Have thought for a while now there's a market for something between the Moster and Atom, say around 22hp. Less weight and torque steer than Moster, more power than Atom, would be good for training and usable for practically all pilot weights. I thought the EOS100 would fill the role well, but they've since superceded it with the 150 and it seems they're aiming for a chunk of the Moster market instead of carving their own segment... I have an old PAP PA125 (seems better than the ROS / HE / Blackhawk versions) and it's doing the job well, everything I need for now and I don't notice any hitches in the power, seems smooth from idle to full, at least in the flying I've done with it. Coming from free flying, I also like the low swing arm geometry of the PAP frame (old 2-piece stainless frame) and it sets up and breaks down quickly and fits in my car nicely. Have heard the new EFI Moster solves the powerband issue, but at 4kg extra weight, it's not my cup of tea.
Agreed, the price, the extra weight and complexity is a real turn off for limited benefit. Vitto used to make the Evo 100, shame that's not still around. PAP 125 sounds ideal for someone of my weight. I'm enjoying the Atom 80 though so far...
Oh wow, two paramotors. Nice. Agree, the Atom 80 is ideal for cross country. Efficient, smooth and quieter. Love mine. Only really a problem on nil wind high density altitude days (or very tight LXs) Also have encountered that problem with cruise on the Moster. Think Giles has a work around but it involves a dremel taken to the butterfly valve 😮
I think the Moster power band issue is pretty common. It's weird though because when I first got the machine it was barely noticeable but got progressively worse over time despite a few rebuilds. I'm loving the Atom so far...
I've been flying the Atom-80 for three years. I'm a 160 pound (73Kg) and fly with a reserve and such so I'm on the heavy end for it, I think. As long as I'm running a bit lean on the idle jet (the high jet isn't adjustable), I don't have significant issues launching / climbing on those hot nil-wind days. That said, it isn't great either. I do appreciate the fuel economy, relatively quiet tone, and general reliability of the motor. I'll probably get a EFI unit at some point, but for now I'll likely stick with my trusty/inexpensive Atom-80.
@@markallisonparamotoryour membranes in the carb need to be replaced. Not too long ago I had same problem with my powerband, rebuilding carb solved problem 100%. The other possibility is high jet way too rich. But before you mess with settings just rebuild carb. And yes I know this comment almost a year old :)
I'm in exactly the same predicament as you but weigh 95kg. Don't think I'll be able to do the atom but I hate that flat spot in the middle of the moster. I wish they would make an atom 125
I loved my atom 80. I had a new one for half a season, and it was wonderful. I enjoy my moster a LOT, but the atom 80 is so much nicer in every aspect, but....thrust. Im on the fence about getting another 80, for a training set up. The 80 is much less intimidating and much more linear. I just cringe every time I see new pilots with such slow climb rates. Me, Im just 125lbs, but the mountains and tight LZ's won't allow me the pleasure of an atom. Summer nights are the best! Thank you for showing your new gear and making the vid.
Yes I need a decent runway when flying the Atom even at an altitude near sea level. I can't imagine what it would be like at high altitude! I have kept my Moster for those times that require it, which are quite rare for me now.
Yes the bulldog is a very well thought-out paramotor with lots of great features, but not to everyone's taste because of the higher hang points. I'm not familiar with True North.
As a new (in training) pilot at a weight of 70-75kg (depending on season), I went the Atom 80. Use less fuel, not as much fatigue when ground handling and its going to be a long time before I even consider "flying like a dick" :p Don't have any problems with nil wind launches with my Sky Flexor 25.
Excellent stuff mate!!!!! Join the club. I dread to think the amount of hours you are going to get in now u don't have to land as often!!!!! Amazing :)
I would like to go for flatland-thermaling. Climbing up, find a thermal and shut the engine off! What would be your advice regarding the engine choice? My body-weight is around 75kg. Thanks alot for your video!
