Rules for the Drown-Out Drinking Game:- Drink every time the term "social justice" is used. Drink every time Gabe repeats something in a sing-song voice. Drink every time Yahtzee replies with a "Mmm". Down your entire drink if they start bickering and get close to having a fist (well, slap) fight. Feel free to add your own rules, of course =)
Drink everytime Gabriel waffles and drink again when Yahtzee calls him out on it. Drink whenever Yahtzee genuinely laughs. Drink when Gabriel cries laughing.
Gabe, there were actual teachers fired for being associated with (legal) prostitution and/or pornography. I'm with Yahtzee on this. Not likely to happen, not at all, but more possible then a zombie invasion and we don't answer "What would you do in case of a zombie invasion?" questions with "What do you actually know about the science behind being a zombie?".
***** It's not actually a law. The school just wanted to fire those people without legal reasons, but they can because it's their school and they care for their appearance. The same can happen in any country.
A bloke at a high school near to where I live had to leave his job, didn't get sacked, but was basically forced out of his job, because certain students found out that for a brief time he was one of those webcam porn-star types. Now correct me if I'm wrong, there's nothing illegal about being in that type of job, and yet because people found out about it, he had to leave his teaching job. I'm sorry Gabe, but I'm with Yahtzee on this one. Just because it might not be illegal, doesn't mean it can't jeopardise your career. Things you say, or even do, on the internet can absolutely bite you in the arse.
Different context, and the guy wasn't fired, he "had to leave". What does that mean, where do you live, what is the policy? It's not as easy as just saying "You could get fired for that thing", there has to be legitimate reasons behind the firing. That's not the case in the US in some states where they can fire you for no reason, but not in most of the world. If this bloke was constructively dismissed, he has grounds to sue. And while Yahtzee was right, Gabe was right in arguing that he spoke from a place of no experience, and that the chances were extremely remote and very actionable if they did happen.
This is doubley true and has been accepted as gospel for 20 years for any Artists or Writers especially who are seeking employment in general "E for everyone" entertainment fields. Sometimes aliases aren't even enough if you ever created and uploaded works of porn even a decade ago, and your "style" is obvious enough. Though in cases with certain M+ videogame studios, or japan in general, it could actually improve on your resume so it's not always a death knell. There's definitely something to be said about artists who have a lot of experience with Anatomy and physical character interaction. ....but I can't think of a single case for teaching where "hookers & blow" would give anyone a leg up :\
Well. Schools need students, students have parents, and while stuff might not be illegal, parents can pull their kids out of certain school because they don't want their kid taught by a person who is this and that, or does this and that. And while bigger school have the pull and budget to go "lol u can fuk off then m8" most smaller ones don't, and will eventually get rid of the offending teacher in one way or another. As far as I recall though, Gabriel wants to teach what he calls feral children, and I'm assuming the parents are pretty much out of the picture in that context, so this might not be that much of a problem for him.
Well here's a comment 4 years late. Saying stuff on the internet absolutely can bite you in the ass, sometimes not even anything major, I was pulled into a meeting with HR recently over a comment I made online regarding the promotion of alcohol (work in a large supermarket chain who don't seem to like that), it wasn't even a bad comment, just insinuated were selling alot of alcohol after someone on FB said people don't want specials on beer. Ended up with a written warning over that, so yeah comments online can absolutely bite you
"It's legal to have sex with one of my students provided their over sixteen" Yah, while that may be legal it would still get a teacher fired because it is considered to be an abuse of power
It's not anger, it's turmoil. Anger is energy that leads to emotionally fueled decisions. Turmoil is thinking through a reasonable conversation with someone else of equal intellect and equal stubbornness. He's raising his voice because Yahtzee is being loud. Gabe isn't belittling Yahtzee where as Yahtzee is taking it personally and is belittling Gabe.
Yhatzee calls this little sideshow tedious and uninteresting, but I'm never more productive than when I put it on as background noise. To date, since the start of this series, I've learned how to play the guitar, knitted my own pair of long-johns, sculpted a marble replica of my cat, finished "War and Peace," rebuilt the engine of an old 1955 Willy's Jeep, balanced my books, started a newspaper company and then declared it bankrupt, dug a garden in my backyard with a focus on tropical fruits, mastered architectural draftsmanship, gotten an Upper Tonnage Captain's License for all Class A maritime vessels, shot the breeze, and done my laundry no less than 475 times. Today, I think I'll be making my own set of coffee mugs by hand -- each painted and glazed, of course -- then maybe taking a shower for the first time in six weeks, if my chronic constipation happens to let up (depends on whether I soil myself first), because I don't want to shower _then_ poop just so I'll have to shower again. Goodbye Let's Drown Out... and thanks for all the fish.
Things to take from this video: - Social Justice fanatics are tossers (as if you didn't know that already). - Yahtzee and Gabriel's amazingly petty and stubborn arguments are hilarious. - Yahtzee does a disturbingly sexy Princess Peach grunt.
I feel like Gabe may have chosen his words at the end a bit poorly. He said that you "can't" get fired for past interactions with prostitutes in his personal life and whatnot. This simply isn't true, I mean things like this happen somewhat often and I'm sure it happens in Australia. I think what he should have said is that it's not allowed to happen. It can still happen and you can then take legal action against the school for it, however just like any other business, Schools will break the rules and fire you hoping you won't take legal action. As to the argument of "You don't know anything about this, why would I listen to your opinion over that of those with knowledge on this" is a strange one to tackle. I see some people saying it's an appeal to authority fallacy, but I don't really see it as that. He isn't saying that the authority on it automatically knows best, he is saying that he and they know more about it than Yahtzee. That may not make Yahtzee wrong of course, although it is a valid point that needs to be explored. I think they're both right to a degree and that this was a conflict of miscommunication more than anything. Yahtzee is correct that they could fire him over that and Gabe is correct that they aren't allowed to do that. They never really got into proof and evidence and had a somewhat unproductive argument about education on it, however the core points are still valid. This would probably be a much more productive conversation when not discussed on a youtube video game show with a drunk man an hour into a session of Super Mario Bros 2.
@@caramia6681 It sounded like he was trying to make a point. Yahtzee wasn't saying Gabe needs to be a Journalist to understand Journalism. He was showing how annoying it is to be told that you can't know anything if you haven't been in it.
Yahtzee was right though...parents get teachers fired all the time over small things, it's not even uncommon. "I don't want someone who does X and X to teach my kids!!" If you get enough of the classes' parents complaining, you'll get fired. "YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT THIS" is a weird argument for something that happens quite often...
In the USA it happens all the time too, idk what he's talking about thinking it cant happen, sure it'd be illegal to fire him just over that but once it starts affecting the kids in that they learn about it, and make a big deal about it you start hearing things like "disruptive to the child's learning environment" and "moral standards" and "policy of faculty excellence" and it ends in someone losing their job.
i love the fact that the argument and the game were synced by the end. just looping on and on and on, answering the bomb puzzle with the same answer even if it didn't further the conversation like a stubborn Gaigi, luibriel? sooo yea, idk just found that amusing.
I already had my own Drown Out drinking game. Drink when: Yahtzee and Gabe argue, either bring up past problems/disorders in their lives, Gabe gives a none opinion on a topic or question, Gabe says 'again' or when they start a new topic.
Spoiler for the last 10 minutes: Yahtzee stuck in a loop. Both in game and in conversation. Gabe: They have no right to ... Yahtzee: They have no right, but they could! People are crazy! Gabe: But they have no right!!! They could not!
Gab is correct that Yahtzee doesn't know anything about Australian education via employment with D.E.C's but he is right that about it can become an issue if a parent or fellow teacher brings this up with the school but it wouldn't effect his future employment with another public school. Private is another issue though. (3 years doing a bachelor of education)
Gabrielle was being an ass. He strikes me as the type of person who thinks he is much smarter than he really is, and then ignorantly boasts about it...
StevenGaspard I got the fealing of "please do not use the private school/company argument especially when the teaching profession is not like working in a store" line of thinking. Even I reacted to the stubbornes about that it will bite him in the ass later on without laying out an argument that supports an exact example of when somthing like that have happend.
Yahtzee wasnt even arguing that it definitely would be an issue, he just asked how Gab would handle it if a parent made a stink about it, and Gab lost his shit. Gab was just being an ass...
StevenGaspard True but then again, Yahtzee where talking about a profession where he actually lack knowledge when it comes to employment etc. I am not trying to defend Gab I am just acting as an devils advocate and showing both sides.
Lets face it they are both condescending pricks but that's why they are interesting to listen to. My best friend and I have a similar relationship. The whole you only graduated high school part really sounded familiar.
I'll give it to Yatzee about the hiring process. Yes it might be legal, but you that doesn't mean it isn't frowned upon, and a school board could potentionally find a way to fire you (there is always a way). I don't know if it's harder in Australia, but knowing about the schoolsystem in Scandinavia (Denmark to be precise), they'll find a way to fire you if they want.
Sorry Gabe, as a teacher, I agree with Yahtzee. If parents generate an uproar about something, it can affect your career - even if it is not illegal. It may be different in Australia, but parents cause problems the world over.
Question: Why does Gabriel think that an argument for authority is a valid argument? eg: "You don't know about this, I do". One should argue against points rather than the person. Gabriel should really read about Graham's hierarchy of disagreement.
That wasn't an argument from authority, he just said that Yahtzee had no knowledge of the education system or how it operated with regarding hiring and firing, and so the situation he mentioned (being fired for using s prostitute) couldn't legally happen.
