Hey Mick & Dan, Ignazio here. Vintage EVM12L are in my personal top 3 favorite guitar speakers. A MESA/Boogie 1x12 Thiele Extension loaded with MY own 1980 EVM12L is a mainstay in Jensen's demo room. Since we obviously went a great deal looking into the build specifics that make that speaker so special, I thought of sharing a few notes from the R&D lab: 1) The EVM12L is NOT a guitar speaker. It was originally designed as a mid-woofer for PA/Sound Reinforcement applications. Proof of this is the surrounds that are made in treated cloth, while all guitar speakers have paper surrounds (or better, in a traditional guitar speaker the cone membrane extends to the edge of the speaker, and is bent/formed to become the suspension). Fortunately, some guys on the US west coast decided to give it a try, and did not care about the recommended application: the community should be grateful to people like Alex Dumble, Randall Smith and Paul Rivera for having paired Fender-style amps with the EVM12L. 2) The frequency response is, after all, not THAT different from a traditional guitar speaker. The difference is HOW the EVM12L responds to power. It is designed to be as clear and uncolored as possible. So, the membrane, voice coil, and spider, are designed to react "piston-like" with the minimum dynamic compression and distortion possible. The complete opposite of what a trad guitar speaker is designed to do, enriching and coloring the tone with harmonics and overtones even with a mere handful of watts. 3) every detail in the EVM12L is made to minimize distortion and coloration. Even the basket frame is die-cast aluminum, to avoid vibrations and resonances. 4) Super large voice coil (2,5"), about twice the size of a normal guitar speaker voice coil (from 1 1/2" to 2" max). Most Celestion speakers have 1 3/4" VCs. 5) HUGE ceramic magnet. 2 or 3 times bigger and heavier than the standard. The combination of the large voice coil and huge magnet make up for exceptional dynamics and nearly unlimited headroom. So, do we like'em? Yes, we love'em, with certain amps, not all of them, and they need to be used in a certain way to get the most out of them. We love them with F-style amps, from clean to medium gain tones. Since the speaker is SO clean, it loves a certain amount of amp compression and "hairy" overtones; if you pair it with a super squeaky clean amp, it might sound a bit too dry and sterile. Yes, they can be brutal and unforgiving if wrongly paired. Great in ported and open back cabs. We like them less with British-style amps and power amps, especially with EL84-powered amps. We're still quite happy with fat, powerful EL34 amps, and closed-back large cabs. Hope this may be of interest to the community... yes, I'm a bit of a speaker nerd, I do admit...
@@brownmonkeybananayellow Most likely very low mechanical losses, achieved by vented spiders, vented pole pieces and most important non conducting voice coil formers. Another speaker nerd here;)
@@brownmonkeybananayellow great question. Here’s the deal: all these speakers have a pretty high efficiency/sensitivity, swinging from 95 up to 100dB with 1 watt of applied power. That’s a LOT. So even 10-15 watts from a Princeton are more than capable of being loud. I actually played for years with my 1965 Princeton AA764 with a C12N in the modded baffle, PLUS the ext cab with the EVM12L. No probs at all. The power rating of the speaker only indicates the max power they can take before burning out. Note that a guitar speaker is designed to break up even with a couple of watts. And the behavior won’t change too much until you’re really pushing the speaker to the point of blowing it. On the other hand, the EVM12L won’t break up at all, until you’re frying it. The increasing compression, overdrive, oomph, etc that you hear when you push the amp loud… it’s the amp, much more than the speaker :)
Massive EV fan here, I’ve tried quite a few celestions and there’s just something in them that I don’t like and the EV fixes that. This show demonstrates that nearly symbiotic relationship between amp and speaker, some amps need a certain speaker colouration to sound their best, others are more of a blank canvas where the speaker is another tone shaper. In terms of the EV I think what goes in, comes out and if you don’t like what comes out then that’s the pure sound of the amp that you don’t like, don’t a big deal because as demonstrated, once you find the speaker that works with that amp you’re back in happy land. Other things to mention, the weight!! Every cab an EV goes in becomes heavy and then there’s the feel, because of their clarity and they can feel very honest and stiff, which also doesn’t suit all amps. Still it’s my favourite speaker, awesome round up guys, this is quite a specific rabbit hole but one I’m sure a lot of people have wondered about.
