Love seeing this FUN DIY videos !! Most of all Love that you take the time to teach your kids how thing work. Letting them be a part will give them skills that most adults will not have. Thanks for sharing with us. God Bless brother..
@@DavidPozEnergy - I have 3 daughters and I see that look often ... like a recent Ham antenna upgrade over the weekend -> "Nice 🤣 the roof gets dorkier"
Just a note on your project. You'll want to add a flyback diode to the coil side of that contactor. This will prevent the back EMF from frying the BMS. Neat project BTW. 🙂 Edit: For anyone skimming, this particular contactor has back EMF suppression built in, so this comment is incorrect.
@@DavidPozEnergy Sure thing! If you look up "flyback diode" everyone's favorite search engine provides helpful diagrams and info on the subject. Edit: Incase articles you read don't mention this, you'll want to place the diode as close to the inductor (the contactor's coil in this case) as possible.
I checked out the data sheet for this contactor. It's located here: batteryhookup.com/products/1-low-row-super-beast-headway-24v-48ah-1-23kwh The second paragraph on the left side says "limits back EMF to 0V". Is that the same thing as a "flyback diode"?
@@DavidPozEnergy Oh man, that's too cool! They built it right into the contactor! No further parts needed then. Edit: And yes, that back EMF is what we're trying to control/prevent. Long story short, when inductors are de-energized they attempt to push their stored energy back towards the source. This causes current to attempt to flow in the opposite direction it was during operation. With nowhere to go, because the circuit has opened, voltage rises massively and usually flashes over some poor little contact or electronic component damaging it. Things will usually tolerate this, but it leads to greatly shortened lifespan of components.
I am surprised and glad that we are doing the same thing. We have made hundreds of Truck SLI(Starting/Lighting/Ignition) & Vehicle Appliances 2 in 1 Battery(25.6V 240Ah 6.144kWh) and installed them on trucks in China and they are running well. The Discharge Continuous Current: Max 400A is for the electrical appliances in trucks like air conditioning, The Discharge Peak Current: 800A(5s) is for the engine SLI(Starting/Lighting/Ignition) of trucks.
What you are calling the current transformer should actually be a hall effect sensor. It's a solid-state device that measures the magnetic field produced around a single conductor, similar to the clamp on your multimeter. They are far more accurate and it doesn't actually draw current from the field to make its measurement. As you may know current doesn't actually flow through the wire but is propogated by the magnetic field surrounding the conductors. This is why current is able to travel at faster than the speed of light, determined by the separation of conductors divided by the speed of light. The hall effect sensor takes advantage of these physics.
Thank you. I appreciate the help with my terms. I thought a Hall effect sensor was a type of CT. But I don't have formal electronics training and I'm always trying to improve.
Who would have ever thought that the worlds brightest minds have the time to write an entire paragraph in a TH-cam comment, demonstrating superior intelligence to all who read. Thank you for your contributions to society.
Hi David, Love the channel have been watching you for a while. Definitely love seeing you grow as a content provider. Your jump pack for 24v systems gave me motivation to use this for a 12v jump pack, I do a lot of repairing vehicles and farm equipment and am tired of dragging around battery chargers and such. So I ordered the unit only to find there was no way I could do the 4s configuration with the existing plates, even if I cut the one plate I would only have 2 4s setups, not ideal. So I ordered the battery hookup extra set of plates and brackets and re-configured the setup into a 4s?p configuration. I have pictures and will probably post them on the comment section of the battery hookup page if I can. Anyways thank you for giving me the motivation!
Headway just read about them they have a 10c rate even higher than lithium titanate batteries which are a 5c rate and higher energy density!!! Only real question is if given enough load will the bms still respond reliably? Very nice build!!! I think you should make one with emp shielding and present it and maybe start building them for the military
I'm thinking this configuration would have limitations. If I understand correctly, the typical BMS will not be able to recognize charging condition and will therefore not activate balancing or high voltage cutoff. The BMS will actually think it's discharging even when charging due to relay current. I suppose you could reverse connections and it would think it's always charging and would continuously balance, but you would lose low voltage cutoff.
