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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- So in Jak & Daxter 2 (Jak II Renegade), time travel was introduced. When it comes to time travelling aspects, out of Ratchet & Clank and Sly Cooper, Jak & Daxter has succeeded at confusing a lot of us.
What is time travel in Jak 2 Renegade? It's a pure time loop. At the ending of Jak 2, Samos had explained that it was Jak's destiny to go back in time to Sandover village along with young Samos.
Although is is a time loop, there is an exit. After Kor got defeated, Jak & Daxter continued going on adventures in Jak 3 and so on. There was no sacrifice needed to be made, as in there is a time loop but our main characters still lived on.
Follow me on Twitter: / vtnvivi - เกม
Again I'll summarise:
-Kor takes a look into the past to see if what Onin said was true.
-Had MAYBE set his eyes out for old Jak first (Jak growing up in Haven City he thought).
-By going back to Haven, he thought he would end up in the future where young Jak was already sent. He had intended to use old Jak to activate the stone.
-Fortunate enough to end up in Haven where young Jak was still present. Since old Jak was corrupted by Dark Eco, he used young Jak; in other words, everything was going according to plan.
If Kor had ended up in Haven when Jak was already sent, he would no longer be able to go to the past, because the last rift gate was used to send young Jak and Samos. He was fortunate enough to end up in Haven where young Jak was still present.
But WAIT, if Kor and the gang had already used the last rift gate, how come they were still able to use it? We can assume the last rift gate was still in working condition. After the gang followed their destiny and went back, that's when the rift gate got destroyed.
VTNVIVI Ok, you could explain the time travel between "Jak and Daxter" and "Jak II". However, at the end of "Jak III", Jak said to his gang something about "I'd like to be called by my really name: Mar", so Ashelin get confused about Jak could be "that Mar" we all hear during the trilogy. Is that true? Is Jak that "Mar"? If yes, How could be him? I'll appreciate a lot if you can make a video about this :D
Santiago Bonelli nun I don't think Jak is mar because they never shown at the end of jak3 that Jak never went back to the pass to build haven city since mar him self build haven city.
And Jak said at the end of the 3th game you could called me by my first name mar.
I think Jak is name after mar not the mar that build haven city.
I think he is the son of mar though, i may be wrong though. also if Jak 4 ever come out there could be a part where he does go back and builds Haven City.
Your quotes are inaccurate, but it should be common sense that Jak is only Mar's descendant, named after him in honor.
VTNVIVI ok let's just say the game daxter actually happened if u played or watched gameplay u will see kor told the baron to go with the dark warrior program once jak came through the rift gate wouldn't he know already that jak will be tainted with dark eco?
Time travel always manages to hurt my brain
I know :(
Hard to get round it
Jak 2 honestly has the most straightforward time travel I've seen in a game. It's not really complicated. Jak, Born in the future, sent to the past to grow up and get strong, gets sent to the future, kills Kor, sends his younger self to the past. And it's safe to assume that Kor could've just naturally lived the entire 300 year gap seeing as how he was already the precursor's ancient enemy. Really straight forward.
Not often I hear people use the term straightforward :P
@@VtnVivi No I suppose not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@orangexlightning interesting
But originally how did his future self send his past self to the past if old jak doesn’t exist yet
isn't 300 years a little too soon for a primitive island civilization to become a massive city-state? Remember Mar is said to have founded Haven City in ANCIENT TIMES. Idk about you but when I think of "ancient times" I think about well over 1000 years ago, not 300.
we need jak 4 for the answers.
Hey I mean we might never get the answer even in a new game.
Oh nonono here:
Jak is born in haven city and he meets older jak (jak2) and older jack sends him and young Samos 300 years back in time when haven city hasn’t been built yet, they live in sand over village for years, after jack and daxter have got all of the power cells they travel 300 years into the future(a couple months before young jack gets sent to the past) when they arrive in the future jack gets touched by dark ego and explores haven city built by the ancient Mar(Future Jak), jak saves haven city, defeats Kor and sends his younger self back 300 years into the future(Loop)
After jak has saved haven city and sent his younger self to the past to become him he gets banished to the wastelands (jak3) and meets his father (Damos) after saving haven city again and the wastelands jak continues his journey in jak4?????? After some events jak decides to travel back in time to the past to sandover village after jak (jak1) has traveled to the future and he calls himself by his true name(Mar) and he builds haven city from the ground by sandover village after years of construction when haven city is finally built jak is old and hides the Precursor thing in his tomb before he eventually dies. That’s the end of Jak LOL
this is clever indeed.
Alex Drez very
@@alexdrez4505 that's what I think but still complicated, why jak would go to the past again.. (destiny?)
the way I play jak and daxter is I play through jak two, jak and daxter precursor legacy, jak two again (for story purposes), jak 3 and then jak X. Jak and daxter the lost frontier should never have existed.
Oh :O
We dont talk about lost frontier
Wow
Do you mind explaining more why you play in that order
You should be playing through Jak 2 again in HERO MODE. Cause now you're a true hero.
It's a simple causal loop. The OG crew get shot into the future, meet young jak and young Samos who get sent back in time to safety, where they grow older, daxter and Keira come into the picture, and then do it all over again.
Exactly!
Jt Hogan but i think what most fans want to know is.....how did it START? The loop had to have began somewhere. Meaning something different had to have happened to cause the loop to begin. Like Jak didnt send his younger self back the first time, after that he did and it became repetitive. U get me?
Some people believe that you can't change the past. So this loop didn't have a beginning. It's just the way it has always been and will always be.
Thats a fact , i’ll tell u what happened jack and samos got kidnapped from the past and sent to the future
No one knows how it started
I love how throughout Jak 2 itself, they reference the time travel and hint that the boy is Jak.
Samos: "So, this is how it happened..."
