Been looking at one of these for a while… so this gave me the ultimate decision to go with… Fox Alien, due to the availability of the extension kit. Delivery tomorrow… can’t wait!
I bought an Anolex 3030 Evo Pro, and then extended it to 3060 after considering the Genmitsu and Fox Alien options. What decided the issue for me was the all metal construction and the linear rails of the Anolex. It is a very well built quality machine. Also, they had a slew of available acessories including a 60cm extension kit, a 1.2kw VFD spindle, and a 10W laser. I bought all of these. While the Anolex will be my desktop machine, I am already planning to build a much larger garage floor 6 axis model of my own design, with a moving gantry all linear rail design employing NEMA 43 closed loop stepper motors capable of machining steel as well.
Was going for the Masuter Pro but the delivery was a lot longer than the Genmitsu, so got that one. Very happy with it as a beginner, but it's a big learning curve.
Love it. Great description. Was even started to come to the same conclusion when you began talking about speed vs power. To me that’s evidence you organized your video well. Solid teaching!
Another great review James….As you know I have the FoxAlien Masuter Pro, and one thing that annoys me with it is the messy wiring. Especially if you also use it with a laser head and you have to add the extra split power lead in the socket on top of the control box..it just looks messy not very sturdy and I find the power supply connection pulls out of it very easy, as the split cable they give you to use is to short and just dangles in the air…. Why they couldn’t add a dedicated socket for it I don’t know. Definitely room for improvement on the control box I/O layout there and better connectivity..😊
1:40 I have not used either of these, but I am pretty sure you assumed the wrong one would flex more. Yes the blue one has the router a little farther out, but if you look at its guide bar the are at least twice as far apart as the orange once, since the orange ones bars can't even been see from this angle. So the blue one has much more stability, and torch to prevent that wobble. It would have to be hanging out at least twice was far to lose that advantage.
Is one frame more stiff than the other? Especially when it comes to flexion in the Z axis? This is the question that I really came here hoping you would be able to answer.
Nice video, would have been perfect if you tried some real life benchmarking on wood to see their actual limits. Anyway, both are more than enough for a hobby or even as a helper machine in a small business. What I didn't like on the genmitsu was the Z assembly. Looks kinda weak compared to the rest of the machine. I have the masuter pro. So far it works great for me. The only downside is the sagging MDF boards. I ordered 3 20x20 profiles and bolted them as supports. Huge plus that they add the clamp for a Makita or any other 65mm router.
😮Wonderful comparison. Does the FoxAlien still have the problem of skipping steps because it is belt driven? Does the lead screw driven machine remove this problem?
Very well done comparison James. Has the spindle on the FA been upgraded? I have a 4040 and upgraded to a VFD driven 800 watt spindle. I think the belts will stretch on the FA with high acell and decll rates over time. I also feel that it's harder on the motors.
I have the Masuter Pro (got a good sale and it shipped immediately last year), but damn I wish I had that screw drive - so tired of vacuuming sawdust from the belt groove.
Usually laser of that size will have their own mounting plate and it genuinely will depend on what laser as to whether the holes align or not. However the reality is on either of these machines, it would be a fairly easy job to make your own mounting plate if it didn't fit.
absolutely brilliant James . Spot-on . As I do mostly laser work with Foxalien 4080 ( extension kit fitted ) is perfect for me . however if you are a foxalien fan you could always purchase a " foxalien Vasto " which also has lead screw and slightly more powerful drive motors .. similar to the blue one . But obviously cost a lot more money 😂😂😂
Great video. Still honing my skills with the 3018 pro, and Carveco Maker. I upgraded the spindle to 500w, and expanded the table. I'm getting some good results with topographical maps. I might skip buying one of these models, and go up a level. Thanks for all the great content!
I have to make cuts in existing enclosures (project boxes, speakers,..) so I'm looking for a CNC machine which I can place on top of the object. Horizontal CNC machining is not available at this price point. I get the impression I can do that with both, am I correct (by partially removing the bottom plates)? Or is the frame blocking bigger objects from being in reach? It is only 2mm plastic to cut so can I assume it can work if the tools are long enough?
The 4040 Pro is probably better suited to the task. You would need to lower the spindle/router down and potentially use longer bits but it should be able to do it
@@JamesDeanDesigns Many thanks. For the project boxes I can make an opening in the spoilboard, for the bigger enclosures indeed I may have to lower the spindle. Strange that I cant find videos about this very common use case.
Hi James, do you happen to know if FA will be bringing out a 4th axis rotary router module (similar to the genmitsu one with a chuck for use with a router)? All I can find on the FA website are rotary modules for laser work but none for use with a router. Great quick and concise shootout BTW, thank you.
It has not been mentioned to me yet. I think in terms of accessories like that,Foxalien and Sainsmart are trying to make sure they do different things to save clashing and ultimately making sales harder
@@JamesDeanDesigns Thanks for coming back to me James. Yeah, I can see the logic in not duplicating on the accessories to much. So that tips the scales towards the 4040 with a Makita. Already have a dedicated 40w CO², so as you point out the 4040 is more biased towards router than the FA which is aimed at giving the best of both worlds. All in all looks like I'll be heading to Sainsmart - if I can work out a way to get it squeezed into the workshop that is! Thanks again James
Out of the two, the Sainsmart 4040 Pro (blue one) will work better with metal, however if machining metal is your main goal then you'll ideally need a more rigid machine than either of these
can you upgrade the spindle on the genmitsu? i know the spindle on the fox alien can be upgraded, this maybe the feature that makes me buy the genmitsu...