"You lack sufficient knowledge to make such a point, but I have the sufficient knowledge to explain why your point is invalid." Is not arguing from authority. "You're wrong because person X says you are" Is arguing from authority.
Can X not be "I"? Regardless, it's still not a valid argument. A stupid/ignorant person can still make a valid point. He didn't really explain why his (Yahtzee's) point was invalid. He almost exclusively made truth statements (as paraphrased in my first comment). As far as his actual arguments go, he's both incorrect and correct, as he would be legally in the right, but if a business wants to fire someone, they can do it. If they're smart, it'd be pretty difficult for him to prove that they fired him for hiring a prostitute.
The main issue I'm seeing with the comments section about Gabe's argument with Yahtzee is that everyone seems to be thinking about this from a European or American standpoint where prostitution isn't legal. It is legal in Australia, and therefore he's not breaking the law. While he could get harassed by the fussy moms if they actually knew how to work a damn computer in the future when he'll be teaching kids and somehow stumble upon these videos, they won't be able to touch him. It's not illegal, he's going to be employed by the state, and therefore can't be fired for doing something legal.
The fun part about complaining about an American view on prostution is that Prostution is legal in Nevada. Well except in Washoe County and Clark County. So you can't legally hire a in Reno, Sparks, or Las Vegas, just for example. I think Carson City too.
Gabriel the hedgehog's personality according to the wiki: "Gabriel is a very sadistic, yet humorous hedgehog. He has total disregard for life. As a well known killer, he plans to rid the universe of all life and restart life on his own. He has a very sarcastic tone when talking to anyone. He usually mocks their tone and voice, driving them insane. THis derives from his enjoyment of watching people go crazy. He has said this is a hobby of his."
You know gabe people have been fired from teaching jobs over perfectly legal private things before, or at least in some cases they can be forced out without a direct firing, just to appease the parents and keep faith in the school district. Theyll sometimes fire them for a generalized version of the percieved offense worded in such a way that goes against policy, or another reason no one can refute thats perfectly fireable, in some cases they can just hire a replacement teacher and cut their hours until they are forced to quit.
This might be the best episode yet. Yathzee gets drunk. Him and Gabe say ridiculous things and then to top it off Gabe gets into an argument with a drunk like he's back watching the club door again.
Gabe can be so naive sometimes. Just because something isn't technically allowed to happen doesn't mean it can and has due to a loophole or disregard for the rules.
+Hurrywind That annoyed me too, he seems oblivious to the fact that people might be against prostitution and punish him but cite a proper reason for doing so.
Janine Cat No ones saying he can't or shouldn't do anything, jut acknowledging that people don't do everything by the book even if they pretend to and might target people for reasons they shouldn't be allowed to but shrug it off.
Oh man, listening to you guys talk about Target was hilarious. The petition was CREATED by a moral busybody, but the majority of people who signed it were from 4chan's video games board.
The only reason people want to legalize prostitution is because of the internal conflict of wanting porn to stay legal, since porn is filmed prostitution.
Sorry Gabe, Yahtzee has a point, you could be fired. Maybe it's different in Australia but here in the US I've seen plenty of teachers get canned for that kind of thing... and I have a degree in Education so I know what I'm talking about
It's a bit of fascinating synchronicity that the word that lead to this episode was "Tired" and this is the episode where the pick-a-word gimmick officially ends, and the series goes into a brief hiatus. "Tired" in more way then one, it would seem.
*Australia* bans GTAV due to violence, *Germany* ALWAYS issues non-gore editions of games, any Asian Islamic countries (and *Middle-East* particularly) bans games that depict Islam in an offending way, *China* bans games that "blacken" the image of the superiority of China and *USA* focuses on sexual-related content to ban games. Meanwhile, less active countries in gaming retail industry like South/West/Scandinavian Europe, or 2nd world countries like Russia and its former CCCP countries take NO actions whatsoever. Seems like developed countries aren't so developed in social structures and tolerance. A rating implementation isn't enough for them, so BANNING is a solution. Hell, you can be brought to court and have your games confiscated in Germany and the retailer fined for demonstrating a game you just bought. Because we all know the "M" or "AO" rating is too complex for human intelligence.
Russia just doesnt give a damn, like most eastern european countries. They complain more about the time people and kids spend playing them then what they are playing. europe doesnt use letters it uses number, which is way better, the M T and what ever else, is honestly too vague.
It's not banned. What's happened is that one company has decided not to sell it. There's still plenty of other stores where you can make a perfectly legitimate purchase. Target isn't even a good place to get games. Last time I saw a PC section in Target (admittedly it was a long time ago) it was filled with nothing but Sims expansion packs.
***** I don't mean this Target example. Australia is regularly considered a video game wasteland at times. Games that are accessible on other harsh countries (Risen? Seriously?) are banned/heavily modified. Even yahtzee (and I suppose every gamer in AU) considers Australian classification board a plague. But where I come from, there aren't any laws to censor/monitor/regulate a game other than the pre-packaged rating on the box, so I don't have a strong sense what is going on down there.
flyingspagetti It's really not _that_ bad. And since we got the R18+ rating last year I haven't heard of any bans or modifications. The most recent one I can think of is the removal of the anal-penetration weapons from Saint's Row IV. There's a law in Australia that says games are not allowed to show express or implied sexual violence. Saint's Row IV's devs had to either cut it out of the Australian version of the game or get banned. I don't think it was necessary (it's true that the ratings board seems to be run by fussy old men who work on typewriters and think video games and rock are tools of the devil), but on the other hand that law single-handedly proves the GTA V petition false, as if it were true, you would not be able to legally purchase it in the country.
Gabe really was spouting bullshit here, as an avid university student it kinda puts me off when someone tries to use the fact that they got a higher education to automatically win an argument. That is only to be used when actual factual knowledge is concerned, for example some people don't properly know what schizophrenic means so informing them about the actual definition is aright. But here, good old Yahtzee brings up a good point. Part of a teachers job is to act in as a moral compass, which may or may not be implied in the work description. This is also something that parents generally rattle on about. Now with that in mind, if a teacher does something perceived to be immoral and the parents find out about it, as well as react to it and bring it to the principals attention. Then the teacher who did the act would be in a very bad position and could perhaps be fired, and at this point it wouldn't matter if the action was legal or illegal since the cause of the situation or firing would be based upon the parents and backed with the power they have to pull their children out of that school. Seams more like Gabe got upset about this rather than think about the actual argument, perhaps it's also for the best to blatantly deny the proposition because of the implication it would mean to agree to it being a problem. Anyway don't act pretentious because you got upset and have a higher education, since higher education often involve thinking critically about your own and others knowledge or opinions.
Gabe, you don't need to be an accredited scholar to present a possible scenario in which the things you've said in a public environment come back later to cause you issues. There's legal restrictions on ending someone's employment. But if someone has a non-valid (As dictated by your local laws, union agreements and employment contract) reason for firing you, like a personal moral objection, then they're going to work around those restrictions to make it happen. People that care about these things, however petty and stupid, will not just decide not to bother just because there's some obstacles in removing you. Well, they might, it's impossible to know with a purely hypothetical scenario. They might try and screw it up too, leaving you with a fat compensation for an illegal termination. That said, I don't think you should have to constantly monitor yourself in case you might offend someone. It's impossible to live without offending someone. Better to just maintain a position you can justify to yourself and deal with the consequences as (/if) they come. I think the best response to someone bringing the subject up is: "If it happens, I'll deal with it". You really need to stop falling back on "You don't know anything about this" as an argument. Be more specific about what people are ignorant about, like the specifics of a teachers employment contract, and union mandated or legal restrictions in regards to terminations. Pardon the lecture. It just bugs me when someone has a valid point (Or at least confidence in their position) but undermine it with poor rhetoric.
@@zombieslayer095 okay so first Gabriel in the time in this video came up was not a teacher has never experienced being a teacher and at such doesn't know that there are certain ways that a teacher can be fired because they are unfavored by the parents of students if parents want a teacher removed badly enough they will do things like pulling their children out of the school that he happens to be working in and if asked why they're doing this if they State I don't approve of him teaching my students if he has this that or the other view then it is possible that the school will take that as an excuse to fire him though it may be wrongful termination if they refuse to do that and more students are pulled out of their school they will start to lose funding from the government this will in turn mean that they have to start laying off workers and teachers if the very first person they happened to layoff is Gabriel then that will satisfy the parents there are ways around wrongful termination no matter what contract you sign does not wrongful termination if you are laid off because they cannot pay you anymore if they can't pay you it can be because of a myriad of things and they can chalk it up to those lack of funding is a reason to lay off a worker whether it be a teacher a chef or anything else in other words what he says can come back to bite him in the ass that is the point Yahtzee is making it is still in the realm of possibilities that's what he's pointing out Gabe is taking the opinion that because he hasn't read it in a lecture or heard it spoken by a teacher that it can't happen but there's this sneaky little thing that you're not told by your teachers and that is whether you are a student becoming a teacher or going into any profession and that's all the negative things that come with that job for example if you decide that you want to be a miner I guarantee you your first days will not be them explain to you in detail all the ways you can get injured and that is the same kind of rhetoric you can use when it comes to somebody trying to teach you on how to be a teacher they can explain to you and they won't explain to you all the ways you can be terminated wrongfully or justifiably because technically being laid off counts as a termination and they can find a way to lay you off if it's not in their budget to pay you and they can claim that budget restrictions is the reason they fired you and as long as that is on a written piece of paper it will be legitimate in the eyes of the law so long as they can prove that there was some kind of budget problems.
