I mean we've already gotten some from them (Read: made from their bones) such as the skull of dire Ahamkara, the claws of Ahamkara, the sealed Ahamkara grips, young Ahamkara's spine, the one-thousand voices, hell it was a theory back in the day that bad juju also made from an ahamkara and (while this is wild headcanon that I just came up with) the otherside sparrow may even have something to do with them (however there is no proof outside of that face it has an animal skull on it and the lore is really weird but said lore doesn't reference the Ahamkara it's just weird) so it's not like there's a shortage of stuff from them (unless your a titan cus I don't think there are any titan exotics that are Ahamkara related) but it would absolutely be 100% on brand for the Guardian to wish for loot and I would absolutely love it if that happend!
5:50 there's a reason eyes evolve independently, because it provides the organism with awareness of its surroundings. For the phrase 'o ___ mine' to appear independantly in different species it has to mean there's some reason behind it, that using it invokes some power that isn't inherent for, let's say, school of thought, but rather the phrase itself can invoke that power. Either way, it's a proof that Ahamkara and Worms are related or they are not related and there's a deeper reason for the phrase to appear (IMO the first one is more interesting but the second one is more probable as wish magic seems to be more within the realm of Darkness' consciousness theme)
My personal headcanon is that savathuns wish was based around her desire to escape/kill the witness and we're seeing the fruition of that wish come to pass. It would be really cool if we ended up going back to the dreaming city next season
And that wish caused the curse on the dreaming city, so the curse is the key to the portal maybe. Also all the stuff about ascending to higher planes of existence that savathun was trying at the time that people are theorizing about now could also be the key
@@submachinegun5737Some fans believe, besides her wanting to survive and live a king life, that her ultimate goal, may be to escape the game, Destiny 2, and enter our reality. In a way, she has, players talk about what a great villain she is, how you, “love to hate her”. She’s that memorable. Even if we, or someone else, kills Immaru, then Savathun, and her entire brood, Savathun, in a way, will still live, in memory. But, honestly, I don’t see Savathun being killed off for a long, long time. The writers probably want to get more stories out of her before killing her off much later on. What’s more unpredictable though, is what her plans are after the Final Shape, after the Witness is killed, and it’s forces, killed, imprisoned, and/or routed out of Sol. Our system will mostly, be at peace. Save for a few enemy factions that still hold grudges. But I’m curious, if we’ll even lift the curse in the Dreaming City, or hunt down the remaining Worm Gods. Killing the Worm Gods wouldn’t end the Hive overnight. But it would lesson their number by a great deal. Ensuring they’d still be enemies to fight, but they’d be on a unavoidable path, to extinction.
It’s also interesting that the 1 thousand voices uses the same attack as xol, will of the thousands. A raid exotic from an ahamkara raid (who’s description refers to you as “o murderer mine”) that shares an attack and it’s naming convention with one of the major worm gods. So not only does riven share her naming convention with the worms, but a gun made to imply it’s made from her bones also shares an attack with them.
What if the 15th wish is to get through the portal? Picture this: We never did anything with Riven's heart and at the end of the Last Wish raid the Techeuns say that we'll need it for "sake of plans to come". What if the final season of Lightfall is to somehow discover wish 15 and use Riven's heart to grant us the power to go through the portal the witness made and set us up for the Final Shape?
@@fightingforlife1211Perhaps. But, the real question is: at what price will this wish be granted? We could lose another ally/friend on our way to the conclusive end of this war.
What if Savathûn actually *tricked* Riven with her wish, giving her power; by extension, tricking a more powerful being would tithe her more imbaru. What if she made herself stronger than an Ahamkara because she was able to outwit one, and that strength is what makes her so dangerous to the Witness.
That is possible, come to think. My first thought was a game of chess. With Imbaru, Savathun could have gone eons of backtracking to do it and get away with it
Savathun said she left us the key to get to the Witness. We still have a Wish remaining from Riven. It would show her cunning to have left that for us so long ago.
I remember playing this strike for the first time as a blueberry. Started Destiny during Forsaken, and when we finally killed that dang worm god when all just stood there and got killed when he fell on us🤣
Wow this whole video is so fascinating! Good job getting Moon in here to provide her knowledge about the Tarot and what it might have to do with these cards. It really does feel like Bungie actually took into account how you'd do an actual reading with these cards. A lot is up to interpretation, but it wasn't a thought exercise that I would ever be able to do. (so thanks for going into it for us!)
I think the wish will be the 15th wish. Up until now, the 15th wish hasn't been discovered, most likely because it wasn't actually coded into the game, as all the others were directly involved with the Last Wish Raid. This would be a good opportunity for bungie to finally say, "Oh look, you finally found it." Also, in one of Savathun's contingencies, she specifically mentioned Mara Sov discovering "the pattern," which would result in us guardians going to take "It" by force. I believe that the key to entering the portal is Mara Sov's unhatched Ahamkara. After we deal the final blow to Xivu Arath, Mara Sov will contact us to help with her egg in another season. Once the egg is hatched, We'll then use the wishing wall (via cutscene or lore entry) to input the 15th wish to allow us to enter the portal. I think bungie is going to retroactively say that Savathun's plan for cursing the dreaming city, was actually her way of "Showing us" what an Ahamkara is and how to wish upon on.
That would help patch a plot hole as well. Savathuns actual plan for invading the dreaming city was to try and get into the distributary so she could make Imbaru real. Bungie has since forgotten that Imbaru doesn't actually exist and its presented a massive plot hole, as everything Savathun has done in Destiny up to this point was either in pursuit of making Imbaru real or as a consequence of the failure to do so. Culminating in her ridding herself of her worm so that she no longer needs to constantly feed it through acts of conquest. With Imbaru now a real thing, she had no reason to do any of that, especially the dreaming city invasion. So I'm hoping bungie patches the hole by ascribing new motivations for the actions that were previously fuelled by that goal of making Imbaru real.
