OTOH the only real difference between digital EQ plugins is generally the user interface/workflow features. Comparing how two different linear digital EQs sound is basically pointless because they should all sound almost identical. I think the main usability benefit of that multi eq view isn't that you can see all of the channel EQs at once but that you can easily change them all in one place without having to switching around between multiple plugin windows. On that note Pro-Q 4 actually added optional frequency dependent saturation modes and spectral dynamics which actually does things to the sound that pro-Q 3 didn't.
AI doesnt need to reproduce sexually... think about that for a minute - it may help you understand why these kids are trying to mix audio with their eyes
This is exactly why I rarely use digital visual EQ….maybe if I’m really having a hard time I will pull one up but for the most part I could dwindle my plug in collection down to channel strips I use and tape machines with maybe 5-6 compressors and a few master buss special processing things and I would be able to hand you a platinum sounding album. Lately can’t believe the sound quality of the channel strips that are out there. I love them. We are so lucky in today’s game. To be able to go home, pull out an MPC, write a rap down record it mix it master it all without leaving the bedroom and having it sound almost as good as the albums I use to love is absolutely a dream I never thought I would see in the 80’s and 90’s growing up. Even early on when I started using a DAW in the late 90’s I never saw it becoming like it is today.
I'm a big fan of feeling it out and not over analyzing the visuals but on the other side, I see how it could help some folks learn. People are visual, some are not...Good to have options.
Great video! I did a couple of videos where i tried to integrate the fabfilter pro q4 in my working sessions and truly has some features that could save me some time but that listing of eq's was that I taught that will be good to have it but eventually never used it in my sessions as i didn't needed plus the "collision" indicator is trip wire makes you do all the bad decisions...i didn't bought it i just tried out, had the opportunity for those 30 trial days and today is finished; And i fill good in returning to my old habits...
@@cormacsugrue614 Utterly unique and novel approaches to audio processing that provide powerful, uncompromising and unparalleled features... But which involve navigating the most frustratingly minimalist interface you've ever seen in your entire life. Proud patreon supporter here of Chris' AirWindows. I've got (well used to have lol) hundreds of plugins, so many that I had to actually wipe my computer to just get rid of their intrusiveness. AirWindows is among the very select few that made it back onto the PC after the wipe.
Whenever I hear anything is "industry standard" I think - "ok so its all your fault"! I recently had a fit of burning curiousity to see what my digital EQ plug-ins sounded like in comparison to each other. I just boosted a top shelf and a low shelf, and I went through them all. I have many. It was shocking how disappointing 90% of them were, GUI's aside. The one or two exceptions that sounded better have been around a while too. Nothing to do with new tech. Thanks for the honest talk.
No problem doing broad strokes eq moves with FabFilter... No problem using your ears while doing it either ;-) PS. "Masking" (in the analyzer sense) may as well be combining sounds, for the better... Yes, use your ears 🙂
I like watching at the graphs, tells me if what i'm hearing is right (i'm freelancing in many different studios and it confirms if the room&monitors are giving me accurate information).
YOU determine the relationships, that’s the FUN part. It’s like never actually cooking because you’re instead constantly working on developing better ways to extend the shelf life of your ingredients.
I started my recording life in the 70's working in a studio all analog not a computer anywhere so was mixing and EQing with dials. I miss knobs and dialing around listening to find where and how much to EQ, but looking at the visual makes me pause and take another listen. Like taking a second look at the hot babe holding a croissant.
2 things: pluginboutique is frequented by our frugal friends who don't wanna spend too much because music is a hobby for them. Sight is more important to this group. Some refer to GUIs as 'sexy'. Secondly, what sounds good analog doesn't always sound good streaming. The Chronic on cd sounds way better than the stream. Dr Dre is using his old methods and Snoops new album doesn't slap like the GNX mixes do. Most of the money made from music today is selling tools to prosumers. Gotta meet em where they are
A lot of truth to that for sure. One would hope it is at least a decent interface to achieve desired effect. To me it should not be rocket science lol 👊🧡👍
@ when presented with both visual and auditory stimuli simultaneously, the brain often prioritizes the visual input, a phenomenon sometimes referred to as "visual dominance." Plugin makers definitely take advantage of this.
