Thanks for posting this. In 1970 while training at USAF pilot training I over shot the runway in a T-37. I thought why not add a little more rudder. The IP quickly intervened and asked me if I ever saw a rudder roll. He said I was about to find out while at less than one thousand feet. A lesson I will not forget.
BruceAirFlying from the commercial pilot videos I’ve watched they seem to spend more time training to prevent the stalls from happening where GE seems to spend more time in stall recovery training.
@@patjohn775 Pilots who train in and fly light general aviation aircraft practice a variety of tasks related to stalls. We learn about and practice slow flight (flight just above the critical angle of attack), power-on (departure/takeoff) stalls; power-off (approach/landing) stalls, accelerated (turning) stalls, and so forth. In jets and large transport aircraft, pilots typically practice approaches to (imminent) stalls. Fully developed stalls in large aircraft, aircraft with T-tails and/or swept wings, etc. result in high rates of descent and other issues that can lead to a loss of control. Those aircraft are also usually equipped with stall-prevention devices, such as stick-pushers, to prevent a full stall from developing. So full stalls in such aircraft typically aren't part of routine training.
ellcellent video! i've heard from many instructor that skid can be very dangerous at low level, but i never see a real life demo! thank you for the video!!
Thank you for great and educative videos. Low hours PPL here. It is amazing how the ball was almost centered during skidding turn, just before stall/spin ! I always glimpse at the ball during turns and "stepping onto the ball" to keep the aircraft balanced. After watching the video I think I should be looking more at the >attitude< rather than ball (and speedo), i.e. keep nose slightly below horizon, or is it a stick position ? Personally, I am happy to be faster in turns with slight nose down, then do slips and energy management when straight and level. Also some instructors remind me to fly sharp perfect 90deg circuits, which I see as a risk, especially when low base to final. Thanks again!
Very interesting. It is great to have the pilot explain in detail what is happening as it happens. And more importantly just how much altitude is lost during that manoeuvre. Scary.
I am in CFI training really beating myself up over aerodynamics specifically whats happening in a stall/cross cooridinated stall or slip and skidding stall and this video helped a lot. Thank you. Blue skies and tailwinds
What does rudder do to help you turn when you are at 45 degrees? Seems like rudder wouldn’t help you turn much unless you’re more level. I don’t fly so forgive my question if it’s dumb
Most pilots are taught (correctly) to limit the bank angle during turns close to the ground, as in the traffic pattern. Usually, the limit is about 30 degrees of bank. (It's a common misconception that bank angle increases stall speed; in fact load factor is what drives the increase in stall speed. Bank angle and load factor are correlated in a level turn, but that's a discussion for another day.) The video demonstrates what can happen, for example, if you overshoot the extended runway centerline. You don't want to increase the bank angle, so you add rudder in an attempt to increase the rate of turn. But if you hold that skidding turn, the bank will increase, the nose will drop, and you'll probably pull back on the yoke or stick. That's when a skidding stall can occur, as you see in the video.
Good demo. Sadly, I lost a friend several years ago as he tried to turn back to the airport following an engine failure at 600 feet or so in his very heavily loaded and highly modified RV8. (Rocket???).
Could not hear the airspeeds leading up to the first spin. Would you reply when you can please. And no stall horn, or other indication? Could this be called an accelerated stall? Good production and thank you for posting.
You probably can't hear the stall horn because it's not tied in to the intercom. The indicated airspeed is really irrelevant. The stall occurs when the AoA exceeds the critical AoA. The important clues to the impending stall and departure are the ones that I call out--the buffet, the accelerated track of the nose relative to the bank angle, etc. Any stall that occurs above the power-off-landing-config stall speed is an accelerated stall. However, most of the time we demonstrate accelerated stalls while turning. Turns are by definition an acceleration--a change in velocity--which is vector quantity that has both magnitude and direction. I have several videos that demonstrate accelerated stalls.
@@BruceAirFlying : Thank you Bruce. I was curious what the speeds were, and how much airspeed decreased on your second call out on airspeed. Again, on the first demonstration. Sounded to me like 80 and then 73. Does it really not matter? If you're at 100 kias, wouldn't the airplane be less likely to stall in the same configurations you demonstrated?
