Every year I crack a beer and watch this performance in memory of those who lost their lives in 9/11. Haunting how the tone behind the 'cmon rise up' lyric transforms from enthusiastic to almost pleading. Music really is the universal language that unites us all. Amazing performance
This aired 10 days after the attacks, I was 11, and it hit me in the gut. Now at 30, have lived life...gotten married...had kids...the song hit even harder. The whole "The Rising" album does...
having lived and worked in NYC at the time, and seeing the planes hit and the towers fall from my living room window I have been haunted by this song since. It's sad, yet beautiful and somehow lifted my hopes at the time.
I was a firefighter headed for a fire in Twisp, Washington. The rebroadcast came on a Sunday morning as I crossed the Columbia river. I was alone with my thoughts of two years of custody fight behind me, a four month deployment nearing its end. I don't make it through this song without crying.
The reaction from Ireland and other countries in the aftermath were not seen on Television nearly enough, when I saw footage of it I cried with thankfulness that we were not alone in our grief. It's always good to know who your friends are.... Éirinn go brách.....
The thing about this song is hope! 9/11 was a horrible event. So was Sandy, and the event in New Zealand, and the terrible events in Haiti and Japan. The thing is, we "people" of the world need to unite and care for each other. Not because some church or government tells us to, just because it's the RIGHT thing to do.
The beginning of this song makes me cry, straight up. But when he starts saying rise up, it reminds me why I can't cry for Babylon, because once an empire grows too big for it's own good it begins to crumble under it's own weight, and whether or not the inevitable happens in a couple of years or a couple of centuries, America before 9/11 and now just aren't the same. When we are constantly paranoid, reactionary and re-writing history; the other side has already won.
This song applies now as much as ever. To all the health care workers fighting for all of us during this pandemic, thank you from the bottom of my heart. We need to rise up again. 🙏🙏🙏
this song will always remind me of that fateful day in US history.. this is possibly the most inspirational/sad/awesome/awe-inspiring/emotional song ever.. and is Bruce's BEST song ever...
Still makes me tear up to this day. One of the most powerful live musical performances I've ever seen. Thank you, Bruce. This song meant so much to me (and many others) then and now.
I grew up listening to Bruce Springsteen...I bought all his albums...I listened to every song he ever released...his words and music kept me company through many lonely teenage years...I always felt his songs spoke right to my heart,it was like he was just singing those songs for me...I remember listening to the entire 5 album live 75-85 records and imagined I was there at those live shows...when I actually did see him live it was a dream come true....thanks Bruce!
Yes, it was written about the rise of Asbury Park - after decades of decay. The beauty of Bruce’s lyrics can be applied to so many different circumstances ❤
Missing you greatly CHCH. Returning home to a broken garden city just won't be the same. We will rebuild and be bigger and better. See you at mid-semester break CHCH. Best of luck for a fast recovery. R.I.P. to those that lost their lives in this tragedy. Special mention to Taylor and Bond's mother who didn't make it xoxoxo
R.I.P To all killed in Christchurch Earthquake in my country, New Zealand 22nd February 2011.. This song really touched me when I watched it on the news tonight. R.I.P To all killed in 9/11 also. My Heart goes out to you all.
Upon investigation, as others have noted, this song was written well before the events of 2001 and not specifically *for* those events. Nonetheless, the song is dedicated here *for* those events. However, that that in no way diminishes its power as an anthem for recovery and redemption. It's a beautiful and moving song WITH and WITHOUT its connections to September 11, 2001. We all need to 'rise up' after tragedies, big and small. Thanks, Bruce, for the inspiration.
Truly an incredible performance and just what the country needed then. Bruce's ability to vocalize the pulse of America (this decade in particular) has been amazing. He will always be the Boss.
R.I.P. a tutti i morti del terremoto dell'Abruzzo e dell'Aquila...l'Italia e' sempre con te Boss...i morti dell' 11 settembre sono sempre nei nostri cuori...