Honestly having "Season of the Wish" be the final season that leads to the culmination of the light and darkness saga would be incredible. The 15th Wish and the Dreaming City curse is the greatest unsolved mystery in all of Destiny and it would be the sweetest bow before finally taking down The Witness.
It is also appropriate because the name Ex Diris, means "ominous events/oncomings", Haruspex... is also very ominous considering that for the past year, Eris has been dissecting and examining Savathun's body.
I like the blurring you've done to lore tabs. I always find myself reading ahead (thanks ADHD) and the slight blurring helps keep me focused on what is being narrated
Imagine an Ahamkara pieced itself together from all the random bones never discovered!? I can only imagine a whole bunch of Hunters would be getting angry messages from their Young Ahamkaras Spines "Oh Bearer Mine! Please destroy the mutant wish dragon for he has my toes!!!" Joking aside, imagine if caged inside the Imbaru Engine is an Ahamkara!? There's been stories of collosal Ahamkaras if the Imbaru Engine Tower is encasing an Ahamkara!? That beasty is HUGE!
The perfect thing about tarot is that its all based on intuition and the magic that comes with that image feeling, so as long as you're looking at it with an open mind, there is no real way to give a bad reading per say, at the end of the he day even if it's a video game, there's a lot to say about the conclusion we come to based of intuitive magics
"A little more than a dozen different ways to read Tarot exist" Translation: Its a bunch of woo-woo that can mean really anything your mind chooses it to mean.
I think Savathun’s wish was for everything that has happen to happen. The curse was to make it so she could escape after Mara released her worm. Part of the negative effects from the wish would be she becomes mortal, but she actually knew the light chose her eons ago (not going to let her acting surprised guide me during WQ).
I enjoy this tarot reading because it obviously depends on the point of view of the observer. The reading as pertains to us, the 4th wall observer with the extra knowledge that we have and our disconnected point of view, is very different than to Eris. 1. Blades : The battle between light and dark 2. The Adherent: Us the player 3. The sisters: In broadest terms at this moment (Xivu, Eris and Savathun) their battle for dominance and hierarchy, their interrelated plans and machinations. 4. The Harbinger: The Witness 5. The Lie: What we've known so far of the relationship between light and dark 6. The Aspects of the Light: What we've known leading up to the arrival of the pyramid ships 7. The Witch: Savathun who may have the answer to our wish 8. The Truth: In this case a question as to what is the truth behind Darkness and Light and our reason for pursuing the Witness 9. Lament: Our loss and our inability to currently follow the Witness 10. The Wish: For a way to follow the Witness into the Traveler That's just what I get from this reading.
I think the worn species were all once like Asha, but then I think the Ahamkara were given the Light and the Worm Gods were given the Darkness and that’s what separated them. Just a thought I’ve had since Forsaken
I had a conversation on Reddit a while back about wish magic. It seems to be the only thing that rivals or even succeeds the witness because of how potent it’s reality altering properties are. There’s a small possibility we can use wish magic against the witness. We have bones in the dreaming city, Riven’s heart, and I believe Mara Sov still has that wish dragon egg.
i said on your video about Xivus champion we defeated that "what if the light eater fought the Ahamkara ? Xivu said that they wore their corpses or bones as armor or something like that and all i thought about was how we have exotic armor thats like "bone". Hence ahamkaras spine etc. But it starts to make sense
...Anyone else thinking about Riven claiming both our kind are inseparable now? Maybe that's connected, and we're about to find out how deep that runs.
There's so much mystery in this Season, yet it all feels underplayed because of how it's presented. I still hold hope that we'll get a secret Exotic Quest before this Season ends
We got the tessellation pre order exotic this season. That replaces the exotic quest for the season, same thing happened last year with quicksilver storm and season of plunder.
I know this is really old, but I wanted to add my perspective. Each of the cards are created through hive magic as needed. I interpret that action as the drawing, and assume that the full major arcana (or their analogues) were possible but not needed for this spread. In this ritual, based on my interpretation, the cards not created where the ones that a tarot reader would have left in the deck.
There are so many possibilities of what could show up next season and what will be the key to entering the portal. Savathûn's secret item, which may be an Ahamkara, the spire that's pointing at the Traveler on the Witness' Pyramid, Mara and her egg, I've heard possibly Nezarec being involved, perhaps this will come around to Dûl Incaru and the Curse, perhaps even Medusa may come around again. UuuuuUUUUGH! This is driving me crazy!!!
another room has open in the imbaru engine when you get the 43 minor card ^^ its an intresting look :3 and the the radio message for this week is also intresting :3
My theory is that the last Season before The Final Shape will bring us back to the Dreaming City and to the final wish on the Wall of Wishes. In the run to the finale of the Light and Darkness Saga, we have returned to and resolved all of the previous expansions. The last one being a conclusion to Forsaken feels right.
the destiny wiki says that Ahamkara are shape-shifting creatures, which would explain the similarity between the Worm Gods and the Wish Dragons, as well as explaining how the tiny, clearly not from a giant dragon bones that make up the various Ahamkara armors could still be from an Ahamkara, just one that had taken a different form. Alternatively, ahamkara bones could still retain that shapeshifting property, and shape themselves to the armor form the bearer desires.
The egg in Mara's possession hatching would be an incredible implication to the Destiny universe. An egg left by Riven, the last wish dragon, giving birth to the first of the wish dragons
It'd be funny if everything, The Curse..The Wish, all led to this. The Curse and its mysteries fuelling Imbaru feeding Savathûn's Worm, Eris gains tithes and one "ultimate tithe" taking down Savathûn by the sword logic. Granting Eris the necessary power to deal a crippling blow to Xivu. There's an aspect missing, but it could all be a long slow burn, every action and reaction necessary for following through the portal. I mean, it's possible that Savathûn saw the futility in humanity trying to oppose The Witness. And long since knocked over a domino sequence culminating in her getting an ultimate upper hand over her sister, meanwhile bringing together all bar Vex to pursue The Witness. Fighting where "The Sky" is theoretically the strongest.