Higher speed usually means larger margin from the stall. But as I demonstrate in other videos (see my Stalls and Spins playlist), you stall when the AoA exceeds the critical angle of attack, regardless of airspeed, power setting, pitch attitude relative to the horizon, etc.
@@BruceAirFlying : You, and those who truly strive to be the best and care enough to share are the best of aviation !! You are precisely correct. For whatever reason, I became fixated on the AIRSPEED in the video, which is irrelevant as you pointed out. A good example of why we need to see these things and practice them even when we think we know it all or have seen it all. We have not. I want to thank you again for taking time to accurately explain. After flying straight lines for so long and worrying about precision in the clouds, a person's stick skills need attention because they decay. Time for some tail wheel. : )
What about steep descending turns? Does that fact that you are descending with the nose down keep the stall speed from creeping up? It seems the issue is partly people using the rudder to increase the turn rate rather than just banking more and letting the nose down more. I'm asking because I see a lot about steep descending turns being best for emergency decents over the proposed landing area with an engine out. Is it dangerous to be between 45-60 degrees if you are descending at 1.4 x VS1
Great video thanks. Been years since I solo'd in gliders so I have forgotten much I'm sure but I wonder if you can clarify something please. I only fly RC nowadays and I saw a video recently where the RC pilot was explaining that a flat turn using wings level and obviously rudder would enable the aircraft to fly slower without stalling than a banking turn would. I'm unsure if he was putting in opposite aileron or not but I think maybe he was wrong? In a right turn for example, wouldn't the right rudder mean that that wing is hitting the airflow even slower than in a banked turn and thus more likely to stall? I appreciate in either case the inside wing is turning a smaller circle anyway but im struggling to find an answer to this. Any input appreciated. 👍
An RC airplane may be able to do flat turns, but that's a terrible way to turn a real airplane. I have no idea how the variables of drag during a skid, holding deflected controls, etc. affect stall speed in such a maneuver.
Excellent video. I am training for my CFI checkride, and we have to demonstrate a cross-controlled stall, which to me seems like they want to see a slipping stall (like you demonstrated), left turn/right rudder/stick back. Does that make sense? Or should I be prepared to demonstrate the skidding stall?
See Chapter 4 in the "Airplane Flying Handbook" for the description of the cross-control stall. See also the PTS (or forthcoming ACS) for the flight instructor-airplane certificate. ...Before performing this stall, establish a safe altitude for entry and recovery in the event of a spin, and clear the area of other traffic while slowly retarding the throttle. The next step is to lower the landing gear (if equipped with retractable gear), close the throttle, and maintain altitude until the airspeed approaches the normal glide speed. To avoid the possibility of exceeding the airplane’s limitations, do not extend the flaps. While the gliding attitude and airspeed are being established, the airplane should be retrimmed. Once the glide is stabilized, the airplane should be rolled into a medium-banked turn to simulate a final approach turn that overshoots the centerline of the runway. During the turn, smoothly apply excessive rudder pressure in the direction of the turn but hold the bank constant by applying opposite aileron pressure. At the same time, increase back elevator pressure to keep the nose from lowering. All of these control pressures should be increased until the airplane stalls. When the stall occurs, recover by applying nose-down elevator pressure to reduce the AOA until the stall warning has been eliminated, remove the excessive rudder input and level the wings, and apply power as needed to return to the desired flightpath.
As the Airplane Flying Handbook notes, "To set up the entry for a straight-ahead power-off stall, airplanes equipped with flaps or retractable landing gear should be in the landing configuration." See Chapter 4, p. 4-8 (www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/)
Good video and thank you , I routinely practice slow flight and stalls in a spin prohibited aircraft. We always practice in utility category. Question: what difference can I expect in a given g.a. aircraft if a stall happens in normal category?
You should follow the guidance available in the AFM or POH for your aircraft. Fly with an instructor who is familiar with your airplane and review the information in the latest edition of the Airplane Flying Handbook, especially Chapter 5: www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/
I chqed my 4th addition Canadian flight training manual,,although I may have missed it,I see very little on out of w&b stalls. A bit more in your faa version. Sorry for the delay in acknowledging your reply and thank you very much for your time.