Samos: "Find yourself, Jak!"
Errol: "We've been waiting for you."
Pecker: "Onin says it's good to see you again, Jak."
Jak: "But we've never met before?"
God, I love this game.
Indeed!
Samos also calls the boy "young Jak" in the final cutscene of Jak 2, along with Jak telling him to "Avoid any wumpbee nests on his 9th birthday"
Oh you see what he said to Onin? My theory I came up with ever since I played jak 2 for the first time back in...when was it? 03 or 04 i believe...anyways, my theory has always been that Onin is the bird lady. But then, years later like around between 2015-2021, I made another theory for online, which is that she's a descendant OF the bird lady. But I feel like my first theory makes way more sense because if she was a descendant of the bird lady then how would she know jake? Now that doesn't make sense. But what also doesn't make sense is how she survived for that long.
Bit late to the party but also when Young Jak hands old Jak the security pass. It really focused on them touching hands.
This is basically what happened without any real explanation of why it happened.
-Young Jak sent to past by older self
-Grows up and goes through events in 1st game
-Goes through rift
-Defeats Kor and sends younger self to past
-Goes through events of Jak III, Jak X and that other game which doesn't even deserve mentioning.
-??? (Jak 4 and we'd know more).
Pretty much :P
The best premise for an actual Jak 4 would be Jak and Daxter and whoever else, being sent back in time after the events of Jak 3 to some actual time between leaving Sandover Village and getting to Haven City, which is when that Great War must have happened that they talk about in Jak 2 and 3, and that is where we would see the events of Jak coming to be known as Mar.
@@jthogan7642 I know this was 2 years ago, but how could Jax X happen if and when jak 4 ever is made if he gets sent back after the events of Jak 3?
Let's pretend TLF isn't canon.
Man I remember first finding out about the time travel thing at the end of jak 2 as a kid it blew my freaking mind
Jak 2 has most confusing storyline only losing to BioShock Infinite
Tell me about it.
PEOPLE MAKE VIDEOS ABOUT JAK IN 2017!?!?!??! OH MY GOD
Crazy I know O_O
VTNVIVI I love you
And people follow it in 2019 haha!
Just like San Andreas, Jak and Daxter are legendary.
And I am watching in 2024
My brain does not hurt that much... it makes sense in a way.
I watch too much doctor who.
Ohh, what a relief XD
My G
keep making jak and daxter videos. Favorite games ever. This was my childhood and would pay hundreds of dollars for another (real) jak and daxter. Good work. Keep it up
Another theory could be that Jak 2 could could be the first loop essentially
In the future young Jak is born. As Jak 3 explains he is brought up in Haven city to be a weapon.
The metal head war still happens, but without adult Jak showing up, as he doesn't exist in this time.
The baron gets the last precursor egg and without adult Jak to stop him, he successfully detonates it.
Onin could see that if Jak grew up, he could beat Kor and the Baron, thus saving everyone.
She tells the underground this and in a last ditch effort they send Jak and their leader, Samos, to the past.
Kor sees them escape and jumps into the rift gate, and while he does see our Jak, he is swiftly shot to the future again.
From there Jak & Daxter 1 and 2 happen.
By the end however, Samos remembers that to keep time from paradoxing, they need to send young Jak and young Samos to the past.
This would explain how the loop was created without causing a paradox.
Ahh nice theory!
The Oracle said that Kor chased Mar through time, and that Mar hid his tracks well. Therefore we can deduce that the "last rift gate" doesn't really mean the last one in existence, it means the last one that Mar went through before founding Haven City, which was all that was between Kor and the last Precursor Stone, his one true goal. You don't really need a whole lot of back and forth or theories involving changing what was implied to have happened in Jak II. Kor went through the gate, Mar showed up, founded Haven City, 300 years later, older Jak shows up, etc. etc. I think Occam's Razor applies in this case.
Kor said that this is where it all began, knowing that at some point Jak did defeat him, which is how young Jak went back into the past. However, he misconstrued the idea that Onin believed Jak needed to be untouched by dark eco to defeat him. On the contrary, it's revealed in the spin-off Daxter game that Onin was actually the one who informed the Baron of Jak's arrival, knowing that he needed the dark powers to defeat Kor, which Kor himself did not know, thus his "original plan" that he thought all was going according to was foiled.
Also, no reason to believe Kor is immortal just because he can live for really long. He's not human, so he isn't necessarily restricted to human lifespans. That said, he lived for far longer than just "hundreds of years", at least if we're to believe that the "dark leader" the Oracle referred to was indeed Kor and not someone else.
Thank you for sharing! I purposely did not talk about Mar because that's whole complete different subject. True, Kor did chase Mar through time hence the phrase "you can't hide from be boy". Like I mentioned, Kor's presence at the rift gate wasn't really explained, it just left room for speculating. During the first time loop, Jak going to the future, Kor had no idea who old Jak was. Now in the second time loop, the one in which Onin predicted old Jak, Kor found out who Jak was. The way he was talking to him "It's you Jak!" makes it seem like he found out about this in this second time loop. So if Kor was chasing after Mar through the rift gate in Jak 2, sure we can say he was looking for Mar. If so, Kor later ended in a future where Haven City was founded, later to realise that Mar founded the city and hid the precursor stone. After all, Mar mysteriously died, meaning Kor wasn't involved in his death. Like you said, he goes through the rift gate trying to look for him, ends up in a future where Haven exists but with Mar dead.
But Jak is Mar, i'm confused. Mar had to have originated and founded haven city then seen a potential threat or a flaw and needed to go back in time to fix it so he found his young self and sent him even farther into the past to grow up? Where Mar would then die but because he basically duplicated himself he lives on to fulfill his destiny? It's like deja vu with Denzel Washington.
