People missed the point of Kevin's role in the ending of part 1. He wasn't a villain, he was a tragic hero that stood against the heroines to test their mettle, to test if they could come up with a better solution to the honkai crisis, his commitment to project stigma was only because was the plan with the highest success rate, it wasn't the best plan by any stretch of imagination. The girls came up with the better solution, showed their resolve and his duty of 50000 years was finally fulfilled.
ye actually think kevin is a very solid character. the point of him is that Kevin is unable to move on from his past which is why he believes that he must carry on stigma or why there are multiple scenes with him and fu hua together. It's to contrast the 2 they are both from the previous Era but one was able to let the past stay in the past while one wasn't. But the thing is kevin wants to be able to move on but has faced so much tragedy throughtput hia era that he doeant belive he can. It also contrasts well with the main characters of hi3 because almost all of them have a theme based on their connections to the past like moving on or carrying on the messages from the past
Waait... You telling me this isn't something people can deduce on their own? I was skipping the story a lot and it was kinda obvious... Especially after his conversation with Kiana and or scenes with Dr.Mei
@@D14V0R05 I fucking am surprised. Especially after reading other commments... Like, it was so explicitly stated that Kebin was doing all of this as a last resort and to test the girls. I actually like the direction a lot, it was something new and hopeful.
what deux ex machina if you meant the spirit bomb shit it didn't do much besides destroying kevin's defenses(hotr was about to destroy his shields herself till ai was like wait) and kiana and co went back to fighting him
I personally didn't mind Ai-chan shenanigans much because the message of the characters themselves was delivered very strongly in the end imo, and I legit cried a lot in the Kiana vs Kevin friendly iconic bat fight (like a granddaughter playing with her grandpa for the last time before he dies...) followed by the "dream" of Kevin suffering coming to a end but with a happy reunion with his family, the Flamechasers🥲 Also Raven giving up to Mei in their fight was understandable after all they being through together. Mei got HUGE amounts of development thanks to Raven, her rival, showing her that the colors of the world aren't all that pretty, allowing her to mature a ton to keep going strong on her journey (especially through ER story, with it's many tragedies).
That deux ex machina killed and was the last nail in the coffin of the chapter for me, all the hard work and efforts of the girls become just irrelevant, the worst of all was that Kevin's shield destruction, like, seriously?
I think you're putting way more importance on the shields and they even made sure to point out that hotr could've destroyed them herself if she did what she did in otto's arc but on a grander scale which you damn well know is possible considering she's in metamorphosed form the whole ai thing is essentially a meta way for devs to thank the players and I don't believe it destroys the arc as much as people tend to believe
@@fukou6077 yeah then why not let the girls do it then? if we can interfere in the first place why dun we save himeko lol or in fact everyone else? What is the limitation of our powers to begin with? Why do we only interfere at this point? Why not we just kick finality in the butt in the first place before any of this happen? this is a poor attempt at meta at the expense of the entire plot. Sure this one isn't the biggest issue with the whole thing, but it is definitely one that sticks out.
@@alexhaxy6346 wtf are you talking about? captain is a higher entity within the honkai universe they CAN'T directly interfere with the storyline think of SU situation in part 1.5 but unlike him the supposed higher entity the captain doesn't really have any beacons in place to interfere. The AI lambda being a time crystal entity was able to interfere due to symmetry breaking(caused by the time space fracture due to project stigma the logic is similar to how Elysia was able to exist) and she sorta acts like a bridge between the hi3 storyline and the captain. It's a one way street tho while captain(us) can observe the hi3 world the hi3 worldline can't due to the virtue of the captain existing on a higher plane. So no the captain can only really observe but can't do anything to help Kiana and co out in any meaningful way. As for the hyperion blast at the end its essentially a spiritual blast that was made possible miraculously due to everything aligning but make no mistake it was merely an act of devs somehow making the players involved(courtesy to ai lambda again) within the story of kiana and co. Its supposed to be just that and nothing more. It doesn't add much besides the whole meta narrative for players to sorta appreciate and move onto the actual fight which you can see as soon as the shields gets destroyed we're back to fighting kevin again and once you overpower him again kevin calls kiana in to transfer the remainder finality authority to her.
@@fukou6077 Then why not let the protags do it themselves if they can? Aren't they supposed to prove to kevin that they are capable of surpassing him rather than relying on an accidental summoning of eldritch gods? So now that ai chan exist why not we just keep interfering? what is stopping us? Of course we gonna ass pull some reason so that we cannot do that until when plot convinience demands it. The matter of fact is this is a poorly done meta narrative. Even disregarding if it really affects the plot itself or not, the way it is executed has effectively diluted the overall fight itself on top on the already compounding problems with the arc itself
@@alexhaxy6346 They did that tho? THEY DEFEATED KEVIN PERIOD MY GUY. The Lambda help was a fluff that got rid of the shields bro lmfao it didn't beat Kevin or even weakened him. He was already being overpowered by the trio which is why he even assumed the defensive stance in the first place. HOTR was about to blast off all the shields with Selenes in her metamorphosed herrscher state but lambda was like let us handle the filler shit. That's it. You're waffling mostly so I'll ignore everything you've said cuz you make 0 sense. Lemme repeat it again for you for the last time. KIANA BEAT KEVIN NOT AI LAMBA OR CAPTAIN. KIANA SURPASSED HIM AND HE GAVE THE AUTHORITY HE STOLE BACK TO KIANA. Stop making shit up that's not even there and instead read the chp again. Its pretty straight forward. Lastly, it doesn't affect the plot in any way you can remove ai lambda scenes and nothing of significance would change the fight would just happen without there being any meta narrative present which wasn't exactly the issue with arc. The main issue was the handling of Kevin's climax. Compare it to Otto's finale and you'll see the glaring holes pretty visibly. Even if you keep the current story, to save Kevin(I'm saying this but I still really liked his conclusion but I can't deny its rushed and bit poorly handed) all they had to do was to give the arc one more chp if that's too much, extend the Kiana vs Kevin battle and then further expand on it via a climax cutscene. Passing the mantle onto Kiana should feel significant which they cheaped out on heavily and it kinda happened at the end which is what I really dislike. None of what you're saying is a problem tho. Disliking the meta narrative is one thing tho if you didn't want the inclusion of it at all then I get it but then just say as much and don't make bullshit ass scenarios and conclusions.
2:23 One day, after dinner, while my younger sister and I were lounging about in Mr. Gopher Wood's yard, we spotted a fledgling Charmony Dove all on its own. That baby bird was tiny, it didn't even have all of its feathers, and it couldn't sing. When we found it, it was already on its last breath, having fallen into a shrub - probably abandoned by its parents. We decided to build a nest for it right there and then. However, thinking back, that winter was unusually cold, with fierce winds at night in the yard, not to mention the many poisonous bugs and wild beasts in the vicinity... It was clear that if we left the fledgling in the yard, it stood no chance of surviving until spring. So, I suggested we take it inside, place it on the shelf by the window, and asked the adults to fashion a cage for it. We decided that when it regained its strength enough to spread its wings, we would release it back into the wild. The tragic part - something that we'd never considered - was that this bird's fate had already been determined long before this moment... Its destiny was determined by our momentary whim. Now, I pass the power of choice to you all. Faced with this situation, what choice would you make? Stick to the original plan, and build a nest with soft net where the Charmony Dove fell? Or build a cage for it, and feed it, giving it the utmost care from within the warmth of a home? I eagerly await your answer.
Pretty sure both the Kolosten and the Moon Arc was written by Fanchuan (格陵兰帆船) who also wrote AE and Durandal's visual novels (I think he also wrote the Sea of Quanta arc?) and is now in charge of part 2. Shaoji had nothing to do with it. Who is the writer you're talking about?
i was about to comment that while they had some weak points like this being the beginning of them way over explaining things during the story, that it was well done and that our standards are just super high because it's an amazing game (star rail basically had the same plotline and people adored it)... and then you brought up Ai. i'd uhh... i disliked her involvement and immersion break in the story so much i'd scrubbed that part of it from my mind entirely
The difference between star rail and hi3 was the overall visual quality of penacony and advertisements. So many high quality pv's and animations. So many high quality ingame cg's and a way better,harder and memorable boss fight which was definitely better handled than Kevin boss fight which felt like an ass pull
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 Imagine, the battle against the last boss, being concluded so quickly because Ai pull an ass power of frienship move, even worse, there was not a cinematic for the final fight? like wtffffff?
@@PabloIsaiasJaramilloFranco also I didn't like how Kevin did like no damage even in hard difficulty. Also his phase 2 and phase 3 mechanics are literally the same. Boss music was decent but should have had a vocal song like apho or something on the lines of vita boss fight ost at least.
@@PabloIsaiasJaramilloFranco Why you people still dont undestand that Ai was never a deus ex machina, they told you in the same time you mention that part that Kiana, Mei and Bronya already had the power to defeat Kevin and Ai just wanted to show them that we (captains) and she where always observing and cheering for them
Penacony has about the same issues as part 1 ending. Im guessing its not as hated because part 1 had souch build up to live up to while penacony didnt Problems that get solved really easily by a 3rd party acheron/Ai. Long winded philosophy or dialogue that can be made shorter and antagonists ultimately ending up helping the protagonists. I will say penacony definitely isnt lacking in tension which gives it a huge leg up against the moon arc.