Out of W&B limits is one thing. Stalls in the normal or utility category are another. Flying outside of W&B limits isn't legal. Your POH/AFM will include any limits on stalls in either category--spins may or may not be approved, as you noted.
@@BruceAirFlying my bad sir, I should have written ,flying with a shifted w&b,into the normal category. I as well agree, out of w&b flight is not only illegal,,but nuts . There is no substitute for hands on flight training ..but I do enjoy your channel.
What type of aircraft are you flying? I doubt there's a significant difference in basic stall characteristics between the normal and utility categories. Airplanes like the C172 are approved for spins only when operated in the utility category, but developed spins are different beast from basic stalls.
I have watched videos stating the stall in the skid was the killer but the stall in the slip really took a bit more work to spin and was not so risky. Another words you would have to ignore the stall in the slip to spin but in the skid you have no chance.. This video made both look equally dangerous. Is it true that forward and side slips are generally considered safe and skids are not.
See the Airplane Flying Handbook (p.8-12): "Unlike skids, however, if an airplane in a slip is made to stall, it displays very little of the yawing tendency that causes a skidding stall to develop into a spin. The airplane in a slip may do little more than tend to roll into a wings level attitude. In fact, in some airplanes stall characteristics may even be improved." So, yes, stalls from slips generally are more benign than those from a skid. But a slip involves yaw, and a spin requires a stall and yaw. My demonstration emphasizes that a stall from a slip can still surprise you. If you don't immediately reduce angle of attack and instead allow the stall to develop, you experience an "over the top" spin entry. www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/
I've used the side slip technique many times as a quick fix in order to lose altitude (=without gaining speed) when too high on final ("hot&high"), it never felt unsafe and the airspeed upon exit of the sideslip usually was about the same as upon entry. Now after seeing this video I'm really surprised how quickly the bank angle can change to the complete opposite (or even flip you over into an inverted attitude) when you end up stalling the aircraft coming from a side slip. That's really scary and looks like a death sentence if it happens 500ft above the ground. I'm aware that in a slip airspeed indication isn't reliable because the airflow over the pitot tube comes at an oblique angle, i.e. you don't really know how fast you are until you exit the slip (which is why I was taught back in my days in flights school to forget about the airspeed indicator during a side slip and focus on the pitch of the nose towards the horizon as the more valuable information). When it comes to stall characteristics, do you generally advise against side slipping on final or do you still think it's an acceptable method in the toolbox as long as you don't change the pitch (assuming that you enter the side slip at or above Vref)? I'm not sure how much you need to (unintentionally) pull on the stick/yoke until it becomes dangerous, because I never practiced an intentional side slip stall (also because in some aircraft intentional spins are prohibited even at "safe" altitude). Of course, any prediction will also depend on the duration of the slip (=time to lose forward momentum), so I'm aware that an exact answer is impossible (and safety related advise over the internet is problematic), but still I'm interested in your general opinion. THANKS FOR MAKING THE VIDEO !
Forward slips and side slips (aerodynamically the same, but used for different purposes--see Intentional Slips in Chapter 8 of the Airplane Flying Handbook), are common maneuvers. Every time you land in a crosswind, you are (or should be) in a sideslip during the final stages of the landing. Forward slips are a tool most often used these days when practicing simulated engine-out approaches to a confined area or to ensure that you can land on the available runway. Student pilots are required to demonstrate basic competency in slips before they can solo, you probably have to demonstrate them during a practical test, and I require my flight review customers to demonstrate slips. Some aircraft have limitations on the duration of slips (usually related to fuel supply issues); see your POH or AFM for those details. The demonstrations my videos that show departures from slips and skids are intended to show the effects of stalls when the airplane is yawing. If you're uncomfortable with slips, get with a flight instructor who is familiar with your aircraft and practice.