While I went to view this video to learn more about the speaker in question, during which time my questions were answered, I ended up truly enjoying both of you showing and sharing real joy and skills while playing guitar. The two of you are a great together and you both play so well and show such clear passion and knowledge about all things related to electic guitar and amps that just can't be faked. Thank you both and cheers all around 🎉
Wow. It's cool to hear the EVs. I had forgotten that they even exist. They've always been the top end of speakers. This is an excellent demonstration and great guitar playing on both your parts. Very enjoyable and educational. You're a good team. Good food for thought... Thanks
I just realized how wonderful TPS has become over the years. I just listen without touching the volume bar no matter talk or play. Can't say that for many youtube videos! Also I'd love to hear speculation about the speaker power handling relation to anything. Like you originally got power handling to match the amps for them not to break (and they still withstand a lot more power than expected), but people figured out you don't need that amount of power to push the speaker to play well, that the same 100W speakers could play just nice with 20W amp, perhaps even better to your taste than some better matching ones. EV and its copies are just very nice combined with a traditional speaker like Celestion V30/65/75/Greenback. I loved Johan Segeborns comparison on EV combinations, it just made everything better when mixed together. Also I have a bad pun for you: what happens when you put a heavy magnet in Electro-Voice speaker? You get EVH. My take on angled cabs: got one because they look cooler. Realized that I hate the sound of speaker directly into your ear, I would always stand on the side further away.
@@ThatPedalShow can you do a show on 'beam blockers' and shield-type devices? I recall a couple of years ago that there was a funky designed shield thing that helped ypu hear your amp clearly no matter where you stood...
@@alexlewis8468 I use tilt back legs and a beam blocker is a must. Found some adhesive backed neoprene, cut a disc about the size of a CD and stuck it on the inside of the grill cloth.
After years of trying all kinds of pedals/amps/guitars... I have settled on a few gear philosophies that work for MY ears. #1 single coils #2 fender blackface smaller wattage circuit (15/22wts up to 35 depending application) #3 higher wattage speaker when matched to amp. Get the dirt from volume or pedals.
Yeah man! I got a Jensen alnico Blackbird 100watt for my Egnater Tweaker set to US voicing. That as my wet rig and then paired with a VOX AC15C1 for the dry rig. Home volume, of course, needs some love which comes from the Wampler Euphoria OD which then gets stacked into Pantheon and again if needed into the TC Zeus drive. Fender Vintera 50's Modified Tele and tone heavens here I come!
It’s interesting because this is a long path to arrive where most guitar players start with little to no experience. Strat > Pedals > Fender Blackface Amp > Speaker that can handle the peaks of the tube output.
I really enjoyed the vid, thanks guys. When I saw the title I immediately thought of a picture of SRV's rig, he was in the studio running multiple amps through an enormous cab stuffed with 8 EV speakers.
I had a 4x12 Avatar cab that I loaded with 4 EV12Ls and i'll never forget turning on a swollen pickle and the absolutely COLLOSAL bass. The sub-bass in my recording studio from the speakers was so intense that from 4-5 feet away you could feel your bones vibrating up all the way to your knees through the floating wood floorboards. Absolutely bonkers.
No offense , but try a Bogner cab or something of similar quality. I had an Avatar cab and it’s seriously dead compared to my two Bogner cabs. Many a guitarist friends of whom one is professional agreed wholeheartedly that the avatar was dead compared. Again don’t mean to offend you Cheers.
@@Nightjar726you must have had a bad one cause I’ve owned several Avatar Cabs and they are steller. The Forte is a pure work of art and it sounds like it.
