Carmudgeon and Cammisa being straight forward about the automotive world is what it needs today. Cammisa drives old, relatively slow cars but they happen to all redefine what driving is supposed to be. Even as a group who has driven most of my dream cars, the people at issimi and Cammisa understand that driving is about passion and smiles instead of speed and style. Respect.
This!! It needs to be publicly acclaimed. I love cars. I can't afford a new car. But even if I could, I would buy an old piece of expensive metal that makes me smile.
I was nver bought into the Miata hype train, but I bought my first Miata this year after test driving an ND1 last year. I wound up finding a used ND1 Club with the Brembos for way cheap. I've never not had a great time in that car. Everytime I drive, I am all giggles. This car is so much fun even at normal speeds! It's such a joy to drive.
@@arricammarques1955 'built for driving not for repairs' Can't tell if sarcastic about the 'not built for repairs' is it really a headache to work on?? I have a mechanic who says does not like to work on them (compared to Honda and BMW)
@@wesleyrice2138 What he means is they typically don't break. My 1989 na did 60,000 miles with only regular maintenance. And the only issue I ever had was a dead water pump, which conveniently happened about 5000 miles before it was due a belt change anyway. As for hard to work on... Not really? Some stuff is annoying as space can be limited but I never found it any worse than anything else from the period.
Caught this one waaaay late…great discussion on the Miata. I owned and daily-drove a 1997 Miata. After 12 years and 240,000 miles later (including snowy winter weather) my overwhelming impression was that no other machine has earned and kept my loyalty and adoration. I actually shed a tear after handing the keys over to the next owner. Embarrassing but honest moment.
My dad has a 2016 miata its the closest car ive driven that reminded me of the fun on a crotch i used to have. Obviously not the speed but the joy of just driving back roads Im 6’2. 225 its just too small for me to live with even as a toy. Great cars tho
$40K is for the anniversary or the fully loaded RF with Recaros and BBS/Brembo. You can get the exact same driving experience at $28-30K MSRP if you are ok with a soft top are willing to forgo the Recaros and the bbs wheels. Most dealerships are selling them for a couple grand under MSRP, which honestly makes it a bargain. If you’re patient you can easily find a loaded USED ND2 Club for $27K including the BBS wheels and some leather seats.
In my experience, the key to this is light weight. Cars under 2400 pounds have a liveliness that doesn't exist in heavier cars. I'm surprised Jason didn't mention the Elise. It's kind of the ultimate Miata in a way. Very tactile, very live, open air, extremely fun at any speed and yet combined with the handling and power to make it very potent on the track.
I've owned an Elise an Exige and I don't think they are the same as an MX5. The Elise platform doesn't have the same low speed enjoyment for me, they are a much more competent platform and need to be pushed harder for the giggles. Maybe an original Elise on very narrow low quality tyres had that, but everything gen two onwards didn't for me.
@@ImBarryScottCSS I drive the same roads at the same speeds in my Elise that I do in my NA Miata and get more enjoyment from it. For me it has to do with the feedback coming from the car and the Elise is telling me more. This is the reason I love the Elise. It only sees the street, I don't use it for high performance driving, and it's a thrill every time I get into it.
Miatas are awesome, and as an S2000 owner, I still wouldn't mind adding NC2 or ND to my garage. I would have to agree on a back road that the Miata is more fun. The S2000 is ready to kill you whereas the Miata is like a childhood playmate.
I love you, Cammisa...but, a Hyundai Veloster N or GTI is not a better "giggle machine" than an ND2. Not on any planet. But you're still my favorite auto journalist, hands down. So, you're forgiven.
Jason. I Just (December 5, 2022( Bought A Used '19 ND2 RF for 27K 38,000 miles and like New What a great little car! I'm glad to hear you talk about it like that! Fan of yours too! It's everything I want in a sports car... for 10 grand off new.. Mazda is the only one that understands me.... and I will take care of it and it will last forever.. I hope this Miata Grin lasts forever also!
I was never in to Miata’s until I got NC as a cheep track car and realized I enjoy that car way more than E92 M3 . As a cheap track toy it is amazing .
I got a ND1 last year before used car prices went insane and it has been amazing to learn to drive better with it. Always had boring cars, last one was a Ford C-Max. There is a mountain road nearish me that has something like 140 turns on it. The car taught me it is way more capable than I. Now I want to learn more.
I had my '99 Miata NB a year before I got my driver license , which was the reason why I got my license in the first place (which in Germany was almost as expensive as the car itself). Yes, the 110 hp 1.6 is very slow, but you just need twisty roads and BOOOM = fun.
Last week my dream was partially shattered, now a car I own is praised. This guys are really playing me. Love every minute of it!! Keep on. And forget the 20 minute rule please! Thanks!
For me, the Miata really taps into the feeling I get from old motorcycles, especially with the top down. You get the same kind of visibility, the feeling of being slightly vulnerable but can drive circles around traffic, and accelerating does involve dropping 2 or 3 gears and giving it some RPM. The NC2 even gets the same sort of mileage as my old 400 2-stroke Kawasaki.
As far as I can see, not a single mention of the car that took the driving mantle from the MX5.......the MKIII Toyota MR2. I have owned an MX5, a Lotus Elise S1 and the MR2 and of the three, the MR2 was the most "drivable" on a daily basis. Without a doubt, the Elise was hands down the best fun this side of a Caterham you can have with your trousers on. It's a spectacular car and I miss it dearly. I really do. I would have another one in a heartbeat. The MX5 was good. I liked it. Nice car. But that was the thing for me....it was "nice". The car that had the best of both worlds? The MKIII MR2. That thing was pretty quick, awesome gearshift, was compliant enough to use as a daily driver, its engine was an absolute peach (over 7K out of the box in standard form and a kick from the VVTi that was just lovely), its steering was super super communicative, it handled with a fair bit of grip and would be pretty faithful to what you did with it. It ONLY ever bit you if you were being a bit of an idiot with it. It's brakes were hitting a wall good and was bomb proof reliable. Cheapest sports car to own and tun I have ever had. Styling was.....so so, I will admit that. Bit like a bathtub, but I forgave it everything for the way it drove. And yet, in ever conversation I see like this, its always very sadly overlooked. SUCH a good car.
I had both a mark three mr2 and a mark 2 mx5. The distinction for me was that the toyota felt like a scalpel - turn in was notably quicker and that was just one of the ways that it drove better, but I didn’t love it. I had all the pieces, but it wasn’t as fun as the miata to me. The mr2 wasn’t helped by me being short and the doors coming up higher - at roundabouts all I could ever see was the wing mirrors and I couldn’t place it as well as the miata.
@@cobenblack1876 I’m short too. 5’ 5”. Never had that issue with the Mk 3 but then I like to be enclosed and feeling like I was sat in, not say on, the car. It’s why I dismissed the MG-TF straight away when deciding first off. That sat so high even for a shorty like me. But that’s a personal choice I guess. I think for me it was that difference in the way the MR2 shoe compared to the MX5. The sharpness of it. It felt more focused. Coming from a VERY low level motorsport background as well has having a Lotus Elise in the middle of all of this, the MK3 suited my driving and how I like to drive a lot more than the MX5. Don’t get me wrong, the MX5 is a very very good car and deserves its popularity and the niche focus of the MR2 is the reason it didn’t sell in anywhere near the numbers of the MX5. It was less accessible to most people, especially when you took into consideration things like practicality. But I loved my MK3. I loved my MK1’s as well. A very defined blood like along them for sure.
