I feel like Corhyn watching the Goldmask T-pose at the Erdtree whenever TA uploads. “And though I am yet to comprehend the daintiest morsel of his wisdom... I know that this, this is my life's calling.”
I'm pretty sure that doesn't heppen , if you give corhyn the tonic of forgetfulness, he stays at the mountain tops oblivious and never goes to the capital of ash where you find goldmask seemingly dead , so he can't be responsible for it @@NoConsequenc3
Just to note, smoke is actually heavier then air, what makes it rise is the heat from which it is often produced. If it is allowed to cool slightly, like say in a cold crypt, it'll gently fall to the ground like a fog.
@@whoisjincense burning doesn't produce fog, but smoke, and if the air is moist, fog will hover right over the ground. I doubt that the crypts we see there are very dry, as they seem to only temporarily hold bodies until they're sent back to the LB. Anyways I still think it's notable that the incense falls right down, not even a slight updraft. The last Catholic sacrament I attended in person was like 30yrs ago, so I don't recall exactly, but from what I can remember the priest still tosses the incense around to make it rise and spread as much as possible.
Alexander’s one line before his final moments stand out to me. “Every vessel is designed to be broken”, which makes me think of Marika being the vessel for the greater will.
Well we see the toll being an avatar or lord to a Outer God does. Mohgs horn/bloodlust goes wild, Malenias rot accelerates, Ranni literally becomes more ethereal/Astral as she furthers the influence of the dark moon. The Giants are all vessels for the Fell God and carry the God in the Sam place as the elden ring.
Not sure if it's been brought up before but I think instead of zionism, the tarnished leaving and returning might have been a reference to the mythical "Return of the Heracleidae" where the descendants of heracles returned and conquered greece. Horah Loux is seemingly a germanic/frankish character, but he also fits the heracles role pretty well. The parallels are pretty fun. Strong hero that is the figurehead of, but not necessarily the leader of a group of people and also happens to be an important hero to the place they are invading, the idea of them being members of a community exiled in foreign lands that are now returning and reclaiming lost inheritance. Going around and defeating the various powers of the region you are invading, who themselves are recovering from a past war that left them all weakened and aren't really friends of each other.
I hadn’t thought of that before, but honestly the connection between Godfrey and Heracles makes a lot of sense. I mean the lion on his back and his massive strength, as well as his story of going around the world beating everyone up
An interesting tidbit is, that, at least the way I see it, this bringing back of the tarnished has been going on for years if not decades now. Vyke's story is already history again, Bernahl and Gideon have been doing stuff in the Lands Between for a while now, probably starting out with grace, but having lost it over the years, unable to collect the necessary Great Runes to enter the Capital, Face the veiled Monarch and travel to the Flame of Ruin. Our Tarnished seems to be one of the last batch of tarnished that come back to the Lands Between. I also love the subtle how the opening cinematics of DS1 and ER respectively confer very different vibes about our player character. The DS1 cinematic is completely occupied with naming all the mighty Lords of the Past and their legendary feats, only naming the Undead in passing, while in Elden Ring the Tarnished, their epic story and mission is front and center, conveing the much more heroic story of Elden Ring
It renews my suspicions of the two fingers. They are aligned with the greater will itself, and have been guiding the tarnished this whole time as things simply collapse.
I love how even among the tarnished called back, countless others have already come and failed, and the player character is some forgotten nobody and seemingly the absolute last resort
@@moonlightning8269Calls back to Dark Souls 3 and how we are an Ashen One, who previously failed to kindle the fire, but are called back anyways as a last resort.
Something I just noticed is the astounding similarities between Hoarah Loux’s pose in the opening cutscene and Marika’s crucifixion within the base of the Erdtree, from the positioning of the arms to the way their stomachs are impaled. Makes me wonder whether that’s a deliberate parallel
I think there needs to be something said about that pose. Marika is crucified in that pose. Godfrey is “crucified” in that pose. Godwyn is assassinated in that pose.
@@HeevaEgo you could see it as a pose signifying subjugation, in a sense. A point in which their life has been completely subsumed by the will of another, whether it be Marika bound within the Erdtree, Godfrey bound by Marika's plan for him and the Tarnished, or Godwyn being used as a stepping stone for Ranni's ambitions. In all three cases, these characters have become cogs in someone (or something) elses machine.
Remember that all those images depicted are actually paintings and pieces of art made by followers of Marika, so they are artistic representations of events in the game history
Also interesting to note that Godfrey is "crucified" on a tree. A tree that doesn't look like the Erdtree but perhaps the crucible tree, the one that first gave Hoarah Loux a primeval grace, and the one he helped destroy to usher in Marikas tree.
Lovely. I can't believe that slipped my mind. Makes me wonder what the process was that they all got broken, who was sent to do it, who ordered it out. Morgot? Was it just in an attempt to hide the disgrace marika did after breaking the elder ring or to prevent her further interference and stop tarnished specifically from coming back (a failed attempt of course if that is the case)
There is a real world phenomenon called a smoke waterfall. It occurs when the smoke has a chance to cool down before it can escape up and away. In game, we know of a type of flame that burns bitterly cold: the ghostflame. The incense in that opening scene resurrecting the Tarnished is likely burning with ghostflame. This flame is the result of burning the remains of the dead, and can carry the rancor of those dead spirits. There is one other item that connects: the Helphen's Steeple sword based on a beacon that guides only those who died in battle and wreaths itself in ruinous ghostflame with its ash of war.
Yeah I knew about the cooling smoke phenomenon but didn't connect it to ghostflame that's a good one. I've also been thinking about how Destined Death fits into all of this and if it's a power which was originally from the Land of Shadow. Which would also have certain implications for the Gloam Eyed Queen.
@@ghoulbuster1 It took a while because so many things are named ghost fire like novels, pedalboards, etc, but I found a vid by NileRed where he nitromethane (?) on fire. It's colorless and slightly yellow according to him. Christianity also equates fire with God and the holy spirit. So holy ghost fire is a symbol in that religion.
We've seen literal forms of fog for magical travel in-game: the ensnarement traps. We literally get trapped in fog against our will and get transported somewhere else arriving in a puff of fog. Another likely suggestion at fog being a means of magical transportation.
Perhaps Miyazaki took inspiration from the Celtic religion. The Celts believed that once they die, they would resurrect in a some sort of an underworld where they would battle until killed and then reincarnate/resurrect back to our world. This would explain the third church "I divest each of thee of thy grace. With your eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live and die." dialogue as well. This wouldn't be the only instance of Miyazaki taking inspiration form the Celtic religion. The wicker man in the DLC trailer being another obvious one.
Celtic-Scottish culture is very present in the dlc trailer, in general. the NPC with the Celtic armour design in the beginning of the trailer, the mini-militia enemies have Norse-Celtic inspired armour (Scottish helmet, battle axe etc.), the existence of a seemingly dead-horse is reminiscent of the ‘Kelpie’ of Scottish folklore, the Wickerman (as you stated). The Land of Shadow is DEFINITELY exploring the more Celtic-inspired concepts. If this is the case, we’ll probably be getting more lore on the Golden Lineage and the Tarnished
@@HeevaEgoI agree. I think a lot of lore hunters focus too much on the Norse influences and have completely overlooked the Celtic and old English influences which in my opinion are more present in the game.
I found it pretty inspiring how they worked together so many different cultures. I think leyndell has a lot of similarities to Rome too, and the blending of gothic barbarian lore, broader Norse, Celtic and I do believe Welsh mythology as well. With some possible Greco-Roman influence going on as well as just the cherry on top. It’s just so goooooood.
You know our wonderful friend Elemer of the Briar, and his Ash of War the Eochaid Blade Dance? Eochaid is the name of an ancient Irish Tree of Life, that essentially issues forth in Masculine form the Deific High King, one generation after another. Like God and the Universe, giving birth to itself over and over again, whose values and qualities define the age they live in or establish. Miyazaki is keenly aware of Celtic/Irish Mythology. Slave Knight Gael is an allegory for Irish servitude to the religion of Christianity, the hint is the name; Gael is singular for Gaelic, another word for Irish. No wonder he's terrifying and furious. That's what's possibly coming for the Vatican in time.