I genuinely was disappointed when they retcon the whole Will of Honkai thing into the Cocoon of Finality, felt like the hype from the past 30 chapters went down the drain, then the whole Ai-Chan fiasco happened, that's my Final Straw before uninstalling after finishing Part 1. Then, I decided to read up GGZ/HG2 Reborn Arc ending, now I wasn't expecting much at first but when the stakes keep getting higher & higher that's when I realise this is exactly what's missing in HI3 ending, GGZ Will of Honkai ending fight was a banger, blowing my expectation out of the water.
it was said in elysian realm that there is no will of honkai, so the 30 chapter thing is meaning less, cuz ER Kevin hinted of the fact that there is no will
@@NightSlayer-DayBreak Yes, that's what's called a retcon. It didn't start in final chapter, but it doesn't change that. We all know when the story direction changed
@@Doralga ……….It was revealed literally that MEI planned for Prometheus to become the Will. ER is before this plan. so the PE warriors knew that, The will dont exist. CE kevin Knows of The will, Cuz the most probable outcome was, The will being Made from After ER Was created. those that make any sense? and i now understand that it could very well be a retcon on the Will of Honkai entity, but it was still planned ahead by a year before the Will being fake was revealed. the Hint that it was planned ahead by the devs, is A couple flame-chasers, having no idea of the will.
Elysian Realm retconned so much that even before the Finale some of my friends did not like how much was changing lore wise that they were having doubts of the finale. and when the Finale came they decided to quit not just Honkai impact but all miHoyo games. they felt it wasn't the same game anymore.
I haven’t done the moon arc, but from what I heard they didn’t like the overflow of exposition, the cop-outs with the narrative aspects of characters getting yanked into the story for some reason and the fact that it apparently wasn’t as good as the other arcs. I myself cannot judge this, I’m finishing up ER and Thus Spoke Apocalypse and if the moon arc is as bad as people claim it to be, then it’s just a bad chapter in a pile of good and great ones
Ill be honest, I think the biggest hatable point about the moon arc is just how its written. Sure, the lack of active threat from Kevin made the stakes and the timer aspect of the moon arc fall flat. Remember how in both the Elysian Realm arc and in the Phosphorus arc the characters were actively being hunted while the main characters, Mei and Fu Hua, are trying to find a way to win. Sure, Ai Hyperion is the worst character ever made. The moment she was introduced I hated how she was just a cheap solution to the problems the arc presented. But the way in which the story is delivered was dialogue. And said dialogue was so weirdly written. Sentences were massively drawn out. People werent talking like people. Its so annoying to read these long explanations and getting like 2 percent of it because conclusions and opinions are so badly mixed and abruptly spawned. The moon arc requires a rewrite and im so sad that the end to this genuinly amazing story feels so bad.
HI3rd part 1 should just get a standalone remaster or remake where not only the gameplay/animations/models/vfx get revamped but also certain arcs get writing improvements to give the players a better story execution, or heck even rewritten in the case of the blunders Moon Arc made.
I honestly feel conflicted about big ai chan. it did make players feel a sense of involvement in the story while being questionable lore wise at the same time. as for kevin and the whole world serpent throwing the game, they actually did lol. there are four plans in saving humanity and one of them is just as successful as project stigma, which is the more idealistic project ember. mobius devised project stigma as the last desperate surefire plan to avoid finality while project ember relies in uncertain hope of the people in current era is better than previous era. humanity is saved either way but kevin has to make sure kiana deserves to wield finality before he can finally rest and reunite with his gf.
some people say this change of pace was because of changes of the screenwriter. they say it isnt the same guy who wrote the elysian realm arc. personally i slept on this entire arc. after they announced part 2 i quitted
The villains in this arc other than Grey Surpent, feel like they don't really believe in project stigma in the first place. Jackal got fired. Raven doesn't care about the project, she just wants to get the kids to safety, and Hare very intentionally helps the heroes. The man Kebin himself, feels like he's just doing it because his girlfriend says so.
That's more or less the point behind it, they know it's necessary, but nobody likes the solution, so they hope that someone has a better solution. Kevin's fight against Kiana and co is more or less "if you can't even stop me, you've got no chance against Finality".
Congrats, that is the point of Kevin. He is a very simple-minded man caught in multidimensional alien conspiracy and humanity search for ideal. He didn't care - he wanted his world, girlfriend and ball back.
It also kind of ruins the reason he was even thrown into the Sea of Quanta by Su in the first place. to prevent him from using Project Stigma early when in the finale he Never event wanted to use it and waited until Hare found a better non violent way to start it.
@Gilgamesh-em6ru he didn't try to kill main heroes or implement project Stigmata after escaping. So it makes sense - otherwise authors needed to give him another reason to not do these two things.
The issue with the whole thing in general is the lack of stakes, the protagonist aren't really in danger at any point because no one is really trying to actually fight them. They also got their power ups with practically 0 consequences especially kiana, she almost died just holding 2 cores at one point and now she just hold the power of finality without breaking a sweat let alone any struggle while kevin is having his body rotting away just from holding the power and sustain himself with his hyper regeneration. Another instance is theresa is put into the trolley problem but end up never having to make the difficult choice anyway because she just limit break her gene which as she claims she might mutate into something unrecognizable (she literally just grows up for a brief moment like LMAO). We know kevin never really want to fight the protags, but even then finality itself is also just ok kiana we cool now u get to be the god. Then the dues ex machina that is Ai-chan, basically just solving every problem for the protag where older chapter even if its the power of friendship they at least struggled to achieve it. I am not asking for a doom and gloom ending, I am expecting a happy ending but through the efforts of the protags and the clash of ideals with kevin, then overcoming the obstacles not getting handed for free by plot conveniences. The list of issues I have with this arc is way too much to even list here and I can write a thesis on it, but these are the glaring ones.
Though you had a point about Ai Hyperion appearance kind of destroy the normality of how the story supposed to be tell in HI3rd, her sudden appearance show that not all issue that protagonist confront can be solve through brute force. Like how during when they were trap inside certain Stigma space after riding the lift at New Atra. Protagonist is dumb after all because they don't know the concept vessel of Herrscher (exp Kiana) and Stigma Awakened (exp: Durandal) is a counter existence to each other became the main cause they were trap there. I mean who can blame them for relying on Ai that actually know what's going on. Ai just been there to avoid their bad future by rush their development.
@@RaykinaBreaker i disagree with this take. Sure ,the mc cannot solve every issue. But that's what the side cast is for. At that point of time,there were still a few brainiacs around . Bronya,Tesla,Einstein,welt and nagamitsu were present . They could have done the exact same thing ai did,but with these characters. What this would do is give screentime and relevancy to characters which we don't think about that much. Ai chan magically appearing and fixing everything makes the entire hi3 cast feel like kids with superpowers which they obviously aren't.
I think the player's inclusion could've worked if it was framed as something like "the mcs broke us out of the spiritual adam and now we're joining the fight annd though we're weak individually, we're strong together"
My issue with HI3's writing is that it often leans too much on the emotional side, and while emotions aren't bad at all, its just too much here that any sense of logic and reasoning is often thrown away.
@@Luis-325 pretty sure that it's the entire opposite in moon arc. They tried to make too much sense out of everything,which in turn not only convoluted the story making it borderline unreadable but also significantly lessened the emotional impact at the end.
@kallenlivesmatter3229 To this day I don't understand how the concept of ideas (regarding Misteln) works I understood how the adam worked but Misteln's existence felt kinda thrown in for Bronya to have her moment 🫠
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 Compare that with Final Lesson, which is so emotional, that you feel it even if the cutscene is your first contact with the game.
@@shuka_madoxes remember Kevin said about replacing humanity with a new lifeform which honkai can't invade. Yeah that species is misteln. She is proof that project stigma works. She is also proof that project stigma sucks.
honestly they could've handled it more like the voices of those from project stigma vs the heroines, restraining them and preventing them from acting, but AI turns up and channels aid from "everyone", as a voice of the people striving for a future. This can then lead to two versions of Spiritual Adam (perhaps an Adam and Eve symbolism, with Adam being the original hive mind but the Spiritual Eve which brings change is made from a "rib" from Adam). We can then get a kaiju battle as a visualisation of the conflict rather than a shield. Then AI and our role can be less a deus ex machina but perhaps our role was to obtain a fragment from Adam and collect power from hopeful minds. This way the conflicts and growth of the valkyries can still be preserved but giving a role for us to fulfil. It could be that the trials they go through lets us and AI gather fragments of Adam to repurpose, leading to the whole Spiritual Eve thing. but ig I can't say much since what can I do about it
Hot take incoming, but I really liked Ai Hyperion and her inclusion in the story. Her debate with the Grey Serpent on the nature of humanity was really touching
I liked Ai, I think she was neat. What I didn't like is when she went from tapping on the fourth wall as a thanks to the players from the devs to taking a hammer to it. The narrative feels like it could not have been resolved without that fourth wall breaking asspull and it just soured the experience regardless of my enjoyment of the rest.
Bro still can't move on from moon arc. Moon arc was terrible. It had good moments, but overall one of weakest arcs. Honestly, for me probably even chapter 1 of part 2 didn't felt as bad as finale arc, which says a lot.