You forgot to note that the group panicked and accidentally launched themselves when Kor appeared in the rift gate. When metalheads began invading, they were calm and it would be possible for them to figure out how to close the gate, clean up the damage, and possibly get answers from Samos (Jak would get more training as well as experience in fighting metalheads before going to the future). Samos also never says a single word about the future until it was clear that the future is now written in stone. I like to believe there are two different time "loops" and they cross each other like a figure 8.
In the first "loop", we get a fully trained older Jak going into the future when he wants to. This Jak is armed and ready to lead the war against Kor. Kor doesn't like his odds against this older Jak and tries to find answers. By appearing in the past, he creates the second "loop" where Jak enters the future pre-maturely with no knowledge of what to expect. The first "loop" Kor is then defeated and Samos and young Jak is sent to the past without knowing Kor altered it.
In the second "loop", we have the common Jak and first "loop" Samos going into the future without preparation. First "loop" Samos has no knowledge of second "loop" future and is easily captured. Jak is unprepared and chaos ensues. Second "loop" Kor doesn't feel threatened by this Jak and didn't change the past as badly as his first "loop" counter-part. Jak manages to defeat Kor and second "loop" Samos and young Jak is sent to the past. Second "loop" Samos is now aware of the greater threat which increases the chance of creating the first "loop" rather than another second "loop".
I feel my theory also fixes the chicken and the egg problem. There are many things that could happen but they all would either being the first or second loop which would then complete itself. Maybe in the first timeline, Kor wasn't defeated and Samos fled to the past with young Jak. If Kor searched for young Jak, we get the second loop and if not, we get the first loop.
This confused me enough to make sense
I’d would be great to see the scenario in which JAK is fully trained before stepping into the rift to face KOR as a DLC spin off kinda a thing
Or at least a little short film of what could’ve been
Such a cool thought
I know this video is roughly 2-years old but I thought I'd bring it up. There I believe is a type of time travel that's not used that much in any media. And that is if someone (in this case we'll say Jak & Daxter) was sent to the future, but they still affect the time after they already left. As if they never left in the 1st place. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense (I can see why this version is barely used) but it's how I've thought of the whole Mar thing with Jak.
But yes I agree with what you said and also about the time loop.
JESUS CHRIST MY HEAD
Boom!
VTNVIVI That doesn't help LOL
Haha! Trust me, I was as confused as you are right now.
VTNVIVI loop is very simple so thanks
Would you kindly not use Christ's Name in vain? It's sinful and offensive. Thank you.
From what I gathered, Haven City is the future of The Precursor Legacy's (Jak 1) world. So in the beginning of Jak 2, they are sent to the future. However it turns out that Jak was actually originally from Haven City and sent back to the past, thus making the events of TPL take place in the past, and in the beginning of Jak 2 he was actually returned to his present.
As for whether Jak is the Mar, or just an ancestor by the name of Mar, it's not exactly made clear. Ashelin makes a comment along the lines of "Wait a minute, Jak is Mar? The Mar?" which would indicate that he is Mar, but then the series ended before they could do anything to confirm or deny that. I personally like to think he is the actual Mar of legend.
1. Correct
2. I will make a video talking about Mar, I purposely did not talk about him. All I'm going to say, I believe that Jak IS NOT Mar. There was a huge debate in the past.
VTNVIVI Mar story is very interesting. But I want to hear about it. Maybe jak could be the next person who become the next mar. so much questions... Like... Who jak mother? Will jak take his father place and become king? Why jak so good master every ego powers? We need jak 4! I really hope that one day that dream will become reality.
he wouldnt be going to his exact present cause little jak is there as a child, so is the time loop the exchange of old jak for little jal in each loop?
I know, so many interesting stuff to cover :D
Old Jak and Samos time travel to Haven City, where they have to go through the same thing over and over. So yes, young Jak is sent to Sandover, grows up and goes to Haven rinse and repeat.
I never saw it like this. Since time travel is (supposedly) pure fiction, there are several rules it can abide by. Time loops can work in different ways, and I prefer this: important events in history, events that are needed to make the future happen, MUST take place. Even if time travel is involved, and past is altered, those important events will happen anyway, maybe differently, but will still find a way to happen.
The way I saw it, is that metalheads invaded NORMALLY (no time travel), Haven City got built, young Jak was born, sent into the past to train, to then return. Kor SOMEHOW finds out about Onin's plan, and finds a way to get to the past, to stop the it. He ALMOST succeeds, but Jak uses the rift rider anyway. However, Jak then gets captured by Praxis, who was tipped off. That is where Kor succeeds. Jak is captured, and altered. Now, there is no adult Jak to fight Kor (with whatever superpowers the precursor stone offered), and young Jak is obviously too young to stop him also. HOWEVER, the IMPORTANT EVENT of YOUNG JAK AND SAMUS TRAVELING TO THE PAST, still happens. The events of Jak 1 happen after this time loop already happened, at least once. Also, I believe Kor stayed in the past, and got old by living the 300 years, waiting.
What is important to remember, however, is that the final product is not necessarily what was planned form the start. If you replay Jak 2 and 3 several times, you notice ideas and dialogues that hint at many other things, but lead nowhere. It should be obvious that Naughty Dog had grander plans for Jak and Daxter, and some of their ideas ended up scrapped. It is entirely possible that the plot of Jak II still has pieces of a previous draft of story from Naughty Dog's writers.
That was a lot of text, wasn't it?