The boarded up windows The empty streets While my brother's down on his knees My City of Ruins Sound familiar ? This song now more relevant today than ever before
Yeh I'm out in Southern California. In L.A. County but South where it borders Orange County. Night and day. But after I blew my trust fund I became an alcoholic heroin addict living in downtown L.A. The skidrow district. I'd like to think I have a fairly unique perspective. But not really. I've just seen more of being well off, then being destitute than most. Lol. I've been a Springsteen fan since 1975 or so. Born to Run came out and my big brother got it. He was 13. I was 8. Lol The deal was sealed when we saw him live for the first time. Halloween night 1980. Los Angeles Sports Arena. Changed my fucking life!! Seen him 20X since. The last being March 19th, 2016. The third and last night in Los Angeles on the 35th Anniversary of The River tour. I went all three nights. Night one by myself. Night two with my brother. How cool was that? All those years later seeing Bruce again at same venue. With my brother. Celebrating the anniversary of the album, The River, that he was touring for when we first saw him in 1980. Thank you Lord. Yeh I'm babbling. Sorry. But when he says the boarded up windows line, I immediately thought of the recent riots here in L.A. How I got stuck downtown in my friends tent. I was visiting him and was going to leave around 10pm when I was told by cops that no busses are running out of downtown area until further notice. So I got stuck in ground zero that night. Fucked up. Yeh Bruce rocks.
This is yet another song that could mean a different thing to everybody, it is so beautiful in its lyrics and soul. There is only one Bruce and when he has gone everybody will then realise how good he is/was, awesome!
It wasn't about a break up. He wrote this for his adopted home city of Asbury Park, NJ where he started in the bars and clubs. Over the years it fell into ruin, riots, decay....has been built up again only to be hit by Sandy(not too severely though)
This beautiful song is now New Zealand's anthem for the earthquake victims of Christchurch and for Christchurch itself. Our city in ruins. Kia kaha Christchurch. Rise up.....thoughts and prayers are with you all at this sad and tragic time xoxox
R.I.P. to Clarence, Bruce's sax player who passed away a few days ago. God bless those who were lost in 9/11 and other terrorist attacks around the world. We need to heed the words of this song and seek God in all we do...
I was a 19-year-old volunteer firefighter who spent a day in Queens covering for an engine company that was missing (thankfully they returned in one piece). I watched this song live and it didn't take me long to realize that he was singing about New York City even though the song wasn't really meant for that when he first wrote it. "Church doors swung open; I could hear the organ's song. The congregation's call My City of Ruins." Remember the story about the church that survived the towers collapsing with only a few broken windows? That's exactly what I thought about when I heard that line. The city was in ruins, but with these hands we'll pray for the faithful, the strength, the love. RISE UP!!!! It was a true call for unity.
@Pwells1 What I mean is that there's a misconception about atheism. Atheism is simply non-belief in a deity, nothing else. It is definitely no ideology.
Bruce Springsteen - My City Of Ruins : composée initialement en 2000, la chanson finale de The Rising prit une toute autre signification après le 11 septembre 2001, et devint le symbole de la renaissance de New-York.
Actually, this song was written years before 9/11 for Asbury Park, NJ. Bruce never recorded or barley performed it but adapted it for 9/11. Then The Rising was a whole album dedicated to 9/11.
I remember when I was 5 years old and watching this on TV. I had no idea what 9/11 meant, or the impact on existence it would make. Now I know. Long live Bruce... Come on, rise up!!
We live in a really unstable world.. War in the middle-east (altho it's beginning to end.) Not so long ago we had the 9/11, before that ww1, ww2, cold war, what else? Now we've got north korea threating with stuff. If only they leaders of different countries understood that they can complish nothing by killing others. Human race is bound with a curse called Greed. We want more and more, even tho we might have it all already.