@@JamesDeanDesigns man so many things to take into account…sorry for all the questions…first time buyer and I’m trying to maximize my dollar on the purchase
Please do a Genmitsu 4040-PRO vs Genmitsu PROVerXL 4030 Comparison when you get time. I know you have a separate video for that one specifically, but I really can't find a reason to buy the cheaper 4040.. Sure it has more work area by default, but the lack of expandability hurts my soul. Just kind of need pro's cons in 1 videos of those 2
They are in two different leagues so for the most part the Proverxl 4030 will win every category. Also there is the new ProverXL 4030 V2 about to be released which is even better so truthfully its not much of a comparison which is also why they are different prices
You can find all the USB files here www.foxalien.com/en-gb/blogs/news/foxalien-cnc-and-laser-machine-user-manual?fbclid=IwAR0OrjdfWDUn1TAMX3ZFHeWUFRwFUxoL_t2BszHWwV2Yv1k6xAKpgA6gHnk
In your vid I see the Sainsmart has a Makita router whereas the standard 4040 comes with a much smaller spindle. Seems this would impact the price comparison.
Like the 80w laser on the FoxAlien, the Makita is an after market addition which can also be added to the FoxAlien as well. Its probably difficult to see but in the thumbnail they both have their standard spindles fitted.
Hi, I'm brand new to this CNC stuff and have just purchased a Genmitsu 40-40 Pro. I'm having an issue and I don't even know where to begin fixing it... The X/Y 'jogging' movement is just ridiculously slow. On Easel I'll go to manually shift the spindle across its X or Y axis and while it moves, it doesn't move to the distance I set it at. If I set it at 1 inch it might physically move 1mm every time I press a directional key. It's like it's thinking that the distance it's travelling is far greated than it actually is. I set it to carve a basic design and it while it moved (very slowly) all it carved was a pointless tiny straight line. I think my hair's about to fall out I'm so frustrated 😂
So there's a lot in there and you need to narrow the issue down. Firstly, does the controller think it is moving the stepper the right distance and the motor is physically failing to perform, or is the controller doing the wrong thing. To fault find this I would say you are at the very least going to need to talk g-code directly to the controller. I have no idea how easel works but there is bound to be some console somewhere that lets you type g-code commands. If you can't find how to do that then there is always the software called "candle" that has a fairly obvious g-code console, or many others. The first thing is that in the controller it has an idea of how many steps of the motor is 1mm or 1 inch or whatever of travel. This is stored in config items $100,$101,$102 (one for each axis). In your g-code console, type "$$" and press return and you will see all the config item values printed. Look for the numbers against these 3 settings. I don't know what they should be for you - it depends on your gearing, micro-stepping etc (but I would have thought they should be set up right for what you bought). I guess about 1000 should show you some movement, but "correct" could be way more or less than that. In any case, if you try moving an axis and then doubling that setting then the axis should reliably move twice as far etc. You move axes with commands like "G1 X10 F100" which is move X axis to position 10 at a speed of 100, so you could move back and forth using that and eg "G1 X20 F100". Note there are other codes that may be confusing the issue - G20 / G21 switch between imperial and metric and G90 / G91 switch between absolute and incremental movement. If all that checks out, my next move would be to uncouple the stepper motors from the drives and see if they do something different (ie move further) - that would indicate either the mechanics is jammed or you are driving them too fast (note - if you remove a stepper from its mounting then ensure you clamp it down - they have a bigger kick than you would expect). James has done a great video on tweaking the max speeds and accelerations. It may also simply come down to the motor cables not being properly connected, so the motors move but are weak and miss steps. I'm afraid that is really just some starting points for you to start googling from - without actually seeing what you have and seeing what it is doing it is impossible to be more specific. Remember we've all been there at the foot of the mountain looking up, but it's all soluble with a bit of research and a methodical approach.
@@transientaardvark6231 Cheers for that, you were absolutely right it was an issue with the console which I seem to have solved by sending this command that I found online in a thread by someone who had a vaguely similar issue: $RST=* It was a shot in the dark but it's worked and I'm finally carving away without asking why. But nah, thanks for the response. I've saved it in a word document so I can come back to it if I have another trip up 🤜
I would prefer a screw driven machine any time over a belt driven machine, because the belt driven machine adds a lot to the needed maintenance. Belts can break and need replacement. Bad tensioned/loose belts can leads to jobs comming out with flaws or wrong due to slipping on the pulleys. On the flip side to tightly tensioned belts will reduce the lifetime of the belt, due to higher stress. Also the V-Roller on the FoxAlien will also need replacement at some point.
For me the big thing that pulls the Sainsmart ahead is the fact that you can put a much bigger piece of working material in the machine. The FoxAlien has those brackets and the box in the way.
The box can be moved out of the way. You can either undo 1 bolt and swing it out the way, or take both bolts out and move it completely but I get what you mean
@@JamesDeanDesignsI think the fact that the sainsmart runs off of ball screws and rods instead of belts and rails is a much bigger plus for the sainsmart, than that box being in the way. I was going to say it should be very easy to modify to move that box out of the way.
James, I have a question. If you can help, I would appreciate. My cnc stops and also freezes my CPU when working on metal sheet. Is it because of grounding problems?
It shouldn't be but it could be. Is it just metal that it happens on? You could potentially look to ground your machine and even ground a clamp that touches the material
I can't immediately think why grounding issues might be doing that, although grounding and RF are tricky dance partners. I'm wondering what machine and setup you have. Not having any view of what you have, my instinct is pointing towards metal chips - might they be finding a way to the controller or other bits of wiring (eg limit switches). More clues might be gained by seeing exactly what state it is in after it freezes. Are the motors still holding torque ? can you get any g-code response ? What does it take to bring it back to life - hardware reset / re-plugging the serial / power cycle ?
