Everyone here thinking Vinnie is overplaying: 1) The original version of "Raju" has drumming just as frantic and full on, provided by Ranjit Barot. The only difference is that the original is slower. Note that in any live version of this song from this tour, John McLaughlin calls the tempo. 2) Level wise, you're judging Vinnie's entire performances on this tour from one clip of one song recorded on a phone from one concert. For all I know, not having been at this gig myself, the mix might have been fine before being recorded by a lame phone microphone. Even if the mix was out, it's the soundman's responsibility to fix that. If this was small club, then yes it's down to the loudest culprit (most likely the drummer) to take the matter in his or her hands to resolve the problem. But this is a concert hall, with a soundman. 3) Going back to "overplaying", listen to 'The Disguise' from this tour. 4) Brian Blade is an incredible musician, but he's not a fusion drummer, and whilst this is not entirely a fusion gig, this is definitely a fusion tune. Brian is ideal for the more straight jazz pieces like 'Dr Jackyl' and Chick's 'Hymn To Andromeda', but for me his style didn't quite sit right for the aggression of McLaughlin's pieces. 5) This one is the most important. Chick Corea, John McLaughlin, Christian McBride and Kenny Garrett CHOSE to work with Vinnie. If any of them didn't want to play with him, they would not have embarked on this project. As far as I'm concerned, if he's good enough for them, he's too good for any of us.
overplaying is what you get when the finest decide to play. there are fans in the audience for each particular musician, they all produce what they feel to be an appropriate amount of attack to suit the hungry fans, no musician in particular should be critisized amongst these giants.
I think the points about overplaying are well made. If you are drummer, you can't help but admire Vinnie. But if you have ever seen him play, and I have several times, you know he can sometimes overplay. That is what makes him special. He's one of the few guys that constantly test themselves against the limits. I would add that I saw Brian Blade playing with the Five Peace band and he was as good, if not better, than Vinnie.
This is great man. With all due respect, to all these great cats out there, about 'Technically skilled but too loud ' it's kinda true man, I've listened/seen to some amazingly technical & grooving drummers, who just seemed to be playing a little too loud for both the ensemble in question and the actual venue. In fact, Tony Williams himself could get a bit too loud at times. Same thing about Herb Graham, Jr. from LA based B Sharp Jazz Quartet.
when you're on the highway doing 90MPH with everyone else the same, it looks like everyone's just cruisin' along nicely. just don't pay too close an attention to the stationary objects. they're not going anywhere anyways ;) heck, Mahavishnu left overplaying back at the gate, when Vinnie wasn't even a fetus.... it's all good :) this is an all out jam fest. and it looks like they're ALL having fun.. my mantra about musicians: Stop making a contest out of it.
Your response means a couple of things: 1.) You arrogantly claim that I am not a good listener simply because I disagree with your assessment of Vinnie's playing 2.) Every opinion of a player is a judgment, good or bad. I made no comment about Vinnie lacking when it comes to technique or technicality. I didn't say he's a bad drummer. He has a certain style, just like every musician does, and that style is compatible with some band and not compatible with others.
indaplace2b-Your comments reek of a straight ahead player confused by fusion. You obviously dig KG, who doesn't normally play really aggressive fusion. (He truly is a great!) Here VC is contouring his ideas w/McBride primarily: a standard fusion rhythm section construct. In straight ahead, the bass is usually hammering 8ths or qtrs, so the drummer has more room to respond to the soloist. They are playing appropriate to the genre. And Kenny is on top, and is telling his story with them.
@ArtVandalay666 If you are saying that Vinnie plays really loud and that's his style it means a couple of things: 1st you are not a really good listener 2nd you are judging a top musician 3rd Corea and McLaughlin called him to go on tour and for the CD, maybe they like Vinnie's playing, don't think?? What better judge then them?!?!?
I like Vinnie's playing; I have the live album with him on it and I spin it constantly. I just think Brian Blade is a much more musical drummer. Vinnie plays really loud and show-offy and that's cool, that's what he does that's his style. I'm just questioning if that style is the right fit for this band, especially after hearing Blade's treatment of the tunes.
Man, you played with no one and log on YT to comment on one of the best percussionist of the last century? Maybe you know better than John, Chick, Kenny and Chris? Go shed and be humble. I don´t get modern art ´cause I know shit about it, but I don´t about it for that very reason. Ring any bells? Cheers.
indaplace2b-My remarks about Elvin and Trane are silly? How? YOU said VC is too loud. So are you saying Kenny isn't playing loud enough here? Garrett is mic'd with a monitor! How do you know what it sounds like on stage? As a performer, you HAVE to recognize that stage sound and out front are two different things! Look for mic placement on those Coltrane vids: often near JC, not Elvin. YOU said there's no room to "construct". Are you saying that Kenny didn't "construct" his solo here?