@GoodMonster786 Islam, too, sprang from Mohammed's encounter with Judaism and Christianity, which he and his followers regarded as incomplete expressions of what Islam was to fulfill; flawed, in Mohammed's view, but still righteous steps on the way (I'm not muslim, but a historian, so just offering the background). In Turkey, you can find mosques called the "Isa Bey Cami" (Lord Jesus Mosque). So, if you like, Islam, too, was a "spinoff" of Christianity and Judaism.
@iLoveSalami I give up. I haven't reinvented any definitions whatsoever. You are indeed ending the argument in an unfair way by pretending I am the thick one. I simply can't argue with someone who will pretend that atheism isn't a system of thought just like any other movement, and doesn't have ideological implications. Completely closed minded like every other extremist internet atheist. Keep hating on religion whilst being a complete hypocrite.
@iLoveSalami If you refuse to admit that you are still part of an ideological system, then extremism can run that much more rampant without impediment. And then, it is that much easier for you to be ignorant, because you are deluding yourself into thinking you are open minded and thinking for yourself, when really you are still influenced by group mentality as much as anyone else.
@iLoveSalami By insisting that atheism does not have ideological implications, you are acting as if converting to it makes you open minded than being a member of religion. The problem with this is that this simply isn't true. And this self delusion is what leads to the excessive amount of hate speech against the religious, and the complete ignorance about religion and believers, that we see in everyday life.
@iLoveSalami I'm not gonna argue with YOU over the words anymore. I have shown YOU that atheism fits the text book definition, and you're still not getting it. However, I will tell you of the danger of not calling atheism an ideology. An argument often presented by atheists is that atheism is more open minded and less evil than religion. That's not true because any and all systems of thought, every ideology, not just religion, can be twisted to motivate people to do evil stuff.
@Pwells1 I'm not gonna argue with you over the words anymore. I have shown you the text book definitions and you're still not getting it. However I will tell you of the danger of calling atheism an ideology. An argument often presented by believers is that atheism is behind as much evil as religion. That's not true simply because non-belief can't motivate people to do evil stuff, ideology on the other hand can.
@Pwells1 All christians DEFINITELY share more than ONE specific idea or view. I challenge you to find two who don't. All atheists do not necessarily share more ideas than just the one. It's not for you to invent whole new definitions of words just because you think society has changed. I will quote the exact definitions of "ideology" and "atheism" from Cambridge's online dictionary.
@iLoveSalami "But all atheists do certainly not subscribe automatically to any other ideas just because they are atheists." And christians do not automatically subscribe to dogmatism or any of the specific ideological tenants just because they are christians. As I said before, ideologies contain people of all types, from those who strictly follow the dogma, all the way to those who are barely associated with the ideology, and everything in between.
@Pwells1 You're still getting it all wrong. An ideology is a system of beliefs and ideas such as Stalinism or Capitalism. Atheism, I tell you for the last time, is nothing but non-belief in a deity. Are there ideologies strongly linked with atheism? Why, of course! Humanism and rationalism are two good examples of that. But all atheists do certainly not subscribe automatically to any other ideas just because they are atheists.
@Pwells1 I get your point. I think the issue here is our perception of what is an ideology and what is not. I don't believe that atheism is an ideology but you seem to do. If that's the case we have a respectful disagreement. I won't argue against the fact that there is a strong movement of atheists today but they are definitely not motivated by their non-belief in deity but, as I said, by the fact that religion can be very harmful.
@iLoveSalami I never said Atheism as a whole was out to destroy religion. But if you can't see that Atheist thought built around figures like Dawkins and Hitchenson has formed an ideological movement and system of thought, well, then you're in denial. And if you can't see that atheism was an integral part of Communist ideology, then again, you're in denial. And if you can't see how such ideology has been used as an excuse by extremists to spread hatred against the religious, again, DENIAL
@Pwells1 Your close to being right but yet you're not. Atheism is a non-belief in any deity. That alone can't motivate actions. The "elimination of God and religion" is not something that exists within the boundaries of atheism because atheism is simply not believing in God. Sure, there are atheists who want to rid the world of religion but not because they think there is no God but because they see harm in religion alone.