Gonna have to agree with Gabe on that last debate about prostitution. As much as I like him, Yahtzee can be annoying stubborn in arguments. Just my opinion.
On what? That the parents can complain and force the school to fire a teacher without having any legal reason? It has happen before you know. I despise such acts but idiocy shows up where it is unwarranted all the time in school policy from the naiv minds of parents. A former Black metal musician who was going to teach guitar technics was prohibited giving a hour seminar at my music school becasue he proclaimed he was a Satanist in his youth, it was by some christian parantes. This was in norway mind you, in a school that didn't even have a religious stand. Fucking sickening
Luigi's slow floaty jump is actually a bonus since it gives you improved jump correction time. You can treat it just like Peach's float, and you get higher jump and faster grab on top of it. You always want to pick Toad for the last level of each world, since it's just a boss fight and he's the best at that.
Jesus Gabriel, you don't half talk a lot of bollocks sometimes. Yahtzee's point was totally valid, and his perceived lack of insider knowledge about the hiring and firing in the education system had absolutely no bearing on said validity - and you know it.
"As long as you're convinced that it doesn't matter and will never matter" That's probably Yahtzee's biggest point and he just glossed over it. Just because he can do something now, doesn't mean laws can't get changed and bite him in the ass in the future.
"Hi Gabe. I understand you've said some things that are unsavory in videos from several years ago. Oh, and you're being fired for completely unrelated reasons." "What? B-b-but the system! You can't do that!" "Can and did. Bye now."
Actual teacher here. Or educational field worker or whatever the fuck Gabe thinks I am. Internet presence is something you are supposed to police as a teacher. Like it or not, you're a public figure. Students have Google and parents monitor their kids. Yahtzee's scenario is completely plausible. To think this won't happen cause you plan to teach poor kids just shows casual contempt for those communities. Can you be fired over it? Probably not. It's hard to fire teachers. But you'll end up in union mediation and probably get yourself into sensitivity training if you try to pull the 'it's legal' card. But what's more likely is that, on account of the fact that more administrators know how to use Google on their big hires, Gabriel will not get jobs he otherwise might have got. Teaching is a competitive field and no admin wants to have a teacher that triggers union mediation. But even if you accept Gabriel's premise that no harm would be done, no sane teacher wants to set themselves up for any kind of parental grievance. That's a huge waste of time and can go on for months. Anyhow, the lesson is: Don't listen to Gabriel, kids. If you want a job like teaching, then keep your internet life and your personal life far away from the students.
Yes Gabriel, it *is* possible that something you've done in the past (that a school might object to) could result in you being fired. You're just relying on the point that they *shouldn't* be able to.
0:41 You always use Luigi because he's the "best", if you know what I mean ;) Yeah, Yahtzee. Don't think that we've all forgotten your fantasies of stroking Luigi's moustache and having him tease you in a leather cat suit. They may just be jokes, but behind every joke there's a reality. 25:05 For example, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword has a re-imagining of the story of Jesus Christ, with Zelda as the incarnation of a deity who must pass away before reawakening and blessing the world. That was really cool, even though it simply gave purpose to the questionable gameplay.
Oh lord, the argument at the end, what a shame. Some kid thinks he's untouchable and gets indignant. For anyone wanting to skip the bickering that shouldn't have any place in a video between two people whose ethos is in their intelligence, eloquence, and graciousness in speaking to one another, just stop watching at 55:00. I can only hope it doesn't happen again.
I can actually feel the audience butt clenching at what Gabe was saying. I am sure I'm not the first to point it out but just because you had education in something does not mean you understand every aspect of it or that the information given to you is perfectly accurate. Teachers and professors are capable of being wrong and while I agree that a professors opinion on their field of study should be held above that of someone who is not directly trained in it, dismissing the opinions of people who are not traditionally trained in something is absurd. I think Gabe puts too much stock in the Education System OVER any other form of education, like self education. Basically No, you cannot be fired from a public school system because of your person life so long as what you do is not illegal. However, you can be pressured into being fired by having your classes restricted, parents can request that their students not be taught by you, and if enough parents make that request you can be fired on the grounds of, and I quote: "a lack of trust in the professor's abilities to teach and deliver unbiased information to their students". As such, yes, teachers DO have to worry about their private lives becoming public. Why do you think that teachers in the USA who are gay often times hide it? My music teacher in middle school had to wait 12 god damned years before the community was accepting enough to openly accept him when he came out as gay.
Gabe really doesn't know what he is talking about; the teaching profession is one of the most heavily scrutinised positions there is. Ones actions and beliefs both past and present can bite you in the arse; especially if parents catch wind of what they consider to be in their eyes questionable activities. The legality of Prostitution doesn't mean one iota; many parents will still not want that person teaching their children and thus will promptly lobby to have that teacher removed from office. Take Cristy Nicole for example who got fired from her position at a Texas school because in the past she had modelled for Playboy magazine. Despite being perfectly legal to have posed for the shoot in the past, some parents complained to the school and subsequently she was fired from her position. All I can say is if Gabriel wishes to pursue a career in teaching; he should really think about what he says in these videos because these words may later on prove to be the death knell of a budding career before it even starts!
***** So I'm the bad guy for showing concern for Gabe's future career prospects? For your information I'm from the UK; where teachers are consistently scrutinised. Also states has an "e" in it, and actually has a "y" at the end. I recommend you brush up on your typing skills before you throw fail around at people; because as it stands I would argue you are the failure.
Watching Yahtzee try to clear that last room... Ugh... That's a basic puzzle, you grab the furthest bomb you can and work your way in, it's not rocket science.
Just a point in regards to the big school argument, Yahtzee's point is quite valid as not too long ago there was a woman in America who lost her job after they found out she had been in adult films 20 years prior to taking up teaching. Not illegal, and of course 2 whole decades since it even happened, but she lost her job because of parent's complaining about it.
So question for listeners, considering each episode of "Drown Out" covers current events how much would you recommend going back and watching the first stuff Yahtzee and Gabe did? Need something to listen to while I go about my business.
Yeah, the first let's play's have virtually no news in them. I heartily recommend "Alex Kidd in High Tech World" and "Normality", perhaps the two best ones. And I don't really recommend "Operation Stealth", "Curse of Enchantia" and "Flashback". I mean, I've watched all of them multiple times, but they're pretty subpar.
"Taking their fucking point of view as being the objective from which everyone is trying to differ. That there is a multiplicity of points of view negates your ability to state that one occurence is producing..." Oh yeah, no waffling here.
Gabe, I think Yahtzee is right. A past of drug use and the use of prostitutes (even just once) could well come back to haunt you in a teaching profession. Although I think this could really benefit any teacher, as it opens up a world of experience that teenage/college age students could be dealing with, and someone with a bit of first hand experience could be invaluable to them dealing with similar situation of their own. BUT we live in a very conservative world (just look at who is in power in Australia...) and a lot of parents might feel very uncomfortable knowing that someone who has had a past like this is teaching their kids. Also, if these stories got out in a school, they could be warped and embellished and could be used against you. It might be worth culling the videos where you discuss these topics when you come to look for a job. Having a completely neutral or even better, no online presence at all is often the best for people in teaching or similar occupations as nothing can be dredged up used against you.
Does anybody know which episode of Lets Drown Out features an anecdote about how Yahtzee came up with the idea of Mogworld? I think it was something about World Of Warcraft…
Great!! I wanted to suggest an episode to a friend to get him into the series, and since this one contains probably the funniest moment yet I'll link him to it… Thanks.
19:57 its like the Australian card that was suggested during the Howard gov, we didnt want to hand over our personal movements and info like that back then, but we are more than happy to hand it to google/apple/microsoft in exchange of a smart phone.
Gabe thinking parents will be fine that a teacher previously used prostitutes while currently there is a principal who has 19,000 signatures to have him removed due to him liking Iron Maiden, Gabe was being so niaive here
They go together better than you might expect. The purest comedy comes from "dark places" & deep self loathing. I can't remember which comedians have said that, but if Patton Oswalt has ever touched on it, then he'd be the best possible source.
Gabe is making an argument from authority. Authority has no bearing on whether something is true. If parents do not like you, you will be fired. Period. Not for whatever they dislike you for, but for some- any other reason, and you will have no way to prove that that was why you got fired.
His argument wasn't "You don't know because you're not a teacher", it was "you don't know because you have no knowledge on this topic". It's less "you can't be a film critic because you don't make films" and more "your criticisms are invalid because you know literally nothing about films".
You can't be fired because parents don't like you. That isn't a valid reason for termination. Gabe was arguing on what is valid termination. Is Gabe using his authority to shorten the conversation? Yes. But its not an argument from authority.
gregheffly Yep Gabe shot down Yahtzee's argument pretty fast and Yahtzee got pissed off and kept pushing a statement. If a teacher was fired for doing something legal well before his employment started, he would have lawyers camping out side his house trying to pick up a case.
Pink Wired Chicken Yep, Yahtzee often makes "wins" arguments from consistently barraging the opponent. More than once Gabe been right but has been shutup by Yahtzee.