The drums are overpowering cause Vinnie just plays too loudly all the time. Check out the vids of the Five Peace Band with Brian Blade on drums; that's how these tunes were meant to sound
Nope! Brian blade is a fine drummer, but this is not his style of music. This is Vinny's genre. I've listened to them with Brian blade, honestly, no comparison. Brian blade was out of place and did not give the music enough energy. Keep in mind that this recording is through a cell phone most likely, that's why the drums sound so loud.
Overplaying? This is freaking Corea and Mcglaughlin! This ain't smooth jazz! Overplaying is context specific. Vinnie's playing here is absolutely appropriate. In this context, he is perfect. How correct would it be if he just laid down a backbeat, and kept the pocket solid? That's not what this is about. It is about group communication at the highest level of ability. And sometimes that means chops. Big ears, big chops.
@aaaaaa86 3.) Of course they hired him because they like him, but that has no bearing whatsoever on my opinion of his playing. I have every right to disagree with their opinion of his playing just like they have every right to not pay one iota of attention to me for doing so.
I didn't think you could overplay during jazz fusion sessions. in my experience in a jam its all about the moment and if the group feels that someone is going beyond what is required the players will imply it to the musician going over. Honestly I don't see any or hear any hints for VC to pull back at all in this piece. Now I know that to each their own, but like the previous commenter posted, this ain't smooth jazz. At this level of play its entirely possible to miss the player's point.
Everyone here thinking Vinnie is overplaying:
1) The original version of "Raju" has drumming just as frantic and full on, provided by Ranjit Barot. The only difference is that the original is slower. Note that in any live version of this song from this tour, John McLaughlin calls the tempo.
2) Level wise, you're judging Vinnie's entire performances on this tour from one clip of one song recorded on a phone from one concert. For all I know, not having been at this gig myself, the mix might have been fine before being recorded by a lame phone microphone. Even if the mix was out, it's the soundman's responsibility to fix that. If this was small club, then yes it's down to the loudest culprit (most likely the drummer) to take the matter in his or her hands to resolve the problem. But this is a concert hall, with a soundman.
3) Going back to "overplaying", listen to 'The Disguise' from this tour.
4) Brian Blade is an incredible musician, but he's not a fusion drummer, and whilst this is not entirely a fusion gig, this is definitely a fusion tune. Brian is ideal for the more straight jazz pieces like 'Dr Jackyl' and Chick's 'Hymn To Andromeda', but for me his style didn't quite sit right for the aggression of McLaughlin's pieces.
5) This one is the most important. Chick Corea, John McLaughlin, Christian McBride and Kenny Garrett CHOSE to work with Vinnie. If any of them didn't want to play with him, they would not have embarked on this project. As far as I'm concerned, if he's good enough for them, he's too good for any of us.
Loved the Five Peace Band....wish I could have seen them live. Thanks for posting.
I wish I'd be there ! Great musicians, great live performance !
So much awesomenes in this, one of the best fusions played right here.
holy shit... wonderful
Гениально!!!!!! Raju!!!!!!!
Kenny - my MAN!!!!!!!!!!!
it,s a madness.........,but i like it!!!!!
overplaying is what you get when the finest decide to play. there are fans in the audience for each particular musician, they all produce what they feel to be an appropriate amount of attack to suit the hungry fans, no musician in particular should be critisized amongst these giants.
I think the points about overplaying are well made. If you are drummer, you can't help but admire Vinnie. But if you have ever seen him play, and I have several times, you know he can sometimes overplay. That is what makes him special. He's one of the few guys that constantly test themselves against the limits. I would add that I saw Brian Blade playing with the Five Peace band and he was as good, if not better, than Vinnie.
I love how John comps for other musicians
This is great man. With all due respect, to all these great cats out there, about 'Technically skilled but too loud ' it's kinda true man, I've listened/seen to some amazingly technical & grooving drummers, who just seemed to be playing a little too loud for both the ensemble in question and the actual venue. In fact, Tony Williams himself could get a bit too loud at times. Same thing about Herb Graham, Jr. from LA based B Sharp Jazz Quartet.
when you're on the highway doing 90MPH with everyone else the same, it looks like everyone's just cruisin' along nicely.
just don't pay too close an attention to the stationary objects. they're not going anywhere anyways ;)
heck, Mahavishnu left overplaying back at the gate, when Vinnie wasn't even a fetus....
it's all good :)
this is an all out jam fest. and it looks like they're ALL having fun..
my mantra about musicians:
Stop making a contest out of it.
mamma mia!
