I agree with dondon and even while casual I still say Micaiah is better than Laura for the set up kills for chip damage for shit units to get them up. Her ability to switch between healing *which is fine because we get like 8 vulenaries or 10 herbs* and both nuke/chip damage on the fly comes in clutch a lot for me. I think her support with Sothe is a harzard and while ok, I argue its better to make her more dodgy with support with Nolan. The Dawn Brigade get a lot of Earth Support so at the very least get rid of her support with Sothe because she won't survive and doing that will help make it since she does provide a little bit of avoid as well and damage. I did Nolan because Nolan has a really hard time and 90% their combination = death because Nolan could tank and Micaiah could chip down units with high def. low res. I think Fiona i you're training Micaiah can be nice because she'll give another Thani tome in Info which is very nice because I legit broke it in like...part 3. Also the whole force deployed wheras Laura is an extra slot out of 10 means you're giving up a slot for a better unit...just for Laura in the end game which sounds like a horrible idea
The first time I resorted to using LTC-adjacent strategies was in FE12 H2, when I just couldn't deal with the constant reinforcements in the endgame. The only way for me to beat the chapters was to play it as fast as possible to make it before reinforcements could catch up, and rig critical hits against Hardin and Medeus.
I appreciate these vids. I always come away having learned a bit more about how to best utilize each unit, which helps me improve as a player. Keep em' coming Mekkah!
In general, Radiant Dawn warrants a .5 system and justifies it by being what it is. I've been making my own unit scores of all Radiant Dawn characters, as in, individually as much as possible according to my hateful 50 playthroughs of Radiant Dawn, having used everyone but Kyza. Everyone will look bad compared to Haar obviously, so I do feel like sometimes separating him in comparison to other units would be nice when it comes to variables like investments and unique positions, weighing if it's detrimental to put this investment item over him, like Dondon said, the speedwing is such a big item for Haar that giving it to Boyd is certainly not to his titulage. The thing with Boyd is, he shares investment pool to units that are better than him and can become active much earlier and fulfills the same role. One very inane factor that sets Boyd above than anyone else even Nolan who is in the same class as him with the same stat caps, even if it is superfluous, is Boyd's fire affinity. Supported with a water, dark, or another fire affinity unit and with the aid of the Urvan and the two blood dragons, he is the only Beorc unit to be able to one-round Auras at cap. Though, again, superfluous since it doesn't really make you that much faster. However, anyone that can double auras can use a brave weapon to 4RKO Auras with supports or not, except Lucia since she would be missing a point of strength even with a +2 damage affinity. But the really big problem is how Boyd needs SO much investments to get going. I've done the blossom Boyd 99 exp every chapter and if he misses one speed level up, it's a travesty, but he does caps stats faster, so realistically, he will get to doubling range for the rest of the game by 3-11, since by then, he has capped stats (due to blossom, his averages lets him cap a stat on level 19 which is HP and possibly strength, ouch) to bring him to Warrior 27 speed cap and you have a super BEXP dump available from 3-9 and 3-10's BEXP reward. I think an overrated part of Reavers is that they deal more damage than any other class, aside from the usual Generals in 4-E-1, there's not a lot for them to one-round, not like they're the only who can ORKO unless you're playing Radiant Counter on 1-2 range cause Boyd can one-round with a hand axe when he reaches 35+ strength and it makes little difference if they deal high damage against auras since unless the aforementioned Boyd fire affinity, you're still going to use another unit to kill them, although, it is nice that the dragons can chip in since they're going to die to one I suppose, doesn't do a lot. And the other chapter in late game for them show off their triceps is 4-E-3, where they will definitely not ORKO Red Dragons, funny though that they can use dragonfoe crossbows. 3-10 is the time where enemies starts to get 21 speed, particularly Halberdiers and Warriors. Everyone else still are pretty little shite. If somehow you got to reach Oscar and Neph to their cap of 25 strength, with a maxed might forge, they can ORKO non-general units easily, however, starting from 3-10 as I said when they gain that one wink of defense that they actually need a damage affinity or a +damage coin forge to ORKO, but since Oscar actually needs to promote to double Halberdiers and Warriors, he will get 2 strength upon promotion and Neph will get three cause Radiant Dawn is misandrist that way, and they will continue to ORKO into Part 4, Oscar needs an easy point of speed though. Kieran has a major issue going into Part 4, where the problem already originates from his joining chapter. His speed cap of 23 severely hurts him more than one may think. Kieran has a problem that he shares with Gatrie, only worse. Due to the (M) Axe Paladin speed cap and his atrocious speed growth, upon promotion from a capped speed in Tier 2, he doesn't even double the Paladins in 4-P, and this is an army you don't want to be a mounted unit in because it goes into the desert chapter, yet it has the lowest speed threshold. So not only you must get Kieran to 23 speed somehow (speedwing gets him there, but again, that's a big investment item) before Part 3 ends, he will still need a lot of training in Part 4 upon promotion and only gets to enjoy doubling range in the two little maps he has in Part 3. Coupled by his non-existent availability in Part 3, this is a glaring weakness worth penalizing a big amount, however, C tier is fine, was not saying he need be moved. Investing properly is important in this game. I think of Mia lesser nowadays when you are able to promote units in a good timing, due to lack of solid 1-2 range weapon cause she can't get forge wind edges. Soren can realistically cap speed by 3-7 or 3-8 and once promoted, he will ORKO everything, yes, everything including Generals. The fact that Soren can do this earlier than Boyd with relatively less investments if you think the free skill book from 2-2 is cheap like I do, then he can cap speed early as long as you manage investments, and I'm not talking about gimping other important units to the ground. However, now he will need two/three more speed for Part 4 to be relatively valuable again. It's important to talk about transitions because certain T2 caps is just really bad going into Part 4. Lmao Brom with his 22 speed cap and 30% speed growth. In the end, I still think this needs revision, Tormod is too high and Zihark too low, if Mia is up there, how come Zihark who is much stronger respectively to their armies and has a better innate skill, and is able to dodge Laguz very well with a double Earth support that low?
I think it's fair to rate units in this game differently as the game progresses just because the game is so railroaded in which units you can use reliably
@@nah4467 But he still has contribution and will get there even quite a bit, that quite a bit is still shallow enough that Zihark's Part 1 contribution is still solid. People say this as if Mia doesn't need investments to get going, she still needs to get to cap strength somehow and her subpar defense that unable her to enemy phase, almost ever, and adept proccing is a lukewarm way to make a unit better, I consider it, but never above nor equal to units that ORKO. And not really, Tiger Laguz are bulky, but not bulky enough to be not get 4RKO by Zihark with a brave sword. The enemies will have 10 hit rate on Resolve Zihark with a double Earth A-support further mitigated by a +10 avoid reed tile, even if they are bulky, it doesn't matter when they're not hitting him.
@@hajoeijgenraam295 I've had a list I've made in a day at the beginning, but I then did a deathless Ironman on my end and added stuff that's worth saying along the way, things I forgot or that are interesting to note. I'm also doing research online as to what to say but most come from experience over my 20+ playthroughs of this game So yeah, I have a basic list that I add to every once in a while. Right now I have more facts left than the amounts of episode the series should take so I might just go over the more interesting ones and leave the others unmentionned. Or I might mention them, I don't really know what to do with them yet
@@gachalibra9243 Not yet, supports are... bland and boring in this game. There's not much to say about them. I have one planned out for future episodes, and it's one of the spiciest fact so far so stay tuned! I'm most likely going to use it by the next 3 episodes
Hearing you guys talk about Pelleas & his staff utility makes me think, maybe a more sophisticated style of tiering FE10 would be a 2-dimensional one in which units are horizontally sorted by *niche* across the x-axis, as opposed to the "1.5-dimensional" style which TierListMaker uses (0.5th dimension = units sorted within tiers).
I always feel like Sanaki was done so dirty, being given Light magic to use instead of Staves when it's more or less functionally the same as Wind magic save Nosferatu (only Wind Magic's probably slightly better since Sanaki doesn't really get a chance to use Light magic against Dark tome users because of how few there are, and doesn't get to use it against a boss like Izuka). The Rudol Gem she gets is also kind of a slap in the face, being given a very noteworthy boost in Defense when there's only the very last chapter left so it doesn't really matter too terribly much. Maybe if it was given earlier before the Tower maybe and gave a bonus to a more useful stat for her like Magic and/or Speed for her it'd be better.
