@@mythic126 a 5w radio will transmit upto a 100km with a decent antenna, even farther with a directional one.
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@@prakharmishra3000 or a much higher range on HF bands as there won‘t be problems with earths curvature. Otherwise, 100km on QPSK/40dBm EIRP could be possible.
I think this is quite nice. But I see a few problems with it: -You would need a lot of devices everywhere, and a few users. -You would have to broadcast in a not regulated frequency, or one which specifically allows it. Those are different for every country, and some countries don’t have them. -Powering the devices. It is not a huge deal in cities, but making such a device fully solar powered would have some advantages, like dropping it off in the wild.
N-O-D-E the Lora 900 MHz might work. I don’t think the 400 MHz band can be used to mesh in the USA. That’s why the gotenna is not compatible with the newer gotenna mesh.
for the first problem. you could have a network of dedicated relay devices which would be self sustaining. These could be managed in a similar way in which geocaches are managed.
+N-O-D-E The problem with LoRa is that the data bandwidth is very limited, and unsuitable for anything else than simple, slow, and rate-limited text messages. As someone in the comments suggested, we should have a look at the existing HAM packet radio software and hardware, and base the project off that.
CodeBurger That's a good idea in principle and I fully support HAM operators, but that does require licensing and the traffic cannot be encrypted. All transmissions over HAM bands need to be broadcast in a way which allows for the government to intercept and/or record it. All are logged as required. It's a great platform, but it is very heavily regulated. Not the best point to jump into RF for newcomers. This project would ideally be accessible to anyone who can work with a Pi and some basic electronic and radio components.
If you need any help with this, I did this. Batman-adv mesh network + AX.25 amateur radio protocol for tcp/ip communication for anything from shortwave to AUX cables to LAN. Created a satellite network prototype with it. Connected to German internet over shortwave from turkey (~3500km) w/ 9600kB. Wrote quite a lot of documentation on setting up the eoax linux kernel module (the "bridge" between AX.25 and normal eth0, batman-adv only works this way).
Stuff like web hosting, ssh, ftp, scp & even X11-window-forwarding works, even though it's quite slow. I plan on creating an "automatic" iface switcher so that it would be possible to just switch between wlo, bluetooth etc.
I have been following the movement for quite a while now. But haven't worked with the tech yet. I do have a contribution thou, there is a web-bluetooth API that allows you to connect from a website to a bluetooth device. Instead of developing a mobile app + desktop, you could develop a single Progressive Web APP that works on all clients and allows for easy modification, updating and since it's on the web it is accessible to more users and developers.
Something else that would be needed in the software end is a protocol to allow the messages to target gateways or users. WebRTC could be used as a transport protocol over the internet to enhance a distributed infrastructure. WebRTC could also be used to reduce latency of the messages, the app could upload which nodes it is in contact with effectively reducing the amount of hops a message will theoretically have. You should setup a forum or a Discord so we can all bounce ideas from each other.
i haven't really worked on anything with lora but last year i did go to the things network where they explained a thing or two about lora and from what i understand it's aimed at very little packets of data only for sensors so sending messages might be pushing it a little but it's worth a try
This is a great idea with good potential. *Mesh boxes* are awesome ! When we can at least have enough bandwidth for audio messages, or images, then people would use it for messaging. If we make it under 50 USD, then the underdeveloped places around the world will buy it ! Even people in developed places would buy it, as long as it's as simple as putting it close to the window, where the sun shines. Setting up a good colab on Github, and making prototypes is the good step forward form here. Universities and Fab Labs would build the prototypes. Some students would even apply and get a research grant to build one, if the design and software is doable in the 6 month time.
My favorite thing about node is that in one video there is so much more thought and planing in one video then there is in 1/2 of kick starter projects.
good idea! but signal range will drain battery pretty quick. also - cryptography? waterproof? empty frequencies? few more obstacles will rise along the way
i imagine it would probably be on the MURS radio frequency so that the user didn't need a amateur radio license to use it legally which would limit range to about 10 miles in the very best of conditions, the range problem could be solved by the use of repeaters. in the U.S the FCC gets butt hurt if you broadcast encrypted messages. to make matters worse the cucks with radio licenses like to track down and report people broadcasting illegal transmissions personally i like where this project is going but i would find it much more interesting if instead of having the antenna connected directly to this device if it took input from your phone and then allowed you to connect to any radio you wanted that way you could choose any frequency and power output you wanted, the benefit being if you want to do local you could dial down the power and broadcast on VHF/UHF for 0-20 miles or on the other end with HF communicate with people in other continents
I think adding USB tethering to the device would be a more universal option than bluetooth. Bluetooth should still be used, but on devices without bluetooth, usb teather should be an option. I think it possible with the current hardware, but just an idea.
This would require usb OTG, which all Android phones should be compatible with, but unfortunately are not. Bluetooth is probably a more universal and reliable standard in this case
The issue with this (at least in my opinion) is that LRaWAN is quite slow. Having such a device as a normal gateway has the potential to spam the entire network assuming the broadcast behaviour of a normal Laptop / Phone.
I like the idéa, but I think the ESP32 might be a good alternative to a full Linux system. They're smaller and cheaper. There even are boards on eBay with ESP32 + SX1278 + OLED + USB + LiPo support for 15USD... sounds like a good dev platform to me. For people that doesn't live in big cities cheaper nodes would be useful as you might need several to find someone to link up to and making them weather proof + solar charging would also be great if you need to put them outside. Either way I think it would be greater to have an app and protocols that is hardware agnostic to allow users to implement it with different hardware. someone might want to make that standalone terminal, someone might want to make one with a smaller micro controller etc. I might be interested in helping.
I am an Android Developer and an Engineering Student I think this idea is amazing if messaging is to be used the messages can be encrypted using a public key that can be accessed from a blockchain based contact list , and when the message is broadcasted and it reaches the node it will check whether the message can be decrypted by him or not and if it cant be decrypted it will transmit it and the process will continue until the message is reached . and For the name for this Device better if it is DNRMS (Decentralized Node Based Radio Messaging System).
Additionally, you have to worry about the message delivery from multiple routes. For broadcasting, we should implement a dns-style pathfinding algorithm that will query surrounding nodes for a recipient and return the shortest route to avoid multiple delivery and ensure the quickest transfer rate
Unfortunately adding block chain to everything is a huge trend right now but it isn't exactly feasible given the restrictions of such a network. I agree that it would probably help the project if we had unlimited bandwidth, but there's a reason we don't mine crypto currency with our phones, which are many times more powerful than the kind of device we'd be designing
i have to agree with other people in the comments blockchaining everything is SO unnecessary. sorry man we dont need blockchain to do this just a simple p2p message application like TOX. which utilizes DHT for its contact sharing. just to add a little bit. there is file sharing that uses blockchain which is totally unnecessary and a alternative works just as well without it.
Collin Clark Not all cryptocurrencies have to be mined in the way you are describing (proof of work). Blockchain could be used as an incentive layer, so people who use the network pay to send messages, but also get payed to relay other people's messages.
+iSasFTW And what happens to end-nodes, that can't relay messages because of near-complete isolation? And what about Isolated networks that can't synchronize?
There are several solutions like this already. GoTenna & beartooth are but some. and of course there's apps that create their own "mesh network" using bluetooth which work especially well in a school or large gatherings. I love your ideas my friend. This is just one that has a lot of competition. So if you were the one that succeeded you'd have left a LOT of others dead in their very well funded ways.