Forward slips and side slips (aerodynamically the same, but used for different purposes--see Intentional Slips in Chapter 8 of the Airplane Flying Handbook), are common maneuvers. Every time you land in a crosswind, you are (or should be) in a sideslip during the final stages of the landing. Forward slips are a tool most often used these days when practicing simulated engine-out approaches to a confined area or to ensure that you can land on the available runway. Student pilots are required to demonstrate basic competency in slips before they can solo, you probably have to demonstrate them during a practical test, and I require my flight review customers to demonstrate slips. Some aircraft have limitations on the duration of slips (usually related to fuel supply issues); see your POH or AFM for those details. The demonstrations my videos that show departures from slips and skids are intended to show the effects of stalls when the airplane is yawing. If you're uncomfortable with slips, get with a flight instructor who is familiar with your aircraft and practice.
Hey, thanks for your answer / for taking the time. I'm a PPL-A pilot and had my own aircraft (a Beech A23-A) for several years (no max slip duration explicitly mentioned in the POH, but that plane was built in 1966). Personally, I always felt very comfortable with slipping. My concern was more about margins and a potential false perception of safety. But your crosswind landing argument is a valid point! You're right, we slip all the time anyways and there isn't really an alternative (I personally dislike 'airliner style' crab landings and am more comfortable with the wing low method / with bank into the wind).
When you stalled in a slip it looked over exaggerated. Isn't it true that if you stall in a slip the outside wing will stall first causing it to drop and bring you back to a more wings level position however if you stall in a skid the inside wing will stall first ( because the fuselage is blocking that wing ) and cause that wing to drop causing a roll over or spin?
See the Airplane Flying Handbook (p.8-12): "Unlike skids, however, if an airplane in a slip is made to stall, it displays very little of the yawing tendency that causes a skidding stall to develop into a spin. The airplane in a slip may do little more than tend to roll into a wings level attitude. In fact, in some airplanes stall characteristics may even be improved." So, yes, stalls from slips generally are more benign than those from a skid. But a slip involves yaw, and a spin requires a stall and yaw. My demonstration emphasizes that a stall from a slip can still surprise you. If you don't immediately reduce angle of attack and allow the stall to develop, you experience an "over the top" spin entry.
Each aircraft has individual characteristics. How quickly it recovers from upsets such as those shown in the video depends on many factors, including the aircraft design, how it's loaded, how the upset occurred, and the pilot's control inputs. Demonstrating these events in an aerobatic airplane allows me to show what happens without exceeding any limitations of the aircraft.
Slips vs Skids and Stalls InTheHangar Ep 48 DPE Joe Casey returns to talk about the dangerous difference between slipping an airplane and skidding an airplane. One is a useful tool, In this show Joe advises that in Slipping It is not possible to spin. But your demo shows otherwise ?
A spin requires two elements: A stall and yaw. Both slips and skids provide both ingredients. Stalls from slips, however, are generally more benign than stalls from skids. My demo, however, shows that the "over the top" roll (induced by the yaw) in a slip can startle pilots. Slips are a wonderful tool, and pilots should spend more time learning about and practicing them.
I used aileron as necessary to maintain the bank angle. The Airplane Flying Handbook has a good description of what typically happens during a skidding, gliding turn: "As the airplane skids, the bank will increase. This often alarms the beginning pilot when it occurs close to the ground, and the pilot may respond by applying aileron pressure toward the outside of the turn to stop the bank. At the same time, the rudder forces the nose down and the pilot may apply back-elevator pressure to hold it up. If allowed to progress, this situation may result in a fully developed cross-control condition." A similar situation develops in a slip, which begins with crossed controls. But the key point of this video is the effect of yaw, not aileron deflection.
Thanks for posting this. In 1970 while training at USAF pilot training I over shot the runway in a T-37. I thought why not add a little more rudder. The IP quickly intervened and asked me if I ever saw a rudder roll. He said I was about to find out while at less than one thousand feet. A lesson I will not forget.
Never saw a slipping stall before. THANK YOU!
I was having a hard time painting the picture of skidding and spinning stalls during landings in my head. Not anymore. Thank you!
Whoa! Super-scary. Every trainee pilot should see this. Great demo - thanks for sharing. 😊👍
I am a licensed private pilot. I am so grateful for your visual demonstration! I love aerodynamics. Best demonstration.
You know what... you might have saved a life. Way to go.
he really has, i've no doubt. someone up there will remember this in the situation.
This is what you trust ur training and skills over fear.