I enjoyed your discussion about types of tier lists. It brings up the same issue with all tier lists: what is the standard for classifying characters? As dondon151 stated, an LTC tier list won't look like this one, nor will it look like one meant to determine efficiency for a normal playthrough. And even those will likely differ between game difficulties, too. It would be interesting if we could draft a more objective classification system (assigning points to a character for advantages and the like) and see how the tier lists turn out then.
I think splitting C & D into C+/- and D+/- would be a good idea, given how crowded those tiers are. Or maybe split B and mostly move people up, leaving D unsplit.
7:24 The one thing I would mention about Kyza is that he can actually ORKO mages in Part 3 at base. It ain't much but like...it's better than half of the Greil Mercenaries tbh.
Wouldn't another point for C tier with Ilanya be that she has utility in terms of passing items down from the dawn to the greil. Even someone as casual as me used that advice and past down a few things.
They usually don't like associating these types of gameplay attributes to characters. Otherwise things like starting inventory, base convo rewards, and other non "in battle" aspects have to be considered and that can get messy.
@@gameboyn64 maybe not, but if you get Illyana killed then you can’t do it anymore. I’d argue that makes it her contribution despite her not having to do anything, you absolutely need her to take advantage of that trick.
@@Bunnymafia8150 that's actually an argument used against ilyana in a lot of tier lists. The fact that you are incentivised not to use her in battle is considered a detriment to her own viability.
Lucia higher than Brom? At least Brom can tank for Part 2, especially considering you don't have a ton of cavs or fliers for 2-1 or 2-2. 2-E is a fast win anyways. Lucia cannot do anything imo except kill people in 2-2. She'll still take decent damage on that map and can get killed if she gets unlucky. This is more of a lower Lucia thing rather than a raise Brom. Gareth and Ena should be higher than her too. Blood Tide on people you have to bring to Tower/Join in Tower.
Nah Brom is awful. 2-1 is a map with literally 2 units so it's hard to really evaluate him in that, but his offense is terrible because he never doubles and he starts with the dumbest inventory and low weapon ranks. In 2-2 his mobility and offense are horrific and there's not much intrinsic value to tanking. Lucia's pretty important in 2-2 because she's the only way that you're ORKOing a lot of enemies. When she comes back in 4-2 she could take a Master Crown and still ORKO stuff with a maxed Silver Sword critforge.
2-1 is hard to evaluate as dondon said, funnily enough, Neph with transfers is better than Brom in that map because she is able to double the boss with a strength and speed transfer, making Brom even more useless than he was. Lucia is very useful in 2-2 and tanking isn't worth anything if they aren't dealing enough damage to justify tanking, Brom does not 3RKO, his kills will either be helped by Mordecai/Lethe/Nealuchi if you even intend to do that. Brom is usable for one map and that's it, and that one map with transfers talk is even more redundant because he loses the tanking aspect when Neph's offensive are really good against the boss, because she has two chances to proc wrath. And if you intend to use Lucia, her bases makes up for her Part 4 performance against Brom, having used Brom from Part 2 to Tower, I can tell you this, he is not worth the training (obviously) and Lucia actually has ease and potential since her base of 27 speed allows her to double in Part 4, so with a silver sword forge, her offense is actually already better than Brom, even whatever training that tantamount to Brom's promotion. (lol 22 speed cap)
@@DD151 Yes I realised that Brom may not be better as I don't like investing in Lucia or giving her a nice forge. Would Gareth and Ena not rank higher than Lucia. You're forced to bring Ena and Gareth is recruited in tower. They have blood tide. That's all I need to say I think
The second I saw I got pinged on discord that this was posted I knew I had to watch it all the way through. I really hope to see dondon come back for games like FE6 and FE7. His comments have been what I watch out for when a new episode came out.
One thing that always gets under my skin in Radiant Dawn is how much higher utility units with at least 34 speed have than other units for just the last couple of chapters. Suddenly, Haar, who can carry the entire rest of the game, because very mediocre at the end. Same for any male paladins.
By the end of the game, you mean the last map, 4-E-5? 4-E-1 and 4-E-3 doesn't have a high speed benchmark, 4-E-1 having 23-27 speed Generals and 4-E-3 with 12 speed Dragons, and 4-E-2 and 4-E-4 are jokes, capable of one turning. You can hand Haar the blessed brave axe to let him do solid damage since he can canto in-out Ena and Gareth, however, if Jill is in there, she can actually 4RKO Auras on her own, anyone with 35ish strength and 34 speed can 4RKO Auras with brave weapons.
@@lofnforseti8447 E4 and E5. Yeah you can 1 turn E4, but I don't think it's fair to just toss it aside because of that. I think you should judge units based on a set of feasible strategies, else evaluating units just simplifies to an LTC tier list.
@@fangiscool1 E4 has 28 speed spirits and there's 30. So be selective and Haar can double, I believe it's the Fire spirits, or maybe the Thunder ones or both. Again, it's not that worth penalizing over even if it's not an LTC tier list.
I'm not gonna argue against the fact that some of the caps in this game are just dumb (or that the franchise's tendency to hand you last second crutch units that render the units you actually care about obsolete is often annoying), but the 34 speed benchmark is only really a big deal on the last map. It's also somewhat complicated by the fact that anyone who knows about the 34 speed threshold in advance probably also already knows Ashera's pattern, so if you have to go one more turn with her than you otherwise would, it's really not a big deal. (And if one turn is a huge deal, you're curbstomping with royals anyway.) A unit you otherwise leaned on up to that point like Haar or Titania can still either put in some work cantoing in and out of blood tide or go on spirit patrol depending on how fast you're trying to finish things off.
I think the exact opposite. Most FE games are too lenient whit stats benchmarks, wich lead to units like harr becoming hilariously overpowered simply because they have good enought stats and a wyvern. Make the enemies of the final 5 maps too fast to be doubled by Paladins and Wyvern lords at their caps and you pretty much fix FE class balance, as things like swordmaster speed or berserker atk become relevant and not overkill.
my thoughts on oscar were about the same as yall's UNTIL i gave him a bow with his T3 promote. brave bow oscar (i dont remember if you can forge them) becomes can kill a bulk of enemies reliably
I don’t really know about Titania being that high, particularly above Ike, who is just absolutely overpowering in this game. Is she better than her closest comparable in Oscar? Absolutely. Is she one of the few characters worth bringing to endgame that isn’t mandatory or a laguz royal or whatever? Sure. But she otherwise has those same usability limitations that are touched on here in regard to mounted units, and isn’t quite as flexible or powerful enough in some of the tower portions, in my experience.
The only limitations Titania has is 3-7, she works fine in 3-4 due to the enemies on the left path and the thunder mages on the left ledge, and she is the only one, barring Haar, that can kill with a hand axe with decent accuracy and is able to ORKO. TItania is extremely powerful, even in the tower. She has access to the Hammer and Wrymslayer for the two maps that can be prolonged, 4-E-1 and 4-E-3, and before that, she can very easily be promoted by 3-5, where with an A-support damage affinity, with a forged steel axe, she is capable of ORKOing Generals already. She's massively powerful. What I don't agree with this list is Ike being lower, because Ike is actually stronger than Titania in the first two maps of Part 3 and is still always almost on par with Titania, even if he is Tier 2 and less investment needs cause he got the bases. He is able to do work with maps that Titania will not be in like 3-7, and by then, he is your 2nd strongest unit below Haar. So yeah, I do believe Ike should be higher.
@@nah4467 An easy way to counter that is transferring the speedwing from Part 1 to Part 3 since there's no good candidate for that, unless you're 0% growths Tauroneo speedwing crown. Titania still has an average speed growth and she only needs to reach 24 to double for most of Part 3, and luckily enough, some maps has lower speed benchmark like 3-2 and 3-5. She's just Haar-lite, with more workable stats.
@@nah4467 same I’ve never had a good Titania, every play through normal or hard falls off second half part 3 damage and speed are hurting, everyones experiences in these games will always differ I think that’s why they give you a large cast.