Yeah people can't move past moon arc when that's when a lot of players quit the game. and it wasn't because it was the finale but because of how they felt it ruined the story.
The moon arc wasn't terrible at least for me, mostly because the ending is so beatiful that make me feel like "ok, i can forgive this arc" but yeah the overall of the moon arc was still not good
I actually really like the Moon arc. My only problem with it was, surprisingly even for myself, with Prometheus. She was not even our original Prometheus (Will of Honkai), and is most definitely y dead. But the story demanded her to live, and so by some plot shenanigans, Misteln pulled her (and her alone) from that one dying bubble universe to come to our own. And somehow nobody questions anyone about it. This was after much retrospection from myself. It was surprising even for me because I really really love Prometheus. I just can't defend how forced it was.
il be honest i personally loved the moon arc and had no problems with it the emotional moments that came with it were very good and i liked how we got to see Bronya's mom. also i love graduation trip it literally made me cry like a fcking bitch for an hour the first time i saw it then i went to see others reaction to it and i cried even more xD. after that i was sad as fuck knowing that Kiana's story is over. its not my favorite arc that still stands to either the domination arc because it was so fcking good and we got to see Himeko again and how much Kiana grew as a person and for me it made her my favorite female mc in fiction and made me love her even more and i also consider her to be the best one in fiction,Nagazora arc because it showed us how Kiana would chose to sacrifice herself in order to saver others even if it meant dying and how Mei would chose to side with the "bad guys" in order to save Kiana the person that saved her in the past or Otto's arc because i love him he is my favorite villain in fiction and i consider him to be the best and most human villain in fiction since his arc and manga showed us how much more he sufferd in the past just because the people from his time and familly were corrupt and in the end corrupted him with the last thing that completly turned him evil being Kallen's death. and we see throughout the game and manga that he still cared and loved the people close to him even though they were few with the biggest example being Theresa he loved her and he didn't want her to die like Kallen did since she resembles Kallen a lot and she is basically her reincarnation and he knew it was possible she could die protecting others like Kallen did and how even as a villain he still help't the ce by lying about turning back the time to make everyone fight him so they get stronger and be able to win against the honkai while also achieving his goal to give Kallen a second chance at life since she sufferd unjust death from a world that rejected her and he didn't care if it cost him his life because for him Kallen gave meaning to his life and showed him its worth living by believing in him something the others didn't not even his familly. and i believe that if we were in his place sufferd the same way he did and had to live for the past 500+ years with the thought of guilt being responsible for someones important death which he was in way but not the main reason Kallen died i guarantee we wouldn't have been better in any way than him i personally wouldn't have been better. also we know that he was not proud for the crimes he commited but had no choice and no one hated him more than he hated himself. summery every arc is Peak and everyone should play Kiana's story at some point even though u might not like that the story is a 3d visual novel.
I’m going to be honest and I know I’m going to get destroyed for this but I actually liked the moon arc, there were actually a lot of good moments I enjoyed in the arc such as Kiana and Mei’s reunion and reconciliation, Siegfried’s rescue Kiana calling Durandal her big sister, and a few others. My only problem with the arc is due to the whole thing with Prometheus being the Will of Honkai and how there was never one in the first place unlike with GGZ and was replaced by the Cocoon of Finality, I guess it was meant to be a plot twist and if it was well they did it poorly do to no build up to it. And of course the Ai-chan pretty much happened in the final battle but those problems didn’t take away my enjoyment of the arc and I thought it was a good conclusion to Part 1.
I think the moon arc should have been at least double the length, hersher of truth is really dumb imo. Also the meeting up of kia mei bron should have had more time on it, they all have substantially changed. Not to mention how theresa could have gotten literally anything. All this combind with how it was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy for the trio made it kinda fall flat tention wise.
Before watching this : Yes! after watching this : YES! Honestly I expected the same hopelessness and despair like GGZ but we got a happy ending earlier than GGZ itself and I want to see the trio fight Will of Honkai.. instead we go whatever nonsense ai.... Compare complete menace from ggz
They rushed everything. For example the "touching" reunion of the trio, Mei was behaving oddly, like pretending she gave a crap about anyone not named Kiana. Even we had a lot of chapters where Bronya had her life in danger, and Mei didnt have a decency even mentioning her in her internal monologues. They did a bad job selling the 3 best friends, it kinda screwed Mei charactarization, making her one dimensional character for the rushed KiaMei reconcilation. And Man... at least Kiana and Bronya friendship was beliavable. I feel that Bronya took the L in this Arc (kinda) Then we had that whole thing with Ai Chan
truth to be told, out of the trios, Mei seemed to always get the short end of stick in terms of writing and characterization. There is the ice herscher arc where we had the oppurtunity to explore the parallel of ana schariac/owl and Mei/Kiana, both refused to kill their loved ones even though they are a potential threat of killing millions of ppl and maybe confronting if she is ready to save kiana at all cost and becoming like otto but nooooo lol. iirc there is a brief moment showing mei did came to terms that she might lose kiana in this skrimish but its barely given any focus. Finality arc is just badly written in practically every aspect, the most comical part about bronya is when she teared up about kiana's "sacrifice" of having to sit on the moon with wifi and they get to play games together online. it would probably be a bit more believable if its Mei instead since at one point she is almost ready to let the world die to save her but even that is stretching it because the price of defeating honkai is way, way too cheap lol (kiana gets a vacation on the moon).
In my humble opinion, the moon arc wasn't just flawed in one or two ways, but in almost all ways. Retrieving Siegfried didn't even make it into the summary. Because both the setting up and resolution parts were sidetracked. At some point in the arc, Durandal gets embarrassed near Kiana. Which is just out of character for her. We have seen her being level headed for an entire story up to that point. It felt like a cheap trick to make a plot point about them being sisters. You can argue against this point of course, people aren't just stereotypes. However, this writing inconsistency becomes apparent when "surprising" behaviours start to pop up everywhere. We have become no strangers to all characters becoming a philosophy professor. My immersion was broken long before lambda. dialogues were not written in a natural way or in character. Then there's the handling of Kiana and Mei's reunion. Again, done in the easiest and brief way. Mei's behaviour is not addressed by anyone when she's effectively a parallel to Otto. My memory is fuzzy since I played the arc at release. These are some of the points that I remember. Also, I think I had a worse experience with penacony, if that's indicative of my perspective. The community opinion on it seems to have shifted since. Although nowhere near as bad as the moon arc.
@@yubato334 i dont agree about the mei point. I don't think she has done anything worth addressing especially in comparison to otto. If anything,it makes more sense comparing her to durandal because she was working under someone who was evil/supposedly evil for her own benefit. Mei saved Kiana from corruption,took out a two in one herscherr ,weakened HoD and unknowingly and indirectly took out HoC too . I think she brought way more positive effects in world serpent.
@kallenlivesmatter3229 How does this info weigh in the eyes of other characters though. The reason Mei joining the world serpent was such a big deal, was because it was seen as an evil organisation. We all know the serpent captures/kills herrschers, but it wasn't clear which goal that served. Kiana questions Durandal's motivation when she has the first chance. Durandal genuinely believes it's for the greater good. Which is somewhat true at the least. Meanwhile Mei's whole concept was being a sinner, she had horns etc. It was a selfish action, although it didn't amount to bad actions in the end in contrast to the build up. Perhaps because people didn't like their waifu turning morally gray.
@@yubato334 pretty sure that the others accepted mei's decision. Theresa understood and accepted that. Durandal and Rita were unbothered. Bronya never met mei from ch 10 to ch 32 so she probably doesn't have much context. Fu hua was dead and it's probably another Tuesday for her. Kiana had already understood mei's decision and we see that in ch 24 I think? Where they were connected for a brief moment. Kiana questioned durandal because otto commited evil deeds personally, instead on paper. She had personal experience with otto so it makes sense if she didn't understand why Durandal was with him. Kevin ever since his release from the sea of quanta has been going around saying he wants to eliminate honkai. You cannot really question WS about their shadiness when their leader is upfront about their actions. WS has conducted human experiments but that's it for the most part. Every faction has done that. There is nothing extraordinary evil to point out about WS unlike otto. On the contrary they have eliminated 3 herscherrs and they also stick to their own plan instead of bothering other factions. There isn't much reason to question WS by ch 33 . Nah, although mei was a sinner in her perspective, she was not, in the audience's or the cast's perspective. I think that's what you criticised the arc for . I don't really think that mei's plot could have been anything different since ch 17. Mei leaving had to amount to something or that entire arc would have been for nothing. Plus,she joined the strongest faction. There was little to no possibility that anything could have happened to her.
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 Otto committed evil deeds personally, and wasn't arc city all about evil deeds of WS? WS eliminated three herrschers, so did Schicksall. The cast didn't just oppose WS, they opposed Kevin directly too. Welt and Bronya said they'd never agree with his ideals in SoQ. Killing herrschers should be expected of WS, I don't see why they'd change their stance up to ch 33. If Mei isn't "supposed" to be a sinner in ch 17. That challenges my whole understanding of the story, I'd need more time to decide whether that's actually the case. If it is, I don't agree with the message/moral of the story.