800ft alt lost despite you expecting the stall AND recovery immediately - incredible. Scary if you think you may be at 600 for base to final
That's why it's important to learn about these situations so that you can prevent the stall from occurring at low altitude.
BruceAirFlying from the commercial pilot videos I’ve watched they seem to spend more time training to prevent the stalls from happening where GE seems to spend more time in stall recovery training.
@@patjohn775 Pilots who train in and fly light general aviation aircraft practice a variety of tasks related to stalls. We learn about and practice slow flight (flight just above the critical angle of attack), power-on (departure/takeoff) stalls; power-off (approach/landing) stalls, accelerated (turning) stalls, and so forth. In jets and large transport aircraft, pilots typically practice approaches to (imminent) stalls. Fully developed stalls in large aircraft, aircraft with T-tails and/or swept wings, etc. result in high rates of descent and other issues that can lead to a loss of control. Those aircraft are also usually equipped with stall-prevention devices, such as stick-pushers, to prevent a full stall from developing. So full stalls in such aircraft typically aren't part of routine training.
It’s good to see the wingtip view and grasp how quickly and suddenly the wing drops and aircraft falls like a rock ..
ellcellent video! i've heard from many instructor that skid can be very dangerous at low level, but i never see a real life demo! thank you for the video!!
Thank you for great and educative videos. Low hours PPL here. It is amazing how the ball was almost centered during skidding turn, just before stall/spin ! I always glimpse at the ball during turns and "stepping onto the ball" to keep the aircraft balanced. After watching the video I think I should be looking more at the >attitude< rather than ball (and speedo), i.e. keep nose slightly below horizon, or is it a stick position ? Personally, I am happy to be faster in turns with slight nose down, then do slips and energy management when straight and level. Also some instructors remind me to fly sharp perfect 90deg circuits, which I see as a risk, especially when low base to final. Thanks again!
Very interesting. It is great to have the pilot explain in detail what is happening as it happens. And more importantly just how much altitude is lost during that manoeuvre. Scary.
I am in CFI training really beating myself up over aerodynamics specifically whats happening in a stall/cross cooridinated stall or slip and skidding stall and this video helped a lot. Thank you. Blue skies and tailwinds
Those things are way more aggressive than what I thought they were. That video really cleared it up why they're so dangerous (Skids).
Excellent demo. Puts it all together. Many thanks !!!!
Great video and lesson
This should be required viewing for all student pilots.
Great demonstration, sir.
What does rudder do to help you turn when you are at 45 degrees? Seems like rudder wouldn’t help you turn much unless you’re more level. I don’t fly so forgive my question if it’s dumb
Most pilots are taught (correctly) to limit the bank angle during turns close to the ground, as in the traffic pattern. Usually, the limit is about 30 degrees of bank. (It's a common misconception that bank angle increases stall speed; in fact load factor is what drives the increase in stall speed. Bank angle and load factor are correlated in a level turn, but that's a discussion for another day.) The video demonstrates what can happen, for example, if you overshoot the extended runway centerline. You don't want to increase the bank angle, so you add rudder in an attempt to increase the rate of turn. But if you hold that skidding turn, the bank will increase, the nose will drop, and you'll probably pull back on the yoke or stick. That's when a skidding stall can occur, as you see in the video.
Good demo. Sadly, I lost a friend several years ago as he tried to turn back to the airport following an engine failure at 600 feet or so in his very heavily loaded and highly modified RV8. (Rocket???).
Could not hear the airspeeds leading up to the first spin. Would you reply when you can please. And no stall horn, or other indication? Could this be called an accelerated stall? Good production and thank you for posting.
You probably can't hear the stall horn because it's not tied in to the intercom. The indicated airspeed is really irrelevant. The stall occurs when the AoA exceeds the critical AoA. The important clues to the impending stall and departure are the ones that I call out--the buffet, the accelerated track of the nose relative to the bank angle, etc. Any stall that occurs above the power-off-landing-config stall speed is an accelerated stall. However, most of the time we demonstrate accelerated stalls while turning. Turns are by definition an acceleration--a change in velocity--which is vector quantity that has both magnitude and direction. I have several videos that demonstrate accelerated stalls.