Putting Leonardo in the same tier as Edward and Aran is a crime One is a knight with STR and DEF One is a myrm with STR and SPD One is an archer with none of the three
@@edwardking9359 Yeah exactly: That's all. There are many pisspoor early game archers in Fire Emblem: Rolf, Gordin, Virion, Wolt, Wil... and Leonardo. Each and everyone of them proves that the ability to do minor chip damage at range is far from enough to salvage a poor unit. Leonardo can't counterattack 95% of enemies and is prone to get absolutely dunked on by the many foes that can double him and his low defenses. Edward and Aran can hold the line with some investment, but Leonardo will stay poor no matter how much your pour into him
@@edwardking9359 I'm sorry, but that's just never going to be as effective as simply having another competitive unit on your team. Every archer that deals a bit of medicore damage on your 10-man squad is a missing cavalier or mage or myrmidon that could have killed that same foe. Every foe that the archer fails to kill is going to be free to target your weakest units on enemy phase, and then it won't matter if that archer took damage or not on your turn, your healer or mage is dead anyway. You can get away with using bad archers on low difficulties, but most players will do a loooot more resetting on the tougher difficulties by using these goombas. Besides, this is Radiant Dawn. It's absolutely SWIMMING in 1-2 range lances and swords for units like Aran and Edward to use, which invalidates your entire point of range giving Leo an advantage. He can practically only attack at 2 range. The others can do both 1 and 2 range from a very early point in the game.d
@@Anonymos185 If you're not ORKOing every single enemy with every single unit you're fielding, an archer is always going to be a good choice. Reliable chip damage is more important than yet another front line unit that takes damage every time they attack.
Coming back to this after returning to my RD HM playthrough and I've found Leo to be a lot more helpful than I remembered, even totally untrained. I'm using Jill, Zihark, and Nolan from 3-6 and 3-12. Leo provided chip in 3-6, was useless in 12, and shot hawks/provided chip while blocking a ledge. I master sealed Aran and tried to use him a tiny bit and when i saw he got doubled and murdered i gave up...so untrained Leo is a lot more useful than the other two, which I'd never found before
As spokesman of the Church of Macaiah Worshippers and Simps we demand that Macaiah moves above Laura. This video is blaspheme. The Maiden of Dawn deserves better rating. She wields the legendary Thani tome, effective against cavalry AND armor (take that Lysithea) and is the original healer with her legendary Sacrifice skill. She is the only one that can access the infinite XP glitch, the sacrifice and heal strat in which she blesses Laura and herself with free XP. She can easily gain access to abilities like purge and physic. She also supports her lover, the Legendary assasin Sothe. Who does Laura support? The scrub Aran. The Chad Macaiah is a better late game unit than the Virgin Laura. Macaiah is better in all stats, even ones that don't matter like luck. Macaiah even has the ability "Summon." She can spawn the Black Knight, the one only character ever to cuck Crimea's Hero Ike, the one who has the power to fell gods. Macaiah is easily S tier waifu and easily above Laura. All those who disagree shall perish and face eternal damnation. Long Live Our Maiden.
eh, just give her a support with Nolan, now she can handle Front lines by being a bit more dodgy. Also give her Edwards Wrath. I think her support with Sothe while nice does not do her any good as a unit or really Sothe too much
@@nah4467 ah yes another great point as the main character required earlier she has more time to build supports with the others as it is their duty to protect our fair maiden
38:15 I have to disagree about Volug being on the same level as Nailah: - Getting him to SS strike by the start of Part 4 takes significant investment, to the point of hampering other DB units - He only needs a few levels to hit AS thresholds, but his Exp Gain is so slow when transformed that at a 40% growth it's actually much harder than it seems - Laguz gauge is still a major issue, considering him getting hit from 2-range will drain about half his gauge. He ends up only being able to attack on PP about half the time.
Good thing we placed Volug below Nailah, then! The whole "unit is worse because they hamper others" argument is always a little iffy because in a way it is circular. A unit needs investment to be optimal, therefore it's optimal to invest everything in that unit and no one else, to the detriment of everyone else. In practical terms we agree that Jill is the optimal investment and in such runs any other DB unit ends up being trash, but then we've taken out of consideration the subset of runs where Jill may not be used due to player choice. Regarding the specific benchmarks, Volug's level can reach the mid-20s by part 4, and the investment to take him to SS strike is similar to the investment to build an uber Jill. The only reason that Jill gets a pass and Volug may not is that we've determined Jill to be the most optimal unit.
Can't agree on micaiah that low. She has big flaws sure. But she one taps with thani for the whole part 1 any kind of knight or cavalier including bosses. Also gives A support to sothe right away. Also bosses do not exist in part 1 outside of the laguz because she one shots all of them with thani and 100 accuracy. Feels like she deserves B.
I don't have the original vid anymore unfortnitely but I will want to do a rereview with dondon at some point since he's changed his opinions a bit since.
@@Mekkkah oh that's entirely fair I was just curious. I think a decent amount of units would be relocated, I just enjoy having the videos on in the background when I work out and was wondering. Thank you for replying though
Slap an A rank support with Haar and you can pretty much send these lovebirds into enemy backline and watch a slaughterfest, no matter how shitty and rng screwed lvl ups your Jill has gotten. Still I find using her lame cause she still feels like a second less tanky Haar and pisses me off how Mekkah has obsession promoting her into goddess status cause he always pumps her full of statboosters and transfer bonuses.
@@Cyborg609 haha yeah I can see her relying solely on haar and stat boosters being the reason why she's top tier supposedly. I've always given up on Jill before the end of part 1 so maybe I just have to keep trying with her.
@@albertonolasco9721 I feel that, after this video I actually tried using Jill again, and she actually did great, especially getting +2 stats to some in radiant dawn, she got my top 5. 2nd place I believe.
All this discussion about taking investment away from Jill reinforces my belief that Jill is too high. Investing into her isn't free, obviously. And if you don't go all-in on it, she can definitely suffer for it. She has worse availability than Haar, she isn't amazing out of the box like Haar is, and at her best she's no better than him. There should really be more than one tier between them.
I disagree with that, sure she takes more investment but her class alone makes it worth it. Trying to play maps like 3-12 and especially 3-6 without a good Jill takes so damn long. When playing faster you want to see which units can reach enemies first, and which units could get to a point to clear out groups with a bit of a stat increase. Jill is miles ahead of everyone else in both regards. Seriously, just try playing 3-6 with Nolan as your carry instead, it’s a nightmare. Besides, it’s not like Jill is dead weight before all the investment kicks in. I’d argue she’s better than everyone besides the prepromotes in 1-6 onward, and since she can keep up with them better she’s a natural exp target that you don’t really need to slow down to give kills to
@@Bunnymafia8150 Your argument is tangential to the point. First of all, she can be better than Nolan and still a lot worse than Haar. Second, why use Nolan as your carry when you can use Zihark and/or Volug. Third, movement is not that high a priority in 3-6 and 3-12. Those maps prioritize enemy phase combat, and the latter also has Tauroneo. Obviously Jill is still good and relevant on these maps, but she isn't making anything like the impact that Haar does. Haar is amazing in maps like 3-3 and 3-4 where his combination of flight and invincibility is irreplaceable, but Jill doesn't offer invincibility and the map objectives don't play as well to her strengths. And then of course there's the availability difference.
I know you guys hate bow users and love mounted units, but Shinon behind Oscar? Really? Shinon has objectively better bases AND growths than Oscar, they're comparable or arguably better than Mia's and she's top of B tier. He also starts out at a higher level at the same time, so same availability and less investment needed. You could promote Shinon without using him once and still have a competent Part 4 unit. Is no enemy phase really bad enough to put him below someone who's all around worse? He even has utility in places Oscar doesn't, particularly any map with ledges, walls, or terrain penalties, of which there are plenty in RD. I'm not fanboying and saying he's S tier or even top of C, but definitely better than Oscar
@@Meku-cq6hh yeah but Oscar cant player phase or enemy phase aside from some chip. Shinon may only be able to player phase, but he's an instant delete button, I think an excellent player phase unit is still worth more than a bad combat unit with horse utility
I'd personally suggest that the paragon that Astrid gives to the team for exactly 0 investment is a significant and worthwhile contribution, enough to take her out of F tier. You might say that it's not Astrid the unit that's using paragon, it's just a skill, but without Astrid, that skill doesn't exist, so I feel that it should count as her contribution.
@@liesandvideotape I'd be apprehensive with Meg being dead weight, and as I believe, Mekkah has mentioned that they don't count innate skills something to a favor for a character. He just thinks of it like an inventory item.
