Dreyse Model 1835 Needlefire Breechloading Pistol
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ย. 2024
- Johann Nicolaus Dreyse, later promoted to the aristocracy as Nicolaus von Dreyse, designed the first mainstream military breechloading rifle. His rifle was adopted by Prussia and changed military history, but this was not his only work. Dreyse also endeavored to sell guns commercially, both rifles and handguns. This is an example of one of his first, the Model 1835. It is a single shot breechloader, with the chamber consisting of a rotating tumbler. The firing mechanism is identical in concept to that of his Model 1841 rifle, just scaled down for the smaller pistol. The piece uses a power charge of just 6 grains, but its breechloading action was quite advanced for the 1830s!
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Yep, they where closer to having a "caseless, rotating bolt firearm" in 1830 than now:
" Kraut Steampunk Magic"
Kraut s̶p̶a̶c̶e̶ steam magic
@@JappeChristian There's a case to legitimately call this 'smoke magic'.
Actually, as Ian explains, caseless paper cartridge actually predates the metallic ones, and the volcanic too.
@Unique Plumbus *has stroke in Prussian*
Then HK went to make G11. Are we going full circle?
Ah! It's a manual G11.
I guess that's one way to put it
Oh my god. Im betting the G11 engineers saw the dreyse system and went like "we can rebuild it. we have the technology".
DwarfBard and the plastic!
This kinda blew my mind.
As karl would say, nothing new under the sun.
Why does Rock Island need a youtube channel? Ian basically does all of their promo work for them anyway
I have one of these in near-relic condition. Amazingly, the springs and threads are all still functional. Thanks for showing my how to get the broken needle out.
With alot of the older firearms I'm amazed w/the level of ingenuity & engineering that went in to them. There is so much we as firearms enthusiasts take for granted w/modern firearms,until you watch one of these videos.
CapAndBall channel has a good video about the Dreyse rifle if anyone is insterested. He has an original in firing shape and shows not only how it works but how the cartridges were made and how it allowed the Prussians to defeat the larger Austrian army.
econchino love his videos. Super in depth and informative just like Ian’s here. Plus he shoots a lot of guns we don’t see in America much
@@chrisdooley6468 I especially love his hunting videos, showing how these old guns were used for hunting.
Yes his channel is pretty good to say the least .
You rotate it 90 degrees, not 180 degrees down. This is very cool. Thanks Ian!
Came here to say the same... 2:58 mark in the video.
Half pi ^_^
5 in the morning...
Still awake but eyes getting heavy...
*sees forgotten weapons notification with antique gun*
EYES WIDE OPEN
SLEEP IS A DISTANT MEMORY
Treat yourself better
Yeah watch 2 videos
Im glade im not the only who does this 😂
We actually still use Zoll for the diameter of TVs and Rims in Germany. Don't ask me why.
Why?
You got circular TVs? Amazing...
@@Vibakari Do you know what a diameter is?
morti271 Yes and its commonly used for circles especially. For anything like..oh..lets say.. TVs we use dimensions.
@@Vibakari Well we don't. What's your point?
What always amazes of me this old guns it's the machining process, how they did what they did with the tools, knowledge and technology of those times; i find it really amazing.
There is no inch, there is only Zoll.
What a lovely singing voice you must have!
RIMSHOT!
There is no Dana, there is only Zuul!
Prussian Zoll was 26,2 mm.
Fascinating! I have an old BSA air rifle that uses the same loading system.
.....As did my old Webley Mk3 Super Target
This and rifle version I'd love to have back then. Way ahead of it's time. Great video
One minor detail that jumped out at me watching Ian manipulate this pistol, it was designed for left-hand use.
Probably shouldn't have been as note-worthy given that military pistols in this era were usually wielded by officers or cavalry on horseback opposite swords (in their right hands). But still.
Always nice to see examples of historical developments..
What an ingenious design for the time
I wish he would do an episode on how they manufactured these old weapons from the 1700-1800s. Thats pretty good machining/craftsmanship for mass production before modern tools
The firing pin is broken on almost all of theese rotating breech variants because people try to open the lever without cocking the firing pin. They just assume it is a bit stiff to open and shear the pin off.