That was a delightful argument towards the end there. Usually I end up siding with one of them over the other, but they were both being fantastically bullheaded this time around. The highlight for me was when Gabriel alluded to something he said earlier about the chances of him getting into trouble being "unlikely" -- only he never actually said that, as far as I can tell; he spent most of the argument denying any possibility of trouble, which was the root of the argument in the first place! Also, "What do you know about X?" (in this case, education) is a really diabolical question, in my mind. It provides no starting point or end point. A person can be quite familiar with a given subject and still not be prepared to present a thorough rundown of all their knowledge appertaining to it at the drop of a hat. I, at least, would have trouble doing it.
Yahtzee started it off with a fun little dialogue but Gabe took it a little too seriously. I thought it was going to be a fun little audio puppet show of sorts. :'(
I do find it interesting that Yahtzee is talking about how there isn't sexism in games, and yet he has called out at least a dozen games (Metriod other M, Wet, Bayonetta, Lollypop Chainsaw, Call of Duty: Ghosts,, Ninja Gaidan, Wind Waker, Metal Gear Solid (all of them), Infamous, Killer is Dead, Beyond two Souls, all the mario games, ride to hell retribution, Tome Raider (all of them), Black Ops 2, Duke Nukem Forever, Resident Evil 4/5/Revelation, Gears of War 2/3, the first Witcher, Cathrine, Mortal Kombat, Heavy Rain, Dante's Inferno, all the UnCharted games, Ctrl-Alt-Del) for their depiction of female characters, and praised Sands of Time, Shovel Knight, Portal for their depiction of female characters. Not to mention he has spent a great deal of time calling out COD, Resident Evil 5 and Uncharted for racism.
i think the main thing thing is theirs a difference between depiction of women and being sexist. Sexist is going trying to offend and undermine the other race. Their is no way video game devs go out of their way to do that in this day and age. Yahtzee for those games criticized the depiction of women but never called them sexist. You can't call the idea of something sexist cause everyone becomes offended for different things. You can however criticize poor female characters and praise those who do it well. The same thing can be said for the racist games as their is a difference between how the race is presented and written to just being racist.
Gnomelord0 First of all WTF is with that list, Wind Waker Sexist??? Second the guy didn't say there wasn't sexism in video games, he just saying that in GTA 5 everyone looks horrible men and women a like. Are there sexist thing you can do in that game, OF COURSE, but the game does tell you be violent against specifically women nor does it reward you for being violent exclusively to women.
1) Take it up with Yahtzee, in his review of the game he pointed out how after Terra becomes Zelda a once active and engaging character gets put in a dress and just sits around doing nothing until the end 2) I am not talking about his views on GTA, I am talking about when yahtzee said that there isn't very much sexism in video games. He said that in the video before last as well.
Congratulations Yahtzee, this isn't exactly what you meant but it's damn close. Many companies have began to require the social media accounts of their employees to review behavior and fire people based on it, border control between Canada and the United States has looked into something similar (study at your leisure) and many employees were fired after reviewing their chat logs in League of Legends- point being, your actions and behavior can reflect poorly on you in the future and cause you to lose your job or never get it in the first place. Gabe was trying to make an argument that Yahtzee was wrong because he wasn't well versed in education but that was more elitist self glorifying than argumentative.
Not really. In public education he' d have the protection of Australian law, the teacher's union, and the fact that he's willing to take positions no one else wants. The worst that would be done to him is being transferred. Firing teachers in the US is hard, in Australia it's the next best thing to impossible.
@@natsume-hime2473 If recent years have taught us anything, it's that no one's protected from people overstepping their authority (especially in Australia).
I dont wanna side with Yahtz on this argument because I manlove you both. But I have worked in education, and trust me, you're always on thin ice. At least here in France. No idea how it works in australia, but I cant imagine people being less judgemental
That's just parents in general.... Most of them are terrible hypocrites being ridiculously suspicious towards any other person who might be an influence / indoctrinate their child towards certain things they don't like. They haven't learned that lesson yet that their children won't always be perfect clay to be modeled into a better version of themselves.
The thing about "if they're wrong they'll condemn themselves" is that there are too many ignorant people who won't know any better and give enough power to it to make it problematic.
people like you would rather treat those "ignorant people" like sheep and make them ignorant of ignorance instead of solving their ignorance all together. an ignorant society is an unhealthy society, regardless of what you're ignorant of. the attitude that you have some kind of special authority over information is one held by many failed and failing authoritiarian regimes.
yan-Deriction You sure jumped the gun there buddy. EHKOS Vaklam was just tryed to disprove the point not solve the problem, and you can't assume he hasn't tryed solveing the problem going of a single sentence. Take or example person 1 says "racism will go away if you ignore it" than person 2 disagrees and says "If people don't try and stop it won't go away" You can't assume that person 2 never has done anything to stop racism just by one comment.
"They can't legally fire me for using a prostitute" Oh Gabe, Gabe, you're so sweetly naive. As Martin says, there's a difference between pretext and reason. They could legally fire you in any one of a thousand other ways using a pretext like 'unprofessional attitude' or some such nonsense. You made a dig at the 'University of Life,' but that's how things work in the real world. People get fired over the most trivial shit but that's obviously not what the employer writes on the pink slip.
11:18 and 11:31 had me in tears. Though I certainly hope that particular part of this Drown Out doesn't make it to next week's Extra or Zero Punctuation like Drown Out usually does o_o
![Mario Party 3 (N64 NSO) - Chilly Waters 40 Turns as Mario Part 8: Turns 29-32 [Super Hard]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sBYS3UIRbiU/mqdefault.jpg)
Rules for the Drown-Out Drinking Game:-
Drink every time the term "social justice" is used.
Drink every time Gabe repeats something in a sing-song voice.
Drink every time Yahtzee replies with a "Mmm".
Down your entire drink if they start bickering and get close to having a fist (well, slap) fight.
Feel free to add your own rules, of course =)
Drink everytime Gabriel waffles and drink again when Yahtzee calls him out on it.
Drink whenever Yahtzee genuinely laughs.
Drink when Gabriel cries laughing.
Drink whenever Gabe coughs in the microphone
thanks now i have alcohol poisoning
Drink when Yahtzee quotes one of his reviews.
Drink when the Lizard people come for your soft and tasty flesh because beer battered meaty morsels are delicious.
"Jared Leto as Joker, I'm looking forward to that"
well that didnt age well
Gabe, there were actual teachers fired for being associated with (legal) prostitution and/or pornography. I'm with Yahtzee on this. Not likely to happen, not at all, but more possible then a zombie invasion and we don't answer "What would you do in case of a zombie invasion?" questions with "What do you actually know about the science behind being a zombie?".
*****
Most stories I heard are from various US states.
*****
I don't think Australia and US law differ much with regards to this. Quick google search shows there are similar cases in Australia.
***** It's not actually a law. The school just wanted to fire those people without legal reasons, but they can because it's their school and they care for their appearance. The same can happen in any country.
Poki#3 Then your conntry sucks. Sorry to hear that.
A bloke at a high school near to where I live had to leave his job, didn't get sacked, but was basically forced out of his job, because certain students found out that for a brief time he was one of those webcam porn-star types. Now correct me if I'm wrong, there's nothing illegal about being in that type of job, and yet because people found out about it, he had to leave his teaching job.
I'm sorry Gabe, but I'm with Yahtzee on this one. Just because it might not be illegal, doesn't mean it can't jeopardise your career. Things you say, or even do, on the internet can absolutely bite you in the arse.
Different context, and the guy wasn't fired, he "had to leave". What does that mean, where do you live, what is the policy? It's not as easy as just saying "You could get fired for that thing", there has to be legitimate reasons behind the firing. That's not the case in the US in some states where they can fire you for no reason, but not in most of the world. If this bloke was constructively dismissed, he has grounds to sue.
And while Yahtzee was right, Gabe was right in arguing that he spoke from a place of no experience, and that the chances were extremely remote and very actionable if they did happen.
This is doubley true and has been accepted as gospel for 20 years for any Artists or Writers especially who are seeking employment in general "E for everyone" entertainment fields. Sometimes aliases aren't even enough if you ever created and uploaded works of porn even a decade ago, and your "style" is obvious enough.
Though in cases with certain M+ videogame studios, or japan in general, it could actually improve on your resume so it's not always a death knell. There's definitely something to be said about artists who have a lot of experience with Anatomy and physical character interaction. ....but I can't think of a single case for teaching where "hookers & blow" would give anyone a leg up :\
Well. Schools need students, students have parents, and while stuff might not be illegal, parents can pull their kids out of certain school because they don't want their kid taught by a person who is this and that, or does this and that. And while bigger school have the pull and budget to go "lol u can fuk off then m8" most smaller ones don't, and will eventually get rid of the offending teacher in one way or another.
As far as I recall though, Gabriel wants to teach what he calls feral children, and I'm assuming the parents are pretty much out of the picture in that context, so this might not be that much of a problem for him.
Well here's a comment 4 years late.
Saying stuff on the internet absolutely can bite you in the ass, sometimes not even anything major, I was pulled into a meeting with HR recently over a comment I made online regarding the promotion of alcohol (work in a large supermarket chain who don't seem to like that), it wasn't even a bad comment, just insinuated were selling alot of alcohol after someone on FB said people don't want specials on beer. Ended up with a written warning over that, so yeah comments online can absolutely bite you
"It's legal to have sex with one of my students provided their over sixteen"
Yah, while that may be legal it would still get a teacher fired because it is considered to be an abuse of power
Might depend on the jurisdiction.
They're *
@@DanceTranced You're four years late with that correction, but I appreciate it nonetheless.