@@TOUGHEYES the root for Gael would be Wild Man or Savage which does fit his fighting style towards the end but I think miyazaki was more so going for the welsh Gael which comes from Gwynhael meaning Generous or Blessed. I think that fits much more as he’s blessed with the dark soul in this twisted way but giving that blessing to the painted world to break the cycle even though he knows he won’t be able to see it. sacrificing himself for a new world. generous indeed. Gwynhael being the origin word would also be a subtle nod to the start of his story as a slave knight under Gwyn, these two characters are complete opposites, their journey and reason for sacrifice parallel each other perfectly, perceived by the world as a human slave and a hero god, even down to the way they fight while old and mad, one is pathetic, a shadow of his former self, the other a true struggler to the end strong and fast. it caps off the souls series in a way that’s just perfect. there’s other reason but I’m not going to info dump. I just don’t see the connections with the irish and the church really fitting the themes and motifs that Miyazaki wanted to tell with Gaels story. He does know his mythology and history though, I agree with ya on that.
Aaaaah yes !! Makes so much sense! I got this eureka moment when he pointed out the incense "transmigrating" the dead into the lands between: exactly how the "trap" chests teleport us elsewhere! 🤯
The memory of grace item looks like golden light reflecting off a still ocean. It is “first memory of grace” after all, when the tarnished first saw the erdtree from a ship or shore. (or vision, like how irina sees the distant underground yellow light of the three fingers)
I just can't believe that a guy talking about historic implications of a video game created an interest in real-life history for me! Currently everywhere I go and see a statue, monument or just an old building I am doing some research and a whole new world opens before my eyes! Thank you for that and please continue with your awesome work
night in the woods did that for me …. Not sure what the through line is here … something about video games that do world building by acknowledging that worlds are made up of layers on layers of history
Tarnished archeologist has quickly become one of my favorite lore creators . You're right up there with Vaati and Smough . Love everything you do . Want more need more ! Keep up the great work !
I dunno man, I place TA higher than Vaati and just a bit above Smough. He has excellent real world knowledge and cracked the lore themes wide open, just when everyone was ready to throw in the towel and declare Elden Ring lore indeciferable.
@@kevinlasher2812 Fully agreed, Vaati's lore videos don't hold me like Tarnished Archaeologist. I literally marathonned all of his videos when I discovered this channel.
He's significantly better than either one. Vaati is a voice that recites reddit with slick editing. Smough does better analysis than vaati and is more knowledgeable. TA truly knows what he is talking about and uncovers great, new observations.
@@Bowblaxian_Tricknology after discovering TA, Smoughtown and Hawkshaw, it has made me realize how Vaati’s videos are of such little substance. It’s like you said, he just regurgitates Reddit, but with a nice coat of video editing.
Damn this is huge stuff almost entirely based on a single image that most people skip over from the intro and it actually adds up too. Great stuff as always
One note on the timeline: according to at least one fundamentalist incantation, miquella knew and was quite fond of godwin. This means that godwyn's death (and thus, the night of the black knives) must have happened after godfrey and the tarnished were banished from the lands between. Marika's plan to create an undead nigh immortal army must predate the night of the black knives. I do agree with the idea that coming & going from the lands between may be more metaphysical than literal. Heck, it's straight up called "the lands between", bit of an odd name for a place you can just sail to. Almost like it's a place between the normal world and another one. That being said, I'm still leaning towards the idea that the lands of shadow might just be the afterlife (the helphen), hence marika casting a vale over it when she removed the rune of death from the elden ring. And the tarnished, stripped of grace, can't benefit from erdtree burial & rebirth while outside of the lands between. So it'd make sense that they'd wind up there and thus need to be resurrected from the lands of shadow to the lands between via the teleportation like effecou pointed out in the image. Edit: also, in regards to the marika statue. It kinda makes sense that her iconography in the lands of shadow might be out of date since that realm is separated from the realms where erdtree faithful can build and maintain more up-to-date iconography. Those smaller stakes of marika that we resurrect at do seem to be old and ill-maintained.
We already know that though, if Godfrey and his knights were around during the Shattering, they'd have a big impact on it. Doesn't make sense for such a massive war to happen with them chilling at the roundtable hold snack bar
@@zaidlacksalastname4905 yes, during the video tarnished archeologist mentions that he was thinking marika came up with the plan after the night of the black knives. Or, at least, the way he phrased the line make's it sound like that. I'm pretty sure he knows better and just oopsied during the video, but people less familiar with the lore may not realise that.
Being raised catholic, the priest would bless things during mass with incense a lot. Not sure if it was the device(a little cage on a chain) or the incense itself, but it's smoke would fall to the floor, like the one image from the intro you discuss. To me that's normal behavior for some incense smoke.
Elden Ring has become my Roman Empire, and something's been bothering me for a while: Marika's hair as it relates to her statues. Your observations in the beginning cutscene made me take a closer look and, too me, it appears that her downward armed or "resurrection statues" have hair which reflects her current state in the game- with one long braid/tail draped over her right shoulder. Her large statues in the churches that we encounter show Marika with two braids, but the left is severed midway. I had never noticed the difference in the arms before. But the hair, that is sus to me. Ideas? Love your videos!
I think her hair is symbolic of her relationship to Radagon: with her crucifixion, half of her being is severed, removed. And that half is Marika: she's locked in the tree, all but dead (if not for that whole Eternal problem) while Radagon twists the reigns in shadow (and probably who Gideon is referring to when he talks about his vision or dialogue with Marika before you fight him).
With the DLC out we can infer that braid is shortened due to Marika cutting off her braid and offering it to the Shaman Grandmother - see the Golden Braid item
Speaking of the fog and real-life religions or mythologies... I strongly recommend to check out the description of the Realm of the Dead in ancient Greek mythology, especially before introducing the conceptions of Elysium and Tartarus. It is exactly grim, foggy and swampy place. The colorless realm, shrouded by fog, so to speak, but archtrees and everlasting dragons, alas, are not included :)
I keep looking for this but never see anyone mention it; the player's character in the intro at 29:24 is the inside of the Erdtree. It's specifically where you fight Radagon
Yeah i just recently beat Radagon again, so i've seen the Erdtree interior a lot and that scene immediately jumped out to me visually as that same arena. It even grows brighter and brighter at the end like when you cross the fog to start the fight.
Having been to Mass in large, colder spaces, the smokes falling on the bodies is normal physics. That's why the censers are swung, so the smoke move. It's not very hot beyond point of ignition.
The one thing that always confuses me is her banishment of Godfrey and the tarnished with promise of resurrection happening even before her marriage to Radagon. This means there was a huge passage of time between the banishment and the Black Knives Plot. I wonder what *specifically* her plan was for the tarnished, because having them as a mere contingency plan seems too simplistic, and I sincerely doubt she wanted her favorite child murdered
I strongly believe that Marika specifically wanted Godwyn as the other demigod who would need to die in the night of the black knives alongside Ranni, if Godwyn was involved in the shattering, the greater will would likely have reestablished the golden order without the tarnished as Godwyn was probably the most powerful of demigods and most other demigods would hardly want to oppose Godwyn reestablishing order in the lands between, I personally believe that Marika did this without any weight on her conscience knowing that most likely he could be revived by Miquella, I think it's very It is important to note that the two wars of Liurnia probably took place after Godfrey departed the lands between, Godfrey was a battle fanatic and it is extremely strange that he had no mentioned involvement in these wars, if there existed an enemy kingdom that could repel his offensives in two wars, the most natural thing would be to send his most powerful warrior to end the war but Godfrey simply has no involvement in this, Liurnia having repelled the forces of the golden order twice is probably due to the lack of Godfrey and his warriors, I believe that Marika only married Rennala in the form of Radagon to try to give birth to an Empyrean who would be Ranni and she would marry Radagon later to possibly try to give birth to other more powerful Empyreans, I think possibly Messmer could have been a birth planned by Marika to generate someone who could burn the erdtree and end the rule of the greater will
From what we know of Marika, I wouldn't put it past her to deliberately act as though Godwyn was her favorite so that her real favorite wouldn't be known, or for all her offspring to simply have been part of her plan as well. I mean look what she did with Godfrey, Rennalla, her own shadow and many others which were technically very close to her. She was definitely ruthless enough to do whatever she needed to in order to achieve her ambitions. More importantly, you are also applying the morality and values of certain cultures in our world to that of someone from an entirely different universe with completely different circumstances, culture, upbringing, views on mortality, and a million other things which make it very unlikely and illogical that Marika would have the same values as someone from our world.
@@davisiotta489 I doubt Marika had a hand in her son's assassination. It was likely an act of revenge for the schism by her former associates. We'll have some of these questions cleared up in the Shadow Lands. Queen Marika clearly had it sealed because there's a terrible secret about her true nature that she doesn't want anyone to learn about. Messmer was probably assigned to protect this and was erased from history for it. Miyazaki calls Messmer a "hero" in the Famitsu interview which is very interesting..