Well, I don't know much about Islamic history, but Christianity is a spin off of Judaism, and Christianity I know, has done some good things. Yeah, there were bad things in there (like the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre by the Catholic Church, and the Crusades, etc.). BUT, things like hospitals, orphanages, Salvation Army, Red Cross. Those things came out of Christianity/Christian thinking. I'm proud to be a part of that, even if some messed up people do *EVIL* things in "God's Name."
@artisthespoonman I never said he committed those crimes in the name of Atheism. I said that he was an atheist who commited crimes. I was pointing out that murder in the name of anything is wrong. We have to stop blaming religion and the actions of a minority in religions and blame ourselves for the crimes we commit.
@Pwells1 The key is that Atheism is about one and only one idea whereas ideologies contain a whole set of ideas. You wouldn't call non-belief in unicorns (perhaps Aunicornism) an ideology. In the end it's a matter of definition and I can assure that if you had any understanding of the words "ideology" or "atheism" we wouldn't be having this discussion. Get a dictionary.
First of all - get a dictionary. Having faith in yourself is NOT being self-righteous. Self-righteous means being dismissive of all other possibilities than that YOUR opinions are the correct ones. That was my whole point. I don't claim to be right in my atheism. It's my belief but I can't dismiss the chance that there might be a God.
@PeterBluth So let me get this straight... you come up with little education... everything you are taught tells you this is the only way to god... society puts incredible pressure on you to believe and your response... just say no??? Please PeterBluth... god is a business and nothing more.
@Pwells1 I give up. You are by far the thickest person I've ever discussed something with. And I'm not saying that to end the argument in an unfair way and run away. I simply can't argue with someone who will invent new definitions of words to fit his own theories.
Every year I crack a beer and watch this performance in memory of those who lost their lives in 9/11. Haunting how the tone behind the 'cmon rise up' lyric transforms from enthusiastic to almost pleading. Music really is the universal language that unites us all. Amazing performance
This aired 10 days after the attacks, I was 11, and it hit me in the gut. Now at 30, have lived life...gotten married...had kids...the song hit even harder. The whole "The Rising" album does...
Beautiful 💞
HMMM, BOBJOB66, THAT WAS A GREAT, WELL THOUGHT OUT COMMENT!!!!!!!!!!!😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
please never take this video down. so it live on tv stuck with me to this day. this is my only way to get this version stay for life lol 👍👍👍
having lived and worked in NYC at the time, and seeing the planes hit and the towers fall from my living room window I have been haunted by this song since. It's sad, yet beautiful and somehow lifted my hopes at the time.
I was a firefighter headed for a fire in Twisp, Washington. The rebroadcast came on a Sunday morning as I crossed the Columbia river. I was alone with my thoughts of two years of custody fight behind me, a four month deployment nearing its end. I don't make it through this song without crying.
I clicked the dislike-button on accident and I totally freaked out. Beautiful stuff. Heart and soul.
Such a great song. Should be one of the inspirational songs of what we are going through now in our dear world
I remember watching this live from my apartment in Manhattan. ❤️
The reaction from Ireland and other countries in the aftermath were not seen on Television nearly enough, when I saw footage of it I cried with thankfulness that we were not alone in our grief. It's always good to know who your friends are....
Éirinn go brách.....
Originally written about/ for Asbury Park, NJ. It was so fitting that many assumed it was written about 9/11.
This song absolutely devastates me every time. Unbelievable songwriting.
This song still makes me cry.
Every time, it's like I'm back at that time.
NCIS NEW ORLEANS BROUGHT ME HERE .
Watching this in 2017, beautiful. Paid my respect at the ground zero this morning. Love is love is love. We humans need to unite as one.
Yep, i agree. No more wars, no more hijacking airplanes to crash them.
