I have so many videos (short and live streams) talking about Kill Switches and most people really don't understand the significance yet. I keep getting asked the same questions about Android and the answer is always the same. Android hardware has no kill switches.
Kill switches are an inconvenient....they break and get activated on accident...people want to just use their device...they don't want to hide from FBI
@@robbraxmantech I like how you differentiated between Pine64 and Purism's approach to software. Purism will also be supporting the Librem 5 with their Librem One service as well as having the convergence feature of Pure OS. Your "Catch Man in the Middle" app could hopefully be ported over to any device running PureOS. Great work man.
I haven't rushed the Catch MITM app because I don't have a phone to use it on. But I want to see how this all compares with UBPorts next week. The Pinephone is compatible with UBPorts. Unfortunately it is so time consuming to test and program in so many different environments. I spent time focusing on Gnome because of PureOS and am going to use Libhandy next. But can I get all these running on UBports which runs Unity? The Linux world is so fragmented. I guess it's the nature of the beast but also what keeps it from being mainstream.
@@robbraxmantech The fragmentation is a strength and a weakness. It's getting better though. Also, I remember Purism saying they'll have a post in the future about attempts to get UBports, Plasma and PostmarketOS working on the Librem 5. Should help your efforts. P.S. Found it : "Can the operating system the Librem 5 ships with (the GNU/Linux based PureOS) be replaced with another operating system? A: Yes! There are community efforts underway to port UBports, Plasma, and PostmarketOS to the Librem 5. We will be publishing a blog post soon with details about the progress of these projects. However, Purism has invested heavily in PureOS for the Librem 5 and will only be able to support PureOS on the Librem 5 directly." Link : puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/
Yes I've seen that post. We shall see. Nothing is ever as simple as it looks. For example, you have to compile your own Libhandy. I'm not an extensive Linux Desktop Environment user so it can be extremely difficult for an average user (it's tedious even for me and I'm an expert!) since there are so many fragmented instructions (even the instructions are fragmented). The programming is actually the easy part. Getting an evironment set up is the hardest. And then this has to be packaged to work on all these environments.
@@donkey7921 good for you. Keep adoring the corporations that enslave humanity.. only if you knew.. I bet you wear your CV muzzle too. Or is it a face diaper??
I'm so excited for GNU/Linux phones. I wish Canonical would have kept going with the Ubuntu phone. Then we'd have another cool option. No, I was never a fan of Unity Desktop or Touch, but a little variety never killed anything. I'm looking forward to abandoning Google's piss poor excuse for a modified Linux platform.
Amazing video Rob, thank you! I'm a little heartbroken that no one else in the tech sphere (even other FOSS enthusiasts) aren't as excited as I am to see these projects succeed. I'm happy to see many are making videos like this though, spreading the info and talking about why this is such an important event!
I was missing a Linux phone which is worth buying for a long time. Now, it is only a question of time until I buy a Pinephone. And it is only a question of time, until I don t use my Android phone anymore. Great review from a great reviewer.
I think that the primary objective of the two organisations is different. Purism wanted to make a privacy-focused phone and have used Linux to get there. Pine64 wanted to make a Linux phone for the community to play with. It's a hobby device and the price reflect that. Pine64 also has a smartwatch coming out soon~ish for $20! They make laptops that sell for $200. They are not in it for massive profit, these are for the community.
I agree with you. Fortunately though, Pine64 did integrate some privacy features with the hardware switch though not as convenient. But this enables developers to play with that. Those looking at various Linux phone variants using Android hardware are missing the big picture that these are the only two models that can stop the spy modules on these phones. I like Pine64's Rock64 too but kinda big for my projects.
I think the Librem5 is more expensive because of economies of scale. They used parts that are lower run because they didn't compromise at all on the FOSS. Whereas the PinePhone has some proprietary binaries because they chose the parts that other major phone companies were using. It's also chunkier for the sake of FOSS. For example the radio on the Librem5 goes into a good old m2 slot like a laptop.
Cant you just flash linux to the Samsung phone? I would try it, but im using the Galaxy K Zoom, and im guessing it would be very difficult to find camera apps that can compare to the stock camera software. Unless some developers have made it especially for this phone...
@@Heathmcdonald Well... I find plenty of videos on how to "flash Linux on Android devices": th-cam.com/users/results?search_query=flash+linux+on+android+device
Great video! People everywhere really need to take privacy issues very seriously. Please continue the work and bring2022 updates to these privacy technologies.
This is a terrific review and gave me a better understanding of phone security as well as recent linux phone advancements. Thanks for putting this together!
Your analogy is patently incorrect. Both iOS and Android have a file system. Access to those file systems are just very restricted, more so on iOS than Android. Nevertheless, to say neither of these operating systems have a file system is just wrong.
Rob probably meant to say "presents no file system" to the user in stead of "has no file system". It's just simplifying an explanation. Of course Rob understands that IOS and Android are BSD & Linux based and use an internal file system, but now a days file systems are increasingly hidden from users to offer paid services for user access to personal files. So called customer lock-in.
@@shopsheaven OK, that makes sense , but saying "it has no filesystem" is like saying all storage happens not on the phone but "elsewhere" and that's not possible , at least not with the way things are setup today... It's a very inaccurate statement
this shouldn't be a competition, it should be a collaboration. i really hope for a compatible or even joined app store. dir linux to be a force to be reckoned with at some point compatibility should be as high as possible. hopefully we can avoid the degree of fragmentation we have in the desktop side at least until there are a several phones established with linux
I'm just happy that the Librem 5 is actually shipping. It's been delayed for a loooong time. I'm debating getting it but I know that battery life and other convenience factors make it less attractive but boy it is nice to have more control over my own device.
Well I do not expect to get it till March, based on their delay announcements. So in the meantime, watch my video on Ubports Ubuntu Touch. A Linux phone today.
