Rigol DHO800 Oscilloscope Fan Upgrade Experiment
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ย. 2023
- Rigol DHO800 Oscilloscope Fan Upgrade Experiment
Part 1 thermal test: • The Rigol DHO800 Fan(b...
Fat Delta:
www.digikey.com.au/en/product...
www.delta-fan.com/Download/Sp...
Skinny Delta:
www.digikey.com.au/en/product...
www.delta-fan.com/Download/Sp...
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#ElectronicsCreators #Rigol #Oscilloscope - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Respect for Dave actually shutting up 3.5 seconds to measure noise level! 🎉 3:38
I would mount a large/slow fan on the VESA mount instead of little fast ones inside
Exactly what I thought also. Or maybe print a separate enclosure for a fan which could be mounted on those VESA screw inserts.
Exactly my thoughts 😂
Same here. A noctua 80 or 90mm probably
Yeah it's 100*100 mm vesa. So a simple 100 to 92mm adapter is all that's needed
Yep, seems to be the best way. I had to try it though.
I think the culprit here is the regularly spaced radial fins. Rigol has inadvertently copied the design of an air raid siren. The air flow varies depending on whether the fan blade tips are aligned with the fins, or with the spaces between the fins, so you get a pulsing air flow--otherwise known as sound. To fix it, you would need to minimize the interactions between the fan blade tips and the heat sink fins. Options are: 1. switch to a larger fan outside the case; 2. find a fan where the number of blades doesn't have a common factor with the number of fins; 3. use a smaller fan, or mill away the heat sink fins where they are nearest the fan, to create some space between the fan blade tips and the fins, or 4. if there is space, insert a ring of thin open cell foam between the fan blades and the fins to diffuse the air flow.
Awesome post! How do you feel about opening up the plastic exhaust holes on the back panel? It could boost airflow, which might boost noise, but maybe one could slow down the fan...
@@dosgos It seems like that would probably help, if you don't mind making changes that can't easily be reversed.
@@danmenes3143 That made a huge cooling difference on some thin laptops. But there are downsides to lugging around a laptop with big holes in it.
Sorry I should've scrolled down before I replied I guess I should read other peoples comments I agree with you, good on ya mate.
@@dosgos Indeed. I wasn't going to get into that, as I thought it was obvious. Any extra dust, houseflies, or cheese doodles that find their way into the scope after such modifications are not my responsibility.
I built cabinets for recording guitar amplifiers. I bought super quiet fans. What I learned is fans themselves make almost no noise in free air. It the surrounding structure is where most of the noise comes from the noise comes from. I put a speed switch on the fans.
Just get older like me. Turn off the hearing aid if it's too loud.
genius
1N4001 in series using original fan would have been my first choice.
I don't really get their original choice of fan, that sort of frameless fan is for mounting on a heatsink to blow through the heatsink, a frameless centrifugal blower fan would be much more suitable for this application to blow sideways across the heatsink generating less noise trying to blow down into the solid heatsink. Those fans are of course less common but modern laptops use them all the time so they are still common enough to be cheap and most have low noise oriented designs. Also those sharp edges look nice but are just asking to make noise from the turbulence particularly when the blades are so close.
Yes, there is quite the difference in the fan noise free on the bench and then next to the heatsink fins.
Usually for heatsink designs like that, the airflow direction is reversed, with the case acting as a duct and the fan exhausting hot air, thus pulling cool air through the fins. At least that is the case with many new WiFi routers using active cooling. Usually it offers a cheaper way to cool a large number of components. for example, on my RAXE500 router, the same type of heatsink is mounted to the top of the motherboard, and cools the SOC, WiFi radios, 2.5GbE chipset, and a few other components. On the bottom of the case are a series of vents as well as other components that essentially have heat spreaders. The exhaust fan at the top pulls air into the bottom vent, over the heatspreader, then through the fins for the top mounted heatsink before being exhausted.
Though in the case of the router, it has multiple thermal sensors, and it varies the fan speed, in addition to turning the fan off when temperatures are low enough. The fan curve when it does turn on, is fairly silent. It basically won't come on with a basic load of just saturating the Ethernet ports, but it will come on if you saturate those ports while using its VPN server and USB storage at the same time.