The thing about this song is hope! 9/11 was a horrible event. So was Sandy, and the event in New Zealand, and the terrible events in Haiti and Japan. The thing is, we "people" of the world need to unite and care for each other. Not because some church or government tells us to, just because it's the RIGHT thing to do.
The beginning of this song makes me cry, straight up. But when he starts saying rise up, it reminds me why I can't cry for Babylon, because once an empire grows too big for it's own good it begins to crumble under it's own weight, and whether or not the inevitable happens in a couple of years or a couple of centuries, America before 9/11 and now just aren't the same. When we are constantly paranoid, reactionary and re-writing history; the other side has already won.
God rest all of those who died in Paris yesterday
When Bruce hits inspiration, he hits it BIG.
This song makes me cry every single time I hear it. I can't help it, it's a dagger to my heart. Thank you Boss for such a wonderful song.
this is a superb rendition of this song
I really, REALLY love this song and appreciate listening to it on the 20th anniversary of 9/11.
It is always our artists who lead us and inspire us to do better. Bruce and his band are just perfect here.
massa de ++++ adoro Bruce desde pequeno.
Came across this by accident. I recall this performance. It was the only time I cried during a song. It still tears my heart out.
This song applies now as much as ever. To all the health care workers fighting for all of us during this pandemic, thank you from the bottom of my heart. We need to rise up again. 🙏🙏🙏
this song will always remind me of that fateful day in US history..
this is possibly the most inspirational/sad/awesome/awe-inspiring/emotional song ever..
and is Bruce's BEST song ever...
Remembering 9/11/2001 ... 18 years later ... Thank you for the gift of music 🙏
On the 20th anniversary tomorrow, I remember…and mourn. 😔
Still makes me tear up to this day. One of the most powerful live musical performances I've ever seen. Thank you, Bruce. This song meant so much to me (and many others) then and now.
I grew up listening to Bruce Springsteen...I bought all his albums...I listened to every song he ever released...his words and music kept me company through many lonely teenage years...I always felt his songs spoke right to my heart,it was like he was just singing those songs for me...I remember listening to the entire 5 album live 75-85 records and imagined I was there at those live shows...when I actually did see him live it was a dream come true....thanks Bruce!
Yes, it was written about the rise of Asbury Park - after decades of decay. The beauty of Bruce’s lyrics can be applied to so many different circumstances ❤
One of the greatest songs ever written 💯 take a bow Bruce✌️
tha fuckin boss!! amen
It will be 19 years, since the Terrorist Attacks on 9/11/2001. May We Never Forget.
I remember playing this after 22/07-2011. Moved me to tears. Thank you, Bruce. You are very special to Norway.
I guess some people did something... #neverforget 🇺🇸
i love this song. It is powerful and filled with feelings. His singing allmost makes me cry.
Yes, it is, but for an incredible, even more of a "gospel" rendition, check his Live in Barcelona 2002 version...my 5th graders were speechless.
What a magical moment this was. I'll never forget it. Thanks, Bruce.
Awesome and beautiful voice
Missing you greatly CHCH. Returning home to a broken garden city just won't be the same. We will rebuild and be bigger and better. See you at mid-semester break CHCH. Best of luck for a fast recovery. R.I.P. to those that lost their lives in this tragedy. Special mention to Taylor and Bond's mother who didn't make it xoxoxo
R.I.P To all killed in Christchurch Earthquake in my country, New Zealand 22nd February 2011.. This song really touched me when I watched it on the news tonight.
R.I.P To all killed in 9/11 also.
My Heart goes out to you all.
I remember those days very well. Nobody knew what was gonna happen next.
Upon investigation, as others have noted, this song was written well before the events of 2001 and not specifically *for* those events.
Nonetheless, the song is dedicated here *for* those events.
However, that that in no way diminishes its power as an anthem for recovery and redemption.
It's a beautiful and moving song WITH and WITHOUT its connections to September 11, 2001.
We all need to 'rise up' after tragedies, big and small.
Thanks, Bruce, for the inspiration.
