You can do, that works as well. There are lots of different ways, it's more the concept of taking a reading from something else other than your material to gauge the height difference.
I found quite handy. However, I've invested in some ¼ drill and router bit stops or collars. I took the time to make a jig that I can drop my bit into and set the depth stop FLAT side up on the bit and tighten. The jig assures that all the bits are set exactly the same height. When seated in my collet. This allows me to set the Z Axis with the first bit. Any subsequent bit, properly installed properly, to be exactly in the same zed height. I have actually created sets of bits at different heights based on their length and safe insert distance for mounting. When a bit gets broken or wears out, I simply move the coller to the new bit and set it using the jig.
I bought something similar at pwnc. Their collars and screw were too big. When I put the bit into the router and turned it on it made a loud racket and through the bit out of balance because of the heavy collar and screw. It was a big waste of money for me. If they used the same size collars as what is on a flush trim bit that wouldn't be a problem. I just went back to using shrink wrap paper and have no problems changing bits.
Could you possibly please explain how to measure off of the spoil board instead of material surface using CarveCo and ugs?? I think it would make a great video and it would help many like me who can’t figure it out 😊
Technically the same process. You just use the probe from the spoilboard. The difference is actually in your software, you tell that to plan its toolpath from the bottom and not the top. Doesn't make much difference really on larger machines but on smaller machines, if you're material thickness is off (lets say its 21mm and you measured 20mm) that first lot of cuts is going to be pretty aggressive on your machine as it's going through an extra millimeter of material it doesn't know about
@@JamesDeanDesigns If you measure from the spoil board does every piece you put down have to be surfaced first before you run the carve to ensure each piece is the same thickness
@@JamesDeanDesigns It keeps driving the bit all the way down to the spoil board when I probe off of it, I set bottom of material in carveco and probe from spoil board but it isnt working for me
I usually just measure my stock at the thickest part first, then zero on the bed (so, if I was working with 10mm stock, I zero on the bed, then type G90 Z10 into the console and rezero).
Hi James.. Very good clear and concise video as always. I take it you are dividing your gcode file into as many tool changes as required; eg running the roughing file first, changing the bit and then loading and running the finishing file? Not having used any other programs I'm not sure if the following is uneque to Carbide Create, but a while back I saw a post suggesting the following when a bit change is required mid file, such as when running an Advanced V-Carve toolpath. Under Edit, click Select Post Processor from the drop down menu, select Carbide 3D Shapeoko as your post processor and click okay. By doing this when the gcode file is saved it automatically adds code to raise the spindle to allow tool changes. But as l'm using a 3018 when running the file within Candle (or UGS), that doesn't recognise tool change codes, the spindle rises a little, stops and it throws up an error:20. Click [Ignore] and the spindle will continue to rise, but be prepared to click the [Pause] button when the spindle gets to the top of the Z axis. Note: if you don't click the [Pause] button in time, the spindle will start spinning and you will have to stop it manually. To set my tools/cutters to exactly the same length in the collet I use either collars, or a simple height setting divice I came up with. Once the tool has been changed, if stopped manually, start the spindle and click [Pause] to continue.
GRBL based machines like mine and 3018s do not understand/accept the tool change commands so you literally have to do separate files which is probably why you are finding it gives an error code. I also generally find it safer to run as 2 separate files as well for the most part
@@JamesDeanDesigns No your right. I don't know if it depends on what software your using to read the gCode but if you do not have a carbide 3d machine, like me, it issues a pause command, I use gSender and when gSender gets that pause command it tells me do I want to change tool or do I want to continue. I feel it depends on what your using to read your gCode.
@iwannaapple7190 from my research it usually depends on what your post processor is. The "GRBL mm" or "GRBL inch" doesn't insert any pause commands and is the best to use. Where as some people use other ones like "Gcode" which can insert pauses and then cause issue. They often believe that because they are using Gcode that the processor is fine when it's not ideal for GRBL machines
Hi there, My CNC doesn't lift high enough and cuts into the material, could you tell me what I must to do? I use Aspire and mach3 ,I will be happy if you or someone help me.
hello and congratulations for the channel I have a problem with the configuration of the zprobe on cnc 4040 pro genmitzu I wanted to know if you could help me thanks
Hi James, I have learned a lot from watching your videos. I have made a CNC machine myself, all commands are executed properly except the z probe and the xyz probe. The problem is when using the z probe the z axis goes up instead of down! The movements are also reversed with the xyz probe! Homing works well, hard and soft limits are ok. I use UGS. Does anything need to be adjusted in macros? can you help me please. Kind regards, Pedro from Belgium :-)
I was doing the review of the Yorahome Silverback and found the files somewhere, possibly 3axis.co. I modified them a little as I was using a different thickness material but was happy with how it came out.