I see some ppl in the comment who said they hate the final arc so much that they uninstalled the game. I dont mind giving constructive criticism for the sake of improving the game, but don't use excuses like I don't like Moon Arc or Ai chan to say u wanna quit the game. To me, these ppl already hate the game and are just finding a good excuse to quit once and for all. I agree the Moon Arc has flaws and isnt good by HI3 standard. But most of the flaws were there for a reason. The story was rushed with all the tiring exposition cause they have to wrap everything up in the Moon Arc. Retcons are made to better expand the Honkai world (HSR) and to craft a more "romantic" ending. And finally Ai-chan was there as a thank you to all the Captains. They also tried their best to make sure her involvement wasnt too disruptive and take away from the charaters' efforts. In the end, did all these work out? Depends on who you ask. But one think is for certain, the HI3 crew did this cause they want to give back to the Captains who has supported the game for years. I don't see why a bit of, be it bad, 4th wall breaking and rushed story writing is really such a big problem when the it was done in good faith? So are you telling me you hate the HI3 crew so much for appreciating you and trying to let you involve a bit in the story? to the point of wanting to delete the game?
1:34 Being 'unkillable' is kind of hardly the point. Only that they'd be able to exist along with the Honkai without -it- killing them. 6:12 Hard to say with this picture when the only one ever truly depicted as a fanatic up to that point has always been Grey Serpent. Raven and Jackal were clad in personal agendas. It certainly comes off as weird when the narrative paints the World Serpent as an ancient illuminati cult with worshipers hiding everywhere, but ultimately the 'face' members of the World Serpent are too individualistic for that and we only hear bits and pieces of the faceless members that contributed. A large weakness of HI3 has always kind of been how the world in general comes off a bit vague without side material. Like, that are sometimes contradicting points that make you question how much information about Honkai, AE or Schicksal is actually public in current times in spite of the 2nd Eruption. Just being told that Himeko found no European university offering space engineering courses so she went to the US paints a picture of the politics when you know Europe is Schicksal territory and the US is an AE stronghold... but it's not something you get a sense of in the main story. If we go by what is shown is more important than what is said, then what is shown is "You, the player are valuable to the narrative we made". I guess it's not what many players wanted to see, but it's what some at Hoyo wanted to tell. Will you the captain 'at the bridge' every day and your assistant ever be acknowledged in the main story ? Nah, you've been banished to the Captainverse and this is the last chance before an uncertain future that will they be able even hint at it. You and AI-chan are seen as convenient tools because you have long been denied from being a part of this narrative of love and friendship. You can only exist as an observer, someone who is both as distant and close to the story as the storyteller themselves and AI-chan could only be there because of Project STIGMA. Narratives are the backbone of the Project STIGMA arc. It posits that civilization is humanity's narrative and thus is the sum of humanity's value. Therefore, the preservation and continuation of human civilization is more important than the form humanity takes. The fact that the players are able to have a hand in supporting the main characters in saying "No" means that they too have value in steering the narrative of humanity. Since everyone in the 'story' are 'characters', only the perspective of an outside observer can judge whether they, as characters are truly the masters of their lives(story). However since the 'observer' is in truth a collective of the players, they themselves will deny this 'interference' as needless. People love it when there's a reference or fourth wall break that makes them feel like they're being acknowledged, but once they feel the potential that 'others' are contaminating their favorite thing they instantly become defensive at this 'tribute'. So, for them it's more important for the narrative(story) to remain 'untainted' and pristine, true to their ideal narrative over acknowledging the existence of different people(players). Much like Project STIGMA which upholds the ideal of civilization. "My game isn't like those other games. The way I enjoy things are superior. I don't want my game to move on and make it feel so my favorite characters matter less." A person among billions are able to believe that they matter... yet somehow their favorite characters won't matter anymore if no longer given the utmost attention. HI3 is the game that threw HoD at you. So, how come Kiana always win, they asked ? If the collection of hate and malice against the game wins, then the game may die for daring to not kneel to it. Kiana's story continued because love for the game still outweighs the malice pointed at it. Though, in reality the game's taken a lot of hits from the players all the way to the authorities... it says something that Hoyo's bold enough to still keep attempting this shit even if they can't actually manage to change the status quo.
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 Aliens not wanting to kill everyone is good. There are quite literally no people who have seen publishing War of the Worlds - it's that old. And it made perfect sense with all stuff about using humans as envoys. Also, whole game was pretty much about "there is no absolute evil". Kevin is a tragic hero, pretty good one at that. Immortal guy with immense power who just wanted a normal life and wasn't given it. PROMETHEUS monologue about humans placing value on useless things and therefore living in half-fiction is crazy good. Bronya arc was a mess - Misteln didn't make it worse. Just logical conclusion to already pretty bad arc. They could have introduced Misteln much sooner and make sense of Bronya stances, yes. But they didn't, and that isn't on Moon Arc. Kiana didn't die because that actually makes no sense. Like, be a good human, break your spine, spent your best years fighting for humanity. And die. Very bright message, even if pretty true. Honkai is "romantic" game, Moon Arc even said so itself. It believes in better outcomes compared to more real life scenarios. Direct 4th wall breaks are bad, pretty much. Especially when Bronya could just lay 2 weeks in hospital without including that scene.
and great lore doesn't mean great story, u can have the greatest lore written but if yr story execution fails its meaningless, and about their lore they get retconned so many times I wouldn't even call it great
@@alexhaxy6346 maybe you didnt get it cuz of complicated nature of story, thing is honkai lore is complex and that is exactly what makes it great and theroriticize on it and the thing from last arc are stilll being referenced or further explored in current storyline so yea those people wanna read simple stuff go read simple story line, honkai lore always been like onion layers bit by bit its comes all together
@@yami7509 How good the lore is plays no part in the problem that the video and everyone else had mentioned. It is the lack of stakes, kiana getting her authority for free, theresa got served a trolley problem but end up not having to choose anyway and then told you about the consequences of overusing her power which ends up just having her grown up for a while. The general lack of urgency because no one is actually trying to go against them and other compounding problem of just characterization thrown out of the window. These are the story problems and its different from the "lore" itself. Stop defaulting to "you don't understand the lore" everytime someone criticize the badly written narrative.
I cleared part 1 and after just quit. Ending wasnt what i expected, hoyo should have sealed kiana with no contact on the moon. Instead they made her like she is just living next door and plays soccer with siegfried and welt, like cmon. And part 2 was so unappealing, plus after some part of the story hoyo completely removed male mc because of "lore". Until Honkai Impact starts releasing male characters including flamechasers, welt, siegfried and otto, i truly have to desire to come back. Game is just going the coomer bait with recent characters with ults like taking off their socks, etc. Part 1 was good tho, would recommend anyone to play it, elysian realm chapters more than others
It was great, doomers only remember the intro science instead of the beautiful metamorphosis of the Trio and the Philosophy between Durandal HoS Kevin and Hua etc. They don't even understand the love message from the Dev with Ai-Chan that was already foreshadowed in her story event. Literal love letter showing that Honkai is what it is thanks to all of us and those kids complain. It was a beautiful ending. It's time to look at the whole instead of focusing on the 1 or 2 "worse" segments among dozens of amazing moments
Your take on World Serpent is wrong, all of them always where in for they own desires, the most fanatical ones where used as the base of Project Stigma and where put in the dream first, Natasha was always just a mercenary and just cared for the children, Cleo was only using WS to get advanced tecnology and when she wasnt needed she give up as she understood she lacked the necessary qualities, Misteln was only doing the minimal as she was only in WS because her last self was the one that joined, the Gold Gray Serpent was the only one true to the project, even the normal Gray Serpents only wanted to live normal lifes and we know that because the sacrifice and conversation when the server got shut down, in the end the Moon Arc was just Kevin as the antagonist and the odds where always on his side, only the joined efforts of everyone did everything necesary and showed Kevin how they could save humanity ultimately thanks to project Ember as Elysia and MEI always wanted
Homu Labs getting consistent and Potato Almanac uploading might be Honkai's impact
I enjoyed but I definitely prefer the HSR approach of “it’s magic we don’t gotta explain shit”
Isn't that just Power of Friendships? Lol
@@HECHG2 funny enough, I thought the Power of Friendship worked really well in the Penacony finale. It made sense with the path of Harmony.
People missed the point of Kevin's role in the ending of part 1. He wasn't a villain, he was a tragic hero that stood against the heroines to test their mettle, to test if they could come up with a better solution to the honkai crisis, his commitment to project stigma was only because was the plan with the highest success rate, it wasn't the best plan by any stretch of imagination. The girls came up with the better solution, showed their resolve and his duty of 50000 years was finally fulfilled.
ye actually think kevin is a very solid character. the point of him is that Kevin is unable to move on from his past which is why he believes that he must carry on stigma or why there are multiple scenes with him and fu hua together. It's to contrast the 2 they are both from the previous Era but one was able to let the past stay in the past while one wasn't. But the thing is kevin wants to be able to move on but has faced so much tragedy throughtput hia era that he doeant belive he can. It also contrasts well with the main characters of hi3 because almost all of them have a theme based on their connections to the past like moving on or carrying on the messages from the past
Waait... You telling me this isn't something people can deduce on their own? I was skipping the story a lot and it was kinda obvious... Especially after his conversation with Kiana and or scenes with Dr.Mei
@@mandolen3317 You would be surprised -_-
Yup he literally let the girls go so they can actually have a chance fighting him when they first met and battles on the moon
@@D14V0R05 I fucking am surprised. Especially after reading other commments... Like, it was so explicitly stated that Kebin was doing all of this as a last resort and to test the girls.