Great find linking Marika's poses! And I really like the idea that grace can be literally bestowed on the Tarnished through an incense ritual. Personally, I think it would be the Perfumers performing those rites, since we know they're connected with the deathbed companions. On that note, the spirit ashes for the Depraved Perfumer Carmaan (which you can find guarded by a bunch of serpent snails in the Volcano Manor) also say that "he was in search of a secret physick of revivification."
Right, the cleric in the image from the opening cutscene does have similar (but not identical) garb to the perfumers, sort of like the clerics that guard the grand lifts. There appears to be a slightly modified, or perhaps simply earlier, version of the perfumers that we don't yet know much about.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Perfumers were originally medics and something akin to chemists and/or deathbed companions; perhaps as the war drew on, their garb changed.
I'd like to believe that all the information that you provide through these beautiful videos are in the unreadable books in Roundtable Hold. Keep up the good work sir!
I’ve been critical of your previous video, but this video really reminds me of prime lorehunting. The connection between Marika and the Tarnished is obvious. But the inclusion of the opening cinematic, the significance of the Marika statues around the Lands, and relating it to the purpose of the Shadowlands really threw me for a loop. Mindblowing stuff. Stuff like this makes me more observant of the little things in a Miyazaki games
Zayf the Scholar has a video on TH-cam called, "Our Tarnished is More Than They Seem. Elden Ring Lore Theory" where he describes that, essentially, our Tarnished is actually a Demi-God, an unwanted child of Marika who is interred in a walking mausoleum before being gifted grace once again. In the beginning cutscene where you can see your character in the fog, the background noises sound just like a walking mausoleum(if a little contorted). Alongside that, Zayf brings up some JP translations for item descriptions from native speakers that expand on potential different perspectives. This would also explain why our Tarnished can defeat all these other Demi-Gods, even while our other closest competitor, Vyke, wasn't able to gather any great runes(How could the bosses be alive for us to fight if he had?). Zayf also mentions Gideon's lines, where he tells us upon his defeat, "I know...in my bones... A Tarnished cannot become a Lord. Not even you. A man cannot kill a god...", this could point to us not having a normal backstory, even while staying tarnished, we are no regular man, potentially. This can also be reconciled with the crypt scene in the opening cinematic, if we are even implied to have been there at all, as there are many sarcophagi seen there as well, similar to those seen in the walking mausoleum, minus the body on top, which would have been obviously removed to perform the ritual. I wonder if TA, and others interested, could look into Zayf's video and maybe expand upon his theory?
Thanks for another great lore analysis, TA. One point: I've been saying for a while now that Farum Azula is inspired by Pisa, and specifically that Maliketh's arena is inspired by the baptistery there. It only occured to me watching this that more may being going on there: perhaps that original function of that building was to host Greattree sap baptisms.
I always interpreted the line about the light fading from Godfrey's eyes once his conquest was done to be figurative, he does have the whole "warrior king, who really feels alive as warrior but holds himself back to fit the role of king" thing going on after all So running out of enemies would rob him of meaning and thus the joi de vivre
"In that forsaken place, blood must spill. The blood of your fellows: the Erdtree faithful." The shadow lands being the place where the Tarnished fight, die, and resurrect as per Marika's plan could very well explain that line from the trailer. Really excited to learn more about Marika and the Tarnished in the DLC
Man, I have been enjoying the heck out of these videos. Peeling back the layers of Elden Ring has helped me appreciate it even more than I thought possible. Cheers!
Hu in snared and a fog. Much like a trap chest that teleports you. I wonder if that foggy ritual is not a ritual but instead a means for the tarnished to go back to the lands between.
At first the tarnished were supposed to arrive again by boat, and a storm was to occur, we are found by melina on a beach. there would be a cave across the beach, and in the giant sheer cliff all down it. which would have taken us into the tutorial cave. Also I am not sure everyone of the Kenneth Haight type leyndell erdtree faithful see the guidance of grace. I believe they see grace.... but I think the Guidance part is tarnished only, as no one else ever talks about it in their lives, but as you said it is on an individual level of how much, or at all a tarnished sees the guidance.
Probably one of your best videos so far. I've always been intrigued, or I should say bugged, by the opening scene of Elden Ring. Thanks to this document, I'm starting to wrap my head around it all. Thanks a lot, TA, watching your work is a joy.
i feel the need to point out that the fog being put on the dead tarnished in the intro (to teleport us to the Chapel of Anticipation) is probably the same fog found in the transporter trap chests. Like, at first i just dismissed the chests as a game mechanic outside the lore, but its cool to see they still might tie into the bigger picture of the story. Edit: the largest grouping of transporter traps is in the Auriza Side Tomb right below leyndell's entrance. Its name is even pronounced like "Arise," its was so obvious all along
I'm watching lore content for almost two years now and just have decided to play the game again in preparation for the DLC. I must say that I can see the world of ER from a different point now. It's amazing how many things I have not noticed before while playing. Thank you for your amazing videos, Sir. Edit: you know what? Sometimes I ask myself if that famous pose of Marika isn't a thing that happened before - and so people eternized her like this, like Christ who went through it being crucified and rised again after this - or if she already knew that it would happen to her at the end. It seems a weird coincidence. 🤔
I haven't seen anything yet about the peculiar ways inhabitants of the Lands Between DIE. And I mean die in-game. Many of the enemies leave corpses behind, but many do not. The Tarnished also just evaporates, like those specific enemies. Are enemies like the land octopi also Tarnished in some sense? We know their methods of reproduction were changed by the Shattering, of course.
"Those stripped of the grace of gold shall all meet death, in the embrace of messmer's flame," from the dlc trailer. This line really stuck out to me because it sounds like MESSMER is the one the tarnished were facing in the Long March. Which is odd, because the tarnished are said to have gone to the Badlands and not the realm of shadow. Something's odd about it all, happy to see i wasn't alone in thinking this
Everytime I think their is no way you can dig up more lore you surprise me kudos to you and the game for being consistent enough in its world building that this is even possible!
Ah so the Tarnished are Marika’s version of the secret clone army from the Star Wars prequel trilogy. More proof Michael Zaki’s taste in media is unmatched.
Speaking of how we can't receive grace until after death, Irena doesn't become Hyeta until after she dies. Yura becomes Shabiri after he dies. This all goes in line with how the gods, outer and inner, shape life, when the old life dies and they give it a sort of rebirth. The kindred of rot are those reborn through the scarlet rot.
Thank you, the way grace is granted and that it was probably a contingency plan of Marika was quite enlightening. However, the question I was hoping to see answered was a different one: why? Let's hope for the dlc!
Grace clearly doesnt need a ritual to be given, the opening literally shows all of the named tarnish having grace, primary example being Fia, who we see waking up with grace near her. So while the sacrament might be given through ritual, you clearly can just have gravce.
Wow. It's all so clear now. Awesome upload. The low arms of Marika indicate an earlier time which fits with how the LoS was hidden prior to the shattering.
Its interesting that could be incense used in a ritual to resurrect tarnished. Because of the purple hue of the haze I always thought that was a sleep mist used to keep tarnished in a slumber to be awakened when needed.
Interesting. When Marika, through Melina, describes the tarnished as having been “divested” of grace. This reminds me of Miquella. Since the tarnished are still capable of wielding holy incantations after resurrection, perhaps the same applies with Miquella? I really want to see Miquella as an ethereal, golden being.Then again, I also wish for holy damage to be a weakness, because I will be rocking the crucible wing incantation as much as possible! I will watch the remaining half of this video after running an errand. Love it so far!
This was a great video! However, I still do believe it is a mystery how the player tarnished returned.. While yes, we do see in the opening cutscene what can only be described as a grace giving/ressurrection ritual, it's important to note: None of the tarnished we see wake up in such a place. Hoarah Loux, Gideon, Dung Eater, Goldmask, Fia.. They all are just given grace, and return to life. Not only that, looking at where they ressurrrct, especially goldmask, it seems they receive their grace extremely close to their death. Like, immediately. Hoara's body isn't even rotting yet, Goldmask gets ressurrected in a library/study, and with how famous he is you'd think that people would notice instantly him dying. And you see the player tarnished receive a tiny piece of grace, which makes our hand move. The only thing we can see is that wherever you lay seem a bit watery. It is my personal head canon, that the player character is one of the tarnished who stayed behind, according to the rusted anchor: "While the Tarnished left the Lands Between with their Lord, one boat alone was said to have been left behind." I realize that that contradicts us coming from "across the fog" in the ohysical sense, but perhaps that is still valid from a metaphorical sense, as we are ressurrected. I just like the idea of it. That also explains why we seem to have no idea who the other tarnished are, even the famous ones like Hoarah Loux, Nepheli or Goldmask. And why no other tarnished seem to know who we are, despite all tarnished supposedly being one people who left the lands between together way back when.
