Gatekeeping and Notation: Why MuseScore 4 isn't Professional
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- Music has occasionally been an activity only those with money and time can do. With high costs and barriers to receive the best music education, can MuseScore potentially change that? Could MuseScore 4 completely change music and make composition, engraving, and music production careers accessible to the masses? Why is MuseScore not considered professional, where Sibelius, Dorico, and Finale are?
Chapters:
0:00 - intro
0:32 - Why isn't MuseScore 4 considered professional?
0:47 - tools and resources
1:05 - Unusual notation
1:50 - Rite of Passage
2:18 - Can't Scores look good regardless?
2:58 - MuseScore 4's engraving is better?
3:52 - How is this Gatekeeping?
- 4:08 - price
- 4:18 - experience
- 4:38 - attitudes
5:05 - Hard to Learn
5:23 - Should we be worried about the ramifications of gatekeeping?
6:34 - conclusion
Short Guitar Clip by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Artist: audionautix.com/ - เพลง
I'm obviously biased, since I run MuseScore... but the statement that Sibelius, Finale and Dorico have a much higher ceiling in terms of engraving is just untrue. Sibelius and Finale are generally behind. Dorico are still in front but only marginally and we'll close that gap soon too.
It is true that we need to invest in functionality that would enable contemporary notation. We're very much filling in the missing gaps before attacking that particular beast.
The perception problem mentioned here is legit. MuseScore has for most of its life been the Spirit Airlines of notation software. MS4 did not solve all problems. It is not a finished concept. However, I hope it's clear that we're moving very quickly to alter that perception. I think it'll take years before education catches up. I do not think any professor raised on Finale or Sibelius will stop using it for MuseScore. The change will be generational.
Nice video!
The man himself!
Hello! I appreciate the comment! Thank you so much. I've had professors heavily try to move fellow composers off of musescore, but it's definitely generational.
Additionally, I do utilize Dorico! (moved from finale for the exact reason of engraving gaps!). Maybe that lead to the bias in the video.
Thank you for checking the video out!!! I absolutely love what you're doing at MuseScore and am hoping it gets as strong as Dorico as soon as possible.
Have a Wonderful, Musical Day!!!!
i think they are all shit,
let's start using Musitude instead!
I can't even move my notes horizontally in MuseScore. Basic things like fermata or modent are hidden somewhere so I have to use search box. While I have literally 1/3 of my screen empty. Rest toggles off every time I change duration for some reason and I have to toggle it back every single time. Not to mention the very idea of rests as a toggleable MODE is weird, why wouldn't have them as another panel?
Let's say I gotta edit my beams, I have to switch to 3rd tab and in this tab switch to another 3rd tab where I find what I need. When I try cut and paste sequences they break the whole staff, to avoid this I gotta... click manually every note, and even then it won't work because all other symbols will be left behind, so don't forget to click every single one of them as well. And why can't I just click on a random spot on the sheet music and put a note there, so the rests will automatically adjust?
And it's only 20 minutes in MuseScore. I've never seen a program that so violently doesn't want me to use it.
I don't think the fact you can't write extremely complex contemporary music in ms4 (like that of sorabji and finnissy) warrants a 6 minute video essay about how ms4 is "Gatekeeping notation" you can still notate very complex music. Also I don't think it'll be very easy to add support for notation that extreme. and will probably take a very long time to implement to begin with. and hell, in the meantime someone might come along and add Plugins for things such as notating clusters or extended techniques possibly.
Hello! Appreciate the comment! The intention was to talk about gatekeeping in music notation in general and the issues with paid programs in general, not only with MuseScore. Apologies for any confusion! The more we can make any type of music more accessible, the better it will be!
Gatekeeping or not, it is always important to explore the challenges of notation in music, and we should continue to discuss! Have a wonderful, musical day!
You mention several times that there are things Finale, Sibelius and Dorico can do that MuseScore can't, but you don't identify any concrete examples. What are the specific features that are missing from MuseScore 4 that you think make it unsuitable for professional work, and what specific professional uses are you referring to? Certainly many professional musicians can and do get everything they need from MuseScore, and its MIDI implementation enables it to be incorporated easily into a broader DAW workflow, regardless of the presence of a specific organization-owned software ecosystem (although the same people run Audacity, an industry-standard sound editing software).