I think it was originally meant for the economical decline in the USA. Especially cities like Detroit or rather rural areas
OH, THATS RIGHT CEMENTHEAD, PUT THE KIBOSH, ON SAD DAY, FUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
This song means more now than when it did in 9/11. I'm I wrong for saying this?
Truly an incredible performance and just what the country needed then. Bruce's ability to vocalize the pulse of America (this decade in particular) has been amazing. He will always be the Boss.
I remember hearing this at the time, and it brought great comfort.
C'mon Amatrice ❤️
R.I.P. a tutti i morti del terremoto dell'Abruzzo e dell'Aquila...l'Italia e' sempre con te Boss...i morti dell' 11 settembre sono sempre nei nostri cuori...
My heart hurts for Minneapolis right now.
I hear you loud and clear! And, Never Forget 9/11/2001.
The boarded up windows
The empty streets
While my brother's down on his knees
My City of Ruins
Sound familiar ? This song now more relevant today than ever before
Yeh I'm out in Southern California. In L.A. County but South where it borders Orange County. Night and day.
But after I blew my trust fund I became an alcoholic heroin addict living in downtown L.A. The skidrow district.
I'd like to think I have a fairly unique perspective. But not really. I've just seen more of being well off, then being destitute than most. Lol.
I've been a Springsteen fan since 1975 or so. Born to Run came out and my big brother got it. He was 13. I was 8. Lol The deal was sealed when we saw him live for the first time. Halloween night 1980. Los Angeles Sports Arena.
Changed my fucking life!! Seen him 20X since. The last being March 19th, 2016. The third and last night in Los Angeles on the 35th Anniversary of The River tour. I went all three nights. Night one by myself. Night two with my brother. How cool was that? All those years later seeing Bruce again at same venue. With my brother. Celebrating the anniversary of the album, The River, that he was touring for when we first saw him in 1980. Thank you Lord.
Yeh I'm babbling. Sorry. But when he says the boarded up windows line, I immediately thought of the recent riots here in L.A. How I got stuck downtown in my friends tent. I was visiting him and was going to leave around 10pm when I was told by cops that no busses are running out of downtown area until further notice. So I got stuck in ground zero that night. Fucked up.
Yeh Bruce rocks.
@@markvaught672 I saw him 9 times in 2016 during The River tour bringing my lifetime total to 49. No one better
This video is 3 million short
This is yet another song that could mean a different thing to everybody, it is so beautiful in its lyrics and soul.
There is only one Bruce and when he has gone everybody will then realise how good he is/was, awesome!
It wasn't about a break up. He wrote this for his adopted home city of Asbury Park, NJ where he started in the bars and clubs. Over the years it fell into ruin, riots, decay....has been built up again only to be hit by Sandy(not too severely though)
Yes, it fits perfectly. And it makes a good final track for The Rising with the last words on the album being "rise up."
This beautiful song is now New Zealand's anthem for the earthquake victims of Christchurch and for Christchurch itself. Our city in ruins. Kia kaha Christchurch.
Rise up.....thoughts and prayers are with you all at this sad and tragic time xoxox
Watching Sept.11.2020
R.I.P. to Clarence, Bruce's sax player who passed away a few days ago. God bless those who were lost in 9/11 and other terrorist attacks around the world. We need to heed the words of this song and seek God in all we do...
I was a 19-year-old volunteer firefighter who spent a day in Queens covering for an engine company that was missing (thankfully they returned in one piece). I watched this song live and it didn't take me long to realize that he was singing about New York City even though the song wasn't really meant for that when he first wrote it.
"Church doors swung open; I could hear the organ's song. The congregation's call My City of Ruins." Remember the story about the church that survived the towers collapsing with only a few broken windows? That's exactly what I thought about when I heard that line.
The city was in ruins, but with these hands we'll pray for the faithful, the strength, the love. RISE UP!!!! It was a true call for unity.
@Pwells1
What I mean is that there's a misconception about atheism. Atheism is simply non-belief in a deity, nothing else. It is definitely no ideology.