The difference between what unbalanced but fun is vs unbalanced but not fun is that the former you are having a good time steamrolling because it's interactive and satisfying, the latter is simplistic or not very interactive and unsatisfying. Think of it like a game you can make extremely easy in many ways because everything is viable vs a game that only has one correct answer to complete and once you know said formula, there is nothing else
Where do you think he should be placed? I essentially required him as my solo unit for the DB sections, so I have a heart for him being higher than D myself.
@@Furen His availability is the best of any good unit in part 1, and if you give him paragon as a sword master the investment is not ridiculous. Paragon’d Edward can get like 10-12 levels in 3-6 alone. He always does a job for me in the tower, even on hard mode. I’d say A-, but maybe B or B+ is more objective.
So, is anyone going to mention that there's no Leanne on the list, or was this discussed in the initial tier list video? No Mordecai, Lethe, or Muarim either by the looks of things. ... Man, this cast is unreasonably huge.
I think Renning is far from E or F tier, because I would consider anyone in those tiers "making the game harder to play when they are fielded," and Renning does his job as a "Chonky promoted cavalier" admirably. Also he has a moustache Kurthnaga as a support unit isn't bad at all either, really like his skill Edward and Leonardo have been nothing but liabilities for me, and I think Micaiah's Sacrifice utility is good enough to get her into lower B tier
The problem with renning is his availability and his speed stat. He is literally only avalible for the tower where he is competing for 1 of 10 slots. Compared to the royal laguz and giffca that you get around the same time, he is incredibly weak. His base speed of 29 is really bad as it won't even double the generals in the tower. His str at 31 isn't even that good as most cav units will have that much. He would probably only be good in a 0% run but even then, he is significantly weaker than the other units you would have just gotten. Kurthnaga's night tide isn't particularly useful it's rare that 5 def or 5 res makes much of a difference. Blood tide and white pool are both significantly more useful.
Leonardo is surprisingly useful if you know how to use him right. He's very easy to utilize due to high bow might and hit rate that allow Leo to chip very effectively and he is able to double untransformed laguz with the Lughnasadh. Crossbows are underrated for people who hasn't utilized it properly, Leo with Aqqar and affinity bonus can actually transition into Part 4 quite amiably. He still won't do a lot of damage, but you don't need him to, because how Part 4 allows you to field a lot of people, at base with little investments, he is worth the deploy in the Hawk Army, a lot of terrains that allows him to chip and be safe, and 4-E is a pretty good place for almost anyone.
Yeah, I decided to use Edward's skill to help Micaiah since it is counter productive and I mix her with Nolan so she doesn't get hit but if she does "be one hell of hit" Or give it to ZIhark
I’ve played radiant dawn probably 25+ times and I’m embarrassed to admit...I don’t know what the strike rank for laguz units.... Does it increase their damage or something? When talking about volug, they bring up his strike rank and I’m not sure why it matters...
Laguz have weapon ranks just like beorc. When their weapon rank levels up, their mt goes up and sometimes their hit rate goes up. serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/inventory/strikes/
Can we talk about how stupid the Dawn brigade Is so bad,like yeah Jill Is good but she can go out (you just hate yourself or care about the story if you do that)same thing with zihark,i know Sothe Is good but he Is not a good EXP invesment,the only three that feel like a good EXP invesment are:Nolan, Edward and micahia but they are not like super big power houses if you train them they are just fine and feel good using them,the other ones are just a dissapointment or complete trash, Leonardo and Aran are like fine but as we could see with the Aran of Mekkah he Is just there he doesn't do anything amazing,and Leonardo Is an archer ehhh yeah archers and he doesn't have very good growths also he got the best personal weapon in the Dawn brigade and he still feels meh,and the big troll of Fiona and Meg, Horse and can shove Sothe, WHAT ELSE YOU CAN ASK?,oh yeah volug i mean Laguz are weird but he has good stats and he gains EXP a Little low but yeah volug Is cool
When the two smart kids in the class disagree over the answers to the question
I agree with dondon and even while casual I still say Micaiah is better than Laura for the set up kills for chip damage for shit units to get them up. Her ability to switch between healing *which is fine because we get like 8 vulenaries or 10 herbs* and both nuke/chip damage on the fly comes in clutch a lot for me. I think her support with Sothe is a harzard and while ok, I argue its better to make her more dodgy with support with Nolan. The Dawn Brigade get a lot of Earth Support so at the very least get rid of her support with Sothe because she won't survive and doing that will help make it since she does provide a little bit of avoid as well and damage. I did Nolan because Nolan has a really hard time and 90% their combination = death because Nolan could tank and Micaiah could chip down units with high def. low res. I think Fiona i you're training Micaiah can be nice because she'll give another Thani tome in Info which is very nice because I legit broke it in like...part 3. Also the whole force deployed wheras Laura is an extra slot out of 10 means you're giving up a slot for a better unit...just for Laura in the end game which sounds like a horrible idea
Where the duck is Gatrie??
@@mobius4247 bruh
I'm mad at Dondon on the internet for having opinions
To err is human
@@Kryptnyt To forgive, Divine.
1:06:30 the indignation on that "NO" is some of the most impassioned I've ever heard dondon
This Mekkah/DonDon Duo Unit looks very strong. They will shift the metagame, I can feel it.
Silver Lance+ Duo
Where the duck is Gatrie??!
@@mobius4247 he wasn’t tiered yet; there were a couple characters they left off to put where they wanted.
Devdan/Jagen duo lance unit, uses a forged wingspear
Mekkah over here exposing Dondon's miniskirt fetish.
Oh my goddddd. A dondon151 tier list. I must get my chisel and stone as these must be the commandments
“Hello Casuals”
People using LTC strategies in casual play to ease the difficulty: “looks at maddening hunting by daybreak/reunion at dawn menacingly”
The first time I resorted to using LTC-adjacent strategies was in FE12 H2, when I just couldn't deal with the constant reinforcements in the endgame. The only way for me to beat the chapters was to play it as fast as possible to make it before reinforcements could catch up, and rig critical hits against Hardin and Medeus.
@@FiboSai FE12 is basically "LTC the map or fuck you, die"
what is LTC strategies
@@jamesphillabaum1970 "Low Turn Count". Exactly what it means, strategies that allow you to beat the map in the least amount of turns you can manage.
I almost nver do that, but i sometimes used 0%growth strats because "i for sure have the stats for that".
I appreciate these vids. I always come away having learned a bit more about how to best utilize each unit, which helps me improve as a player. Keep em' coming Mekkah!
17:20 to add some context, average boyd will only cap hp at lv 18. Nothing else will cap until he is teir 3, lv 14.
In general, Radiant Dawn warrants a .5 system and justifies it by being what it is. I've been making my own unit scores of all Radiant Dawn characters, as in, individually as much as possible according to my hateful 50 playthroughs of Radiant Dawn, having used everyone but Kyza. Everyone will look bad compared to Haar obviously, so I do feel like sometimes separating him in comparison to other units would be nice when it comes to variables like investments and unique positions, weighing if it's detrimental to put this investment item over him, like Dondon said, the speedwing is such a big item for Haar that giving it to Boyd is certainly not to his titulage. The thing with Boyd is, he shares investment pool to units that are better than him and can become active much earlier and fulfills the same role.
One very inane factor that sets Boyd above than anyone else even Nolan who is in the same class as him with the same stat caps, even if it is superfluous, is Boyd's fire affinity. Supported with a water, dark, or another fire affinity unit and with the aid of the Urvan and the two blood dragons, he is the only Beorc unit to be able to one-round Auras at cap. Though, again, superfluous since it doesn't really make you that much faster. However, anyone that can double auras can use a brave weapon to 4RKO Auras with supports or not, except Lucia since she would be missing a point of strength even with a +2 damage affinity. But the really big problem is how Boyd needs SO much investments to get going. I've done the blossom Boyd 99 exp every chapter and if he misses one speed level up, it's a travesty, but he does caps stats faster, so realistically, he will get to doubling range for the rest of the game by 3-11, since by then, he has capped stats (due to blossom, his averages lets him cap a stat on level 19 which is HP and possibly strength, ouch) to bring him to Warrior 27 speed cap and you have a super BEXP dump available from 3-9 and 3-10's BEXP reward.