I can't believe there isn't insane amounts of popular demand for privacy minded phones they really can't even seem to make them fast enough for such a small group of tech heads. Until then I'll just have to carry around my literal brick; at least I know it's not spying on me and if a situation gets really sticky I can just chuck it in the direction danger is coming from.
I'm very excited about the idea of a Librem 5, and I hope it develops into a more finalized product. Of course that involves people buying their current product, like you did. That's great! They need the support. But it's a bit hard from the point of view of someone with a Snapdragon 835 phone to justify spending MORE than what my SD835 phone cost me on a phone with performance several times smaller. I want the privacy and security of the Linux OS and the cleverly arranged hardware, but I'm turned off by the performance / dollar of the L5. I hope that someday it gets easier to do these things. In the meantime, i've been considering the option of perhaps using an LTE receiver to enable internet for my linux laptop, since that's a device I consider more secure than any Android/Iphone, and simply turning off the LTE receiver when I'm not using it. But i need to think about this more.
@Rob the Coretex M4 is an MCU which has real-time processing capabilities (important for talking directly to hardware) and it's very low-power but still runs ARM binaries. So it is used as a platform control chip with duties like hardware bring-up, power management, gathering data from sensors, halting the big cores during sleep, handling and/or steering the interrupts from things like the touch, buttons, and radio controllers, waking the big cores and powering on the display when a call comes in or you raise the phone etc, and the spare cycles can be used for wake word detection if you're into that and it's in the power budget. The Pinephone will also have an MCU for platform control, but probably a much less capable one since they didn't advertise it.
Thank you. I actually missed an important point which I discussed in my Livestream. Only the Librem 5 is immune from an attack by bad firmware on the main memory.
Wow! I subscribed because of the excellent info on privacy and getting away from big tech entirely. I am NOT a techie, but i catch quite a bit of what you are saying. But I have a question about non-technical folks being able to make the move to Linux everything. How steep is the learning curve for non-techies to adopt not only OS, but to phones, etc. ? Are there adequate apps and programs to lose all MS and Google junk?
Regardless of all the privacy issues Google has destroyed everything that made me like Android. Drive Sync, Inbox, AMP pages (I HATE Amp pages), Assistant installed by default, attempting to kill Adblock.....
Nice overview. I review ARM SBC's and would love to review these. I never used a smart-phone and don't want one. My SBC's do all my computer tasks. From desktop pc with NanoPi M4V2, video editing wit Odroid N2, laptop with the Khadas VIM3. Small handheld with Raspberry Pi2b and Odroid C2. But these phones now look like something I'd want to use. Can't afford them, so don't think I'll get them. But you never know. Thank you or the good info. Greetins.
Very cool. I work mostly with RPI. But would like to test others. But found that other SBC's like a Pine64 does not have FCC approval in the US. Problematic for resale.
I would think some of these companies would be paid to fail. How about some links to these 2 phones? Would be interested in a Librem5. 100% agree the transmission of data is the issue.
Thanks for the great video, and thanks for everybody who are interested in privacy and security, special thanks to those who keep talking why these are the cornerstone of any free society, and how to best protect these rights.
I understand the importance of hardware kill switches and the work Purism is doing, but the price ratio between the Pinephone and the Librem 5...ouch. It's not big enough of an upgrade in terms of specs to justify the $700 price tag. Don't get me wrong I really want a Librem 5, but they're not making it easy. For that price they really should be offering a bit more in terms of hardware specs.
The Librem 5 will probably have fast charging, because it has the chips for it. The NXP i.MX 8M Quad processor in the Librem 5 supports outputting a 4K display over HDMI and DisplayPort, whereas the Allwinner A64 in the PinePhone is limited to 1080p displays, but HDMI requires a binary blob, so the Librem 5 will probably have to add a DSI -> DisplayPort Alt Mode adapter chip, so we don't know if we will get 4k video output. The Allwinner A64 is limited to 3GB RAM and a 5MP camera, whereas the i.MX 8M can use up to 8GB of LPDDR4 RAM and its CSI interface can deal with a lot more camera/video input. The hardware kill switches in the PinePhone will be DIP switches which can only be accessed by pealing off the plastic back, so not designed for daily use. The PinePhone will have a 6 Pogo pins for adding mods to the back of the phone, so someone might make a mod to add good hardware kill switches. The Librem 5 is 15 mm thick, compared to 9.2 mm thick in the PinePhone. We are paying for 2.5 years of development with the Librem 5 and a free hardware license, whereas we are only paying for 1 year of development and non-free schematics with the PinePhone. The Librem 5 will have two extra Cortex-M4 cores. One will be used during bootup to load the proprietary code to train the DDR PHY. The other will be used to run the smart card reader. For more details, see: forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827
Are you an insider? I have a little worry that I the CPU of both are not fast enough. I just released a video on Ubports on a Oneplus One which is a Snapdragon CPU Quadcore 2.5GHZ. This is a 2014 phone. The i.MX8M is only 1.5GHZ (though it has an auxiliary core) but the rest of the specs are similiar to the older phone. Why would someone pay $700 for something that a $60 phone can do?
It does, but most phone manufacturers lock you out of it, or you're limited to manipulating files within the framework of file browser apps either included on the phone in the ROM, or available on the app store.
@@needsLITHIUM root permission is not provided. You have to gain it by modifying the bootloader and/or rom. But after that you can access all of the partitions. Use Termux, that'll give you Linux privileges on Android.
I've debated this and answered this a million times already so you can read my responses below. Your idea of a filesystem and mine just doesn't match. But as an Android developer, please understand that I'm not stupid. Thank you.
@@robbraxmantech No I don't think you are stupid. You have far more knowledge than me on this topic. What I meant to say was that Android got a file system that a normal smartphone user will need. For simple tasks like copy/cut/paste/delete.
