I love my Ray4, especially after upgrading to Aguilar pickup and preamp. I watched Low End Lobster's upgrades to several Ray4s and opted for Aguilar. I now keep my Ball Family Reserve Sting Ray for special occasions and use the Ray4 for everyday practice and gigs .
If you are going to pay that much for a pickup you should get them custom wound to the sound you want from a pickup maker. I have all my pickups made at Sentell and it costs less than those boutique pickups. This is not spam I'm one of his repeat customers
Got my own Sterling sting ray. With flat wounds it really milds out that stingray sizzle to a much more versatile level. Couldn’t be more happier. I personally hate satin finish on instruments but a gentleman told me if you buff it with polish it will turn into a normal clear coat finish. I kept my expectations low and gave it a shot and he wasn’t lying! It buffed out to what I would describe a a “worn vintage clear coat.” Couldn’t be more happier with the Sterling!
@@JonnyDibble I dont know if you still have your Affinity Jaguar, but I put an EMG MMTW in mine and it sounds fantastic. I had to increase the cavity size and I Will soon shield it because it is not shielded at all (probably because the mudbucker couldn't replicate the noise).
If anything the Sterling bass just sounded like a more subdued version of the USA model with much less bite or shimmer... Not sure how you came to the conclusion that one sounded any more thin than the other when both essentially used the exact same humbucker/pickup electronics?
USA has superior attack and a much more stable neck. I have 4 USA Stingrays, a Ray34, and two Subs. The Ray34 is actually much more of a contender to the USA IMO. I also found the Sterlings to muddy up quicker and have shrinking fretboards over time, leading to noticeable fret ends. YMMV.
I agree. The Ray34 is a better use of your money. I love mine. And you can get one used for $500-600. So we're not talking a crazy amount more than the Ray4. But a significant increase in quality. I would advise people just to wait a couple more paychecks and get the Ray34. I actually like the Ray34 neck better than the US StingRays. At least the US models I've played frequently (2018 4H and 4HH Classic) have an extremely chunky neck front to back. I don't mind a wide neck at the nut. But these super fat necks didn't work for me. The Ray34 is wide at the nut but pretty flat.
I had buyers remorse when I bought an EBMM Stingray (special) last year, and it took playing that back to back with a Ray34 for me to solidify my decision was the right one. The MusicMan just has MORE everything, not to mention how wonderful the satin neck feels.
I bought the Sub 2 pickup model with the 5 way switch. It had only 3 knobs as well. I upgraded to 2 semore Duncan pickups with the electronics. It came with 4 knobs with a pullup volume knob. I paid around $500 for the hardware including a bottom input hardware and 4 black matte metal knobs and a graphic nut. The work costed and $250 so around $750. I also upgraded the ugly whote pick guard for a pearl gray on over the lime green Bass color. It was so worth it and it sounds great. My bass is heavey as well.
I have the "sub ray 4" model, older and made in China, the one with "SUB" written in giant letters. the bass came with the factory problem that made it sound distorted (very low quality pickup and preamp), and the sound of the strings was not crystal clear, even with new strings. I replaced the pickup and preamp with a "Seymour Duncan" combo, the "SMB4DS". The change in sound was spectacular, resembling its American big brother. Although the tuning pegs and the bridge are generic, they fulfill their function. Also, since the bass body is made of basswood, it sounds different from its American big brother. I think that the "Sterling Sub Series Ray4" is an excellent platform to make modifications, but investing more than 500 or 600 dollars in modifications, seems to me a nonsense, considering that the "ray34" sounds practically the same as an American stingray. Anyway, a tremendously functional and good bass, if you change the pickup and preamp, perfect for any use, both professional and amateur.
MM Stingrays are notorious for not recording well, but they sound funky AF in the right hands as a performance bass though, that tone cuts through like a maniac. From my personal experience, playing EB MM Stingrays is a fun experience, especially when it comes to slapping. However, after the initial excitement fades, you're left with a substantial, heavy slab of ash with a thicc boi PBass feeling neck that costs more than double what most Fender Js cost. It takes a minute to remember how fat those necks are and how much distance there is between strings when you're used to playing a Jazz. It's like getting into a Dodge Ram when you're used to driving an Acura. Resting your thumb on the soapbar feels a little weird at first since it's so close to the bridge and not in the sweet spot on a neck pickup that we all grow accustomed to, but playing the strings at that higher tension towards the bridge is just part of the fun and helps shape that unmistakable tone. Would I buy one? Nope. I would still prefer a Jazz even if the prices were swapped. But they definitely have a place and have been wielded by some of the best. If you really want one, buy the Stirling version, paint the headstock, or get an MM sticker and slap the snot out of it occasionally for fun.
Great comparison video. Just recently bought a 2019 mint sting ray for £1500 off reverb. Practiced with it last night and literally loved it. Sound wise, it just cut through the mix perfectly, I had the bass middle and Treble set to middle, and the band were very complimentary of the sound As for the weight, I have A fender Jazz, a Fender P and a Mike Dirnt Signature P. In my opinion, the weight didn't feel too dissimilar too my above mentioned basses, therefore to me they weight isn't an issue. The neck of a stingray is the neck of a P bass but without lacquered finish, so the matt finish makes it an absolute breeze to play. 12 month ago, I played the sterling and the stingray, and for me the stingray won. I have been saving for 12 months, and it was definitely worth the wait
I have a pickup modification in my Ray4 to a Seymour Duncan SMB-4A. sounds good. preamp still standard. thinking maybe an aguilar obp-1? The neck of the Ray4 is much nicer for me than the USA
4:34 finger 7:33 pick 9:52 slap Very interesting comparison because the main sound difference between these two basses is that the MM bass has an alnico 5 pickup wired in parallel, while the Sterling by MM Ray4 has a ceramic pickup wired in series (if Jonny didn’t switch it to parallel…) They have two difference preamps too, but in flat position they should sound very similar
I recently bought the ray 4 Walnut stain satin finish. Maybe I got lucky but I set the action and intonation and this thing plays like a dream. the tone is nothing less than stellar. Part of me says if it sounds this good stock how much better would it be with a high-end preamp? Then the other part says don't fix it if it's not broken you might break it. My other four strings are a Geddy Lee Japanese model and a Signature guitars custom jazz prototype. This bass just shelved both!