Big Clive (youtuber) has posted some interesting vids about how normal car jump start packs using lithium batteries work. Lots of their clever is in the little box usually in the +ve lead. PARTLY the sudden automotive alternator shouldn't recharge the jump battery.
@@DavidPozEnergy I have a 5 Kilowatt Diesel Generator that I run on waste veggie-oil that I get from a local restaurant. I let it settle for two weeks and then drill a small hole in the container above the water and food junk so I only get super clean oil. It drains slowly into cleanable 100 and 75 micron 5 gallon bucket filters. I then run it through cleanable polyester filter cartridges, at 20, 5 and 1 micron nominal. The final stage is thinning the viscosity with 30% Gasoline (petrol) during the winter months and 10-15% during the summer. I do not separate out the glycerol, because the petrol acting as a solvent works wonderful. Kilowatt for Kilowatt my generator costs less then the power grid which is $0.174 per kilowatt. Would you consider doing an episode on my process and give your opinion? There may be interest in these trying times.
Settling is a fantastic first step. Personally, I think settling needs to be done while warm. This could be a heated space, or a heated tank. Back when I was doing WVO I found a huge difference in the amount of water/particles that could settle when cold vs. when hot.
Hey, did you happen to figure out which wires are hooked up to the fan? I figured all the pins and connectors except for the fan and well the heater which I just learned watching your video. There are two red/blue pairs, one seems to be another 10k temp probe, I don't know what the other one goes to because it reads in the mega ohms and doesn't run the fan, or smoke anything, if I hook it to 24v.
Thanks for sharing David! This is an excellent use case for this battery pack!! Question: do you like your Harbor freight clamp meter seen in the video? Much appreciated & Happy New Years 🥳.
cool... though wonder if two 12v leads one keeps charged seems a ton more cost effective??? Are the advantages of lithium beside weight and faster re-charge (maybe)..... really any advantage in a jump pack thing?
Ive been looking for a jump pack for my truck. all of the commercially available options are either under powered to start a diesel or way too expensive. This looks like a viable option. I would have to convert it to 12v for my truck but I'd bet some changes to the buss bars would be all that is needed. Does the Relay need a 24v trigger?
Ha, maybe. I didn't think about that. I was out there so late at night. I'll have to try it again with one of my other meters. Thanks for calling it out.
Does this generator provide 3 phase power? I have a Gitchners mobile comms shelter, the type where you can daisy chain a bunch together to create a large operations center. It has a 100 amp 3 phase 60Hz and a 100 amp 3 phase 400Hz inputs with a daisy chain output for jumper cables to the next unit. It’s even equipped with 45,000 BTU ECU. BEEN LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO POWER IT BUT THE 3 phase units are huge!
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks for the info! I will have a friend look out for one since he bids on the auction sites. Any idea as to the price range considering these bids are sight and condition unseen?
ok, i don't get it. why use the small BMS to power the switch and not just run a wire directly to the switch in order to power the relay?? what did i miss? DON"T tell me they send this 'battery pack' without a BMS... besides, how did the pack enable/disable the relay to begin with?!?! guess i don't understand what you are starting with...
Sometimes battery packs are built without a BMS built-in. This is pretty common with server UPS (uninterruptable power supply) units. The UPS has the computer brains, which tells the relay to turn on or off. I don't know if this "super beast" battery was part of a UPS, or something else, but it has a wiring harness which would have connected to some higher level computer. Since I don't have the original application, I'm making my own. Yes, I could have turned on/off the relay with the switch directly. Or, removed the relay altogether. But, if I did that, then there would be no over-voltage protection, or under-voltage, etc. The BMS I added provides those protection features.
How come my superbeast from battery hookup didn’t come with all those beautiful aluminum covers? I took a superbeast and converted it to 12v using all of those cells and want to use it on my dump trailer for the battery. Should I be able to use that contactor with a cheap bms the same way? Is that a fuse in there coming from the positive to the contactor?