I concede that there is SOME ability to transfer files to limited areas, DEPENDING ON THE DEVICE and ANDROID VERSION, and IF the app in question allows it. And certainly this is NOT even doable on IOS. But this whole debate on what a "file system" is is detracting from the point I was making about "Convergence" which is Desktop = Mobile. Having a million workarounds is not convergence. A Linux phone is exactly the same file sytem as a Linux desktop. I don't need to root anything, run some zucking ADB and Fastboot and enable some "developer options"
11:51 "pinephone is compatible with samsung j7 3500mAh battery" , can you give an example of these batteries ? maybe post a URL to an image for me to see it and try by my self to find it in amazon or ebay? Thank you!
Definitely looking forward to your reviews of both devices. All the other TH-cam phone reviewers won't know what they have in front of them. Will be agonizing to hear them try to compare them to existing mainstream smartphones. Please don't use the "feels good in the hand/premium feel" it's a BS point as most smart people use cases and sleeves to protect their devices.
I'm not a fan boy of any product Corey. I will tell you how it is. And as you can already see my style, I'm pretty detailed. I'm not going to take a comparison spec sheet and make assumptions. Unfortunately, I'm limited in my assessment to what I can research and it took awhile to research. But there will be honesty in my evaluations.
That sounds good. I'm concerned about security, but don't know much about cellphones. Do I need a new number? Is there a certain provider that I need? Lots of questions.
You need a new number, careful where you input it or who you give it to, business/apps wise and get one of these two phones or de google phone or you can even pay to have someone de Google your phone but that’s never certain so I’ll just start from scratch if I were you. Don’t sleep on it and go get a new phone and new number. Lol.
The Pinephone seems a better idea, at lower price it will be more interesting in emerging markets. Plus I'm not too inclined for thinkering on a phone which is too expensive
Looking forward now after intense research on these two devices, I hope the next version is a lot faster. I fear that these two (which have similar CPU's), will not have the performance to bring in the users.
I'm sure your a busy person yet I'd like to hear your thoughts on the differences between the Librem 5 and their slightly upgraded Liberty phone. I believe there are less issues with part outsourcing (similar to the Librem 5 USA) and the CPU and storage is a bit better, however for the extra cost it's hard for me to justify being that I'm on a limited budget. That said it sure is compelling and I do love the work and support behind it along with its functionality and construction.
I appreciate your dedication to security and privacy. Your comments about "Android doesn't have a filesystem" are way off base. I've been using Root Explorer 10 years, since my very first smartphone (the Android-running HTC Desire). I can easily copy or move files, including to/from internal/external storage. I can easily upload files in any one of a variety of ways, including via web browser. I can't if your inaccurate description here is intentional or because you aren't familiar with this specific topic.
2019, Librem 5 $700.- 2022, Librem 5 $1299.- but waitinglist 1 year?! 2022, Librem 5 $2000.- made in USA... Salling today the SAME Libre 5 as 2019 (tech is changing so fast, so this is almost vintage?), and if you as a company still cant fix your problems with delivery the device for the alreay paid for costomers, plus the software stil not running 100% smoothly after 3 years. I personal still should consider to buy because I think they had a great concept, Corona also play a role, and if we want more privacy matter from they or other companys we need to support them for show our back-up to they. BUT, it was not our fault economy shut down, and the intern problems from Librem company... By Raise almost double the price to $1299.- what no one shall buy knowing 1 year for deliver. By Raise almost triple the price to $2000.- Gives me a verry bad taste and walked away to even think about buying a screenprotector from them USA made company... (iPhones made in China, half the world use them..) (next year is 4 x $700,- price?)
So the Librem 5 is slightly better than the Pinephone but not 4-5 times better despite being 4-5 times more expensive But the incresed privacy features over the pinephone might be worth it personally i could buy a pinephone not as my daily driver , but as a secondary device "just in case" if you catch my meaning
1:35 iOS does have a File System. It's called Apple File System (APFL). What you mean is a File Browser.
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You forgot the software side which makes a huge difference: the IM.X 8 has like no power saving and is going to be fresh in mainline. It will take much optimization. I can't really get that you forget Sailfish OS and don't take the software eco system into account.Pure OS has no working eco system. Applications needs to be ported like for any other mobile OS.UB Ports and Sailfish OS already have working eco systems and more wide range of devices.
@@robbraxmantech ``` My point though is convergence (of mobile and desktop). Consistent, predictable, file structure so you can do the same things from mobile to pc. Having a locked down device where you can only look through little portholes is not the same thing. I understand that most people think of really basic tasks here but I am an Android developer among other things. And certainly I cannot manually update a file on my own apps. ``` Perhaps you mean this? If so, I would still arguing that "locked down system" doesn't mean that there is "no file system" technically, however from the context, perhaps you are trying to say that user of "locked down system" don't usually have full RW access within the file system. With that being said, unlike iOS, Android file system is definitely accessible enough to copy any type of files, just like what we do in desktop. "cannot manually update a file on my own apps", are you sure about this? developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data-storage Given that you have the required write permission, you could.
I am really excited about linux phones, but paying ~700$ for a 3GB/32GB phone is an overkill... Especially, I can install Ubuntu Touch on my old trusty OnePlus One.
@@robbraxmantech True, but I can't live with the 2GB limitation, there is only so much you can do. I was planning to have a "converging" phone that I could use with a docking station as a normal computer. When they release a linux phone with 2GB mem, they are shooting themselves in the foot. Let alone releasing a 3GB phone for 700$, that's just ridiculous!
The absence of a real filesystem, at least one that is accessible to the user is more prominent in Apple devices. When I first tried an Ipad I immediately noticed that at the time you could not create a real directory tree. Android being Linux is more flexible.