Very interesting stuff you got there. The metal head war always happened, the invasion always happened anyway. Kor existed somewhere during the times of Sandover village, he was hiding we can say. The Kor we saw was simply from the future, trying to see if what Onin said was true. Kor was an ancient enemy to the precursors, so Kor starting everything from Sandover village is not necessarily true. He did send some metal heads, all that did is slightly alter the future in a way which wouldn't really ruin his plan. Let's just say he added more metal heads into the past, that's simply how I see it. The fact that he said ''you can't hide from me boy'' tells us that he was looking for someone, Jak. If Kor had stayed in the past, that means there would be two versions of him if we go with the idea that he existed 300 years ago, which he did if we go with the metal heads war. About what you said, the loop happening at least once, perhaps yes. The first loop happened without Kor looking into the past. For the second time, Onin predicts and Kor peaks into the past by also slightly changing the future.
you forgot in Daxter after the last boss fight he says my master will be waiting outside, and who was waiting out there with young jak at the start of jak 2 after you escape? Kor
for those who didn't understand, conclusion = 🍌
Banana
The fact that NaughtyDog messed with such a messy time travel loop is a testament to how good this story is. In my opinion.
Oh not often I hear this :O
@@VtnVivi The time loop has always been a favorite part of the game for me, it brought up so many questions as a kid when I first played.
The whole game is a time loop. It actually starts from Jak 2. He just goes to the "future" (which is Young Jak's present). The real Jak did continue through Jak 3 but Young Jak still went to the past to grow up to kill Kor.
As Daxter said "The more you think about it, the more it hurts the head."
I don’t know if anyone has ever mentioned it but I like how Jak used to look in the first game instead of the last two I think they should have kept him the same except clothing differences and I thought keeping him mute made him more unique and relatable!
Kor definitely does not have the power to create his own universes...
Create a universe as in altering the past and creating a new future.
Jak 2 reminds me of samurai jack
Oh!
Jak 2 reminds me of jack nicholson
All this time stuff actually makes sense. What's confusing is why Jak was pumped with dark eco. And why we never see a young Keira.
Anyway, after the time loop had happened multiple times, I think Kor bribed the Baron to immediately inject Jak with Dark Eco because Older Jak kept beating him using the Precursor Stone. He assumed that he would easily kill Jak and get the Stone. However, a few pea shooters from Sig , Krew, and Torn somehow stopped him lol
Yep time travel, my brain hurts. Onin played a part in this, telling Erol of Jak's special abilites.
We don't see young Keria because she was born in Sandover village, Jak was born in the future in the city and when he and young Samos get sent back Jak lives like a normal child and Samos meets someone and those two have a baby and that baby is Keira. So while Jak and Samos *do* belong in the future, Keira and Daxter are actually from the past
I'm a couple of years late on this, but I've been replaying the games recently, did some research and I'm pretty sure I get the time travel aspect of the game now. I'm also including excerpts from a Wiki on the matter.
From what I understand, Jak and the gang are in what we call a Causal Loop (not just a time loop). It's a loop in which a sequence of events is among the causes of another event, which is in turn among the causes of the first-mentioned event. So opening the Rift Portal in Jak 1 unleashed the Metal Heads in the world, which therefore caused the Second Metal Head War. But without the 2nd Metal Head War, Young Jak would have never been sent into the past, because he wouldn't have needed to grow up in order to fight Metal Kor. This phenomenon is also called predestination paradox, which means a time loop in which a time traveler who has gone into the past causes an event that ultimately causes the original future version of the person to go back into the past.
Simply put :
- 2nd Metal Head War leads to Jak being sent into the past
- Jak being sent into the past leads to 2nd Metal Head Wars
This is supposed to mess up your brain because the origins of Causal Loops are unknown. A similar example is given in Doctor Who, in which of a time-traveler who copies Beethoven's music from the future and publishes it in Beethoven's time in Beethoven's name. Maybe there is a timeline in which the 2nd Metal Head War happened without the Rift Rider and maybe there is a timeline in which Young Jak was sent into the past without the help of Older Jak, but we can't know for sure. Nonetheless, if this timeline happened, it disappears as soon as the Causal Loop is created. Because from now on, the Metal Heads invades earth following the opening of the Rift Rider and Young Jak is sent into the past with the help of Older Jak.
Go read on Causal Loops. It's super interesting.
Yep that's exactly how I'd NOW describe it :)
looking back on this jak himself could become the mar who founded haven city but he wouldn't be his ancestor,he could go back in time during the past at some point,and he could meet a young clan of warriors,maybe adopts them and they ironically could turn out to be actually be his biological ancestors,and they founded house of mar,after jak(mar)himself had vanished/die(in reality he could have returned back to the future near the end of jak 3)
Samos' family is weird. If Keira is his daughter, biologically speaking, it means she was born after young Samos was sent back to the past with Jak, which means if he was like 3 or 4, that she was about 11 or 12 in the events of TPL since Jak is 15, plus they must have been raised together so they were more like brother and sister ? And the mother is inexistant (are they any mothers in the games tho ?) :0
I always wonder about the mother.
No its simply that Keira and even Daxter were not born in the future. Young Samos grew into Old Samos back at what was Sandover village but the problem is we keep assuming they went back to Sandover Village when in reality they went a bit farther back in time until Sandover village was created and everybody was born and grew up.
I think the pre set coordinates were for Jaks birthday. Remember he's been in prison for 2 years when we first see young Jak, who has just started walking.
I like how Jak has an Uncle 300 years ago...
Very interesting explanation. Would you ever consider tackling the whole "Is Jak part of the Mar family, or THE Mar that built Haven City" theory? I've been going around the Internet and it seems a lot of people are confused about it. As much as I love Jak 3, it did give me a little trouble figuring that out due to some seemingly conflicting statements in game.
Ohhhh the whole ''Is Jak Mar'' thing? Absolutely ;) Yes, many are still confused.
It's great to see people still enjoy these games and still play them hopefully that will give naughty dog the idea to make the 4th one
I feel like ND has no more interest these days I don't know... they're much focused on more matured themed games.