I believe the Atom 80 is the way to go. It will take longer to climb, but you can climb all day at ~200 feet per minute at 8800 rpm on a ~25m A wing at your weight. 10 minutes later, you should have enough altitude to find the thermal. Your power off climb rate will be better on the Atom due to a lower wing loading and you'll have less weight swinging behind you risking a riser twist.
Very nice addition, thanks for posting. I picked up a used PAP 1400 running the ROS 125 motor, maybe this is a good halfway house between the Atom 80 and Moster 185? Do you do your own maintenance Mark? No one I have approached, car/motorcycle garages, farm equipment maintainers handling chainsaws and large mowers, no one will take on servicing my paramotor so I have no choice but to try and do it myself with the help of YT instructional clips. I'm going to stick at it until I can achieve some training and get to try this amazing sport.
I have an old PAP 1400 two-piece frame with the PA125 motor (slightly different version of the ROS125 motor, I think the exhaust mainly, but essentially the same motor). It suits me well, lighter than a Moster, more power than Atom and the power seems smooth from idle to full. Great motor to train on, IMHO. Like you, I have had to become a bit of a 2-stroke maintenance engineer... But I enjoy that aspect of the sport, so it's not a burden for me. I do find it can be hard to start sometimes, it has quite high compression, but it's mostly a matter of technique, priming it just right.
80cc's are great, man! So quiet! Welcome to the club! haha What you say about low flying, I'm quite happy hopping hedges on my Top80 - I guess I got used to it 😅😅 Climb rate isn't its strong suite, though.... Sometimes it even struggles to climb through holes in clouds (as it seems to be the descending air) Full speed (with bar), I need almost wot to keep level 😅 Curious to see your experience 😉 Keep posting your great vids! 🪂🪂
I changed to Atom80 as well, having flown Moster and Polini Thor before... It's a real delight flying the Atom - in combination with the 16,5 L Tank, flights of more than 4 hrs are no Problem (84kg Bodyweight+ Reflexwing GIN Falcon 26)🙂! Starting the engine is so smooth and easy ,firing up at the first pull...engine sound is less noisy...less weight on my back...love it🤩🪂
Good if you can afford and have a storage place for several paramotors. However, I would not downgrade for smaller motor as long as I could normally operate a more powerful one. Many reasons including safety, reliability, easy takeoff, flexibility for newer or smaller future wings, and so on. I think it is better to fly on a powerful motor with 1/3 throttle, than on a smaller one with 3/4 throttle in level flight. It is a different story to get rid of the flat power curve though - I think I would change the motor model, but not for less power. Luckily there are plenty of models for a lighter pilot. X-country? Less noise? Less consumption? Less hassle? I would definitely go for 4-stroke like Bailey. Have you tried? Hope you enjoy your Atom though!
I tried a Bailey and have been tempted for years, and have flown one see this video th-cam.com/video/bIPTqw7mwHo/w-d-xo.html but I am worried about service and parts, not being particularly mechanically minded myself.
@@markallisonparamotor A friend of mine has Bailey. Parajet installation. After figuring out a few design problems, indeed, no he has a very reliable, quiet and always ready to run "spare" machine for the occasions when his Pollini is broken. For your particular style of flying which I like very much, I would recommend to give another look to this motor. Best flying!
Interesting video Mark, unusual to see anyone 'down-grading' from anything these days :-) Was that a strip you were operating from when you tried the Atom, if so where was it and do they let us chaps in?
as a 133kg pilot: NOTHING can beat a much more lightweight machine. if it works for a fairly easy launch at a nil wind day go for it. its not a downgrade. i see that as upgrade. atom80 is lighter, much more quiet and easier on the body. i just sold my brand new gasoline engine after the first test flight on my DIY electric motor went so well. did you see my maiden flight mark? i am obviously not able to fly an atom80 very well even its possible to launch with 50kg thrust. but i do love the almost 8kg less from my electric engine. whats your weight and height? dont forget if you a taller guy you can also put a 140cm prop on the atom80 to further reduce noise and increase thrust alot. making that the perfect machine in my opinion.