Hey Ian, I will use the opportunity and the somewhat relevant topic of the video to ask a question that has been bugging me for quite a while. In the 19th century the Balkans regions of the Ottoman Empire were in turmoil with revolutions boiling. The Bulgarian minority was in particular anxious for independence and a serious revolutionary movement was created, and as revolutionary movements go it was set on buying weapons for the cause. After the 1850s a huge number of US civil war surplus guns were bought , and used along with newer (then) Winchester rifles and so on. And indeed museums here are full with Confederate Enfields, Springfields, Winchesters and I’ve seen even a Volcanic pistol. However there’s literature that suggest a large number of Chassepot needle guns were purchased as well. There are indeed a couple left in museums in their original needle fire configuration but they are disproportionately few compared to American guns. Considering your knowledge in French firearms do you have any information on a substantial (for a revolution of course) purchase of Chassepot rifles that you are aware of?
Amazing technology for the time. Truly innovative. Many thanks or showing it to us Ian.
Great video! I really enjoy seeing these old weapon reviews. I appreciate what you do.
Nice workmanship. It's the only nice thing I could think to say.
An elegant weapon, for a more civilized time.
I wouldn't call the 1800s more civilized
I adore the shape of its grip and trigger guard.
Looking closely at 6.23 minutes you can see what appears to be a repair to the woodwork. Could explain why it obscures the engraving on the action. Good video!
Zoll is the common German translation for inch.
So when you reload the cartridge is pointing at you... That chamber better be cold.
Ian did say it's a really weak powder charge, not sure that thing would get hot enough to fire autonomously during reload before your paper cartridges ran out!
If it got hot enough to cook off before you could close the action it would probably be too hot to work the action? Plus if it cooked off while open it would just explode so it doesn’t really matter where it points
You'd have to swab it after each shot like a muzzleloading artillery piece!
geez this has such a steampunk feel to it, also not sure but wasn't basic gun with no upgrades from Dishonored based on this?
man I love that game
that is a beautiful piece.
This is a beautiful pistol I would love to own
Wow, what an advanced weapon for the early 1800's ! You could get probably 10 shots a minute out of those pistols, what a firepower compared to muzzle loaders.
Thank you , Ian .
Very good looking gun - it's old but it somehow looks just right.
I have no idea how rare it is, but you should do a video on a Samopal ZB 47 Paratrooper. Its such a dope looking gun with an interesting feed system
That's a good looking pistol there.
When the primer is a significant portion of the propellant charge.
Yes, rotation in the breach . Thanx
Awesome video as always and a really interesting pistol!
Now that's a handsome pistol.
I am a german industrial worker and we call an inch ,Englisches Zoll', because it is the english variation of the former measurement unit ,Zoll'. And i doubt that on a german pistol of this tme had stamped english words, so the stamps surely meant something different than six grains.
Looks really nice
The "Zoll" measures 26.15 mm, so you get 0.34*26.15/25.4 = 0.35 in, exactly like you measured.
“We can rotate it 180 degs. down”- Ian, while rotating it 90 degs. downward.
I can imagine this with a virticle mag over the breech, like a steampunk Villar-Perosa
Huh. Reminds me of the Kammerlader.
@josh lassauniere www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammerlader&ved=2ahUKEwjwrqHxgo_kAhUIdJoKHZgKBgoQFjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1xzVGDjzw56dk7dIeIMYEP
@josh lassauniere C&Rsenal Anvil has annindepth twoparter on the Kammerlader, here's the 1st: th-cam.com/video/eOFRWyo-yPM/w-d-xo.html
There are also several other channels that have featured it, just search TH-cam for kammerlader and you should find them
@josh lassauniere Well here's the system in pistol form for example: th-cam.com/video/QjzrUYgAzAI/w-d-xo.html
And here you can see the rifle version of it being fired:
th-cam.com/video/b88yM45n_ZA/w-d-xo.html
Note that it's not needlefire, but is rather percussion lock fired, but, breechloading, with a cartridge or loose powder and ball. A Norwegian thing.