Thanks guys. Yes my Mesa 5/50plus has an EVM 12L. Works great. My Mesa DC3 has a Peavey black widow 12. Which is like an EVM 12l. And yes each amp has to be tuned to that speaker. I love both amps. But like everything in your signal chain ,,, it makes a difference. Strings , pickups , body wood , neck wood , tubes , speaker , on an on ,,, it all makes up your sound !!!!
Thanks Guys, that has answered many, many questions.... Many of which I'd never thought of asking and few would be within my scope of actioning.... But thanks... There was no question over the fascination!
I’ve always loved EV loaded Boogies, and most of the time I’ve had them raised off the floor on an angled stand. They do have a lot of gravity packed into them though.
EVs are the best speaker companion I could ask for in my tone journey. Wherever I go, whatever I ask of it, and no matter what I put it through, my EVs handle it with integrity. Despite the EQ of the EV being relatively flat, I think of it as more complimentary to a variety of amps than others that impart more of their identity. If I don't like the sound I'm getting, I know it's because I'm hearing more of the amp or pedal, rather than the EV producing unpleasant or uncomplimentary sounds on its own. It helps me eliminate a variable because I know where I must make adjustments from. EVs won't work for everything, but they offer me a better perspective on what other pieces of my gear sound like and help make me a more informed tone chaser because of it.
I don't know if all guitar amps sound better through an EVM-12L, but I really love them. I have a pair of 80's Mesa Boogie Thiele 1x12 cabinets with EVM-12L.. They sound absolutely divine to me. They are great as a reference to how your amp sounds.. Some players don't like them, but I am not among them. I love my late 70's Hiwatt through an EVM-12L. Killer demo.
I'm 61 and have lusted after Mesa Boogie Mark series amps since I became aware of them in early 1980s. I do recall an interview with Randall Smith, founder of Mesa, in that time, where he said he loaded the Boogies with EVs because he wanted to hear the amp - and the amp ONLY - not a mishmash of amp & speaker as the sound. This view has obviously changed since then as the EVs went by the wayside & Mesa now encompasses the sound of the speaker into their tonal equations for their amps, but back then, with only a Mark III for sale, they were able to boutique their amp in such a way. Smith was adamant that he wanted the amp circuitry to provide the sound, with little to no reliance upon a speaker to assist in final tonal sound. I do hope my recollections from 40 years ago aren't wrong, but that's something that has stuck in my mind.
Thanks guys, I love this type of shoot-out, I have done quite a bit of speaker swapping over the years, but not with the logic and evaluation and assessment that you did. I learned a lot today. My favorite swap with my gear was fitting a Celestion Gold alnico to my 65 DRRI.
My experience with the EVM12L is in my Mesa Boogie Mark III Purple Stripe and my Mark II C+, both with graphic EQ. Having graphic EQ in the amp or the effects loop I think is the key to making the EVM12L sound great with just about any amp. The Mesa Boogie Mark II and III amps and Dumble amps were designed with the EVM12L in mind. Blues and Classic Rock through EVM12L’s sounds amazing. Mick, if you can find one, buy a Mesa Boogie MS-12 Black Shadow Speaker with the Jouster on it, for the top half of your Boogie cabinet. The MS-12 was made by Eminence for Boogie as sort of lower cost 150 watt copy of the EVM12L. The MS-12 sounds a lot like a EVM12L but with a smoother treble response, many prefer it to the EVM12L. My Mark III has the MS-12 in the combo and an EVM12L in a Mesa Thiele cabinet. Together they sound huge and fuller than two EVM12L speakers.
Personal favourite combinations were: Princeton with Jensen (I like the way the bass falls over it’s quite musical to my ears) AC15 with EV’s (Just great tones) 1987X with Lester and EV’s or with Tele and Celestions Matchless with Lester and Celestions or with Tele and EV’s Another great show guys! Thanks for all your hard work!!
I love the EV's, I have 2 cabs with them installed. They are much more efficient then Celestion Greenbacks which explains why they are louder with the same signal. They have a much more immediate response and very different feel for the player. Good video. Thanks.
So interesting. In my opinion, the EV’s sounded wonderful with every amp but the matchless. And, I expected the matchless to shine through them. If you ever do more with this, I’d love to hear the two rock through the EV’s and compared to the stock two rock 2x12 vertical cab. Thanks for another wonderful installment.