@@BruceAirFlying : Thank you Bruce. I was curious what the speeds were, and how much airspeed decreased on your second call out on airspeed. Again, on the first demonstration. Sounded to me like 80 and then 73. Does it really not matter? If you're at 100 kias, wouldn't the airplane be less likely to stall in the same configurations you demonstrated?
Higher speed usually means larger margin from the stall. But as I demonstrate in other videos (see my Stalls and Spins playlist), you stall when the AoA exceeds the critical angle of attack, regardless of airspeed, power setting, pitch attitude relative to the horizon, etc.
@@BruceAirFlying : You, and those who truly strive to be the best and care enough to share are the best of aviation !! You are precisely correct. For whatever reason, I became fixated on the AIRSPEED in the video, which is irrelevant as you pointed out. A good example of why we need to see these things and practice them even when we think we know it all or have seen it all. We have not. I want to thank you again for taking time to accurately explain. After flying straight lines for so long and worrying about precision in the clouds, a person's stick skills need attention because they decay. Time for some tail wheel. : )
What about steep descending turns? Does that fact that you are descending with the nose down keep the stall speed from creeping up? It seems the issue is partly people using the rudder to increase the turn rate rather than just banking more and letting the nose down more. I'm asking because I see a lot about steep descending turns being best for emergency decents over the proposed landing area with an engine out. Is it dangerous to be between 45-60 degrees if you are descending at 1.4 x VS1
Great video thanks. Been years since I solo'd in gliders so I have forgotten much I'm sure but I wonder if you can clarify something please. I only fly RC nowadays and I saw a video recently where the RC pilot was explaining that a flat turn using wings level and obviously rudder would enable the aircraft to fly slower without stalling than a banking turn would. I'm unsure if he was putting in opposite aileron or not but I think maybe he was wrong? In a right turn for example, wouldn't the right rudder mean that that wing is hitting the airflow even slower than in a banked turn and thus more likely to stall? I appreciate in either case the inside wing is turning a smaller circle anyway but im struggling to find an answer to this. Any input appreciated. 👍
An RC airplane may be able to do flat turns, but that's a terrible way to turn a real airplane. I have no idea how the variables of drag during a skid, holding deflected controls, etc. affect stall speed in such a maneuver.
Excellent video. I am training for my CFI checkride, and we have to demonstrate a cross-controlled stall, which to me seems like they want to see a slipping stall (like you demonstrated), left turn/right rudder/stick back. Does that make sense? Or should I be prepared to demonstrate the skidding stall?
See Chapter 4 in the "Airplane Flying Handbook" for the description of the cross-control stall. See also the PTS (or forthcoming ACS) for the flight instructor-airplane certificate.
...Before performing this stall, establish a safe altitude for entry and recovery in the event of a spin, and clear the area of other
traffic while slowly retarding the throttle. The next step is to lower the landing gear (if equipped with retractable gear),
close the throttle, and maintain altitude until the airspeed approaches the normal glide speed. To avoid the possibility of
exceeding the airplane’s limitations, do not extend the flaps. While the gliding attitude and airspeed are being established,
the airplane should be retrimmed. Once the glide is stabilized, the airplane should be rolled into a medium-banked turn to
simulate a final approach turn that overshoots the centerline of the runway. During the turn, smoothly apply excessive rudder pressure in the direction of the turn but hold the bank constant by applying opposite aileron pressure. At the same time, increase
back elevator pressure to keep the nose from lowering. All of these control pressures should be increased until the airplane
stalls. When the stall occurs, recover by applying nose-down elevator pressure to reduce the AOA until the stall warning
has been eliminated, remove the excessive rudder input and level the wings, and apply power as needed to return to the
desired flightpath.
BruceAirFlying great explanation .. just curious why you’d put the gear down .. is that to simulate an approach realistically?
As the Airplane Flying Handbook notes, "To set up the entry for a straight-ahead power-off stall, airplanes equipped with flaps or retractable landing gear should be in the landing configuration." See Chapter 4, p. 4-8 (www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/)
Excellent!
great video !
Good video and thank you ,
I routinely practice slow flight and stalls in a spin prohibited aircraft.