Hello mate, thanks for your videos! Since you are an expert, would you be so kind to help me decide? I want to get my first CNC (have a laser and 3d printer already) but I don't know wether to get the Genmitzu 4030 proverxl v2 or one of these. Thanks a lot!
The general rule of thumb is get the best you can afford so if you can afford a ProverXL v2 then I would not be looking at these. The ProverXL willl out perform these machines in nearly every aspect.
Hi James, I really love your videos. I have learned a lot just watching. Between these 2 machines, and assuming that they both are upgraded to the makita router, which one do you think does a better job milling aluminum(aluminium, haha)? I've seen your individual reviews of both machines, but if milling aluminium was the deciding factor, I wondered which you would choose. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Neither one is 100% designed for milling aluminium, but the Sainsmart 4040 Pro had the better torque for driving the spindle so that would be the one to go for
Thank you for the speedy reply! I've been trying to decide between these 2 machines for a while now, and your video was great for side by side comparison. I would mainly be doing wood projects, but there are a couple of things I want to try in aluminium( I'm getting used to saying it that way). I'm just starting your videos on using Carveco, so thankyou for those as well. Have a great evening.
Remember, folks, when it comes to motors, it's not just about the amps, it's about the torque! Amps might give you a hint, but torque is where the real power lies. So, next time you're eyeballing a motor, don't just look at the numbers on the spec sheet, feel the torque, and you'll know what that motor is really capable of!
Accuracy is a difficult one because there are so many variables. What spindle or router has been used, how much runout it has, what collets and bits, whether the machine has been calibrated, whether the machine has even been setup correctly and square. And most importantly the user. There is usually some reference to the accuracy in the full reviews but I'd say realistically with either of these machines your talking around a 0.1-0.2mm out the box, this can be lowered if you take the time to dial them in
Hello, thanks for your videos. I follow you from Gualba Barcelona. I hope you can advise me. I intend to machine aluminum and sporadically stainless steel. I intend to buy a genmitsu 4040 pro, it seems robust to me. I know that it is not the ideal type of cnc machine for my machining, but it is what I can currently acquire. What machine would you recommend? thank you so much.
The 4040 Pro will be better for machining metal than the Masuter Pro. Machining stainless will be slow and you will obviously need to upgrade from the standard 70w spindle
I have the genmitsu 4040 pro and it worked great and then one day it quit running because (msg:check limits) keeps coming on. I tried to contact Sainsmart support but you need a order number witch I don't have because I bought it from Amazon. I finally found a sainsmart support phone number but it is out of order, now all I have is a very large paper weight. I even tried to order a new motherboard but I can't even do that.
The difference is that one is build for CNC cutting, but has hardware for linear movement only (laser, 3d printer and so on), but the other one is the other way around... It's quiet weird really. I think it has to do with reaching a certain price point. Imagine the Genmitsu motors + spindle + ball screws on the Masuter and vice versa. The new Masuter would likely cost $3-400 more but it would be purpose build for actual CNC cutting and not a mashup of technologies, like they both are
That's a great video - it's really hard to choose a machine from stand-alone reviews - a comparison makes it much clearer. Myself I'd like to see one for the next price point up - what are the next levels of contenders, how do they compare and what extra do you get for your money from this level.
For anyone going weighing their options the Sainsmart pro took me much longer than what the company claims. Possible reasons- 1: First time ever assembling one, 2: I challenged myself to build it in 15min, 3: Read as I built it 4:had to disassemble and reassemble due to parts being flipped. My tip: Take your time reading and understanding the instructions, who cares about the 15 minute setup?!
Very valid point, it shouldn't be a race. I think the overall message for that one though is essentially there is less to assemble with the Sainsmart and therefore less to go wrong.
One major drawback for the Foxalien: it's electronics board is in the way if you want to do longer pieces with tiled cutting area's For instance a so called "growing scale of 6 feet"
By design, routers are not made to run for long periods of time. A real brushless vfd spindle has less runout, more torque, higher accuracy. Quieter, more power capability. Imo a spindle out beats a router any day if comparing 2 of same power. Then you get into brushed spindle vs brushless🙏 thats just my opinion though based on what ive learned. What one prefers over another is all preference😸🙏
That is a good video I could do. Thanks. In essence, a router is cheap, easy to get and easy to setup. A proper spindle usually requires a VFD to run, a little more setup time and configuration but equally they are usually more powerful, quieter and have a longer lifespan as they are brushless
Weight, not size, on the Z axis assembly is what will cause flex on the gantry. Better give that one back to SainSmart. Unless you have the weight for both assemblies? Also, lead screws are better options because belts can slip or jump off pulleys. 45 years in electrical trades experience.
7:59 says it all for me. Need to stop talking - might (annoy) upset a manufacturer. - will look elsewhere for a unbiased review. Also - did not see anything or any reference to accuracy of either machine. Surely how accurate the machine is important?
Thanks for the feedback. First, that quote isn't accurate. Also probably a little harsh as there are enough examples on my channel of me telling manufacturers what they have done wrong. And after that quote, I dont stop talking do I, its just a bit of dialogue for the video. Accuracy is a difficult one because there are so many variables. What spindle or router has been used, how much runout it has, what collets and bits, whether the machine has been calibrated, whether the machine has even been setup correctly and square. And most importantly the user. If I say I've got these machines to run with 0.01mm and others users can't match that, I then get accused of being sent better machines (which has happened) so its a no win scenario for me. There is usually some reference to the accuracy in the full reviews but I'd say realistically with either of these machines your talking around a 0.1-0.2mm out the box, this can be lowered if you take the time to dial them in
@@JamesDeanDesigns thank you for the honest reply. Yes I did get the quote wrong. But I'm not convinced it changes my view that you hold your relationship with your manufactures who send you free goods in high regard.