I think an overrated part of Reavers is that they deal more damage than any other class, aside from the usual Generals in 4-E-1, there's not a lot for them to one-round, not like they're the only who can ORKO unless you're playing Radiant Counter on 1-2 range cause Boyd can one-round with a hand axe when he reaches 35+ strength and it makes little difference if they deal high damage against auras since unless the aforementioned Boyd fire affinity, you're still going to use another unit to kill them, although, it is nice that the dragons can chip in since they're going to die to one I suppose, doesn't do a lot. And the other chapter in late game for them show off their triceps is 4-E-3, where they will definitely not ORKO Red Dragons, funny though that they can use dragonfoe crossbows.
3-10 is the time where enemies starts to get 21 speed, particularly Halberdiers and Warriors. Everyone else still are pretty little shite. If somehow you got to reach Oscar and Neph to their cap of 25 strength, with a maxed might forge, they can ORKO non-general units easily, however, starting from 3-10 as I said when they gain that one wink of defense that they actually need a damage affinity or a +damage coin forge to ORKO, but since Oscar actually needs to promote to double Halberdiers and Warriors, he will get 2 strength upon promotion and Neph will get three cause Radiant Dawn is misandrist that way, and they will continue to ORKO into Part 4, Oscar needs an easy point of speed though.
Kieran has a major issue going into Part 4, where the problem already originates from his joining chapter. His speed cap of 23 severely hurts him more than one may think. Kieran has a problem that he shares with Gatrie, only worse. Due to the (M) Axe Paladin speed cap and his atrocious speed growth, upon promotion from a capped speed in Tier 2, he doesn't even double the Paladins in 4-P, and this is an army you don't want to be a mounted unit in because it goes into the desert chapter, yet it has the lowest speed threshold. So not only you must get Kieran to 23 speed somehow (speedwing gets him there, but again, that's a big investment item) before Part 3 ends, he will still need a lot of training in Part 4 upon promotion and only gets to enjoy doubling range in the two little maps he has in Part 3. Coupled by his non-existent availability in Part 3, this is a glaring weakness worth penalizing a big amount, however, C tier is fine, was not saying he need be moved.
Investing properly is important in this game. I think of Mia lesser nowadays when you are able to promote units in a good timing, due to lack of solid 1-2 range weapon cause she can't get forge wind edges. Soren can realistically cap speed by 3-7 or 3-8 and once promoted, he will ORKO everything, yes, everything including Generals. The fact that Soren can do this earlier than Boyd with relatively less investments if you think the free skill book from 2-2 is cheap like I do, then he can cap speed early as long as you manage investments, and I'm not talking about gimping other important units to the ground. However, now he will need two/three more speed for Part 4 to be relatively valuable again. It's important to talk about transitions because certain T2 caps is just really bad going into Part 4. Lmao Brom with his 22 speed cap and 30% speed growth.
In the end, I still think this needs revision, Tormod is too high and Zihark too low, if Mia is up there, how come Zihark who is much stronger respectively to their armies and has a better innate skill, and is able to dodge Laguz very well with a double Earth support that low?
I think it's fair to rate units in this game differently as the game progresses just because the game is so railroaded in which units you can use reliably
I think the argument is that Zikhark still requires quite a bit and Tiger Laguz have pretty annoying bulk defense.
@@nah4467 But he still has contribution and will get there even quite a bit, that quite a bit is still shallow enough that Zihark's Part 1 contribution is still solid. People say this as if Mia doesn't need investments to get going, she still needs to get to cap strength somehow and her subpar defense that unable her to enemy phase, almost ever, and adept proccing is a lukewarm way to make a unit better, I consider it, but never above nor equal to units that ORKO.
And not really, Tiger Laguz are bulky, but not bulky enough to be not get 4RKO by Zihark with a brave sword. The enemies will have 10 hit rate on Resolve Zihark with a double Earth A-support further mitigated by a +10 avoid reed tile, even if they are bulky, it doesn't matter when they're not hitting him.
I don’t know why hearing dondon says “casuals” makes me laugh as much as it does
RADIANT DAWN FACT OF THE EPISOD-
Oh wait
Do you have a list of facts ready or do you search for one every time a new episode comes out?
Question, has there been any facts related to supports in this game?
@@hajoeijgenraam295 I've had a list I've made in a day at the beginning, but I then did a deathless Ironman on my end and added stuff that's worth saying along the way, things I forgot or that are interesting to note. I'm also doing research online as to what to say but most come from experience over my 20+ playthroughs of this game
So yeah, I have a basic list that I add to every once in a while. Right now I have more facts left than the amounts of episode the series should take so I might just go over the more interesting ones and leave the others unmentionned. Or I might mention them, I don't really know what to do with them yet
@@gachalibra9243 Not yet, supports are... bland and boring in this game. There's not much to say about them.
I have one planned out for future episodes, and it's one of the spiciest fact so far so stay tuned! I'm most likely going to use it by the next 3 episodes
@@zerima34 I think I know what it is
13:54 Ogma died. Ogma died and you're acting like nothing happened. SMH
Hearing you guys talk about Pelleas & his staff utility makes me think, maybe a more sophisticated style of tiering FE10 would be a 2-dimensional one in which units are horizontally sorted by *niche* across the x-axis, as opposed to the "1.5-dimensional" style which TierListMaker uses (0.5th dimension = units sorted within tiers).
I just spent an inordinate amount of time reading dondon’s reddit arguments so this is a treat
Lol I loved that serenes forest tier list. I was surprised that lots of people loved Rolf as much as me and said he was good.
I always feel like Sanaki was done so dirty, being given Light magic to use instead of Staves when it's more or less functionally the same as Wind magic save Nosferatu (only Wind Magic's probably slightly better since Sanaki doesn't really get a chance to use Light magic against Dark tome users because of how few there are, and doesn't get to use it against a boss like Izuka). The Rudol Gem she gets is also kind of a slap in the face, being given a very noteworthy boost in Defense when there's only the very last chapter left so it doesn't really matter too terribly much. Maybe if it was given earlier before the Tower maybe and gave a bonus to a more useful stat for her like Magic and/or Speed for her it'd be better.
Sanaki can bless a light tome for Lehran, very epic.
Sanaki was done dirty for her speed along with all the mages in the game
Yeah, the only way I've gotten much use out of her is paragon & a forged thunder tome for the dragon chapter. I wish she could double more too yeah
I enjoyed your discussion about types of tier lists. It brings up the same issue with all tier lists: what is the standard for classifying characters? As dondon151 stated, an LTC tier list won't look like this one, nor will it look like one meant to determine efficiency for a normal playthrough. And even those will likely differ between game difficulties, too.
It would be interesting if we could draft a more objective classification system (assigning points to a character for advantages and the like) and see how the tier lists turn out then.
at start of vid i see Boyd in B tier and Shinon and Oscar in C tier.... Pretty sus here...
The screenshot of the fe10 tier list thread unearthed very ancient memories
dude, I'm only 2 minutes in and I gotta say I'm so happy you guys mentioned the giant FE10 tier list thread on SF lol. that thread was so much fun
Whenever serenes nostalgia is brought up it warms my heart.
Makalov should be the worst because he's the worst
I think splitting C & D into C+/- and D+/- would be a good idea, given how crowded those tiers are. Or maybe split B and mostly move people up, leaving D unsplit.
So, when is the D-F tier playthrough coming? I bet someone wants to see you maximize your suffering
So you're just not going to play part 3 then?
Great content! Let's get DonDon back soon!
7:24 The one thing I would mention about Kyza is that he can actually ORKO mages in Part 3 at base.
It ain't much but like...it's better than half of the Greil Mercenaries tbh.
U mean dawn brigade?
The guy on the thumbnail isn't Tauroneo, its Dondon's face reveal
I think the biggest split in RD community is many have played different versions.
Wouldn't another point for C tier with Ilanya be that she has utility in terms of passing items down from the dawn to the greil. Even someone as casual as me used that advice and past down a few things.
They usually don't like associating these types of gameplay attributes to characters. Otherwise things like starting inventory, base convo rewards, and other non "in battle" aspects have to be considered and that can get messy.
You don't have to actually use her to get that benefit.
@@gameboyn64 maybe not, but if you get Illyana killed then you can’t do it anymore. I’d argue that makes it her contribution despite her not having to do anything, you absolutely need her to take advantage of that trick.