Love the conversation. In fact I started watching this show because of Jason's Ignition comparison of the Mazda with the Fiat 124. I had already fallen for the car after reading the 2016 Car and Driver article on the automatic and seeing at the new body style in person. So when a new 2017 ND1 with an automatic showed up for sale in July of 2018 I bought it. The dealer said it had been sitting around at the back of the lot and they wanted it gone because the 2019s were coming and the clincher was that the price was $8100 off the sticker on a new car. At the time I wasn't all that excited about the automatic but I've owned 11 cars with a stick shift and the new automatic on this thing is just fine. It's now the only car I own and has made it really difficult for me to decide on what to buy next. It's hard to be satisfied with a car when your baseline is a Mazda MX5. I do have to admit that the 2020 ND2 Club manual I drove yesterday is almost a different car than the 2017 ND1 GT auto but If I have to choose one to everyday the time I'll keep the softer auto. Love Derek's comment about "the ass pain" of owning an old car and Jason is right, the ND is kinda floppy but then again so am I.
I'm just listening to this episode today. If I were to buy a sports car (I currently only have only one parking space for my condo, and it's filled by a 4-door 3 cylinder grin-inducing 6-speed manual Mini Cooper) as a second car, it would be an Na2 (1.8 liter) and then toss on some flying Miata goodies: the stage 1 turbo and suspension. Yes, the n/a experience is better than a turbo, but who can resist nearly doubling the rear wheel hp? One day, one day.
So what you guys are saying about the Miata and how it made you laugh and feel while driving it are what made me buy my NC3 and also to the point the ND is too expensive and I bought my NC3 for 15k with 20k on the clock 3 years ago. So I agree with you say 100%
I still remember when I let my good friend drive my NA Miata through the Oakland/Berkeley hills-he laughed the whole time. Maybe the happiest I've ever seen him. Miatas are great cars. Also I'm with Jason-salaries are not keeping up with the cost of a Miata. Then again, when the Miata came out I didn't know anyone who could afford to get one new as a toy either . . .
This conversation sums up why I want my fwd hatchback build to basically be a gravel rally suspension setup on skinny tires with a 8000 rpm engine that makes a great noise. Something that prioritizes fun and experience over speed.
I love my NB. Would I like to mod it a little? Yes. But that's also one of the benefits of owning a Miata--lots of support from the aftermarket and owners. And it's also a lot of fun stock, especially in the snow w/winter tires
I agree with the floppy suspension part, it needs fixing. I have an ND2 built for the race track, and with JZR RS Pro suspension, adjustable control arms for corrected geometry, racing brake brakes with cooling, better lighter wheels with R-compound tires, 220hp and under 1000kg, it's now fast enough to match the laptimes I set on my old 997 GTS with a GT3 chassis and Trofeo R tires on the tight tracks around here. The Global Cup Car is similar (but heavier and with less power) so Mazda really does know what the Miata COULD be like. Why not an RS version that's a lot like my car? There are very few lightweight sportscars available any more, even the new Lotus is a bit of a heavy pig.
Renault had partenered with caterham on the initial development of the car but caterham pulled out early on due to cost. Apparently the caterham version would be less luxurious but offer the manual and then the Alpine would be as it is now. When caterham pulled out they never bothered with the manual
You are all wrong. The entire experience of driving sporty is to take old bit up van with blown shocks, and drive it at its limit two wheels in the air!, still being under speed limit. That what they do on race tracks but at 200 Mph.......
I can't fit. Too Tall. Six foot six. Shame... settled for a Fiesta ST. Not disappointed at all. Lives up to its hype. And no, I'm not prepared to do all of the things necessary to make me fit into a Miata.
I bought my first na kind of on whim. Never really bought into the hype. Driving it home on the freeway, I was far from impressed. But when I got back home, I took it on a local curvy road and everything made sense. I was just blown away at how balanced and predictable the car felt. It was just a very enjoyable motoring experience. Coming from s chassis, the build quality and reliability was just unmatched for being such an old car.
SOME ND's are approaching $40k which I agree is silly. But they start at $26k. I have an ND1 and a Mk7 GTI. The GTI is awesome, but for pure driving fun the ND beats it handily. I also agree that its silly that Mazda will not offer a legitimate firmer suspension option. Mine has upgraded sways, shocks and springs and its a totally different beast. Its definitely more fun and confidence inspiring than the stock setup.
Hey are your upgraded mods from flying miata ? At their web site they talk about a "decker suspension package ". Good to hear you really like your mods!
Outstanding content guys!!! I would love to hear your thoughts on the progression of American manufacturers in terms of cars that check all the boxes of classic sports cars (manual, engaging drive, communicative steering, handling, sound) at prices that aren’t bank breaking? Examples include, C7 grand sport, Camaro SS 1LE, Mustang GT350, to name a few.
I had a 19yr old stock NA and now a NB slightly modified by previous owner. Front strut brace and rear under braces as well- the NB is SOOOOO much more planted to the road than the NA it's like a totally different brand. Every day is insanely great- street-legal go-kart you can mash on the gas all the time.
I thought about buying Ohlins for my 2012 Miata but it's a sport with an open diff, doesn't deserve that much of a suspension upgrade. I just bought rx8 red/yellow sway bars to install. I'm happy enough with the stock suspension (although you are right, the suspension roll, particularly in the back, is anoying) of the NC2 that my understanding is upgrading sway bars should probably be sufficient enough for me on the street. Love my NC2
13:33 I bought my ND2 new because used ones were about the same price, but had thousands of additional miles of wear and tear. At least with my car, I was able to be sure that the engine was treated properly during the break-in period, for example
I would say the Fiesta ST qualifies as a fun low speed car. As a previous owner of one I was always having a good time, even in traffic. I sure wish we got the new one because according to Chris Harris its absolutely brilliant!
hyphen nailed it at the end, the giggle cars are expendable, they are affordable and replaceable. That's why you can giggle with a BRZ, it's no big deal if you wad it up and have to get another. great show.
Great conversation! I agree on so many levels. I think that my next car could be a Veloster N! My last purchase was a 2018 STI and I love it, but I bought it because I worried that the next generation will sound like the current WRX. I tired of writing that if it were for just numbers, Tesla can be almost always the answer, but for fun... Miata, Veloster-N, STI (in my case would be included), I had a GTI from 2008-2015, but I would never compare the fun that the STI gives me to the one the GTI gave me. STI, every day.
At 6’4” I don’t fit well. For me the 1984-87 Porsche 944 was the ticket. You could redline in every gear and not go to jail. Very tossable without biting you, and I loved the sounds it made.