@@davidnelson1322 and that's ok. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I'm guessing this is probably the only video of mine you have seen. I have a great review policy in place giving me the right to openly review any machine as say what I like. I've called manufacturers out like Xtool for trying to narrate what they wanted me to say, but it sounds like your opinion is already set so very little reason in me trying to convince you otherwise.
Foxalien customer service is terrible. I asked what size material the masuter pro is able to cut through and couldn't get a straight answer after 3 days of back and forth. They also had an ad campaign with a guitar youtuber and they were trying to claim it is capable of making a guitar with the 4080 extension kit, but I don't even think a guitar body blank will fit (z height terrible). You have to turn the base upside down and elevate it and even then you can't cut all the way through. There were a lot of newbies that fell for this ad campaign and shelled out the money for the fox alien and I don't think you can actually accurately make a guitar with it! They have got to lose points for false advertising. At least sainsmart don't do that kinda crap.
a belt goes around your waist! not in a cnc ...i've never seen a Komo cnc router with belts why worry about rapids ,just pay attention to feeds and speeds
If you're watching this video and trying to put an industrial grade CNC machine into the conversion then there is little point in me trying to debate with you so I'll leave you to be 👍
@@JamesDeanDesigns wasn't trying to slight ether machine i just prefer lead or ball screws to a belt ... i have a FA laser and for the money it's great ...now which do you prefer the sain smart 6050 or the FA Vasto?
@@vinragemania9312 if I had the slightly larger Vasto (the XL) then probably that. The stepper motors I the 6050 are stronger but I felt overall the frame was probably stronger (or more stable) than the Vasto.
I do not speak Spanish so I'm not 100% how I would do this accurately 😕. I thought TH-cam automatically translated translated English subtitles I upload but I guess not. I'll look into this
Thank you for answering, you can check in your next video, if you can activate the subtitles in Spanish, before uploading the video, please, they only appear in English, on TH-cam there is a way to listen to the audio in Spanish but the subtitles must be there in Spanish
Buy the Sainsmart. Ive had both and the mausuter pro sucks with its crappy belts. Its too slow as a laser engraver and too weak as a router. Sainsmart is more robust.
Feel free to be useful and suggest another CNC for around $600 that comes largely assembled, can be up and running in under 30 minutes and will out perform these.
At the end of the day, i feel both are great options for tge absolute beginner. To me a machine is only as good as the operator, but i do prefer fox. The orange anodised aluminum is 🤌🤌🤌
Been looking at one of these for a while… so this gave me the ultimate decision to go with… Fox Alien, due to the availability of the extension kit. Delivery tomorrow… can’t wait!
I recently purchased the genmitsu and couldn't be happier.
Excellent 😁
Thanks James, exactly what I was asking for and I think your conclusion was valid.
I bought an Anolex 3030 Evo Pro, and then extended it to 3060 after considering the Genmitsu and Fox Alien options.
What decided the issue for me was the all metal construction and the linear rails of the Anolex. It is a very well built quality machine. Also, they had a slew of available acessories including a 60cm extension kit, a 1.2kw VFD spindle, and a 10W laser. I bought all of these.
While the Anolex will be my desktop machine, I am already planning to build a much larger garage floor 6 axis model of my own design, with a moving gantry all linear rail design employing NEMA 43 closed loop stepper motors capable of machining steel as well.
Was going for the Masuter Pro but the delivery was a lot longer than the Genmitsu, so got that one.
Very happy with it as a beginner, but it's a big learning curve.
Love it. Great description. Was even started to come to the same conclusion when you began talking about speed vs power. To me that’s evidence you organized your video well. Solid teaching!
Another great review James….As you know I have the FoxAlien Masuter Pro, and one thing that annoys me with it is the messy wiring. Especially if you also use it with a laser head and you have to add the extra split power lead in the socket on top of the control box..it just looks messy not very sturdy and I find the power supply connection pulls out of it very easy, as the split cable they give you to use is to short and just dangles in the air…. Why they couldn’t add a dedicated socket for it I don’t know. Definitely room for improvement on the control box I/O layout there and better connectivity..😊
Can you upgrade the nema stepper motors from 17 to 23 on the sain smart 4040?
Wonderful review/comparison of the two machines. Thank you for sharing. Everyone stay warm, safe, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia
You to Norm! Thanks for your comment 👍
1:40 I have not used either of these, but I am pretty sure you assumed the wrong one would flex more. Yes the blue one has the router a little farther out, but if you look at its guide bar the are at least twice as far apart as the orange once, since the orange ones bars can't even been see from this angle. So the blue one has much more stability, and torch to prevent that wobble. It would have to be hanging out at least twice was far to lose that advantage.
Is one frame more stiff than the other? Especially when it comes to flexion in the Z axis? This is the question that I really came here hoping you would be able to answer.
I would have like a comparison of the structure under the MDF beds/spoil boards. I understand there is flex and everything is not equal in that dept.