We always practice in utility category.
Question: what difference can I expect in a given g.a. aircraft if a stall happens in normal category?
You should follow the guidance available in the AFM or POH for your aircraft. Fly with an instructor who is familiar with your airplane and review the information in the latest edition of the Airplane Flying Handbook, especially Chapter 5: www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/
I chqed my 4th addition Canadian flight training manual,,although I may have missed it,I see very little on out of w&b stalls.
A bit more in your faa version.
Sorry for the delay in acknowledging your reply and thank you very much for your time.
Out of W&B limits is one thing. Stalls in the normal or utility category are another. Flying outside of W&B limits isn't legal. Your POH/AFM will include any limits on stalls in either category--spins may or may not be approved, as you noted.
@@BruceAirFlying my bad sir, I should have written ,flying with a
shifted w&b,into the normal category.
I as well agree, out of w&b flight is not only illegal,,but nuts .
There is no substitute for hands on flight training ..but I do enjoy your channel.
What type of aircraft are you flying? I doubt there's a significant difference in basic stall characteristics between the normal and utility categories. Airplanes like the C172 are approved for spins only when operated in the utility category, but developed spins are different beast from basic stalls.
I have watched videos stating the stall in the skid was the killer but the stall in the slip really took a bit more work to spin and was not so risky. Another words you would have to ignore the stall in the slip to spin but in the skid you have no chance.. This video made both look equally dangerous. Is it true that forward and side slips are generally considered safe and skids are not.
See the Airplane Flying Handbook (p.8-12):
"Unlike skids, however, if an airplane in a slip is made to stall, it displays very little of the yawing tendency that causes a skidding stall to develop into a spin. The airplane in a slip may do little more than tend to roll into a wings level attitude. In fact, in some airplanes stall characteristics may even be improved."
So, yes, stalls from slips generally are more benign than those from a skid. But a slip involves yaw, and a spin requires a stall and yaw. My demonstration emphasizes that a stall from a slip can still surprise you. If you don't immediately reduce angle of attack and instead allow the stall to develop, you experience an "over the top" spin entry.
www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/
I've used the side slip technique many times as a quick fix in order to lose altitude (=without gaining speed) when too high on final ("hot&high"), it never felt unsafe and the airspeed upon exit of the sideslip usually was about the same as upon entry. Now after seeing this video I'm really surprised how quickly the bank angle can change to the complete opposite (or even flip you over into an inverted attitude) when you end up stalling the aircraft coming from a side slip. That's really scary and looks like a death sentence if it happens 500ft above the ground. I'm aware that in a slip airspeed indication isn't reliable because the airflow over the pitot tube comes at an oblique angle, i.e. you don't really know how fast you are until you exit the slip (which is why I was taught back in my days in flights school to forget about the airspeed indicator during a side slip and focus on the pitch of the nose towards the horizon as the more valuable information). When it comes to stall characteristics, do you generally advise against side slipping on final or do you still think it's an acceptable method in the toolbox as long as you don't change the pitch (assuming that you enter the side slip at or above Vref)? I'm not sure how much you need to (unintentionally) pull on the stick/yoke until it becomes dangerous, because I never practiced an intentional side slip stall (also because in some aircraft intentional spins are prohibited even at "safe" altitude). Of course, any prediction will also depend on the duration of the slip (=time to lose forward momentum), so I'm aware that an exact answer is impossible (and safety related advise over the internet is problematic), but still I'm interested in your general opinion. THANKS FOR MAKING THE VIDEO !
Forward slips and side slips (aerodynamically the same, but used for different purposes--see Intentional Slips in Chapter 8 of the Airplane Flying Handbook), are common maneuvers. Every time you land in a crosswind, you are (or should be) in a sideslip during the final stages of the landing. Forward slips are a tool most often used these days when practicing simulated engine-out approaches to a confined area or to ensure that you can land on the available runway. Student pilots are required to demonstrate basic competency in slips before they can solo, you probably have to demonstrate them during a practical test, and I require my flight review customers to demonstrate slips. Some aircraft have limitations on the duration of slips (usually related to fuel supply issues); see your POH or AFM for those details.