Oh man I love the old EVM12L’s. I used to use only high powered tube amps with 12L’s, always trying to get the most clean headroom I could. Those speakers will quickly reveal the holes in your playing - very unforgiving yet make you a better, cleaner player. They’re painfully heavy. And will surely deafen your audience and infuriate your sound engineer in short order. But to feel the power that they put at your fingertips, the clean volume that you always wished you could get out of your amp suddenly there in spades…very addictive!
First things first: You don't know me, but after watching you guys for years, it's almost like watching friends jamming.. Such a great show, and I hope you boys never quit! 2nd: First 2 amps, as you said, very easy.. Last 2, man that was much harder to choose!! Keep on rocking guys 😎 Cheers from Montreal
I've had an EVM12L for many years. In and out of various cabs. It's not Love/Hate, more like Love/Meh. I recently paired it with another orphan - the Eminence Commonwealth 12, another huge magnet high power JBL-ish monster. Put them in a closed back Bluesbreaker-style cab built by Lopo - a now-defunct USA cab builder. I wanted a big stereo cab. Obviously, it can go extreme but doesn't have to - it can do clean with infinite headroom. It also sounds surprisingly good with distortion/overdrive. Big cab, big magnets, big sound.
Thank you gentlemen, very interesting and god sounding episode. I would really like to hear an episode about old Boogie’s. Now you have the speakers the Mark-series was designed for, and we know that Mick knows his Boogies.🙂
This is an excellent video. My takeaway was actually that Matchless makes can outstanding cab and that those speakers are incredibly well matched. That one moment that Dan was playing the Matchless cab with the Marshall head, I saw 114 dB. Unreal. The audio in the cans was STUNNING.
I have the EV 12L's in a mesa 4x12 cab the best clean sound ever but they are heavy. I love this comparison because there was a real difference between the sounds but I guess more a personal preference for your taste would be the final choice, great video guys you should do more of these type video's!!!
I collected four EVM10M speakers for a 4X10, but now I am getting cold feet. Not really as strong as I used to be, and even if I use a little 1965-sized box it will be a bit of a lump. I guess that I have to try it out once. 🙉
A really great comparison I'd like to hear would be modern high power AlNiCo drivers like the Celestion AlNiCo Cream and the Jensen Blackbird, and how they compare to both the EVM-12L and the Celestion Vintage 30. A lot of people don't realise that Celestion specifically designed the Vintage 30 to replicate as near as possible given the technology of its era, an AlNiCo Blue, albeit with higher power handling via a ceramic magnet, and for my money, until the AlNiCo Cream came out, the Vintage 30 was the closest you could get to a Blue that wouldn't self-destruct with bigger amps. But for me, the Cream is the Queen Bee, now. I haven't heard enough of the newer Jensens to have a firm opinion on them, but what I've heard is promising.
I have a custom cab from Barefaced in UK with Celestian Vin30 in it; its great but I also have arriving in Malaysia from Barefaced this week the same model cab with a used 1992 EVM12S (the 300w version) in it; I'd done a lot of research online only - and decided the best thing to go for was the EVM - tho hard to find an old one. I could hear a subtle but definite difference in your tests, It was like tasting decent Cadbury's chocolate then sampling some fine Belgium luxury chocolate, or having red wine then trying a Shiraz from South Australia! The EV is just that notch up more luxuriously indulgent and quality! Great test guys!! Also both of you are extremely lyrical and creatively interesting players with massive talent! Im gonna rip off plenty of those riffs and harmonies you played on here - sound great!
The moment you get a loadbox an start experimenting with speaker IRs is the moment when your 3rd, 4th, and 5th eyes open and you start wanting to experiment with real speakers.