The 924, too. Look up what Derek Bell has to say about his 924 Club Sport. The 924 GTP did very well at Le Mans in 1982, winning the IMSA category. th-cam.com/video/mYEt-1dRih8/w-d-xo.html
Somewhat surprised you didn't mention anything about the Kappa platform (Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice, Opel GT...etc.). They are laugh out loud, stupid fun!
My relationship with my 1994 Miata has been complicated...first of all, I didn't have the best luck in my used purchase (partly my fault for being an eager buyer) and it's been quite expensive honestly. If I had known the ND2 was coming, and if I had known what my 94 cost me and how long I've had to work on it, I would've just saved my money and bought a brand new ND2...it's been that bad. I love my Miata in terms of driving it, it's a true giggle factory; I find myself laughing in it below 40 MPH! I love playing around with trying to get the suspension right on it and dabbling in being a suspension designer and finding my own sweet spot (because they're too soft stock). But it's also flexible, and buzzy, and makes some other unpleasant noises, and it's bouncy, and it's loud, and it's 25 years old, and I'm finding myself getting tired of living with it, both in terms of the unrefined side of the driving experience, and in terms of the work and expense of the ownership experience.
What kind of shitbox would you have to buy for the maintenance costs of an NA to be comparable to the cost of an ND? NAs are some of the cheapest cars out there to maintain, parts are everywhere and there as cheap as any other Japanese car.
@@grahamnelson5376 Needed an engine rebuild, and I did new ancillaries (radiator, alternator, coils, pulleys, etc. etc.), I did all the suspension underneath it down to every bushing and bolt and cam lock, not to mention paying for lovely new XIDAs, adding chassis bracing, rebuilding brake calipers...it's a 20+ year old car and it had 170k+ miles and I want it to be dependable and tight. I could've avoided a lot of headache by performing a compression test before I bought it (the plan was to buy a car that didn't need an engine, and the engine was claimed to be a ~70k mile replacement when I bought it, but it was on its last legs anyway), but the suspension was something I wanted to do to any car I was going to buy. I don't do the cheap junkyard parts route; I favor OEM or better parts, I put in new rubber everywhere I could, new fasteners, and had a professional rebuild the engine (and that's far from a comprehensive list). Part of the cost that adds up to an ND includes a couple dead ends and mistaken approaches that happen in projects; ignoring those, it's a lot less than an ND. In the end I've invested in a pretty thorough mechanical rebuild of an NA, so it wasn't just "maintenance", while also spending some time and money just making mistakes and learning (because what else do we have to do in life?) I guess overall what I've found is, if you love the Miata, buy it. If you love the idea of turning the Miata into the kind of car you want it to be (as many people in the car world advocate and I have tried), beware...it can gobble up a lot of expense and effort and end up with flawed results. I still like the car, but after my experience, I'm confident saying Miata is not always the answer.
Matt Clark what you’ve discovered has nothing to do with the Miata, none of that stuff is maintenance . Modifying cars is expensive no matter what you buy.
@@grahamnelson5376 That's true with regard to a lot of what I've said, but the fact that the Miata is buzzy, and light, and not very comfortable to take you to the roads you want to drive on DO have to do with the Miata. Again, I still like the car, but I've had to accept it for what it is instead of what I was really hoping for. It's a fun local runabout that makes city schlepping and local backroads fun! It's not, however, a particularly good choice to slog it across the state and then drive the good roads _over there_ . If I had it all to do again, I would've been a much more careful buyer, bought a nice 986 Boxster S for like $15k, and not messed with it instead of trying to buy a $4k Miata and pile $15k into it to make the car I wanted out of a Miata. The Miata was not the answer for me, because it's not the car I wanted (even though I'm not crying about ending up with it). Therefore, with respect to the original video: *Miata is not always the answer.*
I had one as well and I love it too!! I love the fact that it is unloved, and it is also lighter than its predecessor, and has a better interior and its rear end is, I think, the best of all miatas. Take that, Jason
i had a japanese import 1990 na and it was the best car i have ever had, and i have had a lot of performance cars. on a track or mountain road with the top down mx5 is the best car.
Respect. Great episode. The "truth" could be just slightly beyond the OEM's canvas, using a few well-considered upgrades without spoiling the original design intent: grinworthy roadsters with explorable limits. Ours is an AP2 (2.2L) S2000 with Hondata tune that brings VTEC in at 3800 (vs stock's 6000) to bolster midrange & make the power curve linear (no goofy VTEC kick at 6K) = accessible 220 WHP and crisp throttle response. 750f / 600r Hyperco springs with Moton 2-way dampers, Comptech front co-ax swaybar, 255/40/17 RE-71s front & rear = enough grip to fuel starve on left turns if tank's below 3/4 full. Berk hi-flow cat, simple cold-air-induction ducting to stock inlet system (keeps IATs within 8 degrees F of ambient). Just did easily reversible bolt-ons in case we wanted to sell the car, but it's proven to be too fun to drive for us to sell -- that rifle-bolt shifter, great ergonomics, balanced chassis, visceral powerband / gearing / soundtrack on early Saturday morning drives through the twisties (or occasional auto-x in SCCA's "STR" Street Touring Roadster class). It's earned a permanent spot in our garage as the canyon scalpel, alongside a 987.2S being the GT / Wustof and reversible-restomod first-gen Z/28 Bowie knife. Seems like an ND2 with similar STR mods would be equally fun (and 400 lb lighter).
sways will do the trick with the body motion...but the miata is meant to be fun at or below the speed limit, no other cars can do that. They all have to go above and many times WAY above the speed limit to have any fun. Great example is my ND stock was very fun at and below the speed limit. Now that I have coilovers and sways I have to double+ the speed limit to have fun.
2002 TII or a 914-6 are also fun “Tossable” cars that replicate the Miata giggle experience. Miatas are absolutely fun cars but if it had a little more scare factor it would be 👌🏻.
Alfa 4C, Alpine A110, Supra? I feel like there are a ton of fun options available under $80K (let alone $150K), especially when also looking at used cars. Thoughts on those three?
needed new front brake discs pads, calipers and tyres for nb miata which cost me 225gbp all in, whereas for a 986 boxter one brake caliper costs 360gbp.
Smiled per hour for me has been either my 72 240Z or my 2 door 5 speed E36. My 13 1LE was awesome and fun, but not as much as the other two. My 88 turbo Le Baron running like 17psi was stupid fun too.
Nd2 and no engine swap , stop with the engine swap talk , like your going to go 200 mph in a Miata , there is no reason to engine swap a new Miata , The Miata limit stock far exceeds 99% of use on this TH-cam channel , keep it simple and don’t swap
ND2. NC is faster than NB mazdaspeed and of course NA, but it doesn't shine on a track at well as it should. Also never Ls swap unless you wanna turn a fun and capable car into a donut hog that doesn't go much faster than its stock form. Seriously if you want more power, better engines out there. Or just turbo. But the weakest link of the Mx5 is always the transmission... NC barely can handle 280 hp.
The idea is not to go faster but to drift better, and for a good amount of smoking tyres you need a good amount of power and torque as well :) Not a big fan of the turbo though, the bigger engine is the better engine.