Thanks for the details Rob. I'm really disappointed that the hardware switches to disable sensors/antennas won't be readily accessible on the PinePhone. That might be a showstopper for me.
Librem $1999.00 vs Pine $149.00 ,($199.00 if you want the convergence hardware) unless Librem finds a better cost the better value is Pine. if you want to text and talk plus some apps like maps and calendar then Pine is Fine
Whats the diffrwence with the blackphone2 and the librum5, wich one is better? Wich one should i buy? Correct me if im wrong because i havent seen all your videos, but i cant find u explaining and talking qbout the stealthphones, i would love to hear your comments on those phones, and yeah also qbout the stealth sim cards
For me it is the price! PinePhones is affordable but the battery really sucks.. but i love my PinePhone! Connect it to my laptop when running Kali and using my PinePhone.. I connect my PineApple to it also, it is a awesome hack starter backpack :D You don’t have to take your laptop out of your bag, just use all Kali tools on the PinePhone ;)
Could either off these phones run Raspberry Pi apps (such as Valve Steam link) just by adding the repo as a PPA, or would those packages be way too optimized for the Pi's specific CPU to run generically on these phones? I think the lacking app ecosystems would be alleviated if they could do that.
Moving documents between Android phones and Windows (say) is relatively straightforward. Just set up a network share on your computer; or, use ftp (I do the latter using Filezilla). I'm able to move video (mkv), music (wav), images (jpg) and documents (Word, Excel and PowerPoint) with no problems. I'm more interested in Linux on the smartphone from a privacy perspective. I don't want Google snooping around/sharing my personal data.
also, they are not using the reference designs of other phones, this is to be able to include the sec features, also, the phone is modular and that has to be take into consideration, since all that costs money, lot of money to develop it
I expect so. But Purism's issue is to get SOC's without embedded Wifi and Baseband. That's more rare. As the demand for this design increase, then someone will strip those off the SOC's.
Wait what? with due respect Sir, Android has a file system. Hooking up a Android phone to your computer is also a non issue. many other reasons for using a open-source os on a smartphone though.
does the PinePhone work, Out Of The Box ? or are there an OS to be installed, the pine site was down for maint last I looked and cant see much, Looks like it does have an OS installed but you can install other flavors
It’s actually really sad to see how little excitement the tech community is giving hardware kill switches.
I have so many videos (short and live streams) talking about Kill Switches and most people really don't understand the significance yet. I keep getting asked the same questions about Android and the answer is always the same. Android hardware has no kill switches.
@@robbraxmantech I prefer the pre-recorded videos over livestreams for informative information.
And you decided to make this comment on youtube?
@@cathalsurfs what the hell is your metacomment supposed to mean?
Kill switches are an inconvenient....they break and get activated on accident...people want to just use their device...they don't want to hide from FBI
This is exactly the kind of breakdown between these products that people really need to see. Thank you Rob.
Tried to be much more detailed than other reviewers. Thank you man
@@robbraxmantech I like how you differentiated between Pine64 and Purism's approach to software. Purism will also be supporting the Librem 5 with their Librem One service as well as having the convergence feature of Pure OS. Your "Catch Man in the Middle" app could hopefully be ported over to any device running PureOS. Great work man.
I haven't rushed the Catch MITM app because I don't have a phone to use it on. But I want to see how this all compares with UBPorts next week. The Pinephone is compatible with UBPorts.
Unfortunately it is so time consuming to test and program in so many different environments. I spent time focusing on Gnome because of PureOS and am going to use Libhandy next. But can I get all these running on UBports which runs Unity?
The Linux world is so fragmented. I guess it's the nature of the beast but also what keeps it from being mainstream.
@@robbraxmantech The fragmentation is a strength and a weakness. It's getting better though. Also, I remember Purism saying they'll have a post in the future about attempts to get UBports, Plasma and PostmarketOS working on the Librem 5. Should help your efforts.
P.S. Found it : "Can the operating system the Librem 5 ships with (the GNU/Linux based PureOS) be replaced with another operating system?
A: Yes! There are community efforts underway to port UBports, Plasma, and PostmarketOS to the Librem 5. We will be publishing a blog post soon with details about the progress of these projects. However, Purism has invested heavily in PureOS for the Librem 5 and will only be able to support PureOS on the Librem 5 directly."
Link : puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/
Yes I've seen that post. We shall see. Nothing is ever as simple as it looks. For example, you have to compile your own Libhandy. I'm not an extensive Linux Desktop Environment user so it can be extremely difficult for an average user (it's tedious even for me and I'm an expert!) since there are so many fragmented instructions (even the instructions are fragmented).
The programming is actually the easy part. Getting an evironment set up is the hardest. And then this has to be packaged to work on all these environments.
Your channel is so underrated, you are great man, thank you
Apple profit:
Cost of device $200-300
The rest is profit.
Keeping iDiots on the yearly upgrade treadmill - Priceless.
Exactly. And of course iCloud and accessories.
At least they give you something that is not shit
Exactly
@@donkey7921 until Apple decides to slow down your iPhone .. that you paid for... forcing you to upgrade... you get abused And you love it.
@@donkey7921 good for you. Keep adoring the corporations that enslave humanity.. only if you knew..
I bet you wear your CV muzzle too. Or is it a face diaper??
I've been looking for a phone like this that's not Android/iPhone...and you hit it right on the nail.
Thanks!!
i am poor, so obviously Pinephone from my side.
Partial solution - Ubports
@Agnish Roy Thank you for introducing me to Replicant OS
I'm so excited for GNU/Linux phones. I wish Canonical would have kept going with the Ubuntu phone. Then we'd have another cool option. No, I was never a fan of Unity Desktop or Touch, but a little variety never killed anything.
I'm looking forward to abandoning Google's piss poor excuse for a modified Linux platform.