I own a '93 Stingray with the 3 band preamp, and a Stingray Classic which has the 2 band preamp. Both have the large bridge with the string mutes, but the Classic has a String thru body design. The Classic definitely has a different sound than the '93, but then I got a John East preamp for the 3 band Stingray, and with the mid knob in neutral position, thr bass and treble knob now responds and sounds almost the same as the 2 band Classic preamp.
One thing this taste test revealed is that I dislike the sonic quality of DI and whatever amp sim was used. A couple of years ago I came into the possession of a 2013 SBMM Ray34CA, two--band EQ, and it is a fantastic bass.
As a lefty... I was only able to find a Sub Ray 4 and it is my primary bass. There are moments where the USA sounds better, but not for the difference of $2000. I feel like I got a steal for Sub Ray 4. Ill slap an Aguliar in it, get a new bridge, and call it a day.
I just got a Ray34 Stirling. I've had a lot of basses over the years. This is the best one. I've been learning slap (Funk). Never knew I could play it. I'm not bad! I might change some things on it just like I put Seymour Duncans on my Epiphone Les Paul
The worst part about the Sterling line is the naming convention that makes it impossible to find the old EBMM Sterlings. Wish they would have gone with “Sterling Ball Music Man” instead for the line.
A sterling Ray 4 and the Seymour Duncan pickup with the stock preamp sounds great. The preamp will give the bass more shape and that'll cost an additional 145 dollars. But without the preamp it sound very good. They are on sale now for 289 down from 349. I have a 1988 Ernie Ball sting ray bass and that sounds great, but they go for 2600 dollars. The resale is better, but who really cares.
Personally I like the middle ground of the Ray34. It's a significant step up in quality from the Ray4. You can get one used for around $550. I have a friend who is an Ernie Ball-sponsored artists. I've played his StingRays many times. I actually like my Ray34 better. I will admit that his pickups and electronics sound a bit better, but I prefer the feel of my bass. The American StingRays, at least his models, have an extremely chunky neck front to back. Mine is more comfortable for me. All that's not to say that the Ray4 is a bad instrument. It's a great value for the money. But I firmly believe mid-tier instruments are the way to go. $500-$1000 is the sweet spot for quality and affordability, imo.
MM 3 band Stingray is my go to. I picked up a Sterling 24 to tour with and it sounded great playing alone. Wouldn’t cut through the mix with the band though so I sold it.
If you look at the actual eq curves of the eqs, “flat” isn’t flat, and the curves of the two band and three band are quite different. There really is no flat, you just dial to taste.
I’ve owned multiple Ernie Ball Music Man Stingrays and Sterlings. My #1, never get rid of bass if my EBMM natural Stingray. That being said, I’m thinking about getting a Sterling Ray34 as a back up. I personally do not like the lowest/cheapest tier Sterling has to offer. They feel and sound cheap to my ears.
I really like the neck quality of the musicman. It's like high end quality furniture grade baseball bat. No its not needed but I appreciate the extra finishing and quality that goes into that. A sub series would still do the same job and sound great and last you just as long.
I would gladly take a Music Man if it was given to me or if I could afford one but I've own a blue stained SUB before and they feel really nice especially the neck. The stock sound isn't bad but after hearing what Lowend Lobster did with his SUB upgrade series owning a Music Man sounding SUB sounds like a really good option, Now the bridge is something I wish you could find a replacement for 😕. Now with all that said I am currently playing an old OLP MM2 STINGRAY that is passive yet still has that Stingray growl and it feels closer to a Music Man than a Sub, I got it for $100 at a pawnshop
Two band eq vs three band eq, thats quite different , i own enbmm stingray two and three band eq, always prefer 2 band eq, owned few Sterlings 34/SUB and bongo tu, but my best stingray is 1989 two band eq, playing and comfort i will choose Sterling USA and bongo 4.
I have a Musicman and love the punch, brightness, and bottom end, especially if you're slapping. It has a little more depth to the notes but I was surprised at how much bottom end the Sterling had. It sounded a warmer and a completely different tone, kind of like the MIM Jazz basses. I might get a Sterling as a backup bass, it sounded good.
Ive got a Ray 34 in black and they are closer to a older music man pre 2018, i wish i could afford a real Music man they are $2700 or more now. On a side note i have a G&L Tribute L2000 and a CLF L2000 they sound nearly identical but the CLF fells much better.😊
The question here is: what is the bass suppossed to sound like? And, for what type of music? Yes, the more expesive has more attack and definition. But the cheaper version actually sounds like like a bass should.... bassy, especially in a mix.
personally i like the sound of the sterling ray4 better! i don't want a trebly or as some put it so well, ''thin'' sound on a bass..go figure, i want a bass to sound low and powerful?! i guess i'm just not a ''professional'' ..anyway, ''THIN'' is how the MM sounded to me! plus i like a smaller fender like NECK as i have on my fender jazz/p bass. looks like ill be saving some money on this purchase, maybe with some mods later as you suggested, or start with a sterling 34 , but for now i think the sound on the sterling is killer, and much closer to what MM is known for!
All in all, a small tonal difference, nothing an eq and comp cant compensate for, and would probably not be of importance in a mix anyway. Are the string the same (brand, gauge, wear) on both? Because for example a brand new set on the US one and a worn in on the other could totally explain a big part of the difference between those two.