Thank you for saying this. I've felt for the longest that this is one of the key reasons for the current state of popular music. People are producing and mixing with their eyes. It sucks!
That's how I see it for the most part, or hear it I should say. Either way great points made by you, but people swear by it for it's speedy workflow and dynamic compression and will make you sick of hearing about it with surgical precision
I had to finish a mix of a track I just made within a couple of hours a couple of weeks ago. The visual pro Q 4 compare probably guided me towards doing it a rough mix without really listening quicker so I could spend more time on some of the details instead. Probably won’t use that feature a lot but now and then it is probably useful. I have used the channel comparison feature of pro q 3 a few times on tracks with complicated sonic content. At least 95% of the time I just use Ableton Lives built in EQ8 which is good enough for almost everything I would ever need.
many of these clown shills get scripts or talking points from the software companies they're shilling for. and they're just parroting that because that's what's important to the software company because the company needs to sell and justify the development of their flashy software.
'surgical' is a new one to me. 'organic' is one that sets my teeth on edge, they're almost opposites clean and bright, or dull and dirty. forget the soulful experience of the sound that enters through the ear holes.
Learning audio engineering today is a lot easier in some ways (becoming familiar with what an LA2A sounds like without having to get people coffee and work for train fare). But all of the visual feedback built into modern plug-ins can be very distracting and tempting to pay attention to instead of developing critical listening skills. It's been proven that multitasking is a myth (people who claim to be good at multitasking are really just good at switching back and forth between different tasks), and if you're intently staring at something, it's impossible to be totally focused on listening to something at the same time.
think all these "surgical" and also the "AI"-driven tools are leading towards a certain sound based on offloading the decision making to the computer. And so anyone that is using their ears to make decisions, to a lot of people going forward it's not gonna sound "clean" enough. An R&B song in the 90s from Whitney or someone like that, and now listening back today the lack of tuning plugins is STARK. So people will say "they sound kinda flat", because they're so used to everything being corrected to be SUPER precise.
@@TonyBlackNYC oh I definitely agree with that, but I would add to that list "label/A&R" types. It does feel like when the commonly used tools are pushing things in the processed direction, it is noticeably different when you do things more naturally; and I wonder if label types and such will tend towards not appreciating "noticeably different" as a bad thing, even if they can't put their finger on what it is. I haven't spent a lot of time on that side of the industry so I could be wrong?
One of the guys who's TH-cam channel I follow (someone suggested best avoided - TB👀 LOL) frequently says in his videos that he always turns the frequency analyser display off because we should use our ears not our eyes.
@@TonyBlackNYCYo Tony, Dave Rat has a legit channel, as does Dan Worrall and your good self. The rest ->. I’m too busy working on mixes to watch YT. I personally love FabFilter for its ease of use. But 4000G 9000K Trident Neve Yamaha etc taught me to use my ears ->. I’m too busy to look ->. It’s fast ->. 3 90sec adverting spots in 8 hrs ->. I’m $15k better off ->. It pays the bills ->. If it was the first Eq I ever used, yeah total head fvck ->. If I’m working on actual creative material, then I might start being discerning. . Experience vs tool are very different things. How many viewers here actually make a decent living from these tools ? Dig yr channel. Thanks.
If musicians would go back to shopping with their ears instead of their eyes, the gear would actually get better but these days they spend more money on the interface or how it looks than anything else
The G21 clips in a multi-band fashion, but removes the harmonics that are generated by clipping and redirects those harmonics into powering meters. What a phenomenal invention! Not only do you remove the smeary harmonics that interfere with the delightful clipping, but you use those same harmonics to generate energy that powers the meters. Check it out dudes.
If you're not familiar with the Gyraf G21, I guess the best thing I can compare it to is the Urei 565T (lil' dipper lol). The classic notch and filter device from aeons ago. I got a couple of them. The difference being that the G21 offers insanely innovative clipping opportunity beyond just simple notch cuts and filters.