My last Miata was a 2012 NC with Ohlins coilovers and a GT3071R turbocharger (about 290 WHP). I paid 12k for the car, 2k for the suspension, and about 8k for the engine mods and clutch. For 22k all in, there's not a more entertaining car.
ABARTH!!! 500 and 124 are insane for smiles per miles. Body roll on the ND and all miatas is what kills it for me. The 124 Abarth corners flat or with very, very little body roll at all. A much better drivers car, in my opinion. Hence why I now own the spider. Great topic and discussion! I wish it were longer. :)
smilepermile could, but then you’re missing out on all the other things that differentiate the ND and the 124. (Style, engine, etc.). You can customize anything, some more than others with varying potential and price point. But the discussion they’re having is over a stock car. Most people don’t modify their cars (I do, I have several things on order atm.) So in comparing apples to apples, stock for stock, it is in my opinion the Abarth is the better drivers car.
I own a 911, I've had Boxsters, Golf GTis, Civic Type R's, I've driven Nissan GTRs, Ferraris, Ariel Atoms, 911 GT3s.. I've done it I really have.. The ONLY car I miss is my NA Miata 1.6L, It was a bucket of shit, but I beat on it I did everything with it because it was affordable to do it.. I'm terrified of crashing my 911 on track, so it never goes there. I couldn't have given two shits about crashing my Miata. They're absolutely awesome cars and I'm firmly looking at an NC2 at the moment for this purpose, just to abuse and enjoy without guilt or fear of breaking it.
John Dempsey You’re right, and I think Mazda agrees with you. They don’t think they’d sell as many if it were purely a high strung performance oriented car. People can daily an ND2 if they wanted since it has a much more useful torque curve and way better fuel economy. The S2000 is certainly a more special car, but it’s much less daily capable.
Yes. It is important. I lost traction a lot in my NC with open differential. Even on dry pavement if I flick the wheel a bit much. My ND2 with limited slip is a dream. Instead of sliding to the right when losing traction from a stop, you go straight forward. Its lightweight. If its manual (which it should be or otherwise you're just buying the car for its looks and not it's fun factor), you'll be surprised how easy it is to spin your wheels without trying.
A $40k ND2 is for a fully-loaded RF, but the base ND2 can be had for $26k, which is a pretty good deal assuming that you can live with the soft top, cloth seats, and open differential.
Your experiences match mine. I drove faster more expensive stuff and then realized Miatas are often even better to drive. You can't overstate how good the Miata is to drive, even with price no object.
Unfortunately I haven't had the pleasure of driving one, but what about a Honda S2000? As far as dimensions, weight and price I feel it would be very similar to an NC2 with a red line very close to 9000RPM with Honda reliability and in theory a good chance of having the "giggle factor"
@Miguel Flores True but I just figured since Derek's first response to Jason's question was a 20+year old air-cooled Porsche I just felt I should mention the S2000 if they're just asking what's as fun as a Miata under the 150k mark in general.
They do have a similar fun factor but then you gotta throw in price. 20k or more for a 20 year old car that they don't make anymore and isn't as fast or as road hugging as an MX5 ND2 is now. Plus the power band of the S2k is a snooze till 2.5k before redline.
![The Porsche Carrera GT is fine. Until it’s not. - Spotlight feat. Jason Cammisa - Ep. 7 [UHD 4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uf3SDCFRDe4/mqdefault.jpg)
Carmudgeon and Cammisa being straight forward about the automotive world is what it needs today. Cammisa drives old, relatively slow cars but they happen to all redefine what driving is supposed to be. Even as a group who has driven most of my dream cars, the people at issimi and Cammisa understand that driving is about passion and smiles instead of speed and style. Respect.
This!! It needs to be publicly acclaimed. I love cars. I can't afford a new car. But even if I could, I would buy an old piece of expensive metal that makes me smile.
You stole my words... for a good cause! ;)
But speed and style is part of it though. For example the Viper. Looks good, goes like hell, sounds like shit.
I was nver bought into the Miata hype train, but I bought my first Miata this year after test driving an ND1 last year. I wound up finding a used ND1 Club with the Brembos for way cheap. I've never not had a great time in that car. Everytime I drive, I am all giggles. This car is so much fun even at normal speeds! It's such a joy to drive.
Your spot on! MX 5 perfected the roadster. Built for driving, not for repairs :)
I just bought an NC 2013 and I am enjoying it a lot. So much fun and I am barely doing 5-10 mph over the speed limit.
@@arricammarques1955 'built for driving not for repairs' Can't tell if sarcastic about the 'not built for repairs' is it really a headache to work on?? I have a mechanic who says does not like to work on them (compared to Honda and BMW)
@@wesleyrice2138 What he means is they typically don't break.
My 1989 na did 60,000 miles with only regular maintenance. And the only issue I ever had was a dead water pump, which conveniently happened about 5000 miles before it was due a belt change anyway.
As for hard to work on... Not really? Some stuff is annoying as space can be limited but I never found it any worse than anything else from the period.
Same for my base model 08 NC1
Caught this one waaaay late…great discussion on the Miata. I owned and daily-drove a 1997 Miata. After 12 years and 240,000 miles later (including snowy winter weather) my overwhelming impression was that no other machine has earned and kept my loyalty and adoration. I actually shed a tear after handing the keys over to the next owner. Embarrassing but honest moment.
Relatedly, perhaps two more topics: 1) fast car driven slowly vs slow car driven fast, 2) sports vs super car vs hypercar distinction
I'm one of the people who has bought the $40k giggle machine. ND2 RF Club BBS/Brembo/Recaro. Would absolutely do it again. It's fanfuckingtastic.
My dad has a 2016 miata its the closest car ive driven that reminded me of the fun on a crotch i used to have. Obviously not the speed but the joy of just driving back roads
Im 6’2. 225 its just too small for me to live with even as a toy. Great cars tho
7:30 Guy wakes up from a nightmare, rushes to tighten bolts on his sportscar.
We want more, make these longer and release them three times a day, thanks
$40K is for the anniversary or the fully loaded RF with Recaros and BBS/Brembo. You can get the exact same driving experience at $28-30K MSRP if you are ok with a soft top are willing to forgo the Recaros and the bbs wheels. Most dealerships are selling them for a couple grand under MSRP, which honestly makes it a bargain. If you’re patient you can easily find a loaded USED ND2 Club for $27K including the BBS wheels and some leather seats.
The motor tren... oh.. road and track !
Love my ND-RF! I'm not saying it's 'always' the answer, but I'm having a hard time finding where it's not!
something really fun under 150k? Gen-1 RX-8
5k for the car, 145k for engine rebuilds! gotta love rotaries!
this made me chuckle
Sounds like the inkjet printer of sports cars.
In my experience, the key to this is light weight. Cars under 2400 pounds have a liveliness that doesn't exist in heavier cars. I'm surprised Jason didn't mention the Elise. It's kind of the ultimate Miata in a way. Very tactile, very live, open air, extremely fun at any speed and yet combined with the handling and power to make it very potent on the track.
I've owned an Elise an Exige and I don't think they are the same as an MX5. The Elise platform doesn't have the same low speed enjoyment for me, they are a much more competent platform and need to be pushed harder for the giggles. Maybe an original Elise on very narrow low quality tyres had that, but everything gen two onwards didn't for me.