This is the first time I've seen ANY brand's USA model be so distinctly different -- and in this example, better. The Sub sounds good, and I wouldn't ignore it... but the EBMM actually has the distinctive StingRay sound. If it's possible to upgrade the pickups / wiring for less than 1000, the Sub might be the better option. (I have a black-on-black OLP StingRay I'm pleased with, but it's passive circuitry, so sounds pretty much like a Precision.)
As a usa musicman owner I will say at least get a ray34/35. I owned a sub previously and it was honestly not good at all. Now the ray34 is another story. If I could do it all again i would save some money and have gone with a ray34.
Ive got a sterling short and an old USA SUB model. Love them both but the import definitely just has a "cheap" feel to it. I think its the knobs that really turn me off.
Sterling may sound similar, but make not mistake is a whole different instrument than the Musicman. Decent entry level option, but I have the hunch the Sire model will be closer to the OG
The sterling sound fuller, warmer and more balanced than the MM american. Sure, a compressor would do wonder on the MM, but that bass is 3k, it shouldn't NEED one. I'd go for the ray and upgrade the tuners and bridge. Thanks for the comparison.
There was a clear difference in treble.back to back the sub sounded muffled and lacked definition as a solo instrument. It was as different as a P bass and J bass.
Worth noting the Sterling has a MUCH bigger preamp output as the pickup is wired in series. Our ears tend to fool us to think louder is better! Agree with you and I modded my Sterling with Hipshot tuners and a Nordstrand pickup/preamp combo....all sourced as used parts = Killer bass.
I was just gonna post that it was wired in series so that would make it sound thicker, I don’t really think this video is fair comparison to be honest. I have a stingray special HH, and I have played the Sterling imports, for me the real stingray sounds better, especially if you adjust the EQ, i’m not saying the Sterlings are bad but there’s a definite difference in quality, especially with how it feels in your hand, no compensating nut, the knobs feel cheap. The tuners feel cheap, the bridge is cheap, The neck is just not the same caliber as the real deal, though it’s not bad.
The tone difference is amazing. I think the sub is good for beginers or anyone who wants to play a stingray on budget. Whereas the usa one is something to work towards
What I notice is that the preamp on the ray4 is horrible. If you boost bass it will be distorted, if you boost treble it will not sound bright at all. Just a dull sound. The music man preamp is great, but I noticed that there is some humming on the signal. Perhaps it needs a shielded cavity. My two cents of all that is that is better to buy the Ray4 as a modding platform and replace the parts yourself. Better wiring, pickups, tuners and bridge
With me it does all come from the feel, and thats with any brands usa to os models. I have a ray24ca and a ebmm stingray special. The weight for the 18+ models was fixed and 24 volts for the pre help there. I do like the 1.5 width neck of the ray24, but it feels like you can easily snap that neck. The neck on the ebmm feels strong and much better then the ray24. Now money wise, I've been blessed with the ability to own a USA ebmm, but the sterling models are just as good to give you everything from the ebmm. The upside I give sterling is that they are so cheap, if you're a tinker, you don't feel bad replacing everything on it to your spec. The end of the day just play and enjoy your instrument. PS turn that thumb up when you slap boss man. It will change you slap game ten fold.
I skipped ahead and thought the white bass was the cheap bass. Either way, both basses sounded the best at times, but overall, especially towards the middle to end, the white bass sounded better, and sometimes very noticeably
I disagree. I've owned both and there's virtually no difference. That's a drag for the American worker but a great deal for the consumer. I know Music Man are constantly changing their design. My Sterling Ray from a few years back has 4 knobs and the same exact bridge as the American version. . I think what you compared was a cheaper model.
Yeah the MM has that spanky stingray sound, that i don't particularly care for.. except it's magic when slapping. If I could slap, I'd slap a MM. Also, as an American, of course we have more knobs!
The 2 band and 3 band preamps are entirely different that affect the tone. The 3 band has a high pass filter that filters out the bass then adds it back later. The 2 band doesn't have that and it has more punch. All my Stingrays have 2 bands
Having had a Sterling and now a Stingray i have to say the Stingray is far better in every department. Sorry if that goes against your narrative but it's true. In this case you get what you pay for.
I face this conundrum too! I have the exact same ray4 and love how playable it is but the electrics are slightly distorted. I also bagged a sub £1000 USA stingray this summer and while I love it, I worry about certain venues with it!
You can fix that distortion problem with a simple pickup swap. The stock pickup is too hot for the preamp. I’ve had excellent results from a $99 SD alnico pickup.
I've had 5 rays. 2xUSA, two subs, ray34 snd USA sub.The 34 does the US thing so well which the sterling unmodded misses not by much. The USA sub can be got for 600 quid and its a full fat US. Could also mod a sterlingvwith the stinger 77 pre. There's one on basschat at the moment Johnny😮
Having owned a USA stingray….the Sterling wins. The tone is better and the pricing of these USA Stingrays are priced just stupidly now. The Stingray is £1k at best price bass being sold for early £2k it’s just silly.
I own both USA Stingray 5's and Sterlings. I very much prefer the unfinished meaty neck on the USA model to she shiny skinny J shaped neck of the import. I use Subs at jams and playing in grungy bars where my Stingrays can get damaged or stolen. On the SUB, I have no problem with the tuners. I also find the stock preamp and pickup as good when set up properly. I don't understand people dumping more money on mods than they paid for the bass new. Rarely will you see people post real videos of a stock SUB to a modified one and chances they enhanced the modified one is possible because they paid all that dumb money for it and they want to show it is better. The USA is significantly better. The SUB is an exceptionally good bargain basement bass that looks like a Stingray. Sterlings are now in trouble with the Sire Z series Stingray clone which is in the same price range as Subs and import Sterlings but come with 18 volt electronics, rolled fretboard edge, 3 band eq, more cutaway on lower horn so you can easily access high notes, string through body and many more features. You will not likely need to do expensive electrical science experiments on this having owned other Sire basses.
