on other vehicles.
I have studied tanks since the 1950's the one point that was always made keep it simple enough with enough ammo to survive a day's fighting with a very tired crew operating it. The Marines after the fight for Tarawa added additional ammo storage for future fights to avoid running out of ammo when it was needed. Under the worst conditions a crew needs at least one quarter of its basic load with one third being much better to stop a counterattack. At one third left you need to be coordinating resupply or relief pronto.
Note: I served 27 years in the US army teaching how to kill tanks among many other skills both on active duty and in the reserves. I retired in Dec 1998.
It would really heavily on nearby logistics. But.... considering the daily tank loss of russia didn't go above 10. And this tank would be 1 shot 1 kill... plenty ammo
Comment is stupid
The increased caliber of the gun, would alone result in "only" 27% increased performance, channeled into whatever parameters. So with the quoted figures around 50%, more is going on here. Something which is also obvious when you inspect the new ammunition. Much more propellant for a "hotter" round, the size of which necessitates autoloader. Not just bigger caliber, but a new generation as well.
Good, now send the Leopards east.
#FreeTheLeopards
I saw the picture of the driver compartment in Lazerpig's T14 video. It literally looks like something straight out of Mobile Suit Gundam with monitor front and on the sides. The only better driver I can think of is the AT pilot goggle, which is directly connected to the tank's sensors from Armor Trooper Votom.
KF. 51 is one of the best main battle tank in the world.
as a german i approve
The Abrams New Vision is another interesting tank revealed a short time ago.
Take a guess from where the US „inspires“
This new tank is quite cool. Hoping its gets further then the armada in production. Putin probably isn't to happy about this lol.
In Russia the T14 Armata wont be build because of corruption and no money and sanctions.
In Germany the KF51 wont be build because the German government doesnt want it. They prefer their Leo 3 project with France even though it's a failed project already. This is no military or economic decisions, but a political decision. Basically ideology over rationality.....
@@jonson856 oh so the German government is having to deal with the reformer types that the USAF had to deal with in the past? I whish them the best of luck on getting the panther through. Hopefully pressure from the public and such makes them accept it.
@@spiffywolf2850 I wouldnt say pressure, but realizing our folly. I could imagine, because of our waffling these days in regards to Ukraine, our neighbors will be totally disappointed in us.
Meanwhile Poland bought the K2 Black Panther from SK + the know-how.
They will then start building their own tanks, which are similarly good to the current Leo 2 A7 or even better. Because of our waffling our neighbors will from then on buy the Polish K2 instead of the Leo 2 or Leo 3. Or the French future Leclerc.
This Leo 3 project with France will fail, on the one hand because all other such projects have failed, and on the other hand, very likely, much like with previous projects, France will pull out once they have acquired all the know-how they need to build their own improved tank. Basically a Leclerc 2.
Only then, when we realize our folly, our future politicians may then understand what needs to be done.
Of course this is a 20-30 year prediction, who knows if thats really gonna happen.
The only time you are allowed to use the Children of the Omnisiah as background music is when you are trying to get your toaster to work
now we need the beer test for the 51 ^^
Thank you for the great video! I think it may be a viable alternative to instead of having the loitering munitions replacing ammunition capacity in the KF51 design an alternate turret for the KF41 that incorporates them...
A modified IFV being used as a _drone carrier_ seems like a good concept. Ditch the infantry capacity and instead have storage and resupply for drones and the operators/pilots sitting inside.
Using a existing IFV hull has both cost and logistics benifits, and also means that enemy forces can't readily identify it as a drone "mothership" and thus a priority target.
And being the standard IFV it will be able to keep up with the other armour and do overwatch while the "heavy MBT" does the job it's optimised for.
However a small helicopter drone for a MBT does make sense just for situational awareness in both Tank vs Tank battles and in spotting anti tank infantry that could ambush the MBT.
But leave launching and controlling the attack drones to a dedicated vehicle that isn't on the tip of the spear.
@@casbot71 yes, with the small drones only you probably wouldn't need a fourth crew member and instead have the commander or gunner control it.
That could get really intresting with the sensors and the recon-drone, when those are connected to the fire control system, just automatically guide the main gun to the source by the push of a button and fire.
With the drone it could even get better, spot a target ready for an ambush, let the drone lock on the target and the gun moves to the target...they won't know what hit them 😆
The suicide drone launcher makes not much sense, it would be rather for an IFV, but maybe they though about a scenario, to neutralize targets that are hidden or beyond visual range...knock them out before they hit you...would even explain the bigger gun, just maximize the first strike capability.
Think the plan is make one ore two tanks in the platoon to a missle platform if it's required for the mission, to not take less armored IFV into a massive tank fight just to have anti tank missle
my left ear really enjoyed the intro
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel…
As a concept she is GORGEOUS. I'm interested to see how she evolves.
The Chieftain has mentioned that he does not approve of having the 4th crewman or the loitering munition for the Abrams X and KF51 unless there is a compelling reason for this. The idea is that a tank is limited in size and that things like drone operation and loitering munitions can be done in either other vehicles should not be placed in a tank unless it can be justified via doctrine. For the KF51, instead of a fourth crew man, perhaps more fuel.