What if, we end up using the egg to make that 15th wish, and that wish being for the knowledge on how to cross through the portal. Savathun said we'd discover the way through, and all this has led to the Wish card. Everyones connections to the wish dragons and Riven specifically, maybe the 15th wish is what gets us through. Either made by Savathun, Eris, Mara, or even someone from the Vanguard. Just a thought
6:14 I interpreted it as xivu saying they are gods, but ours should be only ones to that has a right to exist. Since she is the embodiement of the sword logic
I wonder if the reason Eris is such a hazard in other timelines is because the wish she made to survive twisted her. Her caving into power that affects so many timelines could be one of the ramifications of that wish to escape the Hellmouth.
An interesting thing is did Ikora not say "we have to find out what form its taken" or something similar in refrence to the key for us to get through the portal? are Ahamkara not shape shifters also? seems plausable for the key to be an ahamkara itself.
No. No, no no! When the final week droped and I saw that opaque card, I said: "If this is the Last Wish, the one Savathun made, it'll wrap a pretty bow on everything!" I even mentioned this in a Meylin video about the same thing. I hope we're right about this, I dearly hope.
On the past/future interpretation, we can rule out things based on when Eris drew the reading. She couldn't have done the reading until this week when we helped her find the final card. That means her being a hive god is all in her past. The reading is after all the events of the season so far.
You said there was many ways to read the cards with the right column always changing the order perhaps the correct order to read them is told in the lore tabs for example the exotic weapon lore says (ex debris) the witch above that the truth then lament then the wish) maybe? Maybe there is more orders in other lore tabs for the other cards not just those 4. Just a thought
Kinda wished that they made the tarots on the table relate to the wish wall and those cards would reflect something close to the symbols on it so we can get the 15th wish for real
The description of the words enclosing mine reminds me of what I loved about the original Suspiria movie. I don't know how many people even noticed, but a lot of the camera's perspective is subliminal messaging. Probably the best example is where the 2 girls are swimming in the pool together, & as the camera pulls back slowly, first you see them "running" in place (& getting nowhere), then the lines in the pool sort of trap them, then the pool shape layers that, & going further back, even the last vantage point of the shot, creating multiple "boxes" to trap the girls, also make the viewer wonder "who" the "watcher" might be. There is another one I remember, using a lightbulb, but the film is filled with that.
"Tell you?" Savathtn frowned, her voice edged with disappointment. "I already *showed* you." "One wish granted deserves another. And I cannot wait to *show* you what SHE wished for."
The arcana of the wish is the 12th. In the tarot de marseilles, it correspond to the hanged man. i guess looking into its significance might hint us at something ?
All the lore aside, which is still extremely interesting and I very much hope they bring the wish dragons back in some way, but seeing a kinetic ammo drop was a mental flashbang for me that I had to stop the video to remember when they got rid of it
Who'd imagine dragons would be the topic today lol. The wish could be still part of Queen Mara Sov, since she had wished for unique paracausal powers from Riven at one point, so once all the enemies of the Traveler arrived to the Sol system Riven's power had to adjust for all the new powers it had to sift through to eliminate possible powers for Mara.
I always believe that the 15th wish would just be savathun wishing for more wishes. Riven killing off the other dragons might just be a way to utilize them being "aware" or whatever despite being dead. So i feel like at some point we might get more of them.
The ability to grant wishes the ahamkara possess isn't absolute and infallible, they can't just grant any wish asked, they need a sufficient amount of power to grant certain wishes and granting those wishes in turn grants the ahamkara more power which is why riven could finally grant Savathun's wish only after it had granted our wish to kill it, so saying that their ability is even more powerful than the witness it self is a bit of a stretch, but in theory it could be possible if the ahamkara was strong enough to grant it could possibly overpower the witness in granting some wish.
Next season , season of the dragon, we have to hatch the egg in order to follow the witness and it will involve the restoration of mara thrown world in order to gain access to a wish dragon incubator
I don’t think Savathun has an Ahamkara of her own. As we saw with her illusion guard Ahamkara, it was I believe identical to Riven which is unusual as Ahamkara were known to change their form. I don’t think it feasible that more than one Ahamkara felt it safe to take their true forms. I believe Savathun used an illusion of Riven sans Taken energy. 27:58
so I was scanning about TH-cam and I found this series of shorts that feature a dragon named Fwench fwie a dragon that grants wishes...someone get Shaxx I think the Great Hunt must reignite.
After the finale Ikora mentioned we had to search for what we needed to get through the portal "whatever form it was in" or something to that effect. As i recal, Ahamkara are shape shifters. I wonder if we're finally going to revisit that 15th wish finally powered by a new wish dragon.
Season of the Dragon🤞 We're going to wish our way into the Traveler. By hatching Mara's dragon and protecting until its strong enough to wish magic a portal. But Zavala and Shax are against us hatching a new Ahamkara because they remember the great hunt. They are worried that we won't be able to control it or that some other hostile power will steal it. So we the Guardian will need to protect the dreaming city from Fikrul who wants the Ahamkara to undo the wish that Uldren made. Ending his immortality and finally letting his scorn to die and live peacefully in an afterlife or death.
Why would we stop Fikrul from ending the scorn? I feel we’d want to help him do that as the scorn are now one of the witness’ biggest meat machines to throw at us
hats off to all you legends out there trying to piece together a coherent overall story arc out of this convoluted BS. I can't do it, but shine on you crazy diamonds.
The quote by Eris, stating that her presence is an omen, implying she brings bad tidings and chaos with her, in terms of warnings, reminds me of Eris, the Greek Goddess of discord, or chaos. An interesting connection if you think about it. In many ways, Eris is like the goddess of discord in more than name. Though, she certainly isn’t as malevolent as her.