@@lehelisbored he learnt you good. Just thought Id stick my nose in a year later because im feeling edgy af atm
I want to edit together all the times Gabe's said he's above anger and it's a waste of energy in between all his rages/rants
It's not anger, it's turmoil. Anger is energy that leads to emotionally fueled decisions. Turmoil is thinking through a reasonable conversation with someone else of equal intellect and equal stubbornness. He's raising his voice because Yahtzee is being loud. Gabe isn't belittling Yahtzee where as Yahtzee is taking it personally and is belittling Gabe.
@@TheD736That's a suspiciously waffly answer there... Gabriel, yeah I'm calling it!
I wasn't even paying attention to Gabe and Yahtzee's little arguement. I was too busy screaming at my screen "SOLVE THE FUCKING BOMB PUZZLE ALREADY!"
***** not after 2 ciders he wasn't.
Yhatzee calls this little sideshow tedious and uninteresting, but I'm never more productive than when I put it on as background noise. To date, since the start of this series, I've learned how to play the guitar, knitted my own pair of long-johns, sculpted a marble replica of my cat, finished "War and Peace," rebuilt the engine of an old 1955 Willy's Jeep, balanced my books, started a newspaper company and then declared it bankrupt, dug a garden in my backyard with a focus on tropical fruits, mastered architectural draftsmanship, gotten an Upper Tonnage Captain's License for all Class A maritime vessels, shot the breeze, and done my laundry no less than 475 times. Today, I think I'll be making my own set of coffee mugs by hand -- each painted and glazed, of course -- then maybe taking a shower for the first time in six weeks, if my chronic constipation happens to let up (depends on whether I soil myself first), because I don't want to shower _then_ poop just so I'll have to shower again.
Goodbye Let's Drown Out... and thanks for all the fish.
Things to take from this video:
- Social Justice fanatics are tossers (as if you didn't know that already).
- Yahtzee and Gabriel's amazingly petty and stubborn arguments are hilarious.
- Yahtzee does a disturbingly sexy Princess Peach grunt.
- Alcohol Yahtzee is not very good at video games
"Censorship is saying a man can't have a steak because a baby can't chew it"
-Mark Twain
I feel like Gabe may have chosen his words at the end a bit poorly. He said that you "can't" get fired for past interactions with prostitutes in his personal life and whatnot. This simply isn't true, I mean things like this happen somewhat often and I'm sure it happens in Australia. I think what he should have said is that it's not allowed to happen. It can still happen and you can then take legal action against the school for it, however just like any other business, Schools will break the rules and fire you hoping you won't take legal action.
As to the argument of "You don't know anything about this, why would I listen to your opinion over that of those with knowledge on this" is a strange one to tackle. I see some people saying it's an appeal to authority fallacy, but I don't really see it as that. He isn't saying that the authority on it automatically knows best, he is saying that he and they know more about it than Yahtzee. That may not make Yahtzee wrong of course, although it is a valid point that needs to be explored.
I think they're both right to a degree and that this was a conflict of miscommunication more than anything. Yahtzee is correct that they could fire him over that and Gabe is correct that they aren't allowed to do that. They never really got into proof and evidence and had a somewhat unproductive argument about education on it, however the core points are still valid.
This would probably be a much more productive conversation when not discussed on a youtube video game show with a drunk man an hour into a session of Super Mario Bros 2.
It would be terribly ironic if Yahtzee ends up getting fired due to this very video years down the line, now that he's in the States.
@@caramia6681 It sounded like he was trying to make a point. Yahtzee wasn't saying Gabe needs to be a Journalist to understand Journalism. He was showing how annoying it is to be told that you can't know anything if you haven't been in it.
Yahtzee was right though...parents get teachers fired all the time over small things, it's not even uncommon.
"I don't want someone who does X and X to teach my kids!!" If you get enough of the classes' parents complaining, you'll get fired.
"YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT THIS" is a weird argument for something that happens quite often...
In Germany it happens fucking fast.
In the USA it happens all the time too, idk what he's talking about thinking it cant happen, sure it'd be illegal to fire him just over that but once it starts affecting the kids in that they learn about it, and make a big deal about it you start hearing things like "disruptive to the child's learning environment" and "moral standards" and "policy of faculty excellence" and it ends in someone losing their job.
Yahtzee and Gabe are my favourite elderly gay couple on the Internet
i love the fact that the argument and the game were synced by the end. just looping on and on and on, answering the bomb puzzle with the same answer even if it didn't further the conversation like a stubborn Gaigi, luibriel? sooo yea, idk just found that amusing.
The way Yahtzee just says "You stupid b*tch!" at 27:08 always cracks me up.
I already had my own Drown Out drinking game. Drink when: Yahtzee and Gabe argue, either bring up past problems/disorders in their lives, Gabe gives a none opinion on a topic or question, Gabe says 'again' or when they start a new topic.
That sounds like permanent liver damage within a month.
'none opinion'?
I fail to see how you are still alive.
JordyT1998
Where he starts with "well, i mean, i can see why somebody would xxx" and goes on to be all understanding and shit :P
I still have no idea what context none opinion means. Fill me in on the drown out topic...
Spoiler for the last 10 minutes:
Yahtzee stuck in a loop. Both in game and in conversation.
Gabe: They have no right to ...
Yahtzee: They have no right, but they could! People are crazy!
Gabe: But they have no right!!! They could not!
Gab is correct that Yahtzee doesn't know anything about Australian education via employment with D.E.C's but he is right that about it can become an issue if a parent or fellow teacher brings this up with the school but it wouldn't effect his future employment with another public school. Private is another issue though. (3 years doing a bachelor of education)
Gabrielle was being an ass. He strikes me as the type of person who thinks he is much smarter than he really is, and then ignorantly boasts about it...
StevenGaspard I got the fealing of "please do not use the private school/company argument especially when the teaching profession is not like working in a store" line of thinking.
Even I reacted to the stubbornes about that it will bite him in the ass later on without laying out an argument that supports an exact example of when somthing like that have happend.
Yahtzee wasnt even arguing that it definitely would be an issue, he just asked how Gab would handle it if a parent made a stink about it, and Gab lost his shit. Gab was just being an ass...
StevenGaspard True but then again, Yahtzee where talking about a profession where he actually lack knowledge when it comes to employment etc.
I am not trying to defend Gab I am just acting as an devils advocate and showing both sides.
Lets face it they are both condescending pricks but that's why they are interesting to listen to. My best friend and I have a similar relationship. The whole you only graduated high school part really sounded familiar.
I'll give it to Yatzee about the hiring process. Yes it might be legal, but you that doesn't mean it isn't frowned upon, and a school board could potentionally find a way to fire you (there is always a way). I don't know if it's harder in Australia, but knowing about the schoolsystem in Scandinavia (Denmark to be precise), they'll find a way to fire you if they want.
Sorry Gabe, as a teacher, I agree with Yahtzee. If parents generate an uproar about something, it can affect your career - even if it is not illegal. It may be different in Australia, but parents cause problems the world over.
Gabe is a great example of why schooling means nothing when judging a person's intellect.
"And that's why I never went to university or college, mom."
8 years later and 360K views. Even if he did become a teacher I think Yahtzee grossly overestimated his popularity among future young people.
Question: Why does Gabriel think that an argument for authority is a valid argument? eg: "You don't know about this, I do".
One should argue against points rather than the person.
Gabriel should really read about Graham's hierarchy of disagreement.
Because he's not a smart man but he fancies himself otherwise.
That wasn't an argument from authority, he just said that Yahtzee had no knowledge of the education system or how it operated with regarding hiring and firing, and so the situation he mentioned (being fired for using s prostitute) couldn't legally happen.
"You lack sufficient knowledge to make such a point, but I have the sufficient knowledge to explain why your point is invalid."
Is not arguing from authority.
"You're wrong because person X says you are"
Is arguing from authority.
Can X not be "I"?
Regardless, it's still not a valid argument. A stupid/ignorant person can still make a valid point.
He didn't really explain why his (Yahtzee's) point was invalid. He almost exclusively made truth statements (as paraphrased in my first comment).
As far as his actual arguments go, he's both incorrect and correct, as he would be legally in the right, but if a business wants to fire someone, they can do it. If they're smart, it'd be pretty difficult for him to prove that they fired him for hiring a prostitute.
Whether or not it's correct to call it an argument from authority is besides the point. What matters is, Gabriel did not provide a valid argument.
"You stupid bitch!"
- Yahtzee, to Princess Peach, 2014.
The main issue I'm seeing with the comments section about Gabe's argument with Yahtzee is that everyone seems to be thinking about this from a European or American standpoint where prostitution isn't legal. It is legal in Australia, and therefore he's not breaking the law. While he could get harassed by the fussy moms if they actually knew how to work a damn computer in the future when he'll be teaching kids and somehow stumble upon these videos, they won't be able to touch him. It's not illegal, he's going to be employed by the state, and therefore can't be fired for doing something legal.
He admitted to taking cocaine, too.
So? Who cares? Do either of them taking cocaine affect you or your daily life what so ever?
darkfur3 No, but I'm saying he could get fired for that, as it is illegal.
Jack Caboose My middle school music teacher admitted to taking heroine when he was young and they used him in those anti-drug seminars.
The fun part about complaining about an American view on prostution is that Prostution is legal in Nevada. Well except in Washoe County and Clark County. So you can't legally hire a in Reno, Sparks, or Las Vegas, just for example. I think Carson City too.
