I've been enjoying your videos for about a week now and have seen the admiration you have for your grandfather. Have you ever thought of doing an interview with him about his life and trades?
You have a 3D taster, you can use it on the lathe to set your tools also. Drive your tools in the X axis till it clocks around twice and set the diameter to zero. Drive all tools in the Z axis and create a relative Z zero and use work offset in your program to accommodate your stock.
Nice job, John. I have been revisiting this myself several times over the past few weeks since receiving that lathe and have found there are several ways to set different tools and offsets. Videos like this one and others you have made certainly help. As you stated early, there are many ways to do it. It takes a different mindset than a mill to think it through. Thanks and keep up the great videos.
NYC CNC Did you win? Looks like you were in a fight with the knuckles on the right hand. ;) I was a mechanic in the Army and my knuckles looked like that most of the time. Wrench slip knuckles. :)
As Tormach Sells more of the Slant Pro's, this video will likely become a valuable resource to owners... Enjoy the videos. I have a couple questions on an unrelated topic so will PM those to you.
Thanks for making this. Everyone thinks touch screens are so cool, but I feel like using a slider to control something like spindle speed takes longer and is more frustrating than a traditional knob. My Prototrak mill has the touch screen and I miss being able to look at the cut while dialing in the speed. I noticed you struggling to lower the speed with the slider. If you have oil or coolant on your fingers, it gets all over the screen and it has a hard time recognizing your touch. The plastic ones get all hazy. I hung one of those pens from the control with the tip on it and that helps.
I would recommend you to touch of Z of all threading tools on there thought edge of the triangle and not on the tip. This will prevent you from crashing into a shoulder. When I'm cutting close to a shoulder that is e. g. 10mm long I will just cut my thread until 9,8mm and have the peace of mind that there is no reason for the threading tool to crush into the shoulder. Except when you are in a hurry and quickly reduce the thread and shoulder length in a program but forget to do so for the cleanup thread pass in the last unit... That's when you think you should have used the tool path simulation which costs you 30 seconds which is much less than the time it takes to realigning the turret or tool post... That's what my personal experience taught me...
I have only watched a few minutes. So keep that in mind. On our lathes during setup I'll usually do the cut and take measurement method for setting x offsets on tooling. I was taught to use a caliper but use mics when I can as I've found more consistent results from initial programming vs having to adjust after the first part. With parting tool offsets I usually will drill the nipple if there is one on the face (usually very minor) and deburr that hole then use a gauge block and jog z+ till touch off much like using one in a machine center to set z offset for a tool. On threading tools I always zero the face of the insert not the centerline. This is just my method and ensures no crashing when I have a specific area threading is being done. I'm sure you're sick of my comments by now haha. We're all learning from each other, I know I am. Curious about why you said the mother tool method has it's disadvantages. I haven't found any but I also learned everything on my own without much input at the beginning.
NYC CNC usually just stick any drill in the machine and do it manually. However that is only on one of our lathes. The other is dialed in center so there is no nipple on the center of the part.
Good job John. You mentioned inserts, I'm not sure if you've tried them but I can recommend cermet inserts for both the mill and lathe, though not for aluminium obviously. I use Kyocera brand and they leave an almost polished finish on pretty much any steel I can throw at them, up to and including hardened steels. I liked the cameo appearance of Grandpa ... well, Grandpa's butt anyway :)
NYC CNC Cermet inserts are a composite between ceramic and, ah, carbide (... I think). Anyway, ceramic and a metal, that probably depends on the grade. Pure ceramic inserts are good, but delicate. Carbide is, well, carbide. Cermets combine the best of both worlds. Here's a link to Kyocera's info on grades, and it covers Cermets. www.kyocera.eu/etc/medialib/kyocera/products/cutting_tools/cutting_tools_pdf1.Par.96899.File.dat/01%20-%20Kyocera%20Insert%20Grades%202010-2011%20%5BENG%5D.pdf I challenge you to not giggle like a school-girl the first time you run a cermet and see a finish that looks as if it's been polished on a buffing wheel. Literally. Or hard turn something and see the chips dripping off glowing red hot from the tool. They're not for every application, but ideal on tougher or harder materials, yet still work well on mild steels.
Very interesting. I've just finished converting my lathe to cnc and I reckon most of this will relevant to us mach3 users. The concept is the same, just a little different on the interface side.
John, I don't use the paper method. I have a manual lathe. I always do a test cut, measure and then set the micrometer to the desired diameter, and zero it. Then when I re-measure, I know how far from the finished diameter I am. Of course on a CNC, the way you did it is good.
Hey John, have you had a chance to play with the new Turning CAM in Fusion 360 update? I've been using Sprutcam Express (free) on my Tormach mill, but didn't have any CAM for lathe. Still working on cleaning up the post processor to work with the Ah-ha controller on my lathe, but so far I'm loving it!