Yeah I get annoyed with the nit picking surgical mumbo jumbo’s that are afraid of horrifying phase shifting issues but start using eq before even getting the balance right 🥐
get good information and know what it sounds like, not what it looks like.
💯%🎯 🔥👊🧡👍🔥
@@drindy5166🫡👊🍰🥐
OTOH the only real difference between digital EQ plugins is generally the user interface/workflow features. Comparing how two different linear digital EQs sound is basically pointless because they should all sound almost identical.
I think the main usability benefit of that multi eq view isn't that you can see all of the channel EQs at once but that you can easily change them all in one place without having to switching around between multiple plugin windows.
On that note Pro-Q 4 actually added optional frequency dependent saturation modes and spectral dynamics which actually does things to the sound that pro-Q 3 didn't.
AI doesnt need to reproduce sexually... think about that for a minute - it may help you understand why these kids are trying to mix audio with their eyes
u can quickly adjust all the instances of pro q 4 by seeing many of them at once, more like an analog console IMO
The beginner producer loves high precision for some reason. I dont know why, but I could rant about it all the time.
You are a Bitwig Shill that ignores all the Failures the Dev team has had, while they push "new features"
@ You're too Low IQ to understand what I wrote, so just go back to drooling on your keyboard
This is exactly why I rarely use digital visual EQ….maybe if I’m really having a hard time I will pull one up but for the most part I could dwindle my plug in collection down to channel strips I use and tape machines with maybe 5-6 compressors and a few master buss special processing things and I would be able to hand you a platinum sounding album. Lately can’t believe the sound quality of the channel strips that are out there. I love them. We are so lucky in today’s game. To be able to go home, pull out an MPC, write a rap down record it mix it master it all without leaving the bedroom and having it sound almost as good as the albums I use to love is absolutely a dream I never thought I would see in the 80’s and 90’s growing up. Even early on when I started using a DAW in the late 90’s I never saw it becoming like it is today.
I'm a big fan of feeling it out and not over analyzing the visuals but on the other side, I see how it could help some folks learn. People are visual, some are not...Good to have options.
Great video! I did a couple of videos where i tried to integrate the fabfilter pro q4 in my working sessions and truly has some features that could save me some time but that listing of eq's was that I taught that will be good to have it but eventually never used it in my sessions as i didn't needed plus the "collision" indicator is trip wire makes you do all the bad decisions...i didn't bought it i just tried out, had the opportunity for those 30 trial days and today is finished; And i fill good in returning to my old habits...
For this reason I love AIRWINDOWS plugins so much.
why?
@@cormacsugrue614 Utterly unique and novel approaches to audio processing that provide powerful, uncompromising and unparalleled features... But which involve navigating the most frustratingly minimalist interface you've ever seen in your entire life.
Proud patreon supporter here of Chris' AirWindows.
I've got (well used to have lol) hundreds of plugins, so many that I had to actually wipe my computer to just get rid of their intrusiveness. AirWindows is among the very select few that made it back onto the PC after the wipe.
@@cormacsugrue614 there is NO GUI!
@@cormacsugrue614because there are no visuals, just faders and labels
@@cormacsugrue614 No GUI
Whenever I hear anything is "industry standard" I think - "ok so its all your fault"! I recently had a fit of burning curiousity to see what my digital EQ plug-ins sounded like in comparison to each other. I just boosted a top shelf and a low shelf, and I went through them all. I have many. It was shocking how disappointing 90% of them were, GUI's aside. The one or two exceptions that sounded better have been around a while too. Nothing to do with new tech. Thanks for the honest talk.
I'm a novice engineer for my own music. I mix all my music in Ableton and I have never relied on visuals to EQ any of my sounds.
Another thing that keeps being sold is ‘that analog warmth’. I think it’s even a new feature on pro-eq 4 😂
No problem doing broad strokes eq moves with FabFilter... No problem using your ears while doing it either ;-)
PS. "Masking" (in the analyzer sense) may as well be combining sounds, for the better... Yes, use your ears 🙂
this is something that definitely needs to be talked about more
I like watching at the graphs, tells me if what i'm hearing is right (i'm freelancing in many different studios and it confirms if the room&monitors are giving me accurate information).