I've seen teachers get fired for less.
Gabriel the hedgehog's personality according to the wiki:
"Gabriel is a very sadistic, yet humorous hedgehog. He has total disregard for life. As a well known killer, he plans to rid the universe of all life and restart life on his own.
He has a very sarcastic tone when talking to anyone. He usually mocks their tone and voice, driving them insane. THis derives from his enjoyment of watching people go crazy. He has said this is a hobby of his."
You know gabe people have been fired from teaching jobs over perfectly legal private things before, or at least in some cases they can be forced out without a direct firing, just to appease the parents and keep faith in the school district. Theyll sometimes fire them for a generalized version of the percieved offense worded in such a way that goes against policy, or another reason no one can refute thats perfectly fireable, in some cases they can just hire a replacement teacher and cut their hours until they are forced to quit.
This might be the best episode yet. Yathzee gets drunk. Him and Gabe say ridiculous things and then to top it off Gabe gets into an argument with a drunk like he's back watching the club door again.
"I almost wouldn't say Will Smith is black"
*Please don't.*
"He's Tiger Woods black"
*Stop.*
He's not threatening black"
*God damn it.*
Gabe says Yatzee is wrong.
doesn't explain why he's wrong.
You're saying that as if to suggest that he wasn't, or that Yahtzee wasn't also doing just that.
Gabe can be so naive sometimes. Just because something isn't technically allowed to happen doesn't mean it can and has due to a loophole or disregard for the rules.
+Hurrywind That annoyed me too, he seems oblivious to the fact that people might be against prostitution and punish him but cite a proper reason for doing so.
Why do anything ever then?
Janine Cat No ones saying he can't or shouldn't do anything, jut acknowledging that people don't do everything by the book even if they pretend to and might target people for reasons they shouldn't be allowed to but shrug it off.
"It's very easy to criticize"
Says the professional critic. I don't know, you tell me.
Oh man, listening to you guys talk about Target was hilarious. The petition was CREATED by a moral busybody, but the majority of people who signed it were from 4chan's video games board.
after the gamergate fiasco thats what 4chans /v/ board has become. moral busybodys. everyone else moved to 8chan
Ohad Balash
>implying
Someone posted it, thread lasted for hours, shit happens all the time. /v/ loves signing petitions.
>doublechan
>not moral busybodies
Fuck off shill nobody likes your shitty board.
commander9087 >doge
>le ebin pixel shades
If you thought I was cancer, boy do I have news for you.
"And now I will be better at this game"
Literally immediately dies.
Made my afternoon, lads.
"Don't talk when you're not on the mic"
-Yahtzee, 2014
The only reason people want to legalize prostitution is because of the internal conflict of wanting porn to stay legal, since porn is filmed prostitution.
Sorry Gabe, Yahtzee has a point, you could be fired. Maybe it's different in Australia but here in the US I've seen plenty of teachers get canned for that kind of thing... and I have a degree in Education so I know what I'm talking about
It's a bit of fascinating synchronicity that the word that lead to this episode was "Tired" and this is the episode where the pick-a-word gimmick officially ends, and the series goes into a brief hiatus. "Tired" in more way then one, it would seem.
"The best argument against democracy is a ten minute conversation with the average voter." Winston Churchill
And that's why the US is a republic.
@@Janzer_
Funny how a conversation is starting under a 6 year old video.
But we're fastly approaching a Plutocracy
@@ImortalZeus13 dude your profile picture looks like a Pokémon OC you drew, just stop now
*Australia* bans GTAV due to violence, *Germany* ALWAYS issues non-gore editions of games, any Asian Islamic countries (and *Middle-East* particularly) bans games that depict Islam in an offending way, *China* bans games that "blacken" the image of the superiority of China and *USA* focuses on sexual-related content to ban games.
Meanwhile, less active countries in gaming retail industry like South/West/Scandinavian Europe, or 2nd world countries like Russia and its former CCCP countries take NO actions whatsoever.
Seems like developed countries aren't so developed in social structures and tolerance. A rating implementation isn't enough for them, so BANNING is a solution. Hell, you can be brought to court and have your games confiscated in Germany and the retailer fined for demonstrating a game you just bought. Because we all know the "M" or "AO" rating is too complex for human intelligence.
Russia just doesnt give a damn, like most eastern european countries.
They complain more about the time people and kids spend playing them then what they are playing.
europe doesnt use letters it uses number, which is way better, the M T and what ever else, is honestly too vague.
It's not banned. What's happened is that one company has decided not to sell it. There's still plenty of other stores where you can make a perfectly legitimate purchase. Target isn't even a good place to get games. Last time I saw a PC section in Target (admittedly it was a long time ago) it was filled with nothing but Sims expansion packs.
karambiatos Australia's rating system has specified ages in their definitions. Not to mention "M15+" and "R18+" are fairly self-explanatory.
*****
I don't mean this Target example. Australia is regularly considered a video game wasteland at times. Games that are accessible on other harsh countries (Risen? Seriously?) are banned/heavily modified. Even yahtzee (and I suppose every gamer in AU) considers Australian classification board a plague. But where I come from, there aren't any laws to censor/monitor/regulate a game other than the pre-packaged rating on the box, so I don't have a strong sense what is going on down there.
flyingspagetti It's really not _that_ bad. And since we got the R18+ rating last year I haven't heard of any bans or modifications. The most recent one I can think of is the removal of the anal-penetration weapons from Saint's Row IV. There's a law in Australia that says games are not allowed to show express or implied sexual violence. Saint's Row IV's devs had to either cut it out of the Australian version of the game or get banned. I don't think it was necessary (it's true that the ratings board seems to be run by fussy old men who work on typewriters and think video games and rock are tools of the devil), but on the other hand that law single-handedly proves the GTA V petition false, as if it were true, you would not be able to legally purchase it in the country.
yahtzee's great fun when he's drunk.
Gabe really was spouting bullshit here, as an avid university student it kinda puts me off when someone tries to use the fact that they got a higher education to automatically win an argument. That is only to be used when actual factual knowledge is concerned, for example some people don't properly know what schizophrenic means so informing them about the actual definition is aright.
But here, good old Yahtzee brings up a good point. Part of a teachers job is to act in as a moral compass, which may or may not be implied in the work description. This is also something that parents generally rattle on about. Now with that in mind, if a teacher does something perceived to be immoral and the parents find out about it, as well as react to it and bring it to the principals attention. Then the teacher who did the act would be in a very bad position and could perhaps be fired, and at this point it wouldn't matter if the action was legal or illegal since the cause of the situation or firing would be based upon the parents and backed with the power they have to pull their children out of that school.
Seams more like Gabe got upset about this rather than think about the actual argument, perhaps it's also for the best to blatantly deny the proposition because of the implication it would mean to agree to it being a problem. Anyway don't act pretentious because you got upset and have a higher education, since higher education often involve thinking critically about your own and others knowledge or opinions.
"I know how Catholic schools work because I very nearly went to one" is still hilarious.
Gabe, you don't need to be an accredited scholar to present a possible scenario in which the things you've said in a public environment come back later to cause you issues.
There's legal restrictions on ending someone's employment. But if someone has a non-valid (As dictated by your local laws, union agreements and employment contract) reason for firing you, like a personal moral objection, then they're going to work around those restrictions to make it happen.
People that care about these things, however petty and stupid, will not just decide not to bother just because there's some obstacles in removing you. Well, they might, it's impossible to know with a purely hypothetical scenario. They might try and screw it up too, leaving you with a fat compensation for an illegal termination.
That said, I don't think you should have to constantly monitor yourself in case you might offend someone. It's impossible to live without offending someone. Better to just maintain a position you can justify to yourself and deal with the consequences as (/if) they come.
I think the best response to someone bringing the subject up is: "If it happens, I'll deal with it".
You really need to stop falling back on "You don't know anything about this" as an argument. Be more specific about what people are ignorant about, like the specifics of a teachers employment contract, and union mandated or legal restrictions in regards to terminations.
Pardon the lecture. It just bugs me when someone has a valid point (Or at least confidence in their position) but undermine it with poor rhetoric.
@@zombieslayer095 okay so first Gabriel in the time in this video came up was not a teacher has never experienced being a teacher and at such doesn't know that there are certain ways that a teacher can be fired because they are unfavored by the parents of students if parents want a teacher removed badly enough they will do things like pulling their children out of the school that he happens to be working in and if asked why they're doing this if they State I don't approve of him teaching my students if he has this that or the other view then it is possible that the school will take that as an excuse to fire him though it may be wrongful termination if they refuse to do that and more students are pulled out of their school they will start to lose funding from the government this will in turn mean that they have to start laying off workers and teachers if the very first person they happened to layoff is Gabriel then that will satisfy the parents there are ways around wrongful termination no matter what contract you sign does not wrongful termination if you are laid off because they cannot pay you anymore if they can't pay you it can be because of a myriad of things and they can chalk it up to those lack of funding is a reason to lay off a worker whether it be a teacher a chef or anything else in other words what he says can come back to bite him in the ass that is the point Yahtzee is making it is still in the realm of possibilities that's what he's pointing out Gabe is taking the opinion that because he hasn't read it in a lecture or heard it spoken by a teacher that it can't happen but there's this sneaky little thing that you're not told by your teachers and that is whether you are a student becoming a teacher or going into any profession and that's all the negative things that come with that job for example if you decide that you want to be a miner I guarantee you your first days will not be them explain to you in detail all the ways you can get injured and that is the same kind of rhetoric you can use when it comes to somebody trying to teach you on how to be a teacher they can explain to you and they won't explain to you all the ways you can be terminated wrongfully or justifiably because technically being laid off counts as a termination and they can find a way to lay you off if it's not in their budget to pay you and they can claim that budget restrictions is the reason they fired you and as long as that is on a written piece of paper it will be legitimate in the eyes of the law so long as they can prove that there was some kind of budget problems.