An interesting idea. Though I would point out that the reason nobody knows us is because we are "a Tarnished of no renown." We're literally a nobody, not even worth remembering. We are literally the last resort, after all the actually accomplished and gifted Tarnished have failed.
I headcanoned it that the crypt is in the "living world" ie, wherever the Tarnished were banished to. Since the Erdtree factors into the religions of the "outside" world, I would imagine that as (lesser) Tarnished die, they are brought to the crypt and blessed in the hope they are transferred to the Land Beyond some day.
Hrmmm not sure about it. Not an impossible theory but I think that it has going against it that we see the circumstances where each Tarnished of note regained their grace. Dung Eater's death and revival especially doesn't seem to fit the Land of Shadows - he was executed by a town, presumably for his crimes. This was a town that Boggart spent time in. The fact that some Tarnished hail from the same place as Okina and his disciples is also telling. I definitely think we will be learning about the Tarnished in the DLC, especially since Messmer's primary job seems to be incinerating those without Grace. I wouldn't go as far as to say that the Land of Shadows is universally where the Tarnished went to though.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 I agree, even if this theory is true at all, there must be much more to it. After all, tarnished come from several named lands that feel like they couldn't possibly be the land of shadow. The main two are the badlands and land of reeds, and the confessor class supposedly served churches of marika outside the lands between which in my eyes implies that the tarnished inhabited many lands
@@elididde3377 Which earnestly makes more sense from a dev perspective. It gives your players a lot of freedom to roleplay the background they want - there's a wide world out there where you could come from!
Definitely not. In the video, TA's link between the two is flimsy at best "This Knights of the Coucou Church looks strange, this crypt looks strange (even though incense falling down actually make sense), maybe they are in the same place?". And as it's been pointed out, some of those Tarnished, especially Dung Eater, do not look like they were in the Lands of Shadows at all. Also it's been made clear that the barrier to the Lands of Shadows is quite tough to crack: Miquella can only step inside after divesting himself of everything golden (essentially in spirit form), and Tarnished individual can only "follow" after Miquella, meaning they couldn't break in before Miquella did. It's very clear that the Lands of Shadows is NOT the lands the Tarnished were banished to.
Another absolute treat of a video! Only listened to it while driving home from work, but will watch again later when I can relax and absorb it properly. :)
My partner insisted I watch this video from this channel, and I now understand why. This was so interesting and we had a blast watching together. Thank you ❤
Something interesting, I'm not exactly sure where I read it in game, is that our Tarnished character likely never had grace to begin with as they are descendents of the original Tarnished of Godfrey. So the original Tarnished lived in the Lands outside of the Lands Between, meaning lived, gave birth and became nations and faction of there own over possibly centuries. And all with the blood of the original Tarnished gain grace after death. So our character's history is completely up to role-play, they could have fought alongside Vargram or Vike before losing grace, or could have been born long after, being a descendent of Godfrey himself
I think Marika came over along with the rest of the Numen. Based on the iconography on uld ruins, it seems like a large group of Numen came to the lands between by large boats. The DLC trailer seems to confirm this. It's possible that the lands between could normally only be accessed by death, but the Numen found a way to get there without dying.
I always found it curious how Hoarah Loux's resurrection is portrayed, he's crucified on a tree, in the same poise as Marika almost, pierced by a huge sword. The sword even reminds me of some of the swords stabbed into the Roundtable. Who killed him? Was it this war they were supposed to wage, or was it the tarnished themselves, who grew tired of waiting and blamed their Lord for their destitution of grace? Also Serosh's head is there, was he decapitated or is he waiting for Godfrey to resurrect?
Fantastic video as always. Another fun clue which I can't recall if you've remarked upon before, is that Marika clearly gave Hewg the mission of crafting a weapon for the Tarnished that can slay a God, chaining him to the Roundtable Hold. So her plan seems to specifically involve bringing back Tarnished so they can come and kill the Elden Beast. Which is consistent with her shattering the ring and, as you've suggested before, paving the way for the reign of Miquella. Marika maybe knew she had to shatter the Elden Ring, but that she would be enslaved afterwards, and thus created her army of Tarnished so that eventually one would come along capable of killing the Elden Beast and clearing the way for Miquella.
Excellent, you took the literal word Grace properly :) I hope you saw that in my previous comments on Grace, if not good of you to get to it. God Bless.
..."Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle. Unto eternity." Could it be something with Living Jars ? Or the recollection of our runes ? I feel like she is farming us tarnished since the erdtree doesn't produce sap anymore.
gideon says that, but he also says that its impossible to kill a god. Meanwhile, hewg was specifically cursed by marika to forge a god-slaying weapon. So, the case is probably that gideon learned of Marika's plan to slay the elden beast, and just decided it was impossible and that the tarnished would "struggle unto eternity," even if that isn't actually what marika wanted or planned for. At least thats the way i made sense of it all
You are so close to 100K, it's been a joy being a passionate follower since the second video! I even logged into my mobile account (this one) to follow you. plus to see your videos as night time unwinding.
I feel like Corhyn watching the Goldmask T-pose at the Erdtree whenever TA uploads. “And though I am yet to comprehend the daintiest morsel of his wisdom... I know that this, this is my life's calling.”
Same bro lol
We really need to touch grass (or grace?) 😂
lmao he says that shit and the moment Goldmask says some shit he doesn't like and sticks to it he fucking murders him
@@NoConsequenc3he murders him?
I'm pretty sure that doesn't heppen , if you give corhyn the tonic of forgetfulness, he stays at the mountain tops oblivious and never goes to the capital of ash where you find goldmask seemingly dead , so he can't be responsible for it
@@NoConsequenc3
@@NoConsequenc3Nah, you can kill Corhyn beforehand or give him the mindwipe potion from Tanith. Goldmask dies anyway.
Just to note, smoke is actually heavier then air, what makes it rise is the heat from which it is often produced. If it is allowed to cool slightly, like say in a cold crypt, it'll gently fall to the ground like a fog.
and fog (moist air) is lighter than dry air and will rise (hence clouds).
I've attended mass at a the Cologne Cathedral in January. The cathedral is too large to heat in winter, and the smoke from the censers proved this.
@@whoisjincense burning doesn't produce fog, but smoke, and if the air is moist, fog will hover right over the ground. I doubt that the crypts we see there are very dry, as they seem to only temporarily hold bodies until they're sent back to the LB.
Anyways I still think it's notable that the incense falls right down, not even a slight updraft.
The last Catholic sacrament I attended in person was like 30yrs ago, so I don't recall exactly, but from what I can remember the priest still tosses the incense around to make it rise and spread as much as possible.
What if, since the scene takes place in an eternal empire crypt, the fire used is coldflame, as per the old rites of the deathbirds?
I am going to use "Smoke is heavier than air" as a proverb to sound intelligent. 😅
Alexander’s one line before his final moments stand out to me. “Every vessel is designed to be broken”, which makes me think of Marika being the vessel for the greater will.
Good catch. That is the only other reference to a vessel in Elden Ring.
He didn't let us down, even in his final moments.
Well we see the toll being an avatar or lord to a Outer God does. Mohgs horn/bloodlust goes wild, Malenias rot accelerates, Ranni literally becomes more ethereal/Astral as she furthers the influence of the dark moon. The Giants are all vessels for the Fell God and carry the God in the Sam place as the elden ring.
And your belief that there has to be such a thing as "greater will"
@@liquidreality472 not really sure what you are trying to say, can you elaborate more?
“Worst she can say is no”
*removes your grace and kicks you and your friends out*
😂
Tells you to go to war and die only to return and be a pawn once more
Not sure if it's been brought up before but I think instead of zionism, the tarnished leaving and returning might have been a reference to the mythical "Return of the Heracleidae" where the descendants of heracles returned and conquered greece. Horah Loux is seemingly a germanic/frankish character, but he also fits the heracles role pretty well. The parallels are pretty fun. Strong hero that is the figurehead of, but not necessarily the leader of a group of people and also happens to be an important hero to the place they are invading, the idea of them being members of a community exiled in foreign lands that are now returning and reclaiming lost inheritance. Going around and defeating the various powers of the region you are invading, who themselves are recovering from a past war that left them all weakened and aren't really friends of each other.
I hadn’t thought of that before, but honestly the connection between Godfrey and Heracles makes a lot of sense. I mean the lion on his back and his massive strength, as well as his story of going around the world beating everyone up
This is a really cool connection!