Really interesting - not only for the sound demos but for your takes on the outcome. As with all things in music, it really comes down to how easily and rapidly you can identify and hone in on a sound that inspires and propels you to the outer regions of artistic expression. I've never played through an EVM 12L but do own an EVM 15L. It has radically less upper mids and presence than my go-to speakers Celestion Cream Alnico and JBL D130. But if you compensate for the EQ disparity, the 15L is really wonderful and has the most incredibly beautiful attack you can imagine.
Excellent comparisons, and great job exploring the relationship between amp and speaker. I keep a 1x12 ported Mesa cab with a 12L, and it sounds perfect with a Boogie, but it’s not “right” for a lot of other amps.
Good show, boys. Speakers are like guitars - it's hard to just have one! I built a couple of cabs to use with my amps. Nice pine boxes. One with a 12 inch alnico blue and one with the 10 inch alnico gold. I'm thinking about doing a cream back next. Rock on!
If they did this show to tell everyone EVs sucked and they should avoid them- would you suddenly hate them? I seriously doubt it, and yet them validating your choice will no doubt make them sound even better.
@@stoneysdead689 their perspective does not matter to me. It is just interesting to hear what they have to say. I have already used the EVM12L for a couple of days and I think it sounds fantastic with a couple of specific type of guitar tones
So I watch your show while making my Saturday morning breakfast and my 2 cents is I didn't turn my head once for the sound of EV's. All of the artefacts you didn't like from the other speakers made them more interesting to my ears 👍
Hey Dan & Mick - Not re: EV Speakers but....A challenge for you! You've some outside gigs coming up - festivals, garden parties, busking etc. - however being outside you've no access to mains power!....So the challenge is... You need to put an amp & board together to cover a wide range of tones, relying on batteries only - easy right! Not quite...there are a couple of rules: 1. You've no budget restrictions, but only a couple of days to pack, so both amp & pedals must be readily available, new & 2nd hand is fine, fast delivery - but no waiting lists allowed! 2. Being that you'll be on the road all summer, you can only use batteries commonly available from most shops - no 're-chargeable' battery packs, or car battery set-ups allowed! - only 9V, AA, AAA's etc. 3. In your rush to pack you've forgotten your screwdriver, so battery access for both amp & pedals has to be 'tool-free' - so budbox MXR screw style enclosures are out! 4. Finally, being dedicated tone-hounds you balk at built-in amp effects, so ALL tones must be produced from the pedals only - apart from amp reverb, that's a freebie :-) I've recently been through a very similar experience, and with the ever increasing proliferation of pedals that due to small size or reliance on power hungry digital chips can only be run on mains power, it turned out to be a fun challenge in limitations! Love to see a show on how you guys would approach it!
A Yamaha THR5 also has effects, same with the portable Boss(I would only consider using time based effects, and some mods(depends), but no drives. Roland Micro Cube? Blackstar Fly 3(has delay) Most of these amps come with rechargeable batteries, and my next piece of gear can even recharge some of these batteries, but it may not be necessary. Also, a car battery can power smaller solid state amps pretty easily. Any lead-acid deep cycle batteries, i.e. for gold carts, campers, but you’ll need a power inverter(pure sine wave inverter). This gives ability to connect to the car battery, or other similar ones. There are power inverters with more than one outlet, so with an extension cord, one could power an amp and pedals. One just has to select the right pedals, and a car battery can power a full board. I say use solid state because they aren’t as temperature sensitive. There are many smaller SS combos, that don’t need a lot of juice, yet can get plenty loud enough for your scenario. Battery powered speaker, with a combo amp is the best choice in my opinion. The screwdriver thing, I’m not even going to address, because not being able to get access to one is a bit silly. One should have several in a gig bag, or backpack to start with, snd I’ve never had an issue getting one, or even using anything that can fit into the screw one needs to get out. Whether small amp to get to the batteries, or pedals. I mean a simple google search can answer the heart of your scenario. I would say the Roland Cube Street, is the best option. Takes 6 AA batteries, to give 50watts, has Reverb and modulation, looper(on the Street 2, which is also a few hundred cheaper). EX is the high end, but the 2 does many of the same things.