They both sound bad the way they were recorded. Having had a Sterling Ray 34, 24ca and Sterling short scale I can tell you the EBMM Stingray Special kicks the Sterlings where the sun don't shine in every way. When you also throw in customer service and resale value it's a much better investment.
@@JonnyDibble Closer to 3x and worth every penny. In addition you also get a nice case. I'm surprised on the weight of your EBMM, mine comes in at around 8 lb. The tuners on my a Ray34 were complete rubbish, actually chewed themselves up. Frets edges were sharp on all my Sterlings as well.
Thanks Jonny. How about a blind compare where you play both basses first without us knowing which is which? Just a quick compare, then tell us which was one and which was two, and then play some more to compare the sounds. So we don't let our eyes influence our ears so to speak. Cheers! Oh and I would buy the Sterling. The US made one doesn't sound $1000 better to me.
Hi! I’ve actually already done something like this here: th-cam.com/video/cnZNGZzlguc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cDpijGfkbGqoebwh ☺️ To me, they’re very different feeling and sounding basses. Quite easy to tell apart!
maybe the difference isn’t worth £1000 but the preamp on the sub ray4 is just so bad. i’ve got the 2 pickup ray4 and boosting the bass just causes terrible distortion, it’s the worst feature of the bass.
Even with the treble cut the Stingray sounds way too thin, the Sterling has a bit more oomph. And I'd be slightly less upset if beer got spilled on it or it got knocked over at a gig, I'd take the Sterling. 🤣
Instead of pages and pages of legalese in the T&Cs that you never read when you sign up for TH-cam. It should just say: 1. Don't be a knob in the comments.
I don’t get it? Why bother making a USA made STINGRAY if it sucks so bad against a cheaply made import , I really don’t understand. I’m waiting on my EBMM stingray 5 from sweet water to get here , and these types of videos frustrate me.
I love my Ray4, especially after upgrading to Aguilar pickup and preamp. I watched Low End Lobster's upgrades to several Ray4s and opted for Aguilar. I now keep my Ball Family Reserve Sting Ray for special occasions and use the Ray4 for everyday practice and gigs .
If you are going to pay that much for a pickup you should get them custom wound to the sound you want from a pickup maker. I have all my pickups made at Sentell and it costs less than those boutique pickups. This is not spam I'm one of his repeat customers
I am glad you are pleased with your Sentell, as I could not be happier with my Aguilar. To each his own; to me I spent my money well.
Got my own Sterling sting ray. With flat wounds it really milds out that stingray sizzle to a much more versatile level. Couldn’t be more happier. I personally hate satin finish on instruments but a gentleman told me if you buff it with polish it will turn into a normal clear coat finish. I kept my expectations low and gave it a shot and he wasn’t lying! It buffed out to what I would describe a a “worn vintage clear coat.” Couldn’t be more happier with the Sterling!
me too! Sterling by MM and Thomastik flats, and the "zingy" Stingray sound is getting immediately better!
Conclusion:
1) Buy the Sterling.
2) Replace the bridge.
3) Replace the knobs.
4) Spend the remaining £875 at your local.
You’ll feel MUCH better the next day
Replace the tuners and pickup too.
Bonus: convert the neck to fretless if you're a Pino Palladino fan.
875 for drugs so you won't notice the difference on gigs.
You don’t need to replace anything except maybe the pickups.
I have an EMG MMHZ in my Ray4. Had an EMG pre for a bit but stripped it out and just run a volume knob now. The MMHZ is a fantastic pickup!
Thanks for the rec!
@@JonnyDibble I dont know if you still have your Affinity Jaguar, but I put an EMG MMTW in mine and it sounds fantastic. I had to increase the cavity size and I Will soon shield it because it is not shielded at all (probably because the mudbucker couldn't replicate the noise).
Sterling definitely won in the tone department. That USA sounds way too thin in comparison
It does sound thin listening back, a bit unbalanced too
I have both. In a mix, with a good amp, the US stingray sings by comparison
Tighter, easier to control bottom end too
Sterling controls have alot less warmth
If anything the Sterling bass just sounded like a more subdued version of the USA model with much less bite or shimmer... Not sure how you came to the conclusion that one sounded any more thin than the other when both essentially used the exact same humbucker/pickup electronics?
USA has superior attack and a much more stable neck. I have 4 USA Stingrays, a Ray34, and two Subs. The Ray34 is actually much more of a contender to the USA IMO. I also found the Sterlings to muddy up quicker and have shrinking fretboards over time, leading to noticeable fret ends. YMMV.
I agree. The Ray34 is a better use of your money. I love mine. And you can get one used for $500-600. So we're not talking a crazy amount more than the Ray4. But a significant increase in quality. I would advise people just to wait a couple more paychecks and get the Ray34.
I actually like the Ray34 neck better than the US StingRays. At least the US models I've played frequently (2018 4H and 4HH Classic) have an extremely chunky neck front to back. I don't mind a wide neck at the nut. But these super fat necks didn't work for me. The Ray34 is wide at the nut but pretty flat.
@@rome8180I agree, with all of this (having multiple Sterling Stingrays), but would add the base-level Ray4 makes for one helluva mod platform.
I have both. The sub ray4 has this boomy very muddy sound that just isn’t a stingray..That being said it’s not bad for the money..
couldn't agree more!
I have both a Ray 34 and 35 and I’m in love with them.
Amazing!
I had buyers remorse when I bought an EBMM Stingray (special) last year, and it took playing that back to back with a Ray34 for me to solidify my decision was the right one. The MusicMan just has MORE everything, not to mention how wonderful the satin neck feels.