I actually like the direction a lot, it was something new and hopeful.
Everything was ok before the deux ex machina
everything was ok before sentience
what deux ex machina if you meant the spirit bomb shit it didn't do much besides destroying kevin's defenses(hotr was about to destroy his shields herself till ai was like wait) and kiana and co went back to fighting him
Ai-Chan be like: don't worry lads here comes the 'Power of Friendships'
@@fukou6077 nope
I personally didn't mind Ai-chan shenanigans much because the message of the characters themselves was delivered very strongly in the end imo, and I legit cried a lot in the Kiana vs Kevin friendly iconic bat fight (like a granddaughter playing with her grandpa for the last time before he dies...) followed by the "dream" of Kevin suffering coming to a end but with a happy reunion with his family, the Flamechasers🥲
Also Raven giving up to Mei in their fight was understandable after all they being through together. Mei got HUGE amounts of development thanks to Raven, her rival, showing her that the colors of the world aren't all that pretty, allowing her to mature a ton to keep going strong on her journey (especially through ER story, with it's many tragedies).
i really liked following kevin and seeing his story but i feel like the final bat scene was kinda goofy and off putting imo
That deux ex machina killed and was the last nail in the coffin of the chapter for me, all the hard work and efforts of the girls become just irrelevant, the worst of all was that Kevin's shield destruction, like, seriously?
I think you're putting way more importance on the shields and they even made sure to point out that hotr could've destroyed them herself if she did what she did in otto's arc but on a grander scale which you damn well know is possible considering she's in metamorphosed form
the whole ai thing is essentially a meta way for devs to thank the players and I don't believe it destroys the arc as much as people tend to believe
@@fukou6077 yeah then why not let the girls do it then? if we can interfere in the first place why dun we save himeko lol or in fact everyone else? What is the limitation of our powers to begin with? Why do we only interfere at this point? Why not we just kick finality in the butt in the first place before any of this happen? this is a poor attempt at meta at the expense of the entire plot. Sure this one isn't the biggest issue with the whole thing, but it is definitely one that sticks out.
@@alexhaxy6346 wtf are you talking about? captain is a higher entity within the honkai universe they CAN'T directly interfere with the storyline think of SU situation in part 1.5 but unlike him the supposed higher entity the captain doesn't really have any beacons in place to interfere. The AI lambda being a time crystal entity was able to interfere due to symmetry breaking(caused by the time space fracture due to project stigma the logic is similar to how Elysia was able to exist) and she sorta acts like a bridge between the hi3 storyline and the captain.
It's a one way street tho while captain(us) can observe the hi3 world the hi3 worldline can't due to the virtue of the captain existing on a higher plane. So no the captain can only really observe but can't do anything to help Kiana and co out in any meaningful way. As for the hyperion blast at the end its essentially a spiritual blast that was made possible miraculously due to everything aligning but make no mistake it was merely an act of devs somehow making the players involved(courtesy to ai lambda again) within the story of kiana and co. Its supposed to be just that and nothing more. It doesn't add much besides the whole meta narrative for players to sorta appreciate and move onto the actual fight which you can see as soon as the shields gets destroyed we're back to fighting kevin again and once you overpower him again kevin calls kiana in to transfer the remainder finality authority to her.
@@fukou6077 Then why not let the protags do it themselves if they can? Aren't they supposed to prove to kevin that they are capable of surpassing him rather than relying on an accidental summoning of eldritch gods? So now that ai chan exist why not we just keep interfering? what is stopping us? Of course we gonna ass pull some reason so that we cannot do that until when plot convinience demands it. The matter of fact is this is a poorly done meta narrative. Even disregarding if it really affects the plot itself or not, the way it is executed has effectively diluted the overall fight itself on top on the already compounding problems with the arc itself
@@alexhaxy6346 They did that tho? THEY DEFEATED KEVIN PERIOD MY GUY. The Lambda help was a fluff that got rid of the shields bro lmfao it didn't beat Kevin or even weakened him. He was already being overpowered by the trio which is why he even assumed the defensive stance in the first place. HOTR was about to blast off all the shields with Selenes in her metamorphosed herrscher state but lambda was like let us handle the filler shit. That's it. You're waffling mostly so I'll ignore everything you've said cuz you make 0 sense.
Lemme repeat it again for you for the last time. KIANA BEAT KEVIN NOT AI LAMBA OR CAPTAIN. KIANA SURPASSED HIM AND HE GAVE THE AUTHORITY HE STOLE BACK TO KIANA. Stop making shit up that's not even there and instead read the chp again. Its pretty straight forward. Lastly, it doesn't affect the plot in any way you can remove ai lambda scenes and nothing of significance would change the fight would just happen without there being any meta narrative present which wasn't exactly the issue with arc. The main issue was the handling of Kevin's climax. Compare it to Otto's finale and you'll see the glaring holes pretty visibly.
Even if you keep the current story, to save Kevin(I'm saying this but I still really liked his conclusion but I can't deny its rushed and bit poorly handed) all they had to do was to give the arc one more chp if that's too much, extend the Kiana vs Kevin battle and then further expand on it via a climax cutscene. Passing the mantle onto Kiana should feel significant which they cheaped out on heavily and it kinda happened at the end which is what I really dislike. None of what you're saying is a problem tho. Disliking the meta narrative is one thing tho if you didn't want the inclusion of it at all then I get it but then just say as much and don't make bullshit ass scenarios and conclusions.
2:23
One day, after dinner, while my younger sister and I were lounging about in Mr. Gopher Wood's yard, we spotted a fledgling Charmony Dove all on its own. That baby bird was tiny, it didn't even have all of its feathers, and it couldn't sing. When we found it, it was already on its last breath, having fallen into a shrub - probably abandoned by its parents. We decided to build a nest for it right there and then. However, thinking back, that winter was unusually cold, with fierce winds at night in the yard, not to mention the many poisonous bugs and wild beasts in the vicinity... It was clear that if we left the fledgling in the yard, it stood no chance of surviving until spring. So, I suggested we take it inside, place it on the shelf by the window, and asked the adults to fashion a cage for it. We decided that when it regained its strength enough to spread its wings, we would release it back into the wild. The tragic part - something that we'd never considered - was that this bird's fate had already been determined long before this moment... Its destiny was determined by our momentary whim. Now, I pass the power of choice to you all. Faced with this situation, what choice would you make? Stick to the original plan, and build a nest with soft net where the Charmony Dove fell? Or build a cage for it, and feed it, giving it the utmost care from within the warmth of a home? I eagerly await your answer.
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i think this happen because the main writer of hi3 quit after otto arc...
as we all know, shaoji is the one who handle elysia-arc and next arc...
Pretty sure both the Kolosten and the Moon Arc was written by Fanchuan (格陵兰帆船) who also wrote AE and Durandal's visual novels (I think he also wrote the Sea of Quanta arc?) and is now in charge of part 2. Shaoji had nothing to do with it. Who is the writer you're talking about?
Nope fanchuan never quit, you can still observe their traces in part 2.
Nope Shoaji were never heavily involved with Elysian Realm arc at all
I dont mind ai shennigans mainly bc all the messages were elysia simping which was too funny
I was confused, there's so much dialogue to read. I start not understanding what they're talking about
i was about to comment that while they had some weak points like this being the beginning of them way over explaining things during the story, that it was well done and that our standards are just super high because it's an amazing game (star rail basically had the same plotline and people adored it)... and then you brought up Ai. i'd uhh... i disliked her involvement and immersion break in the story so much i'd scrubbed that part of it from my mind entirely
The difference between star rail and hi3 was the overall visual quality of penacony and advertisements.
So many high quality pv's and animations.
So many high quality ingame cg's and a way better,harder and memorable boss fight which was definitely better handled than Kevin boss fight which felt like an ass pull
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 Imagine, the battle against the last boss, being concluded so quickly because Ai pull an ass power of frienship move, even worse, there was not a cinematic for the final fight? like wtffffff?
@@PabloIsaiasJaramilloFranco also I didn't like how Kevin did like no damage even in hard difficulty.
Also his phase 2 and phase 3 mechanics are literally the same.
Boss music was decent but should have had a vocal song like apho or something on the lines of vita boss fight ost at least.
@@PabloIsaiasJaramilloFranco Why you people still dont undestand that Ai was never a deus ex machina, they told you in the same time you mention that part that Kiana, Mei and Bronya already had the power to defeat Kevin and Ai just wanted to show them that we (captains) and she where always observing and cheering for them
Penacony has about the same issues as part 1 ending. Im guessing its not as hated because part 1 had souch build up to live up to while penacony didnt
Problems that get solved really easily by a 3rd party acheron/Ai. Long winded philosophy or dialogue that can be made shorter and antagonists ultimately ending up helping the protagonists. I will say penacony definitely isnt lacking in tension which gives it a huge leg up against the moon arc.