Don’t forget the parallel between serosh and the nemean lion! I really jive with this head cannon.
Heracles and the Nemean Lion is also a nice parallel for Horah Loux and Serosh...
What does Theodore Herzl have to do with this?
An interesting tidbit is, that, at least the way I see it, this bringing back of the tarnished has been going on for years if not decades now. Vyke's story is already history again, Bernahl and Gideon have been doing stuff in the Lands Between for a while now, probably starting out with grace, but having lost it over the years, unable to collect the necessary Great Runes to enter the Capital, Face the veiled Monarch and travel to the Flame of Ruin. Our Tarnished seems to be one of the last batch of tarnished that come back to the Lands Between.
I also love the subtle how the opening cinematics of DS1 and ER respectively confer very different vibes about our player character. The DS1 cinematic is completely occupied with naming all the mighty Lords of the Past and their legendary feats, only naming the Undead in passing, while in Elden Ring the Tarnished, their epic story and mission is front and center, conveing the much more heroic story of Elden Ring
Bhernal could have been the reason why mohrghot put up the barrier because he actually got to the flame of ruin .
It renews my suspicions of the two fingers. They are aligned with the greater will itself, and have been guiding the tarnished this whole time as things simply collapse.
I love how even among the tarnished called back, countless others have already come and failed, and the player character is some forgotten nobody and seemingly the absolute last resort
@@moonlightning8269Calls back to Dark Souls 3 and how we are an Ashen One, who previously failed to kindle the fire, but are called back anyways as a last resort.
@@Eightbit_Wizard And how, even among the Ashen Ones, we weren't the first or the only one or the most special.
Something I just noticed is the astounding similarities between Hoarah Loux’s pose in the opening cutscene and Marika’s crucifixion within the base of the Erdtree, from the positioning of the arms to the way their stomachs are impaled. Makes me wonder whether that’s a deliberate parallel
Even in death, bro wanted to show off those muscles
I think there needs to be something said about that pose.
Marika is crucified in that pose.
Godfrey is “crucified” in that pose.
Godwyn is assassinated in that pose.
@@HeevaEgo you could see it as a pose signifying subjugation, in a sense. A point in which their life has been completely subsumed by the will of another, whether it be Marika bound within the Erdtree, Godfrey bound by Marika's plan for him and the Tarnished, or Godwyn being used as a stepping stone for Ranni's ambitions. In all three cases, these characters have become cogs in someone (or something) elses machine.
Remember that all those images depicted are actually paintings and pieces of art made by followers of Marika, so they are artistic representations of events in the game history
Also interesting to note that Godfrey is "crucified" on a tree. A tree that doesn't look like the Erdtree but perhaps the crucible tree, the one that first gave Hoarah Loux a primeval grace, and the one he helped destroy to usher in Marikas tree.
Damn The line where you pointed the pose of Marika in the little broken statues. HOLY SHIT! This is what I love about the lore in these games.
The attention to detail in these videos is top-tier a true video game archaeologist.
Yeah that part is cool! It's Marika's effigy BEFORE she was crucified! Very cool!
Lovely. I can't believe that slipped my mind. Makes me wonder what the process was that they all got broken, who was sent to do it, who ordered it out. Morgot? Was it just in an attempt to hide the disgrace marika did after breaking the elder ring or to prevent her further interference and stop tarnished specifically from coming back (a failed attempt of course if that is the case)
Cancelled my meetings for the rest of the day.
A man of class and genuine culture 👌🏾
Same
Me too I canceled my invasions for a bit.
My brother in Christ, it’s only 30 minutes.
@@weirdalexander8193 my brother in Marika, we need to contemplate the lore implications afterwards. I need time to think.
There is a real world phenomenon called a smoke waterfall. It occurs when the smoke has a chance to cool down before it can escape up and away. In game, we know of a type of flame that burns bitterly cold: the ghostflame. The incense in that opening scene resurrecting the Tarnished is likely burning with ghostflame.
This flame is the result of burning the remains of the dead, and can carry the rancor of those dead spirits. There is one other item that connects: the Helphen's Steeple sword based on a beacon that guides only those who died in battle and wreaths itself in ruinous ghostflame with its ash of war.
Yeah I knew about the cooling smoke phenomenon but didn't connect it to ghostflame that's a good one.
I've also been thinking about how Destined Death fits into all of this and if it's a power which was originally from the Land of Shadow.
Which would also have certain implications for the Gloam Eyed Queen.
Excellent insight
Remember also that "ghostflame" might be inspired by real life "ghost" fire that burns white.
@@ghoulbuster1 It took a while because so many things are named ghost fire like novels, pedalboards, etc, but I found a vid by NileRed where he nitromethane (?) on fire. It's colorless and slightly yellow according to him.
Christianity also equates fire with God and the holy spirit. So holy ghost fire is a symbol in that religion.
We've seen literal forms of fog for magical travel in-game: the ensnarement traps. We literally get trapped in fog against our will and get transported somewhere else arriving in a puff of fog. Another likely suggestion at fog being a means of magical transportation.
I think the most intriguing fog in the game is the boss portals that glow with golden fire like that fired by a number of cursed beings.
Also, the place our tarnished wakes up looks like the arena inside the erdtree and then the doors open to fog iirc
Perhaps Miyazaki took inspiration from the Celtic religion. The Celts believed that once they die, they would resurrect in a some sort of an underworld where they would battle until killed and then reincarnate/resurrect back to our world. This would explain the third church "I divest each of thee of thy grace. With your eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live and die." dialogue as well. This wouldn't be the only instance of Miyazaki taking inspiration form the Celtic religion. The wicker man in the DLC trailer being another obvious one.
Celtic-Scottish culture is very present in the dlc trailer, in general. the NPC with the Celtic armour design in the beginning of the trailer, the mini-militia enemies have Norse-Celtic inspired armour (Scottish helmet, battle axe etc.), the existence of a seemingly dead-horse is reminiscent of the ‘Kelpie’ of Scottish folklore, the Wickerman (as you stated).
The Land of Shadow is DEFINITELY exploring the more Celtic-inspired concepts. If this is the case, we’ll probably be getting more lore on the Golden Lineage and the Tarnished
@@HeevaEgoI agree. I think a lot of lore hunters focus too much on the Norse influences and have completely overlooked the Celtic and old English influences which in my opinion are more present in the game.
I found it pretty inspiring how they worked together so many different cultures. I think leyndell has a lot of similarities to Rome too, and the blending of gothic barbarian lore, broader Norse, Celtic and I do believe Welsh mythology as well.
With some possible Greco-Roman influence going on as well as just the cherry on top. It’s just so goooooood.
You know our wonderful friend Elemer of the Briar, and his Ash of War the Eochaid Blade Dance? Eochaid is the name of an ancient Irish Tree of Life, that essentially issues forth in Masculine form the Deific High King, one generation after another. Like God and the Universe, giving birth to itself over and over again, whose values and qualities define the age they live in or establish.
Miyazaki is keenly aware of Celtic/Irish Mythology. Slave Knight Gael is an allegory for Irish servitude to the religion of Christianity, the hint is the name; Gael is singular for Gaelic, another word for Irish. No wonder he's terrifying and furious. That's what's possibly coming for the Vatican in time.
@@TOUGHEYES the root for Gael would be Wild Man or Savage which does fit his fighting style towards the end but I think miyazaki was more so going for the welsh Gael which comes from Gwynhael meaning Generous or Blessed. I think that fits much more as he’s blessed with the dark soul in this twisted way but giving that blessing to the painted world to break the cycle even though he knows he won’t be able to see it. sacrificing himself for a new world. generous indeed.
Gwynhael being the origin word would also be a subtle nod to the start of his story as a slave knight under Gwyn, these two characters are complete opposites, their journey and reason for sacrifice parallel each other perfectly, perceived by the world as a human slave and a hero god, even down to the way they fight while old and mad, one is pathetic, a shadow of his former self, the other a true struggler to the end strong and fast. it caps off the souls series in a way that’s just perfect. there’s other reason but I’m not going to info dump. I just don’t see the connections with the irish and the church really fitting the themes and motifs that Miyazaki wanted to tell with Gaels story. He does know his mythology and history though, I agree with ya on that.
Loved the connection between the "sea of fog" and the hazy incense. Very possible, great video!