@@CorbCorbin Many thanks for the really helpful and useful advice, very much appreciated 😁👍🏻 Working within the limitations set - no amp fx, rechargeable or car batteries, or screwdriver available etc. - are the point of the 'fun' challenge though, and which, depending one's viewpoint, makes it 'fun' and challenges one to think differently into how one would approach getting as great a tone as possible with the limitations set😁 In reality one can usually source a long extension cord from a helpful individual to power ones dream-rig, but where's the fun in that 😁👍🏻
@@ThatPedalShow Go on then Dan, Mick - Accept the challenge! - Show us you're brave enough to tackle the nightmare! I await with baited breath for the results in the coming months 😁👍🏻
Nice - the EV’s immediately “opened” the upper mids, which can be really nice, especially for cleans - but wow, if the amp is a little “pokey” to compensate for dark speakers, the EVs are BRUTAL. 😬 Thanks for the explorations! Cheers.
Hi Guys...This was a very good episode, I agree with Mr Dumble's perspective and its one that I've had for years. Ive been using EV 12L's for years and have preferred the tones etc that are projected from them, especially from a closed back cabinet, like a 4-12 Marshall cab, all speakers removed except 2-12L's in stereo, and other speaker holes blocked off = lots of bass and when turned up loud you get beautiful crunch. Used a Boogie 50/50 amp and boogie V-Twin pre....yumO !! delicious... Thanks for the great reviews. Greetings from Canada. 🤘
Slightly off-topic; I recently swapped the feeble Celestion Ten-30 (95dB) in my DSL5CR for an elderly 1980s150W Celestion Sidewinder (103dB). The differences were astonishing; gone was the fizzy and spiky top end, the overdrive smoothed out, and that 8dB increase in volume was enormous-to the point I would consider gigging it, un-mic'd. Guitar used is a Noventa Tele (P90) and awesome.
Two thoughts, as someone who used EVM-15B’s and L’s for bass up until the mid 90’s, and has messed around w/12L’s in open-back guitar combos over the years: I wish I could have been in the room for this one. The volume jump, effortless headroom and transient response don’t translate well to video, regardless of what we use for monitors at home. Secondly, EV-loaded cabs are NOT fun to lug down a flight of stairs at the end of a long night. And the extra weight will tear up a light, vintage-Fender style pine cab in no time at all, assuming you can even squeeze the massive magnet structure into the box in the first place.
My favorite cab is a narrower 4-12 staggered speaker, Silvertone with bottom tapered in the back for it's two built-in grill style axle'd wheels. Leave the lower right speaker out and run two Celestion G12M 70's in the upper left and right, and an EVM12L in lower left. Sounds amazing and you'll love the ease of moving it. Nice handle on the upper back.
You guys, this is very interesting. I don’t have access to the real thing like you do, but in the modeling world I’ve found that my favorite speaker combo in my HX Stomp with almost every amp model is the Mesa Boogie mk IV 1x12 + Boogie mk IV extension cab with EVM12L. It seems to bring a balanced, neutral tone to each amp. I don’t yet know how it sits in a mix though, and I wonder if that’s where other speakers with more character shine.
Awesome! I love it. Again this is an example of when your show is at its best. Indeed it was fascinating how the EV is not the best all around. Further you mentioned how a small amp caving in is not useful for Live Performance, but for recording.....INDEED. Because we are listening to a "recording" of your show, I thought the Princeton sounded awesome. This is why we need your perception of what you are hearing in the room.
I really liked what it did to the Princeton the most! Strong-boned. I now have a suspicion that a tweed deluxe reissue with an EV12 will probably get me pretty close to my ideal tone.
Good one, can’t wait to get home and rewatch through the good speakers on the big tv. Greetings and salutations from Muscle Shoals Alabama hit recording capital of the world 🌍
Interesting comparison, i would have placed the boogie cab on its side to prevent the angled speaker from hitting you differently than the stock cabs. I’d be interested in seeing this comparison done with Mick’s Super Reverb and the Hiwatt.