I had the same feeling when I went from a 2009 stealth to a 2021 special. I Canton l actually prefer the previous model
@@rl-ub9hx I canton as well
I bought the Sub 2 pickup model with the 5 way switch. It had only 3 knobs as well. I upgraded to 2 semore Duncan pickups with the electronics. It came with 4 knobs with a pullup volume knob. I paid around $500 for the hardware including a bottom input hardware and 4 black matte metal knobs and a graphic nut. The work costed and $250 so around $750. I also upgraded the ugly whote pick guard for a pearl gray on over the lime green Bass color. It was so worth it and it sounds great. My bass is heavey as well.
I have the "sub ray 4" model, older and made in China, the one with "SUB" written in giant letters.
the bass came with the factory problem that made it sound distorted (very low quality pickup and preamp), and the sound of the strings was not crystal clear, even with new strings.
I replaced the pickup and preamp with a "Seymour Duncan" combo, the "SMB4DS". The change in sound was spectacular, resembling its American big brother. Although the tuning pegs and the bridge are generic, they fulfill their function. Also, since the bass body is made of basswood, it sounds different from its American big brother.
I think that the "Sterling Sub Series Ray4" is an excellent platform to make modifications, but investing more than 500 or 600 dollars in modifications, seems to me a nonsense, considering that the "ray34" sounds practically the same as an American stingray.
Anyway, a tremendously functional and good bass, if you change the pickup and preamp, perfect for any use, both professional and amateur.
Here here
MM Stingrays are notorious for not recording well, but they sound funky AF in the right hands as a performance bass though, that tone cuts through like a maniac.
From my personal experience, playing EB MM Stingrays is a fun experience, especially when it comes to slapping. However, after the initial excitement fades, you're left with a substantial, heavy slab of ash with a thicc boi PBass feeling neck that costs more than double what most Fender Js cost.
It takes a minute to remember how fat those necks are and how much distance there is between strings when you're used to playing a Jazz. It's like getting into a Dodge Ram when you're used to driving an Acura.
Resting your thumb on the soapbar feels a little weird at first since it's so close to the bridge and not in the sweet spot on a neck pickup that we all grow accustomed to, but playing the strings at that higher tension towards the bridge is just part of the fun and helps shape that unmistakable tone.
Would I buy one? Nope. I would still prefer a Jazz even if the prices were swapped. But they definitely have a place and have been wielded by some of the best. If you really want one, buy the Stirling version, paint the headstock, or get an MM sticker and slap the snot out of it occasionally for fun.
Sorry if I missed this, but what strings were on each?
Obviously Earnie balls slinkies since it’s made my Earnie
Great comparison video. Just recently bought a 2019 mint sting ray for £1500 off reverb. Practiced with it last night and literally loved it. Sound wise, it just cut through the mix perfectly, I had the bass middle and Treble set to middle, and the band were very complimentary of the sound
As for the weight, I have A fender Jazz, a Fender P and a Mike Dirnt Signature P. In my opinion, the weight didn't feel too dissimilar too my above mentioned basses, therefore to me they weight isn't an issue.
The neck of a stingray is the neck of a P bass but without lacquered finish, so the matt finish makes it an absolute breeze to play.
12 month ago, I played the sterling and the stingray, and for me the stingray won. I have been saving for 12 months, and it was definitely worth the wait
I have a pickup modification in my Ray4 to a Seymour Duncan SMB-4A. sounds good. preamp still standard. thinking maybe an aguilar obp-1? The neck of the Ray4 is much nicer for me than the USA
4:34 finger
7:33 pick
9:52 slap
Very interesting comparison because the main sound difference between these two basses is that the MM bass has an alnico 5 pickup wired in parallel, while the Sterling by MM Ray4 has a ceramic pickup wired in series (if Jonny didn’t switch it to parallel…)
They have two difference preamps too, but in flat position they should sound very similar
I recently bought the ray 4 Walnut stain satin finish. Maybe I got lucky but I set the action and intonation and this thing plays like a dream. the tone is nothing less than stellar. Part of me says if it sounds this good stock how much better would it be with a high-end preamp? Then the other part says don't fix it if it's not broken you might break it. My other four strings are a Geddy Lee Japanese model and a Signature guitars custom jazz prototype. This bass just shelved both!
I own a '93 Stingray with the 3 band preamp, and a Stingray Classic which has the 2 band preamp. Both have the large bridge with the string mutes, but the Classic has a String thru body design. The Classic definitely has a different sound than the '93, but then I got a John East preamp for the 3 band Stingray, and with the mid knob in neutral position, thr bass and treble knob now responds and sounds almost the same as the 2 band Classic preamp.
Nice!! I’m thinking of getting a JE preamp for the Sterling 😍
@@JonnyDibble you won't regret it, well worth it
I feel like I can mimics the Musicman sound using the Sterling + EQ / Gallien Kruger Head
One thing this taste test revealed is that I dislike the sonic quality of DI and whatever amp sim was used.
A couple of years ago I came into the possession of a 2013 SBMM Ray34CA, two--band EQ, and it is a fantastic bass.
Good comparison excluding the fact that one has was twice as loud as the other, or maybe mids were dialed in waayyy to much
I bought the Sterling , and added a John East preamp. It's a monster
As a lefty... I was only able to find a Sub Ray 4 and it is my primary bass. There are moments where the USA sounds better, but not for the difference of $2000. I feel like I got a steal for Sub Ray 4. Ill slap an Aguliar in it, get a new bridge, and call it a day.
I’m tempted to go Aguilar and John East pre ❤
after playing both in a shop for a while, I had not option but to go for the Stingray it was just immediately more present.