Hello! Thank you for commenting!
For me, it's a lot of small things. Getting a score from 95% to 100% can be quite difficult in MuseScore, where it is much easier in some other programs. It all really depends on the score you're trying to create. A simple string quartet? MuseScore is Professional enough? A complicated full orchestra with graphics, modern notation, and so much more, MuseScore may not handle it!
Something like harp diagrams that require additional downloads and plugins for Musescore are found natively in Finale, Sibelius, and Dorico, which are used frequently in every piece with a harp in it. (Found here: musescore.org/en/project/harp-pedal-diagram-0). Feathered beaming is also possible, but more difficult! However, for traditional notation, musescore 4 excels!
I’ve also had many antidotes of more modern, avant garde notation being harder to notate in MuseScore. While Possible, no professional would want to spend more time doing something they have to do.
With Audacity, it is wonderful, but some aspects of music simply use what they’ve been used to, which can make new software harder to use. (lack of easy collaboration, less understanding across most of the field, etc.). Audacity is wonderful and has DAW like compatibilities, but the tools that programs like Cubase, Logic Pro, and Pro Tools offer is much more expansive.
Simply put, any time something is harder, it adds another barrier! Thank you for the feedback. :)
@@TheMusicalNotesOfficial Audacity is a waveform editor. It absolutely is not and should not be used as a DAW replacement except in the most desperate of situations. MuseScore's MIDI capabilities are what allows it to be used effectively alongside a DAW, either as a source from which to generate a session, or as a destination for transcribing material that's already been sequenced.
@Rubingah Hello, you are correct. DAW like capabilities is not the same as a DAW.
Additionally, the more we make music harder for people who can't afford programs (such as DAWs and advanced engraving capabilities), the more we have accessibility issues of music creation for the masses. While MuseScore's MIDI capabilities allow it to be used with a DAW, many of them are behind paywalls.
Anytime something is harder, it adds another barrier, which is the main point of the video. Hopefully we can continue to increase access, but the way music is presented now, music creation may never be fully accessible, thus gatekeeping music to only the elite.
Have a wonderful, musical day!
@@TheMusicalNotesOfficial harp diagrams were added in Musescore 4.1, Feathered beaming is just a normal option in musescore.
Hello,
Good to know that harp pedal diagrams were added natively! Hopefully no additional downloads are needed for this feature. However, there are still several stories and experiences of musicians showcasing how difficult it is to create scores that are 100% accurate. While 90% is close, it is not 100% and may lead to less opportunities.
I love Musescore for giving me a great tool without having to spend money. For those of us that have been along for the ride, it used to be quite limited but they are going in a great direction. I think it will eventually become a program that will be considered as "pro" as Finale and Sibelius, and maybe even better. I feel that it could be the "Reaper of notation".
I am really hoping MuseScore will be considered as "pro" as Finale/Sibelius soon. I think it's extremely close! Having more professional software will be even better for music at large!!!
As a casual composer who exclusively uses musescore, I must say that this is NOT the biggest issue with it. The biggest issue with it is the sheer number of crashes and bugs that have been occurring since I started and for some reason aren't really getting fixed with each update.
This is interesting. I love Musescore because it is the most stable music notation software I have ever used. I have never once crashed on Musescore and the feeling and movement of it is amazing.
@@bossk8957 I and my composer friend each crash countless times per month. Him more so as he deals with much larger projects than me usually. Granted we are both MacBook Air M2 users so that may play a role in it. Despite that though the app generally isn’t very stable for some god forsaken reason
I think I see your point: lots of workarounds when it comes to very complicated notation. However, as I also experienced finale, musescore is way more capable and flexible in comparison. I probably would say that the only truly more powerful option at the moment is dorico. But the musescore team is doing really great, and each update provides always something new and useful, and I can really see musescore eating the gap gradually and steadily.
As a professional composer I've been using musescore as my engraver since four years at least, and I've never regretted it.
Glad MuseScore has worked so well for you! MuseScore has really improved, especially with MuseScore 4!!! I am really hoping it closes every gap as soon as possible, as pricing of other software can also be a barrier for musicians. Have a wonderful, musical day!