If we are taking the route of making a wish, it might just be as easy as “I wish to stop the Witness”. That would grant us access into the portal in the traveler, while also giving us Cayde as our guide through the pale heart
What about exotic class armour that transforms you into hive looks depending on class, like the armours perk includes that it transforms you and it applies an overriding ornament
I think savathuun made a wish and that’s why all of destiny is a game. Idk the wish exactly but it’s connected to sacred geometry and how it’s all connected. Even if they lose, humanity and reality wins and continues to exist.
wyrm in I believe Germanic folklore are limbless dragons so they could have been playing of that with the hive gods since from the depiction of riven has at least limbs and is a dragon so I could see a relation
It's interesting that you made this video because I was just thinking after all that has happened with Savathûn and our new perspective with her and the traveler and the witness. Why did she curse the dreaming city in the first place? I don't think that was explained. What advantages did it give her?
What if the wish is how Eris ultimately banished Xivu: -green soul fire orb in her left hand that she addresses when she enacts it (same hand as she holds her wish bone) -wish magic, as Byf notes, could transcend the power of a disciple (Xivu and the general power of throne worlds) -could be a ripple of Savathün and Rivens bargain -Byf has also previously opened the question of who fills the void that is left by Xivu’s vacant throne, what if this allows Riven to return and take that throne (hardest raid in Destiny history reprised?)
I'm not sure what exactly the wish will be but it'll have something to do with getting into the portal of the traveler or even defeating the witness itself. What has me curious is what Savathun told us about getting into the portal. "I've already showed you". At first (you bringing up how the Worm Gods and Wish Dragons are similar made me think Ahsa is secretly a Wish Dragon as well. But now it wouldn't make sense for her to tell us to ask Savathun just to be told to go back to Ahsa again. So something we did during this season showed us how to get into the portal and will reveal itself once we're ready. What was it tho? How to become a hive? How to cast spells? Or was it the ability to sever the connection between a being and their throan world aka the Ascendant Plain? Evaze mentioned that this has never been seen or takes about happening in destiny lore. A first if it's kind. We know the taken are born in this Ascendant plain. We also know Mara's dragon egg is taken. What if we just learned how to purify the egg from being taken. Is that what Savathun showed us?
Okay my predictions: season of the dragon. Or season of the wish. We have to invade xivu araths excommunicated thrown world somehow, to find the dragon she has imprisoned there and eris will have to make a wish (maybe ikora will intervene and make the wish herself), to get through the portal into the traveler.
I read tarot intuitively and very amateurly, but I’ve been doing it for seven years now at least, and it feels like that’s where the tarot reading and your explanations are leading imo And your tarot stuff seemed spot on to me!
What I don't get is how are we so certain riven was the last ahamkara? When the illusion one pops up in witch queen the ghost acts like it's physically impossible for there to be more but how? The universe is massive so there could be more no?
Perhaps the goal of next season is to hatch the last egg, and the wish referenced in the cards is the wish we’re going to make: the wish to enter the portal Season of the Wish?
Watch it be part of Sav's Wish; or we end up making a Wish to follow the witness into the Traveler's Pale Heart. We have tons of Ahamkara bones around.
Well… it is believed that the Worms are not completely from Fundament. It could be that all come from the same planet pulled into Fundament. The Ahamkara were land inhabitants, and the Worms were of the ocean. That could mean that the Ahamkara were once part of the Worms that evolved to live on land. How they appear elsewhere? Well, Ahsa fled Fundament through space, so maybe the Ahamkara fled Fundament and looked for a better place to live. The Worms evolved to live in the Deep of Fundament and they also made a pact with darkness, a pact which appears to alter one’s form
I had always imagined the "O ______ mine" construction to not be those words exactly, but rather the construction is simply the easiest way to translate it into english. The idea could be the same, a trap to steal power from the target no matter the outcome, but the words are less important than the Meaning of the thing.
If the wish dragons don’t do a wish for us us guardians will either make it into a exotic gun or exotic armor
I mean, yes, but probably both could be true too, get a wish AND make a weapon. lol
@@nicholasschoonbeck6866knowing us, we wished for a weapon anyway
I mean we've already gotten some from them (Read: made from their bones) such as the skull of dire Ahamkara, the claws of Ahamkara, the sealed Ahamkara grips, young Ahamkara's spine, the one-thousand voices, hell it was a theory back in the day that bad juju also made from an ahamkara and (while this is wild headcanon that I just came up with) the otherside sparrow may even have something to do with them (however there is no proof outside of that face it has an animal skull on it and the lore is really weird but said lore doesn't reference the Ahamkara it's just weird) so it's not like there's a shortage of stuff from them (unless your a titan cus I don't think there are any titan exotics that are Ahamkara related) but it would absolutely be 100% on brand for the Guardian to wish for loot and I would absolutely love it if that happend!
That's straight up animal abuse.
@@kronost06 the animal abused us first
Maybe the real wish was the friends we made along the way? Or the inappropriate stuff we wished along the way.
we don't need the world knowing
The friends we made along the way: *profusely flips everyone off*
@@SWAGberg2012 screaming obscenities at randos and NPCs too 😂
@@teramael Teabags random Fallen just trying to chill in the tower
Unload your full stock of rockets onto random dregs in the cosmodrome
Season of the Dragon Bungie, lets get it!
5:50 there's a reason eyes evolve independently, because it provides the organism with awareness of its surroundings. For the phrase 'o ___ mine' to appear independantly in different species it has to mean there's some reason behind it, that using it invokes some power that isn't inherent for, let's say, school of thought, but rather the phrase itself can invoke that power. Either way, it's a proof that Ahamkara and Worms are related or they are not related and there's a deeper reason for the phrase to appear (IMO the first one is more interesting but the second one is more probable as wish magic seems to be more within the realm of Darkness' consciousness theme)
It has already been confirmed that ahamakara uses light to power their wishes. It’s basically the light version of a worm
My personal headcanon is that savathuns wish was based around her desire to escape/kill the witness and we're seeing the fruition of that wish come to pass. It would be really cool if we ended up going back to the dreaming city next season
And that wish caused the curse on the dreaming city, so the curse is the key to the portal maybe. Also all the stuff about ascending to higher planes of existence that savathun was trying at the time that people are theorizing about now could also be the key
I also believe her wish was that the Witness gets defeated.