@@ImBarryScottCSS I drive the same roads at the same speeds in my Elise that I do in my NA Miata and get more enjoyment from it. For me it has to do with the feedback coming from the car and the Elise is telling me more. This is the reason I love the Elise. It only sees the street, I don't use it for high performance driving, and it's a thrill every time I get into it.
Miatas are awesome, and as an S2000 owner, I still wouldn't mind adding NC2 or ND to my garage. I would have to agree on a back road that the Miata is more fun. The S2000 is ready to kill you whereas the Miata is like a childhood playmate.
MX 5 reliability surpases Porsche. The cost of ownership rivals luxury brand roadsters.
Actually a stock AP2 is really good, handling is very neutral. The problem with the S2000, it has no soul compared to a Miata.
As an owner of an nc2 club hard top...it's an utter joy
You guys need to make these longer.... So at the end did Jason say Miata Is Always The Answer?
Sam Thomas 22 minutes is enough
I love you, Cammisa...but, a Hyundai Veloster N or GTI is not a better "giggle machine" than an ND2. Not on any planet. But you're still my favorite auto journalist, hands down. So, you're forgiven.
Jason. I Just (December 5, 2022( Bought A Used '19 ND2 RF for 27K 38,000 miles and like New What a great little car! I'm glad to hear you talk about it like that! Fan of yours too! It's everything I want in a sports car... for 10 grand off new.. Mazda is the only one that understands me.... and I will take care of it and it will last forever.. I hope this Miata Grin lasts forever also!
I was never in to Miata’s until I got NC as a cheep track car and realized I enjoy that car way more than E92 M3 . As a cheap track toy it is amazing .
I got a ND1 last year before used car prices went insane and it has been amazing to learn to drive better with it. Always had boring cars, last one was a Ford C-Max. There is a mountain road nearish me that has something like 140 turns on it. The car taught me it is way more capable than I. Now I want to learn more.
A basic NB1 with LSD, 5speed, proper suspension set up, 185 or 195 section tires, headers & exhaust, pads and rotors, is the best Miata experience.
I had my '99 Miata NB a year before I got my driver license , which was the reason why I got my license in the first place (which in Germany was almost as expensive as the car itself).
Yes, the 110 hp 1.6 is very slow, but you just need twisty roads and BOOOM = fun.
Last week my dream was partially shattered, now a car I own is praised. This guys are really playing me. Love every minute of it!! Keep on. And forget the 20 minute rule please! Thanks!
For me, the Miata really taps into the feeling I get from old motorcycles, especially with the top down. You get the same kind of visibility, the feeling of being slightly vulnerable but can drive circles around traffic, and accelerating does involve dropping 2 or 3 gears and giving it some RPM. The NC2 even gets the same sort of mileage as my old 400 2-stroke Kawasaki.
**Silently waits for delivery of a new ND2 🤭
As far as I can see, not a single mention of the car that took the driving mantle from the MX5.......the MKIII Toyota MR2. I have owned an MX5, a Lotus Elise S1 and the MR2 and of the three, the MR2 was the most "drivable" on a daily basis. Without a doubt, the Elise was hands down the best fun this side of a Caterham you can have with your trousers on. It's a spectacular car and I miss it dearly. I really do. I would have another one in a heartbeat. The MX5 was good. I liked it. Nice car. But that was the thing for me....it was "nice". The car that had the best of both worlds? The MKIII MR2. That thing was pretty quick, awesome gearshift, was compliant enough to use as a daily driver, its engine was an absolute peach (over 7K out of the box in standard form and a kick from the VVTi that was just lovely), its steering was super super communicative, it handled with a fair bit of grip and would be pretty faithful to what you did with it. It ONLY ever bit you if you were being a bit of an idiot with it. It's brakes were hitting a wall good and was bomb proof reliable. Cheapest sports car to own and tun I have ever had. Styling was.....so so, I will admit that. Bit like a bathtub, but I forgave it everything for the way it drove. And yet, in ever conversation I see like this, its always very sadly overlooked. SUCH a good car.
You say all that to ultimately say this...
You preferred the MR2. The world preferred the MX5. Two great cars.
I had both a mark three mr2 and a mark 2 mx5. The distinction for me was that the toyota felt like a scalpel - turn in was notably quicker and that was just one of the ways that it drove better, but I didn’t love it. I had all the pieces, but it wasn’t as fun as the miata to me.
The mr2 wasn’t helped by me being short and the doors coming up higher - at roundabouts all I could ever see was the wing mirrors and I couldn’t place it as well as the miata.
@@cobenblack1876 I’m short too. 5’ 5”. Never had that issue with the Mk 3 but then I like to be enclosed and feeling like I was sat in, not say on, the car. It’s why I dismissed the MG-TF straight away when deciding first off. That sat so high even for a shorty like me. But that’s a personal choice I guess.
I think for me it was that difference in the way the MR2 shoe compared to the MX5. The sharpness of it. It felt more focused. Coming from a VERY low level motorsport background as well has having a Lotus Elise in the middle of all of this, the MK3 suited my driving and how I like to drive a lot more than the MX5. Don’t get me wrong, the MX5 is a very very good car and deserves its popularity and the niche focus of the MR2 is the reason it didn’t sell in anywhere near the numbers of the MX5. It was less accessible to most people, especially when you took into consideration things like practicality.
But I loved my MK3. I loved my MK1’s as well. A very defined blood like along them for sure.
@@johnnyboy114 this is all well and good, but the MR2 is a horrible car compared to the Miata.
@@JCDenton95 how so?
Jason started out saying “I’m just here to argue” ended up agreeing with most of the stuff Derek said.
Finally!! Unabashed love for the NC 2 from some car journos.
Love mine, never understood the hate.
Great episode, guys. Have you ever driven a final gen Toyota MR2/MRS?
Love the conversation. In fact I started watching this show because of Jason's Ignition comparison of the Mazda with the Fiat 124.
I had already fallen for the car after reading the 2016 Car and Driver article on the automatic and seeing at the new body style in person. So when a new 2017 ND1 with an automatic showed up for sale in July of 2018 I bought it. The dealer said it had been sitting around at the back of the lot and they wanted it gone because the 2019s were coming and the clincher was that the price was $8100 off the sticker on a new car. At the time I wasn't all that excited about the automatic but I've owned 11 cars with a stick shift and the new automatic on this thing is just fine. It's now the only car I own and has made it really difficult for me to decide on what to buy next. It's hard to be satisfied with a car when your baseline is a Mazda MX5. I do have to admit that the 2020 ND2 Club manual I drove yesterday is almost a different car than the 2017 ND1 GT auto but If I have to choose one to everyday the time I'll keep the softer auto. Love Derek's comment about "the ass pain" of owning an old car and Jason is right, the ND is kinda floppy but then again so am I.
" Two relatively young people " - one much more relatively younger than the other :)
I'm just listening to this episode today. If I were to buy a sports car (I currently only have only one parking space for my condo, and it's filled by a 4-door 3 cylinder grin-inducing 6-speed manual Mini Cooper) as a second car, it would be an Na2 (1.8 liter) and then toss on some flying Miata goodies: the stage 1 turbo and suspension. Yes, the n/a experience is better than a turbo, but who can resist nearly doubling the rear wheel hp? One day, one day.