I'm guessing you have a 12V pump for the dump control? And, that you want a battery on board for using the dump option without needing the truck wired in? If that's correct, then I'd first check what the Amp draw is of the 12V pump. If it's less than 100A (which it probably is) then I'd simply use a 100A BMS: batteryhookup.com/products/12v-lifepo4-smart-bms-w-low-temp-cutoff No need for a relay. Yes, the fuse is on the positive side. When I got the super-beast, Battery Hookup was offering 2 options in their website, one with the aluminum enclosure, and one without. I don't know if they still offer both options or not.
@DavidPozEnergy yes it has a 12v pump. The amp draw gets into 250 or more under a load but the winch draws 350+. It has a 1000 mca marine lead acid right now. Battery hookup is saying I should use the contactor on the negative side. I reconfigured my superbeast like Trevor moon did on his TH-cam video so it's 4s 12p
That was the idea. However, I found I needed to add a resistor to bleed the contactor coil. I want the contactor to open if the BMS shuts off, but it turns out, the BMS still has a small surface charge even when "OFF". Anyways, the general idea worked in this video, but needed to be tweaked as I did further testing.
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks for the response David. Love your videos. Going to attempt to make 2-12v starting batteries out of one of these. We will see how it goes. Will follow your advice on the resistor.
Hi David, you used the I charger x8 to charge the pack and balance the cells, will it become a permanent part of this pack or did you just use it once to top balance the cell then use a different charger next time?
holly shit your not dead or your wife and kid is ok thank god lol i was worried for ahwile i havnt seen you or your family in awhile and i thought the worse like car crash or what ever or maybe your wife left you or what ever lol but im glad to see your back brother keep making vidoes brother you have almost 20000 subs so yeah you can get to a millios subs easily
Now this is way for Batteryhookup to sell them out fast! Well done!
Cherish every moment those girls grow up fast !!!
Love seeing this FUN DIY videos !! Most of all Love that you take the time to teach your kids how thing work. Letting them be a part will give them skills that most adults will not have. Thanks for sharing with us. God Bless brother..
Thanks Bobby. I love having them around with me.
Your daughters expression "Dad look" on the opening was awesome! Thanks for great videos!
Yeah, I had to keep that in the final video. Thanks for watching.
@@DavidPozEnergy - I have 3 daughters and I see that look often ... like a recent Ham antenna upgrade over the weekend -> "Nice 🤣 the roof gets dorkier"
LOL
Good job man, cabling up that natoplug brought it all back for me again.
Just a note on your project. You'll want to add a flyback diode to the coil side of that contactor. This will prevent the back EMF from frying the BMS.
Neat project BTW. 🙂
Edit:
For anyone skimming, this particular contactor has back EMF suppression built in, so this comment is incorrect.
I was wondering if I needed something in there, but had no idea what. Thanks for the tip.
@@DavidPozEnergy Sure thing! If you look up "flyback diode" everyone's favorite search engine provides helpful diagrams and info on the subject.
Edit:
Incase articles you read don't mention this, you'll want to place the diode as close to the inductor (the contactor's coil in this case) as possible.
I checked out the data sheet for this contactor. It's located here: batteryhookup.com/products/1-low-row-super-beast-headway-24v-48ah-1-23kwh The second paragraph on the left side says "limits back EMF to 0V". Is that the same thing as a "flyback diode"?
@@DavidPozEnergy Oh man, that's too cool! They built it right into the contactor! No further parts needed then.
Edit:
And yes, that back EMF is what we're trying to control/prevent. Long story short, when inductors are de-energized they attempt to push their stored energy back towards the source. This causes current to attempt to flow in the opposite direction it was during operation. With nowhere to go, because the circuit has opened, voltage rises massively and usually flashes over some poor little contact or electronic component damaging it. Things will usually tolerate this, but it leads to greatly shortened lifespan of components.
Very cool. But good to know if I use some other contactor. I'm always trying to improve.
I am surprised and glad that we are doing the same thing.
We have made hundreds of Truck SLI(Starting/Lighting/Ignition) & Vehicle Appliances 2 in 1 Battery(25.6V 240Ah 6.144kWh) and installed them on trucks in China and they are running well.