You can do. One issue with using the waste board is you can technically never use your full work area because you always need space to zero. Also in terms of material thickness, lets say you take a reading on the edge like most people do and its 30mm thick, but in the centre its 31 or even 32mm thick, by zeroing off the bed means your first cut is really going to struggle when it hits those thicker parts
Zeroing from the material surface is not a good idea and I do not recommend it. First problem is that there is a good chance that you will cut into your spoil board. If you were not very accurate in the measurement of the material, usually at the cut out stage. If your bed uses aluminum T rails, you may even contact one of those and damage the bit and the T rail. Second, your original point of measurement may end up getting removed during the cutting process and now you have no point of reference. Especially if your zero start is on the top middle piece of your material. Third, if you cut a 2 sided piece, because you are using the top of the material for your final thickness, thickness will probably be off because you are using two different planes or points of reference (one for each side of the material). This will be an issue lets say for example cutting a guitar fret board where thickness is critical. Get use to using the machine bed as your zero point. You will always have a consistent point of reference. And always use that same zero position as close to the material as possible in case your machine bed is not flat and to keep consistency. You will be able to make that last cutout pass very thin, and not have to worry about the machine bed or your bits end up damaged. Also clean you collet and bit before the start of each new job. A dirty bit can slip or move around in the collet and throw your work off, or even end up digging into your material. I just use a Q tip and alcohol and have good results. Get or make a zero probe. It will again improve accuracy. They are simple to make. If you do not like the idea of trying to get a clip to stay on your bit, get hold of a meter and see if you have continuity between the tip of your installed router bit and the aluminum frame of your router. Most do. If so, you can run a wire from your router case to your cnc controller board, which usually has a connection for a zero probe. Then you just need to run a wire usually from ground on your controller to any kind of metal plate for your zero plate. Make sure to adjust your software to compensate for the thickness of the metal plate. Run zero mode and just tap the plate to your bit to make sure it works properly. Good luck what ever way you decide. Thanks for the great video!
I sort of get where you're coming coming from but there are as many arguments (if not more) to zero from the surface of the material as there is the bed which is why both exist and I would certainly say in my experience and of those I know more experienced than my self pretty much always zero from from top of the material. A spoilboard is there to be cut into, that literally is its purpose as well as being a surface you can level. It is a disposable board so I really wouldn't worry about that. Also worth pointing out an MDF bed and spoilboard are not the same. The machine in the video doesn't have a spoilboard (yet), it has an MDF bed and therefore needs to have a spoilboard fitted to it. A spoilboard should be at least 6mm thick ideally so if someone is going through that, the remaining MDF and getting close to the aluminium then there is a serious issue 😆
Just did a cnc job today, always using material surfaces as my Z zero and i can confirm I cannot get thicknesses correct. I'll from now on use known points only either machine bed or precision surfaces on my vice where I could easily calculate distances from..
This is very useful for me, I am just starting to use my cnc mill
Great ideas! I especially like the differential method
Thanks so much!
On the last method, why use a metal block instead of a z-probe on the bed and then use that offset?
good question
You can do, that works as well. There are lots of different ways, it's more the concept of taking a reading from something else other than your material to gauge the height difference.
I found quite handy. However, I've invested in some ¼ drill and router bit stops or collars. I took the time to make a jig that I can drop my bit into and set the depth stop FLAT side up on the bit and tighten. The jig assures that all the bits are set exactly the same height. When seated in my collet.
This allows me to set the Z Axis with the first bit. Any subsequent bit, properly installed properly, to be exactly in the same zed height.
I have actually created sets of bits at different heights based on their length and safe insert distance for mounting.
When a bit gets broken or wears out, I simply move the coller to the new bit and set it using the jig.