@@Bunnymafia8150 that's actually an argument used against ilyana in a lot of tier lists. The fact that you are incentivised not to use her in battle is considered a detriment to her own viability.
I think talking about Leonardo you have to bring up the fact that he gets his bow in part 3 giving him a +5 speed which is huge
This is gonna be good
Oliver is E Tier fo "beaut-E-full".
Someone is liking the skyward sword ost mekkah. Zelda playthrough confirmed!!!!!!!
Ah yeah, I got baited by the Bara Thumbnail
Lucia higher than Brom? At least Brom can tank for Part 2, especially considering you don't have a ton of cavs or fliers for 2-1 or 2-2. 2-E is a fast win anyways. Lucia cannot do anything imo except kill people in 2-2. She'll still take decent damage on that map and can get killed if she gets unlucky. This is more of a lower Lucia thing rather than a raise Brom. Gareth and Ena should be higher than her too. Blood Tide on people you have to bring to Tower/Join in Tower.
Nah Brom is awful. 2-1 is a map with literally 2 units so it's hard to really evaluate him in that, but his offense is terrible because he never doubles and he starts with the dumbest inventory and low weapon ranks. In 2-2 his mobility and offense are horrific and there's not much intrinsic value to tanking. Lucia's pretty important in 2-2 because she's the only way that you're ORKOing a lot of enemies. When she comes back in 4-2 she could take a Master Crown and still ORKO stuff with a maxed Silver Sword critforge.
2-1 is hard to evaluate as dondon said, funnily enough, Neph with transfers is better than Brom in that map because she is able to double the boss with a strength and speed transfer, making Brom even more useless than he was. Lucia is very useful in 2-2 and tanking isn't worth anything if they aren't dealing enough damage to justify tanking, Brom does not 3RKO, his kills will either be helped by Mordecai/Lethe/Nealuchi if you even intend to do that. Brom is usable for one map and that's it, and that one map with transfers talk is even more redundant because he loses the tanking aspect when Neph's offensive are really good against the boss, because she has two chances to proc wrath.
And if you intend to use Lucia, her bases makes up for her Part 4 performance against Brom, having used Brom from Part 2 to Tower, I can tell you this, he is not worth the training (obviously) and Lucia actually has ease and potential since her base of 27 speed allows her to double in Part 4, so with a silver sword forge, her offense is actually already better than Brom, even whatever training that tantamount to Brom's promotion. (lol 22 speed cap)
@@DD151 Yes I realised that Brom may not be better as I don't like investing in Lucia or giving her a nice forge. Would Gareth and Ena not rank higher than Lucia. You're forced to bring Ena and Gareth is recruited in tower. They have blood tide. That's all I need to say I think
The second I saw I got pinged on discord that this was posted I knew I had to watch it all the way through.
I really hope to see dondon come back for games like FE6 and FE7. His comments have been what I watch out for when a new episode came out.
One thing that always gets under my skin in Radiant Dawn is how much higher utility units with at least 34 speed have than other units for just the last couple of chapters. Suddenly, Haar, who can carry the entire rest of the game, because very mediocre at the end. Same for any male paladins.
By the end of the game, you mean the last map, 4-E-5? 4-E-1 and 4-E-3 doesn't have a high speed benchmark, 4-E-1 having 23-27 speed Generals and 4-E-3 with 12 speed Dragons, and 4-E-2 and 4-E-4 are jokes, capable of one turning. You can hand Haar the blessed brave axe to let him do solid damage since he can canto in-out Ena and Gareth, however, if Jill is in there, she can actually 4RKO Auras on her own, anyone with 35ish strength and 34 speed can 4RKO Auras with brave weapons.
@@lofnforseti8447 E4 and E5. Yeah you can 1 turn E4, but I don't think it's fair to just toss it aside because of that. I think you should judge units based on a set of feasible strategies, else evaluating units just simplifies to an LTC tier list.
@@fangiscool1 E4 has 28 speed spirits and there's 30. So be selective and Haar can double, I believe it's the Fire spirits, or maybe the Thunder ones or both. Again, it's not that worth penalizing over even if it's not an LTC tier list.
I'm not gonna argue against the fact that some of the caps in this game are just dumb (or that the franchise's tendency to hand you last second crutch units that render the units you actually care about obsolete is often annoying), but the 34 speed benchmark is only really a big deal on the last map. It's also somewhat complicated by the fact that anyone who knows about the 34 speed threshold in advance probably also already knows Ashera's pattern, so if you have to go one more turn with her than you otherwise would, it's really not a big deal. (And if one turn is a huge deal, you're curbstomping with royals anyway.) A unit you otherwise leaned on up to that point like Haar or Titania can still either put in some work cantoing in and out of blood tide or go on spirit patrol depending on how fast you're trying to finish things off.
I think the exact opposite. Most FE games are too lenient whit stats benchmarks, wich lead to units like harr becoming hilariously overpowered simply because they have good enought stats and a wyvern.
Make the enemies of the final 5 maps too fast to be doubled by Paladins and Wyvern lords at their caps and you pretty much fix FE class balance, as things like swordmaster speed or berserker atk become relevant and not overkill.
my thoughts on oscar were about the same as yall's UNTIL i gave him a bow with his T3 promote. brave bow oscar (i dont remember if you can forge them) becomes can kill a bulk of enemies reliably
I don’t really know about Titania being that high, particularly above Ike, who is just absolutely overpowering in this game. Is she better than her closest comparable in Oscar? Absolutely. Is she one of the few characters worth bringing to endgame that isn’t mandatory or a laguz royal or whatever? Sure. But she otherwise has those same usability limitations that are touched on here in regard to mounted units, and isn’t quite as flexible or powerful enough in some of the tower portions, in my experience.
The only limitations Titania has is 3-7, she works fine in 3-4 due to the enemies on the left path and the thunder mages on the left ledge, and she is the only one, barring Haar, that can kill with a hand axe with decent accuracy and is able to ORKO. TItania is extremely powerful, even in the tower. She has access to the Hammer and Wrymslayer for the two maps that can be prolonged, 4-E-1 and 4-E-3, and before that, she can very easily be promoted by 3-5, where with an A-support damage affinity, with a forged steel axe, she is capable of ORKOing Generals already. She's massively powerful.
What I don't agree with this list is Ike being lower, because Ike is actually stronger than Titania in the first two maps of Part 3 and is still always almost on par with Titania, even if he is Tier 2 and less investment needs cause he got the bases. He is able to do work with maps that Titania will not be in like 3-7, and by then, he is your 2nd strongest unit below Haar. So yeah, I do believe Ike should be higher.
idk either, she never doubled for me and I don't know why she couldn't.
@@nah4467 An easy way to counter that is transferring the speedwing from Part 1 to Part 3 since there's no good candidate for that, unless you're 0% growths Tauroneo speedwing crown. Titania still has an average speed growth and she only needs to reach 24 to double for most of Part 3, and luckily enough, some maps has lower speed benchmark like 3-2 and 3-5. She's just Haar-lite, with more workable stats.
@@nah4467 same I’ve never had a good Titania, every play through normal or hard falls off second half part 3 damage and speed are hurting, everyones experiences in these games will always differ I think that’s why they give you a large cast.
Putting Leonardo in the same tier as Edward and Aran is a crime
One is a knight with STR and DEF
One is a myrm with STR and SPD
One is an archer with none of the three
Uncountered chip damage. Thats all
@@edwardking9359 Yeah exactly: That's all.
There are many pisspoor early game archers in Fire Emblem: Rolf, Gordin, Virion, Wolt, Wil... and Leonardo. Each and everyone of them proves that the ability to do minor chip damage at range is far from enough to salvage a poor unit.
Leonardo can't counterattack 95% of enemies and is prone to get absolutely dunked on by the many foes that can double him and his low defenses.
Edward and Aran can hold the line with some investment, but Leonardo will stay poor no matter how much your pour into him
@@Anonymos185 Just position him in a way where he can't be attacked, and along with all other archers you can definitely get decent use out of them
@@edwardking9359 I'm sorry, but that's just never going to be as effective as simply having another competitive unit on your team. Every archer that deals a bit of medicore damage on your 10-man squad is a missing cavalier or mage or myrmidon that could have killed that same foe. Every foe that the archer fails to kill is going to be free to target your weakest units on enemy phase, and then it won't matter if that archer took damage or not on your turn, your healer or mage is dead anyway. You can get away with using bad archers on low difficulties, but most players will do a loooot more resetting on the tougher difficulties by using these goombas. Besides, this is Radiant Dawn. It's absolutely SWIMMING in 1-2 range lances and swords for units like Aran and Edward to use, which invalidates your entire point of range giving Leo an advantage. He can practically only attack at 2 range. The others can do both 1 and 2 range from a very early point in the game.d
@@Anonymos185 If you're not ORKOing every single enemy with every single unit you're fielding, an archer is always going to be a good choice. Reliable chip damage is more important than yet another front line unit that takes damage every time they attack.