MuseScore is great for music enthusiasts, but ultimately, if you're a professional doing this for your work, you'll find yourself eventually switching to Dorico, Sibelius, or Finale. PSA: Dorico is where it's at these days.
I also love Dorico! (switched to Dorico last year and have been loving it so far!)
I think a lot of the perception that MuseScore isn't as good or professional comes from seeing hobbyists (such as myself) not always doing a good job at beautifying the score
This comes from the positive of MuseScore not only being free and easy to use, but also encouraging people to share their work, which means that when a hobbyist composer shares a badly engraved piece (which wouldn't have been any better in any software) it probably comes from MuseScore
Blender and Godot (and many other free software) also face this image issue of having people without skill or care that still make stuff, and instead of seeing it as the beautiful thing that it is, it looks unprofessional (which it definitely does, but using that to justify gatekeeping only makes it worse)
Very fair! Especially since the release of MuseScore 4, it's been a lot closer to professional, and it makes music much more accessible. I'll never judge someone for using MuseScore. It has improved a lot!
I'm happy to see MuseScore eliminate barriers in music, and continue to hope that it breaks down more barriers so less users face walls when entering music professional!
Have a wonderful, musical day.
I have to admit I've used musescore for a bigger score last year (8 parts) and I ended up with a result where, despite extensive attempts, I just couldn't tweak the layout to get the result I needed and ended up converting it to lilypond instead (which luckily is mostly automatic, although some manual cleanup was needed after the conversion) where I could easily finalize it. For the majority of scores I've made though, musescore has been more than sufficient.
While MuseScore has improved significantly in the last few years, it does have a lot to improve. I am excited to see its improvements though!
Have a wonderful, musical day!
In my experience, there are certain modern notations possible in MuseScore that require more difficult workarounds in Sibelius. Now, that was in MuseScore 3.6 - some of this flexibility was lost in 4.x, but it is gradually improving. I think it is reasonable to expect that by version 5 these issues will be resolved. Another thing worth mentioning is that the user interface of MuseScore is far better than the alternatives, as Tantacrul has discussed in his videos. Thanks for the video and take care!
MS for those are who students. It is free and it has it is own vsti!
Steinberg is an infant to the other two. Finale is preferred by copyist. Alfred and make music are now team members.
MuseScore hub is now paired up with arrange me.
Dorico doesn't have that! Nor is sibeluis.
The only that thing holding these two together is media writers. Avid is media company. Steinberg is trying to take that away. But in order to do you need everyone to switch over.
That includes composers, copyist, and orchestrators. And the likelihood of that happening is low.
Also the second question: do publishers care about what program we use?
Hello! You make great points. While I compose primarily in Dorico now, Finale being big in the copying world is why I keep it on my computer. I prefer Dorico, but Finale is too big not to use in some instances.
I recently talked to some publishers, as I am looking to get some band pieces published. Most prefer Finale/Sibelius, and some publishers also take Dorico. Even the ones that don't currently take Dorico are warming up to the idea of taking Dorico files. I haven't seen any taking MuseScore files!
This is why we must compose our music with common notation. When we are taught math, we don't use some foreign notation, we use the common notation. The same applies to music imo
For most music, common notation is wonderful! I think having as common as notation as possible is necessary for music at large. Have a wonderful, musical day!
By common notation, do you mean numbers? Because that won't work nearly as well.
by common notation in music I mean the notation that is generally accepted. By common notation in math I mean the same; if I want to add two numbers together then I use a "+" symbol, I don't try and invent a new symbol for addition. The same is for music, I don't need to reinvent the musical alphabet to convey my music and I hold firm that others don't either.@@KieraQ0323
Hello Musical Friends!
Is gatekeeping in music notation a big problem? Should we be worried about it, and is MuseScore helping eliminate several barriers to music composition and engraving? Let us know in the comments!
Have a wonderful, musical day!
Video summed up in one sentence: professionnal notation softwares have more options but you need to know how to use them anyway. Waste of time.
Hello! I also tried to mention that pricing, an abundance of workarounds, and societal attitudes also create barriers for musicians in the industry. Gatekeeping is not limited to more options, but it can be a factor. We should always strive to have music be as accessible as possible while not lowering quality.