You're on to something. I came across Power Talkie 2 days ago and I loved the concept as I'm an outdoorsman and I love having a backup in certain situations. I found that product too pricey and thought to myself, I work in a battery store where I have to do minor electronics work on a regular basis but I have little knowledge without an assembly plan or an existing product to copy, but would love to build a couple if not more. I looked at other options like the Gotenna, Gotoky, Sonnet, and Go GPS which all to basically the same thing. They are a Bluetooth device to connect to with your phone, to make a mesh network without the requirement of a telecom tower. They can send text messages, pictures, small voice messages, radio communications and GPS locations by the reach of an RF signal. A solar panel is a good idea to a point. All batteries have a shelf life and a limit of charge cycles. If you don't have a way to say it is okay to charge then you are waisting charge cycles on the battery. It would have to be programmed as such. the antenna should be a standard removable one from an RF radio to attach bigger ones at the user's discretion. Batteries should be a removable lithium-Ion battery for easy change when the battery has reached the end of its life. It should be water-resistant or maybe waterproof. It should also be small and light. Some have a USB port to charge other devices. The app is another big part. It has to be user-friendly, securely encrypted,, availability to android and IOS, and take minimal space and resources. If someone can come up with a plan to assemble this and another to program the phone app and the device firmware with instructions on how to install them. I'm all ears for testing and trying prototypes as long as they don't break the bank. I will give a full unbiased test and opinion. Feel free to message me if you have a design and I'll give it a whirl in some of the least wirelessly serviced places in Eastern Canada.
sounds really cool. i wouldn't be much help, but i support it wholeheartedly, and would buy one if it were decently cheap, due to a low financial situation
Quick design tip, maybe have a solar panel on both sides so that you wouldn't have to worry about it's orientation once you clip it onto a backpack. This could also trickle charge it to keep it charged if you are constantly hiking or outdoors.
All these project sound like really good ideas. I would suggest including battery monitor/eliminator and trickle charge circuits. That way, if you have it plugged up to AC power to charge, it will charge until the battery is at capacity, then the eliminator circuit will kick in and power the device while monitoring and trickle charging the battery as needed until the line AC is removed, at which point the battery takes over and the solar charger is switched into function.
I followed you because you have genius ideas that I always wanted to materialize, I am with you on this one as I already got the beartooth which is closed source and resemble what you imagine so it can be done, hopefully greed does not block others from helping in making this happen.
I had the same idea 2yrs ago for my graduation project but abandoned it..sob* I consulted a professional in the telecoms industry and he made me think I was living in my own made up world😂 .I'm glad I found this channel. I think it's a brilliant idea.
I think the idea is a good one. The shortcoming is the chosen radio technology. What is needed is a 5-watt output in a reliable HAM freq. the would support long distance, fairly high-speed texting. It would make the optimum mesh network replacement for a town or prepper community to stay in touch in a grid down situation. Also, much better range if mesh networking in the woods. A 256 to 512-bit encryption feature would be optimal.
You should really make a slack group for this, I think it'd be great considering the current situation with net neutrality, I'm more a software guy but I'd love to collaborate with everyone on hardware and the rest of the software, LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN!
Very good concept. I was thinking that with the US canning Net Neutrality a sort of "pirate internet" could develop in response. I see mesh networks, peer-to-peer protocols and decentralisation as the future. We now live in a time where the individual has access to some pretty amazing technology - they're just completely unaware of it. I'd go even more ambitious than sending small packets of data for IMs or Bitcoin transactions. I know that LoRa doesn't have the bandwidth for anything larger than that but I'm sure there's alternatives that do. Imagine a completely decentralised internet with complete independence from ISPs. It's a flight of fancy but I think it's important and is something we should strive for.
Not encrypted, but we Ham Radio operators already do a lot of this. Look at WINLINK it allows for easy email like interface. Others available in other protocols such as Fusion, DMR, D-STAR, and packet.
It would be best to create a basic functionality (or multiple) that every device needs. This basic functionality could be expanded with a battery pack, solar, GPS or other stuff. With multiple functionalities i mean that you could make a repeater only device, a device that's connected via Bluetooth, a device that's part of a LAN...
Check out opengarden. They have an SDK called MeshKit that can be used to build p2p networks and they already have an app called FireChat that uses it. Adding a longer range radio would make it much more useable and less relyant on other users nearby.
The military has something like this when i was in the Marine Corps in the early 2,000s data packets that travel via radios, except it used postioning data instead of msgs. it was called EPLRS (EE-plars). i just googled it so at least its not secret anymore. maybe that will help flesh out your idea. it is also jam resistant.
I second the idea of a Discord server. Easy to set up for public access, with specific project developement channels. Also, for a name: Node Over Direct Emissions, or N-O-D-E.
I actually worked on a similar project for my design class my junior year. It was a device to act as a mini cell tower that connects via satelite for natural disasters. What i learned was that connection reliability and usability were a must. If you can do this with no app required that would be awesome. Research the Vodafone instant network from the vodafone foundation for more inspiration. Cant wait to see how this will turn out!!!!!
The idea of an off-grid mesh network like this is amazing. Would be great if it could be bundled into a solar powered box-on-a-pole setup. With transfer rates so extremely low I wonder how much use you'd be able to get out of a few of these spread across a small suburb? NODE-NET has a cool ring to it.
Sorry hate double posting comments, but to address both power capacity and the "emergency" power requirements, I've often wondered why more projects don't use "standard" vape batteries like the 18650 or newer 21700, I think the option for replaceable batteries is underrated
Nick Hechtel what about the Orange Pi Zero? They have blue tooth and can be bought in any quantity (unlike the raspi0) and the H2 runs $6.99US. It might be bulkier vertically than the Raspi0, but that can be quickly fixed with some simple component removal if you really want to save space. Is there a cheaper option?
I love this idea. I would build a device like that, if there was a mesh in my region. This could be really useful for e.g. a tracker of some sort without any Cell Phone Service needed. Also a tracker with a normal zero and an Lora module would probably be cheaper than getting a sim card for a pre build one.
Ive had this exact idea and think its great, Im just not savy enough to accomplish it from scratch. I would be excited to put one of these together. If you could make them cheap enough and include the solar, you could have a whole gang of them and put them out on roofs and other inaccessible places to establish your own network over long distances like a trail of breadcrumbs.