So this is the way I see it. There are two timelines. Mar built Haven City. Damas is a descendant of Mar, and named Jak after Mar. Young Jak was threatened by Kor to find the tomb of Mar and get the last precursor stone, but Kor could not be defeated and Samos left with Jak via a rift gate into the past. Damas loses Jak. When Jak is 15, they rebuild the rift gate to go back to the present. Now that Jak is grown, he can face Kor. But impatience has made Kor go back in time for another Jak, thus creating multiple timelines. When Kor is defeated, it could be assumed that young Jak went back in time and found Damas. But since the present doesn't become altered, young Jak never reunited with his father, so we can assume that Jak is where he is now, in Haven, as a result of staying there with Samos. In the third game, Jak discovers his father is Damas and that he is of the house of Mar.
In this way, everything comes full circle, and the only thing that's really very iffy is where young Jak goes. If Kor is defeated, there's no reason for him to go back to Sandover where teen Jak was, unless he just grows up in that timeline. In that case, he'd be dead and Jak wouldn't exist in the present. So he has to go back to his own timeline he was pulled from so as not to disrupt the cycle. So there is an instance of present, past, and deep past time travel.
tells young jak goes to Sandover villiage with young Samos to start the events of precursor legacy,there aren't two Jaks,it's always the same one we know
Still have not finished Jak 1😆
I love Jak 1 for its simplistic platforming style!
Sooper Cooper not just that but even the fantastic presentation easily surpasses the sequels! But your reasons may somewhat match with why I prefer the 1st Ratchet & Clank game over the sequels on PS2.
sahmey
You should finish it! It is pretty easy compared to the sequels
It's super easy. Trust
Sandover Village = Old World
Haven City = New World
Aww... What about Kiera? How did she get born? Either way, she’s Jak’s errm... “Toy girl” of a girlfriend! 😂😂😂 Cuz when young Jak got sent back to the past with younger Samos, Keira didn’t get born yet? What? After the very end when young Jak and younger Samos git sent back in time they just magically forget that it all happened, young Samos got younger, met Kiera’s mum, Jak got raised by... Whoever Daxter parent’s are in the first level of Jak one?? 🤔🤔🤔
I too wonder about Keira's mom, like what happened to her?
VTNVIVI Yeah! ;) And again! Taking everything you said in this video and how Jak 2 ends, how the hell did she get born?! 😝😂 And what about the yellow sage from Jak 1? Where does he live?? Is his home the same as Gol and Mia’s? Does he live somewhere in Lava Tube? Or does he live somewhere in the swamp because of his accent? And how was everything retconned from for Jak Samos at the start of Jak 1 after everything in Jak 2?
There was a glitch in Jak 2 (PS2) where you could enter Sandover village. You had to go to scene selection > First scene > take out the disk > put it back in. I always though it was a cool "hack". Yeah the time travel always was confusing but thanks for attempting to clarify.
I've heard that glitch before :O. Glad you enjoyed the vid!
Jak 2 follows the Novac Self Consistency principle. You can’t change anything because it’s already happened. Jak simply used time travel to be able to occupy two spaces at once. His younger self was able to open the tomb and the last precursor egg while his older darker self was able to provide the child self the protection he needed.
Since kor is finaly defeated, he cant travel to the past anymore, hence the story continues
If anything I feel more confused...
Sowwy.
I think mar is jak and this whole kor insident is just some case of amnesia trick. Tpl never happenned the way it turned out the first time with knowledge they have now. So mar is jakjust more successful and labeled as a legend. And then jak goes goes off in all these other adventures. But still doesn't change the fact that nobody at least recognizes jak when he sent kid jak back back into the past. Plus little jak didnt even have daxter. So how the hell am i suppose to believe that its a loop? They never immediately changed the events that happen in the game as soon as kidjak is sent back to the past and no daxter and milo and sol or whatever the fuk their names were are now dead, or so we thought. Now that i think about it, that might've been "The Great War" everybody is talking about in the game. I mean with the dark eco sages milo and korra(the sexy one) i think her name was, probably survived the whole dark eco silo thing and unleashed it upon the world like what, 10 years after there supposed deaths. Now a much more experienced jak in past has to fight dark eco creatures probably called metal heads. Sol and idk-her-name are probably eco monstrosities themselves. But Jak saves the day sort of and start on or continue the plans for a city. This is just my hypothesis of what happens in the timeline so its a possibility. It is just a shit stain of a mess to peice together. The studio clearly didnt think this series through and it is brain numbingly hard to explain! Jesus Allah to my buddah i need a break from this Shit! Whoo! I really wished they would keep to their core routes and make a more kid friendly sequel, not all this edgy stuff they came with back then. But i understand why the current devs or whatever had to leave this franchise behind and focus on more other important projects, one of them being uncharted.
Thank you for sharing!
daxter was born in the past remember? not the future,so young jak would have likely always met daxter,in sandover village.
Why do people get headaches and not understand timetravil? Its not so hard to understand.... only hard thing is explaining it to others..
It's hard.
Sand over village is haven city in the future and maybe there are metal heads because kor looked through the past and all the metal heads went through? Idk this is my theory
Something like that yes! I didn't talk about Mar, but perhaps Kor was looking for Mar through time. By doing so, the metal heads destroyed Sandover. Mar hid in a timeline where he founded Haven City. I will dive deeper into this :)
When the rift gate got opened, the metal heads destroyed sandover village
It's not a time loop, from what I remember it's all Novikov, no new timelines made, Jak get's sent to the past, grows up, goes to the future, defeats yer mano, sends himself back and carries on. The term timeloop kinda implies a never ending cycle....
been waiting for a vid like this for a while glad to see a break down of it :D
Glad you enjoyed!