Gonna have to agree with Gabe on that last debate about prostitution. As much as I like him, Yahtzee can be annoying stubborn in arguments. Just my opinion.
On what? That the parents can complain and force the school to fire a teacher without having any legal reason? It has happen before you know. I despise such acts but idiocy shows up where it is unwarranted all the time in school policy from the naiv minds of parents.
A former Black metal musician who was going to teach guitar technics was prohibited giving a hour seminar at my music school becasue he proclaimed he was a Satanist in his youth, it was by some christian parantes.
This was in norway mind you, in a school that didn't even have a religious stand. Fucking sickening
Aw that's cute Yahtzee cares about Gabe :D
Sonic Boom review for laughs?
Best Wednesday ever is coming up!
Luigi's slow floaty jump is actually a bonus since it gives you improved jump correction time. You can treat it just like Peach's float, and you get higher jump and faster grab on top of it.
You always want to pick Toad for the last level of each world, since it's just a boss fight and he's the best at that.
Whoah. I just realized... your the same yahtzee that made trilbys notes... God dayum. You just keep getting more awesome by the second.
I seem to be the only person who actually likes and agrees with Gabe most of the time. Yahtzee is great but he's incredibly douchey at times.
You really aren't.
even in the legendary smash TV debate i think gabe had a point and yahtzee was just being intolerant and thus intolerable.
typically people who are right are interpreted as douchey
because the truth is hard to swallow
The 2014 tier discourse is strong with this one.
Jesus christ, this is so fucking cringe watching it now.
@@LOLquendoTV it's fine, you're also stuck in your 2014 cringe
@@asdaasdsa lmfao okay
I feel like I'm 5 again and my parents are arguing and I can't decide who is right.
mommy daddy, stop fighting
More shipping material. Make up sex!
I feel like theres gonna be two week break again.
Thanatos388 Annnd now it's Monday.
AnotherPostcard Yep, they'll make up before next week and say they were busy or something...but my Sunday was ruined.
I think Yahtzee failing at the bombs was worse than the argument
56:51-57:01 is where Gabe and Yahtz predict the Jack the Ripper DLC almost perfectly. (Cept the hookers were Assassins I think)
Gabriel: Prostitution is legal, they can’t fire me for using a prostitute.
Also Gabriel: I was on cocaine at the time.
So, did Gabe ever get hired as a teacher? Lol
No
Jesus Gabriel, you don't half talk a lot of bollocks sometimes. Yahtzee's point was totally valid, and his perceived lack of insider knowledge about the hiring and firing in the education system had absolutely no bearing on said validity - and you know it.
"As long as you're convinced that it doesn't matter and will never matter" That's probably Yahtzee's biggest point and he just glossed over it. Just because he can do something now, doesn't mean laws can't get changed and bite him in the ass in the future.
"Hi Gabe. I understand you've said some things that are unsavory in videos from several years ago. Oh, and you're being fired for completely unrelated reasons."
"What? B-b-but the system! You can't do that!"
"Can and did. Bye now."
Actual teacher here. Or educational field worker or whatever the fuck Gabe thinks I am.
Internet presence is something you are supposed to police as a teacher. Like it or not, you're a public figure. Students have Google and parents monitor their kids. Yahtzee's scenario is completely plausible. To think this won't happen cause you plan to teach poor kids just shows casual contempt for those communities.
Can you be fired over it? Probably not. It's hard to fire teachers. But you'll end up in union mediation and probably get yourself into sensitivity training if you try to pull the 'it's legal' card.
But what's more likely is that, on account of the fact that more administrators know how to use Google on their big hires, Gabriel will not get jobs he otherwise might have got. Teaching is a competitive field and no admin wants to have a teacher that triggers union mediation.
But even if you accept Gabriel's premise that no harm would be done, no sane teacher wants to set themselves up for any kind of parental grievance. That's a huge waste of time and can go on for months.
Anyhow, the lesson is: Don't listen to Gabriel, kids. If you want a job like teaching, then keep your internet life and your personal life far away from the students.
Yes Gabriel, it *is* possible that something you've done in the past (that a school might object to) could result in you being fired. You're just relying on the point that they *shouldn't* be able to.
0:41 You always use Luigi because he's the "best", if you know what I mean ;)
Yeah, Yahtzee. Don't think that we've all forgotten your fantasies of stroking Luigi's moustache and having him tease you in a leather cat suit. They may just be jokes, but behind every joke there's a reality.
25:05 For example, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword has a re-imagining of the story of Jesus Christ, with Zelda as the incarnation of a deity who must pass away before reawakening and blessing the world. That was really cool, even though it simply gave purpose to the questionable gameplay.
Haha "behind every joke there's a reality" hahaha. Makes me want to crack open my psychology textbook again.
I never thought about Skyward Sword like that...
*Mind blown*
Watch out for Suggestion though.
Oh lord, the argument at the end, what a shame. Some kid thinks he's untouchable and gets indignant. For anyone wanting to skip the bickering that shouldn't have any place in a video between two people whose ethos is in their intelligence, eloquence, and graciousness in speaking to one another, just stop watching at 55:00.
I can only hope it doesn't happen again.
Holy shit, undertale became a sonic-level fandom
Not true at all
I can actually feel the audience butt clenching at what Gabe was saying. I am sure I'm not the first to point it out but just because you had education in something does not mean you understand every aspect of it or that the information given to you is perfectly accurate. Teachers and professors are capable of being wrong and while I agree that a professors opinion on their field of study should be held above that of someone who is not directly trained in it, dismissing the opinions of people who are not traditionally trained in something is absurd. I think Gabe puts too much stock in the Education System OVER any other form of education, like self education. Basically No, you cannot be fired from a public school system because of your person life so long as what you do is not illegal. However, you can be pressured into being fired by having your classes restricted, parents can request that their students not be taught by you, and if enough parents make that request you can be fired on the grounds of, and I quote: "a lack of trust in the professor's abilities to teach and deliver unbiased information to their students". As such, yes, teachers DO have to worry about their private lives becoming public. Why do you think that teachers in the USA who are gay often times hide it? My music teacher in middle school had to wait 12 god damned years before the community was accepting enough to openly accept him when he came out as gay.
I find it incredibly naive that gabriel thinks that influence of parents can't get him in trouble.
Gabe really doesn't know what he is talking about; the teaching profession is one of the most heavily scrutinised positions there is. Ones actions and beliefs both past and present can bite you in the arse; especially if parents catch wind of what they consider to be in their eyes questionable activities. The legality of Prostitution doesn't mean one iota; many parents will still not want that person teaching their children and thus will promptly lobby to have that teacher removed from office.
Take Cristy Nicole for example who got fired from her position at a Texas school because in the past she had modelled for Playboy magazine. Despite being perfectly legal to have posed for the shoot in the past, some parents complained to the school and subsequently she was fired from her position. All I can say is if Gabriel wishes to pursue a career in teaching; he should really think about what he says in these videos because these words may later on prove to be the death knell of a budding career before it even starts!
***** So I'm the bad guy for showing concern for Gabe's future career prospects? For your information I'm from the UK; where teachers are consistently scrutinised. Also states has an "e" in it, and actually has a "y" at the end. I recommend you brush up on your typing skills before you throw fail around at people; because as it stands I would argue you are the failure.
“Everything becomes easier when you’re a little bit drunk.”
*immediately throws a door potion of a cliff*
Watching Yahtzee try to clear that last room... Ugh... That's a basic puzzle, you grab the furthest bomb you can and work your way in, it's not rocket science.
I cant wait for Gabe to get a job and realize he doesnt actually know shit about teaching yet either
Just a point in regards to the big school argument, Yahtzee's point is quite valid as not too long ago there was a woman in America who lost her job after they found out she had been in adult films 20 years prior to taking up teaching. Not illegal, and of course 2 whole decades since it even happened, but she lost her job because of parent's complaining about it.
Gabe loves to quote Twain, yet seems to forget a popular saying by twain.-"Higher Education consists mainly in what we have unlearned"
Drunk Yahtzee vs. Sober Gabe. This never gets old.
So question for listeners, considering each episode of "Drown Out" covers current events how much would you recommend going back and watching the first stuff Yahtzee and Gabe did? Need something to listen to while I go about my business.
I think it's worth it for the banter alone, plus they haven't started discussing news until fairly recently.
Ghost81 Cool, it was the news part that was stopping me, thanks dude.
Yeah, the first let's play's have virtually no news in them. I heartily recommend "Alex Kidd in High Tech World" and "Normality", perhaps the two best ones.
And I don't really recommend "Operation Stealth", "Curse of Enchantia" and "Flashback". I mean, I've watched all of them multiple times, but they're pretty subpar.
"Taking their fucking point of view as being the objective from which everyone is trying to differ. That there is a multiplicity of points of view negates your ability to state that one occurence is producing..."
Oh yeah, no waffling here.