YOU determine the relationships, that’s the FUN part. It’s like never actually cooking because you’re instead constantly working on developing better ways to extend the shelf life of your ingredients.
The White Album was cool, but an eq plug in would have really made it great.
Its the same with photography youtubers.. Too much focus on the gear. Got to have the latest body, lens etc.
yes...specs over results
I started my recording life in the 70's working in a studio all analog not a computer anywhere so was mixing and EQing with dials. I miss knobs and dialing around listening to find where and how much to EQ, but looking at the visual makes me pause and take another listen. Like taking a second look at the hot babe holding a croissant.
proper croissant mention
2 things: pluginboutique is frequented by our frugal friends who don't wanna spend too much because music is a hobby for them. Sight is more important to this group. Some refer to GUIs as 'sexy'. Secondly, what sounds good analog doesn't always sound good streaming. The Chronic on cd sounds way better than the stream. Dr Dre is using his old methods and Snoops new album doesn't slap like the GNX mixes do. Most of the money made from music today is selling tools to prosumers. Gotta meet em where they are
I hear you 🙂
The GUI is 95% what sells people on a plugin..its sad
A lot of truth to that for sure. One would hope it is at least a decent interface to achieve desired effect. To me it should not be rocket science lol
👊🧡👍
Agree! I've fallen down that Rabbit hole many times 😢
@ when presented with both visual and auditory stimuli simultaneously, the brain often prioritizes the visual input, a phenomenon sometimes referred to as "visual dominance." Plugin makers definitely take advantage of this.
*hehe, perfect analysis! This is what I always say and then get flames on the usual forums, groups, whatnot. Love your videos, so refreshing.*
... just recognized the word on your cap 😀 Nifty.
Thank you for saying this. I've felt for the longest that this is one of the key reasons for the current state of popular music. People are producing and mixing with their eyes. It sucks!
@@kennydust That ! and most are after the same ‘safe’ sound. Just like every metal production uses kick triggers with the same samples and a 5150 🙃
We think the same way, I beg to differ too 🤔
Love your work as always!!!!!!!
The only surgery i ever did on a recording was with a razor blade hahaha
That's how I see it for the most part, or hear it I should say.
Either way great points made by you, but people swear by it for it's speedy workflow and dynamic compression and will make you sick of hearing about it with surgical precision
I had to finish a mix of a track I just made within a couple of hours a couple of weeks ago. The visual pro Q 4 compare probably guided me towards doing it a rough mix without really listening quicker so I could spend more time on some of the details instead.
Probably won’t use that feature a lot but now and then it is probably useful.
I have used the channel comparison feature of pro q 3 a few times on tracks with complicated sonic content.
At least 95% of the time I just use Ableton Lives built in EQ8 which is good enough for almost everything I would ever need.
Real talk Tony.
Oh my god thank you for saying this Tony 😂
Awesome insight
Tony, loved the Steely Dan reference!
iirc "individual microphone equalisation is frowned upon"! from the liner notes on one of their LPs.
many of these clown shills get scripts or talking points from the software companies they're shilling for. and they're just parroting that because that's what's important to the software company because the company needs to sell and justify the development of their flashy software.
The Simulacra is already activated.... People would end mixing in Atmos to simulate The Stereo Image Simulacra from Abbey Road Rooms....
Amen! Preach!
VST plugin idea, masking as saturation......now with analog emulation!
Ooo! Talk to them, Tony. Where’s your MasterClass or Black Book special?
great advice
Great Advice Mr. Tony!!!!!
True.
I intentionally don’t use any graphic-view EQs in my mixes or videos. Hate them for that very reason.
Great points made
💯 on point
Tony thanks for cutting through the bullshit !!!!!!!!!!!
Lots of BS out their!! Great topic Legend!
'surgical' is a new one to me. 'organic' is one that sets my teeth on edge, they're almost opposites clean and bright, or dull and dirty. forget the soulful experience of the sound that enters through the ear holes.
'warmth' lol
add "transparent" to that
Thanks, Tony! 🔥 🥐 🍰
proper croissant mention
Haha!!! Love it.