Aaaaah yes !! Makes so much sense! I got this eureka moment when he pointed out the incense "transmigrating" the dead into the lands between: exactly how the "trap" chests teleport us elsewhere! 🤯
@allthe1 Yeah! And Ya Can't Roll Outta This Smoke...Ya Dead!😂
The memory of grace item looks like golden light reflecting off a still ocean. It is “first memory of grace” after all, when the tarnished first saw the erdtree from a ship or shore. (or vision, like how irina sees the distant underground yellow light of the three fingers)
You do know irina dies in castle mourne and the irina you talk to might actually be shabriri too
First time I hear of that detail of the bodies progressively vanishing ! That blew my mind, no other LoreTuber has mentioned it to my knowledge.
I just can't believe that a guy talking about historic implications of a video game created an interest in real-life history for me! Currently everywhere I go and see a statue, monument or just an old building I am doing some research and a whole new world opens before my eyes! Thank you for that and please continue with your awesome work
night in the woods did that for me …. Not sure what the through line is here … something about video games that do world building by acknowledging that worlds are made up of layers on layers of history
Tarnished archeologist has quickly become one of my favorite lore creators . You're right up there with Vaati and Smough . Love everything you do . Want more need more ! Keep up the great work !
I dunno man, I place TA higher than Vaati and just a bit above Smough. He has excellent real world knowledge and cracked the lore themes wide open, just when everyone was ready to throw in the towel and declare Elden Ring lore indeciferable.
@@kevinlasher2812 Fully agreed, Vaati's lore videos don't hold me like Tarnished Archaeologist. I literally marathonned all of his videos when I discovered this channel.
He's significantly better than either one. Vaati is a voice that recites reddit with slick editing. Smough does better analysis than vaati and is more knowledgeable. TA truly knows what he is talking about and uncovers great, new observations.
@@Bowblaxian_Tricknology after discovering TA, Smoughtown and Hawkshaw, it has made me realize how Vaati’s videos are of such little substance. It’s like you said, he just regurgitates Reddit, but with a nice coat of video editing.
Vaati is Ornstein, Smough is....well....Smough, and TA is the Nameless King.
Damn this is huge stuff almost entirely based on a single image that most people skip over from the intro and it actually adds up too. Great stuff as always
One note on the timeline: according to at least one fundamentalist incantation, miquella knew and was quite fond of godwin. This means that godwyn's death (and thus, the night of the black knives) must have happened after godfrey and the tarnished were banished from the lands between. Marika's plan to create an undead nigh immortal army must predate the night of the black knives.
I do agree with the idea that coming & going from the lands between may be more metaphysical than literal. Heck, it's straight up called "the lands between", bit of an odd name for a place you can just sail to. Almost like it's a place between the normal world and another one.
That being said, I'm still leaning towards the idea that the lands of shadow might just be the afterlife (the helphen), hence marika casting a vale over it when she removed the rune of death from the elden ring. And the tarnished, stripped of grace, can't benefit from erdtree burial & rebirth while outside of the lands between. So it'd make sense that they'd wind up there and thus need to be resurrected from the lands of shadow to the lands between via the teleportation like effecou pointed out in the image.
Edit: also, in regards to the marika statue. It kinda makes sense that her iconography in the lands of shadow might be out of date since that realm is separated from the realms where erdtree faithful can build and maintain more up-to-date iconography. Those smaller stakes of marika that we resurrect at do seem to be old and ill-maintained.
Good observation on the date of the statues in the Land of Shadow/afterlife
We already know that though, if Godfrey and his knights were around during the Shattering, they'd have a big impact on it. Doesn't make sense for such a massive war to happen with them chilling at the roundtable hold snack bar
@@zaidlacksalastname4905 yes, during the video tarnished archeologist mentions that he was thinking marika came up with the plan after the night of the black knives. Or, at least, the way he phrased the line make's it sound like that. I'm pretty sure he knows better and just oopsied during the video, but people less familiar with the lore may not realise that.
Being raised catholic, the priest would bless things during mass with incense a lot. Not sure if it was the device(a little cage on a chain) or the incense itself, but it's smoke would fall to the floor, like the one image from the intro you discuss. To me that's normal behavior for some incense smoke.
Elden Ring has become my Roman Empire, and something's been bothering me for a while: Marika's hair as it relates to her statues. Your observations in the beginning cutscene made me take a closer look and, too me, it appears that her downward armed or "resurrection statues" have hair which reflects her current state in the game- with one long braid/tail draped over her right shoulder. Her large statues in the churches that we encounter show Marika with two braids, but the left is severed midway. I had never noticed the difference in the arms before. But the hair, that is sus to me. Ideas? Love your videos!
I think her hair is symbolic of her relationship to Radagon: with her crucifixion, half of her being is severed, removed. And that half is Marika: she's locked in the tree, all but dead (if not for that whole Eternal problem) while Radagon twists the reigns in shadow (and probably who Gideon is referring to when he talks about his vision or dialogue with Marika before you fight him).
Good catch!!
With the DLC out we can infer that braid is shortened due to Marika cutting off her braid and offering it to the Shaman Grandmother - see the Golden Braid item
Speaking of the fog and real-life religions or mythologies... I strongly recommend to check out the description of the Realm of the Dead in ancient Greek mythology, especially before introducing the conceptions of Elysium and Tartarus. It is exactly grim, foggy and swampy place. The colorless realm, shrouded by fog, so to speak, but archtrees and everlasting dragons, alas, are not included :)
I keep looking for this but never see anyone mention it; the player's character in the intro at 29:24 is the inside of the Erdtree. It's specifically where you fight Radagon
Yeah i just recently beat Radagon again, so i've seen the Erdtree interior a lot and that scene immediately jumped out to me visually as that same arena. It even grows brighter and brighter at the end like when you cross the fog to start the fight.
Having been to Mass in large, colder spaces, the smokes falling on the bodies is normal physics. That's why the censers are swung, so the smoke move. It's not very hot beyond point of ignition.
The one thing that always confuses me is her banishment of Godfrey and the tarnished with promise of resurrection happening even before her marriage to Radagon. This means there was a huge passage of time between the banishment and the Black Knives Plot. I wonder what *specifically* her plan was for the tarnished, because having them as a mere contingency plan seems too simplistic, and I sincerely doubt she wanted her favorite child murdered
I strongly believe that Marika specifically wanted Godwyn as the other demigod who would need to die in the night of the black knives alongside Ranni, if Godwyn was involved in the shattering, the greater will would likely have reestablished the golden order without the tarnished as Godwyn was probably the most powerful of demigods and most other demigods would hardly want to oppose Godwyn reestablishing order in the lands between, I personally believe that Marika did this without any weight on her conscience knowing that most likely he could be revived by Miquella, I think it's very It is important to note that the two wars of Liurnia probably took place after Godfrey departed the lands between, Godfrey was a battle fanatic and it is extremely strange that he had no mentioned involvement in these wars, if there existed an enemy kingdom that could repel his offensives in two wars, the most natural thing would be to send his most powerful warrior to end the war but Godfrey simply has no involvement in this, Liurnia having repelled the forces of the golden order twice is probably due to the lack of Godfrey and his warriors, I believe that Marika only married Rennala in the form of Radagon to try to give birth to an Empyrean who would be Ranni and she would marry Radagon later to possibly try to give birth to other more powerful Empyreans, I think possibly Messmer could have been a birth planned by Marika to generate someone who could burn the erdtree and end the rule of the greater will
From what we know of Marika, I wouldn't put it past her to deliberately act as though Godwyn was her favorite so that her real favorite wouldn't be known, or for all her offspring to simply have been part of her plan as well.
I mean look what she did with Godfrey, Rennalla, her own shadow and many others which were technically very close to her.
She was definitely ruthless enough to do whatever she needed to in order to achieve her ambitions.
More importantly, you are also applying the morality and values of certain cultures in our world to that of someone from an entirely different universe with completely different circumstances, culture, upbringing, views on mortality, and a million other things which make it very unlikely and illogical that Marika would have the same values as someone from our world.
@@davisiotta489 I doubt Marika had a hand in her son's assassination. It was likely an act of revenge for the schism by her former associates. We'll have some of these questions cleared up in the Shadow Lands. Queen Marika clearly had it sealed because there's a terrible secret about her true nature that she doesn't want anyone to learn about. Messmer was probably assigned to protect this and was erased from history for it. Miyazaki calls Messmer a "hero" in the Famitsu interview which is very interesting..
I was in desperate need of another archaeological expedition. Thank you very much!