@@markallisonparamotor as i thought. you are tall enough to run a bigger prop and yes you need a bigger hoop as well. i am using a 140cm prop now and my god is the sound of it amazing. like a low pitched rumble. very comfortable to fly and i have far beyond 100kg thrust with this insane thing. i tested a 145cm prop and thats even better but i need build another frame to use it. since i am 190cm and have absolute zero problems with the cage height i will build another frame later for sure. also get rid of the heavy wooden prop and upgrade to a lightweight E-prop.that will make acceleration very respnsive and torque twist is gone. besides the fantastic noise from a bigger propeller you will also have more thrust, helping the atom80 to run not on its limits all time while climbing. i think mark honeycutt just tested a 140 prop on a atom80 some days ago if i remember correct? i promise if you test this combination you wont want to fly your moster185 anymore. i sure love the bigger propeller and will never ever go back to 130cm or even 120. they are very loud and inefficient. you can hear the low pitched noise in my maiden flight video i think.
I also just bought an Atom80, didn't fly it yet, it hope it will work with my Speedster 26 also with open trimmers and 80kg pilot. Maybe i need to renew the 10 year old wing. But the Atom80 has charme, it's so light, compact, efficient and silent - this sounds really good to me. Before i had a 10kg heavier Fresh Breeze Sportix Simo.
I was at a major flyin event last summer with an insane density altitude of 8700 feet, but in spite of that, distance wise my atom 80 and I got airborne quicker and shorter than virtually every one else that had the Moster. They did out climb me of course, but at that altitude I was pretty impressed with my reliable, quiet, efficient and surprisingly powerful Atom 80. 🙂 NOTE: I did have the 130 prop, which made some difference I’m quite sure.
Interesting that the Atom seemed to perform better than the Moster at altitude, do you know why that might be? I would love to try a 140 prop on mine, but my cage won't take it and I don't want to risk chopping lines or anything else for that matter!
Congratulations 👏 🎉. Have safe flying. I am a lazy pilot and don't like long run for takeoff, but your detailed video confirmed that Atom 80 isn't for me 😂
Is there someone in your area that could let you try theirs? Sounds like it would be perfectly doable, but I would want a trial flight first before committing.
Yes go to Mike Chilvers at ufly4fun.com and tell him I sent you. Not far away at all and it's a beautiful training field with one of the best trainers in the country.
I reckon you will you use more fuel on the atom80 because you will be at wto more often then with the moster and with your with it def3 needs a bit of power
@@markallisonparamotor ohh goodness, I love to tinker its no issue.. =p and I live near a place where I can get help if I need to source some knowledge or parts.
Have thought for a while now there's a market for something between the Moster and Atom, say around 22hp. Less weight and torque steer than Moster, more power than Atom, would be good for training and usable for practically all pilot weights. I thought the EOS100 would fill the role well, but they've since superceded it with the 150 and it seems they're aiming for a chunk of the Moster market instead of carving their own segment...
I have an old PAP PA125 (seems better than the ROS / HE / Blackhawk versions) and it's doing the job well, everything I need for now and I don't notice any hitches in the power, seems smooth from idle to full, at least in the flying I've done with it. Coming from free flying, I also like the low swing arm geometry of the PAP frame (old 2-piece stainless frame) and it sets up and breaks down quickly and fits in my car nicely.
Have heard the new EFI Moster solves the powerband issue, but at 4kg extra weight, it's not my cup of tea.
Agreed, the price, the extra weight and complexity is a real turn off for limited benefit. Vitto used to make the Evo 100, shame that's not still around. PAP 125 sounds ideal for someone of my weight. I'm enjoying the Atom 80 though so far...
Oh wow, two paramotors. Nice. Agree, the Atom 80 is ideal for cross country. Efficient, smooth and quieter. Love mine. Only really a problem on nil wind high density altitude days (or very tight LXs) Also have encountered that problem with cruise on the Moster. Think Giles has a work around but it involves a dremel taken to the butterfly valve 😮
I think the Moster power band issue is pretty common. It's weird though because when I first got the machine it was barely noticeable but got progressively worse over time despite a few rebuilds. I'm loving the Atom so far...