I genuinely was disappointed when they retcon the whole Will of Honkai thing into the Cocoon of Finality, felt like the hype from the past 30 chapters went down the drain, then the whole Ai-Chan fiasco happened, that's my Final Straw before uninstalling after finishing Part 1. Then, I decided to read up GGZ/HG2 Reborn Arc ending, now I wasn't expecting much at first but when the stakes keep getting higher & higher that's when I realise this is exactly what's missing in HI3 ending, GGZ Will of Honkai ending fight was a banger, blowing my expectation out of the water.
it was said in elysian realm that there is no will of honkai, so
the 30 chapter thing is meaning less, cuz ER Kevin hinted of the fact that there is no will
@@NightSlayer-DayBreak Yes, that's what's called a retcon. It didn't start in final chapter, but it doesn't change that. We all know when the story direction changed
@@NightSlayer-DayBreak uh 😅 that was a 50k year ghost saying no will exist it could be entirely possible it wasn't discovered yet
@@Doralga ……….It was revealed literally that MEI planned for Prometheus to become the Will. ER is before this plan.
so the PE warriors knew that, The will dont exist. CE kevin Knows of The will, Cuz the most probable outcome was, The will being Made from After ER Was created. those that make any sense?
and i now understand that it could very well be a retcon on the Will of Honkai entity, but it was still planned ahead by a year before the Will being fake was revealed.
the Hint that it was planned ahead by the devs, is A couple flame-chasers, having no idea of the will.
Elysian Realm retconned so much that even before the Finale some of my friends did not like how much was changing lore wise that they were having doubts of the finale. and when the Finale came they decided to quit not just Honkai impact but all miHoyo games. they felt it wasn't the same game anymore.
I haven’t done the moon arc, but from what I heard they didn’t like the overflow of exposition, the cop-outs with the narrative aspects of characters getting yanked into the story for some reason and the fact that it apparently wasn’t as good as the other arcs. I myself cannot judge this, I’m finishing up ER and Thus Spoke Apocalypse and if the moon arc is as bad as people claim it to be, then it’s just a bad chapter in a pile of good and great ones
Yeah but this was not the chapter that should have been bad .
A bad finale leaves a bad taste no matter how good the story is.
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 Yeah that's why in my head story ended after elysium everlasting and moon doesn't exist
Ill be honest, I think the biggest hatable point about the moon arc is just how its written. Sure, the lack of active threat from Kevin made the stakes and the timer aspect of the moon arc fall flat. Remember how in both the Elysian Realm arc and in the Phosphorus arc the characters were actively being hunted while the main characters, Mei and Fu Hua, are trying to find a way to win.
Sure, Ai Hyperion is the worst character ever made. The moment she was introduced I hated how she was just a cheap solution to the problems the arc presented. But the way in which the story is delivered was dialogue. And said dialogue was so weirdly written. Sentences were massively drawn out. People werent talking like people. Its so annoying to read these long explanations and getting like 2 percent of it because conclusions and opinions are so badly mixed and abruptly spawned. The moon arc requires a rewrite and im so sad that the end to this genuinly amazing story feels so bad.
Exactly on the getting hunted down part. It felt almost too chill for a finale when Kevin and co just sit and watch.
HI3rd part 1 should just get a standalone remaster or remake where not only the gameplay/animations/models/vfx get revamped but also certain arcs get writing improvements to give the players a better story execution, or heck even rewritten in the case of the blunders Moon Arc made.
I honestly feel conflicted about big ai chan. it did make players feel a sense of involvement in the story while being questionable lore wise at the same time.
as for kevin and the whole world serpent throwing the game, they actually did lol. there are four plans in saving humanity and one of them is just as successful as project stigma, which is the more idealistic project ember. mobius devised project stigma as the last desperate surefire plan to avoid finality while project ember relies in uncertain hope of the people in current era is better than previous era. humanity is saved either way but kevin has to make sure kiana deserves to wield finality before he can finally rest and reunite with his gf.
some people say this change of pace was because of changes of the screenwriter. they say it isnt the same guy who wrote the elysian realm arc. personally i slept on this entire arc. after they announced part 2 i quitted
Yeah shaoji did ER,Otto and HoD arc I think?
Also ch 9
The villains in this arc other than Grey Surpent, feel like they don't really believe in project stigma in the first place. Jackal got fired. Raven doesn't care about the project, she just wants to get the kids to safety, and Hare very intentionally helps the heroes. The man Kebin himself, feels like he's just doing it because his girlfriend says so.
That's more or less the point behind it, they know it's necessary, but nobody likes the solution, so they hope that someone has a better solution. Kevin's fight against Kiana and co is more or less "if you can't even stop me, you've got no chance against Finality".
Congrats, that is the point of Kevin. He is a very simple-minded man caught in multidimensional alien conspiracy and humanity search for ideal. He didn't care - he wanted his world, girlfriend and ball back.
It also kind of ruins the reason he was even thrown into the Sea of Quanta by Su in the first place. to prevent him from using Project Stigma early when in the finale he Never event wanted to use it and waited until Hare found a better non violent way to start it.
@Gilgamesh-em6ru he didn't try to kill main heroes or implement project Stigmata after escaping. So it makes sense - otherwise authors needed to give him another reason to not do these two things.
The issue with the whole thing in general is the lack of stakes, the protagonist aren't really in danger at any point because no one is really trying to actually fight them. They also got their power ups with practically 0 consequences especially kiana, she almost died just holding 2 cores at one point and now she just hold the power of finality without breaking a sweat let alone any struggle while kevin is having his body rotting away just from holding the power and sustain himself with his hyper regeneration. Another instance is theresa is put into the trolley problem but end up never having to make the difficult choice anyway because she just limit break her gene which as she claims she might mutate into something unrecognizable (she literally just grows up for a brief moment like LMAO). We know kevin never really want to fight the protags, but even then finality itself is also just ok kiana we cool now u get to be the god. Then the dues ex machina that is Ai-chan, basically just solving every problem for the protag where older chapter even if its the power of friendship they at least struggled to achieve it. I am not asking for a doom and gloom ending, I am expecting a happy ending but through the efforts of the protags and the clash of ideals with kevin, then overcoming the obstacles not getting handed for free by plot conveniences. The list of issues I have with this arc is way too much to even list here and I can write a thesis on it, but these are the glaring ones.
Though you had a point about Ai Hyperion appearance kind of destroy the normality of how the story supposed to be tell in HI3rd, her sudden appearance show that not all issue that protagonist confront can be solve through brute force. Like how during when they were trap inside certain Stigma space after riding the lift at New Atra. Protagonist is dumb after all because they don't know the concept vessel of Herrscher (exp Kiana) and Stigma Awakened (exp: Durandal) is a counter existence to each other became the main cause they were trap there.
I mean who can blame them for relying on Ai that actually know what's going on. Ai just been there to avoid their bad future by rush their development.
Completely fair. It's just a different line of thinking being promoted.
@@RaykinaBreaker i disagree with this take.
Sure ,the mc cannot solve every issue.
But that's what the side cast is for. At that point of time,there were still a few brainiacs around .
Bronya,Tesla,Einstein,welt and nagamitsu were present .
They could have done the exact same thing ai did,but with these characters.
What this would do is give screentime and relevancy to characters which we don't think about that much.
Ai chan magically appearing and fixing everything makes the entire hi3 cast feel like kids with superpowers which they obviously aren't.
I think the player's inclusion could've worked if it was framed as something like "the mcs broke us out of the spiritual adam and now we're joining the fight annd though we're weak individually, we're strong together"
Part 2 is great but nothing can beat honkia impact part 1 one of the greatest games of all time 🙏🙏
True. Best arc is the second eruption.
My issue with HI3's writing is that it often leans too much on the emotional side, and while emotions aren't bad at all, its just too much here that any sense of logic and reasoning is often thrown away.
@@Luis-325 pretty sure that it's the entire opposite in moon arc.
They tried to make too much sense out of everything,which in turn not only convoluted the story making it borderline unreadable but also significantly lessened the emotional impact at the end.
@kallenlivesmatter3229
To this day I don't understand how the concept of ideas (regarding Misteln) works
I understood how the adam worked but Misteln's existence felt kinda thrown in for Bronya to have her moment 🫠
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 Compare that with Final Lesson, which is so emotional, that you feel it even if the cutscene is your first contact with the game.
@@shuka_madoxes remember Kevin said about replacing humanity with a new lifeform which honkai can't invade.
Yeah that species is misteln.
She is proof that project stigma works.
She is also proof that project stigma sucks.
honestly they could've handled it more like the voices of those from project stigma vs the heroines, restraining them and preventing them from acting, but AI turns up and channels aid from "everyone", as a voice of the people striving for a future. This can then lead to two versions of Spiritual Adam (perhaps an Adam and Eve symbolism, with Adam being the original hive mind but the Spiritual Eve which brings change is made from a "rib" from Adam). We can then get a kaiju battle as a visualisation of the conflict rather than a shield. Then AI and our role can be less a deus ex machina but perhaps our role was to obtain a fragment from Adam and collect power from hopeful minds. This way the conflicts and growth of the valkyries can still be preserved but giving a role for us to fulfil. It could be that the trials they go through lets us and AI gather fragments of Adam to repurpose, leading to the whole Spiritual Eve thing.
but ig I can't say much since what can I do about it
Hot take incoming, but I really liked Ai Hyperion and her inclusion in the story. Her debate with the Grey Serpent on the nature of humanity was really touching
They could literally do that any other time.
i think Ai before the hyperion asspull was fine.
I liked Ai, I think she was neat.