Trying out Ubuntu Touch shortly! Next week's video
@@robbraxmantech please talk about nokia n9 - meego os
And their endless spyware
Rob, that was an excellent review. Keep up the great work, sir.
Amazing video Rob, thank you! I'm a little heartbroken that no one else in the tech sphere (even other FOSS enthusiasts) aren't as excited as I am to see these projects succeed. I'm happy to see many are making videos like this though, spreading the info and talking about why this is such an important event!
Too bad things aren't moving faster! (delays in getting devices). Thank you!
Rob thank you so much for covering this stuff. I work on Linux at work and this excites me.
Wow my man gave out details on the specs and everything. You have my Sub...like yo style brotha!
Thanks dude!
Lot of info, watched all the way through 3 times and still overwhelmed. Thank you for all your hard work. Gods blessings.
I was missing a Linux phone which is worth buying for a long time. Now, it is only a question of time until I buy a Pinephone. And it is only a question of time, until I don t use my Android phone anymore. Great review from a great reviewer.
Appreciated!
I think that the primary objective of the two organisations is different. Purism wanted to make a privacy-focused phone and have used Linux to get there. Pine64 wanted to make a Linux phone for the community to play with. It's a hobby device and the price reflect that. Pine64 also has a smartwatch coming out soon~ish for $20! They make laptops that sell for $200. They are not in it for massive profit, these are for the community.
I agree with you. Fortunately though, Pine64 did integrate some privacy features with the hardware switch though not as convenient. But this enables developers to play with that.
Those looking at various Linux phone variants using Android hardware are missing the big picture that these are the only two models that can stop the spy modules on these phones.
I like Pine64's Rock64 too but kinda big for my projects.
I think the Librem5 is more expensive because of economies of scale. They used parts that are lower run because they didn't compromise at all on the FOSS. Whereas the PinePhone has some proprietary binaries because they chose the parts that other major phone companies were using. It's also chunkier for the sake of FOSS. For example the radio on the Librem5 goes into a good old m2 slot like a laptop.
Look forward to more content on these phones, especially the Librem 5.
Lots more coming...including live stream tonight
This sort of info is needed for the public to start finally use the RIGHT toys. Thank you Rob for this!
Finally a reason for ditching my Samsung S8.
Finally a reason for ditching my Samsung S5, haha. 2020 still rockin it.
@@allegoricalstatue compare samsung specs to that garbage and you won't be ditching anything soon.
Cant you just flash linux to the Samsung phone? I would try it, but im using the Galaxy K Zoom, and im guessing it would be very difficult to find camera apps that can compare to the stock camera software. Unless some developers have made it especially for this phone...
@@EspenFrafalne no, locked bootloader on most Qualcomm phones
@@Heathmcdonald Well... I find plenty of videos on how to "flash Linux on Android devices": th-cam.com/users/results?search_query=flash+linux+on+android+device
Your videos are excellent RB and so many of us are thankful for your service and superb knowledge.
An awesome comparison review!
I would say the best of what I"ve seen!
Great content; of which is very appreciative knowledge wise, e.z. to follow, & your mic. skills are impeccable, lol... you rock ! T.Y.
Mr. Braxman, I genuinely than you, for introducing me to "LBRY"
Great video! People everywhere really need to take privacy issues very seriously. Please continue the work and bring2022 updates to these privacy technologies.
Have my eyes on the Librem5 since the very beginning, signed up for their news letter. Cat wait to get my hands on one. It is very pricy though.
Dude, thanks for posting.
This is a terrific review and gave me a better understanding of phone security as well as recent linux phone advancements. Thanks for putting this together!
Your analogy is patently incorrect. Both iOS and Android have a file system. Access to those file systems are just very restricted, more so on iOS than Android. Nevertheless, to say neither of these operating systems have a file system is just wrong.
Rob probably meant to say "presents no file system" to the user in stead of "has no file system". It's just simplifying an explanation. Of course Rob understands that IOS and Android are BSD & Linux based and use an internal file system, but now a days file systems are increasingly hidden from users to offer paid services for user access to personal files. So called customer lock-in.
@@shopsheaven OK, that makes sense , but saying "it has no filesystem" is like saying all storage happens not on the phone but "elsewhere" and that's not possible , at least not with the way things are setup today... It's a very inaccurate statement
Great content mate, keep fighting the good fight
I'll be adding postmarket OS repos onto the Librem 5
You'll do it yourself? What about the drivers? and Telephony?
Id love to see some roms such as lineage but i would rather build off whats there
this shouldn't be a competition, it should be a collaboration. i really hope for a compatible or even joined app store. dir linux to be a force to be reckoned with at some point compatibility should be as high as possible.
hopefully we can avoid the degree of fragmentation we have in the desktop side at least until there are a several phones established with linux
I'm just happy that the Librem 5 is actually shipping. It's been delayed for a loooong time. I'm debating getting it but I know that battery life and other convenience factors make it less attractive but boy it is nice to have more control over my own device.
Well I do not expect to get it till March, based on their delay announcements. So in the meantime, watch my video on Ubports Ubuntu Touch. A Linux phone today.
I can't believe there isn't insane amounts of popular demand for privacy minded phones they really can't even seem to make them fast enough for such a small group of tech heads. Until then I'll just have to carry around my literal brick; at least I know it's not spying on me and if a situation gets really sticky I can just chuck it in the direction danger is coming from.
I have some sort of an alternative! I'm getting it next week and we'll see if there's time to make a video.
simple: prize and old tech, most tech heads also love new tech.
I'm very excited about the idea of a Librem 5, and I hope it develops into a more finalized product. Of course that involves people buying their current product, like you did. That's great! They need the support.