The demonstrations my videos that show departures from slips and skids are intended to show the effects of stalls when the airplane is yawing. If you're uncomfortable with slips, get with a flight instructor who is familiar with your aircraft and practice.
Forward slips and side slips (aerodynamically the same, but used for different purposes--see Intentional Slips in Chapter 8 of the Airplane Flying Handbook), are common maneuvers. Every time you land in a crosswind, you are (or should be) in a sideslip during the final stages of the landing. Forward slips are a tool most often used these days when practicing simulated engine-out approaches to a confined area or to ensure that you can land on the available runway. Student pilots are required to demonstrate basic competency in slips before they can solo, you probably have to demonstrate them during a practical test, and I require my flight review customers to demonstrate slips. Some aircraft have limitations on the duration of slips (usually related to fuel supply issues); see your POH or AFM for those details.
The demonstrations my videos that show departures from slips and skids are intended to show the effects of stalls when the airplane is yawing. If you're uncomfortable with slips, get with a flight instructor who is familiar with your aircraft and practice.
Hey, thanks for your answer / for taking the time. I'm a PPL-A pilot and had my own aircraft (a Beech A23-A) for several years (no max slip duration explicitly mentioned in the POH, but that plane was built in 1966). Personally, I always felt very comfortable with slipping. My concern was more about margins and a potential false perception of safety. But your crosswind landing argument is a valid point! You're right, we slip all the time anyways and there isn't really an alternative (I personally dislike 'airliner style' crab landings and am more comfortable with the wing low method / with bank into the wind).
When you stalled in a slip it looked over exaggerated. Isn't it true that if you stall in a slip the outside wing will stall first causing it to drop and bring you back to a more wings level position however if you stall in a skid the inside wing will stall first ( because the fuselage is blocking that wing ) and cause that wing to drop causing a roll over or spin?
See the Airplane Flying Handbook (p.8-12):
"Unlike skids, however, if an airplane in a slip is made to stall, it displays very little of the yawing tendency that causes a skidding stall to develop into a spin. The airplane in a slip may do little more than tend to roll into a wings level attitude. In fact, in
some airplanes stall characteristics may even be improved."
So, yes, stalls from slips generally are more benign than those from a skid. But a slip involves yaw, and a spin requires a stall and yaw. My demonstration emphasizes that a stall from a slip can still surprise you. If you don't immediately reduce angle of attack and allow the stall to develop, you experience an "over the top" spin entry.
Great video ... thank you
Question would a Cessna 172 or piper etc recover as quickly as your sports plane ( extra 300 ? )
Each aircraft has individual characteristics. How quickly it recovers from upsets such as those shown in the video depends on many factors, including the aircraft design, how it's loaded, how the upset occurred, and the pilot's control inputs. Demonstrating these events in an aerobatic airplane allows me to show what happens without exceeding any limitations of the aircraft.
@@BruceAirFlying understood ... thanks
Slips vs Skids and Stalls InTheHangar Ep 48
DPE Joe Casey returns to talk about the dangerous difference between slipping an airplane and skidding an airplane. One is a useful tool,
In this show Joe advises that in Slipping It is not possible to spin.
But your demo shows otherwise ?
A spin requires two elements: A stall and yaw. Both slips and skids provide both ingredients. Stalls from slips, however, are generally more benign than stalls from skids. My demo, however, shows that the "over the top" roll (induced by the yaw) in a slip can startle pilots.
Slips are a wonderful tool, and pilots should spend more time learning about and practicing them.
Very explanatory, thanks
In both of these spins (slip and skid), do you recall your aileron positions?
I used aileron as necessary to maintain the bank angle. The Airplane Flying Handbook has a good description of what typically happens during a skidding, gliding turn: "As the airplane skids, the bank will increase. This often alarms the beginning pilot when it occurs close to the ground, and the pilot may respond by applying aileron pressure toward the outside of the turn to stop the bank. At the same time, the rudder forces the nose down and the pilot may apply back-elevator pressure to hold it up. If allowed to progress, this situation may result in a fully developed cross-control condition." A similar situation develops in a slip, which begins with crossed controls. But the key point of this video is the effect of yaw, not aileron deflection.