Have a wonderful, musical day!
Musescore is amazing!!!
way too vague
Hello!
I am always trying to improve on content, as well as start conversations about music amongst my fellow musicians. May you tell me where the video is "way too vague?"
Have a wonderful, musical day!!
i like the irony of this comment
Video sponsored by Sibelius?
Not sponsored by Sibelius! Opinions are of my own, and I'd love to see MuseScore continue to improve and overtake as many notation softwares as possible (as stated in the video).
Music and accessibility is always an issue, and I feel that we need to continue to discuss these accessibility issues.
Sorry, who's gatekeeping? Musecore? By providing software that is free and available not only on Mac/Windows but also Linux? Or Sibelius/Finale do gatekeeping? How? With price? You're showing some video-clips where hundreds and hundreds of dollars being counted but that's far from reality. Because Finale is 300 bucks. Sibelius - $20/month. It is not a huge amount for a professional or an ambitious student (students get discounts). And there are free trials, you're not forced to buy blindly. A computer is already a big investment, cost of Finale/Sibelius is very small compared to that. Your video title is confusing (reads like "Musescore does gatekeeping because it is unprofessional"), I don't understand why are you focusing on Musescore, it is a free software, great achievement, but for me it crashes too often, that's the most frustrating part. But while with paid software you can demand an improvement and expect a quick resolution, with free - only kindly ask and expect to wait years for a fix. Nothing to talk about here, really, professionals have the software they need and the price is justified and they can afford it otherwise that is a hobby and hobbies also can be expensive and that is normal.
tl;dr - no program is intentionally gatekeeping, but business is business. prices can be unintentional gatekeeping. I will still criticize MuseScore, not expecitng quick developments, but to have amazing programs in the long haul. Culture in professional composition (publishers needing Finale/Sibelius files, older professors being against use of MuseScore) may create unintentional gatekeeping while using MuseScore. Have a wonderful, musical day!
Long comment:
Hello! No notation software is inherently actively gatekeeping. They simply have to do what they have to do. However, culture around music can create barriers, like I mentioned with professors and composers/publishing companies in the video! (Many publishers only will accept Finale or Sibelius Files to publish your works, which can be unintentional gatekeeping!)
Plus, while people may be able to afford a computer, that doesn't mean they can afford another notation software, even if they qualify for a student discount! I also find saying "some hobbies are expensive and that is normal and okay" can create several barriers to bringing as many musicians in as possible. (I teach as well, and see many of my students wouldn't be able to afford even $20 a month for a subscription for Sibelius!)
I focus a lot on MuseScore, since I really believe that they can bring down a lot of barriers, especially if they can change the music culture and become as powerful as Dorico! I love what MuseScore is doing, and I think the team they have can do it. I'll criticize MuseScore, not expecting quick developments, but hoping to contribute to their improvements in the long haul! As a younger composer, I want more younger composers, and MuseScore can be a HUGE game changer.
Have a wonderful, musical day!
@@TheMusicalNotesOfficial now I'm kind of getting your point, it is the video that is confusing. I don't think that expensiveness of Sibelius can scare musicians off, I mean, musicians need musical instruments, not notation software, and you can even write score with pencil and paper, no computer required. If you need to collaborate while using different programs then MusicXML could be an answer.
You have some fair points! There are already some more accessible elements of music notation. I will always advocate for more accessible resources for more musicians. :)
Thank you for watching and have a wonderful, musical day!
This is embarrassing to watch. RIP the word "gatekeeping". Did you develop the software? Did you come up with a better solution? Then why would you expect not to pay money for it? Come up with your own solution and stop complaining.
thank you for your opinion! I didn't develop the software, but I don't think that should prevent people from criticizing MuseScore (or music at large, as this video was trying to do with a focus on notation). If we could never criticize anything, no one else could ever improve!
I think MuseScore will be part of the solution to make Music, notation, and composition more accessible and break down barriers. This is why I want to continue to have conversations. I WANT MuseScore to succeed, and I really believe in them!!!
Thank you for your opinion, and have a wonderful, musical day!
@@TheMusicalNotesOfficial thank you for the response. I don't disagree on the whole, but I absolutely don't see how it relates to "gatekeeping".