Great stuff. Pls talk about the best unloved Porsche, the Cayman👍
So what you guys are saying about the Miata and how it made you laugh and feel while driving it are what made me buy my NC3 and also to the point the ND is too expensive and I bought my NC3 for 15k with 20k on the clock 3 years ago. So I agree with you say 100%
"If you don't want the ass-pain of owning old cars" PERFECT.
Yep, Peugeot 205 GTI and it's bigger brother the 309 GTI are hell of a fun car. One of the best hot hatches ever.
I still remember when I let my good friend drive my NA Miata through the Oakland/Berkeley hills-he laughed the whole time. Maybe the happiest I've ever seen him. Miatas are great cars. Also I'm with Jason-salaries are not keeping up with the cost of a Miata. Then again, when the Miata came out I didn't know anyone who could afford to get one new as a toy either . . .
@9:46 THIS. The very best positive quality of the Miata (and there are many) is simply that no other car delivers more fun for less money.
This conversation sums up why I want my fwd hatchback build to basically be a gravel rally suspension setup on skinny tires with a 8000 rpm engine that makes a great noise. Something that prioritizes fun and experience over speed.
But you can have speed too. K swap son.
@@Turshin I'll take a b16 and keep my cable throttle and clutch, thanks. Dont want 200+ at the wheels in a small fwd.
My 1st car was an 81 Scirocco S! I have a 94 Miata with 400whp! It's an insanely awesome fun car! Lots of pucker factor and fun.
I love my NB. Would I like to mod it a little? Yes. But that's also one of the benefits of owning a Miata--lots of support from the aftermarket and owners. And it's also a lot of fun stock, especially in the snow w/winter tires
I agree with the floppy suspension part, it needs fixing. I have an ND2 built for the race track, and with JZR RS Pro suspension, adjustable control arms for corrected geometry, racing brake brakes with cooling, better lighter wheels with R-compound tires, 220hp and under 1000kg, it's now fast enough to match the laptimes I set on my old 997 GTS with a GT3 chassis and Trofeo R tires on the tight tracks around here. The Global Cup Car is similar (but heavier and with less power) so Mazda really does know what the Miata COULD be like. Why not an RS version that's a lot like my car? There are very few lightweight sportscars available any more, even the new Lotus is a bit of a heavy pig.
Imagine if the Alpine A110 came with a manual!
More like,
Imagine if they sold it in North America.
I started watching GT4 racing just to watch that lil dynamo punch upward.
Yes. Miata or Alpine. And indeed: why no manual in the 110?
@@asphalthedgehog6580 Apparently, Alpine didn't have the budget to develop both a manual and a DCT.
@@VIJAYSANKAR I also read somewhere,that a manual transmission is overall heavier than a DCT.
Renault had partenered with caterham on the initial development of the car but caterham pulled out early on due to cost. Apparently the caterham version would be less luxurious but offer the manual and then the Alpine would be as it is now. When caterham pulled out they never bothered with the manual
You are all wrong. The entire experience of driving sporty is to take old bit up van with blown shocks, and drive it at its limit two wheels in the air!, still being under speed limit. That what they do on race tracks but at 200 Mph.......
I can't fit. Too Tall. Six foot six. Shame... settled for a Fiesta ST. Not disappointed at all. Lives up to its hype.
And no, I'm not prepared to do all of the things necessary to make me fit into a Miata.
we have a 6 foot 9 or so guy that dailys an NA. he just did tall people mods.
bought one, too much fun!
You can fit, you need to bolt an Elise/Exige seat to the floor.
@Akumu As the saying from Clarkson goes "if I want to fit into something I will." or close to those lines.
I bought my first na kind of on whim. Never really bought into the hype. Driving it home on the freeway, I was far from impressed. But when I got back home, I took it on a local curvy road and everything made sense. I was just blown away at how balanced and predictable the car felt. It was just a very enjoyable motoring experience. Coming from s chassis, the build quality and reliability was just unmatched for being such an old car.
SOME ND's are approaching $40k which I agree is silly. But they start at $26k. I have an ND1 and a Mk7 GTI. The GTI is awesome, but for pure driving fun the ND beats it handily. I also agree that its silly that Mazda will not offer a legitimate firmer suspension option. Mine has upgraded sways, shocks and springs and its a totally different beast. Its definitely more fun and confidence inspiring than the stock setup.
Hey are your upgraded mods from flying miata ? At their web site they talk about a "decker suspension package ".
Good to hear you really like your mods!
Jim Knowles Yes. I have the FM “Stage 2” package.
Outstanding content guys!!! I would love to hear your thoughts on the progression of American manufacturers in terms of cars that check all the boxes of classic sports cars (manual, engaging drive, communicative steering, handling, sound) at prices that aren’t bank breaking? Examples include, C7 grand sport, Camaro SS 1LE, Mustang GT350, to name a few.
I had a 19yr old stock NA and now a NB slightly modified by previous owner. Front strut brace and rear under braces as well- the NB is SOOOOO much more planted to the road than the NA it's like a totally different brand. Every day is insanely great- street-legal go-kart you can mash on the gas all the time.
I thought about buying Ohlins for my 2012 Miata but it's a sport with an open diff, doesn't deserve that much of a suspension upgrade. I just bought rx8 red/yellow sway bars to install. I'm happy enough with the stock suspension (although you are right, the suspension roll, particularly in the back, is anoying) of the NC2 that my understanding is upgrading sway bars should probably be sufficient enough for me on the street. Love my NC2
You'll be giggling in German in a GTI. Hahaha
13:33 I bought my ND2 new because used ones were about the same price, but had thousands of additional miles of wear and tear. At least with my car, I was able to be sure that the engine was treated properly during the break-in period, for example
I would say the Fiesta ST qualifies as a fun low speed car. As a previous owner of one I was always having a good time, even in traffic. I sure wish we got the new one because according to Chris Harris its absolutely brilliant!
I love mine!
This is fucking epic because finally Jaison now has a podcast and pls pls pls make these longer! like 1 hour or something haha
hyphen nailed it at the end, the giggle cars are expendable, they are affordable and replaceable. That's why you can giggle with a BRZ, it's no big deal if you wad it up and have to get another. great show.
Regarding the body roll, throw on some bigger sways and shocks and springs. ~1500 USD and the car is perfect
Great conversation!
I agree on so many levels. I think that my next car could be a Veloster N! My last purchase was a 2018 STI and I love it, but I bought it because I worried that the next generation will sound like the current WRX. I tired of writing that if it were for just numbers, Tesla can be almost always the answer, but for fun... Miata, Veloster-N, STI (in my case would be included), I had a GTI from 2008-2015, but I would never compare the fun that the STI gives me to the one the GTI gave me. STI, every day.
NB is my fav of the mx5's
had an mx3 too, v6. rarely mentioned
So its settled, its always the answer to giggles!
I mean...I'd miss Derek Tam Hyphen Scott if you axed him, Slideways. So behave yourself!