I've been flying the Atom-80 for three years. I'm a 160 pound (73Kg) and fly with a reserve and such so I'm on the heavy end for it, I think. As long as I'm running a bit lean on the idle jet (the high jet isn't adjustable), I don't have significant issues launching / climbing on those hot nil-wind days. That said, it isn't great either. I do appreciate the fuel economy, relatively quiet tone, and general reliability of the motor. I'll probably get a EFI unit at some point, but for now I'll likely stick with my trusty/inexpensive Atom-80.
@@dkumpula001 Nice, glad to hear you are still enjoying it after three years.
Perhaps the carb just needed dailing in more if it was ok at first after the rebuilds .@@markallisonparamotor
@@markallisonparamotoryour membranes in the carb need to be replaced. Not too long ago I had same problem with my powerband, rebuilding carb solved problem 100%. The other possibility is high jet way too rich. But before you mess with settings just rebuild carb. And yes I know this comment almost a year old :)
I'm in exactly the same predicament as you but weigh 95kg. Don't think I'll be able to do the atom but I hate that flat spot in the middle of the moster. I wish they would make an atom 125
What about the Sky 150? Seen a few of those around, but not sure how reliable they are www.skyengines.com/new-sky-150-generale/?lang=en
I loved my atom 80. I had a new one for half a season, and it was wonderful. I enjoy my moster a LOT, but the atom 80 is so much nicer in every aspect, but....thrust. Im on the fence about getting another 80, for a training set up. The 80 is much less intimidating and much more linear. I just cringe every time I see new pilots with such slow climb rates. Me, Im just 125lbs, but the mountains and tight LZ's won't allow me the pleasure of an atom. Summer nights are the best! Thank you for showing your new gear and making the vid.
Yes I need a decent runway when flying the Atom even at an altitude near sea level. I can't imagine what it would be like at high altitude! I have kept my Moster for those times that require it, which are quite rare for me now.
Bulldog looks interesting. I love my Atom 80. I have never flown a Moster yet, I fly a True North Paramotor with a Dudek Universal 1.1 23m fire color.
Yes the bulldog is a very well thought-out paramotor with lots of great features, but not to everyone's taste because of the higher hang points. I'm not familiar with True North.
As a new (in training) pilot at a weight of 70-75kg (depending on season), I went the Atom 80. Use less fuel, not as much fatigue when ground handling and its going to be a long time before I even consider "flying like a dick" :p Don't have any problems with nil wind launches with my Sky Flexor 25.
Sounds perfect for you at your weight, glad to hear it's going well. You will likely never need a Moster if you can keep away from cake. 😊
How is it for flying amongst the fields?
I talk about that in the video ;) You have to plan ahead more, but it's doable.
Excellent stuff mate!!!!! Join the club. I dread to think the amount of hours you are going to get in now u don't have to land as often!!!!! Amazing :)
I need to start practising holding my bladder...
I would like to go for flatland-thermaling. Climbing up, find a thermal and shut the engine off! What would be your advice regarding the engine choice? My body-weight is around 75kg.
Thanks alot for your video!
The Atom has a poor climb rate, if you are wanting to get to high altitude under power then the Moster would be a better choice for that.
I believe the Atom 80 is the way to go. It will take longer to climb, but you can climb all day at ~200 feet per minute at 8800 rpm on a ~25m A wing at your weight. 10 minutes later, you should have enough altitude to find the thermal. Your power off climb rate will be better on the Atom due to a lower wing loading and you'll have less weight swinging behind you risking a riser twist.
Very nice addition, thanks for posting.
I picked up a used PAP 1400 running the ROS 125 motor, maybe this is a good halfway house between the Atom 80 and Moster 185?
Do you do your own maintenance Mark?
No one I have approached, car/motorcycle garages, farm equipment maintainers handling chainsaws and large mowers, no one will take on servicing my paramotor so I have no choice but to try and do it myself with the help of YT instructional clips.
I'm going to stick at it until I can achieve some training and get to try this amazing sport.