Does the Fox Alien control box have to be mounted on that front? Id like to tile some jobs and have material feed through
@rwes2940 that's where it's meant to sit but can be swung out of the way
Nice video, would have been perfect if you tried some real life benchmarking on wood to see their actual limits. Anyway, both are more than enough for a hobby or even as a helper machine in a small business. What I didn't like on the genmitsu was the Z assembly. Looks kinda weak compared to the rest of the machine. I have the masuter pro. So far it works great for me. The only downside is the sagging MDF boards. I ordered 3 20x20 profiles and bolted them as supports. Huge plus that they add the clamp for a Makita or any other 65mm router.
Will you do a review of the FoxAlien Black R42 Rotary Roller Kit?
😮Wonderful comparison. Does the FoxAlien still have the problem of skipping steps because it is belt driven? Does the lead screw driven machine remove this problem?
Very well done comparison James. Has the spindle on the FA been upgraded? I have a 4040 and upgraded to a VFD driven 800 watt spindle. I think the belts will stretch on the FA with high acell and decll rates over time. I also feel that it's harder on the motors.
Hi Jim could you please share the VFD and 800 watt spindle you used. And would you recommend over a router?
I have the Masuter Pro (got a good sale and it shipped immediately last year), but damn I wish I had that screw drive - so tired of vacuuming sawdust from the belt groove.
Awesome! Thank you, James. Exactly what I was hoping to see.
Hello can cut foam?
Just got the Gen-ny Reno for $339 with prime day and after 7% cash back. Can't wait to dig in.
Just found your vlogs and enjoying them. Do either of these take a true 20w laser (i.e. 4 x 5w)? or could you suggest a cnc/laser that does?
Usually laser of that size will have their own mounting plate and it genuinely will depend on what laser as to whether the holes align or not. However the reality is on either of these machines, it would be a fairly easy job to make your own mounting plate if it didn't fit.
Thanks for quick reply. I have just been watching your 20 laser tree video and think I will go with that.@@JamesDeanDesigns
Will a Rigid trim router fit in master pro?
absolutely brilliant James . Spot-on .
As I do mostly laser work with Foxalien 4080 ( extension kit fitted ) is perfect for me .
however if you are a foxalien fan you could always purchase a " foxalien Vasto " which also has lead screw and slightly more powerful drive motors .. similar to the blue one . But obviously cost a lot more money 😂😂😂
The vasto is a lot more powerful than the Sainsmart 4040 Pro, they are in different leagues but as you pointed out, also a different price range
Can you add a 4th axis to any of these CNC machines (with the intention of milling aluminium)
The Sainsmart 4040 Pro has a dedicated true 4th axis. In theory it should be able to machine aluminium as long as you can hold/support it correctly
Great video. Still honing my skills with the 3018 pro, and Carveco Maker. I upgraded the spindle to 500w, and expanded the table. I'm getting some good results with topographical maps. I might skip buying one of these models, and go up a level.
Thanks for all the great content!
General rule of thumb is buy the best you can afford. So if you can jump up a level then do so 👍
@@JamesDeanDesignsagreed sir
Thank you for the great comparison. That helps out on my decision. Alway look forward to your video.
Which router would you recommend to someone wanting to upgrade the 4040's spindle?
I have to make cuts in existing enclosures (project boxes, speakers,..) so I'm looking for a CNC machine which I can place on top of the object. Horizontal CNC machining is not available at this price point. I get the impression I can do that with both, am I correct (by partially removing the bottom plates)? Or is the frame blocking bigger objects from being in reach? It is only 2mm plastic to cut so can I assume it can work if the tools are long enough?
The 4040 Pro is probably better suited to the task. You would need to lower the spindle/router down and potentially use longer bits but it should be able to do it
@@JamesDeanDesigns Many thanks. For the project boxes I can make an opening in the spoilboard, for the bigger enclosures indeed I may have to lower the spindle. Strange that I cant find videos about this very common use case.
Hi James, do you happen to know if FA will be bringing out a 4th axis rotary router module (similar to the genmitsu one with a chuck for use with a router)? All I can find on the FA website are rotary modules for laser work but none for use with a router.
Great quick and concise shootout BTW, thank you.
It has not been mentioned to me yet. I think in terms of accessories like that,Foxalien and Sainsmart are trying to make sure they do different things to save clashing and ultimately making sales harder
@@JamesDeanDesigns Thanks for coming back to me James. Yeah, I can see the logic in not duplicating on the accessories to much. So that tips the scales towards the 4040 with a Makita. Already have a dedicated 40w CO², so as you point out the 4040 is more biased towards router than the FA which is aimed at giving the best of both worlds. All in all looks like I'll be heading to Sainsmart - if I can work out a way to get it squeezed into the workshop that is!
Thanks again James
Thanks James. Great review. Can you do a review on the WORKBEE CNC if possible.
Perhaps. I was speaking to Ooznest last year but my work shop is just so small. I do know the workbees are good machines though
I’m someone who wants to take up CNC to take up belt making, are either good for cutting Zinc or Brass??
Out of the two, the Sainsmart 4040 Pro (blue one) will work better with metal, however if machining metal is your main goal then you'll ideally need a more rigid machine than either of these
@@JamesDeanDesigns what would you recommend for a beginner that wants to do metal work?
can you tell me how customer service is, I heard you say 5 star but how? phone or email and how quick do they respond
can you upgrade the spindle on the genmitsu? i know the spindle on the fox alien can be upgraded, this maybe the feature that makes me buy the genmitsu...
Yes, the only difference is the Masuter Pro comes with a 65mm holder, where as the Genmitsu has to be purchased separately for about $30
@@JamesDeanDesigns man so many things to take into account…sorry for all the questions…first time buyer and I’m trying to maximize my dollar on the purchase
@@HyPex808-2 better to ask questions than regret the decision later 👍
Please do a Genmitsu 4040-PRO vs Genmitsu PROVerXL 4030 Comparison when you get time.