I have an idea like this but for a decentralized forum system much like how the oldest BBS systems worked where new messages were just zipped and stored until a connection to a new computer was made, which then got added to the database to whatever they were connecting to and then zipped over there ready to do the same to any other new connections. This would allow physical travelers to physically pick up mail/messages in very remote places and then have them physically carried to the next area where they could be delivered and then at some point in time be updated for everybody. People connected to the internet would be the 'exit' nodes, more so just nodes onto a different faster network though, and it could potentially be interfacable with most old BBS servers which are surprisingly still pretty high in numbers. To the technicalities, my thinking was that every user gets a 256 private key and 256 bit public id (for which people can reply and message) and then each new message gets a 600 bit header which is split into: 64 bit for POSIX time (64 bit instead of 32 bit), 256 bit public id of posting user, 256 bit optional for replying id, and 4 bits reserved for flags such as important, abuse, spam, and blocked, which servers/users could set up on their own to do what they see fit with the message (whether to save it, delete it, automatically add a user id to a blocklist etc) and then another 16 bits reserved for a post category with 4 bits reserved for later use. The body is then made up of a dynamic amount of text which is padded with 0's to 4,000 bits. The entire message is then run-length compressed and ready to be delivered. Now to the specs of the machine, storage would pretty much be the main issue as this is meant to passively transfer files at the expense of time since processing power/energy efficiency should be hugely optimized in order to get the most out of the machine. A 32 GB SD card, or something akin to it, should be enough since it could store over 100k 1,000 character long (4,000 bytes UTF-32 completely random data in a worst case scenario) along with all the user and public ids (73 bytes for 584 bits). Extra space can be seeded out by deleting the oldest messages, except those marked important, or compressed, since UTF-32 is very very compressible, at the expense of longer transfer speeds to new connections because of uncompression and transfer time. Onto the pragmatics of the situation, I am thinking of just doing a completely flat file database but am very open to suggestions on a different plan.A user is only going to be one per machine as having multiple users on a single machine makes no sense, unless accessing from a 'exit' node on the web in which webserver owners can create their own interface to user IDs. The posts would just be sorted by their category and respective time of posting. Clashing post ids will be left up to the server/user owner to decide to do with what to do them (either do them manually, automatically delete or overwrite the old, etc). Users can then flag posts how they see fit which would carry with a post if it is federated then to another server. Users can also unflag posts that were previously flagged as well, along with the category IDs which will then make this whole forum system completely democratic in its inception. Only a private ID verified against a public ID can post a message as that public ID for that generalized key-pair security that's become common nowadays. I don't really have any plans to encrypt it because there's really just no need, the only thing being transferred between users/servers are packaged messages which would be publicly available anyways, all security is handled on the device to make the whole design fully offline. I don't know enough about radiology as I'm more of a programmer but I think having a global, carry-able decentralized forum system seems like a very cool idea and if anyone can help me carry out this little idea of mine out into the real world I would be much grateful :D
This is looking like the right time to do something like this. There are other products out there, but we have huge respect for your engineering capabilities and the elegance of your designs.
I like the idea, I had one similar a time ago but didn't do anything. One thing to consider is the range of frecuencies the devices are going to work in order to not interfere with other stuff. Another thing to consider is the antena; if is small so the range so the capability to repeat messages would be needed. The idea I had was to comunicate outcasted towns with a similar device (other use case).
Sounds like a great idea! Even my keyboard wants me to install an app; so if it's possible to communicate without huge companies nosing in, I'm all for it.
I think it is a wonderful idea. I am uncomfortable depending on external services to transmit data, partially for privacy, but more importantly for events that would knock out communications (solar storms). I think having an emergency button would be beneficial. The bluetooth idea is excellent, but if your phone/computer is broken or missing then having the little device that connects to others will be made useless. With the button, you can send out a distress signal coupled with your GPS. Optionally the button instead sends morsecode beeps for computer-less messaging. The back of the housing has an embossed morsecode chart and maybe some other helpful information. My name suggestion would be TROI: Telecommunications over Radio Opensource Interface, alluding to Star Trek Counselor Troi's telepathic abilities.
This is what I'm hoping to find for Search and Rescue use. Where I volunteer, there is a very minimal chance of cell phone communication (15%), moderate to good satellite phone communication (80% but cost ineffective), and radios work when someone relays but not often to extended personnel. Part of my hope is to find a "Drop off" option in which multiple units can be dropped at key points to act as part of the relay of the mesh network. If the drop off option was a viable one, caves could carry coms too. I'm really hopeful that this has been developed more. I'm going to see if your channel offers some updates but wanted to leave a comment first.
I think it would be great. I like the idea of gotenna's device, but if I'm already carrying around an SDR, the ability to use it to say, tune in to emergency stations or communicate on CB with the proper antennae would be cool. That way you can potentially rescue/be rescued by someone who didn't happen to also buy into the same system
I think this is a great idea! I think that you should make a extra page on your website that has a forum for this. We could call it a Of-grid Emergency Antenna (O.E. Antenna).
Serious question: what would you do if approached by the FBI/CIA and commanded to either program or build them a backdoor (a la Lavabit)? If it hasn't happened yet, it probably will, at least if production gets off the ground
Here are some Ideas of my own: - use 433MHz frequency band for even higher range - App Development in QT because it provides built-in support for most platforms (excluding windows) doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtbluetooth-index.html - maybe even go more barebone without linux and a low-power arm-microprocessor - i think really important is security and how to encrypt/secure messages between devices (e.g. pgp)
Best idea I heard this year, reminds me of ProxyGambit/Ham + Gotenna. But there is ServalMeshnet that also looks similar. Great. Hope U build this, and others catch on and test/improve it.
Not sure if you're still working on this. I think it might be worth consdering replacing the Pi Zero W with something containing an nRF52840 or similar chip. Those have built-in 2.4GHz communication (BLE for example), and consume a lot less power than the pi. They're used everywhere, from smart radiator thermostats (Tado) to the Apple AirTag. There is a very mature SDK, even including a bootloader that allows upgrades over Bluetooth.
I really love this idea, I think the best way to do this is go through Kickstarter and everyone who backs it gets one and send them out across the country and possibly place them in places in cities to increase the range
You could try to kickstart it just purely for marketing and to guarantee getting it in the hands of a lot of people prior to it dropping to give it a better shot of functioning right off the bat
I was interested in putting this together for a while, but there are legality issues around the frequencies used, which would bring things into scrutiny. Still, cool idea! All the best with this project. I'd like to be involved to some extent, but my lack of useful experience would probably only set things back. Definitely invested in the idea!
I'm super late on this, but you should check out the Fognet project on IOTA. They are working on developing a Bluetooth mesh network protocal that seems similar. LoRa would make that project much more interesting.
I fancy the idea of having a mesh network at your fingertips whenever you click that device in action. No cell network fees, long range... It could work! I would certainly use it, but not with the bluetooth pairing mode... It's certainly a good feature, but with a low power LCD a small keyboard and some encryption you could have a text based walkie-talkie, and that's for me its selling point.
I love this idea, and would happily build and attach one to my backpack. Heck, I'd leave them in places with good sunlight access and a large broadcast footprint to function as unattended repeater nodes. My only concern would be how to get enough of them out there to really work. It seems like the biggest challenge isn't technical, but just achieving critical mass.
Random thought, if you make the device transmit a unique identifier then you could set it up so that it has a search function detecting all nearby devices, meaning that you can choose to pair with any connection you can find and it would save them in a contact list this way you could talk to multiple people as if it was simple text messaging app. The other person would have to accept you first though.
If you plan on building devices like this dont forget to check Amateur Radio regulations and talk to local clubs. Most likely you will encounter people who have already worked with stuff like this and they can provide plenty of insight. I'll definitely play around with the hardware side of this, not the most capable though when it comes to the software.
With such a device you strongly need to have the confirmation of delivery, because what if recipient's device is off or out of even that network coverage? Also, it might be useful to store data on the device as the Bluetooth could be disconnected, so it's better to store messages locally before sending them on a phone/PC
I may be a bit late to the party, but the Ham Radio community already does something like this on a massive scale. I've got Raspberry-Pi running a node on my desk right now. It's called D-star. There are a couple of other protocols too.