OP, thank you for not writing "headcannon" 😂 for some reason it annoys me to no end when people write about their headhowizers and like..
@@elitereptilian200 Easy way I remember - Cannon goes boom, Canon is established events, and both destroy ships 😁
@@submachinegun5737Some fans believe, besides her wanting to survive and live a king life, that her ultimate goal, may be to escape the game, Destiny 2, and enter our reality. In a way, she has, players talk about what a great villain she is, how you, “love to hate her”. She’s that memorable. Even if we, or someone else, kills Immaru, then Savathun, and her entire brood, Savathun, in a way, will still live, in memory. But, honestly, I don’t see Savathun being killed off for a long, long time. The writers probably want to get more stories out of her before killing her off much later on. What’s more unpredictable though, is what her plans are after the Final Shape, after the Witness is killed, and it’s forces, killed, imprisoned, and/or routed out of Sol. Our system will mostly, be at peace. Save for a few enemy factions that still hold grudges. But I’m curious, if we’ll even lift the curse in the Dreaming City, or hunt down the remaining Worm Gods. Killing the Worm Gods wouldn’t end the Hive overnight. But it would lesson their number by a great deal. Ensuring they’d still be enemies to fight, but they’d be on a unavoidable path, to extinction.
It’s also interesting that the 1 thousand voices uses the same attack as xol, will of the thousands. A raid exotic from an ahamkara raid (who’s description refers to you as “o murderer mine”) that shares an attack and it’s naming convention with one of the major worm gods. So not only does riven share her naming convention with the worms, but a gun made to imply it’s made from her bones also shares an attack with them.
Riven is also known as riven of a thousand voices fir her tendency to mimic voices
What if the 15th wish is to get through the portal? Picture this: We never did anything with Riven's heart and at the end of the Last Wish raid the Techeuns say that we'll need it for "sake of plans to come". What if the final season of Lightfall is to somehow discover wish 15 and use Riven's heart to grant us the power to go through the portal the witness made and set us up for the Final Shape?
That's what I've been saying all season now
Ties well into savathun talking about deciphering the "pattern' with Osiris and Mara earlier this season
@@fightingforlife1211Perhaps. But, the real question is: at what price will this wish be granted? We could lose another ally/friend on our way to the conclusive end of this war.
@@garrettviewegh9028 the wish wall is a way to get around a "cost" for a wish. That was its design.
Agreed, that "come back to us for the sake of plans to come" has been knockin around my noggin ever since I finished Last Wish.
Just tuned in! 😁
Thanks for the plug @mynameisbyf. Love that you're discussing "The Wish" there is a lot to discuss here 👀
What if Savathûn actually *tricked* Riven with her wish, giving her power; by extension, tricking a more powerful being would tithe her more imbaru. What if she made herself stronger than an Ahamkara because she was able to outwit one, and that strength is what makes her so dangerous to the Witness.
That is possible, come to think. My first thought was a game of chess.
With Imbaru, Savathun could have gone eons of backtracking to do it and get away with it
Savathun said she left us the key to get to the Witness. We still have a Wish remaining from Riven. It would show her cunning to have left that for us so long ago.
Thank you for the shout!
Oh man I'm so hyped if they're bringing wish dragon lore back to the forefront!! Some of my fav parts of the lore here.
The strike footage in background looks amazing, it's a shame that it was vaulted
I remember playing this strike for the first time as a blueberry. Started Destiny during Forsaken, and when we finally killed that dang worm god when all just stood there and got killed when he fell on us🤣
Wow this whole video is so fascinating! Good job getting Moon in here to provide her knowledge about the Tarot and what it might have to do with these cards. It really does feel like Bungie actually took into account how you'd do an actual reading with these cards. A lot is up to interpretation, but it wasn't a thought exercise that I would ever be able to do. (so thanks for going into it for us!)
I think the wish will be the 15th wish. Up until now, the 15th wish hasn't been discovered, most likely because it wasn't actually coded into the game, as all the others were directly involved with the Last Wish Raid. This would be a good opportunity for bungie to finally say, "Oh look, you finally found it." Also, in one of Savathun's contingencies, she specifically mentioned Mara Sov discovering "the pattern," which would result in us guardians going to take "It" by force. I believe that the key to entering the portal is Mara Sov's unhatched Ahamkara. After we deal the final blow to Xivu Arath, Mara Sov will contact us to help with her egg in another season. Once the egg is hatched, We'll then use the wishing wall (via cutscene or lore entry) to input the 15th wish to allow us to enter the portal. I think bungie is going to retroactively say that Savathun's plan for cursing the dreaming city, was actually her way of "Showing us" what an Ahamkara is and how to wish upon on.
That makes perfect sense actually. All those plot points finally lining up is very satisfying.
That would help patch a plot hole as well. Savathuns actual plan for invading the dreaming city was to try and get into the distributary so she could make Imbaru real. Bungie has since forgotten that Imbaru doesn't actually exist and its presented a massive plot hole, as everything Savathun has done in Destiny up to this point was either in pursuit of making Imbaru real or as a consequence of the failure to do so. Culminating in her ridding herself of her worm so that she no longer needs to constantly feed it through acts of conquest.
With Imbaru now a real thing, she had no reason to do any of that, especially the dreaming city invasion. So I'm hoping bungie patches the hole by ascribing new motivations for the actions that were previously fuelled by that goal of making Imbaru real.
Wasn't the 14th wish the savathun wish for the dreaming city andthe 15th wish the wish to beat Riven?
Honestly having "Season of the Wish" be the final season that leads to the culmination of the light and darkness saga would be incredible. The 15th Wish and the Dreaming City curse is the greatest unsolved mystery in all of Destiny and it would be the sweetest bow before finally taking down The Witness.
No more sov seasons
It is also appropriate because the name Ex Diris, means "ominous events/oncomings", Haruspex... is also very ominous considering that for the past year, Eris has been dissecting and examining Savathun's body.