I know you have a separate video for that one specifically, but I really can't find a reason to buy the cheaper 4040.. Sure it has more work area by default, but the lack of expandability hurts my soul. Just kind of need pro's cons in 1 videos of those 2
They are in two different leagues so for the most part the Proverxl 4030 will win every category. Also there is the new ProverXL 4030 V2 about to be released which is even better so truthfully its not much of a comparison which is also why they are different prices
I bought the fox alien back in December and it came with corrupted software and I haven't been able to get it to work.
You can find all the USB files here
www.foxalien.com/en-gb/blogs/news/foxalien-cnc-and-laser-machine-user-manual?fbclid=IwAR0OrjdfWDUn1TAMX3ZFHeWUFRwFUxoL_t2BszHWwV2Yv1k6xAKpgA6gHnk
In your vid I see the Sainsmart has a Makita router whereas the standard 4040 comes with a much smaller spindle. Seems this would impact the price comparison.
Like the 80w laser on the FoxAlien, the Makita is an after market addition which can also be added to the FoxAlien as well. Its probably difficult to see but in the thumbnail they both have their standard spindles fitted.
Hi, I'm brand new to this CNC stuff and have just purchased a Genmitsu 40-40 Pro. I'm having an issue and I don't even know where to begin fixing it... The X/Y 'jogging' movement is just ridiculously slow. On Easel I'll go to manually shift the spindle across its X or Y axis and while it moves, it doesn't move to the distance I set it at. If I set it at 1 inch it might physically move 1mm every time I press a directional key. It's like it's thinking that the distance it's travelling is far greated than it actually is. I set it to carve a basic design and it while it moved (very slowly) all it carved was a pointless tiny straight line. I think my hair's about to fall out I'm so frustrated 😂
So there's a lot in there and you need to narrow the issue down. Firstly, does the controller think it is moving the stepper the right distance and the motor is physically failing to perform, or is the controller doing the wrong thing. To fault find this I would say you are at the very least going to need to talk g-code directly to the controller. I have no idea how easel works but there is bound to be some console somewhere that lets you type g-code commands. If you can't find how to do that then there is always the software called "candle" that has a fairly obvious g-code console, or many others. The first thing is that in the controller it has an idea of how many steps of the motor is 1mm or 1 inch or whatever of travel. This is stored in config items $100,$101,$102 (one for each axis). In your g-code console, type "$$" and press return and you will see all the config item values printed. Look for the numbers against these 3 settings. I don't know what they should be for you - it depends on your gearing, micro-stepping etc (but I would have thought they should be set up right for what you bought). I guess about 1000 should show you some movement, but "correct" could be way more or less than that. In any case, if you try moving an axis and then doubling that setting then the axis should reliably move twice as far etc. You move axes with commands like "G1 X10 F100" which is move X axis to position 10 at a speed of 100, so you could move back and forth using that and eg "G1 X20 F100". Note there are other codes that may be confusing the issue - G20 / G21 switch between imperial and metric and G90 / G91 switch between absolute and incremental movement. If all that checks out, my next move would be to uncouple the stepper motors from the drives and see if they do something different (ie move further) - that would indicate either the mechanics is jammed or you are driving them too fast (note - if you remove a stepper from its mounting then ensure you clamp it down - they have a bigger kick than you would expect). James has done a great video on tweaking the max speeds and accelerations. It may also simply come down to the motor cables not being properly connected, so the motors move but are weak and miss steps. I'm afraid that is really just some starting points for you to start googling from - without actually seeing what you have and seeing what it is doing it is impossible to be more specific. Remember we've all been there at the foot of the mountain looking up, but it's all soluble with a bit of research and a methodical approach.
@@transientaardvark6231 Cheers for that, you were absolutely right it was an issue with the console which I seem to have solved by sending this command that I found online in a thread by someone who had a vaguely similar issue:
$RST=*
It was a shot in the dark but it's worked and I'm finally carving away without asking why. But nah, thanks for the response. I've saved it in a word document so I can come back to it if I have another trip up 🤜
You said the Fox Alien pulled harder but the picture or portion of the video was showing the SainSmart CNC.
No, the Sainsmart has higher torque lower acceleration. The FoxAlien has higher acceleration but lower torque
He said Fox Alien by mistake. I watched that bit twice to check.
I would prefer a screw driven machine any time over a belt driven machine, because the belt driven machine adds a lot to the needed maintenance.
Belts can break and need replacement.
Bad tensioned/loose belts can leads to jobs comming out with flaws or wrong due to slipping on the pulleys.
On the flip side to tightly tensioned belts will reduce the lifetime of the belt, due to higher stress.
Also the V-Roller on the FoxAlien will also need replacement at some point.
Thank you for the excellent video! Does anyone have the FoxAlien Masuter Pro and if they do what do they think of it please? Thank you
For me the big thing that pulls the Sainsmart ahead is the fact that you can put a much bigger piece of working material in the machine. The FoxAlien has those brackets and the box in the way.
The box can be moved out of the way. You can either undo 1 bolt and swing it out the way, or take both bolts out and move it completely but I get what you mean
@@JamesDeanDesignsI think the fact that the sainsmart runs off of ball screws and rods instead of belts and rails is a much bigger plus for the sainsmart, than that box being in the way. I was going to say it should be very easy to modify to move that box out of the way.
Move the box. Wow
Thanks James, have now chosen and committed the FoX 4040 pro is on its way.. your videos are on repeat 😂
James, I have a question. If you can help, I would appreciate. My cnc stops and also freezes my CPU when working on metal sheet. Is it because of grounding problems?