But it's a bit hard from the point of view of someone with a Snapdragon 835 phone to justify spending MORE than what my SD835 phone cost me on a phone with performance several times smaller. I want the privacy and security of the Linux OS and the cleverly arranged hardware, but I'm turned off by the performance / dollar of the L5.
I hope that someday it gets easier to do these things. In the meantime, i've been considering the option of perhaps using an LTE receiver to enable internet for my linux laptop, since that's a device I consider more secure than any Android/Iphone, and simply turning off the LTE receiver when I'm not using it. But i need to think about this more.
Thank you for your talented review.
It's really impressive
Glad you liked it!
@Rob the Coretex M4 is an MCU which has real-time processing capabilities (important for talking directly to hardware) and it's very low-power but still runs ARM binaries. So it is used as a platform control chip with duties like hardware bring-up, power management, gathering data from sensors, halting the big cores during sleep, handling and/or steering the interrupts from things like the touch, buttons, and radio controllers, waking the big cores and powering on the display when a call comes in or you raise the phone etc, and the spare cycles can be used for wake word detection if you're into that and it's in the power budget. The Pinephone will also have an MCU for platform control, but probably a much less capable one since they didn't advertise it.
Pinpoint accuracy in the overview of each and good historical value of where the code came from.
Thank you. I actually missed an important point which I discussed in my Livestream. Only the Librem 5 is immune from an attack by bad firmware on the main memory.
Very good rundown, thanks
Wow! I subscribed because of the excellent info on privacy and getting away from big tech entirely. I am NOT a techie, but i catch quite a bit of what you are saying. But I have a question about non-technical folks being able to make the move to Linux everything. How steep is the learning curve for non-techies to adopt not only OS, but to phones, etc. ? Are there adequate apps and programs to lose all MS and Google junk?
i enjoy your videos like a sunday sermon. My best new year wishes to you and happy Linux-ing to everybody.
Thank you!
Thank you seriously considering giving up my tracker (iphone)... and moving towards linux phones.
I should be getting the 2nd run of the librem 5 soon.
You got a batch confirmation?
@@robbraxmantech Not yet. I picked the 2nd run on up to final product. I didn't want to get the first run.
Can you explain how a custom rom like lineage os would be different from Ubuntu touch in terms of privacy.
Regardless of all the privacy issues Google has destroyed everything that made me like Android. Drive Sync, Inbox, AMP pages (I HATE Amp pages), Assistant installed by default, attempting to kill Adblock.....
Just root and use package disabler to remove google bloat; everyone always complains about google when their apps are just bloat..
Use Brave browser
Nice overview. I review ARM SBC's and would love to review these. I never used a smart-phone and don't want one. My SBC's do all my computer tasks. From desktop pc with NanoPi M4V2, video editing wit Odroid N2, laptop with the Khadas VIM3. Small handheld with Raspberry Pi2b and Odroid C2.
But these phones now look like something I'd want to use. Can't afford them, so don't think I'll get them. But you never know. Thank you or the good info. Greetins.
Very cool. I work mostly with RPI. But would like to test others. But found that other SBC's like a Pine64 does not have FCC approval in the US. Problematic for resale.
I would think some of these companies would be paid to fail. How about some links to these 2 phones? Would be interested in a Librem5.
100% agree the transmission of data is the issue.
Thanks for going into such a deep dive on this.
THANK YOU FOR A GREAT COMPARISON!
Ni Hao Rob , nice channel subbed !!! Stay blessed
If Google is the front end of NSA, then this is a very promising future 🙏 Love the music @ end of video thanks ❤️
Hi Rob, very instructive video! which you recommend for storing safely crypto, such as monero?
Thanks for the great video, and thanks for everybody who are interested in privacy and security, special thanks to those who keep talking why these are the cornerstone of any free society, and how to best protect these rights.
I understand the importance of hardware kill switches and the work Purism is doing, but the price ratio between the Pinephone and the Librem 5...ouch. It's not big enough of an upgrade in terms of specs to justify the $700 price tag. Don't get me wrong I really want a Librem 5, but they're not making it easy. For that price they really should be offering a bit more in terms of hardware specs.
Watch my new video on GNU/Linux phone to get today
The Librem 5 will probably have fast charging, because it has the chips for it. The NXP i.MX 8M Quad processor in the Librem 5 supports outputting a 4K display over HDMI and DisplayPort, whereas the Allwinner A64 in the PinePhone is limited to 1080p displays, but HDMI requires a binary blob, so the Librem 5 will probably have to add a DSI -> DisplayPort Alt Mode adapter chip, so we don't know if we will get 4k video output. The Allwinner A64 is limited to 3GB RAM and a 5MP camera, whereas the i.MX 8M can use up to 8GB of LPDDR4 RAM and its CSI interface can deal with a lot more camera/video input. The hardware kill switches in the PinePhone will be DIP switches which can only be accessed by pealing off the plastic back, so not designed for daily use. The PinePhone will have a 6 Pogo pins for adding mods to the back of the phone, so someone might make a mod to add good hardware kill switches. The Librem 5 is 15 mm thick, compared to 9.2 mm thick in the PinePhone. We are paying for 2.5 years of development with the Librem 5 and a free hardware license, whereas we are only paying for 1 year of development and non-free schematics with the PinePhone. The Librem 5 will have two extra Cortex-M4 cores. One will be used during bootup to load the proprietary code to train the DDR PHY. The other will be used to run the smart card reader.
For more details, see: forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827
Excellent!
Are you an insider? I have a little worry that I the CPU of both are not fast enough. I just released a video on Ubports on a Oneplus One which is a Snapdragon CPU Quadcore 2.5GHZ. This is a 2014 phone. The i.MX8M is only 1.5GHZ (though it has an auxiliary core) but the rest of the specs are similiar to the older phone.
Why would someone pay $700 for something that a $60 phone can do?