I deliberately chose a common paramotor for ease of maintenance. I do most of it myself, but get it fully rebuilt every year by Skybound Aviation.
I have an old PAP 1400 two-piece frame with the PA125 motor (slightly different version of the ROS125 motor, I think the exhaust mainly, but essentially the same motor). It suits me well, lighter than a Moster, more power than Atom and the power seems smooth from idle to full. Great motor to train on, IMHO. Like you, I have had to become a bit of a 2-stroke maintenance engineer... But I enjoy that aspect of the sport, so it's not a burden for me. I do find it can be hard to start sometimes, it has quite high compression, but it's mostly a matter of technique, priming it just right.
80cc's are great, man! So quiet! Welcome to the club! haha
What you say about low flying, I'm quite happy hopping hedges on my Top80 - I guess I got used to it 😅😅
Climb rate isn't its strong suite, though.... Sometimes it even struggles to climb through holes in clouds (as it seems to be the descending air)
Full speed (with bar), I need almost wot to keep level 😅 Curious to see your experience 😉
Keep posting your great vids! 🪂🪂
Flying above the clouds and chasing balloons definitely requires a Moster. I will let you know how it goes with speed bar, I've just fitted one to it.
What's your realistic fuel consumption on Top 80?
5h flight - that will be something!
glad to see you enjoying the Atom 80, amazing how easy is to start!
Yes, that's one of the reasons for getting it. Loving it so far...
I changed to Atom80 as well, having flown Moster and Polini Thor before...
It's a real delight flying the Atom - in combination with the 16,5 L Tank, flights of more than 4 hrs are no Problem (84kg Bodyweight+ Reflexwing GIN Falcon 26)🙂!
Starting the engine is so smooth and easy ,firing up at the first pull...engine sound is less noisy...less weight on my back...love it🤩🪂
@@jak4346 Great isn't it? ☺☺
Good if you can afford and have a storage place for several paramotors. However, I would not downgrade for smaller motor as long as I could normally operate a more powerful one. Many reasons including safety, reliability, easy takeoff, flexibility for newer or smaller future wings, and so on. I think it is better to fly on a powerful motor with 1/3 throttle, than on a smaller one with 3/4 throttle in level flight. It is a different story to get rid of the flat power curve though - I think I would change the motor model, but not for less power. Luckily there are plenty of models for a lighter pilot. X-country? Less noise? Less consumption? Less hassle? I would definitely go for 4-stroke like Bailey. Have you tried?
Hope you enjoy your Atom though!
I tried a Bailey and have been tempted for years, and have flown one see this video th-cam.com/video/bIPTqw7mwHo/w-d-xo.html but I am worried about service and parts, not being particularly mechanically minded myself.
@@markallisonparamotor A friend of mine has Bailey. Parajet installation. After figuring out a few design problems, indeed, no he has a very reliable, quiet and always ready to run "spare" machine for the occasions when his Pollini is broken.
For your particular style of flying which I like very much, I would recommend to give another look to this motor. Best flying!
Interesting video Mark, unusual to see anyone 'down-grading' from anything these days :-) Was that a strip you were operating from when you tried the Atom, if so where was it and do they let us chaps in?
I will have a chat with Clive, the airfield manager and ask him about the field.
as a 133kg pilot: NOTHING can beat a much more lightweight machine. if it works for a fairly easy launch at a nil wind day go for it. its not a downgrade. i see that as upgrade. atom80 is lighter, much more quiet and easier on the body. i just sold my brand new gasoline engine after the first test flight on my DIY electric motor went so well. did you see my maiden flight mark?
i am obviously not able to fly an atom80 very well even its possible to launch with 50kg thrust. but i do love the almost 8kg less from my electric engine. whats your weight and height? dont forget if you a taller guy you can also put a 140cm prop on the atom80 to further reduce noise and increase thrust alot. making that the perfect machine in my opinion.
I will check out your video, interesting about the 140cm prop, I would need an upgraded hoop as well though. 🤔 My weight is 77kg and my height 182 cm.