It shouldn't be but it could be. Is it just metal that it happens on? You could potentially look to ground your machine and even ground a clamp that touches the material
@@JamesDeanDesigns yes, thank you, it happens only when I work on metal sheet
I can't immediately think why grounding issues might be doing that, although grounding and RF are tricky dance partners. I'm wondering what machine and setup you have. Not having any view of what you have, my instinct is pointing towards metal chips - might they be finding a way to the controller or other bits of wiring (eg limit switches). More clues might be gained by seeing exactly what state it is in after it freezes. Are the motors still holding torque ? can you get any g-code response ? What does it take to bring it back to life - hardware reset / re-plugging the serial / power cycle ?
@@transientaardvark6231 I`ll make a video of it send it to you.
I’m leaning toward the Sainsmart, but I’d like the extended rails. I still haven’t heard anything about a plan for release. Have you?
Great comparison video. Thanks for sharing.
Hello mate, thanks for your videos! Since you are an expert, would you be so kind to help me decide? I want to get my first CNC (have a laser and 3d printer already) but I don't know wether to get the Genmitzu 4030 proverxl v2 or one of these. Thanks a lot!
The general rule of thumb is get the best you can afford so if you can afford a ProverXL v2 then I would not be looking at these. The ProverXL willl out perform these machines in nearly every aspect.
Thanks a lot @@JamesDeanDesigns
Hi James, I really love your videos. I have learned a lot just watching. Between these 2 machines, and assuming that they both are upgraded to the makita router, which one do you think does a better job milling aluminum(aluminium, haha)? I've seen your individual reviews of both machines, but if milling aluminium was the deciding factor, I wondered which you would choose. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Neither one is 100% designed for milling aluminium, but the Sainsmart 4040 Pro had the better torque for driving the spindle so that would be the one to go for
Thank you for the speedy reply! I've been trying to decide between these 2 machines for a while now, and your video was great for side by side comparison. I would mainly be doing wood projects, but there are a couple of things I want to try in aluminium( I'm getting used to saying it that way). I'm just starting your videos on using Carveco, so thankyou for those as well. Have a great evening.
I actually bought the Sainsmart based off of this video. Thank you sir.
How do you like the machine?
I have been waiting for this comparison. I chose the FA because of a holiday sale. It has worked perfectly.
That's good to hear. Glad you're enjoying it
This was really helpful, thank you 😊👍🏼
Remember, folks, when it comes to motors, it's not just about the amps, it's about the torque! Amps might give you a hint, but torque is where the real power lies. So, next time you're eyeballing a motor, don't just look at the numbers on the spec sheet, feel the torque, and you'll know what that motor is really capable of!
How about accuracy?
Accuracy is a difficult one because there are so many variables. What spindle or router has been used, how much runout it has, what collets and bits, whether the machine has been calibrated, whether the machine has even been setup correctly and square. And most importantly the user. There is usually some reference to the accuracy in the full reviews but I'd say realistically with either of these machines your talking around a 0.1-0.2mm out the box, this can be lowered if you take the time to dial them in
@@JamesDeanDesigns always great and concise explanations. Thank you for your insights and great videos
Great video. My concern with the FoxAlien is the controller setting in front of the work area. How do you do long pieces with that in the way?
It can be unbolted on one side and swung out the way 👍
I unbolted it completely and screwed it on further from the bed
Hello, thanks for your videos. I follow you from Gualba Barcelona. I hope you can advise me. I intend to machine aluminum and sporadically stainless steel. I intend to buy a genmitsu 4040 pro, it seems robust to me. I know that it is not the ideal type of cnc machine for my machining, but it is what I can currently acquire. What machine would you recommend? thank you so much.
The 4040 Pro will be better for machining metal than the Masuter Pro. Machining stainless will be slow and you will obviously need to upgrade from the standard 70w spindle
Thanks for your amability.
I have the genmitsu 4040 pro and it worked great and then one day it quit running because (msg:check limits) keeps coming on. I tried to contact Sainsmart support but you need a order number witch I don't have because I bought it from Amazon. I finally found a sainsmart support phone number but it is out of order, now all I have is a very large paper weight. I even tried to order a new motherboard but I can't even do that.
You probably have a bad limit switch, or wiring fault to a limit switch. Break out a multimeter and check them out.
The difference is that one is build for CNC cutting, but has hardware for linear movement only (laser, 3d printer and so on), but the other one is the other way around... It's quiet weird really. I think it has to do with reaching a certain price point. Imagine the Genmitsu motors + spindle + ball screws on the Masuter and vice versa. The new Masuter would likely cost $3-400 more but it would be purpose build for actual CNC cutting and not a mashup of technologies, like they both are
Excellent! Thank you.
Thanks 🙏
Very interesting from France.
That's a great video - it's really hard to choose a machine from stand-alone reviews - a comparison makes it much clearer. Myself I'd like to see one for the next price point up - what are the next levels of contenders, how do they compare and what extra do you get for your money from this level.
Great review. Thank you
Thank you 👍
Very interesting,
Great video! Thank you!
For anyone going weighing their options the Sainsmart pro took me much longer than what the company claims. Possible reasons- 1: First time ever assembling one, 2: I challenged myself to build it in 15min, 3: Read as I built it 4:had to disassemble and reassemble due to parts being flipped. My tip: Take your time reading and understanding the instructions, who cares about the 15 minute setup?!
Very valid point, it shouldn't be a race. I think the overall message for that one though is essentially there is less to assemble with the Sainsmart and therefore less to go wrong.