I like the blurring you've done to lore tabs. I always find myself reading ahead (thanks ADHD) and the slight blurring helps keep me focused on what is being narrated
This aged like fine wine
Imagine an Ahamkara pieced itself together from all the random bones never discovered!? I can only imagine a whole bunch of Hunters would be getting angry messages from their Young Ahamkaras Spines "Oh Bearer Mine! Please destroy the mutant wish dragon for he has my toes!!!"
Joking aside, imagine if caged inside the Imbaru Engine is an Ahamkara!? There's been stories of collosal Ahamkaras if the Imbaru Engine Tower is encasing an Ahamkara!? That beasty is HUGE!
You forget, even the nine are scared of the ahamkara.
I swear to god if next season is related to that ahamkara egg in Mara Sov's room from Season 15.....
Season 15? WISH 15? THAT HAS TO BE CONNECTED *conspiracy theorist screech*
The perfect thing about tarot is that its all based on intuition and the magic that comes with that image feeling, so as long as you're looking at it with an open mind, there is no real way to give a bad reading per say, at the end of the he day even if it's a video game, there's a lot to say about the conclusion we come to based of intuitive magics
"A little more than a dozen different ways to read Tarot exist"
Translation: Its a bunch of woo-woo that can mean really anything your mind chooses it to mean.
Less woo woo and more reflective journaling prompts.
@@AfroditeBell You can do journalism without 'magic' cards with 'non-linear meaning'
Calling it now. The wish was for the Penguins on Europa to save us all and by Gods they will
I think Savathun’s wish was for everything that has happen to happen. The curse was to make it so she could escape after Mara released her worm. Part of the negative effects from the wish would be she becomes mortal, but she actually knew the light chose her eons ago (not going to let her acting surprised guide me during WQ).
I like to think that YAS hunter users are just saying "I wish my grenade did a little more damage"
I enjoy this tarot reading because it obviously depends on the point of view of the observer. The reading as pertains to us, the 4th wall observer with the extra knowledge that we have and our disconnected point of view, is very different than to Eris.
1. Blades : The battle between light and dark
2. The Adherent: Us the player
3. The sisters: In broadest terms at this moment (Xivu, Eris and Savathun) their battle for dominance and hierarchy, their interrelated plans and machinations.
4. The Harbinger: The Witness
5. The Lie: What we've known so far of the relationship between light and dark
6. The Aspects of the Light: What we've known leading up to the arrival of the pyramid ships
7. The Witch: Savathun who may have the answer to our wish
8. The Truth: In this case a question as to what is the truth behind Darkness and Light and our reason for pursuing the Witness
9. Lament: Our loss and our inability to currently follow the Witness
10. The Wish: For a way to follow the Witness into the Traveler
That's just what I get from this reading.
I think the worn species were all once like Asha, but then I think the Ahamkara were given the Light and the Worm Gods were given the Darkness and that’s what separated them. Just a thought I’ve had since Forsaken
Can i get like a pocket Riven or something? Like a gecko sized wish lizard that sits on ghost and antagonizes him?
The wish has something to do with us getting through the portal is what I’m thinking is going on here!
I had a conversation on Reddit a while back about wish magic. It seems to be the only thing that rivals or even succeeds the witness because of how potent it’s reality altering properties are.
There’s a small possibility we can use wish magic against the witness. We have bones in the dreaming city, Riven’s heart, and I believe Mara Sov still has that wish dragon egg.
Hey Byf, what is your opinion on Zorpalods, will their lore be enriched after the final shape???
Siva ballyhoo gahlr
Oh Traveler, the DCJers are loose
i said on your video about Xivus champion we defeated that "what if the light eater fought the Ahamkara ? Xivu said that they wore their corpses or bones as armor or something like that and all i thought about was how we have exotic armor thats like "bone". Hence ahamkaras spine etc. But it starts to make sense
Consider also that savathun is a piece still on the board, her plans could be a part of that wish and the one she previously made.
...Anyone else thinking about Riven claiming both our kind are inseparable now? Maybe that's connected, and we're about to find out how deep that runs.
Wish 15 possibly?
There's so much mystery in this Season, yet it all feels underplayed because of how it's presented. I still hold hope that we'll get a secret Exotic Quest before this Season ends
When that doesn't happen, please don't cry too much
We got the tessellation pre order exotic this season. That replaces the exotic quest for the season, same thing happened last year with quicksilver storm and season of plunder.
I know this is really old, but I wanted to add my perspective. Each of the cards are created through hive magic as needed. I interpret that action as the drawing, and assume that the full major arcana (or their analogues) were possible but not needed for this spread. In this ritual, based on my interpretation, the cards not created where the ones that a tarot reader would have left in the deck.
There are so many possibilities of what could show up next season and what will be the key to entering the portal. Savathûn's secret item, which may be an Ahamkara, the spire that's pointing at the Traveler on the Witness' Pyramid, Mara and her egg, I've heard possibly Nezarec being involved, perhaps this will come around to Dûl Incaru and the Curse, perhaps even Medusa may come around again. UuuuuUUUUGH! This is driving me crazy!!!
another room has open in the imbaru engine when you get the 43 minor card ^^ its an intresting look :3 and the the radio message for this week is also intresting :3
My theory is that the last Season before The Final Shape will bring us back to the Dreaming City and to the final wish on the Wall of Wishes.
In the run to the finale of the Light and Darkness Saga, we have returned to and resolved all of the previous expansions. The last one being a conclusion to Forsaken feels right.
Makes me think about that ahamkara skull hanging above Shaxx that seemed to be putting Savathun’s song into his head a while back…
8:12
I like the Failsafe body transfer Wish
Hey Byf. I Whispered to the void and I was left on read.. it didn't whisper back...should I be worried 😢
the destiny wiki says that Ahamkara are shape-shifting creatures, which would explain the similarity between the Worm Gods and the Wish Dragons, as well as explaining how the tiny, clearly not from a giant dragon bones that make up the various Ahamkara armors could still be from an Ahamkara, just one that had taken a different form. Alternatively, ahamkara bones could still retain that shapeshifting property, and shape themselves to the armor form the bearer desires.