On the threading tool touch the Z to the face of the insert than program your threading cycle to stop short of the face .005-.010 thou that way you know you won't hit the face. On the grooving tool I always touch the face of the part and set Z zero if the tool is used for parting I allow in the program for the tool width that way you could use it for both grooving and parting. Or you could run two offsets on the same tool witch works good for the finish pass to control the width of the groove. Than what about tip comp? Does your machine use this?
must I repeat facing and devastating operations for each tool? sometimes I need micrometer precision and the paper method seems to me inaccurate or not suitable.
Hmm did you check for run out in your check? If you use a very short piece it will reduce deflection and if you use a very wide piece it will minimize measuring errors.
NYC CNC Ah fair enough, still worth checking it though, from time to time. Yes it could effect your measuring accuracy and just general accuracy. I mean whats the point if your not measuring accurately?
Great video, good information for initial setup. Perhaps Tormach could help a brother out and allow exporting of setup information so one could reload PathPilot but not have to restart.
I did a conversational chamfer operation, and it made several passes before ever contacting the material. Is that typical? Or am I off in my offsets somehow? I think the chamfer turned out correct. Thanks.
Does that lathe have an X home switch? After setting up tools in Mach3 turn tool table and having to touch off every new part with my master tool I thought about it for a bit and promptly installed an X home switch. I tested its repeat-ability a lot and it was good to less then half a thousandth. I used the mach X axis dro, some test cuts and a mic to determine the distance from tool 1 to center line of the lathe. Now all my 14+ tools are set offset from tool 1 and I simply chuck up my part, home X, and I am good to go. So far everything is coming out with in 1-2 thousandths which I think for a simple stepper machine that's pretty except-able. Having to measure offsets for every new part seems excessive and a waste of time unless you need something super precise.
Hi John just bit the bullet and get me cash out,ordring up a Slant pro been playing with the Free software tormach have on PathPilot, but dont seem to be able to change the imperial to metric for use guys on this side of the pond any help would be good
I'd be nice if you could show everyone how the 12c is actually used. As a finance professional moving into CNC myself. I find it extremely annoying using a regular calculator. Cheeers!.
Why don't you zero your thread tool exactly at the shoulder of the insert and then program the thread length just a fraction from the turned shoulder? That would make things a lot easier and you wouldn't be worried about crashing your tool. Ok, you may miss the length of the cutting tip and the front of the tool but you could add a wider relief cut....
+Cary Lewis I think every machinist who has cut internal threads thinks: "Man it'd be interesting to see what im doing here" :) I'd trust John to figure out how to get a good camera angle. maybe some more Hydraulic punch strippers?
John, you probably need to either go wired or test out the wireless mic for a better frequency. I'm hearing a lot of interference in your videos lately.
NYC CNC tool eye is an eye that you can touch off your tools on. Easy way to touch off your tool without cutting and measuring or touching it off the stock.
akromix For setting up a different tool I find it pretty neat (but not a must have). I know that touching off the tools after insert change is not often necessary but by doing so you can easier compensate for insert variations that are in my case about 0,02-0,04mm in Z and won't need to manually do it with the tool compensation values. Why I need to have the tools nearly perfect in Z? Often I'm facing and roughing with a CNMG insert and for the finishing I use a DNMG or VNMG insert but don't make a finish cut on the "beginning face" of the part. And thus a deviation from the CNMG to the other tool in Z often leads to tiny burrs on the 0,5mm radii I commonly use for chamfers on my parts. Sometimes I also have to use 0,1 or 0,2mm radii on internal diameters when the part is joint with a fillet weld to a tube with only 0,5mm wall thickness where it really has only to be burr free and the welder would kill me for every bit of material that is removed which of course makes it harder to weld such thin walled parts. I hope the way I described it is understandable.
+Mazak Man nobody crashed into this tool setter. The machine was bought new. I don't use it because I can touch off and measure faster than using it and then offsetting from it on the actual part.
I've been enjoying your videos for about a week now and have seen the admiration you have for your grandfather. Have you ever thought of doing an interview with him about his life and trades?
John really loving these real world "job set-up" videos your doing lately. I have been following your channel for years..kudos..
Hey John, great video. Now I have to practice. I'm wondering how to set up the boring bar and drills? Thanks
You have a 3D taster, you can use it on the lathe to set your tools also. Drive your tools in the X axis till it clocks around twice and set the diameter to zero. Drive all tools in the Z axis and create a relative Z zero and use work offset in your program to accommodate your stock.
Nice job, John.
I have been revisiting this myself several times over the past few weeks since receiving that lathe and have found there are several ways to set different tools and offsets. Videos like this one and others you have made certainly help. As you stated early, there are many ways to do it. It takes a different mindset than a mill to think it through.