I listen when creating music, not look.
proper croissant mention
L.C.G.... 🍰🍰🍰🍰
🫡👊🍰🥐
It's a new day and age Tony. Mentorship is dead. Nobodies listening, just watching. Don't waste your time. Don't get spammed.
In 30 years people will get 2025er pro qs, for nostalgic reasons
Probably next year 😂
Learning audio engineering today is a lot easier in some ways (becoming familiar with what an LA2A sounds like without having to get people coffee and work for train fare). But all of the visual feedback built into modern plug-ins can be very distracting and tempting to pay attention to instead of developing critical listening skills. It's been proven that multitasking is a myth (people who claim to be good at multitasking are really just good at switching back and forth between different tasks), and if you're intently staring at something, it's impossible to be totally focused on listening to something at the same time.
think all these "surgical" and also the "AI"-driven tools are leading towards a certain sound based on offloading the decision making to the computer. And so anyone that is using their ears to make decisions, to a lot of people going forward it's not gonna sound "clean" enough. An R&B song in the 90s from Whitney or someone like that, and now listening back today the lack of tuning plugins is STARK. So people will say "they sound kinda flat", because they're so used to everything being corrected to be SUPER precise.
I don't think listeners/fans understand or care about tuned vocals...its producers, label people, and the artists.
@@TonyBlackNYC oh I definitely agree with that, but I would add to that list "label/A&R" types. It does feel like when the commonly used tools are pushing things in the processed direction, it is noticeably different when you do things more naturally; and I wonder if label types and such will tend towards not appreciating "noticeably different" as a bad thing, even if they can't put their finger on what it is. I haven't spent a lot of time on that side of the industry so I could be wrong?
One of the guys who's TH-cam channel I follow (someone suggested best avoided - TB👀 LOL) frequently says in his videos that he always turns the frequency analyser display off because we should use our ears not our eyes.
avoid everyone...except me.
@@TonyBlackNYC LOL
@@TonyBlackNYCYo Tony, Dave Rat has a legit channel, as does Dan Worrall and your good self. The rest ->. I’m too busy working on mixes to watch YT.
I personally love FabFilter for its ease of use.
But 4000G 9000K Trident Neve Yamaha etc taught me to use my ears ->.
I’m too busy to look ->.
It’s fast ->.
3 90sec adverting spots in 8 hrs ->.
I’m $15k better off ->.
It pays the bills ->.
If it was the first Eq I ever used, yeah total head fvck ->.
If I’m working on actual creative material, then I might start being discerning. .
Experience vs tool are very different things.
How many viewers here actually make a decent living from these tools ?
Dig yr channel.
Thanks.
Layers 🍰🍰🍰
@@82DC 🔥👊🔥
@@drindy5166 😋😋😂
white hot call-out mr. black
these people are content creators first... 'top 5 secrets pro mixing engineers use'... you know you're not going to learn anything new.
real
Savage
If musicians would go back to shopping with their ears instead of their eyes, the gear would actually get better but these days they spend more money on the interface or how it looks than anything else
Take the mask off! Turn off the 4k monitor… use you ears 😂
So much mixing now seems to be about avoiding mixing. We used to call that sequencing.
I call it guessing.
If you're going to go surgical EQ, go Gyraf G21 aka Magneto-Dynamic Infundibulum.
The G21 clips in a multi-band fashion, but removes the harmonics that are generated by clipping and redirects those harmonics into powering meters. What a phenomenal invention! Not only do you remove the smeary harmonics that interfere with the delightful clipping, but you use those same harmonics to generate energy that powers the meters.
Check it out dudes.
If you're not familiar with the Gyraf G21, I guess the best thing I can compare it to is the Urei 565T (lil' dipper lol). The classic notch and filter device from aeons ago. I got a couple of them.
The difference being that the G21 offers insanely innovative clipping opportunity beyond just simple notch cuts and filters.
Yeah I get annoyed with the nit picking surgical mumbo jumbo’s that are afraid of horrifying phase shifting issues but start using eq before even getting the balance right 🥐