Whoa whoa kennyyyyyyyyyy
Well, I see what you mean, he did go a little overboard in this one, but hey, as always, vinnie makes it sound at ease with the atmosphere they want.
Raju!
Your response means a couple of things:
1.) You arrogantly claim that I am not a good listener simply because I disagree with your assessment of Vinnie's playing
2.) Every opinion of a player is a judgment, good or bad. I made no comment about Vinnie lacking when it comes to technique or technicality. I didn't say he's a bad drummer. He has a certain style, just like every musician does, and that style is compatible with some band and not compatible with others.
five peace or piece?
indaplace2b-Your comments reek of a straight ahead player confused by fusion. You obviously dig KG, who doesn't normally play really aggressive fusion. (He truly is a great!) Here VC is contouring his ideas w/McBride primarily: a standard fusion rhythm section construct. In straight ahead, the bass is usually hammering 8ths or qtrs, so the drummer has more room to respond to the soloist. They are playing appropriate to the genre. And Kenny is on top, and is telling his story with them.
@ArtVandalay666
If you are saying that Vinnie plays really loud and that's his style it means a couple of things:
1st you are not a really good listener
2nd you are judging a top musician
3rd Corea and McLaughlin called him to go on tour and for the CD, maybe they like Vinnie's playing, don't think??
What better judge then them?!?!?
Love JM but don't know this, pardon me but what is the name of this tune?
wow, wish I had been there. That is bitching.
roma dove?
auditorium???
I like Vinnie's playing; I have the live album with him on it and I spin it constantly. I just think Brian Blade is a much more musical drummer. Vinnie plays really loud and show-offy and that's cool, that's what he does that's his style. I'm just questioning if that style is the right fit for this band, especially after hearing Blade's treatment of the tunes.
Man, you played with no one and log on YT to comment on one of the best percussionist of the last century? Maybe you know better than John, Chick, Kenny and Chris? Go shed and be humble. I don´t get modern art ´cause I know shit about it, but I don´t about it for that very reason. Ring any bells? Cheers.
Even if Vinnie is overplaying, it's still a lot more enjoyable than Weckl.
Is it just my impression , or is JM playing in-line, w/o stage amps?
indaplace2b-My remarks about Elvin and Trane are silly? How? YOU said VC is too loud. So are you saying Kenny isn't playing loud enough here? Garrett is mic'd with a monitor! How do you know what it sounds like on stage? As a performer, you HAVE to recognize that stage sound and out front are two different things! Look for mic placement on those Coltrane vids: often near JC, not Elvin. YOU said there's no room to "construct". Are you saying that Kenny didn't "construct" his solo here?
The drums are overpowering cause Vinnie just plays too loudly all the time. Check out the vids of the Five Peace Band with Brian Blade on drums; that's how these tunes were meant to sound
Nope! Brian blade is a fine drummer, but this is not his style of music. This is Vinny's genre. I've listened to them with Brian blade, honestly, no comparison. Brian blade was out of place and did not give the music enough energy. Keep in mind that this recording is through a cell phone most likely, that's why the drums sound so loud.
Overplaying? This is freaking Corea and Mcglaughlin! This ain't smooth jazz! Overplaying is context specific. Vinnie's playing here is absolutely appropriate. In this context, he is perfect. How correct would it be if he just laid down a backbeat, and kept the pocket solid? That's not what this is about. It is about group communication at the highest level of ability. And sometimes that means chops. Big ears, big chops.
Exactly! Thank you!
He also inspires the soloists to kick EXTRA ass, if that is even possible...
@aaaaaa86 3.) Of course they hired him because they like him, but that has no bearing whatsoever on my opinion of his playing. I have every right to disagree with their opinion of his playing just like they have every right to not pay one iota of attention to me for doing so.
I didn't think you could overplay during jazz fusion sessions. in my experience in a jam its all about the moment and if the group feels that someone is going beyond what is required the players will imply it to the musician going over.
Honestly I don't see any or hear any hints for VC to pull back at all in this piece. Now I know that to each their own, but like the previous commenter posted, this ain't smooth jazz.
At this level of play its entirely possible to miss the player's point.
non Parco della musica
@samboadie
th-cam.com/video/BP5vtlPDva0/w-d-xo.html
well, everyone has their opinion. My opinion is that he is overplaying as for the other comment, I don't believe that statement.
vinnie overplaying.. can you do that? nah i don't think so.
I love Vinnie, but he is overplaying.