Obviously true but admitting that makes conspiracy theories and xenophobia more difficult.
For our fallen brothers and sisters in Japan, pray for this world and Japan my fellows!
Hello japan 🗾
An amazing moment during one of America's darkest days that should never be forgotten or allowed to happen EVER AGAIN!!!!!!
Bruce Springsteen - My City Of Ruins : composée initialement en 2000, la chanson finale de The Rising prit une toute autre signification après le 11 septembre 2001, et devint le symbole de la renaissance de New-York.
This just took me back to seeing this back when it aired. Very sad...
Rise up this November!
I think of this tonight and those in Boston.
Same on all accounts. God bless the USA
This song is so damn powerful, really touching, even though I'm not even an american.
When our country felt like it was broken in half, this felt left like redemption.
Actually, this song was written years before 9/11 for Asbury Park, NJ. Bruce never recorded or barley performed it but adapted it for 9/11. Then The Rising was a whole album dedicated to 9/11.
I remember when I was 5 years old and watching this on TV. I had no idea what 9/11 meant, or the impact on existence it would make. Now I know. Long live Bruce... Come on, rise up!!
Woman and girls Rise Up
For 9/11
god works through this man
Bruce, thank you for such a beautiful song. When I'm down, I sing this song...
@TehRatchet It's not about god, its about the faith. To rise together to overcome hardships. Money may help many, but faith is a far greater power.
what a song :-)
I'm pretty confident all the thumbs downs are from Trump cultists.
1:40-2:05 Bruce really sings his heart out. He really means it. It great to see that.
We live in a really unstable world.. War in the middle-east (altho it's beginning to end.) Not so long ago we had the 9/11, before that ww1, ww2, cold war, what else? Now we've got north korea threating with stuff. If only they leaders of different countries understood that they can complish nothing by killing others. Human race is bound with a curse called Greed. We want more and more, even tho we might have it all already.
@GoodMonster786 Islam, too, sprang from Mohammed's encounter with Judaism and Christianity, which he and his followers regarded as incomplete expressions of what Islam was to fulfill; flawed, in Mohammed's view, but still righteous steps on the way (I'm not muslim, but a historian, so just offering the background). In Turkey, you can find mosques called the "Isa Bey Cami" (Lord Jesus Mosque). So, if you like, Islam, too, was a "spinoff" of Christianity and Judaism.
@iLoveSalami I give up. I haven't reinvented any definitions whatsoever. You are indeed ending the argument in an unfair way by pretending I am the thick one. I simply can't argue with someone who will pretend that atheism isn't a system of thought just like any other movement, and doesn't have ideological implications. Completely closed minded like every other extremist internet atheist. Keep hating on religion whilst being a complete hypocrite.
@iLoveSalami If you refuse to admit that you are still part of an ideological system, then extremism can run that much more rampant without impediment. And then, it is that much easier for you to be ignorant, because you are deluding yourself into thinking you are open minded and thinking for yourself, when really you are still influenced by group mentality as much as anyone else.
@iLoveSalami By insisting that atheism does not have ideological implications, you are acting as if converting to it makes you open minded than being a member of religion. The problem with this is that this simply isn't true. And this self delusion is what leads to the excessive amount of hate speech against the religious, and the complete ignorance about religion and believers, that we see in everyday life.
@iLoveSalami I'm not gonna argue with YOU over the words anymore. I have shown YOU that atheism fits the text book definition, and you're still not getting it. However, I will tell you of the danger of not calling atheism an ideology. An argument often presented by atheists is that atheism is more open minded and less evil than religion. That's not true because any and all systems of thought, every ideology, not just religion, can be twisted to motivate people to do evil stuff.
@Pwells1
I'm not gonna argue with you over the words anymore. I have shown you the text book definitions and you're still not getting it. However I will tell you of the danger of calling atheism an ideology. An argument often presented by believers is that atheism is behind as much evil as religion. That's not true simply because non-belief can't motivate people to do evil stuff, ideology on the other hand can.