I'd definitely build one then or even multiple ones if they have a solar panel and put them somewhere around here in town tho I guess nobody would ever use them here lol
If it's running on a Pi, that opens up loads of customization possibilities from the software side. There could be an app developed to expose a lot of data from the user's device to be sent over the connection, and then the mesh node could also be used as any kind of wearable tracker, but where the user's data is kept completely under their control.
a mesh network over radio waves sounds fantastic, but I wonder if too many nodes close to each other may cause interference. for easy communication, I would assign each of the devices a random uuid when first registering, hoping it's not taken already. when sending a message, you specify the receiver by his uuid, and broadcast the signal. each of those devices could "forward" every message just once, hoping that it'll reach it's destination. of course, you'll need encryption with private and public keys and all that stuff. on the app side, I'd go for Java, since it's cross-platform for linux and windows PCs and Android phones and tablets. sorry, apple users! and here's one name suggestion: ALOCS. this is easy to say, and stands for anonymous long-range off-grid communication system. I think other people will come up with better abbreviations. edit: I'd save a chat history and all of the data exclusively on the pi, so any device can load it over Bluetooth. the phone/laptop device sync should be relatively easy, but I really don't know about the radio side stuff
Did you ever do anything more with this? I've recently been looking into the gotenna capabilities, because I wanted to make a longer range piratebox device.
I imagine that each device will have about 10 or so short-wave "stations" which it will broadcast "packets". This means the device can broadcast multiple packets at the same time. Each device will then re-broadcast the same packet once. The device will store a secure hash of the packet, as to not broadcast the same packet twice. Each packet will be signed with a private key, and encrypted with the receiver's public key. The packet will be marked with both. The short-wave radio design will allow for a mesh network that has long-distance connections, and few hops. Other rules like packet size and packet order will have to be set. Also, a protocol for blockchain transactions and blocks will have to be made so that it works in a more broadcast style, rather than a direct connection. DNS will also be an issue, maybe it should be just kept on the user's device or receiver?
Sounds like an awesome idea! Is LoRa really able to transmit that amount of data? From what I understand it's designed to send sensor readings from IoT devices, with a intervals of a few minutes between messages (which would not be good for chatting). Is there an alternative to LoRa that could potentially send larger amounts of data over at least a few kilometres?
LoRa has a couple different operating modes, but none really suitable to this. End devices talk to gateways, and while gateways can forward messages to other gateways, the gateways cost quite a bit more than the hats.
I'd recommend making a standalone version that can connect to a display and keyboard and a larger network-radius-extender that could be connected to an antenna and with a larger solar panel. I also noticed the Rpi0 based Zero-Phone making it's rounds recently, a friend of mine built his own, so implementing this into that would be amazing
I've always considered doing a diy sat phone to cut down the prices compared to how astromical the cost of the parts were, I imagine tying this into that sort of arrangement would be amazing :)
I remember you made a video about making an access point inside of a journal/notebook. I can't find it now, did you remove it? I'd just like to find what router you used.
I like the entire idea, but from the video i found a problem with it, lets consider that A has to message C and C is quite far away and the message has to be relayed from B's device and when A presses SEND & at the same time B switches off his device a soon as he recieved it. The message would be stuck in between A & B, from A side it would be considered to be Delivered but C would never recive it in time.
I think this is a great idea, nobody is gonna spend the money on a gotenna especially since not a lot of people know about it. Name one person who doesn’t know what a raspberry pi is and who doesn’t own one, I would definitely make this and Carry it with me everywhere I went! We definitely need a discord for this!! We could all work together to make irb
As far as I know, LoRa protocol does not support mesh topology. The protocol would be completely different if it did, and require different approaches for network discovery, routing between nodes, adding and removing devices from networks and such. I think lora is made for gateway - client operation.
Great idea! In regards to incentivizing the existence of mesh networks for data transfer I think IOTA could be quite suitable. You may join their slack channel and then ask at #projects. They have a similar project for the creation of mesh networks in and across refugee camps.
I like it. It think tweaking the wifi + antena will be the hardest part( both selecting the best hardware and the software). It must run open source drivers and no binary blobs.
We had the same idea with a friend since a long time. I think raspberry is a bit overpowered and power hungry for this device. Instead, an ESP32 could be used to process and transmit the signals (It could also go into deep sleep mode when not used). Encryption can be used to ensure the safety of the data between users and it needs some functionalities for finding the fastest route etc. 2.4 GHz channel is very crowded, so maybe using 433 Mhz transceivers is a better idea. A common messaging protocol between those devices needs to be made in order to ensure compatibility. Also, we can design some throwie type repeaters, powered only with solar and sit stationary in somewhere legal, and they should be cheap too.
it's a mesh network. Bandwidth is limited, but a DDOS should theoretically only be capable of taking down one node, if any. Granted, if this is to be built from the ground up, that could be eliminated
I know this video is old but it think it's more important now than it ever was, I'd be happy to help in any way I could. I'm not particularly experienced or skilled but I learn fast and I'm familiar with raspberry pi.
Have had the same idea for quite some time. I would not go for a RPi but rather one of the smaller and cheaper ESPs or (or similar). Developing for them is not very different but it is both smaller, cheaper and more power efficient. I could be interested in joining a project like this. I have been working with lowlevel implementations for BT/WIFI etc as a job for many years
I have been looking at this and found FCC licensing to be the hurdle for most. Radios capable of doing these sorts of things usually require HAM licenses to operate. However, there are some projects that are doing similar stuff to this but using it to transmit may run into issues.
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This wold also serve the sailing community. With the aerial on the mast the line of sight range would be massive.
not really unless you have stronger transmitters and planes and boats have this type of equipment already from what I have heard.
Gotenna bro.
@@mythic126 a 5w radio will transmit upto a 100km with a decent antenna, even farther with a directional one.
@@prakharmishra3000 or a much higher range on HF bands as there won‘t be problems with earths curvature. Otherwise, 100km on QPSK/40dBm EIRP could be possible.
Name suggestion: Externet.
Nipun Paradkar Pretty cool!
Yes it is.
The British had Brexit...
The Dutch have been polling around for a Nexit...
So why don't we call it Netxit?
No? K, I'll disappear to my attic again.
Offnet
facebook.com/groups/690526901150811/
I think this is quite nice. But I see a few problems with it:
-You would need a lot of devices everywhere, and a few users.
-You would have to broadcast in a not regulated frequency, or one which specifically allows it. Those are different for every country, and some countries don’t have them.
-Powering the devices. It is not a huge deal in cities, but making such a device fully solar powered would have some advantages, like dropping it off in the wild.
Yeah, LoRa was developed to work on license-free radio frequencies. They have a few different versions, for different regions
N-O-D-E the Lora 900 MHz might work. I don’t think the 400 MHz band can be used to mesh in the USA. That’s why the gotenna is not compatible with the newer gotenna mesh.
for the first problem. you could have a network of dedicated relay devices which would be self sustaining. These could be managed in a similar way in which geocaches are managed.
+N-O-D-E
The problem with LoRa is that the data bandwidth is very limited, and unsuitable for anything else than simple, slow, and rate-limited text messages.
As someone in the comments suggested, we should have a look at the existing HAM packet radio software and hardware, and base the project off that.
CodeBurger That's a good idea in principle and I fully support HAM operators, but that does require licensing and the traffic cannot be encrypted. All transmissions over HAM bands need to be broadcast in a way which allows for the government to intercept and/or record it. All are logged as required. It's a great platform, but it is very heavily regulated. Not the best point to jump into RF for newcomers. This project would ideally be accessible to anyone who can work with a Pi and some basic electronic and radio components.
If you need any help with this, I did this. Batman-adv mesh network + AX.25 amateur radio protocol for tcp/ip communication for anything from shortwave to AUX cables to LAN. Created a satellite network prototype with it. Connected to German internet over shortwave from turkey (~3500km) w/ 9600kB. Wrote quite a lot of documentation on setting up the eoax linux kernel module (the "bridge" between AX.25 and normal eth0, batman-adv only works this way).