The Discharge Continuous Current: Max 400A is for the electrical appliances in trucks like air conditioning, The Discharge Peak Current: 800A(5s) is for the engine SLI(Starting/Lighting/Ignition) of trucks.
This puts my 12v Harbor freight Viking Lithium Jump pack to shame! So the BMS provides a 24v / low amp signal to the relay. Can't beat $10 buck!
Cool build. Good to have helpers too. Thanks for sharing
Love this generator and jump pack!
Cool idea and implementation: great battery pack, impressed military connector.
Thanks
What you are calling the current transformer should actually be a hall effect sensor. It's a solid-state device that measures the magnetic field produced around a single conductor, similar to the clamp on your multimeter. They are far more accurate and it doesn't actually draw current from the field to make its measurement. As you may know current doesn't actually flow through the wire but is propogated by the magnetic field surrounding the conductors. This is why current is able to travel at faster than the speed of light, determined by the separation of conductors divided by the speed of light. The hall effect sensor takes advantage of these physics.
Thank you. I appreciate the help with my terms. I thought a Hall effect sensor was a type of CT. But I don't have formal electronics training and I'm always trying to improve.
Who would have ever thought that the worlds brightest minds have the time to write an entire paragraph in a TH-cam comment, demonstrating superior intelligence to all who read. Thank you for your contributions to society.
More importantly current transformers, like all other transformers, only work with AC.
Awesome build! Thanks for showing us how to use a cheap BMS to power a huge load. I've never been a fan of those 200a "smart" BMS's.
All those smart devices make us dumber. LOL
Hi David,
Love the channel have been watching you for a while. Definitely love seeing you grow as a content provider.
Your jump pack for 24v systems gave me motivation to use this for a 12v jump pack, I do a lot of repairing vehicles and farm equipment and am tired of dragging around battery chargers and such.
So I ordered the unit only to find there was no way I could do the 4s configuration with the existing plates, even if I cut the one plate I would only have 2 4s setups, not ideal.
So I ordered the battery hookup extra set of plates and brackets and re-configured the setup into a 4s?p configuration. I have pictures and will probably post them on the comment section of the battery hookup page if I can.
Anyways thank you for giving me the motivation!
Thanks for good real content too.. good job
great job david, i wish i knew were to get a generator like that for my home . P.S. i like the younger david look. lol
Send me a message on facebook and I'll tell you where I got mine. @davidpozenergy
I revamped a old jump pack with 8 of those cells. Will jump a Duramax diesel in the cold it did get it over.
Your convenience recepticle should be powered even with the main contactor open. That's why it's convenient.
Awesome project
I just built a massive 18650 pack the same way with that relay. Wired it up so either the BMS or the estop switch will cut the power.
Headway just read about them they have a 10c rate even higher than lithium titanate batteries which are a 5c rate and higher energy density!!! Only real question is if given enough load will the bms still respond reliably? Very nice build!!! I think you should make one with emp shielding and present it and maybe start building them for the military
Nothing wrong with using heavier wire. If it's worth doing, it's worth over doing.
This was so interesting.
Why do you say that - lol love your videos brother David
Ha!!!! I bought my 802 genset from a guy in Alabama last year. You can get a Wi-Fi board for it that allows two wire start and remote instrumentation.
Shhh. Wes, you are giving away the secret to an upcoming video.
@@DavidPozEnergy I have an MEP-802 setup with 2 wire start and an en external 30-gallon tank. All controlled by my solar setup.
Hi Jason, That's great. If you decide to post a video about it, please drop a link. I'd love to check it out.
I'm thinking this configuration would have limitations. If I understand correctly, the typical BMS will not be able to recognize charging condition and will therefore not activate balancing or high voltage cutoff. The BMS will actually think it's discharging even when charging due to relay current. I suppose you could reverse connections and it would think it's always charging and would continuously balance, but you would lose low voltage cutoff.
You have a good point, I'll have to check that.
So, what you're saying is, I could probably run the 1,200w, 24v trolling motor on my boat with this battery? :D
sweet pack, but im more interested in that generator, it looks nice.