@Pwells1
All christians DEFINITELY share more than ONE specific idea or view. I challenge you to find two who don't. All atheists do not necessarily share more ideas than just the one. It's not for you to invent whole new definitions of words just because you think society has changed. I will quote the exact definitions of "ideology" and "atheism" from Cambridge's online dictionary.
@iLoveSalami "But all atheists do certainly not subscribe automatically to any other ideas just because they are atheists." And christians do not automatically subscribe to dogmatism or any of the specific ideological tenants just because they are christians. As I said before, ideologies contain people of all types, from those who strictly follow the dogma, all the way to those who are barely associated with the ideology, and everything in between.
@Pwells1
You're still getting it all wrong. An ideology is a system of beliefs and ideas such as Stalinism or Capitalism. Atheism, I tell you for the last time, is nothing but non-belief in a deity. Are there ideologies strongly linked with atheism? Why, of course! Humanism and rationalism are two good examples of that. But all atheists do certainly not subscribe automatically to any other ideas just because they are atheists.
@Pwells1
I get your point. I think the issue here is our perception of what is an ideology and what is not. I don't believe that atheism is an ideology but you seem to do. If that's the case we have a respectful disagreement. I won't argue against the fact that there is a strong movement of atheists today but they are definitely not motivated by their non-belief in deity but, as I said, by the fact that religion can be very harmful.
@iLoveSalami I never said Atheism as a whole was out to destroy religion. But if you can't see that Atheist thought built around figures like Dawkins and Hitchenson has formed an ideological movement and system of thought, well, then you're in denial. And if you can't see that atheism was an integral part of Communist ideology, then again, you're in denial. And if you can't see how such ideology has been used as an excuse by extremists to spread hatred against the religious, again, DENIAL
@Pwells1
Your close to being right but yet you're not. Atheism is a non-belief in any deity. That alone can't motivate actions. The "elimination of God and religion" is not something that exists within the boundaries of atheism because atheism is simply not believing in God. Sure, there are atheists who want to rid the world of religion but not because they think there is no God but because they see harm in religion alone.
Well, I don't know much about Islamic history, but Christianity is a spin off of Judaism, and Christianity I know, has done some good things.
Yeah, there were bad things in there (like the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre by the Catholic Church, and the Crusades, etc.). BUT, things like hospitals, orphanages, Salvation Army, Red Cross. Those things came out of Christianity/Christian thinking.
I'm proud to be a part of that, even if some messed up people do *EVIL* things in "God's Name."
@artisthespoonman I never said he committed those crimes in the name of Atheism. I said that he was an atheist who commited crimes. I was pointing out that murder in the name of anything is wrong. We have to stop blaming religion and the actions of a minority in religions and blame ourselves for the crimes we commit.
@Pwells1
The key is that Atheism is about one and only one idea whereas ideologies contain a whole set of ideas. You wouldn't call non-belief in unicorns (perhaps Aunicornism) an ideology. In the end it's a matter of definition and I can assure that if you had any understanding of the words "ideology" or "atheism" we wouldn't be having this discussion. Get a dictionary.
First of all - get a dictionary. Having faith in yourself is NOT being self-righteous. Self-righteous means being dismissive of all other possibilities than that YOUR opinions are the correct ones. That was my whole point. I don't claim to be right in my atheism. It's my belief but I can't dismiss the chance that there might be a God.
Most powerful live performance ever. Ever.
Absolutely Great to know there are others that feel the same way!! :D
@PeterBluth So let me get this straight... you come up with little education... everything you are taught tells you this is the only way to god... society puts incredible pressure on you to believe and your response... just say no??? Please PeterBluth... god is a business and nothing more.
@Pwells1
I give up. You are by far the thickest person I've ever discussed something with. And I'm not saying that to end the argument in an unfair way and run away. I simply can't argue with someone who will invent new definitions of words to fit his own theories.