I just got a Ray34 Stirling. I've had a lot of basses over the years. This is the best one. I've been learning slap (Funk). Never knew I could play it. I'm not bad! I might change some things on it just like I put Seymour Duncans on my Epiphone Les Paul
Honestly, the sterling ray 34 is the sweet spot for me. I’ve got the black one with the maple/rosewood neck
It’s definitely much closer to that USA Ray in specs and feel!
How about the ray24 then?
@@daltonauto nope
The worst part about the Sterling line is the naming convention that makes it impossible to find the old EBMM Sterlings. Wish they would have gone with “Sterling Ball Music Man” instead for the line.
A sterling Ray 4 and the Seymour Duncan pickup with the stock preamp sounds great. The preamp will give the bass more shape and that'll cost an additional 145 dollars. But without the preamp it sound very good. They are on sale now for 289 down from 349. I have a 1988 Ernie Ball sting ray bass and that sounds great, but they go for 2600 dollars. The resale is better, but who really cares.
I did the same thing, stock preamp and a Duncan SMB4 Alnico.
Personally I like the middle ground of the Ray34. It's a significant step up in quality from the Ray4. You can get one used for around $550. I have a friend who is an Ernie Ball-sponsored artists. I've played his StingRays many times. I actually like my Ray34 better. I will admit that his pickups and electronics sound a bit better, but I prefer the feel of my bass. The American StingRays, at least his models, have an extremely chunky neck front to back. Mine is more comfortable for me.
All that's not to say that the Ray4 is a bad instrument. It's a great value for the money. But I firmly believe mid-tier instruments are the way to go. $500-$1000 is the sweet spot for quality and affordability, imo.
MM 3 band Stingray is my go to. I picked up a Sterling 24 to tour with and it sounded great playing alone. Wouldn’t cut through the mix with the band though so I sold it.
I don't know what music genre you were playing but I think you are the only person in the world who can't make a Stingray cut through the mix....
Grt vid JD. Thank u. 🤙
I like the fact the Ray4 has less knobs. Same with guitars, I love how a Tele just has the one volume. The less the better imo🤘🏻
How about a sub $500 Sire V3 bass against both of these you are testing in this video. How would that stand up to these?
If you look at the actual eq curves of the eqs, “flat” isn’t flat, and the curves of the two band and three band are quite different. There really is no flat, you just dial to taste.
I have a sterling ray 24 like a jazz bass but with a humbucker mahogany body maple neck rosewood fretboard 😊
I’ve owned multiple Ernie Ball Music Man Stingrays and Sterlings. My #1, never get rid of bass if my EBMM natural Stingray. That being said, I’m thinking about getting a Sterling Ray34 as a back up.
I personally do not like the lowest/cheapest tier Sterling has to offer. They feel and sound cheap to my ears.
Are all ray 4s short scale ?
Straightaway I liked the sound of the Ray 4 What about the Sterling Ray 24??? Have you compared the two?
I’ve reviewed the Ray24! It’s better sounding imo
I really like the neck quality of the musicman. It's like high end quality furniture grade baseball bat. No its not needed but I appreciate the extra finishing and quality that goes into that. A sub series would still do the same job and sound great and last you just as long.
Base tone of the SUB sounds better, but preamp/EQ way more useful on the USA
I would gladly take a Music Man if it was given to me or if I could afford one but I've own a blue stained SUB before and they feel really nice especially the neck. The stock sound isn't bad but after hearing what Lowend Lobster did with his SUB upgrade series owning a Music Man sounding SUB sounds like a really good option, Now the bridge is something I wish you could find a replacement for 😕. Now with all that said I am currently playing an old OLP MM2 STINGRAY that is passive yet still has that Stingray growl and it feels closer to a Music Man than a Sub, I got it for $100 at a pawnshop
Two band eq vs three band eq, thats quite different , i own enbmm stingray two and three band eq, always prefer 2 band eq, owned few Sterlings 34/SUB and bongo tu, but my best stingray is 1989 two band eq, playing and comfort i will choose Sterling USA and bongo 4.
The necks feel VERY different.
I have a Musicman and love the punch, brightness, and bottom end, especially if you're slapping. It has a little more depth to the notes but I was surprised at how much bottom end the Sterling had. It sounded a warmer and a completely different tone, kind of like the MIM Jazz basses. I might get a Sterling as a backup bass, it sounded good.
Where's all the distortion coming from?
You know it's a serious video when Jonny tucks his shirt in
Ive got a Ray 34 in black and they are closer to a older music man pre 2018, i wish i could afford a real Music man they are $2700 or more now. On a side note i have a G&L Tribute L2000 and a CLF L2000 they sound nearly identical but the CLF fells much better.😊
The question here is: what is the bass suppossed to sound like? And, for what type of music? Yes, the more expesive has more attack and definition. But the cheaper version actually sounds like like a bass should.... bassy, especially in a mix.
i have a sterling ray34 thats a bit over 13 lbs its like a boat anchor but its the best sounding bass I have ever played.
The pickup is a bartolini and the preamp is Ibanez. I believe Ibanez is making these in Indonesia.
personally i like the sound of the sterling ray4 better! i don't want a trebly or as some put it so well, ''thin'' sound on a bass..go figure, i want a bass to sound low and powerful?! i guess i'm just not a ''professional'' ..anyway, ''THIN'' is how the MM sounded to me! plus i like a smaller fender like NECK as i have on my fender jazz/p bass. looks like ill be saving some money on this purchase, maybe with some mods later as you suggested, or start with a sterling 34 , but for now i think the sound on the sterling is killer, and much closer to what MM is known for!
All in all, a small tonal difference, nothing an eq and comp cant compensate for, and would probably not be of importance in a mix anyway.
Are the string the same (brand, gauge, wear) on both? Because for example a brand new set on the US one and a worn in on the other could totally explain a big part of the difference between those two.