Gabe, I think Yahtzee is right. A past of drug use and the use of prostitutes (even just once) could well come back to haunt you in a teaching profession. Although I think this could really benefit any teacher, as it opens up a world of experience that teenage/college age students could be dealing with, and someone with a bit of first hand experience could be invaluable to them dealing with similar situation of their own. BUT we live in a very conservative world (just look at who is in power in Australia...) and a lot of parents might feel very uncomfortable knowing that someone who has had a past like this is teaching their kids. Also, if these stories got out in a school, they could be warped and embellished and could be used against you. It might be worth culling the videos where you discuss these topics when you come to look for a job. Having a completely neutral or even better, no online presence at all is often the best for people in teaching or similar occupations as nothing can be dredged up used against you.
The ending of this video is uncomfortable to listen to and yet I can't stop listening.
Does anybody know which episode of Lets Drown Out features an anecdote about how Yahtzee came up with the idea of Mogworld? I think it was something about World Of Warcraft…
I think it's the Condemned one
willtommo13 Found it, it's from "Let's Drown Out... Smash TV" at 50:20. Hope it helps.
Great!! I wanted to suggest an episode to a friend to get him into the series, and since this one contains probably the funniest moment yet I'll link him to it…
Thanks.
19:57 its like the Australian card that was suggested during the Howard gov, we didnt want to hand over our personal movements and info like that back then, but we are more than happy to hand it to google/apple/microsoft in exchange of a smart phone.
Gabe thinking parents will be fine that a teacher previously used prostitutes while currently there is a principal who has 19,000 signatures to have him removed due to him liking Iron Maiden, Gabe was being so niaive here
@@natsume-hime2473 long message
I got mortician and comedian for career choices.. Wasn't sure how I felt about that..
Sounds like you'd be great at black humour
Calum Mccabe I wish, I'm just an asshole..
It can be an all inclusive package, you have them dying with laughter and then you prepare them for the great beyond
***** Shut up and take my like!
They go together better than you might expect. The purest comedy comes from "dark places" & deep self loathing. I can't remember which comedians have said that, but if Patton Oswalt has ever touched on it, then he'd be the best possible source.
Gabe is making an argument from authority. Authority has no bearing on whether something is true. If parents do not like you, you will be fired. Period. Not for whatever they dislike you for, but for some- any other reason, and you will have no way to prove that that was why you got fired.
His argument wasn't "You don't know because you're not a teacher", it was "you don't know because you have no knowledge on this topic". It's less "you can't be a film critic because you don't make films" and more "your criticisms are invalid because you know literally nothing about films".
You can't be fired because parents don't like you. That isn't a valid reason for termination. Gabe was arguing on what is valid termination.
Is Gabe using his authority to shorten the conversation? Yes. But its not an argument from authority.
gregheffly Yep Gabe shot down Yahtzee's argument pretty fast and Yahtzee got pissed off and kept pushing a statement.
If a teacher was fired for doing something legal well before his employment started, he would have lawyers camping out side his house trying to pick up a case.
Pink Wired Chicken Yep, Yahtzee often makes "wins" arguments from consistently barraging the opponent. More than once Gabe been right but has been shutup by Yahtzee.
gregheffly I'm okay with that, because Gabe believes himself to be outside of the human race sometimes.
That was a delightful argument towards the end there. Usually I end up siding with one of them over the other, but they were both being fantastically bullheaded this time around.
The highlight for me was when Gabriel alluded to something he said earlier about the chances of him getting into trouble being "unlikely" -- only he never actually said that, as far as I can tell; he spent most of the argument denying any possibility of trouble, which was the root of the argument in the first place!
Also, "What do you know about X?" (in this case, education) is a really diabolical question, in my mind. It provides no starting point or end point. A person can be quite familiar with a given subject and still not be prepared to present a thorough rundown of all their knowledge appertaining to it at the drop of a hat. I, at least, would have trouble doing it.
Yahtzee started it off with a fun little dialogue but Gabe took it a little too seriously. I thought it was going to be a fun little audio puppet show of sorts. :'(
I'm starting to come for the Yahtzee vs Gayb arguments.
Ghost81
best.
I do find it interesting that Yahtzee is talking about how there isn't sexism in games, and yet he has called out at least a dozen games (Metriod other M, Wet, Bayonetta, Lollypop Chainsaw, Call of Duty: Ghosts,, Ninja Gaidan, Wind Waker, Metal Gear Solid (all of them), Infamous, Killer is Dead, Beyond two Souls, all the mario games, ride to hell retribution, Tome Raider (all of them), Black Ops 2, Duke Nukem Forever, Resident Evil 4/5/Revelation, Gears of War 2/3, the first Witcher, Cathrine, Mortal Kombat, Heavy Rain, Dante's Inferno, all the UnCharted games, Ctrl-Alt-Del) for their depiction of female characters, and praised Sands of Time, Shovel Knight, Portal for their depiction of female characters. Not to mention he has spent a great deal of time calling out COD, Resident Evil 5 and Uncharted for racism.
I did, that doesn't answer anything.
i think the main thing thing is theirs a difference between depiction of women and being sexist. Sexist is going trying to offend and undermine the other race. Their is no way video game devs go out of their way to do that in this day and age. Yahtzee for those games criticized the depiction of women but never called them sexist. You can't call the idea of something sexist cause everyone becomes offended for different things. You can however criticize poor female characters and praise those who do it well. The same thing can be said for the racist games as their is a difference between how the race is presented and written to just being racist.
Where are you getting this definition of sexism?
Gnomelord0
First of all WTF is with that list, Wind Waker Sexist???
Second the guy didn't say there wasn't sexism in video games, he just saying that in GTA 5 everyone looks horrible men and women a like. Are there sexist thing you can do in that game, OF COURSE, but the game does tell you be violent against specifically women nor does it reward you for being violent exclusively to women.
1) Take it up with Yahtzee, in his review of the game he pointed out how after Terra becomes Zelda a once active and engaging character gets put in a dress and just sits around doing nothing until the end
2) I am not talking about his views on GTA, I am talking about when yahtzee said that there isn't very much sexism in video games. He said that in the video before last as well.
Congratulations Yahtzee, this isn't exactly what you meant but it's damn close. Many companies have began to require the social media accounts of their employees to review behavior and fire people based on it, border control between Canada and the United States has looked into something similar (study at your leisure) and many employees were fired after reviewing their chat logs in League of Legends- point being, your actions and behavior can reflect poorly on you in the future and cause you to lose your job or never get it in the first place. Gabe was trying to make an argument that Yahtzee was wrong because he wasn't well versed in education but that was more elitist self glorifying than argumentative.
1:07:00
7 years late, but Yahtzee should have brought up coding a game, but this validates Gabe’s point even more.
Gabriel never did get fired.
Because he was never hired. He's a useless welfare bum to this day.
Gabe's faith in the system could move mountains... of pink slips his way.
Not really. In public education he' d have the protection of Australian law, the teacher's union, and the fact that he's willing to take positions no one else wants. The worst that would be done to him is being transferred. Firing teachers in the US is hard, in Australia it's the next best thing to impossible.
@@natsume-hime2473 If recent years have taught us anything, it's that no one's protected from people overstepping their authority (especially in Australia).
I dont wanna side with Yahtz on this argument because I manlove you both. But I have worked in education, and trust me, you're always on thin ice. At least here in France. No idea how it works in australia, but I cant imagine people being less judgemental
That's just parents in general.... Most of them are terrible hypocrites being ridiculously suspicious towards any other person who might be an influence / indoctrinate their child towards certain things they don't like. They haven't learned that lesson yet that their children won't always be perfect clay to be modeled into a better version of themselves.
From my experience people are less judgemental in Australia
The thing about "if they're wrong they'll condemn themselves" is that there are too many ignorant people who won't know any better and give enough power to it to make it problematic.
people like you would rather treat those "ignorant people" like sheep and make them ignorant of ignorance instead of solving their ignorance all together. an ignorant society is an unhealthy society, regardless of what you're ignorant of. the attitude that you have some kind of special authority over information is one held by many failed and failing authoritiarian regimes.
yan-Deriction You sure jumped the gun there buddy. EHKOS Vaklam was just tryed to disprove the point not solve the problem, and you can't assume he hasn't tryed solveing the problem going of a single sentence.
Take or example person 1 says "racism will go away if you ignore it" than person 2 disagrees and says "If people don't try and stop it won't go away"
You can't assume that person 2 never has done anything to stop racism just by one comment.
Children "did you use a prostitute Mr. Gabriel"
Gabriel "Yes but you see I was coked up at the time"
Ah the Rob Ford defence.
This is probably the best "Let's Drown Out" you guys have done
How could Yahtzee get so pissed from one bottle of cider?
It might have said "cider" on the bottle but who knows what was really in it?
Can and you could clearly hear it being opened
Definitely hard cider
"They can't legally fire me for using a prostitute"
Oh Gabe, Gabe, you're so sweetly naive. As Martin says, there's a difference between pretext and reason. They could legally fire you in any one of a thousand other ways using a pretext like 'unprofessional attitude' or some such nonsense. You made a dig at the 'University of Life,' but that's how things work in the real world. People get fired over the most trivial shit but that's obviously not what the employer writes on the pink slip.
I've just pissed myself laughing. More drunk Yahtzee please.
I always say, the key to the perfect marriage is being able to laugh while having an argument.
You guys are perfect.
11:18 and 11:31 had me in tears. Though I certainly hope that particular part of this Drown Out doesn't make it to next week's Extra or Zero Punctuation like Drown Out usually does o_o