"free hardware licence" and "proprietary code for training DDR PHY". yup, that open schmopen sauce "philosophy" in one sentence, everybody.
1:34 Android does have a file system.
It does, but most phone manufacturers lock you out of it, or you're limited to manipulating files within the framework of file browser apps either included on the phone in the ROM, or available on the app store.
@@needsLITHIUM root permission is not provided. You have to gain it by modifying the bootloader and/or rom. But after that you can access all of the partitions. Use Termux, that'll give you Linux privileges on Android.
I've debated this and answered this a million times already so you can read my responses below. Your idea of a filesystem and mine just doesn't match. But as an Android developer, please understand that I'm not stupid. Thank you.
@@robbraxmantech No I don't think you are stupid. You have far more knowledge than me on this topic. What I meant to say was that Android got a file system that a normal smartphone user will need. For simple tasks like copy/cut/paste/delete.
I concede that there is SOME ability to transfer files to limited areas, DEPENDING ON THE DEVICE and ANDROID VERSION, and IF the app in question allows it. And certainly this is NOT even doable on IOS.
But this whole debate on what a "file system" is is detracting from the point I was making about "Convergence" which is Desktop = Mobile. Having a million workarounds is not convergence. A Linux phone is exactly the same file sytem as a Linux desktop.
I don't need to root anything, run some zucking ADB and Fastboot and enable some "developer options"
I must sound like a broken record, but thanks again for all your time and effort in your videos and products. I really need a "Brax" tattoo :)
That's a great record! LOL. Thanks buddy!
11:51 "pinephone is compatible with samsung j7 3500mAh battery" , can you give an example of these batteries ? maybe post a URL to an image for me to see it and try by my self to find it in amazon or ebay? Thank you!
The best video on these phones thank you for doing this
Thank you!
Definitely looking forward to your reviews of both devices. All the other TH-cam phone reviewers won't know what they have in front of them. Will be agonizing to hear them try to compare them to existing mainstream smartphones. Please don't use the "feels good in the hand/premium feel" it's a BS point as most smart people use cases and sleeves to protect their devices.
I'm not a fan boy of any product Corey. I will tell you how it is. And as you can already see my style, I'm pretty detailed. I'm not going to take a comparison spec sheet and make assumptions. Unfortunately, I'm limited in my assessment to what I can research and it took awhile to research. But there will be honesty in my evaluations.
@@robbraxmantech That's why I subscribed. 👍
been waiting for a working linux phone since i was born.. come on 2020
That sounds good. I'm concerned about security, but don't know much about cellphones. Do I need a new number? Is there a certain provider that I need? Lots of questions.
You need a new number, careful where you input it or who you give it to, business/apps wise and get one of these two phones or de google phone or you can even pay to have someone de Google your phone but that’s never certain so I’ll just start from scratch if I were you. Don’t sleep on it and go get a new phone and new number. Lol.
The Pinephone seems a better idea, at lower price it will be more interesting in emerging markets. Plus I'm not too inclined for thinkering on a phone which is too expensive
Looking forward now after intense research on these two devices, I hope the next version is a lot faster. I fear that these two (which have similar CPU's), will not have the performance to bring in the users.
I'm sure your a busy person yet I'd like to hear your thoughts on the differences between the Librem 5 and their slightly upgraded Liberty phone. I believe there are less issues with part outsourcing (similar to the Librem 5 USA) and the CPU and storage is a bit better, however for the extra cost it's hard for me to justify being that I'm on a limited budget. That said it sure is compelling and I do love the work and support behind it along with its functionality and construction.
you're super on it. Love the video.
Thank you!
I appreciate your dedication to security and privacy.
Your comments about "Android doesn't have a filesystem" are way off base.
I've been using Root Explorer 10 years, since my very first smartphone (the Android-running HTC Desire). I can easily copy or move files, including to/from internal/external storage. I can easily upload files in any one of a variety of ways, including via web browser.
I can't if your inaccurate description here is intentional or because you aren't familiar with this specific topic.
Amazing breakdown! Thank you so much! I think this video secured my decision to switch from Apple to Librem 5
2019, Librem 5 $700.-
2022, Librem 5 $1299.- but waitinglist 1 year?!
2022, Librem 5 $2000.- made in USA...
Salling today the SAME Libre 5 as 2019 (tech is changing so fast, so this is almost vintage?),
and if you as a company still cant fix your problems with delivery the device for the alreay paid for costomers,
plus the software stil not running 100% smoothly after 3 years.
I personal still should consider to buy because I think they had a great concept, Corona also play a role, and if we want more privacy matter from they or other companys we need to support them for show our back-up to they.
BUT,
it was not our fault economy shut down,
and the intern problems from Librem company...
By Raise almost double the price to $1299.- what no one shall buy knowing 1 year for deliver.
By Raise almost triple the price to $2000.-
Gives me a verry bad taste and walked away to even think about buying a screenprotector from them USA made company... (iPhones made in China, half the world use them..)
(next year is 4 x $700,- price?)
So the Librem 5 is slightly better than the Pinephone but not 4-5 times better
despite being 4-5 times more expensive
But the incresed privacy features over the pinephone might be worth it
personally i could buy a pinephone not as my daily driver , but as a secondary device "just in case" if you catch my meaning
Outstanding overview.
thank you!
you can use nfs or smbd on android for file transfers. that's what i use. i have written a guide on it as well.
What network will the Librem 5 work on?
Regardless of how low speced the pinephone actually is, this phone will get me into Linux phones, and when purism makes a new phone, I’ll get it.
watch the new video on this coming up later today
1:35 iOS does have a File System. It's called Apple File System (APFL). What you mean is a File Browser.
You forgot the software side which makes a huge difference: the IM.X 8 has like no power saving and is going to be fresh in mainline. It will take much optimization.