At 6’4” I don’t fit well. For me the 1984-87 Porsche 944 was the ticket. You could redline in every gear and not go to jail. Very tossable without biting you, and I loved the sounds it made.
The 924, too. Look up what Derek Bell has to say about his 924 Club Sport. The 924 GTP did very well at Le Mans in 1982, winning the IMSA category. th-cam.com/video/mYEt-1dRih8/w-d-xo.html
im 6'2 and i fit perfectly. just slight tall guy mods and you would fit mint.
Somewhat surprised you didn't mention anything about the Kappa platform (Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice, Opel GT...etc.). They are laugh out loud, stupid fun!
Glad to find this on Tune-in so I can listen on the go
My relationship with my 1994 Miata has been complicated...first of all, I didn't have the best luck in my used purchase (partly my fault for being an eager buyer) and it's been quite expensive honestly. If I had known the ND2 was coming, and if I had known what my 94 cost me and how long I've had to work on it, I would've just saved my money and bought a brand new ND2...it's been that bad. I love my Miata in terms of driving it, it's a true giggle factory; I find myself laughing in it below 40 MPH! I love playing around with trying to get the suspension right on it and dabbling in being a suspension designer and finding my own sweet spot (because they're too soft stock). But it's also flexible, and buzzy, and makes some other unpleasant noises, and it's bouncy, and it's loud, and it's 25 years old, and I'm finding myself getting tired of living with it, both in terms of the unrefined side of the driving experience, and in terms of the work and expense of the ownership experience.
What kind of shitbox would you have to buy for the maintenance costs of an NA to be comparable to the cost of an ND? NAs are some of the cheapest cars out there to maintain, parts are everywhere and there as cheap as any other Japanese car.
@@grahamnelson5376 Needed an engine rebuild, and I did new ancillaries (radiator, alternator, coils, pulleys, etc. etc.), I did all the suspension underneath it down to every bushing and bolt and cam lock, not to mention paying for lovely new XIDAs, adding chassis bracing, rebuilding brake calipers...it's a 20+ year old car and it had 170k+ miles and I want it to be dependable and tight. I could've avoided a lot of headache by performing a compression test before I bought it (the plan was to buy a car that didn't need an engine, and the engine was claimed to be a ~70k mile replacement when I bought it, but it was on its last legs anyway), but the suspension was something I wanted to do to any car I was going to buy. I don't do the cheap junkyard parts route; I favor OEM or better parts, I put in new rubber everywhere I could, new fasteners, and had a professional rebuild the engine (and that's far from a comprehensive list). Part of the cost that adds up to an ND includes a couple dead ends and mistaken approaches that happen in projects; ignoring those, it's a lot less than an ND. In the end I've invested in a pretty thorough mechanical rebuild of an NA, so it wasn't just "maintenance", while also spending some time and money just making mistakes and learning (because what else do we have to do in life?)
I guess overall what I've found is, if you love the Miata, buy it. If you love the idea of turning the Miata into the kind of car you want it to be (as many people in the car world advocate and I have tried), beware...it can gobble up a lot of expense and effort and end up with flawed results. I still like the car, but after my experience, I'm confident saying Miata is not always the answer.
Matt Clark what you’ve discovered has nothing to do with the Miata, none of that stuff is maintenance . Modifying cars is expensive no matter what you buy.
@@grahamnelson5376 That's true with regard to a lot of what I've said, but the fact that the Miata is buzzy, and light, and not very comfortable to take you to the roads you want to drive on DO have to do with the Miata. Again, I still like the car, but I've had to accept it for what it is instead of what I was really hoping for. It's a fun local runabout that makes city schlepping and local backroads fun! It's not, however, a particularly good choice to slog it across the state and then drive the good roads _over there_ . If I had it all to do again, I would've been a much more careful buyer, bought a nice 986 Boxster S for like $15k, and not messed with it instead of trying to buy a $4k Miata and pile $15k into it to make the car I wanted out of a Miata. The Miata was not the answer for me, because it's not the car I wanted (even though I'm not crying about ending up with it). Therefore, with respect to the original video: *Miata is not always the answer.*
miata is ALWAYS the answer. I had more fun in my NA mx5 then my 911.
Agreed. Owned an NA and still the most fun car I've owned.
Absolutely love my MK2 MX5! On my 3rd! 👍🏻🤘🏻
I had one as well and I love it too!! I love the fact that it is unloved, and it is also lighter than its predecessor, and has a better interior and its rear end is, I think, the best of all miatas.
Take that, Jason
doppiamente agree! Had a MK1 1.6 and then 1.8 v-spec. Miss the lights of the mk1 but my mk2 s has LSD and 1.8 engine. No brainier
i had a japanese import 1990 na and it was the best car i have ever had, and i have had a lot of performance cars. on a track or mountain road with the top down mx5 is the best car.
Respect. Great episode. The "truth" could be just slightly beyond the OEM's canvas, using a few well-considered upgrades without spoiling the original design intent: grinworthy roadsters with explorable limits. Ours is an AP2 (2.2L) S2000 with Hondata tune that brings VTEC in at 3800 (vs stock's 6000) to bolster midrange & make the power curve linear (no goofy VTEC kick at 6K) = accessible 220 WHP and crisp throttle response. 750f / 600r Hyperco springs with Moton 2-way dampers, Comptech front co-ax swaybar, 255/40/17 RE-71s front & rear = enough grip to fuel starve on left turns if tank's below 3/4 full. Berk hi-flow cat, simple cold-air-induction ducting to stock inlet system (keeps IATs within 8 degrees F of ambient). Just did easily reversible bolt-ons in case we wanted to sell the car, but it's proven to be too fun to drive for us to sell -- that rifle-bolt shifter, great ergonomics, balanced chassis, visceral powerband / gearing / soundtrack on early Saturday morning drives through the twisties (or occasional auto-x in SCCA's "STR" Street Touring Roadster class). It's earned a permanent spot in our garage as the canyon scalpel, alongside a 987.2S being the GT / Wustof and reversible-restomod first-gen Z/28 Bowie knife. Seems like an ND2 with similar STR mods would be equally fun (and 400 lb lighter).
My day is complete!! Keep them coming!!!
The guy walking away at 7:30 must’ve just remembered to tighten the bolts on his vintage ride lol
sways will do the trick with the body motion...but the miata is meant to be fun at or below the speed limit, no other cars can do that. They all have to go above and many times WAY above the speed limit to have any fun.
Great example is my ND stock was very fun at and below the speed limit. Now that I have coilovers and sways I have to double+ the speed limit to have fun.
2002 TII or a 914-6 are also fun “Tossable” cars that replicate the Miata giggle experience. Miatas are absolutely fun cars but if it had a little more scare factor it would be 👌🏻.
Wow, production quality and goofy factor have come a long way in 4 years.
These two have me considering picking up an NC2.
I had one for 15 months before I had to get rid of it and get a real car that can carry stuff. To this day I miss it.
Alfa 4C, Alpine A110, Supra? I feel like there are a ton of fun options available under $80K (let alone $150K), especially when also looking at used cars. Thoughts on those three?