@@EEVblog2 Plus putting a thin cover over the heatsink fins, so as to direct the airflow between the fins, will help a lot as well. 3M VHB tape on the fan will , with clean surfaces that are grease free, pretty much never let go. You do get it in 0.6mm thickness as a double side tape.
The fan acts like a siren against the heat sink with the open blades. If the blades had a circular ring affixed them maybe two thirds the blade height. The noise would be reduced significantly more.
@EEVblog2 Smaller Delta fan actually can be quieter because its blades shape is optimized for tangential outflow! You should try it
Wondering if messaging Noctua for a collab would result in anything. I mean, they are the Internet's low noise heroes.
The problem is that they have designed a siren. I think the only way to fix this thing is to take the heat sink out and grind away the fins so they're well removed from the edge of the fan blades.
Undervolting a fan isn't without risk.
As fans get older, bearingfriction increases. With undervolting you run the risk that the motortorque isnt enough to overcome the startup friction (which is much higher than running friction) at some point, resulting in a non running fan (therefore overheating).
More complex systems, with rpm monitoring, can monitor this, but not here.
Maybe the Fan does get started with 12V or is temperature regulated?
Since this Osci has thermal protection nothing will happen except that the device will shut down, so you know that something is wrong and can search the cause.
Many fans have a driver ic that shuts down the fan when it is blocked. I have 100 fans from different brands and products and some without brands that all have the stop function embedded into their driver ic chip, when it is stalled the driver ic pulses the fan once half a minute to check if its stalled or not and does not when the fan is just spinning. Even the simpler 4 pin ics have the function
Most fan noise is mechanical radiation. The mechanical vibration in the fan is coupled to the metal heatsink. A couple of tricks: 1) buy a fan with two bearings (not cheap plastic sleeve), 2) isolate the mount with some form of rubber washer which will attenuate the coupling, 3) If available buy a fan with serrated edges - as an experiment you can take a conical Dremel sanding bit an gently add serration to the leading edge of the blades. Think about the little mechanical music box mechanisms. Off the surface they make very little noise - fasted to the surface they are quite audible. In this case you want to break that connection. An interesting observation is a well isolated fan of good quality lasts longer.
you have two different types if blades on those deltas, one is for airlow, the other is for pressure. wont pull as much air but is used for more restrictive areas. im also thinking the ideas seems to be to pull air in and push it out sideways like a blower , wondering if an actual blower fan would do better
11 blades on "skinny Delta fan" vs 9 blades on original fan vs 7 blades on "fat Delta fan". The more blades the higher airflow. With comparable RPM, angles and forms of the blades, of course - but quantity (RPM and the number of blades) matters more in the airflow capabilities of different fans of almost the same size.
Try some more fan options suggested below by your "fans"!
Also, consider adding some temp sensors to adjust the fan speeds as noted belw.
I guess the fan blade tips running close to the heat sink fins generates noise. Just like old ww2 claxon air raid sirens.
A smaller diameter fan might be quieter?
Yes, but saller would have to run faster for a given air volume.
Exactly what I was thinking. The design of the heatsink, with its regularly spaced radial fins, is the culprit. It really is very reminiscent of the design of a siren. I think I would try switching to a larger fan outside the case, or if I needed to keep everything contained, see if I can add some lightweight open cell foam between the fan and the fins. Anything to separate the tips of the fan blades from the fins or break up the pulsing air flow.
no, use flat fan with pitched fins to slice the air shockwaves
Those high airflow values near the fan are not actually real. The magnet inside the fan is messing with the hall sensor inside the anemometer.
Also, maybe another solution would be to fit inside there the fan from a 40mm or 50mm blower fan?
Would the original fan start-up on 5v, and be less annoying at the lower voltage, while cooling adequately?
Is there temperature protection in this oscilloscope in case the cooler breaks down or stops rotating?
Plan B: Cut out a square hole on the rear plastic cover for a decent fan and keep on probing.
😎 I replaced the fan screws from my MSO5000 with a set “Silicone Anti-Vibration Fan Mount”. Less mechanical resonance !
Imagine if they'd gone with like 20mm bigger and it might be no-one would be complaining...
aside from the buffeting effect the heatsink creates if yiu got rid of the *grill* on the back it would also help with the noise.