You CANNOT confirm the narrator said “The loathsome Dung-Eater!” With a straight face… lol well maybe after the first dozen tries
😐 "AAAH- rise now" 🤭
Great find linking Marika's poses! And I really like the idea that grace can be literally bestowed on the Tarnished through an incense ritual. Personally, I think it would be the Perfumers performing those rites, since we know they're connected with the deathbed companions. On that note, the spirit ashes for the Depraved Perfumer Carmaan (which you can find guarded by a bunch of serpent snails in the Volcano Manor) also say that "he was in search of a secret physick of revivification."
Right, the cleric in the image from the opening cutscene does have similar (but not identical) garb to the perfumers, sort of like the clerics that guard the grand lifts. There appears to be a slightly modified, or perhaps simply earlier, version of the perfumers that we don't yet know much about.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Perfumers were originally medics and something akin to chemists and/or deathbed companions; perhaps as the war drew on, their garb changed.
I'd like to believe that all the information that you provide through these beautiful videos are in the unreadable books in Roundtable Hold. Keep up the good work sir!
I’ve been critical of your previous video, but this video really reminds me of prime lorehunting.
The connection between Marika and the Tarnished is obvious. But the inclusion of the opening cinematic, the significance of the Marika statues around the Lands, and relating it to the purpose of the Shadowlands really threw me for a loop. Mindblowing stuff.
Stuff like this makes me more observant of the little things in a Miyazaki games
Zayf the Scholar has a video on TH-cam called, "Our Tarnished is More Than They Seem. Elden Ring Lore Theory" where he describes that, essentially, our Tarnished is actually a Demi-God, an unwanted child of Marika who is interred in a walking mausoleum before being gifted grace once again.
In the beginning cutscene where you can see your character in the fog, the background noises sound just like a walking mausoleum(if a little contorted). Alongside that, Zayf brings up some JP translations for item descriptions from native speakers that expand on potential different perspectives. This would also explain why our Tarnished can defeat all these other Demi-Gods, even while our other closest competitor, Vyke, wasn't able to gather any great runes(How could the bosses be alive for us to fight if he had?). Zayf also mentions Gideon's lines, where he tells us upon his defeat, "I know...in my bones... A Tarnished cannot become a Lord. Not even you. A man cannot kill a god...", this could point to us not having a normal backstory, even while staying tarnished, we are no regular man, potentially.
This can also be reconciled with the crypt scene in the opening cinematic, if we are even implied to have been there at all, as there are many sarcophagi seen there as well, similar to those seen in the walking mausoleum, minus the body on top, which would have been obviously removed to perform the ritual.
I wonder if TA, and others interested, could look into Zayf's video and maybe expand upon his theory?
Thanks for another great lore analysis, TA. One point: I've been saying for a while now that Farum Azula is inspired by Pisa, and specifically that Maliketh's arena is inspired by the baptistery there. It only occured to me watching this that more may being going on there: perhaps that original function of that building was to host Greattree sap baptisms.
That was the most beautiful and satisfying lore video to date, full stop.
Tingles when it was highlighted that Marika's pose is inverted at the Stakes of Marika. Love this channel
I always interpreted the line about the light fading from Godfrey's eyes once his conquest was done to be figurative, he does have the whole "warrior king, who really feels alive as warrior but holds himself back to fit the role of king" thing going on after all
So running out of enemies would rob him of meaning and thus the joi de vivre
"In that forsaken place, blood must spill. The blood of your fellows: the Erdtree faithful." The shadow lands being the place where the Tarnished fight, die, and resurrect as per Marika's plan could very well explain that line from the trailer. Really excited to learn more about Marika and the Tarnished in the DLC
Man, I have been enjoying the heck out of these videos. Peeling back the layers of Elden Ring has helped me appreciate it even more than I thought possible. Cheers!
The opening narration of Elden Ring never fails to give me goosebumps.
Hu in snared and a fog. Much like a trap chest that teleports you. I wonder if that foggy ritual is not a ritual but instead a means for the tarnished to go back to the lands between.
Probably the best TA video yet, a masterpiece of forensic analysis
Can’t deny the dedication and thoughtfulness that goes into these, regardless of the the shortcomings of the subject matter.
At first the tarnished were supposed to arrive again by boat, and a storm was to occur, we are found by melina on a beach. there would be a cave across the beach, and in the giant sheer cliff all down it. which would have taken us into the tutorial cave.
Also I am not sure everyone of the Kenneth Haight type leyndell erdtree faithful see the guidance of grace. I believe they see grace.... but I think the Guidance part is tarnished only, as no one else ever talks about it in their lives, but as you said it is on an individual level of how much, or at all a tarnished sees the guidance.
Probably one of your best videos so far. I've always been intrigued, or I should say bugged, by the opening scene of Elden Ring. Thanks to this document, I'm starting to wrap my head around it all. Thanks a lot, TA, watching your work is a joy.
i feel the need to point out that the fog being put on the dead tarnished in the intro (to teleport us to the Chapel of Anticipation) is probably the same fog found in the transporter trap chests. Like, at first i just dismissed the chests as a game mechanic outside the lore, but its cool to see they still might tie into the bigger picture of the story.
Edit: the largest grouping of transporter traps is in the Auriza Side Tomb right below leyndell's entrance. Its name is even pronounced like "Arise," its was so obvious all along
I'm watching lore content for almost two years now and just have decided to play the game again in preparation for the DLC. I must say that I can see the world of ER from a different point now. It's amazing how many things I have not noticed before while playing. Thank you for your amazing videos, Sir.
Edit: you know what? Sometimes I ask myself if that famous pose of Marika isn't a thing that happened before - and so people eternized her like this, like Christ who went through it being crucified and rised again after this - or if she already knew that it would happen to her at the end. It seems a weird coincidence. 🤔
Huzzah! News from the archeological digs!
I haven't seen anything yet about the peculiar ways inhabitants of the Lands Between DIE. And I mean die in-game. Many of the enemies leave corpses behind, but many do not. The Tarnished also just evaporates, like those specific enemies. Are enemies like the land octopi also Tarnished in some sense? We know their methods of reproduction were changed by the Shattering, of course.
"Those stripped of the grace of gold shall all meet death, in the embrace of messmer's flame," from the dlc trailer. This line really stuck out to me because it sounds like MESSMER is the one the tarnished were facing in the Long March. Which is odd, because the tarnished are said to have gone to the Badlands and not the realm of shadow.
Something's odd about it all, happy to see i wasn't alone in thinking this
Everytime I think their is no way you can dig up more lore you surprise me kudos to you and the game for being consistent enough in its world building that this is even possible!
Coming back from work just to see new Ep! FK yeah!🎉
Ah so the Tarnished are Marika’s version of the secret clone army from the Star Wars prequel trilogy. More proof Michael Zaki’s taste in media is unmatched.
I know that in Welsh mythology it’s known that when one dies the soul travels through a heavy fog across a sea to arrive in the afterlife
Speaking of how we can't receive grace until after death, Irena doesn't become Hyeta until after she dies. Yura becomes Shabiri after he dies. This all goes in line with how the gods, outer and inner, shape life, when the old life dies and they give it a sort of rebirth. The kindred of rot are those reborn through the scarlet rot.
Sage Gowry as well, implying the outer gods, like the Frenzy Flame god and the Rot god, hold sway more over death and "soul."
Thank you, the way grace is granted and that it was probably a contingency plan of Marika was quite enlightening. However, the question I was hoping to see answered was a different one: why? Let's hope for the dlc!
Yes! A new Tarnished Archeologist!
Incredible work as always TA. The most coherent, thorough analysis of fromsoft lore
Grace clearly doesnt need a ritual to be given, the opening literally shows all of the named tarnish having grace, primary example being Fia, who we see waking up with grace near her. So while the sacrament might be given through ritual, you clearly can just have gravce.
Thoroughly enjoyed it as always my friend
Wow. It's all so clear now. Awesome upload. The low arms of Marika indicate an earlier time which fits with how the LoS was hidden prior to the shattering.
OMG the merika respawn shrine comparison is spot on. What incredible lore for explaining how the checkpoints work in world
Its interesting that could be incense used in a ritual to resurrect tarnished. Because of the purple hue of the haze I always thought that was a sleep mist used to keep tarnished in a slumber to be awakened when needed.
I never noticed the change in her positioning in the introduction, that just absolutely twisted my mellon man!
Interesting. When Marika, through Melina, describes the tarnished as having been “divested” of grace. This reminds me of Miquella. Since the tarnished are still capable of wielding holy incantations after resurrection, perhaps the same applies with Miquella? I really want to see Miquella as an ethereal, golden being.Then again, I also wish for holy damage to be a weakness, because I will be rocking the crucible wing incantation as much as possible! I will watch the remaining half of this video after running an errand. Love it so far!