These videos are really cool! You are also close on getting 10 thousand subscribers! I would love to see more theories on Jak and daxter or sly cooper. I remember getting Jak and daxter when it first came out and I never finished the first game but I have beat 2 and 3.It would also be interesting if you played through Jak and daxter or something like that. And I would like to se a theory on the mar or something to do with the mar because it always interested me. Hope you get 10 thousand soon and keep making videos :D
And after watching this video I know more about the story xD I never new much about it but thanks
Glad you enjoyed and thanks a lot for the support! I will definitely talk about Mar and even the Precursors eventually, pretty interesting stuff! As for let's plays, that is currently not my focus :/
What I can't understand is : The precursor statue in Mar's tomb said that "eons ago" they fought with Hora-Quan (Metalheads) and lost the battle.
What I can't understand is when did they fight if precursor have been disappeared before Jak 1 events and there aren't metal heads in Jak 1?
The battle with Hora-Quan could've happened elsewhere in the universe at that point no?
Soo... jak has to kill kor over and over again?
Yep time loop!
Every video i see with time travel in it, ALWAYS destroys my brain!😨
I know the feeling :P
So Jak 2 is a time loop? Jak will infinitely send his younger self to the past?
Exactly.
Another thing to add to "Destiny" is that it was Keira who built the time vehicle in the first place, for her past self to discover with Jak, and then in Haven, over the course of roughly 2 and a half years, assemble it back together from her memory/recollection of it. Same thing with all of Mar's creations in Jak 3 for Jak to explore and discover.
The whole concept isn't entirely new, Back To The Future set the standard for having a sequence of events always play out and to NEVER disturb those sequences, or else you'd just fade from existence or the fabric of time would rip open and all existence would cease.
jak send his himself in the past, alright, that's the loops.
But who did send jak on the first loop ?
Imo mar has to do something in the first loop
Hmm....Time travel hurts my brain.
I think the first thing you said was wrong. Samos said "so this is how it happened" not referring to him going to the past. He was completely aware of how that happened. He was talking about how they traveled to the future. That is what he didn't know because he hadn't lived it yet.
You're also giving Korr too much credit. He wasn't a timeless being. He just knew of Jak's origin. He fully intended on using young Jak, Mar, to open the stone. That's why he was pissed when young Jak couldn't do the test because he was too young.
You're overthinking this way too much. Jak and friends opened the rift the first time. The other end was just a metal head base. That's probably how Korr found out about everything anyway. Remember it was years later that Korr ended up with Mar. He probably could tell through Samos being alive but older in the past, and Onin's stories, that Mar and Jak were the same person. He struck a deal with Vegar(I think that's his name) to get Mar from Damos because Praxis took Jak.
The reason they didn't end up at the metal head base was because they all got flung out at different points and never made it to the other side of the rift.
You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be.
The thing I don’t understand is once they were in the past and Kor was still not at the planet, why did they open the rift gate? The rift gate is how Kor found the planet in the first place
Did Samos not know Kor would pop out through it? I guess not
Also there are two Samoses, which means young Samos was also born in haven. Yet there’s only one Keira.. so Keira was born in Sandover Village?
I watched your video, and I think you may have overthought this a bit. Let me give you an alternative theory. We are working on the assumption that the Kor that came through the rift gate was coming BACK from Haven City. What if, instead he were coming from the future. Remember in Jak 3, the Precursors mention that they had been at war with the Hora-quan (Metal Heads) for centuries, always being equally matched. What if, instead of Kor coming from the future, he came from the past, hoping to find a world where the Precursors were no more. He hoped that he could let time work it's magic and find that the Precursors were already gone and he could easily take over the world. He comes through the rift and notices Jak freaking out in the rift. When Jak goes through the rift he is amused because he realizes that he will be still be around at whatever point in time Jak came to in and could kill him there. Kor then proceeds to take over the world with ease. He then has an iron clad grip on the world for hundreds of years until Mar comes around. He was able to unite the people to the point where they had a fighting chance against him. Kor engages humanity again, but finds himself in an endless stalemate. Remember Baron Praxis' words that he had been involved in at least one other war with the Metal Heads before. Kor realizes that Praxis is no match, but learns through his mole in Praxis' forces, Kaeden, that there is a band of underground fighters who, through the help of Onin, are looking for the heir to the throne of Mar. Kor realizes that the heir would be capable of destroying him. He infiltrates the Underground as an old man where he finds the boy. He immediately recognizes the Seal of the House of Mar and knows that he is the heir. He learns through Onin, now an ally of his, that the boy it is the boy's destiny to find the last remaining Precursor egg and use it's power to destroy the Metal Heads. He believes that he can use the power of the last Precursor egg to become even stronger and finally end this stalemate with the humans. What he didn't plan on though, was that the rift rider he ignored several hundred years earlier would arrive at that exact point in time and Jak would rise up the ranks of Underground to the point of becoming an actual threat to him. He also learns from Onin that Jak is the heir to the house of Mar. He then puts two and two together and realizes that the kid was sent back in time to protect him from Kor, but doesn't know the exact details of how it happened. He allows Jak to continue to assist in finding the Precursor egg believing that he can still easily take care of him when the time comes. However, Jak proves to be too much for Kor and Kor dies in their final battle. The kid is then sent back in time, creating the time loop, so that he might come back and do what he did as an adult.
Either that, or Naughty Dog really didn't think their time travel through very well.
Thanks for sharing all that, enjoyed reading! And yes, ND and their time travel, they really nailed that one...
So would there be 2 hearts of mar in haven city and 2 precursor artifacts during Jak 2? I mean I doubt they were destroyed in that crash. Meaning there’s only 1 of them each during Jak 3 and Jak X.
Meaning Jak could possibly go back in time again, right? He could become Mar
But in Jak 3 Deimos says to find his son Mar who is young Jak
And? What point are you trying to make? That Jak is not Mar?