This is the first time I've seen ANY brand's USA model be so distinctly different -- and in this example, better. The Sub sounds good, and I wouldn't ignore it... but the EBMM actually has the distinctive StingRay sound. If it's possible to upgrade the pickups / wiring for less than 1000, the Sub might be the better option. (I have a black-on-black OLP StingRay I'm pleased with, but it's passive circuitry, so sounds pretty much like a Precision.)
As a usa musicman owner I will say at least get a ray34/35. I owned a sub previously and it was honestly not good at all. Now the ray34 is another story. If I could do it all again i would save some money and have gone with a ray34.
Ive got a sterling short and an old USA SUB model. Love them both but the import definitely just has a "cheap" feel to it. I think its the knobs that really turn me off.
I’d really like an old USA SUB!
@@JonnyDibble it's passive too! I bought it used around 2006, think I only paid $300 for it 😎
I got a cheap cort gb24 pasive MM stile, it sounds more to stingray than any sub.
But the Sterling keeps beeing a stingray to me ❤
Sterling may sound similar, but make not mistake is a whole different instrument than the Musicman. Decent entry level option, but I have the hunch the Sire model will be closer to the OG
i think the ray 34 is the best compromise as far as quality, sound and price.
The sterling sound fuller, warmer and more balanced than the MM american. Sure, a compressor would do wonder on the MM, but that bass is 3k, it shouldn't NEED one. I'd go for the ray and upgrade the tuners and bridge.
Thanks for the comparison.
There was a clear difference in treble.back to back the sub sounded muffled and lacked definition as a solo instrument. It was as different as a P bass and J bass.
Worth noting the Sterling has a MUCH bigger preamp output as the pickup is wired in series. Our ears tend to fool us to think louder is better!
Agree with you and I modded my Sterling with Hipshot tuners and a Nordstrand pickup/preamp combo....all sourced as used parts = Killer bass.
This is a great point
So you’ve changed everything in your Stingray
@@ibanezmnm Yep, all electrics swapped. My aim was to get a 70s Ray tone in a super-playable bass for under £400.
That's right i changed my subray pickup wire that series to parelle it's sound more close usa Stingray
I was just gonna post that it was wired in series so that would make it sound thicker, I don’t really think this video is fair comparison to be honest.
I have a stingray special HH, and I have played the Sterling imports, for me the real stingray sounds better, especially if you adjust the EQ, i’m not saying the Sterlings are bad but there’s a definite difference in quality, especially with how it feels in your hand, no compensating nut, the knobs feel cheap. The tuners feel cheap, the bridge is cheap, The neck is just not the same caliber as the real deal, though it’s not bad.
The tone difference is amazing. I think the sub is good for beginers or anyone who wants to play a stingray on budget. Whereas the usa one is something to work towards
What I notice is that the preamp on the ray4 is horrible. If you boost bass it will be distorted, if you boost treble it will not sound bright at all. Just a dull sound. The music man preamp is great, but I noticed that there is some humming on the signal. Perhaps it needs a shielded cavity. My two cents of all that is that is better to buy the Ray4 as a modding platform and replace the parts yourself. Better wiring, pickups, tuners and bridge
A truer comparison would be a Ray 34 to that Stingray. The Ray 4 would be closer to the new Stingray Retro that is a 2 band
You’re not wrong
With me it does all come from the feel, and thats with any brands usa to os models. I have a ray24ca and a ebmm stingray special. The weight for the 18+ models was fixed and 24 volts for the pre help there. I do like the 1.5 width neck of the ray24, but it feels like you can easily snap that neck. The neck on the ebmm feels strong and much better then the ray24. Now money wise, I've been blessed with the ability to own a USA ebmm, but the sterling models are just as good to give you everything from the ebmm. The upside I give sterling is that they are so cheap, if you're a tinker, you don't feel bad replacing everything on it to your spec. The end of the day just play and enjoy your instrument. PS turn that thumb up when you slap boss man. It will change you slap game ten fold.
I skipped ahead and thought the white bass was the cheap bass. Either way, both basses sounded the best at times, but overall, especially towards the middle to end, the white bass sounded better, and sometimes very noticeably
On Sterling, just lower the pickup under the low strings and it will sound better.
Sound advice! (Literally)
Nordstrand do a good MM style pick up.
Yesssss 😍
The Nordsrand Bigman 4 is an absolute monster of a pickup. I've got one paired with the Darkglass Tone Capsule preamp and couldn't be happier.
I disagree. I've owned both and there's virtually no difference. That's a drag for the American worker but a great deal for the consumer. I know Music Man are constantly changing their design. My Sterling Ray from a few years back has 4 knobs and the same exact bridge as the American version. . I think what you compared was a cheaper model.
This is the latest sub series Ray 4
@@JonnyDibble Ah, I have the Ray 34. Once again, MusicMan does an absolutely horrible job of naming their models. they all have a similar title!
Yeah the MM has that spanky stingray sound, that i don't particularly care for.. except it's magic when slapping. If I could slap, I'd slap a MM.
Also, as an American, of course we have more knobs!
I can’t believe how trebly the stingray is with it cut entirely
Treble central
The 2 band and 3 band preamps are entirely different that affect the tone. The 3 band has a high pass filter that filters out the bass then adds it back later. The 2 band doesn't have that and it has more punch. All my Stingrays have 2 bands
I think the best approach is buy the USA StingRay used.
Want a Leo Fender designed bass ?
Get a G&L ! Thus no need for an US one, the tribute series are quite good.
I’ve reviewed two tributes and they were really good!
Having had a Sterling and now a Stingray i have to say the Stingray is far better in every department. Sorry if that goes against your narrative but it's true. In this case you get what you pay for.