I can't really get that you forget Sailfish OS and don't take the software eco system into account.Pure OS has no working eco system. Applications needs to be ported like for any other mobile OS.UB Ports and Sailfish OS already have working eco systems and more wide range of devices.
Thanks. Great video!
Purism had better develop a fantastic debian for phones! 2K USD for the US edition? That's an Apple iPhone 13!
thank you for the good technical assessment on device published details, Rob.
** very glad to see more persons focus on privacy and security.
thank you
Android has no file system? Say who?
Response was given below with same question
@@robbraxmantech
```
My point though is convergence (of mobile and desktop). Consistent, predictable, file structure so you can do the same things from mobile to pc. Having a locked down device where you can only look through little portholes is not the same thing.
I understand that most people think of really basic tasks here but I am an Android developer among other things. And certainly I cannot manually update a file on my own apps.
```
Perhaps you mean this? If so, I would still arguing that "locked down system" doesn't mean that there is "no file system" technically, however from the context, perhaps you are trying to say that user of "locked down system" don't usually have full RW access within the file system.
With that being said, unlike iOS, Android file system is definitely accessible enough to copy any type of files, just like what we do in desktop. "cannot manually update a file on my own apps", are you sure about this? developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data-storage
Given that you have the required write permission, you could.
I am really excited about linux phones, but paying ~700$ for a 3GB/32GB phone is an overkill...
Especially, I can install Ubuntu Touch on my old trusty OnePlus One.
Well a Pinepone is only $160. And it's pure Linux (not a Android hosted Linux)
@@robbraxmantech True, but I can't live with the 2GB limitation, there is only so much you can do. I was planning to have a "converging" phone that I could use with a docking station as a normal computer. When they release a linux phone with 2GB mem, they are shooting themselves in the foot. Let alone releasing a 3GB phone for 700$, that's just ridiculous!
Unfortunately these two phones are fairly close to each other in specs so if you expect super speed, it won't do it for you.
Price is the problem. Love the idea of Librem but want a lower end device somewhere around $300.
So privacy wise is the Librum 5 better than a de-googled phone?
Surely selling a mass market phone to bring the numbers to the platform is more important
The absence of a real filesystem, at least one that is accessible to the user is more prominent in Apple devices. When I first tried an Ipad I immediately noticed that at the time you could not create a real directory tree. Android being Linux is more flexible.
Thanks for the details Rob. I'm really disappointed that the hardware switches to disable sensors/antennas won't be readily accessible on the PinePhone. That might be a showstopper for me.
That would depend on how often you switch them. It's actually surprisingly easy on the Pinephone. Though it would be lot faster to do on a Librem 5
Librem $1999.00 vs Pine $149.00 ,($199.00 if you want the convergence hardware) unless Librem finds a better cost the better value is Pine. if you want to text and talk plus some apps like maps and calendar then Pine is Fine
Would be nice to have a real Linux based distro on a handset that has real privacy built in from the ground up and be able to tinker with.
Whats the diffrwence with the blackphone2 and the librum5, wich one is better? Wich one should i buy? Correct me if im wrong because i havent seen all your videos, but i cant find u explaining and talking qbout the stealthphones, i would love to hear your comments on those phones, and yeah also qbout the stealth sim cards
For me it is the price!
PinePhones is affordable but the battery really sucks.. but i love my PinePhone!
Connect it to my laptop when running Kali and using my PinePhone.. I connect my PineApple to it also, it is a awesome hack starter backpack :D
You don’t have to take your laptop out of your bag, just use all Kali tools on the PinePhone ;)
Could either off these phones run Raspberry Pi apps (such as Valve Steam link) just by adding the repo as a PPA, or would those packages be way too optimized for the Pi's specific CPU to run generically on these phones? I think the lacking app ecosystems would be alleviated if they could do that.
Raspberry PI's are Linux! So yes they will work on a Linux phone.
Thoughts on the XDA pro1 x?
Great video thanks
Moving documents between Android phones and Windows (say) is relatively straightforward. Just set up a network share on your computer; or, use ftp (I do the latter using Filezilla). I'm able to move video (mkv), music (wav), images (jpg) and documents (Word, Excel and PowerPoint) with no problems. I'm more interested in Linux on the smartphone from a privacy perspective. I don't want Google snooping around/sharing my personal data.
Android has a filesystem (though only rooted can access the whole file system), iOS‘s file explorer still isn’t ready yet IMO.
ok. At least your answer is more sensible than the others. And search for my answers below on this.
Have you done a review on the Pinephone Pro yet?
also, they are not using the reference designs of other phones, this is to be able to include the sec features, also, the phone is modular and that has to be take into consideration, since all that costs money, lot of money to develop it
Thank you ROB .I am hoping the Gemini phone will soon ? Come out without android . but I am only hope full. All the best
Will bet trying something out next week as an alternative. Not perfect but we will see.
Seeing as the SOC's are so cheap, i wonder if we might in the future get a higher end librem 5 or pinephone.
I expect so. But Purism's issue is to get SOC's without embedded Wifi and Baseband. That's more rare. As the demand for this design increase, then someone will strip those off the SOC's.
Rob what do you think about Tough Mobile 2, GSMK Cryptophone 500 and Blackberry passport? In terms of security I mean, so we dont get track by google
Wait what? with due respect Sir, Android has a file system. Hooking up a Android phone to your computer is also a non issue.
many other reasons for using a open-source os on a smartphone though.
Can we have a "Note" linux phone? Or can Samsung Note (and other brands) have an option of having linux installed instead of android?
Not at the moment
does the PinePhone work, Out Of The Box ? or are there an OS to be installed, the pine site was down for maint last I looked and cant see much, Looks like it does have an OS installed but you can install other flavors
Can you do a video on the ClearUnited phones? Do they do what they say?
Do either of these phones support 5G and / or Wifi 6 ?