Better off with more ammunition. Even without the drone systems you’ve only got 20 rounds, that’s HALF what an Abrams carries and even less compared to the Challenger 2
@@ArmorCast But guessing by the modern weapons aiming system with high first hit probability, why are 20 shots not enough?
Only because older systems have more ammo?
Sounds just conservative, because it was always done that way ..
@@DJ1573 Against tanks the 20 rounds are maybe enough, but tanks are also used in the fire support role as can be seen in Ukraine. That requires a lot more rounds as they are often also used to supress enemy infantry.
@@DJ1573 tanks rarely fight other tanks, they sling HE around at infantry, fortifications and buildings. if they meet another vehicles its likely a light vehicle and a HEAT-MP shell will suffice, so having only 20 rounds onboard would be a massive drawback.
@@dougblack8414 But it should not be like this. Thats what IFVs are made for.
The drone operator can coordinate tank contacts and response thanks to superior drone reconnisance while the IFVs take on fortifications/infantry together with the mounted infantry.
You know about the german tank grenadier doctrine?
I think you should have started with the most important feature of the Panther. It looks bloody awesome!!
*"finally fixed the problem of the World War 2 era Panther Transmission disaster"* is the rumor.
The new panther's gun could shoot clean through 3 Tiger 2's width of armor. That's scary.
It is rumored that a KF51 Panther MBT will cost almost equivalent to a light fighter jet. Correct?
How much will they cost?
I don't care much for rumors
I would remove the loitering ammo feature, because sacrificing HALF of your ammo for that seems not so whise, especially considring the long range of that weapon would allow it to be fired from a different vheicle while still being capable of supporting the MBT.
Totally agree on the small quad drone, the simple ability to tag an enemy and relay the location with precise digital coordinates is a perfectly good idea, especially since it does not really impact the MBT wheight so negatuvely.
I do not know about the 7.62 MG, i would prefer the road most next gen MBTs are going for: a light 30mm. But it seems that there is enough space to put that system in the turret. In general the KF51, the EMBT, the Abrams X and the K2 Black Panther all seems very solid tanks on paper, but who knows how they will perform in reality?
Well it’s exchangeable so depending on the mission you can ether have more ammo or loitering munitions.
Man you said( wrote). so many words , an actually said nothing at all..
@@reserva120 What do you mean? It's pretty clear. I was just talking about what features of the MBT i like and what i would change, and justified my reasoning. I literally wrote 4 praragraphs.
i mean isnt the current docrtrine of the leopard for trucks to follow them around anyway? if the leopard wants to drive under water, then the truck has the air intake parts for the leopard to do that, cant they carry ammo as well? so if thats the case and the KF51 will be replacing the leopard then whats stopping the trucks from carrying the ammo and just stick in inside the tank when outside of combat without the need to return to base as much
Someone played "Command & Conquer: Generals" at Rheinmetall, that's for sure...
The profile of this tank is awesome
I think it's also time to step down. 120mm is like an optimal for good amount of rounds and high fire power but with 130 and 140mm munition in the vehicle get lower maybe its time for the 105mm coming back for some more medium Tanks in the 25 to 45t range for also more monility
I would actually tend to agree with that. With the idea of the ETC cannon being a reality now (XM360 gun of the Abrams X is an ETC gun), the larger calibre is not necessary to gain velocity or penetration.
If you don't know, an ETC gun is basically all the benefits of a railgun, but without the massive energy requirement, barrel life issues, or sheer size of the assembly!
@@ArmorCast yeah but barrel life is also an issue if it is rifled which is the standard for 105mm for now atleast but i hope to see Something like this driving next to a kf51 xD
@@kqckeforyou4433 no reason why a 105mm smoothbore ETC could not be developed, though it would unfortunately mean that existing 105mm ammo cannot be used.
ETC guns’ barrel life issues have all but been fixed
@@ArmorCast yeah and we need to go smoothboore anyway. I also remember that rifled barrels also create strong friction with the Apfsds Projektile trought the driveband but take that with a grain of salt. So a switch could lead to better Performance and even without ETC we could modify existing Projektile with new Penetrator who can sharp them self (like DU one) , modern propellant and also change of the Shell from metall to those wich are also Propellant and only the stup is metall. I did some wage math and from a top 105mm Penetrator which had around 530mm at 2km with 0° an increase in atleast 30 to 40 percent out of the same barral should be possible which leads up to around ~700mm at 2km with 0° which are around the Performance of modern tungsten apfsds out of L/44 barral so with ETC so mutch can be achieved. But that would need the Will to do it
I guess next armor name will be Tiger 😁
Also to mention, no one gave Rheinmetall the order to devellope a new main MBT-concept, this shows quite well how much money the german "defense-industry" has made over the last centuries.
Except for the new French-German-Italy cooperation…
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Ground_Combat_System
I love that you chose the soundtrack of the Warhammer 40k Mechanicus game to talk about futuristic technology
The Battle of 73 Easting saw Apaches providing digital spotting for Abrams tanks, allowing them to provide long-range indirect fire. I would assume these Panthers have that capability on the digital battlefield too.