That pistol look surprisingly good to me considering it's time, even it's sights; i've seen early 1900s and 1920s guns with much worst sights than those.
Be on time for the first day of school < IAN UPLOADED
Wonderful work again Ian at this point you should be walking encyclopedia on all firearms lol
Very Cool Pistol !!!!!!
Striker fired from 1835! Very interesting
Great video.
The Firing pin has a removable needle, about the Size of an RCBS decapping pin ( large)...so a small supply of pins could keep the gun running as needles burnt out ( or use stainless needles....longer
Life)
DocAV
Looking at the positioning of the lever and latch it looks like its suited for shooting left handed but holstering it seems better on your right hip.
Nice
It's fascinating to see how far we've come in our weaponry designs. That needle being hollow was rather a surprise, I wonder if it would have held up better if it had been solid through.
Currentlyunnameddj the actual needle isn’t hollow, like he says the needle itself is missing. The hole in the end of the needle-holder stem thingy is where the actual needle would have been attached, these were manufactured in two parts and only the larger rear part is still there.
@Klippy Klop yes, the needles had to be replaced somewhat frequently. The actual thin needle bit is missing from the gun in the video, just like Ian says. That's why the end of what remains looks hollow. The needle itself wasn't hollow.
Elegant.
Pretty cool
I don't think 6 grains of black powder would even give that enough energy to break the skin.
Gun Jesus should do a collaboration with the Cap and Ball channel 😀
Wow I have a old bsa. 22 air gun that works the same way you unlock the leaver crank it and it opens the port for the palet lock the crank then use the same leaver to lock the breach cool
G11 on a budget
The perfect single shot rocket ball pistol?
Very complex for the time. Damn, i don't know if i could make that one yet, i will stick to my percussion and quick-match lead accelerators for now.
you could very easily make a gun like that in .22. just put the cartridge in bullet down and have the lever rotate to the front. you could even put a little extractor on it. would be a great plinking gun for kids
In principle, Pushkin might have had one at his last duel. Though afaik that was a flint-lock.
Inventive load design.
It is somewhat reminiscent of the lorenzoni system if it wasn't for the paper cartridge
I was really hoping to find a customized Dreyse model 1835 pistol in a web search., sadly no luck. It's a nice looking firearm but some engraving and inlays would really make this gun stand out. Most likely any high end customized examples are in private collections, unlikely to be seen again for decades.
Impressive 1835 metallurgy to rely on a coil spring.
I'm just a student and quite busy. But being German I could help you with some translations from time to time.
Are you not mentioning that all of these shown firearms are for sale at the end of your videos because of TH-cam's policies, Ian? The usual wording you have seems to have changed.
Serial number could be workshop through number, like they produced all guns in a single serial range
Just curious the barrel looks in better condition than the rest of the pistol is there a chance that a new barrel might have been fitted some time ago maybe to replace a original barrel I maybe wrong however just looking at the barrel and the other parts look more pitted.
Hmmmm...I wonder...have you ever thought about stealing Othias's Patented Plastic Pokey Hand?
Can't. It's Patented!
@@StromBugSlayer I'm sure Othias would be willing to license it to Ian
Would you mind checking up on the C&R folks? They're uploading strange videos with berries and rodent parodies.
I feel like this would be somewhat popular if made as a reproduction chambered in .22 long-rifle.
Anyone else look at this and think "Wow this would make a cool bowl to smoke from"
You said it was an anemic powder charge but how anemic exactly? Was it capable of killing small game or inflict significant injury to a human with the bullet that goes with it, or was it purely recreational gun for target shooting?
The powder charge for a 32 cal cap and ball revolver is 7 to 15 Grains (and it is not a considered a powerful gun).
Is 6 grain gunpowder even a vimpy load. I thought you put more in the pan in a flintlockpistol. It´s 0.389 gram or 0.14 Oz for anyone who wounders.