I face this conundrum too! I have the exact same ray4 and love how playable it is but the electrics are slightly distorted. I also bagged a sub £1000 USA stingray this summer and while I love it, I worry about certain venues with it!
Do you mean a “SUB” branded USA Ray?
@@JonnyDibble sorry no. I mean a sterling sub ray4
You can fix that distortion problem with a simple pickup swap. The stock pickup is too hot for the preamp. I’ve had excellent results from a $99 SD alnico pickup.
@@prestachuck2867 I have an SD 1/4lb sitting in a squier Jaguar at the moment doing nothing. Would this work?
I've had 5 rays. 2xUSA, two subs, ray34 snd USA sub.The 34 does the US thing so well which the sterling unmodded misses not by much. The USA sub can be got for 600 quid and its a full fat US. Could also mod a sterlingvwith the stinger 77 pre. There's one on basschat at the moment Johnny😮
Wow, A full Ray Parade! I’d really like to try one of the USA Subs
@@JonnyDibble do if you can get one. Slab body but apart from that. Mates laugh at me I love the sound but can't get on with playing them 😆
Woops 6 rays by the way
Having owned a USA stingray….the Sterling wins. The tone is better and the pricing of these USA Stingrays are priced just stupidly now.
The Stingray is £1k at best price bass being sold for early £2k it’s just silly.
I own both USA Stingray 5's and Sterlings. I very much prefer the unfinished meaty neck on the USA model to she shiny skinny J shaped neck of the import. I use Subs at jams and playing in grungy bars where my Stingrays can get damaged or stolen. On the SUB, I have no problem with the tuners. I also find the stock preamp and pickup as good when set up properly. I don't understand people dumping more money on mods than they paid for the bass new. Rarely will you see people post real videos of a stock SUB to a modified one and chances they enhanced the modified one is possible because they paid all that dumb money for it and they want to show it is better. The USA is significantly better. The SUB is an exceptionally good bargain basement bass that looks like a Stingray. Sterlings are now in trouble with the Sire Z series Stingray clone which is in the same price range as Subs and import Sterlings but come with 18 volt electronics, rolled fretboard edge, 3 band eq, more cutaway on lower horn so you can easily access high notes, string through body and many more features. You will not likely need to do expensive electrical science experiments on this having owned other Sire basses.
They both sound bad the way they were recorded. Having had a Sterling Ray 34, 24ca and Sterling short scale I can tell you the EBMM Stingray Special kicks the Sterlings where the sun don't shine in every way. When you also throw in customer service and resale value it's a much better investment.
I disagree, but I agree MM have the best sound! The Special is probably 2x the price of any sterlings though so I’m not surprised 😀
@@JonnyDibble Closer to 3x and worth every penny. In addition you also get a nice case. I'm surprised on the weight of your EBMM, mine comes in at around 8 lb. The tuners on my a Ray34 were complete rubbish, actually chewed themselves up. Frets edges were sharp on all my Sterlings as well.
If people catch up on the quality of the Sterling by Musicman Rays, it could be a Warwick situation all over again, or maybe not!
USA blew it away,,,and I own the sterling!
I think I heard that Steve Irwin used to be in a band and was the bassist.
Did he play a Stingray or did a stingray play him??
My sterling ray35 is so good. The price of the musicman is simply too expensive for me.
The Ray34/5s are great! Definitely closer to that MusicMan feel
Thanks Jonny. How about a blind compare where you play both basses first without us knowing which is which? Just a quick compare, then tell us which was one and which was two, and then play some more to compare the sounds. So we don't let our eyes influence our ears so to speak. Cheers! Oh and I would buy the Sterling. The US made one doesn't sound $1000 better to me.
Hi! I’ve actually already done something like this here: th-cam.com/video/cnZNGZzlguc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cDpijGfkbGqoebwh ☺️
To me, they’re very different feeling and sounding basses. Quite easy to tell apart!
I have the that exact sub bass I think it’s great I just wish they made them with the mid control
The American MM, has superior build quality, tone and resale value.
Why buy a USA Stingray? For no other reason than bragging rights, obviously (I say this as someone who owns both a SBMM and EBMM bass)
maybe the difference isn’t worth £1000 but the preamp on the sub ray4 is just so bad. i’ve got the 2 pickup ray4 and boosting the bass just causes terrible distortion, it’s the worst feature of the bass.
The Sterling won but I think you should have cut the mids off on the USA to get a true comparison. Not center detent
Great Review! My preferred sound would be somewhere in the middle between these two basses - so I would not get one of either.
Even with the treble cut the Stingray sounds way too thin, the Sterling has a bit more oomph. And I'd be slightly less upset if beer got spilled on it or it got knocked over at a gig, I'd take the Sterling. 🤣
That’s always a good feeling!
Yep, prefered the sterling sound, the USA one sounds over the top and thin
I agree, too powerful.
No comparison IMO, the USA one beats it hands down.
Sterling has the chunkier sound than the USA
You get what you pay for, Music Man is the best by far..
Two band EQ is better sounding.
Instead of pages and pages of legalese in the T&Cs that you never read when you sign up for TH-cam. It should just say:
1. Don't be a knob in the comments.
It’s simple really
The better Quality in the Music man is quite noticeable. Overall sound is much more uniform and clear. You get what you pay for.
USA has much better sound, tone shaping and overall build quality.
Show us the pots, show us the cavity and the pre-amp. This Sterling has crap pots and a crap Indonesian wired bullocks 😮
I don’t get it? Why bother making a USA made STINGRAY if it sucks so bad against a cheaply made import , I really don’t understand. I’m waiting on my EBMM stingray 5 from sweet water to get here , and these types of videos frustrate me.
Preference at the end of the day, it’s all subjective
Well, Musicman Stingray is waaaayyyyyy better!