It's an MEP-802A. I just got it. I'll be doing some more videos on it soon.
Big Clive (youtuber) has posted some interesting vids about how normal car jump start packs using lithium batteries work. Lots of their clever is in the little box usually in the +ve lead. PARTLY the sudden automotive alternator shouldn't recharge the jump battery.
David, maybe you can get the "The Greasy Brothers" to make some Veggie-Oil fuel for your new Military Diesel Generator.
Just use old oil and trans fluid lol
I'll probably try it at some point, but not soon.
@@DavidPozEnergy I have a 5 Kilowatt Diesel Generator that I run on waste veggie-oil that I get from a local restaurant. I let it settle for two weeks and then drill a small hole in the container above the water and food junk so I only get super clean oil. It drains slowly into cleanable 100 and 75 micron 5 gallon bucket filters. I then run it through cleanable polyester filter cartridges, at 20, 5 and 1 micron nominal. The final stage is thinning the viscosity with 30% Gasoline (petrol) during the winter months and 10-15% during the summer. I do not separate out the glycerol, because the petrol acting as a solvent works wonderful. Kilowatt for Kilowatt my generator costs less then the power grid which is $0.174 per kilowatt. Would you consider doing an episode on my process and give your opinion? There may be interest in these trying times.
th-cam.com/video/8UhZNgiTh5c/w-d-xo.html
Settling is a fantastic first step. Personally, I think settling needs to be done while warm. This could be a heated space, or a heated tank. Back when I was doing WVO I found a huge difference in the amount of water/particles that could settle when cold vs. when hot.
I had a different unit it was a military welder/generator running off of a Perkins deisel with a compressor!
Hey, did you happen to figure out which wires are hooked up to the fan? I figured all the pins and connectors except for the fan and well the heater which I just learned watching your video. There are two red/blue pairs, one seems to be another 10k temp probe, I don't know what the other one goes to because it reads in the mega ohms and doesn't run the fan, or smoke anything, if I hook it to 24v.
Thanks for sharing David! This is an excellent use case for this battery pack!!
Question: do you like your Harbor freight clamp meter seen in the video? Much appreciated & Happy New Years 🥳.
Yes, it works well. Although I find my Uni-T meter to be slightly more accurate. But both work well for home use.
decent sparks at 600 amp. fun...
cool... though wonder if two 12v leads one keeps charged seems a ton more cost effective??? Are the advantages of lithium beside weight and faster re-charge (maybe)..... really any advantage in a jump pack thing?
Ive been looking for a jump pack for my truck. all of the commercially available options are either under powered to start a diesel or way too expensive. This looks like a viable option. I would have to convert it to 12v for my truck but I'd bet some changes to the buss bars would be all that is needed. Does the Relay need a 24v trigger?
The relay works on 9-36V, so a 12V system is fine. Good luck with your build.
I was wondering about this for my mep002a and my 2 mep016. I could really use one these, David could tell me what total cost to build?
Hey what is the actual amp draw when starting?
Isn't this model of AMPmeter measure only up to 650amps? ;D
Ha, maybe. I didn't think about that. I was out there so late at night. I'll have to try it again with one of my other meters. Thanks for calling it out.
Does this generator provide 3 phase power? I have a Gitchners mobile comms shelter, the type where you can daisy chain a bunch together to create a large operations center. It has a 100 amp 3 phase 60Hz and a 100 amp 3 phase 400Hz inputs with a daisy chain output for jumper cables to the next unit. It’s even equipped with 45,000 BTU ECU. BEEN LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO POWER IT BUT THE 3 phase units are huge!
Yes. This generator (MEP-802A) has a selector switch that allows you to choose 120V 1P, 120/240V 1P, or 120/208V 3P.
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks for the info! I will have a friend look out for one since he bids on the auction sites. Any idea as to the price range considering these bids are sight and condition unseen?
how many hours was it between cell group 3 being full and the pack being balanced?
I don't remember exactly. No more than 3 hours on the balancer.
ok, i don't get it. why use the small BMS to power the switch and not just run a wire directly to the switch in order to power the relay?? what did i miss? DON"T tell me they send this 'battery pack' without a BMS... besides, how did the pack enable/disable the relay to begin with?!?! guess i don't understand what you are starting with...