Thanks and keep up the great videos.
NYC CNC Did you win? Looks like you were in a fight with the knuckles on the right hand. ;) I was a mechanic in the Army and my knuckles looked like that most of the time. Wrench slip knuckles. :)
Lee Styron Sorry. Should have said playoff game.
As Tormach Sells more of the Slant Pro's, this video will likely become a valuable resource to owners... Enjoy the videos. I have a couple questions on an unrelated topic so will PM those to you.
Thanks for making this. Everyone thinks touch screens are so cool, but I feel like using a slider to control something like spindle speed takes longer and is more frustrating than a traditional knob. My Prototrak mill has the touch screen and I miss being able to look at the cut while dialing in the speed. I noticed you struggling to lower the speed with the slider. If you have oil or coolant on your fingers, it gets all over the screen and it has a hard time recognizing your touch. The plastic ones get all hazy. I hung one of those pens from the control with the tip on it and that helps.
Thanks John. I'm so new to this thing it's killing me to get it to do what I want.. continued practice I'm hoping is all...
I would recommend you to touch of Z of all threading tools on there thought edge of the triangle and not on the tip. This will prevent you from crashing into a shoulder. When I'm cutting close to a shoulder that is e. g. 10mm long I will just cut my thread until 9,8mm and have the peace of mind that there is no reason for the threading tool to crush into the shoulder.
Except when you are in a hurry and quickly reduce the thread and shoulder length in a program but forget to do so for the cleanup thread pass in the last unit... That's when you think you should have used the tool path simulation which costs you 30 seconds which is much less than the time it takes to realigning the turret or tool post... That's what my personal experience taught me...
I have only watched a few minutes. So keep that in mind. On our lathes during setup I'll usually do the cut and take measurement method for setting x offsets on tooling. I was taught to use a caliper but use mics when I can as I've found more consistent results from initial programming vs having to adjust after the first part. With parting tool offsets I usually will drill the nipple if there is one on the face (usually very minor) and deburr that hole then use a gauge block and jog z+ till touch off much like using one in a machine center to set z offset for a tool. On threading tools I always zero the face of the insert not the centerline. This is just my method and ensures no crashing when I have a specific area threading is being done. I'm sure you're sick of my comments by now haha. We're all learning from each other, I know I am. Curious about why you said the mother tool method has it's disadvantages. I haven't found any but I also learned everything on my own without much input at the beginning.
Also I did watch the rest before posting this and added to it so disregard me saying I only watched a few minutes.
NYC CNC usually just stick any drill in the machine and do it manually. However that is only on one of our lathes. The other is dialed in center so there is no nipple on the center of the part.
Good job John. You mentioned inserts, I'm not sure if you've tried them but I can recommend cermet inserts for both the mill and lathe, though not for aluminium obviously. I use Kyocera brand and they leave an almost polished finish on pretty much any steel I can throw at them, up to and including hardened steels.
I liked the cameo appearance of Grandpa ... well, Grandpa's butt anyway :)
NYC CNC Cermet inserts are a composite between ceramic and, ah, carbide (... I think). Anyway, ceramic and a metal, that probably depends on the grade. Pure ceramic inserts are good, but delicate. Carbide is, well, carbide. Cermets combine the best of both worlds. Here's a link to Kyocera's info on grades, and it covers Cermets. www.kyocera.eu/etc/medialib/kyocera/products/cutting_tools/cutting_tools_pdf1.Par.96899.File.dat/01%20-%20Kyocera%20Insert%20Grades%202010-2011%20%5BENG%5D.pdf
I challenge you to not giggle like a school-girl the first time you run a cermet and see a finish that looks as if it's been polished on a buffing wheel. Literally. Or hard turn something and see the chips dripping off glowing red hot from the tool. They're not for every application, but ideal on tougher or harder materials, yet still work well on mild steels.
Very interesting. I've just finished converting my lathe to cnc and I reckon most of this will relevant to us mach3 users. The concept is the same, just a little different on the interface side.
John, I don't use the paper method. I have a manual lathe. I always do a test cut, measure and then set the micrometer to the desired diameter, and zero it. Then when I re-measure, I know how far from the finished diameter I am. Of course on a CNC, the way you did it is good.
Hey John, have you had a chance to play with the new Turning CAM in Fusion 360 update? I've been using Sprutcam Express (free) on my Tormach mill, but didn't have any CAM for lathe. Still working on cleaning up the post processor to work with the Ah-ha controller on my lathe, but so far I'm loving it!
On the threading tool touch the Z to the face of the insert than program your threading cycle to stop short of the face .005-.010 thou that way you know you won't hit the face. On the grooving tool I always touch the face of the part and set Z zero if the tool is used for parting I allow in the program for the tool width that way you could use it for both grooving and parting. Or you could run two offsets on the same tool witch works good for the finish pass to control the width of the groove. Than what about tip comp?