Its funny but Everytime I go back and replay the 3 games I imagine Im just playing through another time loop and everytime I beat jak 2 Im setting the stage for yet eventually another playthrough! :D
Heheh :P
I honestly didn't like where the series went after the first game.... Was the 2000s just the decade where it was the hip new trend for cartoon characters to be edgy?
ND took the risk and it worked out! I honestly completely separate Jak 1 from 2 & 3.
I guess I just wish they stuck with a lighthearted approach much like Crash Bandicoot.
Y’all ever just think the writers didn’t think that far and there’s a big hole in their story lmaooo but all these theories are good in the comments years and years later this game will never die
They fucked up the storytelling after jack daxter 1. Sometimes games should not have sequels
I still got this game. I like it when young jak goes to the past. And old jak stays
So youre implying that Old Jak originally lost to Kor and thats why his young self was sent back?? Then he broke the loop by finally defeating Kor?
Young Jak was always sent to the past, part of a continuous timeloop. Jak doesn't really ''break'' the loop, he just moves away from it and continues his adventures in 3 and X. As for his young self, he grows up moves to the future and rinse repeat.
VTNVIVI OK THERE WE GO NOW THAT MAKES SENSE. It confusing where people said he breaks the loop. Well of course he breaks the loop because he lives on lol. Jak 1 and 2 repeat over and over. And as for your Kor theory. I see as this
There are 2 Kors
1 that exists in the past already(precursor legacy) hes just not relevant yet or he just doesnt exist yet and arrive around Mars time
And there is the Kor they fight in the future. He is the one that shows up in the rift gate. When the jak and gang go through the rift gate Kor just chases them back to the future. But that Kor already came from the future he just wanted to see Onin's prediction as he was already Young Jaks mentor i presume(thats why he says "you cannot hide from me boy"). The reason why Kor doesnt stay in the past when he peaked through the rift is because that wouldnt make sense as thatd mean he'd just live through the same events over and over. And thered basically be only 2 Kors living at the same time which wouldnt make the storyline because Kor would just keep running into himself or he'd live through the same events over and over The reason why the rift gate was in his nest was because he used it to go peak into the past initially. When Onin told him the prediction he put the rift gate there. Its impossible for Kor to have stayed in the past and attack Sandover. As for his metal heads thats a different story. They might have.
Jak and Daxter killed Metal Kor so he isn't immortal also they mounted his head on the wall at Daxter's bar
What I meant is ageless, as in he doesn't age until a certain point. Yeah immortal wouldn't work here.
So I wonder what it would it be like if jake and team never open the rift gate what the future world end up like in a alternate scenario timeline
funny I guess this sequel would pretty much be like the sequel many would have Been expecting the second game would be like you know staying with fantasy environment of the first game with more tech
I wish naughty dog made a what if scenario of this of the rift gate never was opened just saying because that really would make the future from Jak 2 drastically different.
The thing is Jak is Mar and their is a lot of talk about Mar and how he built so many things such as the precursor catacombs etc. Which means he goes back in time to build all of these things and dies shortly after which could explain why his armor was found there orrrr he could have just left it knowing that one day he will come across it again? So I never played the Jak games that much maybe beating the a total of 3-4 times each I was more of a Ratchet and Clank guy back then so i don't know all the great things mar did and im so confused so it would be cool if you made a video about how the whole mar thing works ill really appreciate it btw new subscriber love your vids
The great mystery of Mar, is Jak Mar? I don't think so. I purposely did not talk about him in this video, he's a whole complete different subject. Yes I will talk about it eventually :) Thanks for the support!
mtn Dewd yeah very interesting things about the mar. I would like to see a Theory on it. It would be very likely that Jak is the mar because he is the hero back then and now.
VTNVIVI I don't know if you remember but i do because i just played Jak 3 not too long ago but i remember Damos, Jak's father, said find my son Mar before he died and in the end the crew is surprised when the precursors referred to Jak as Mar and also saying he has a lot of things to do so Im sure Jak is Mar the thing is Jak doesn't seem to be the type of person to build and do all of these things and just the whole true purpose of jak just makes it even more confusing
TheyGotHype Jak was named Mar by his father Damos because Mar is Jak’s grandfather. That’s what I think.
+Jaun Figueroa Mar was said to have existed years like 300 years before damas was born
Who was the green sage before Jak and Samos went to the past the first time? And what happened to him?
Hmm....I always stick to one time loop, where Samos leaves the life seed for his younger self in the future, rinse and repeat.
@@VtnVivi I actually made a full video on samos's story in chronological order,I haven't uploaded it yet,but I will eventually.
It's interesting if Jak is Mar, because it would mean that he'd spend his later years in life, still in the past, setting up relics foundations and devices that he'd know would be broken by his younger self, or put through turmoil and peril. It's like making something you know will be destroyed.
That picture of the time loop would be kinda confusing to someone who doesn't understand the timeline. It appears that you have 2 possible timelines, one where everything CONSTANTLY repeats, and one where it branches off to Jak 3. i would use a spiral, starting where Jak is born in Haven, sent to the past, grows up, sent to the future, defeats Kor, sends young self to the past, THEN branches off.
Yeah my representation is probably not the best heheh. All I see is a constant loop with a part branching off like you said.
Meh, still a great video to help explain the confusing nature of time travel to people who are un-aware of the Jak timeline, unlike us pros *Fistbumb*
Jak is mar. After jak 3 I do believe jak grew up into the mar we know. He must of went further back into the past before jak 1, and set everything up. Knowing it was all going to be discovered in his younger self journey.
Jak 3 and 4: Keira is pointless. Ashelin gang!
You mean Jak 3 and Jak X Combat Racing.
🎶Gotta get back back to the past Samurai Jack watch out Gotta get back back to the past Samurai Jack Jack Jack Jack 🎶 oh wait wrong😉 series.