What about a little rubber gasket between the fan and the body? Feels like the fan itself is not loud, but the vibrations it's passing onto metal is?
SO cool i'm interested on My own osciloscope tektronic tds 2002
The "Whiny" may start only if the fan is mounted since the fins of the heat sink are in a regular pattern. The "Raised things" on the case or even the regular holes are a classical whiny source.
Make the first silent water-cooled scope or with heat pipes going to a big radiator on top!
Quality nerd snipe moment at 10:25 "...the vibration, oh my god.. I wonder if we can pick that up?" 😂
Oh no! That crazy Aussie bloke killed one of his fans!
I thought of buying this scope, but I am sick and tired of all these Mosquito noise fans manufacturers engineer into everything because it's "Cheaper". Give me a slightly larger case, larger fan and rubber mounts for it any time. I want (NEED) my bench QUIET!
My old gear is all modified with noctua's on rubber isolators. Peace and quiet with lot's of airflow.... perfect for the Audio bench.
Lol @ the Anemometer. We've all had that problem. 😅😅
You could just mount a 120mm AF silent fan on the outside, still would be a slim scope.
I think if someone makes an addon battery/usb hub/Fan/vesa pack to mount to the back.
Also might have to also slow the main fan.
Maybe it could have a probe holder/pen holder as well.
Funny thing is, they accidently created an air siren!
As long as it's quieter than my Agilent 53181 Freq Counter, I'd never hear it. It's fan runs 24/7. 😀
Drill press, tap set. Good to go.
But the question remains, is it good for what it was designed for?
If only there was some sort of oscilloscope thingy you could have done to display the frequency and amplitude of the sound, standardized at 1 meter. I bet one of those would be real handy if they're ever invented and sold at some time in the future.
You mean a microphone.
Yea that would be an awsome invention.
One downside might be the almost closed, flat bottom of the cooler, where a big amount of the airstream would be directed from the blower. It then escapes in the directions to the fins. I guess, it's not the best airflow design.
Thermal RPM control perhaps.
Such a shame they went through all of the effort of designing a nice affordable scope and then stick this total afterthought of a piddly fan into it. Almost as if case thickness was the actual design goal from the start.
I would change the screw holes to screw slots on the fan themselves to make them fit rather than tape or glue them down.
Oh been waiting to see what a replacement fan would be like. Cool deal.
It's 2 degrees hotter, actually.
@@Okurka. hah yeah I realized the unintentional pun in what I said, nice 👍 😁
Try the EVERCOOL VIDEO CARD FAN 45X45X10MM VC-EC4510M12S-X, its slightly better CFM as The Skinny Delta, but 20dB instead of 29dB of the Delta
So the bottom and top are inlets
Is that VESA mounting bracket at the back? I mean... if it even close to 120mm, you know what to do. , some 3D printed brackets and NOCTUA FAN!
In this application need radial centrifugal ventillators. This type is axial.
It is a shame that both Rigol and Siglent ruin their nice devices with this small bumblebee fans. Their devices are usually the best value for the price, but I hate the noise they make. I wish that at least they would have enough space in their designs, to allow being upgraded with a nice 140mm Noctua fan.
Please anybody donate a good fan to Dave for this scope. Otherwise, I guess, we'll be waiting for him to find a good silent fan solution forever. Silent enough to start making the review.
If you want a scope with a quality fan inside, then buy a Rohde & Schwarz scope.
Ha ha!! The hilarity! He showed a photograph of where the anemometer was hiding. Just think of his mindset as he put this video together for us. "I'm not just going to introduce the anemometer willy-nilly! NO! I've got to craft and spin a tale of hide and seek then insert photo of culprit in the act of hiding in plain sight..."
Never let a good adventure go to waste.
Dave need to mill out a larger fan space to allow him use a larger fan - or just wait a few years and he won't be able to hear it any more anyway.
Bigger holes in back of case. Maybe dremel out some plastic and put a mesh screen outside.
And make the VESA mount even weaker?
@@Okurka. Good point. So would need to add some reinforcement too!
Or just a full size 120mm fan strapped to the outside lol
The Fanboys will be happy....🤣
Another one for Dave's OnlyFans!