Does your machine use this?
must I repeat facing and devastating operations for each tool? sometimes I need micrometer precision and the paper method seems to me inaccurate or not suitable.
Why not put your Haimer in the collet and do you offsets from with it? You know the exact Z height of the gauge.
Hmm did you check for run out in your check? If you use a very short piece it will reduce deflection and if you use a very wide piece it will minimize measuring errors.
Adam Hill *chuck
NYC CNC Ah fair enough, still worth checking it though, from time to time. Yes it could effect your measuring accuracy and just general accuracy. I mean whats the point if your not measuring accurately?
Adam Hill how would runout affect the accuracy of the part? Once a pass is made any runout will be eliminated on the work piece.
akromix It's more of a problem for chucks, espetially if you are rechucking the same peice twice.
Well yeah...that is obvious. Even if using soft jaws to rechuck a part you'll most likely have some run out.
Thanks for sharing, great video mate!
Great video, good information for initial setup. Perhaps Tormach could help a brother out and allow exporting of setup information so one could reload PathPilot but not have to restart.
I did a conversational chamfer operation, and it made several passes before ever contacting the material. Is that typical? Or am I off in my offsets somehow? I think the chamfer turned out correct. Thanks.
Does that lathe have an X home switch?
After setting up tools in Mach3 turn tool table and having to touch off every new part with my master tool I thought about it for a bit and promptly installed an X home switch. I tested its repeat-ability a lot and it was good to less then half a thousandth.
I used the mach X axis dro, some test cuts and a mic to determine the distance from tool 1 to center line of the lathe. Now all my 14+ tools are set offset from tool 1 and I simply chuck up my part, home X, and I am good to go. So far everything is coming out with in 1-2 thousandths which I think for a simple stepper machine that's pretty except-able. Having to measure offsets for every new part seems excessive and a waste of time unless you need something super precise.
Hi John just bit the bullet and get me cash out,ordring up a Slant pro been playing with the Free software tormach have on PathPilot, but dont seem to be able to change the imperial to metric for use guys on this side of the pond any help would be good
Can you do drill bits and centre drill please?
Sir, how do you set tool offset for drill bits ?
I'd be nice if you could show everyone how the 12c is actually used. As a finance professional moving into CNC myself. I find it extremely annoying using a regular calculator. Cheeers!.
How do you change the offset on a CNC machine
well done mate well explained
Why don't you zero your thread tool exactly at the shoulder of the insert and then program the thread length just a fraction from the turned shoulder? That would make things a lot easier and you wouldn't be worried about crashing your tool. Ok, you may miss the length of the cutting tip and the front of the tool but you could add a wider relief cut....
This was from my experience from machining stuff. Hope my input was a bit helpfull
Would be interesting to see some internal threading. Love your videos keep um' coming!
+Cary Lewis I think every machinist who has cut internal threads thinks: "Man it'd be interesting to see what im doing here" :) I'd trust John to figure out how to get a good camera angle. maybe some more Hydraulic punch strippers?
it's kind of the same thing as ID boring just a diff cutter
What is g cods and m codes
John, you probably need to either go wired or test out the wireless mic for a better frequency. I'm hearing a lot of interference in your videos lately.
it must be expensive as hell to have a cnc machine delivered to nyc
Too bad there's no tool eye.
NYC CNC tool eye is an eye that you can touch off your tools on. Easy way to touch off your tool without cutting and measuring or touching it off the stock.
d1deuce I have a tool probe on one of my lathes. I never use it. Ever.
akromix For setting up a different tool I find it pretty neat (but not a must have). I know that touching off the tools after insert change is not often necessary but by doing so you can easier compensate for insert variations that are in my case about 0,02-0,04mm in Z and won't need to manually do it with the tool compensation values. Why I need to have the tools nearly perfect in Z? Often I'm facing and roughing with a CNMG insert and for the finishing I use a DNMG or VNMG insert but don't make a finish cut on the "beginning face" of the part. And thus a deviation from the CNMG to the other tool in Z often leads to tiny burrs on the 0,5mm radii I commonly use for chamfers on my parts. Sometimes I also have to use 0,1 or 0,2mm radii on internal diameters when the part is joint with a fillet weld to a tube with only 0,5mm wall thickness where it really has only to be burr free and the welder would kill me for every bit of material that is removed which of course makes it harder to weld such thin walled parts.
I hope the way I described it is understandable.
+Mazak Man nobody crashed into this tool setter. The machine was bought new. I don't use it because I can touch off and measure faster than using it and then offsetting from it on the actual part.
This programme in hindi convert please