You guys forgot to rank 3-13 Archer
Is there another part to the RD tier list review? I can't find any anywhere but I thought you said somewhere that there was more parts?
Where’s Leanne? EDIT: just got to that part of the video lol
Coming back to this after returning to my RD HM playthrough and I've found Leo to be a lot more helpful than I remembered, even totally untrained. I'm using Jill, Zihark, and Nolan from 3-6 and 3-12. Leo provided chip in 3-6, was useless in 12, and shot hawks/provided chip while blocking a ledge. I master sealed Aran and tried to use him a tiny bit and when i saw he got doubled and murdered i gave up...so untrained Leo is a lot more useful than the other two, which I'd never found before
Let's be real here, the D in D tier just stands for Dawn Brigade.
I'm calling dondon your co conspirator
Stefan s tier
To best use shinnon you give him disarm and a low damage bow and have Heather go for the steal
As spokesman of the Church of Macaiah Worshippers and Simps we demand that Macaiah moves above Laura. This video is blaspheme. The Maiden of Dawn deserves better rating. She wields the legendary Thani tome, effective against cavalry AND armor (take that Lysithea) and is the original healer with her legendary Sacrifice skill. She is the only one that can access the infinite XP glitch, the sacrifice and heal strat in which she blesses Laura and herself with free XP. She can easily gain access to abilities like purge and physic. She also supports her lover, the Legendary assasin Sothe. Who does Laura support? The scrub Aran. The Chad Macaiah is a better late game unit than the Virgin Laura. Macaiah is better in all stats, even ones that don't matter like luck. Macaiah even has the ability "Summon." She can spawn the Black Knight, the one only character ever to cuck Crimea's Hero Ike, the one who has the power to fell gods. Macaiah is easily S tier waifu and easily above Laura. All those who disagree shall perish and face eternal damnation. Long Live Our Maiden.
eh, just give her a support with Nolan, now she can handle Front lines by being a bit more dodgy. Also give her Edwards Wrath. I think her support with Sothe while nice does not do her any good as a unit or really Sothe too much
@@nah4467 ah yes another great point as the main character required earlier she has more time to build supports with the others as it is their duty to protect our fair maiden
@@flight_knight_ Lern to spell her name first.
Who is this dondon guy? Someone we should know? I have 0% fate in his knowledge xD j/k
38:15 I have to disagree about Volug being on the same level as Nailah:
- Getting him to SS strike by the start of Part 4 takes significant investment, to the point of hampering other DB units
- He only needs a few levels to hit AS thresholds, but his Exp Gain is so slow when transformed that at a 40% growth it's actually much harder than it seems
- Laguz gauge is still a major issue, considering him getting hit from 2-range will drain about half his gauge. He ends up only being able to attack on PP about half the time.
Good thing we placed Volug below Nailah, then! The whole "unit is worse because they hamper others" argument is always a little iffy because in a way it is circular. A unit needs investment to be optimal, therefore it's optimal to invest everything in that unit and no one else, to the detriment of everyone else. In practical terms we agree that Jill is the optimal investment and in such runs any other DB unit ends up being trash, but then we've taken out of consideration the subset of runs where Jill may not be used due to player choice.
Regarding the specific benchmarks, Volug's level can reach the mid-20s by part 4, and the investment to take him to SS strike is similar to the investment to build an uber Jill. The only reason that Jill gets a pass and Volug may not is that we've determined Jill to be the most optimal unit.
if you give him resolve and beast killer in the DB episode. you can level him and his strike realllly quickly.
Can't agree on micaiah that low.
She has big flaws sure. But she one taps with thani for the whole part 1 any kind of knight or cavalier including bosses. Also gives A support to sothe right away.
Also bosses do not exist in part 1 outside of the laguz because she one shots all of them with thani and 100 accuracy.
Feels like she deserves B.
I know a long time has passed, but is the second part of this going to be re-uploaded at some point or is it forever lost to the aether?
I don't have the original vid anymore unfortnitely but I will want to do a rereview with dondon at some point since he's changed his opinions a bit since.
@@Mekkkah oh that's entirely fair I was just curious. I think a decent amount of units would be relocated, I just enjoy having the videos on in the background when I work out and was wondering. Thank you for replying though
Honestly, I've never had a good Jill, ever.
Slap an A rank support with Haar and you can pretty much send these lovebirds into enemy backline and watch a slaughterfest, no matter how shitty and rng screwed lvl ups your Jill has gotten.
Still I find using her lame cause she still feels like a second less tanky Haar and pisses me off how Mekkah has obsession promoting her into goddess status cause he always pumps her full of statboosters and transfer bonuses.
@@Cyborg609 haha yeah I can see her relying solely on haar and stat boosters being the reason why she's top tier supposedly. I've always given up on Jill before the end of part 1 so maybe I just have to keep trying with her.
She has had a lot of travesty level ups in my casual runs, just never getting enough to survive or one round much come part 3.
I feel Jill is frail and tends to miss attacks quite often. But i've seen people saying she's good but mine never was haha
@@albertonolasco9721 I feel that, after this video I actually tried using Jill again, and she actually did great, especially getting +2 stats to some in radiant dawn, she got my top 5. 2nd place I believe.
Casually waiting for Meg and Lyre to be God tier
Astrid goes from being one of the best in PoR to one of the most mediocre in RD
Feels bad man
Ilyana is the best units because she gets the coolest tome in radiant dawn Rexbolt
dondon is fucking hilarious
Fiona over meg? THE HORSE POWER
As long as dondon agrees that Rolf should remain in D tier then I disagree with his opinions.
Shinon they called good for a few chapters then drop him. For rolf you take away the good chapters and make him pure investment
Rolf is just Shinon without the “good at the start” part
I feel that yeah, he is useful but only after investment
All this discussion about taking investment away from Jill reinforces my belief that Jill is too high. Investing into her isn't free, obviously. And if you don't go all-in on it, she can definitely suffer for it. She has worse availability than Haar, she isn't amazing out of the box like Haar is, and at her best she's no better than him. There should really be more than one tier between them.
I disagree with that, sure she takes more investment but her class alone makes it worth it. Trying to play maps like 3-12 and especially 3-6 without a good Jill takes so damn long. When playing faster you want to see which units can reach enemies first, and which units could get to a point to clear out groups with a bit of a stat increase. Jill is miles ahead of everyone else in both regards. Seriously, just try playing 3-6 with Nolan as your carry instead, it’s a nightmare. Besides, it’s not like Jill is dead weight before all the investment kicks in. I’d argue she’s better than everyone besides the prepromotes in 1-6 onward, and since she can keep up with them better she’s a natural exp target that you don’t really need to slow down to give kills to
@@Bunnymafia8150 Your argument is tangential to the point. First of all, she can be better than Nolan and still a lot worse than Haar. Second, why use Nolan as your carry when you can use Zihark and/or Volug. Third, movement is not that high a priority in 3-6 and 3-12. Those maps prioritize enemy phase combat, and the latter also has Tauroneo. Obviously Jill is still good and relevant on these maps, but she isn't making anything like the impact that Haar does. Haar is amazing in maps like 3-3 and 3-4 where his combination of flight and invincibility is irreplaceable, but Jill doesn't offer invincibility and the map objectives don't play as well to her strengths. And then of course there's the availability difference.
Btw, what's the background music?
It's mostly if not entirely zelda music
Nasir and Ena who? Also i cant believe youve done this to my girl Astrid
Did the part 2 video never get back up after the phishing incident?
It got copyright struck :(
ahh sorry to hear! thanks for letting me know @@Mekkkah
Aw bummer I was just looking for it now lol @@Mekkkah
Finally, some good fucking elitistism
OMG it's a tier list
It really hurts seeing astrid in f tier they really killed her in rd
She went from the best archer in PoR to an unholy gross unit :(
He forgot leanne
What about Naesala?