Stuff like web hosting, ssh, ftp, scp & even X11-window-forwarding works, even though it's quite slow. I plan on creating an "automatic" iface switcher so that it would be possible to just switch between wlo, bluetooth etc.
Oh and if you want a PWA w/ VueJS as an application I could help w/ that
Where can one begin to learn about this?
is this work of yours published anywhere?
Do you have a GitHub?
Anyone worked on LoRa projects before? What was your experience of the capabilities?
I have been following the movement for quite a while now. But haven't worked with the tech yet. I do have a contribution thou, there is a web-bluetooth API that allows you to connect from a website to a bluetooth device. Instead of developing a mobile app + desktop, you could develop a single Progressive Web APP that works on all clients and allows for easy modification, updating and since it's on the web it is accessible to more users and developers.
Something else that would be needed in the software end is a protocol to allow the messages to target gateways or users. WebRTC could be used as a transport protocol over the internet to enhance a distributed infrastructure. WebRTC could also be used to reduce latency of the messages, the app could upload which nodes it is in contact with effectively reducing the amount of hops a message will theoretically have. You should setup a forum or a Discord so we can all bounce ideas from each other.
You should check out a channel called Andreas spiess
Maybe also consider the ESP32 instead of RpiZeroW? It's cheaper and has enough power to drive the same functionality. Also boots instantly.
i haven't really worked on anything with lora but last year i did go to the things network where they explained a thing or two about lora and from what i understand it's aimed at very little packets of data only for sensors so sending messages might be pushing it a little but it's worth a try
This is a great idea with good potential. *Mesh boxes* are awesome !
When we can at least have enough bandwidth for audio messages, or images, then people would use it for messaging.
If we make it under 50 USD, then the underdeveloped places around the world will buy it ! Even people in developed places would buy it, as long as it's as simple as putting it close to the window, where the sun shines.
Setting up a good colab on Github, and making prototypes is the good step forward form here. Universities and Fab Labs would build the prototypes. Some students would even apply and get a research grant to build one, if the design and software is doable in the 6 month time.
I feel like you should create a discord server for all NODE related things, so we can all discuss ideas and make things happen faster.
Jack R what is a discord server ?
Its like a community server where people can talk in separate channels (Text and voice) and users can be assigned roles. Have a google
Or slack
slack is weird but thats my opinion
Or an IRC channel.
My favorite thing about node is that in one video there is so much more thought and planing in one video then there is in 1/2 of kick starter projects.
good idea! but signal range will drain battery pretty quick.
also - cryptography? waterproof? empty frequencies? few more obstacles will rise along the way
yeah i was wondering what frequency it would be on
i imagine it would probably be on the MURS radio frequency so that the user didn't need a amateur radio license to use it legally which would limit range to about 10 miles in the very best of conditions, the range problem could be solved by the use of repeaters.
in the U.S the FCC gets butt hurt if you broadcast encrypted messages. to make matters worse the cucks with radio licenses like to track down and report people broadcasting illegal transmissions
personally i like where this project is going but i would find it much more interesting if instead of having the antenna connected directly to this device if it took input from your phone and then allowed you to connect to any radio you wanted that way you could choose any frequency and power output you wanted, the benefit being if you want to do local you could dial down the power and broadcast on VHF/UHF for 0-20 miles or on the other end with HF communicate with people in other continents
Two years late, but he was talking about LoRa, which has been shown to be super low power, despite it's huge range.
Water proofing is huge for me. 🤣
I think adding USB tethering to the device would be a more universal option than bluetooth. Bluetooth should still be used, but on devices without bluetooth, usb teather should be an option. I think it possible with the current hardware, but just an idea.
Yes
This would require usb OTG, which all Android phones should be compatible with, but unfortunately are not. Bluetooth is probably a more universal and reliable standard in this case
it should atleast be an option. just have the ability to run an adapter for type c, otg and whatever else could be utilized
Also this could make it a bit faster, despite being less portable.
The issue with this (at least in my opinion) is that LRaWAN is quite slow. Having such a device as a normal gateway has the potential to spam the entire network assuming the broadcast behaviour of a normal Laptop / Phone.
I like the idéa, but I think the ESP32 might be a good alternative to a full Linux system. They're smaller and cheaper. There even are boards on eBay with ESP32 + SX1278 + OLED + USB + LiPo support for 15USD... sounds like a good dev platform to me.
For people that doesn't live in big cities cheaper nodes would be useful as you might need several to find someone to link up to and making them weather proof + solar charging would also be great if you need to put them outside.
Either way I think it would be greater to have an app and protocols that is hardware agnostic to allow users to implement it with different hardware. someone might want to make that standalone terminal, someone might want to make one with a smaller micro controller etc.
I might be interested in helping.
On AliExpress they have fully blown boards for 30 USD, just search for t band esp
I am an Android Developer and an Engineering Student I think this idea is amazing if messaging is to be used the messages can be encrypted using a public key that can be accessed from a blockchain based contact list , and when the message is broadcasted and it reaches the node it will check whether the message can be decrypted by him or not and if it cant be decrypted it will transmit it and the process will continue until the message is reached .
and For the name for this Device better if it is DNRMS (Decentralized Node Based Radio Messaging System).
Additionally, you have to worry about the message delivery from multiple routes. For broadcasting, we should implement a dns-style pathfinding algorithm that will query surrounding nodes for a recipient and return the shortest route to avoid multiple delivery and ensure the quickest transfer rate
Unfortunately adding block chain to everything is a huge trend right now but it isn't exactly feasible given the restrictions of such a network. I agree that it would probably help the project if we had unlimited bandwidth, but there's a reason we don't mine crypto currency with our phones, which are many times more powerful than the kind of device we'd be designing
i have to agree with other people in the comments blockchaining everything is SO unnecessary. sorry man we dont need blockchain to do this just a simple p2p message application like TOX. which utilizes DHT for its contact sharing. just to add a little bit. there is file sharing that uses blockchain which is totally unnecessary and a alternative works just as well without it.
Collin Clark Not all cryptocurrencies have to be mined in the way you are describing (proof of work). Blockchain could be used as an incentive layer, so people who use the network pay to send messages, but also get payed to relay other people's messages.
+iSasFTW
And what happens to end-nodes, that can't relay messages because of near-complete isolation? And what about Isolated networks that can't synchronize?
There are several solutions like this already. GoTenna & beartooth are but some. and of course there's apps that create their own "mesh network" using bluetooth which work especially well in a school or large gatherings. I love your ideas my friend. This is just one that has a lot of competition. So if you were the one that succeeded you'd have left a LOT of others dead in their very well funded ways.
these are open sourced or commercial products?
You're on to something. I came across Power Talkie 2 days ago and I loved the concept as I'm an outdoorsman and I love having a backup in certain situations. I found that product too pricey and thought to myself, I work in a battery store where I have to do minor electronics work on a regular basis but I have little knowledge without an assembly plan or an existing product to copy, but would love to build a couple if not more.
I looked at other options like the Gotenna, Gotoky, Sonnet, and Go GPS which all to basically the same thing. They are a Bluetooth device to connect to with your phone, to make a mesh network without the requirement of a telecom tower. They can send text messages, pictures, small voice messages, radio communications and GPS locations by the reach of an RF signal.
A solar panel is a good idea to a point. All batteries have a shelf life and a limit of charge cycles. If you don't have a way to say it is okay to charge then you are waisting charge cycles on the battery. It would have to be programmed as such. the antenna should be a standard removable one from an RF radio to attach bigger ones at the user's discretion. Batteries should be a removable lithium-Ion battery for easy change when the battery has reached the end of its life. It should be water-resistant or maybe waterproof. It should also be small and light. Some have a USB port to charge other devices.