This was a great video! However, I still do believe it is a mystery how the player tarnished returned..
While yes, we do see in the opening cutscene what can only be described as a grace giving/ressurrection ritual, it's important to note: None of the tarnished we see wake up in such a place.
Hoarah Loux, Gideon, Dung Eater, Goldmask, Fia.. They all are just given grace, and return to life. Not only that, looking at where they ressurrrct, especially goldmask, it seems they receive their grace extremely close to their death. Like, immediately. Hoara's body isn't even rotting yet, Goldmask gets ressurrected in a library/study, and with how famous he is you'd think that people would notice instantly him dying.
And you see the player tarnished receive a tiny piece of grace, which makes our hand move. The only thing we can see is that wherever you lay seem a bit watery.
It is my personal head canon, that the player character is one of the tarnished who stayed behind, according to the rusted anchor: "While the Tarnished left the Lands Between with their Lord, one boat alone was said to have been left behind."
I realize that that contradicts us coming from "across the fog" in the ohysical sense, but perhaps that is still valid from a metaphorical sense, as we are ressurrected. I just like the idea of it.
That also explains why we seem to have no idea who the other tarnished are, even the famous ones like Hoarah Loux, Nepheli or Goldmask. And why no other tarnished seem to know who we are, despite all tarnished supposedly being one people who left the lands between together way back when.
An interesting idea. Though I would point out that the reason nobody knows us is because we are "a Tarnished of no renown." We're literally a nobody, not even worth remembering. We are literally the last resort, after all the actually accomplished and gifted Tarnished have failed.
Oh my GOD seeing all those guidances of grace appear before the main characters, somehow never noticed before but is so clear now.
Been super overwhelmed with life and took off work today for it. This is a pleasant surprise.
Your videos bring a lot of joy to me and others during these trying times. Thank you so much
The lands of shadows = land beyond the fog. Mark my words. Sometime during this dlc we will see that crypt.
I headcanoned it that the crypt is in the "living world" ie, wherever the Tarnished were banished to. Since the Erdtree factors into the religions of the "outside" world, I would imagine that as (lesser) Tarnished die, they are brought to the crypt and blessed in the hope they are transferred to the Land Beyond some day.
Hrmmm not sure about it. Not an impossible theory but I think that it has going against it that we see the circumstances where each Tarnished of note regained their grace. Dung Eater's death and revival especially doesn't seem to fit the Land of Shadows - he was executed by a town, presumably for his crimes. This was a town that Boggart spent time in. The fact that some Tarnished hail from the same place as Okina and his disciples is also telling.
I definitely think we will be learning about the Tarnished in the DLC, especially since Messmer's primary job seems to be incinerating those without Grace. I wouldn't go as far as to say that the Land of Shadows is universally where the Tarnished went to though.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 I agree, even if this theory is true at all, there must be much more to it. After all, tarnished come from several named lands that feel like they couldn't possibly be the land of shadow. The main two are the badlands and land of reeds, and the confessor class supposedly served churches of marika outside the lands between which in my eyes implies that the tarnished inhabited many lands
@@elididde3377 Which earnestly makes more sense from a dev perspective. It gives your players a lot of freedom to roleplay the background they want - there's a wide world out there where you could come from!
Definitely not. In the video, TA's link between the two is flimsy at best "This Knights of the Coucou Church looks strange, this crypt looks strange (even though incense falling down actually make sense), maybe they are in the same place?".
And as it's been pointed out, some of those Tarnished, especially Dung Eater, do not look like they were in the Lands of Shadows at all. Also it's been made clear that the barrier to the Lands of Shadows is quite tough to crack: Miquella can only step inside after divesting himself of everything golden (essentially in spirit form), and Tarnished individual can only "follow" after Miquella, meaning they couldn't break in before Miquella did.
It's very clear that the Lands of Shadows is NOT the lands the Tarnished were banished to.
Got sick, cancelled meetings - chicken noodle and TA let’s GO!
Bravo! Ye truly are gifted, Tarnished. Grace hath not forsaken you.
This is one of your best videos yet! Just absolute chef’s kiss on this one
Tarnished out here answering the real questions. It's always a treat when you upload... well, anything really.
Literally made up an excuse to go to bed early and pass out to this. TA is my absolute guilty pleasure!
Another absolute treat of a video! Only listened to it while driving home from work, but will watch again later when I can relax and absorb it properly. :)
Another knock out of the park. Favorite lore channel, period.
This is my favorite Elden Ring lore video. I just love all of it haha great work!
My partner insisted I watch this video from this channel, and I now understand why. This was so interesting and we had a blast watching together. Thank you ❤
been bingewatching your content but recently ran out, so glad this came up !!
Never realized the cutscenes of the NPC’s has a little bit of grace in front of their eyes as they are getting called back. Love it
Something interesting, I'm not exactly sure where I read it in game, is that our Tarnished character likely never had grace to begin with as they are descendents of the original Tarnished of Godfrey. So the original Tarnished lived in the Lands outside of the Lands Between, meaning lived, gave birth and became nations and faction of there own over possibly centuries. And all with the blood of the original Tarnished gain grace after death. So our character's history is completely up to role-play, they could have fought alongside Vargram or Vike before losing grace, or could have been born long after, being a descendent of Godfrey himself
If coming to the Lands Between requires death, then maybe that's how Marika arrived.
I think Marika came over along with the rest of the Numen. Based on the iconography on uld ruins, it seems like a large group of Numen came to the lands between by large boats. The DLC trailer seems to confirm this.
It's possible that the lands between could normally only be accessed by death, but the Numen found a way to get there without dying.
@@Timothy2012Just shooting pot shots.
The locations of the Numen runes are interesting.
Haligtree
mohgwyn palace
deeproot depths
divine calid tower
I really enjoy the sort of visual pun set up by the baptistries in front of the Erdtree - or as it were - the baptists' tree.
Checking this channel every day is always worth it when a video pops up.
I think queen marinara plan is for us to fix the Amazon gift card
once again you managed to make elden ring even more interesting than it already is.
How can you be this good? Always baffle me!
I always found it curious how Hoarah Loux's resurrection is portrayed, he's crucified on a tree, in the same poise as Marika almost, pierced by a huge sword. The sword even reminds me of some of the swords stabbed into the Roundtable. Who killed him? Was it this war they were supposed to wage, or was it the tarnished themselves, who grew tired of waiting and blamed their Lord for their destitution of grace? Also Serosh's head is there, was he decapitated or is he waiting for Godfrey to resurrect?
This content makes mowing my field much more enjoyable
You are a master at scrutinizing promo material. Great video!
I absolutely despise playing FromSoft games but watching your videos has made me ADORE the storytelling, both the in-game story and your own analysis.
Great videos man.
You are making me care about this game more and more
Fantastic video as always. Another fun clue which I can't recall if you've remarked upon before, is that Marika clearly gave Hewg the mission of crafting a weapon for the Tarnished that can slay a God, chaining him to the Roundtable Hold. So her plan seems to specifically involve bringing back Tarnished so they can come and kill the Elden Beast. Which is consistent with her shattering the ring and, as you've suggested before, paving the way for the reign of Miquella. Marika maybe knew she had to shatter the Elden Ring, but that she would be enslaved afterwards, and thus created her army of Tarnished so that eventually one would come along capable of killing the Elden Beast and clearing the way for Miquella.
I think at this point even Miyazaki takes notes from your videos when they drop.
I am going to sleep good tonight listening to another amazing lore video. Great work friend!!!
Excellent, you took the literal word Grace properly :) I hope you saw that in my previous comments on Grace, if not good of you to get to it. God Bless.
Debra! Cancel all my meetings and forward my calls. The Tarnished Archeologist just dropped.
Goddamn that last image nailed it. Love your work!
..."Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle. Unto eternity."
Could it be something with Living Jars ? Or the recollection of our runes ?
I feel like she is farming us tarnished since the erdtree doesn't produce sap anymore.
gideon says that, but he also says that its impossible to kill a god. Meanwhile, hewg was specifically cursed by marika to forge a god-slaying weapon. So, the case is probably that gideon learned of Marika's plan to slay the elden beast, and just decided it was impossible and that the tarnished would "struggle unto eternity," even if that isn't actually what marika wanted or planned for. At least thats the way i made sense of it all
You are so close to 100K, it's been a joy being a passionate follower since the second video! I even logged into my mobile account (this one) to follow you. plus to see your videos as night time unwinding.
The Archeologist uncovered more??? I was waiting for you to drop a video!
Ah yes, time to update my Elden Ring notes.
*drops a massive, dusty tome onto my desk*