@@markallisonparamotor as i thought. you are tall enough to run a bigger prop and yes you need a bigger hoop as well. i am using a 140cm prop now and my god is the sound of it amazing. like a low pitched rumble. very comfortable to fly and i have far beyond 100kg thrust with this insane thing. i tested a 145cm prop and thats even better but i need build another frame to use it. since i am 190cm and have absolute zero problems with the cage height i will build another frame later for sure.
also get rid of the heavy wooden prop and upgrade to a lightweight E-prop.that will make acceleration very respnsive and torque twist is gone. besides the fantastic noise from a bigger propeller you will also have more thrust, helping the atom80 to run not on its limits all time while climbing. i think mark honeycutt just tested a 140 prop on a atom80 some days ago if i remember correct?
i promise if you test this combination you wont want to fly your moster185 anymore. i sure love the bigger propeller and will never ever go back to 130cm or even 120. they are very loud and inefficient. you can hear the low pitched noise in my maiden flight video i think.
I also just bought an Atom80, didn't fly it yet, it hope it will work with my Speedster 26 also with open trimmers and 80kg pilot. Maybe i need to renew the 10 year old wing.
But the Atom80 has charme, it's so light, compact, efficient and silent - this sounds really good to me.
Before i had a 10kg heavier Fresh Breeze Sportix Simo.
I love the Atom, it's not the best at climbing, but better than the Moster in every other aspect.
I was at a major flyin event last summer with an insane density altitude of 8700 feet, but in spite of that, distance wise my atom 80 and I got airborne quicker and shorter than virtually every one else that had the Moster.
They did out climb me of course, but at that altitude I was pretty impressed with my reliable, quiet, efficient and surprisingly powerful Atom 80. 🙂
NOTE: I did have the 130 prop, which made some difference I’m quite sure.
Interesting that the Atom seemed to perform better than the Moster at altitude, do you know why that might be? I would love to try a 140 prop on mine, but my cage won't take it and I don't want to risk chopping lines or anything else for that matter!
Have you flown a Nitro? You might find it a happy medium, and mine only burns 3.2-3.5l an hour.
I never have, and Nitro owners do seem quite happy with them. Maybe I will someday...
I have and I had nothing but constant issue with the motor. After 40 hours I gave up on it and now only on vittorazi atom or moster
Congratulations 👏 🎉. Have safe flying. I am a lazy pilot and don't like long run for takeoff, but your detailed video confirmed that Atom 80 isn't for me 😂
Haha, no it's definitely not for everyone, much less popular than the Moster.
Beautiful countryside but no crop circles? 👽 😀
More common in the South West.
Do you think that the atom 80 could be a good option for a weight of 68 kg pilot and a flight area that is 2000 meters above sea level?
Is there someone in your area that could let you try theirs? Sounds like it would be perfectly doable, but I would want a trial flight first before committing.
What rpm do you need your Moster to run at for level flight…?
I have never flown with an rpm gauge Rab, maybe I will fit one and let you know. I've never really felt the need for one before.
Very enjoyable video.
Many thanks!
Could you offer any advice for someone looking to start flying ? With training ect Based near thetford .
Thanks !!
Yes go to Mike Chilvers at ufly4fun.com and tell him I sent you. Not far away at all and it's a beautiful training field with one of the best trainers in the country.
Consider the EOS100 as well
Interesting, didn't know about these
Welcome to the club 😂
I can join you on your stupidly long flights now... 😎
I reckon you will you use more fuel on the atom80 because you will be at wto more often then with the moster and with your with it def3 needs a bit of power
After several flights with it, that is not the case. The Atom uses much less fuel on long flights.
@@markallisonparamotor I'm suprised have you tried it on the hardron yet
@@Adrenalinspunk Yes in this video ;-)
I volunteer as tribute for your older ahnd me downs 🥲
haha, I'll put you on the list, not sure you'd want it though after what my gear has been through! 🤣
@@markallisonparamotor ohh goodness, I love to tinker its no issue.. =p and I live near a place where I can get help if I need to source some knowledge or parts.