Sometimes battery packs are built without a BMS built-in. This is pretty common with server UPS (uninterruptable power supply) units. The UPS has the computer brains, which tells the relay to turn on or off. I don't know if this "super beast" battery was part of a UPS, or something else, but it has a wiring harness which would have connected to some higher level computer. Since I don't have the original application, I'm making my own. Yes, I could have turned on/off the relay with the switch directly. Or, removed the relay altogether. But, if I did that, then there would be no over-voltage protection, or under-voltage, etc. The BMS I added provides those protection features.
How come my superbeast from battery hookup didn’t come with all those beautiful aluminum covers? I took a superbeast and converted it to 12v using all of those cells and want to use it on my dump trailer for the battery. Should I be able to use that contactor with a cheap bms the same way? Is that a fuse in there coming from the positive to the contactor?
I'm guessing you have a 12V pump for the dump control? And, that you want a battery on board for using the dump option without needing the truck wired in? If that's correct, then I'd first check what the Amp draw is of the 12V pump. If it's less than 100A (which it probably is) then I'd simply use a 100A BMS: batteryhookup.com/products/12v-lifepo4-smart-bms-w-low-temp-cutoff No need for a relay.
Yes, the fuse is on the positive side.
When I got the super-beast, Battery Hookup was offering 2 options in their website, one with the aluminum enclosure, and one without. I don't know if they still offer both options or not.
@DavidPozEnergy yes it has a 12v pump. The amp draw gets into 250 or more under a load but the winch draws 350+. It has a 1000 mca marine lead acid right now. Battery hookup is saying I should use the contactor on the negative side. I reconfigured my superbeast like Trevor moon did on his TH-cam video so it's 4s 12p
So where do you connect things to charge it now that you have it all wired together?
The alternator inside the generator will charge it.
Would you be able to charge this through the same terminals that you pull the load off of? And still get over charge protection from the bms?
That was the idea. However, I found I needed to add a resistor to bleed the contactor coil. I want the contactor to open if the BMS shuts off, but it turns out, the BMS still has a small surface charge even when "OFF". Anyways, the general idea worked in this video, but needed to be tweaked as I did further testing.
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks for the response David. Love your videos. Going to attempt to make 2-12v starting batteries out of one of these. We will see how it goes. Will follow your advice on the resistor.
So original pack had no bms to control over/under charge/discharge?
I'm guessing all the wires went to an external computer controller on whatever thing this was built for.
@@DavidPozEnergy Interesting use for a bms make total sense.
How about using one of those portable car jumpers? I know they’re used for 12 V, but I wonder if it can be used for 24 V?
A 12V jump pack won't work on a 24V system.
Sure, just link 2 together. I have doubts on the current required, but at least the voltage is correct.
@@DavidPozEnergy
How about hooking up two of them together? In series/parallel
@@simon359 If you want the voltage to be additive, hook them up in series. If you want the current to be additive, hook them up in parallel.
Hi David,
you used the I charger x8 to charge the pack and balance the cells, will it become a permanent part of this pack or did you just use it once to top balance the cell then use a different charger next time?
I used it once. If the cells are in good shape you shouldn't need to do it again. But if the cells are self-discharging, then you will get some drift.
@@DavidPozEnergy Curious how you plan to do routine charging of the battery without the x8 - the BMS wasn't installed with charging in mind - correct?
lol what the heel is this thing lol looks cool man i wish i was rich i would have so much fun but owell thats why i watch youtube i guess
holly shit your not dead or your wife and kid is ok thank god lol i was worried for ahwile i havnt seen you or your family in awhile and i thought the worse like car crash or what ever or maybe your wife left you or what ever lol but im glad to see your back brother keep making vidoes brother you have almost 20000 subs so yeah you can get to a millios subs easily
Everyone is OK. Thanks for watching.
the us army does not need this , reason being most vehicles are jump starters themselves ( there is a place to attach a wire ) already built into