The app is another big part. It has to be user-friendly, securely encrypted,, availability to android and IOS, and take minimal space and resources. If someone can come up with a plan to assemble this and another to program the phone app and the device firmware with instructions on how to install them.
I'm all ears for testing and trying prototypes as long as they don't break the bank. I will give a full unbiased test and opinion. Feel free to message me if you have a design and I'll give it a whirl in some of the least wirelessly serviced places in Eastern Canada.
sounds really cool. i wouldn't be much help, but i support it wholeheartedly, and would buy one if it were decently cheap, due to a low financial situation
Quick design tip, maybe have a solar panel on both sides so that you wouldn't have to worry about it's orientation once you clip it onto a backpack. This could also trickle charge it to keep it charged if you are constantly hiking or outdoors.
that would leave it without the main component a screen.
All these project sound like really good ideas. I would suggest including battery monitor/eliminator and trickle charge circuits. That way, if you have it plugged up to AC power to charge, it will charge until the battery is at capacity, then the eliminator circuit will kick in and power the device while monitoring and trickle charging the battery as needed until the line AC is removed, at which point the battery takes over and the solar charger is switched into function.
I followed you because you have genius ideas that I always wanted to materialize, I am with you on this one as I already got the beartooth which is closed source and resemble what you imagine so it can be done, hopefully greed does not block others from helping in making this happen.
I had the same idea 2yrs ago for my graduation project but abandoned it..sob* I consulted a professional in the telecoms industry and he made me think I was living in my own made up world😂 .I'm glad I found this channel. I think it's a brilliant idea.
I think the idea is a good one. The shortcoming is the chosen radio technology. What is needed is a 5-watt output in a reliable HAM freq. the would support long distance, fairly high-speed texting. It would make the optimum mesh network replacement for a town or prepper community to stay in touch in a grid down situation. Also, much better range if mesh networking in the woods. A 256 to 512-bit encryption feature would be optimal.
You should really make a slack group for this, I think it'd be great considering the current situation with net neutrality, I'm more a software guy but I'd love to collaborate with everyone on hardware and the rest of the software, LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN!
Very good concept. I was thinking that with the US canning Net Neutrality a sort of "pirate internet" could develop in response. I see mesh networks, peer-to-peer protocols and decentralisation as the future. We now live in a time where the individual has access to some pretty amazing technology - they're just completely unaware of it.
I'd go even more ambitious than sending small packets of data for IMs or Bitcoin transactions. I know that LoRa doesn't have the bandwidth for anything larger than that but I'm sure there's alternatives that do. Imagine a completely decentralised internet with complete independence from ISPs. It's a flight of fancy but I think it's important and is something we should strive for.
RPi is too power hungry. ESP32 rev 1 will be better choice.
Was also my first thought!
i concur preferably use ESP32/8266
Meshtastic
Yes but you know the Internet speed of a esp8266
@@truestopguardatruestop164 LoRa is even slower than the esp board's networking, so that would be the bottleneck, not the esp
Not encrypted, but we Ham Radio operators already do a lot of this. Look at WINLINK it allows for easy email like interface. Others available in other protocols such as Fusion, DMR, D-STAR, and packet.
It would be best to create a basic functionality (or multiple) that every device needs. This basic functionality could be expanded with a battery pack, solar, GPS or other stuff. With multiple functionalities i mean that you could make a repeater only device, a device that's connected via Bluetooth, a device that's part of a LAN...
Check out opengarden. They have an SDK called MeshKit that can be used to build p2p networks and they already have an app called FireChat that uses it. Adding a longer range radio would make it much more useable and less relyant on other users nearby.
The military has something like this when i was in the Marine Corps in the early 2,000s data packets that travel via radios, except it used postioning data instead of msgs. it was called EPLRS (EE-plars). i just googled it so at least its not secret anymore. maybe that will help flesh out your idea. it is also jam resistant.
I second the idea of a Discord server. Easy to set up for public access, with specific project developement channels.
Also, for a name: Node Over Direct Emissions, or N-O-D-E.
Mmmmmm recursive....
I actually worked on a similar project for my design class my junior year. It was a device to act as a mini cell tower that connects via satelite for natural disasters. What i learned was that connection reliability and usability were a must. If you can do this with no app required that would be awesome. Research the Vodafone instant network from the vodafone foundation for more inspiration. Cant wait to see how this will turn out!!!!!
The idea of an off-grid mesh network like this is amazing. Would be great if it could be bundled into a solar powered box-on-a-pole setup. With transfer rates so extremely low I wonder how much use you'd be able to get out of a few of these spread across a small suburb? NODE-NET has a cool ring to it.
All these new projects are for the people! Love it.
My wife's son agrees that this is a really good idea! As a delegate of the Reddit community I'm honored to witness the future right here.
Sorry hate double posting comments, but to address both power capacity and the "emergency" power requirements, I've often wondered why more projects don't use "standard" vape batteries like the 18650 or newer 21700, I think the option for replaceable batteries is underrated
I Love the Idea but it has to be kept at a lower price so you could deploy some around If they are Outdoor capable
for example use a microbit as they are just 16$, a C.H.I.P for just 4 bucks or a VoCore, with it being the smartest one for 20
yeah, honestly the raspberry pi is probably a bit overkill. I'd be for the chip but they're always out of stock...
Nick Hechtel what about the Orange Pi Zero? They have blue tooth and can be bought in any quantity (unlike the raspi0) and the H2 runs $6.99US. It might be bulkier vertically than the Raspi0, but that can be quickly fixed with some simple component removal if you really want to save space. Is there a cheaper option?
I love this idea.
I would build a device like that, if there was a mesh in my region.
This could be really useful for e.g. a tracker of some sort without any Cell Phone Service needed. Also a tracker with a normal zero and an Lora module would probably be cheaper than getting a sim card for a pre build one.
Ive had this exact idea and think its great, Im just not savy enough to accomplish it from scratch. I would be excited to put one of these together. If you could make them cheap enough and include the solar, you could have a whole gang of them and put them out on roofs and other inaccessible places to establish your own network over long distances like a trail of breadcrumbs.
I have an idea like this but for a decentralized forum system much like how the oldest BBS systems worked where new messages were just zipped and stored until a connection to a new computer was made, which then got added to the database to whatever they were connecting to and then zipped over there ready to do the same to any other new connections. This would allow physical travelers to physically pick up mail/messages in very remote places and then have them physically carried to the next area where they could be delivered and then at some point in time be updated for everybody.
People connected to the internet would be the 'exit' nodes, more so just nodes onto a different faster network though, and it could potentially be interfacable with most old BBS servers which are surprisingly still pretty high in numbers.
To the technicalities, my thinking was that every user gets a 256 private key and 256 bit public id (for which people can reply and message) and then each new message gets a 600 bit header which is split into: 64 bit for POSIX time (64 bit instead of 32 bit), 256 bit public id of posting user, 256 bit optional for replying id, and 4 bits reserved for flags such as important, abuse, spam, and blocked, which servers/users could set up on their own to do what they see fit with the message (whether to save it, delete it, automatically add a user id to a blocklist etc) and then another 16 bits reserved for a post category with 4 bits reserved for later use. The body is then made up of a dynamic amount of text which is padded with 0's to 4,000 bits. The entire message is then run-length compressed and ready to be delivered.