Reminder that for The Witch we also have "tech witches". Iirc, Mara is also a trained techeun, putting her in play as a queen and witch.
The egg in Mara's possession hatching would be an incredible implication to the Destiny universe. An egg left by Riven, the last wish dragon, giving birth to the first of the wish dragons
It's been so long since I've seen Riven done without the cheese....such a beautiful raid
It'd be funny if everything, The Curse..The Wish, all led to this.
The Curse and its mysteries fuelling Imbaru feeding Savathûn's Worm, Eris gains tithes and one "ultimate tithe" taking down Savathûn by the sword logic. Granting Eris the necessary power to deal a crippling blow to Xivu.
There's an aspect missing, but it could all be a long slow burn, every action and reaction necessary for following through the portal.
I mean, it's possible that Savathûn saw the futility in humanity trying to oppose The Witness. And long since knocked over a domino sequence culminating in her getting an ultimate upper hand over her sister, meanwhile bringing together all bar Vex to pursue The Witness. Fighting where "The Sky" is theoretically the strongest.
What if, we end up using the egg to make that 15th wish, and that wish being for the knowledge on how to cross through the portal. Savathun said we'd discover the way through, and all this has led to the Wish card. Everyones connections to the wish dragons and Riven specifically, maybe the 15th wish is what gets us through. Either made by Savathun, Eris, Mara, or even someone from the Vanguard. Just a thought
6:14
I interpreted it as xivu saying they are gods, but ours should be only ones to that has a right to exist. Since she is the embodiement of the sword logic
I wonder if the reason Eris is such a hazard in other timelines is because the wish she made to survive twisted her. Her caving into power that affects so many timelines could be one of the ramifications of that wish to escape the Hellmouth.
An interesting thing is did Ikora not say "we have to find out what form its taken" or something similar in refrence to the key for us to get through the portal? are Ahamkara not shape shifters also? seems plausable for the key to be an ahamkara itself.
No. No, no no! When the final week droped and I saw that opaque card, I said: "If this is the Last Wish, the one Savathun made, it'll wrap a pretty bow on everything!"
I even mentioned this in a Meylin video about the same thing. I hope we're right about this, I dearly hope.
Savathun said we had all we need to go through the portal... we need a wish to follow the witness
On the past/future interpretation, we can rule out things based on when Eris drew the reading. She couldn't have done the reading until this week when we helped her find the final card. That means her being a hive god is all in her past. The reading is after all the events of the season so far.
You said there was many ways to read the cards with the right column always changing the order perhaps the correct order to read them is told in the lore tabs for example the exotic weapon lore says (ex debris) the witch above that the truth then lament then the wish) maybe? Maybe there is more orders in other lore tabs for the other cards not just those 4. Just a thought
Kinda wished that they made the tarots on the table relate to the wish wall and those cards would reflect something close to the symbols on it so we can get the 15th wish for real
The description of the words enclosing mine reminds me of what I loved about the original Suspiria movie. I don't know how many people even noticed, but a lot of the camera's perspective is subliminal messaging. Probably the best example is where the 2 girls are swimming in the pool together, & as the camera pulls back slowly, first you see them "running" in place (& getting nowhere), then the lines in the pool sort of trap them, then the pool shape layers that, & going further back, even the last vantage point of the shot, creating multiple "boxes" to trap the girls, also make the viewer wonder "who" the "watcher" might be. There is another one I remember, using a lightbulb, but the film is filled with that.
The lore team of bungie is just continuously impressive
"Tell you?" Savathtn frowned, her voice edged with disappointment. "I already *showed* you."
"One wish granted deserves another. And I cannot wait to *show* you what SHE wished for."
The arcana of the wish is the 12th. In the tarot de marseilles, it correspond to the hanged man. i guess looking into its significance might hint us at something ?
All the lore aside, which is still extremely interesting and I very much hope they bring the wish dragons back in some way, but seeing a kinetic ammo drop was a mental flashbang for me that I had to stop the video to remember when they got rid of it
Who'd imagine dragons would be the topic today lol. The wish could be still part of Queen Mara Sov, since she had wished for unique paracausal powers from Riven at one point, so once all the enemies of the Traveler arrived to the Sol system Riven's power had to adjust for all the new powers it had to sift through to eliminate possible powers for Mara.
I always believe that the 15th wish would just be savathun wishing for more wishes. Riven killing off the other dragons might just be a way to utilize them being "aware" or whatever despite being dead. So i feel like at some point we might get more of them.
The ability to grant wishes the ahamkara possess isn't absolute and infallible, they can't just grant any wish asked, they need a sufficient amount of power to grant certain wishes and granting those wishes in turn grants the ahamkara more power which is why riven could finally grant Savathun's wish only after it had granted our wish to kill it, so saying that their ability is even more powerful than the witness it self is a bit of a stretch, but in theory it could be possible if the ahamkara was strong enough to grant it could possibly overpower the witness in granting some wish.
7:55
Crap we could've had the chance to ask there that.
I'm aware that Immaru rezed her a second time and allowed her to leave into hiding.
Next season , season of the dragon, we have to hatch the egg in order to follow the witness and it will involve the restoration of mara thrown world in order to gain access to a wish dragon incubator
I don’t think Savathun has an Ahamkara of her own. As we saw with her illusion guard Ahamkara, it was I believe identical to Riven which is unusual as Ahamkara were known to change their form. I don’t think it feasible that more than one Ahamkara felt it safe to take their true forms. I believe Savathun used an illusion of Riven sans Taken energy. 27:58
so I was scanning about TH-cam and I found this series of shorts that feature a dragon named Fwench fwie a dragon that grants wishes...someone get Shaxx I think the Great Hunt must reignite.
After the finale Ikora mentioned we had to search for what we needed to get through the portal "whatever form it was in" or something to that effect. As i recal, Ahamkara are shape shifters. I wonder if we're finally going to revisit that 15th wish finally powered by a new wish dragon.