I bought something similar at pwnc. Their collars and screw were too big. When I put the bit into the router and turned it on it made a loud racket and through the bit out of balance because of the heavy collar and screw. It was a big waste of money for me. If they used the same size collars as what is on a flush trim bit that wouldn't be a problem. I just went back to using shrink wrap paper and have no problems changing bits.
Great information thank you for sharing. Stay safe, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia
Thank you.
Good advice James! Thanks for sharing!
Dave
Could you possibly please explain how to measure off of the spoil board instead of material surface using CarveCo and ugs?? I think it would make a great video and it would help many like me who can’t figure it out 😊
Technically the same process. You just use the probe from the spoilboard. The difference is actually in your software, you tell that to plan its toolpath from the bottom and not the top. Doesn't make much difference really on larger machines but on smaller machines, if you're material thickness is off (lets say its 21mm and you measured 20mm) that first lot of cuts is going to be pretty aggressive on your machine as it's going through an extra millimeter of material it doesn't know about
@@JamesDeanDesigns
If you measure from the spoil board does every piece you put down have to be surfaced first before you run the carve to ensure each piece is the same thickness
@@JamesDeanDesigns It keeps driving the bit all the way down to the spoil board when I probe off of it, I set bottom of material in carveco and probe from spoil board but it isnt working for me
I usually just measure my stock at the thickest part first, then zero on the bed (so, if I was working with 10mm stock, I zero on the bed, then type G90 Z10 into the console and rezero).
If you connect Makita as spinner then you control speed manually?
Hi James.. Very good clear and concise video as always. I take it you are dividing your gcode file into as many tool changes as required; eg running the roughing file first, changing the bit and then loading and running the finishing file?
Not having used any other programs I'm not sure if the following is uneque to Carbide Create, but a while back I saw a post suggesting the following when a bit change is required mid file, such as when running an Advanced V-Carve toolpath.
Under Edit, click Select Post Processor from the drop down menu, select Carbide 3D Shapeoko as your post processor and click okay.
By doing this when the gcode file is saved it automatically adds code to raise the spindle to allow tool changes. But as l'm using a 3018 when running the file within Candle (or UGS), that doesn't recognise tool change codes, the spindle rises a little, stops and it throws up an error:20. Click [Ignore] and the spindle will continue to rise, but be prepared to click the [Pause] button when the spindle gets to the top of the Z axis. Note: if you don't click the [Pause] button in time, the spindle will start spinning and you will have to stop it manually.
To set my tools/cutters to exactly the same length in the collet I use either collars, or a simple height setting divice I came up with.
Once the tool has been changed, if stopped manually, start the spindle and click [Pause] to continue.
GRBL based machines like mine and 3018s do not understand/accept the tool change commands so you literally have to do separate files which is probably why you are finding it gives an error code. I also generally find it safer to run as 2 separate files as well for the most part
@@JamesDeanDesigns I take your point, but as a test I created a single file with 13 tool changes and it completed the file without any issues.
@@JamesDeanDesigns
No your right. I don't know if it depends on what software your using to read the gCode but if you do not have a carbide 3d machine, like me, it issues a pause command, I use gSender and when gSender gets that pause command it tells me do I want to change tool or do I want to continue. I feel it depends on what your using to read your gCode.
@iwannaapple7190 from my research it usually depends on what your post processor is. The "GRBL mm" or "GRBL inch" doesn't insert any pause commands and is the best to use. Where as some people use other ones like "Gcode" which can insert pauses and then cause issue. They often believe that because they are using Gcode that the processor is fine when it's not ideal for GRBL machines
Hi James, Does homing the machine after setting the z-height, reset the z-height?
Hi there, My CNC doesn't lift high enough and cuts into the material, could you tell me what I must to do? I use Aspire and mach3 ,I will be happy if you or someone help me.
hello and congratulations for the channel I have a problem with the configuration of the zprobe on cnc 4040 pro genmitzu I wanted to know if you could help me thanks
I'll try if I can. Comments on here sometimes get buried so it's often better to message me via my website www.jamesdeandesigns.com
Hi James, I have learned a lot from watching your videos. I have made a CNC machine myself, all commands are executed properly except the z probe and the xyz probe. The problem is when using the z probe the z axis goes up instead of down! The movements are also reversed with the xyz probe! Homing works well, hard and soft limits are ok. I use UGS. Does anything need to be adjusted in macros? can you help me please. Kind regards, Pedro from Belgium :-)
how did u do that mustang . i wanna see the design for it
I was doing the review of the Yorahome Silverback and found the files somewhere, possibly 3axis.co. I modified them a little as I was using a different thickness material but was happy with how it came out.