What I didn't like is when she went from tapping on the fourth wall as a thanks to the players from the devs to taking a hammer to it. The narrative feels like it could not have been resolved without that fourth wall breaking asspull and it just soured the experience regardless of my enjoyment of the rest.
Bro still can't move on from moon arc. Moon arc was terrible. It had good moments, but overall one of weakest arcs. Honestly, for me probably even chapter 1 of part 2 didn't felt as bad as finale arc, which says a lot.
Yeah people can't move past moon arc when that's when a lot of players quit the game. and it wasn't because it was the finale but because of how they felt it ruined the story.
The moon arc wasn't terrible at least for me, mostly because the ending is so beatiful that make me feel like "ok, i can forgive this arc" but yeah the overall of the moon arc was still not good
I actually really like the Moon arc. My only problem with it was, surprisingly even for myself, with Prometheus. She was not even our original Prometheus (Will of Honkai), and is most definitely y dead. But the story demanded her to live, and so by some plot shenanigans, Misteln pulled her (and her alone) from that one dying bubble universe to come to our own. And somehow nobody questions anyone about it.
This was after much retrospection from myself. It was surprising even for me because I really really love Prometheus. I just can't defend how forced it was.
il be honest i personally loved the moon arc and had no problems with it the emotional moments that came with it were very good and i liked how we got to see Bronya's mom.
also i love graduation trip it literally made me cry like a fcking bitch for an hour the first time i saw it then i went to see others reaction to it and i cried even more xD.
after that i was sad as fuck knowing that Kiana's story is over.
its not my favorite arc that still stands to either the domination arc because it was so fcking good and we got to see Himeko again and how much Kiana grew as a person and for me it made her my favorite female mc in fiction and made me love her even more and i also consider her to be the best one in fiction,Nagazora arc because it showed us how Kiana would chose to sacrifice herself in order to saver others even if it meant dying and how Mei would chose to side with the "bad guys" in order to save Kiana the person that saved her in the past or Otto's arc because i love him he is my favorite villain in fiction and i consider him to be the best and most human villain in fiction since his arc and manga showed us how much more he sufferd in the past just because the people from his time and familly were corrupt and in the end corrupted him with the last thing that completly turned him evil being Kallen's death.
and we see throughout the game and manga that he still cared and loved the people close to him even though they were few with the biggest example being Theresa he loved her and he didn't want her to die like Kallen did since she resembles Kallen a lot and she is basically her reincarnation and he knew it was possible she could die protecting others like Kallen did and how even as a villain he still help't the ce by lying about turning back the time to make everyone fight him so they get stronger and be able to win against the honkai while also achieving his goal to give Kallen a second chance at life since she sufferd unjust death from a world that rejected her and he didn't care if it cost him his life because for him Kallen gave meaning to his life and showed him its worth living by believing in him something the others didn't not even his familly.
and i believe that if we were in his place sufferd the same way he did and had to live for the past 500+ years with the thought of guilt being responsible for someones important death which he was in way but not the main reason Kallen died i guarantee we wouldn't have been better in any way than him i personally wouldn't have been better.
also we know that he was not proud for the crimes he commited but had no choice and no one hated him more than he hated himself.
summery every arc is Peak and everyone should play Kiana's story at some point even though u might not like that the story is a 3d visual novel.
I’m going to be honest and I know I’m going to get destroyed for this but I actually liked the moon arc, there were actually a lot of good moments I enjoyed in the arc such as Kiana and Mei’s reunion and reconciliation, Siegfried’s rescue Kiana calling Durandal her big sister, and a few others. My only problem with the arc is due to the whole thing with Prometheus being the Will of Honkai and how there was never one in the first place unlike with GGZ and was replaced by the Cocoon of Finality, I guess it was meant to be a plot twist and if it was well they did it poorly do to no build up to it. And of course the Ai-chan pretty much happened in the final battle but those problems didn’t take away my enjoyment of the arc and I thought it was a good conclusion to Part 1.
I think the moon arc should have been at least double the length, hersher of truth is really dumb imo. Also the meeting up of kia mei bron should have had more time on it, they all have substantially changed. Not to mention how theresa could have gotten literally anything. All this combind with how it was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy for the trio made it kinda fall flat tention wise.
Before watching this : Yes!
after watching this : YES!
Honestly I expected the same hopelessness and despair like GGZ but we got a happy ending earlier than GGZ itself and I want to see the trio fight Will of Honkai.. instead we go whatever nonsense ai.... Compare complete menace from ggz
They rushed everything. For example the "touching" reunion of the trio, Mei was behaving oddly, like pretending she gave a crap about anyone not named Kiana. Even we had a lot of chapters where Bronya had her life in danger, and Mei didnt have a decency even mentioning her in her internal monologues. They did a bad job selling the 3 best friends, it kinda screwed Mei charactarization, making her one dimensional character for the rushed KiaMei reconcilation. And Man... at least Kiana and Bronya friendship was beliavable. I feel that Bronya took the L in this Arc (kinda)
Then we had that whole thing with Ai Chan
Makes me feel bad for bronya she takes the most Ls out of the trio even in the final battle her moment of redemption is stolen by AI hyperion
truth to be told, out of the trios, Mei seemed to always get the short end of stick in terms of writing and characterization. There is the ice herscher arc where we had the oppurtunity to explore the parallel of ana schariac/owl and Mei/Kiana, both refused to kill their loved ones even though they are a potential threat of killing millions of ppl and maybe confronting if she is ready to save kiana at all cost and becoming like otto but nooooo lol. iirc there is a brief moment showing mei did came to terms that she might lose kiana in this skrimish but its barely given any focus.
Finality arc is just badly written in practically every aspect, the most comical part about bronya is when she teared up about kiana's "sacrifice" of having to sit on the moon with wifi and they get to play games together online. it would probably be a bit more believable if its Mei instead since at one point she is almost ready to let the world die to save her but even that is stretching it because the price of defeating honkai is way, way too cheap lol (kiana gets a vacation on the moon).
The timing on this video lol
In my humble opinion, the moon arc wasn't just flawed in one or two ways, but in almost all ways.
Retrieving Siegfried didn't even make it into the summary. Because both the setting up and resolution parts were sidetracked. At some point in the arc, Durandal gets embarrassed near Kiana. Which is just out of character for her. We have seen her being level headed for an entire story up to that point. It felt like a cheap trick to make a plot point about them being sisters. You can argue against this point of course, people aren't just stereotypes. However, this writing inconsistency becomes apparent when "surprising" behaviours start to pop up everywhere. We have become no strangers to all characters becoming a philosophy professor. My immersion was broken long before lambda. dialogues were not written in a natural way or in character.
Then there's the handling of Kiana and Mei's reunion. Again, done in the easiest and brief way. Mei's behaviour is not addressed by anyone when she's effectively a parallel to Otto.
My memory is fuzzy since I played the arc at release. These are some of the points that I remember.
Also, I think I had a worse experience with penacony, if that's indicative of my perspective. The community opinion on it seems to have shifted since. Although nowhere near as bad as the moon arc.
@@yubato334 i dont agree about the mei point.
I don't think she has done anything worth addressing especially in comparison to otto.
If anything,it makes more sense comparing her to durandal because she was working under someone who was evil/supposedly evil for her own benefit.
Mei saved Kiana from corruption,took out a two in one herscherr ,weakened HoD and unknowingly and indirectly took out HoC too .
I think she brought way more positive effects in world serpent.
@kallenlivesmatter3229 How does this info weigh in the eyes of other characters though. The reason Mei joining the world serpent was such a big deal, was because it was seen as an evil organisation. We all know the serpent captures/kills herrschers, but it wasn't clear which goal that served.
Kiana questions Durandal's motivation when she has the first chance. Durandal genuinely believes it's for the greater good. Which is somewhat true at the least. Meanwhile Mei's whole concept was being a sinner, she had horns etc. It was a selfish action, although it didn't amount to bad actions in the end in contrast to the build up. Perhaps because people didn't like their waifu turning morally gray.
@@yubato334 pretty sure that the others accepted mei's decision.
Theresa understood and accepted that.
Durandal and Rita were unbothered.
Bronya never met mei from ch 10 to ch 32 so she probably doesn't have much context.
Fu hua was dead and it's probably another Tuesday for her.
Kiana had already understood mei's decision and we see that in ch 24 I think? Where they were connected for a brief moment.
Kiana questioned durandal because otto commited evil deeds personally, instead on paper.
She had personal experience with otto so it makes sense if she didn't understand why Durandal was with him.
Kevin ever since his release from the sea of quanta has been going around saying he wants to eliminate honkai.
You cannot really question WS about their shadiness when their leader is upfront about their actions.
WS has conducted human experiments but that's it for the most part.
Every faction has done that.
There is nothing extraordinary evil to point out about WS unlike otto.
On the contrary they have eliminated 3 herscherrs and they also stick to their own plan instead of bothering other factions.
There isn't much reason to question WS by ch 33 .
Nah, although mei was a sinner in her perspective, she was not, in the audience's or the cast's perspective.
I think that's what you criticised the arc for .
I don't really think that mei's plot could have been anything different since ch 17.
Mei leaving had to amount to something or that entire arc would have been for nothing.
Plus,she joined the strongest faction. There was little to no possibility that anything could have happened to her.