Season of the Dragon🤞
We're going to wish our way into the Traveler. By hatching Mara's dragon and protecting until its strong enough to wish magic a portal. But Zavala and Shax are against us hatching a new Ahamkara because they remember the great hunt. They are worried that we won't be able to control it or that some other hostile power will steal it. So we the Guardian will need to protect the dreaming city from Fikrul who wants the Ahamkara to undo the wish that Uldren made. Ending his immortality and finally letting his scorn to die and live peacefully in an afterlife or death.
interesting theory!
Why would we stop Fikrul from ending the scorn? I feel we’d want to help him do that as the scorn are now one of the witness’ biggest meat machines to throw at us
hats off to all you legends out there trying to piece together a coherent overall story arc out of this convoluted BS. I can't do it, but shine on you crazy diamonds.
Wow this is the earliest I've ever been
Not related to the video but at 27:40 does anyone know what Super icon that is on the bottom left? I don't remember seeing an icon like that.
The quote by Eris, stating that her presence is an omen, implying she brings bad tidings and chaos with her, in terms of warnings, reminds me of Eris, the Greek Goddess of discord, or chaos. An interesting connection if you think about it. In many ways, Eris is like the goddess of discord in more than name. Though, she certainly isn’t as malevolent as her.
Thirty whole minutes of Lore Daddy? Count me in
If we are taking the route of making a wish, it might just be as easy as “I wish to stop the Witness”. That would grant us access into the portal in the traveler, while also giving us Cayde as our guide through the pale heart
What about exotic class armour that transforms you into hive looks depending on class, like the armours perk includes that it transforms you and it applies an overriding ornament
I think savathuun made a wish and that’s why all of destiny is a game. Idk the wish exactly but it’s connected to sacred geometry and how it’s all connected. Even if they lose, humanity and reality wins and continues to exist.
wyrm in I believe Germanic folklore are limbless dragons so they could have been playing of that with the hive gods since from the depiction of riven has at least limbs and is a dragon so I could see a relation
It's interesting that you made this video because I was just thinking after all that has happened with Savathûn and our new perspective with her and the traveler and the witness. Why did she curse the dreaming city in the first place? I don't think that was explained. What advantages did it give her?
What if the wish is how Eris ultimately banished Xivu:
-green soul fire orb in her left hand that she addresses when she enacts it (same hand as she holds her wish bone)
-wish magic, as Byf notes, could transcend the power of a disciple (Xivu and the general power of throne worlds)
-could be a ripple of Savathün and Rivens bargain
-Byf has also previously opened the question of who fills the void that is left by Xivu’s vacant throne, what if this allows Riven to return and take that throne (hardest raid in Destiny history reprised?)
I'm not sure what exactly the wish will be but it'll have something to do with getting into the portal of the traveler or even defeating the witness itself. What has me curious is what Savathun told us about getting into the portal. "I've already showed you". At first (you bringing up how the Worm Gods and Wish Dragons are similar made me think Ahsa is secretly a Wish Dragon as well. But now it wouldn't make sense for her to tell us to ask Savathun just to be told to go back to Ahsa again. So something we did during this season showed us how to get into the portal and will reveal itself once we're ready. What was it tho? How to become a hive? How to cast spells? Or was it the ability to sever the connection between a being and their throan world aka the Ascendant Plain? Evaze mentioned that this has never been seen or takes about happening in destiny lore. A first if it's kind. We know the taken are born in this Ascendant plain. We also know Mara's dragon egg is taken. What if we just learned how to purify the egg from being taken. Is that what Savathun showed us?
this whole season is funky and hurts my head
We needed Savathun to tell us we need to use a wishdragon? I surely hope this is not the way it goes.
I’m starting to wonder if the way we can enter the Traveler has some relation to the Ahamkara or the Nine.
Who else is waiting for him to do a video aboit saint 14 killing savathun
Tarot reading nerds, it is finally your time to shine.
I think the wish could represent the wishes both savathun and eris made, or it could represent eris wishing xivu out of her throne world
Okay my predictions: season of the dragon. Or season of the wish. We have to invade xivu araths excommunicated thrown world
somehow, to find the dragon she has imprisoned there and eris will have to make a wish (maybe ikora will intervene and make the wish herself), to get through the portal into the traveler.
I read tarot intuitively and very amateurly, but I’ve been doing it for seven years now at least, and it feels like that’s where the tarot reading and your explanations are leading imo
And your tarot stuff seemed spot on to me!
Sava wishes we were smart enough to throw the K1 artifact at the portal.
What I don't get is how are we so certain riven was the last ahamkara?
When the illusion one pops up in witch queen the ghost acts like it's physically impossible for there to be more but how? The universe is massive so there could be more no?
Perhaps the goal of next season is to hatch the last egg, and the wish referenced in the cards is the wish we’re going to make: the wish to enter the portal
Season of the Wish?
Watch it be part of Sav's Wish; or we end up making a Wish to follow the witness into the Traveler's Pale Heart. We have tons of Ahamkara bones around.
Well… it is believed that the Worms are not completely from Fundament. It could be that all come from the same planet pulled into Fundament. The Ahamkara were land inhabitants, and the Worms were of the ocean. That could mean that the Ahamkara were once part of the Worms that evolved to live on land. How they appear elsewhere? Well, Ahsa fled Fundament through space, so maybe the Ahamkara fled Fundament and looked for a better place to live. The Worms evolved to live in the Deep of Fundament and they also made a pact with darkness, a pact which appears to alter one’s form
If you have two witches with two wishes
And the question is
"Which witch's wish?"
The answer is...
Both
I think it is worth noting that Riven was the last KNOWN Ahamkara
I think the Wish is our answer. It's how we get through the portal. We Wish it to be so.
I had always imagined the "O ______ mine" construction to not be those words exactly, but rather the construction is simply the easiest way to translate it into english. The idea could be the same, a trap to steal power from the target no matter the outcome, but the words are less important than the Meaning of the thing.