Now to the specs of the machine, storage would pretty much be the main issue as this is meant to passively transfer files at the expense of time since processing power/energy efficiency should be hugely optimized in order to get the most out of the machine. A 32 GB SD card, or something akin to it, should be enough since it could store over 100k 1,000 character long (4,000 bytes UTF-32 completely random data in a worst case scenario) along with all the user and public ids (73 bytes for 584 bits). Extra space can be seeded out by deleting the oldest messages, except those marked important, or compressed, since UTF-32 is very very compressible, at the expense of longer transfer speeds to new connections because of uncompression and transfer time.
Onto the pragmatics of the situation, I am thinking of just doing a completely flat file database but am very open to suggestions on a different plan.A user is only going to be one per machine as having multiple users on a single machine makes no sense, unless accessing from a 'exit' node on the web in which webserver owners can create their own interface to user IDs. The posts would just be sorted by their category and respective time of posting. Clashing post ids will be left up to the server/user owner to decide to do with what to do them (either do them manually, automatically delete or overwrite the old, etc). Users can then flag posts how they see fit which would carry with a post if it is federated then to another server. Users can also unflag posts that were previously flagged as well, along with the category IDs which will then make this whole forum system completely democratic in its inception. Only a private ID verified against a public ID can post a message as that public ID for that generalized key-pair security that's become common nowadays.
I don't really have any plans to encrypt it because there's really just no need, the only thing being transferred between users/servers are packaged messages which would be publicly available anyways, all security is handled on the device to make the whole design fully offline.
I don't know enough about radiology as I'm more of a programmer but I think having a global, carry-able decentralized forum system seems like a very cool idea and if anyone can help me carry out this little idea of mine out into the real world I would be much grateful :D
You're so smart and have the best ideas. I look forward to all of your videos.
This is looking like the right time to do something like this. There are other products out there, but we have huge respect for your engineering capabilities and the elegance of your designs.
I like the idea, I had one similar a time ago but didn't do anything. One thing to consider is the range of frecuencies the devices are going to work in order to not interfere with other stuff. Another thing to consider is the antena; if is small so the range so the capability to repeat messages would be needed.
The idea I had was to comunicate outcasted towns with a similar device (other use case).
Sounds like a great idea! Even my keyboard wants me to install an app; so if it's possible to communicate without huge companies nosing in, I'm all for it.
Yes! I really like this. Unfortunately I'm not capable of helping, but I would really like to use this device.
What ended up being the result of this project? I’m extremely interested!
th-cam.com/video/TY6m6fS8bxU/w-d-xo.html Not sure if it's related but this is *very* similar
I think this is an absolutely fantastic idea and would love to see it come to fruition.
I think it is a wonderful idea. I am uncomfortable depending on external services to transmit data, partially for privacy, but more importantly for events that would knock out communications (solar storms).
I think having an emergency button would be beneficial. The bluetooth idea is excellent, but if your phone/computer is broken or missing then having the little device that connects to others will be made useless. With the button, you can send out a distress signal coupled with your GPS. Optionally the button instead sends morsecode beeps for computer-less messaging. The back of the housing has an embossed morsecode chart and maybe some other helpful information.
My name suggestion would be TROI: Telecommunications over Radio Opensource Interface, alluding to Star Trek Counselor Troi's telepathic abilities.
This is what I'm hoping to find for Search and Rescue use. Where I volunteer, there is a very minimal chance of cell phone communication (15%), moderate to good satellite phone communication (80% but cost ineffective), and radios work when someone relays but not often to extended personnel. Part of my hope is to find a "Drop off" option in which multiple units can be dropped at key points to act as part of the relay of the mesh network. If the drop off option was a viable one, caves could carry coms too.
I'm really hopeful that this has been developed more. I'm going to see if your channel offers some updates but wanted to leave a comment first.
I think it would be great. I like the idea of gotenna's device, but if I'm already carrying around an SDR, the ability to use it to say, tune in to emergency stations or communicate on CB with the proper antennae would be cool. That way you can potentially rescue/be rescued by someone who didn't happen to also buy into the same system
How fast could this network potentially be then? Could it be used to load simple websites?
EpicLPer I think we're talking hunders of bits a second
it's lora it's main use is sensors which is only a few bits so depending on the size of the site expect from a few weeks to a few years of waiting
Should be totally doable so long as you're keeping it simple staticish pages with no multimedia.
Yeah the chips are 300kbps from what I've seen
it could depend on how many peers you are connected to
I think this is a great idea! I think that you should make a extra page on your website that has a forum for this. We could call it a Of-grid Emergency Antenna (O.E. Antenna).
Serious question: what would you do if approached by the FBI/CIA and commanded to either program or build them a backdoor (a la Lavabit)? If it hasn't happened yet, it probably will, at least if production gets off the ground
Cinnamon it’s open source, if such a vulnerability was baked in, other developers would be able to see it
Has a community group been created for this? I'm interested in learning more.
Here are some Ideas of my own:
- use 433MHz frequency band for even higher range
- App Development in QT because it provides built-in support for most platforms (excluding windows) doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtbluetooth-index.html
- maybe even go more barebone without linux and a low-power arm-microprocessor
- i think really important is security and how to encrypt/secure messages between devices (e.g. pgp)
Best idea I heard this year, reminds me of ProxyGambit/Ham + Gotenna. But there is ServalMeshnet that also looks similar. Great. Hope U build this, and others catch on and test/improve it.
Not sure if you're still working on this. I think it might be worth consdering replacing the Pi Zero W with something containing an nRF52840 or similar chip. Those have built-in 2.4GHz communication (BLE for example), and consume a lot less power than the pi.
They're used everywhere, from smart radiator thermostats (Tado) to the Apple AirTag. There is a very mature SDK, even including a bootloader that allows upgrades over Bluetooth.
man this idea is fantastic, i'd be glad to see it widely available
Coming back to this after Meshtastic has become *slightly* more adopted feels good
I really love this idea, I think the best way to do this is go through Kickstarter and everyone who backs it gets one and send them out across the country and possibly place them in places in cities to increase the range
I love this idea! I'm also not sure how well it would work but like you said, it would be great to find out. Count me in!
You could try to kickstart it just purely for marketing and to guarantee getting it in the hands of a lot of people prior to it dropping to give it a better shot of functioning right off the bat
I was interested in putting this together for a while, but there are legality issues around the frequencies used, which would bring things into scrutiny. Still, cool idea!
All the best with this project. I'd like to be involved to some extent, but my lack of useful experience would probably only set things back. Definitely invested in the idea!
I'm super late on this, but you should check out the Fognet project on IOTA. They are working on developing a Bluetooth mesh network protocal that seems similar. LoRa would make that project much more interesting.
I fancy the idea of having a mesh network at your fingertips whenever you click that device in action. No cell network fees, long range... It could work! I would certainly use it, but not with the bluetooth pairing mode... It's certainly a good feature, but with a low power LCD a small keyboard and some encryption you could have a text based walkie-talkie, and that's for me its selling point.
Has this actually gone anywhere? This sounds really cool and useful. If anyone knows please let me know!
th-cam.com/video/TY6m6fS8bxU/w-d-xo.html Not sure if it's related but this is *very* similar
I love this idea, and would happily build and attach one to my backpack. Heck, I'd leave them in places with good sunlight access and a large broadcast footprint to function as unattended repeater nodes. My only concern would be how to get enough of them out there to really work. It seems like the biggest challenge isn't technical, but just achieving critical mass.