@@kallenlivesmatter3229 Otto committed evil deeds personally, and wasn't arc city all about evil deeds of WS? WS eliminated three herrschers, so did Schicksall.
The cast didn't just oppose WS, they opposed Kevin directly too. Welt and Bronya said they'd never agree with his ideals in SoQ. Killing herrschers should be expected of WS, I don't see why they'd change their stance up to ch 33.
If Mei isn't "supposed" to be a sinner in ch 17. That challenges my whole understanding of the story, I'd need more time to decide whether that's actually the case. If it is, I don't agree with the message/moral of the story.
Welcome back
Besides the ai chan stuff i loved it
The moon arc's Unlimited Yap Works legit made me quit the game, I'm sorry
I see some ppl in the comment who said they hate the final arc so much that they uninstalled the game. I dont mind giving constructive criticism for the sake of improving the game, but don't use excuses like I don't like Moon Arc or Ai chan to say u wanna quit the game. To me, these ppl already hate the game and are just finding a good excuse to quit once and for all.
I agree the Moon Arc has flaws and isnt good by HI3 standard. But most of the flaws were there for a reason. The story was rushed with all the tiring exposition cause they have to wrap everything up in the Moon Arc. Retcons are made to better expand the Honkai world (HSR) and to craft a more "romantic" ending. And finally Ai-chan was there as a thank you to all the Captains. They also tried their best to make sure her involvement wasnt too disruptive and take away from the charaters' efforts.
In the end, did all these work out? Depends on who you ask. But one think is for certain, the HI3 crew did this cause they want to give back to the Captains who has supported the game for years. I don't see why a bit of, be it bad, 4th wall breaking and rushed story writing is really such a big problem when the it was done in good faith? So are you telling me you hate the HI3 crew so much for appreciating you and trying to let you involve a bit in the story? to the point of wanting to delete the game?
1:34 Being 'unkillable' is kind of hardly the point. Only that they'd be able to exist along with the Honkai without -it- killing them.
6:12 Hard to say with this picture when the only one ever truly depicted as a fanatic up to that point has always been Grey Serpent. Raven and Jackal were clad in personal agendas. It certainly comes off as weird when the narrative paints the World Serpent as an ancient illuminati cult with worshipers hiding everywhere, but ultimately the 'face' members of the World Serpent are too individualistic for that and we only hear bits and pieces of the faceless members that contributed.
A large weakness of HI3 has always kind of been how the world in general comes off a bit vague without side material. Like, that are sometimes contradicting points that make you question how much information about Honkai, AE or Schicksal is actually public in current times in spite of the 2nd Eruption. Just being told that Himeko found no European university offering space engineering courses so she went to the US paints a picture of the politics when you know Europe is Schicksal territory and the US is an AE stronghold... but it's not something you get a sense of in the main story.
If we go by what is shown is more important than what is said, then what is shown is "You, the player are valuable to the narrative we made". I guess it's not what many players wanted to see, but it's what some at Hoyo wanted to tell. Will you the captain 'at the bridge' every day and your assistant ever be acknowledged in the main story ? Nah, you've been banished to the Captainverse and this is the last chance before an uncertain future that will they be able even hint at it. You and AI-chan are seen as convenient tools because you have long been denied from being a part of this narrative of love and friendship. You can only exist as an observer, someone who is both as distant and close to the story as the storyteller themselves and AI-chan could only be there because of Project STIGMA.
Narratives are the backbone of the Project STIGMA arc. It posits that civilization is humanity's narrative and thus is the sum of humanity's value. Therefore, the preservation and continuation of human civilization is more important than the form humanity takes. The fact that the players are able to have a hand in supporting the main characters in saying "No" means that they too have value in steering the narrative of humanity. Since everyone in the 'story' are 'characters', only the perspective of an outside observer can judge whether they, as characters are truly the masters of their lives(story). However since the 'observer' is in truth a collective of the players, they themselves will deny this 'interference' as needless. People love it when there's a reference or fourth wall break that makes them feel like they're being acknowledged, but once they feel the potential that 'others' are contaminating their favorite thing they instantly become defensive at this 'tribute'. So, for them it's more important for the narrative(story) to remain 'untainted' and pristine, true to their ideal narrative over acknowledging the existence of different people(players). Much like Project STIGMA which upholds the ideal of civilization.
"My game isn't like those other games. The way I enjoy things are superior. I don't want my game to move on and make it feel so my favorite characters matter less." A person among billions are able to believe that they matter... yet somehow their favorite characters won't matter anymore if no longer given the utmost attention.
HI3 is the game that threw HoD at you. So, how come Kiana always win, they asked ? If the collection of hate and malice against the game wins, then the game may die for daring to not kneel to it. Kiana's story continued because love for the game still outweighs the malice pointed at it. Though, in reality the game's taken a lot of hits from the players all the way to the authorities... it says something that Hoyo's bold enough to still keep attempting this shit even if they can't actually manage to change the status quo.
Do not let bro say the word "tour" again 😭🙏
9:12 pubg helped save the world, fortnite didnt
Project Stigma arc was peak.
Not many people that can understand peak tho. Pity.
@@hollowficate peak garbage I suppose
@@kallenlivesmatter3229
Aliens not wanting to kill everyone is good. There are quite literally no people who have seen publishing War of the Worlds - it's that old. And it made perfect sense with all stuff about using humans as envoys. Also, whole game was pretty much about "there is no absolute evil".
Kevin is a tragic hero, pretty good one at that. Immortal guy with immense power who just wanted a normal life and wasn't given it.
PROMETHEUS monologue about humans placing value on useless things and therefore living in half-fiction is crazy good.
Bronya arc was a mess - Misteln didn't make it worse. Just logical conclusion to already pretty bad arc. They could have introduced Misteln much sooner and make sense of Bronya stances, yes. But they didn't, and that isn't on Moon Arc.
Kiana didn't die because that actually makes no sense. Like, be a good human, break your spine, spent your best years fighting for humanity. And die. Very bright message, even if pretty true. Honkai is "romantic" game, Moon Arc even said so itself. It believes in better outcomes compared to more real life scenarios.
Direct 4th wall breaks are bad, pretty much. Especially when Bronya could just lay 2 weeks in hospital without including that scene.
naah finale was greatest arc lore wise but community didnt get it lmao
and great lore doesn't mean great story, u can have the greatest lore written but if yr story execution fails its meaningless, and about their lore they get retconned so many times I wouldn't even call it great
@@alexhaxy6346 maybe you didnt get it cuz of complicated nature of story, thing is honkai lore is complex and that is exactly what makes it great and theroriticize on it and the thing from last arc are stilll being referenced or further explored in current storyline
so yea those people wanna read simple stuff go read simple story line, honkai lore always been like onion layers bit by bit its comes all together
@@yami7509 How good the lore is plays no part in the problem that the video and everyone else had mentioned. It is the lack of stakes, kiana getting her authority for free, theresa got served a trolley problem but end up not having to choose anyway and then told you about the consequences of overusing her power which ends up just having her grown up for a while. The general lack of urgency because no one is actually trying to go against them and other compounding problem of just characterization thrown out of the window. These are the story problems and its different from the "lore" itself. Stop defaulting to "you don't understand the lore" everytime someone criticize the badly written narrative.
Their writing is OK but not great a lot of pointless dialogues that I no longer remember you start losing interest.
I cleared part 1 and after just quit. Ending wasnt what i expected, hoyo should have sealed kiana with no contact on the moon. Instead they made her like she is just living next door and plays soccer with siegfried and welt, like cmon.
And part 2 was so unappealing, plus after some part of the story hoyo completely removed male mc because of "lore".
Until Honkai Impact starts releasing male characters including flamechasers, welt, siegfried and otto, i truly have to desire to come back. Game is just going the coomer bait with recent characters with ults like taking off their socks, etc.
Part 1 was good tho, would recommend anyone to play it, elysian realm chapters more than others
Honkai always has fanservice wdm, did you see some of the stigmata and skin ?? And good luck with the male characters
Dude I agree in most of your points but... the game had fanservice since always, like the very first stigs lol
I gave up male characters after seeing CN community and how problematic is it for them my only copium is having expy in other HYV game
It was great, doomers only remember the intro science instead of the beautiful metamorphosis of the Trio and the Philosophy between Durandal HoS Kevin and Hua etc.
They don't even understand the love message from the Dev with Ai-Chan that was already foreshadowed in her story event. Literal love letter showing that Honkai is what it is thanks to all of us and those kids complain. It was a beautiful ending.
It's time to look at the whole instead of focusing on the 1 or 2 "worse" segments among dozens of amazing moments
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Your take on World Serpent is wrong, all of them always where in for they own desires, the most fanatical ones where used as the base of Project Stigma and where put in the dream first, Natasha was always just a mercenary and just cared for the children, Cleo was only using WS to get advanced tecnology and when she wasnt needed she give up as she understood she lacked the necessary qualities, Misteln was only doing the minimal as she was only in WS because her last self was the one that joined, the Gold Gray Serpent was the only one true to the project, even the normal Gray Serpents only wanted to live normal lifes and we know that because the sacrifice and conversation when the server got shut down, in the end the Moon Arc was just Kevin as the antagonist and the odds where always on his side, only the joined efforts of everyone did everything necesary and showed Kevin how they could save humanity ultimately thanks to project Ember as Elysia and MEI always wanted