Dat season 5 doe!
What if the essence of the precursor stone is inside Jak that's why the kor we saw came out of the rift saying "you can't hide from me boy" maybe when when young Jak touched the stone some of it's energy went in him which is why Jak can channel so much Eco without any harmful side effects well sort of. That's my explanation.
Cor did not change the past. He was part of time loop Jak open the gate Car came to the past metal head war happened a hero named Mar saved the people and created haven city! Mar maybe a older version of Jak because we know Jak,s real name is Mar? This would of happened after the third game
I see Kor’s first appearance through the Rift Gate as being the true origin point of the time loop. From what we know, the Metal Heads wiped out Precursor civilization and moved on, likely losing access to the Rift Gate on Jak’s planet. After Jak activates the Rift Gate in Jak II, Kor finally regains access to Jak’s world and creates the future we see in Jak II.
My theory is that the original timeline before Jak activates the Rift Gate for the first time is that Jak is actually just a boy born in the past to unknown parents and the Explorer actually is his uncle. After the events of the Precursor Legacy and the activation of the Rift Gate he creates a new timeline where Jak is a boy named Mar born in the future who goes back in time to become the Jak we see in The Precursor Legacy and then that “uncle” turns into an adopted uncle instead. So Jak was simultaneously born in Sandover Village AND Haven City. He’s just an anomaly in the time-stream in my eyes.
Or maybe Naughty Dog had some oversights because time travel storylines are really difficult to write in a way that avoids all plot-holes… lol
Jak 3 Spoiler/s:
Here's something for you to think about. I recently watched a theory about Jak time traveling and being The Mar, or not.
When we get to the ending of Jak 3, you see him supposedly leave with the Precursors and walk right back up behind Daxter and Tess. What's to say, Jak didn't time travel to the earlier years before creating Haven City, and the Catacombs while using the name Mar. He ends up meeting a woman that catches his eye and heart, and he provides the offspring that would lead to Damas being born, and he then names his son(Jak) Mar, after him(Jak's self). The reason child Jak/Mar gets sent back could either be, the success of Jak 2, or the failure of Kor getting child Jak into the Trials for the Precursor Stone and sends him back in time. Plenty of potential paradoxes. lmao
Jak 3 is my favorite
It's many's favorite.
Two questions: WHY again did Jak bring the precursor stone into Kor's cave? Second, why did Kor have an ACTIVE rift gate waiting for Jak? Yes, I get that Onin knew Jak would defeat him, whereas Kor did not know that. So, I get that Jak and crew would need to send their younger selves into the past. But, why did KOR have it on? Maybe to lure Keira, Bruder, Jak and Samos into his planned ambush? Just trying to make sense.
Who else came here just to see if he is correct? 😅😅
Me.
The future where shoes still don't exist.
Why didn't kor kill young jak he could have won
I know this video is 4 years old but I'm still confused. How is the time machine that Keira rebuilds in Jak 2 the same exact one they find in Jak 1? She based it off of the one they found. She questions it herself and Daxter makes a joke but we never really get an answer. Also the only way Jak can logically send himself to the past is if young Jak grows up in Haven City, discovers a way to time travel, then travels to when he's a kid, then sends himself and Samos to the past. Because the loop has to start somehow. How does young Jak get sent to the past the first time? A future version of himself couldn't have grown up in the past because he hasn't been sent to the past to yet. I honestly have no idea what I'm saying lol
More on Jak and Daxter: in the scene in Jak II when Jak and Daxter are eavesdropping on the Baron's conversation with Errol, Errol says something about a spy... what spy? This never comes to light again. I don't THINK he was talking about Kor... perhaps it was Krew? Idk. But a spy never seemed to be a plot point except where Errol mentioned that one existed.
Nicholas Kreutzer I'm never really think about that...
Nicholas Kreutzer probably the barrons daughter
Maybe just a simple spy, probably doesn't really affect the plot that much but who knows.
the spy was Praxis daughter
Jak To The Future
LOL
LOLLLLLLLLLLL
VTNVIVI the crossover we never knew we wanted
.........What
Confusing right ;)
I'd say the precursors couldn't defeat kor so they threw him into a rift gate and locked him in there along with the other metalheads. when Jak and everyone open the rift gate, they release Kor and everyone else gets shot through time to the future. Kor the uses Baron Praxis to remove Mar's bloodline from rule and capture young Jak as a way of keeping a pure Jak (descendant of mar) while getting the older Jak to do his bidding and get the last precursor egg.
I think that get so much.
Theres still a chance Jak 4 could be a thing! Usually, when game developers arent done with a franchise, they usually make a "Definitive Edition" or "HD Collection. And the Jak and Daxter trilogy is being remastered for PS4! this is just a theory though, DONT GIVE UP!
Well, we are getting emulated versions of the PS2 titles onto the PS4. Another remaster doesn't look like it for now.
How does this explain Kiera’s existence is she actually Samos daughter or adopted like jak , plus didn’t jak have an uncle in jak 1 ?
I think Jak 4 at this point should just be a game where Samos or pecker or maybe even Daxter basically just narrate an answer all the Q and A's fans of had
Wasn't it said somewhere that Kor and his army have chased Mar through time and space to get the last Precursor egg?
This honestly don't confuse me khor came from the past but at some point went to the futer (I butchered that I know) and found sand over village and changed the past at this point the cycle has already started.
Your little loop diagram is always how I thought it worked too. Jak was always going to be from the future, young and old Jak are always supposed to switch places.
I hate time travel as a plot device, so the story is a little less good for me now. Also the whole “Jak is Mar thing” in Jak 3 is confusing as well.
I think you're just smoked out.
Lol good explanation and good video.
How could mar build haven city if he was born there when demos was the ruler of haven city?
Could it be possible for the loop to be broken?