Might want to look up how a squirrel cage siren works (I just saw that others have made similar comments). You're making almost the same thing. Double-sided tape is not a way to mount a fan on a HEATsink. It gets soft when warm. That's why Rigol spent the money to use screws. Be careful about advice offered on TH-cam.
I feel like the caseback causes the turbulence with all those pointless holes.
meanwhile, I'm still using my old TDS644B which produces about 150db continuously...
Seems like noone at rigol took ever apart a laptop!
What if you used a bigger fan on the outside of the case?
My workstation has three 200mm fans that I lower the speed on. The thing is silent and everything stays below-hot, a healthy 58 C max at peak gaming load. Both liquid cooled GPU and CPU / my 200mm case fans pressurize the radiator air flow enough to do the job.
What happens if you zap-strap a Yate Loon D12SL-12 on the back? It'll be quiet on 8v, and they'll run happily on USB 5v as well.
There are countless suitable silent PC fans you could mount externally.
@@EEVblog2 I was thinking about one of the Won Hung Lo or Kow Dung Bouffant xp2000 series"PROFESSIONAL" fans.
For a design like that, I wonder if they could use a fan grill and a 140 or 120mm Noctua fan (or even a low profile 120mm fan) then use one of the low noise adapters, and just run the fan at around 300-400RPM where they are effectively silent but can still offer more airflow than a basic 40mm fan.
The high points on the case were probably for air flow, so you just buggered your Rigol!
Now you assume the thermal design was done properly, but there are few signs of this being true.
Just get a be quiet! Silent Wings 3 non PWM 120mm fan and make a VESA adapter to fit it on the VESA mount of the scope, connect it to the 8 Volt and it should be inaudible. Bob's your uncle.
If I want to silence my scope, I simply turn on the HP6632B.
You should have worked around the original fan and optimised that with lower voltage to see what is possible there in regards to temp..not solely some thirdparty unit 10:42 , that most people will have issues to sort not to mention the cost and having to risk that plastic cracking with a sidecutter and no moungting spot and tumble any small hope for warrenty on these new units..
Would have been most interresting to sense what is possible with the least effort, and not cracking the units structure - as just putting resistors on the main fan is something anybody could do in a few minutes without any hazzle or postage time and VAT import cost...and its easy to mount, no glue or risk for it to get loose, but the results would likely be around the same as with these thirdparty fans.
but great video +1 with the pursue to optimise a con that annoys many..
I do have the Rigol signal gen pro that will be release her ein the west in 2024 (DGXXXPRO) and its the same formfactor and the fan is annoying as.. definitely been a problem the last 6 weeks in use, as it is loud to have running, and the start up time is 65sec so +15 sec. more then the DHOxxx
I always remove those useless small fans and replace them with a slower turning larger fan.even if you have to mount the fan at angle to the heat sink it is better than that annoying whine of small fans.
6:35 Rigol why the f did you put the logo right over the fan and blocked half of it?!
No wonder it's all whiny!
The 9V proves that they realised it's too noisy...
The grill design itself is also piss poor, they have holes all over the heatsink where as there should be nice inlet for the fan, most of the heatsink blocked and then some wents where the heatsink ends and exhausts the air, this way you force more air to go all over the heatsink, instead they recirculate hot air and have most of the fan pressure exit halfway-thru the heatsink...
I would place the fan on the bottom, have just standard fan inlet without wanky hex design, have some straight finned heatsink and then have exhaust vents on that slope under the handle, this way it goes along the natural convection.
Spend the $12 on an upgraded anemometer...
How bout just slap a 120mm Noctua on the back? :P
Just CNC the crap out of that heat sink and put in a 90mm fan instead.
Why don't you do a full review of the oscilloscope first!?
But there was a rewiev.
@@volodymyrzakolodyazhny7740 no, it was a quick teardown. Dave plans to do a full review later on.
Because the fan is annoying lol
He's too busy making non-EE related videos.
@@volodymyrzakolodyazhny7740 Dave wrote on eevblog folum: "I do plan on doing a full review video on this scope. If you watched my live show yesterday, I talked about the process."
I am waiting for a colab between linus and you to watercool a scope :). (Nah i am kidding but it would be cool)
They could use the $800 waterblock.
i think most people dont own this slim oscilloscope Sir
Delta ≠ high quality
Why don't you use your Threadripper heatsink and fan?
Lots of whining in this video.