One major drawback for the Foxalien: it's electronics board is in the way if you want to do longer pieces with tiled cutting area's
For instance a so called "growing scale of 6 feet"
For your next video: What are the pros/cons of a router v spindle? For those of us contemplating entry to the CNC world and don't know.
By design, routers are not made to run for long periods of time. A real brushless vfd spindle has less runout, more torque, higher accuracy. Quieter, more power capability. Imo a spindle out beats a router any day if comparing 2 of same power. Then you get into brushed spindle vs brushless🙏 thats just my opinion though based on what ive learned. What one prefers over another is all preference😸🙏
That is a good video I could do. Thanks. In essence, a router is cheap, easy to get and easy to setup. A proper spindle usually requires a VFD to run, a little more setup time and configuration but equally they are usually more powerful, quieter and have a longer lifespan as they are brushless
@@JamesDeanDesigns some options of vfd spindle kits come pre programmed nowdays too, what a time to be alive 😂
Weight, not size, on the Z axis assembly is what will cause flex on the gantry. Better give that one back to SainSmart. Unless you have the weight for both assemblies?
Also, lead screws are better options because belts can slip or jump off pulleys. 45 years in electrical trades experience.
The 4040 has a rotary attachment is now available which is a win for me
Great Video as usual James! I wish Fox Alien would provide an extension kit for the 4040-XE……may-be?
Not sure what they are doing with the 4040-XE to be honest, it can be extended but is certainly more of a DIY job
7:59 says it all for me. Need to stop talking - might (annoy) upset a manufacturer. - will look elsewhere for a unbiased review. Also - did not see anything or any reference to accuracy of either machine. Surely how accurate the machine is important?
Thanks for the feedback. First, that quote isn't accurate. Also probably a little harsh as there are enough examples on my channel of me telling manufacturers what they have done wrong. And after that quote, I dont stop talking do I, its just a bit of dialogue for the video. Accuracy is a difficult one because there are so many variables. What spindle or router has been used, how much runout it has, what collets and bits, whether the machine has been calibrated, whether the machine has even been setup correctly and square. And most importantly the user. If I say I've got these machines to run with 0.01mm and others users can't match that, I then get accused of being sent better machines (which has happened) so its a no win scenario for me. There is usually some reference to the accuracy in the full reviews but I'd say realistically with either of these machines your talking around a 0.1-0.2mm out the box, this can be lowered if you take the time to dial them in
@@JamesDeanDesigns thank you for the honest reply. Yes I did get the quote wrong. But I'm not convinced it changes my view that you hold your relationship with your manufactures who send you free goods in high regard.
@@davidnelson1322 and that's ok. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I'm guessing this is probably the only video of mine you have seen. I have a great review policy in place giving me the right to openly review any machine as say what I like. I've called manufacturers out like Xtool for trying to narrate what they wanted me to say, but it sounds like your opinion is already set so very little reason in me trying to convince you otherwise.
Which machine does not need a computer to run don't have internet at work shop
They sell an offline controller for the Genmitsu 4040-Pro on their website...
Get internet
Foxalien customer service is terrible. I asked what size material the masuter pro is able to cut through and couldn't get a straight answer after 3 days of back and forth.
They also had an ad campaign with a guitar youtuber and they were trying to claim it is capable of making a guitar with the 4080 extension kit, but I don't even think a guitar body blank will fit (z height terrible). You have to turn the base upside down and elevate it and even then you can't cut all the way through.
There were a lot of newbies that fell for this ad campaign and shelled out the money for the fox alien and I don't think you can actually accurately make a guitar with it!
They have got to lose points for false advertising. At least sainsmart don't do that kinda crap.
a belt goes around your waist! not in a cnc ...i've never seen a Komo cnc router with belts why worry about rapids ,just pay attention to feeds and speeds
If you're watching this video and trying to put an industrial grade CNC machine into the conversion then there is little point in me trying to debate with you so I'll leave you to be 👍
@@JamesDeanDesigns wasn't trying to slight ether machine i just prefer lead or ball screws to a belt ... i have a FA laser and for the money it's great ...now which do you prefer the sain smart 6050 or the FA Vasto?
@@vinragemania9312 if I had the slightly larger Vasto (the XL) then probably that. The stepper motors I the 6050 are stronger but I felt overall the frame was probably stronger (or more stable) than the Vasto.
Genmitsu 100%
Greetings, can you put the subtitles in Spanish to your videos, please
I do not speak Spanish so I'm not 100% how I would do this accurately 😕. I thought TH-cam automatically translated translated English subtitles I upload but I guess not. I'll look into this
Thank you for answering, you can check in your next video, if you can activate the subtitles in Spanish, before uploading the video, please, they only appear in English, on TH-cam there is a way to listen to the audio in Spanish but the subtitles must be there in Spanish
As of today the 4040 is $220 cheaper than the Masuter.
Buy the Sainsmart. Ive had both and the mausuter pro sucks with its crappy belts. Its too slow as a laser engraver and too weak as a router. Sainsmart is more robust.
Its duel, not dual ;)
Like the tumbnail 👍
Miss spelled video title m8
Misspelled your comment mate 😀
What a BS review. "the both get a point" it looks like you were trying g to give foxalien some undeserved points. Grow some balls
LOL. Warning. Misinformation.
What misinformation?
Both are super shitty CNCs
Feel free to be useful and suggest another CNC for around $600 that comes largely assembled, can be up and running in under 30 minutes and will out perform these.
At the end of the day, i feel both are great options for tge absolute beginner. To me a machine is only as good as the operator, but i do prefer fox. The orange anodised aluminum is 🤌🤌🤌