With high quality fine (4F) powder, I have no doubt it can be deadly at short distances. I have a .44 pocket pistol with space for a 9gr charge, and I don't want to stand in front of that thing for sure. ^^ A friend shoots a .36 Pedersoli percussion pistol with 8gr Swiss No1 (4f), and it actually feels quite zippy. It will not knock someone off their feet for sure, but will poke a nice little hole. I think it would have been sufficient as a traveling pistol. Some pocket pistols at that time were only .31 with similar charges. But not quite a military weapon. ^^
I had loading data for .357 Magnum infront of me. that is 19 grain of smokless.
@@exploatores Which was an exceptionally powerful handgun round when it was developed in 1935 .. not to speak of 1835 when this pistol was made. Probably about 20..30 times the kinetic energy this little pistol can deliver. ;-)
Why is the barrel so thick and massive if the cartridge is so wimpy? Is it because the metallurgy of the time wasn't very good ?
Six grains of black powder? What was it used for? Hunting mice?
It had actual cartridges though.
@@k.w.4241 15.5 × 6 grains would'nt fit in that small breach. It's probably 6 grains.
@@danneeson4341 I can be wrong but I think 6 grains of black powder works out to abut 12 drams, which would be about right for a 35 cal pistol
To put it in perspective, original load for 22lr BP cartridge was 5gr of FFFF [or FFFFF] powder...
When you have customers making their own cartridges it's probably not a good idea to put the powder charge on there. They can't buy more guns if they blow their arms off.
Thank you ian I love your vidoes could you do one on the savage arms stevens model 20 gauge
bolt action I have one but I have never seen another one
I enjoyed this. :)
@Ian If the Dreyse system was a good step forward AND the system was available by the 1830s (and not just for the Prussian Military), why did no one else adopt/steal/copy it?
Because of the need for standardized cartridge for such a system. At that time most countries were not ready to support weapon like this in big armies
Six grains of BP ? Were these used as Gallery pistols ?
Nice video Ian ......... but what's new with that? :-) So a question for clarification. The receiver is marked with the powder charge being 6gr. black powder ............ in 1835 ............ but smokeless didn't exist till 1886 ........ So before 1886 there was gunpowder ....... why mark it as black powder? It just makes no sense to me and I was hoping you could shed some light on it.
You know black powder is gun powder don't you smokeless is nitro cellulose.
6 grains of powder? And inferior powder at that, I imagine. That's a crazy small amount of kinetic energy even in 1835, right?
6 grams, not grains.
I've got plenty on the Dreyse, including battle field effectiveness studies. I'll send it to you... If I figure out a way how 🤔 (I don't mean your E-mail-adress, btw... more like convert it into pdf or something)
Hell, I'd love to see that too if you'd be willing to send it to me!
Easy way to do that is to print it as a .pdf file. I use an old version (3.0) of cutepdf. It becomes a printer option that you select. Anything that can be printed can be converted. The newer versions have adware in them though.
That gun was meant for use as a parlour pistoi, right?
Malcolm Reynolds would be pleased...
6 grains of powder is not too wimpy, a 38 Special has about that much or less.
That's real powder [aka "black" in modern parlance] not this Poudre Blanche passing fad... ;-)
'The same thing just scaled down a little bit' only if they did this in ww1
Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't there be a danger when loading that there were bits of smoldering debris in the chamber/barrel that would cook off the new round?
In theory, yes. But I don't think the expected rate or volume of fire would be near great enough for that to be a concern.
OR that is (part of) why this has become a Forgotten Weapon.
Odd how it's wimpy cartridge makes it bad for combat/defensive use yet the crappy sights make it bad for target use.
The breech markings said '6 Gram Pulv', right? So where does the '6 grain' bit come from? Because 6 grams is about 92,6 grains.
What happens when the burnt paper builds up in the bottom of the breech? Surely some residue would clog the weapon,and necessitate thorough cleaning?
I was thinking the same thing but just the black powder residues alone would necessitate a clean through?
Only way would to have a special cleaning tool matched to the breech block internal shape?
@@markrussell4449 Sounds about right. Something would have been available. A similar tool used for cleaning the rifle?
What happens if the percussion cap gets stuck inside I did not see a way to put that thing out or dig it out
It's more like a paper or glass vial, not a metal cap like you're expecting
When did 90 degrees equal 180...
Cap on the end of the butt can also prevent gas from escaping
Too much information!