Fantastic information! thanks for sharing this.
Glad it was helpful!
Great explanation! Thank you!
Thank you very much
QUICK QUYESTION, as I went about this the wrong way and bought a chinesium setup can anyone help me out with how to reset my home setting
My Z probe worked yesterday but today I tried to keep pressing down beyond the probe and strained the z motor
Sounds like a bad connection somewhere. have you managed to get it working yet?
Good stuff
Glad you enjoyed
why not use the wasteboard to to set your z height in situations like this, good video, thank you.
You can do. One issue with using the waste board is you can technically never use your full work area because you always need space to zero. Also in terms of material thickness, lets say you take a reading on the edge like most people do and its 30mm thick, but in the centre its 31 or even 32mm thick, by zeroing off the bed means your first cut is really going to struggle when it hits those thicker parts
Still terrified about my first double cut lol
Just get stuck in :)
Americans: “Zed. *snicker*”
The rest of the English speaking world: “Oh, grow up!”
thanks I have
I would love to become a patron could you possibly lean me some money to become one LoL
BUT as always great video
Brilliant, where did you get the stl for the clock face 🙏
Good question. It would have been on of the places I list in this video. Free-stl.ru perhaps
th-cam.com/video/y8-c756Hk7o/w-d-xo.html
Zeroing from the material surface is not a good idea and I do not recommend it. First problem is that there is a good chance that you will cut into your spoil board. If you were not very accurate in the measurement of the material, usually at the cut out stage. If your bed uses aluminum T rails, you may even contact one of those and damage the bit and the T rail. Second, your original point of measurement may end up getting removed during the cutting process and now you have no point of reference. Especially if your zero start is on the top middle piece of your material. Third, if you cut a 2 sided piece, because you are using the top of the material for your final thickness, thickness will probably be off because you are using two different planes or points of reference (one for each side of the material). This will be an issue lets say for example cutting a guitar fret board where thickness is critical. Get use to using the machine bed as your zero point. You will always have a consistent point of reference. And always use that same zero position as close to the material as possible in case your machine bed is not flat and to keep consistency. You will be able to make that last cutout pass very thin, and not have to worry about the machine bed or your bits end up damaged. Also clean you collet and bit before the start of each new job. A dirty bit can slip or move around in the collet and throw your work off, or even end up digging into your material. I just use a Q tip and alcohol and have good results. Get or make a zero probe. It will again improve accuracy. They are simple to make. If you do not like the idea of trying to get a clip to stay on your bit, get hold of a meter and see if you have continuity between the tip of your installed router bit and the aluminum frame of your router. Most do. If so, you can run a wire from your router case to your cnc controller board, which usually has a connection for a zero probe. Then you just need to run a wire usually from ground on your controller to any kind of metal plate for your zero plate. Make sure to adjust your software to compensate for the thickness of the metal plate. Run zero mode and just tap the plate to your bit to make sure it works properly. Good luck what ever way you decide. Thanks for the great video!
I sort of get where you're coming coming from but there are as many arguments (if not more) to zero from the surface of the material as there is the bed which is why both exist and I would certainly say in my experience and of those I know more experienced than my self pretty much always zero from from top of the material. A spoilboard is there to be cut into, that literally is its purpose as well as being a surface you can level. It is a disposable board so I really wouldn't worry about that. Also worth pointing out an MDF bed and spoilboard are not the same. The machine in the video doesn't have a spoilboard (yet), it has an MDF bed and therefore needs to have a spoilboard fitted to it. A spoilboard should be at least 6mm thick ideally so if someone is going through that, the remaining MDF and getting close to the aluminium then there is a serious issue 😆
Just did a cnc job today, always using material surfaces as my Z zero and i can confirm I cannot get thicknesses correct. I'll from now on use known points only either machine bed or precision surfaces on my vice where I could easily calculate distances from..
Great explanation. Thanks a lot