Rohan Iyer well one got my vote. Guess which one?
All three of those would be disqualified simply because none of them have a manual.
Maybe an M2 comp with manual as well?
"The fastest car down any mountain is a miata"
Suzuki Cappuccino : I'm about to end this man's whole career
needed new front brake discs pads, calipers and tyres for nb miata which cost me 225gbp all in, whereas for a 986 boxter one brake caliper costs 360gbp.
Skoda Fabia Mk1 VR-s - TDi hot hatch!! What the? It's all mid range, but a lot of fun.
I have a pretty clean 94 NA you could drive, and I think you would love it.
'75 911S 3.2SS 230hp and 2700 lbs, short gears and loud crackling exhaust = Hella fun.
I have a hot rodded VW Fox that makes me giggle every time I drive it. It defies logic, but it's really a complete hoot.
The only Miata I haven’t liked so far was a first year ND. Need to drive a ND2.
I love that these guys don't hate on FWD cars. They can be very fun.
Smiled per hour for me has been either my 72 240Z or my 2 door 5 speed E36. My 13 1LE was awesome and fun, but not as much as the other two. My 88 turbo Le Baron running like 17psi was stupid fun too.
Honda Integra DC2 Type R is a giggle, as is a last generation Celica, and the SW20 MR2.
So... The best of Miata is stock NC2?
What about 2.5 engine swap or supercharged (not turbocharged) ? Does it make it worst?
K swap or LS swaps are the only ones that are worth having.
Nd2 and no engine swap , stop with the engine swap talk , like your going to go 200 mph in a Miata , there is no reason to engine swap a new Miata ,
The Miata limit stock far exceeds 99% of use on this TH-cam channel , keep it simple and don’t swap
ND2. NC is faster than NB mazdaspeed and of course NA, but it doesn't shine on a track at well as it should.
Also never Ls swap unless you wanna turn a fun and capable car into a donut hog that doesn't go much faster than its stock form. Seriously if you want more power, better engines out there. Or just turbo. But the weakest link of the Mx5 is always the transmission... NC barely can handle 280 hp.
The idea is not to go faster but to drift better, and for a good amount of smoking tyres you need a good amount of power and torque as well :)
Not a big fan of the turbo though, the bigger engine is the better engine.
My last Miata was a 2012 NC with Ohlins coilovers and a GT3071R turbocharger (about 290 WHP). I paid 12k for the car, 2k for the suspension, and about 8k for the engine mods and clutch. For 22k all in, there's not a more entertaining car.
RIP, Derek. :)
The thing about Miata's is that they give so much confidence.
ABARTH!!! 500 and 124 are insane for smiles per miles. Body roll on the ND and all miatas is what kills it for me. The 124 Abarth corners flat or with very, very little body roll at all. A much better drivers car, in my opinion. Hence why I now own the spider.
Great topic and discussion! I wish it were longer. :)
You could've got some affordable aftermarket coilover suspension and sway bars for the Mazda ND
smilepermile could, but then you’re missing out on all the other things that differentiate the ND and the 124. (Style, engine, etc.). You can customize anything, some more than others with varying potential and price point. But the discussion they’re having is over a stock car. Most people don’t modify their cars (I do, I have several things on order atm.)
So in comparing apples to apples, stock for stock, it is in my opinion the Abarth is the better drivers car.
I own a 911, I've had Boxsters, Golf GTis, Civic Type R's, I've driven Nissan GTRs, Ferraris, Ariel Atoms, 911 GT3s.. I've done it I really have.. The ONLY car I miss is my NA Miata 1.6L, It was a bucket of shit, but I beat on it I did everything with it because it was affordable to do it.. I'm terrified of crashing my 911 on track, so it never goes there. I couldn't have given two shits about crashing my Miata.
They're absolutely awesome cars and I'm firmly looking at an NC2 at the moment for this purpose, just to abuse and enjoy without guilt or fear of breaking it.
12:09 Very good point Jason. Our incomes have not kept up with inflation at all.
Well, Miata sales for 2020 4th quarter was good. Actually, my dealership reached out asking me if I am interested on trade in my ND2 RF.
S2000 is exactly what Jason wants the 'Speed ND2 to be.
Yup, surprised they didn't mention it. $15-$20k gets you a great S2000 with 60k miles...
If the ND did rev to 9k and made 200+ hp. I'd be the first in line.
Nd is faster than s2000 , it doesn’t rev as high but has a way better torque curve
Nd2 is better than s2000 for everyday driving,
John Dempsey You’re right, and I think Mazda agrees with you. They don’t think they’d sell as many if it were purely a high strung performance oriented car. People can daily an ND2 if they wanted since it has a much more useful torque curve and way better fuel economy. The S2000 is certainly a more special car, but it’s much less daily capable.
ToxicHorsePucky I love the s2000 , but Mazda needs an approachable car for Hairdressers too , and old men like me
The base Miata is 25k. Is the limited slip that important with 150 tq? I’m not so sure
i slip my nd1s tires with an LSD all the time
m bob hmm so you don’t recommend the base model
Yes. It is important. I lost traction a lot in my NC with open differential. Even on dry pavement if I flick the wheel a bit much. My ND2 with limited slip is a dream. Instead of sliding to the right when losing traction from a stop, you go straight forward.
Its lightweight. If its manual (which it should be or otherwise you're just buying the car for its looks and not it's fun factor), you'll be surprised how easy it is to spin your wheels without trying.
Chris Priestley thanks so much for this! I hate that the upgrade to Club is a whole $5k. Wonder if I can get the lsd aftermarket ?
@@Rambiker2023chief everyone with the base model wishes they had an LSD. The sport model is kinda shitty.
Can you elaborate on what well set up means? Are we talking about suspension geometry or more?
Haha this was a fun listen. Is there a podcast?
Buttoned down 9k redline 🤔 oh s2000 is always the answer ☺
I would absolutely LOVE an ND2 Miata, but certainly can't justify $40,000. Unfortunate, but at least there's the NA.
A $40k ND2 is for a fully-loaded RF, but the base ND2 can be had for $26k, which is a pretty good deal assuming that you can live with the soft top, cloth seats, and open differential.
Your experiences match mine. I drove faster more expensive stuff and then realized Miatas are often even better to drive. You can't overstate how good the Miata is to drive, even with price no object.
just when I was thinking about a Miata :D
Unfortunately I haven't had the pleasure of driving one, but what about a Honda S2000? As far as dimensions, weight and price I feel it would be very similar to an NC2 with a red line very close to 9000RPM with Honda reliability and in theory a good chance of having the "giggle factor"
David Begley well in terms of PCOTY, I think they only use new current cars. S2000 has been gone for a while now
@Miguel Flores True but I just figured since Derek's first response to Jason's question was a 20+year old air-cooled Porsche I just felt I should mention the S2000 if they're just asking what's as fun as a Miata under the 150k mark in general.
They do have a similar fun factor but then you gotta throw in price. 20k or more for a 20 year old car that they don't make anymore and isn't as fast or as road hugging as an MX5 ND2 is now. Plus the power band of the S2k is a snooze till 2.5k before redline.