I heard german bureaucracy is so messed up and slow that acquiring new equipment is probably the weakness of the german military at the moment. Is there truth to this?
Admittedly, I’m pretty ignorant when it comes to these things.
Congratulations!! Off to a million 👍🏿💪🏿😎
I think Germans were the first people to encounter tanks in the battlefield. Must have been quite a sight and the infantrymen must have been terrified the first time during WW1.
Depends on which sources you believe - according to all the BRITISH historical journals and sources, the Germans were FLEEING IN FEAR from the technological terror they'd constructed... According to all the GERMAN sources, they were just sort of puzzled.
The truth is probably somewhere in between
@@ArmorCast flame tanks were horrific and the Germans ran from them. Also in straddling over the trench, the side main guns could fire down the trench line. Initially, there was no answer to them.
@@williamoloughlin8298 The answer was field artillery, which wreaked HAVOC on early tanks. This is why for their first few battles, British heavy tanks in WW1 were almost entirely ineffective, as were the Schneider and Saint-Chamond (and the German A7V was never effective at all!). Then the K-bullet was invented, and the tanks basically became death traps. They may have been startling, and done significant damage in limited areas... but from a larger scale perspective, they were not very influential, and by the end of 1916 many considered them a failure as an idea.
What made tanks effective was A: the adoption of the FT17, and B: the adoption of mass armor formation and maneuver warfare tactics (yes that was a thing in WW1).
Tanks. They just seem, on a modern battlefield, as huge, easy to find -- targets. I would just go all in on drone aircraft with stand off weapons, like glide bombs, etc. Imagine how many switchblades you could flying in a swarm vs the cost of one heavy tank.
Love your honesty Captain. Your info is fantastic and seemingly very well researched. I would have said without doubt you had attended university in some historical capacity. Taa for sharing your work with all.
For personal use.
5:28 130mm Long Schlong
12:44 Autoloader
14:33 Secondary
15.16 Loiter Munition
17:10 Spotter Drone
17:18 Protection
17:18 APS
18:39 Vroooom Spec
20:54 Passive Armor. Completely fuck on the physics, just like the ammo video.
Btw, the ammo video still have all the issue and is still up there.
23:31 Analog to digital
23:26 NGVA
23:40 Goes back to passive armor?
23:59 Ranting about the hull
23:49 More Vroooom Spec, not sure why another part of it appears at 18:39
25:28 Sensory equipment
25:41 Detecting a thermal sensor? Which is a completely passive sensor?
25:59 Strv 103 control scheme again
26:25 Future of optionally manned turret/vehicle
26:45 Comment on paint job???
26:57 That geometric block at base of gun, and very out of whack theory
27:16 Out of whack theory of geometry LO design
27:20 WHY, replace tenk?
28:49 Leo2 has upgrades, but not enough
29:31 Draws F22 parallel
30:16 Goes back to tenk
31:26 Germany military readiness suck.
30:56 Rant Rant Rant
31:57 Dubious comment on "cyber security"
32:54 B2 is a thing.
33:49 Goes back to tenk rant.
34:17 Why no unmanned turret?
35:09 Turret has more armor than hull, meaning crew in hull will have less armor...
35:43 Re think what tank should looks like.
36:02 Turret has less armor means mission kill is more likely.
36:18 T-14 layout is self defeating, pulling out statistic out of rear end
36:34 (Not) Modern threats...
37:01 Mine protection is not possible with crew in hull...
37:44 The rest is conclusion.
40:20 Poland will most likely not be Germany customer anymore, instead be an exporter themself.
Extremely good video with loads of information.
I would love to see sources, as well, but still. Awesome work.
First video where I heard RheinMetall not pronounced incorrectly as "rine medal". Great video.
A great summary... thanks very much.
Congrats on 100k subs! wish you the best man
Greetings from Finland, I hope we will buy 100 of these and give all of our Leopard 2A4 tanks to Ukraine. I think every Finn wants to help Ukraine but you only have to look at a map to realize why Finland might need the equipment itself....
Everyone who knows the History of the Winter war, will understand you.
Now we only need a heavy breakthrough version...
They should have called it the Tiger instead of the Panther. The name itself would have given it a bigger message to the world. Because that’s basically what this tank is
theres already a Tiger
We are still waiting for the challenger video
The British military vehicle industry needs to be rebuilt
Maybe a solid first step in armored vehicle design ought to be a new move towards tank-killers on one hand and (heavily armored, highly mobile, high-powered guns) - tanks on the other.
The tank has always been the finest instrument to dismantle fortifications on the ground, and its bane has historically been not a MBT, but a tank killer.
We do still have that, with vehicles like the M1134 Stryker that use ATGMs, or the 105mm gun armed Centauro, Type 16, or AMX-10RC. The problem is the same that hampered tank destroyers in WW2 - those types of vehicles aren’t very versatile, and a nation familiar with how to organised combined arms warfare brigades will be able to account for them as a threat.