Random thought, if you make the device transmit a unique identifier then you could set it up so that it has a search function detecting all nearby devices, meaning that you can choose to pair with any connection you can find and it would save them in a contact list this way you could talk to multiple people as if it was simple text messaging app. The other person would have to accept you first though.
If you plan on building devices like this dont forget to check Amateur Radio regulations and talk to local clubs. Most likely you will encounter people who have already worked with stuff like this and they can provide plenty of insight. I'll definitely play around with the hardware side of this, not the most capable though when it comes to the software.
With such a device you strongly need to have the confirmation of delivery, because what if recipient's device is off or out of even that network coverage? Also, it might be useful to store data on the device as the Bluetooth could be disconnected, so it's better to store messages locally before sending them on a phone/PC
I may be a bit late to the party, but the Ham Radio community already does something like this on a massive scale. I've got Raspberry-Pi running a node on my desk right now. It's called D-star. There are a couple of other protocols too.
I'd definitely build one then or even multiple ones if they have a solar panel and put them somewhere around here in town tho I guess nobody would ever use them here lol
If it's running on a Pi, that opens up loads of customization possibilities from the software side. There could be an app developed to expose a lot of data from the user's device to be sent over the connection, and then the mesh node could also be used as any kind of wearable tracker, but where the user's data is kept completely under their control.
a mesh network over radio waves sounds fantastic, but I wonder if too many nodes close to each other may cause interference.
for easy communication, I would assign each of the devices a random uuid when first registering, hoping it's not taken already. when sending a message, you specify the receiver by his uuid, and broadcast the signal. each of those devices could "forward" every message just once, hoping that it'll reach it's destination. of course, you'll need encryption with private and public keys and all that stuff.
on the app side, I'd go for Java, since it's cross-platform for linux and windows PCs and Android phones and tablets. sorry, apple users!
and here's one name suggestion: ALOCS. this is easy to say, and stands for anonymous long-range off-grid communication system.
I think other people will come up with better abbreviations.
edit: I'd save a chat history and all of the data exclusively on the pi, so any device can load it over Bluetooth. the phone/laptop device sync should be relatively easy, but I really don't know about the radio side stuff
Sounds good
I don't know that I could help develop it, but if you were to make one I would totally join up
We really need a discord server / slack workspace / IRC channel / Matrix for this
Did you ever do anything more with this? I've recently been looking into the gotenna capabilities, because I wanted to make a longer range piratebox device.
I imagine that each device will have about 10 or so short-wave "stations" which it will broadcast "packets". This means the device can broadcast multiple packets at the same time. Each device will then re-broadcast the same packet once. The device will store a secure hash of the packet, as to not broadcast the same packet twice.
Each packet will be signed with a private key, and encrypted with the receiver's public key. The packet will be marked with both.
The short-wave radio design will allow for a mesh network that has long-distance connections, and few hops.
Other rules like packet size and packet order will have to be set. Also, a protocol for blockchain transactions and blocks will have to be made so that it works in a more broadcast style, rather than a direct connection.
DNS will also be an issue, maybe it should be just kept on the user's device or receiver?
Yahhhhhh. I wanted to make it for a long time.
Sounds like an awesome idea!
Is LoRa really able to transmit that amount of data? From what I understand it's designed to send sensor readings from IoT devices, with a intervals of a few minutes between messages (which would not be good for chatting). Is there an alternative to LoRa that could potentially send larger amounts of data over at least a few kilometres?
LoRa has a couple different operating modes, but none really suitable to this. End devices talk to gateways, and while gateways can forward messages to other gateways, the gateways cost quite a bit more than the hats.
Love it. It makes me think of a walkie talkie but with smartphones
I'd recommend making a standalone version that can connect to a display and keyboard and a larger network-radius-extender that could be connected to an antenna and with a larger solar panel. I also noticed the Rpi0 based Zero-Phone making it's rounds recently, a friend of mine built his own, so implementing this into that would be amazing
This would be an amazing add on to the zero phone, and completely with in its spirit!
Dont. Can u please putdown the link i am excited to see it
you could always just use the RPI with an hdmi screen
I've always considered doing a diy sat phone to cut down the prices compared to how astromical the cost of the parts were, I imagine tying this into that sort of arrangement would be amazing :)
Yes! Using LoRa at 443MHz would be great, I got some esp32 and 433MHz lora. It would be great also to add a display so you can see messages.
I remember you made a video about making an access point inside of a journal/notebook. I can't find it now, did you remove it? I'd just like to find what router you used.
I like the entire idea, but from the video i found a problem with it, lets consider that A has to message C and C is quite far away and the message has to be relayed from B's device and when A presses SEND & at the same time B switches off his device a soon as he recieved it. The message would be stuck in between A & B, from A side it would be considered to be Delivered but C would never recive it in time.
I think this is a great idea, nobody is gonna spend the money on a gotenna especially since not a lot of people know about it. Name one person who doesn’t know what a raspberry pi is and who doesn’t own one, I would definitely make this and Carry it with me everywhere I went! We definitely need a discord for this!! We could all work together to make irb
As far as I know, LoRa protocol does not support mesh topology. The protocol would be completely different if it did, and require different approaches for network discovery, routing between nodes, adding and removing devices from networks and such. I think lora is made for gateway - client operation.
this is the most amazing and imaginative person ever
[citation needed] he's a good guy tho
Great idea! In regards to incentivizing the existence of mesh networks for data transfer I think IOTA could be quite suitable. You may join their slack channel and then ask at #projects. They have a similar project for the creation of mesh networks in and across refugee camps.
I think this is a great idea... Sounds like a great project for kickstarter or indiegogo...
Love the style of your channel
For easy connecting to a mobile phone an NFC chip would be great. It would make the usage of the device more convenient.
It is interesting idea when you also consider using the blockchain technology as well
I like it. It think tweaking the wifi + antena will be the hardest part( both selecting the best hardware and the software). It must run
open source drivers and no binary blobs.
Don`t forget about security and privacy , i see great potential for this type of communication...
This is one of the best ideas I have ever heard
We had the same idea with a friend since a long time. I think raspberry is a bit overpowered and power hungry for this device. Instead, an ESP32 could be used to process and transmit the signals (It could also go into deep sleep mode when not used). Encryption can be used to ensure the safety of the data between users and it needs some functionalities for finding the fastest route etc. 2.4 GHz channel is very crowded, so maybe using 433 Mhz transceivers is a better idea. A common messaging protocol between those devices needs to be made in order to ensure compatibility. Also, we can design some throwie type repeaters, powered only with solar and sit stationary in somewhere legal, and they should be cheap too.
Also, it needs to be foolproof against ddos type attacks. Traffic is very limited in such devices, they need to be used very smartly.
it's a mesh network. Bandwidth is limited, but a DDOS should theoretically only be capable of taking down one node, if any. Granted, if this is to be built from the ground up, that could be eliminated
I know this video is old but it think it's more important now than it ever was, I'd be happy to help in any way I could. I'm not particularly experienced or skilled but I learn fast and I'm familiar with raspberry pi.
This would actually be really useful. Hope you make it possible!
Really good project ....
Have had the same idea for quite some time. I would not go for a RPi but rather one of the smaller and cheaper ESPs or (or similar). Developing for them is not very different but it is both smaller, cheaper and more power efficient.
I could be interested in joining a project like this. I have been working with lowlevel implementations for BT/WIFI etc as a job for many years
I have been looking at this and found FCC licensing to be the hurdle for most. Radios capable of doing these sorts of things usually require HAM licenses to operate. However, there are some projects that are doing similar stuff to this but using it to transmit may run into issues.