I know you guys hate bow users and love mounted units, but Shinon behind Oscar? Really? Shinon has objectively better bases AND growths than Oscar, they're comparable or arguably better than Mia's and she's top of B tier. He also starts out at a higher level at the same time, so same availability and less investment needed. You could promote Shinon without using him once and still have a competent Part 4 unit. Is no enemy phase really bad enough to put him below someone who's all around worse? He even has utility in places Oscar doesn't, particularly any map with ledges, walls, or terrain penalties, of which there are plenty in RD. I'm not fanboying and saying he's S tier or even top of C, but definitely better than Oscar
@@Meku-cq6hh yeah but Oscar cant player phase or enemy phase aside from some chip. Shinon may only be able to player phase, but he's an instant delete button, I think an excellent player phase unit is still worth more than a bad combat unit with horse utility
I'd personally suggest that the paragon that Astrid gives to the team for exactly 0 investment is a significant and worthwhile contribution, enough to take her out of F tier. You might say that it's not Astrid the unit that's using paragon, it's just a skill, but without Astrid, that skill doesn't exist, so I feel that it should count as her contribution.
This is a great point, Meg is literally dead weight while at least Astrid gives you a really useful skill.
@@liesandvideotape I'd be apprehensive with Meg being dead weight, and as I believe, Mekkah has mentioned that they don't count innate skills something to a favor for a character. He just thinks of it like an inventory item.
Things like inventory (hi, Amelia's speedwing!) generally aren't counted in tier lists.
Starting inventory / removable skills aren't credited because then we'd say that Tormod is A tier for having Celerity or something silly like that.
Y’all are sleepin on rolf’s 70% strength growth
75% actually
@@zerima34 oh yea that’s what I meant
Yeah he should be at least one tier up with the potential 3 range as well
Dude Gatrie isnt even on the tier list lol
Legit searched 10x figured they couldn't have possibly skipped Gatrie during the Tauroneo discussion to see where they are relative to each other.
Justice for Aran, not actually a bad unit
Not always bad but high variance. Your avatar looks like Guy Fieri Emblem
hes a good tank but if you dont boost his speed he gets wiped by mages
Tormod seems high, from what I remember he is never around.
He is good in 1-7, 1-8, and 1-e.
Where’s Leanne and Naesala?
I was playing RD again while this got uploaded lol amazing game love how unbalanced it is in a fun way... instead of FE6 where it’s kinda boring
What's the difference between boring unbalanced and fun unbalanced?
The difference between what unbalanced but fun is vs unbalanced but not fun is that the former you are having a good time steamrolling because it's interactive and satisfying, the latter is simplistic or not very interactive and unsatisfying. Think of it like a game you can make extremely easy in many ways because everything is viable vs a game that only has one correct answer to complete and once you know said formula, there is nothing else
Where’s ma boy Gatrie?
4:26
@@hajoeijgenraam295 Hmm missed that whoops.
Epic
Oh man seeing that "Omg it's a tier list" thread brought back a lot of lurking memories.
Edward in D tier is criminal
Should he be in E instead?
@@ametaslave7314 slander towards godward will not be entertained
Where do you think he should be placed?
I essentially required him as my solo unit for the DB sections, so I have a heart for him being higher than D myself.
@@Furen His availability is the best of any good unit in part 1, and if you give him paragon as a sword master the investment is not ridiculous. Paragon’d Edward can get like 10-12 levels in 3-6 alone. He always does a job for me in the tower, even on hard mode. I’d say A-, but maybe B or B+ is more objective.
@@Spiresbeyond Nah, no way he's as good as Mia or Nolan. C I can see, but not B. Maaaaybe he could be considered B tier on normal mode.
Mai waifu promoted to c tier??? Dondon based
Dis you guys forget to rate Leanne or am inuust blind?
it was in part 2 probably, which had been copyright struck and is lost to time
@Jackie-m8i oh that makes sense. Damn
I wish I had transfers. But I would need to purchase a Wii again to use the GCN memory card AND shell out $300+ for the actual game 🙃
Do a let's play.
mordecai is not on the list 😢
4:26
@@crocobae thx somehow i missed it
Its hard to beat 1-9 without TBK so TBK good. But also not count how hard it would be to beat 1-P without Edward????
You guys never said how close to Doritos Gatrie was
So, is anyone going to mention that there's no Leanne on the list, or was this discussed in the initial tier list video?
No Mordecai, Lethe, or Muarim either by the looks of things.
... Man, this cast is unreasonably huge.
Explained at 4:26
They hated Mekkah bc he told them the truth "Aran is D tier"
I think Renning is far from E or F tier, because I would consider anyone in those tiers "making the game harder to play when they are fielded," and Renning does his job as a "Chonky promoted cavalier" admirably. Also he has a moustache
Kurthnaga as a support unit isn't bad at all either, really like his skill
Edward and Leonardo have been nothing but liabilities for me, and I think Micaiah's Sacrifice utility is good enough to get her into lower B tier
The problem with renning is his availability and his speed stat. He is literally only avalible for the tower where he is competing for 1 of 10 slots. Compared to the royal laguz and giffca that you get around the same time, he is incredibly weak. His base speed of 29 is really bad as it won't even double the generals in the tower. His str at 31 isn't even that good as most cav units will have that much. He would probably only be good in a 0% run but even then, he is significantly weaker than the other units you would have just gotten.
Kurthnaga's night tide isn't particularly useful it's rare that 5 def or 5 res makes much of a difference. Blood tide and white pool are both significantly more useful.
Leonardo is surprisingly useful if you know how to use him right. He's very easy to utilize due to high bow might and hit rate that allow Leo to chip very effectively and he is able to double untransformed laguz with the Lughnasadh. Crossbows are underrated for people who hasn't utilized it properly, Leo with Aqqar and affinity bonus can actually transition into Part 4 quite amiably. He still won't do a lot of damage, but you don't need him to, because how Part 4 allows you to field a lot of people, at base with little investments, he is worth the deploy in the Hawk Army, a lot of terrains that allows him to chip and be safe, and 4-E is a pretty good place for almost anyone.
Yeah, I decided to use Edward's skill to help Micaiah since it is counter productive and I mix her with Nolan so she doesn't get hit but if she does "be one hell of hit" Or give it to ZIhark
IMO, Titania is ranked tool high.
How is one of the two units that can ORKO Generals in Part 3 ranked too high?
@@lofnforseti8447 tbf shes in the top 3 spot
I’ve played radiant dawn probably 25+ times and I’m embarrassed to admit...I don’t know what the strike rank for laguz units....
Does it increase their damage or something? When talking about volug, they bring up his strike rank and I’m not sure why it matters...
Laguz have weapon ranks just like beorc. When their weapon rank levels up, their mt goes up and sometimes their hit rate goes up.
serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/inventory/strikes/
yeah!!! haar is s+ tier.
Can we talk about how stupid the Dawn brigade Is so bad,like yeah Jill Is good but she can go out (you just hate yourself or care about the story if you do that)same thing with zihark,i know Sothe Is good but he Is not a good EXP invesment,the only three that feel like a good EXP invesment are:Nolan, Edward and micahia but they are not like super big power houses if you train them they are just fine and feel good using them,the other ones are just a dissapointment or complete trash, Leonardo and Aran are like fine but as we could see with the Aran of Mekkah he Is just there he doesn't do anything amazing,and Leonardo Is an archer ehhh yeah archers and he doesn't have very good growths also he got the best personal weapon in the Dawn brigade and he still feels meh,and the big troll of Fiona and Meg, Horse and can shove Sothe, WHAT ELSE YOU CAN ASK?,oh yeah volug i mean Laguz are weird but he has good stats and he gains EXP a Little low but yeah volug Is cool
Am I blind or is gatrie not on this list
Fs for Gatrie
4:26
Surprised to see Zihark this low
Shinon below A- is also surprising, I didn't see any drawbacks
@@JackSparm Lack of 1-range? The units in A tier has very solid 1-2 range in the places they are on their peak.
They pretty high
Bad tier list
Aran not in S+ tier
Samus Tier
Dondon needs to do Ironman runs
Dude, his fe7 0% growth rate is more than ironman
True, but I'd love to see him dominate an Ironman run
@@the_sacred_stoner285 he said he doesn't enjoy them in his recent q+a community post