Thank you Mic & Dan!!! Very good 'real world' comparisons, guys! I played EVMs in my various amps for a short while, (mostly in a '64 BFDR) but I found, except for a few amps that work with EVMs (THD Plexi's on really large stages), they are much better for sound reinforcement - monitors, PA, FOH, etc, for me. EV Force speakers (Which I also used for a short while) were much better because they actually had a bit of a mid hump and much less bass response. Still - I went back to Jensen C's, '50s Old Jensen AlNiCo's, Celestion Blues, Greenback 25's, Vintage 30's, etc. All have their place and all work well, overall, but I found that each speaker plays a specific role. One must find what that role is for ones own needs.
Fascinating video, gents, and I was actually surprised by the correctness of my expectations! With those littler amps, an all-devouring speaker like an EV lets you hear parts of the amplifier circuit that just don't make it through the transformer-to-speaker conversion, but with a powerful amp designed for use with a cab, it's way too easy to spotlight parts of the tone that were *meant* to be drowned by a quad of Greenbacks or the G12M+G12H pairing. I thought the latter 2 amps both had an edge of unpleasant, thin treble, almost a piezo or DI sound, along with the bass boost. (Interesting as well how hearing more of the Marshall circuit and less of the whole 4x12 experience brought out the tweed Fender lineage too, I thought.)
I bought an old Mesa Metal grill 2x12 for 100 bucks locally, They guy said the top speaker was shot, and it was. Ripped in half, said he didn't know what was in the bottom. Gave him 100 bucks, brought it home and it was an EVM12L. WooHoo. Mesa loaded these cabs with an MC90 up top and the 12L on the bottom. But I had an M65 Creamback laying around and threw it in. I don't know, with my Mark IV it sounds killer. I mostly play with gain, hard rock and metal. I may just leave it in, although I've heard guys like the maker of Scumback speaker who's says not to mix small and large magnet speakers. I don't know, like I said, sounds great.
As an ev-12L fan I would recommend you guys try a modern celestial redback 150w speaker. I love mine it’s actually a bit darker and smoother than an ev.
Guys... Great content 👍 This is probably the most interesting episode so far. EV's sound great, surely a high quality speaker. But courses for horses. High quality amps usually have high quality speakers and have done their R&D hence you can't mess with the Matchless. Keep up with your tone quest ! Much love and appreciation 👍
Upon reflection, another take away for me as someone who is pretty attracted to resilient speakers and high headroom amps, I get how it's "courses for horses" or/and "goodness of fit". I like how so much of it is also mood related. We like some things more sometimes than others (totally remaining unclever here!).
In the mid-1970s I used a silver faced Fender Twin with these wonderful speakers. EV is (was?) based in Michigan (my home) and switching to EV speakers was fairly ubiquitous among the serious rockers of my set. The "beast" sounded like the heavens opening, but it took two men to move it.
After each finger snap, I had to close my eyes and shake my head to try to keep from being overwhelmed by EVAwesome. I love the stock sounds on every one of those amps but I’d sure love to have an EV cab loitering in the studio to swap in,from time to time
I used a Boogie 2X12, like yours, Celestion cream back open back top and EV 12L in closed back bottom powered by a Boogie Mark II B, for several years. 15 feet out in front, that cabinet would kill the patrons in small bars who sat close to the band, while the slant top, playing at my bum, sounded fine. Used EV's in several other ways back in the day, driving my crazy that I cannot have a conversation with you guys for a few minutes, but understand how big the demands on your time must be these days.
They were closer than I expected; less EQ difference. I'm about 50/50 in terms of preference with all the amps; it really just depends on the song, the context, what I'd be trying to accomplish. tl;dr it all sounded good and has a place!
As an EVM12L user for over 35 years (I have that boogie cab as well!), I love them, but the weight can be a problem - I recently swapped EVMs in my fender DR modded amps with Jensen Tornado neo 12/100 drivers and was shocked that they gave nothing up to the EVs in these particular amps - they had all the bottom end as well as a little bit of sparkle that had been missing from the EVs. I like these speakers a lot (I play a wide range of rock/jazz/pop) and if you can find them I’d suggest you check them out. The ones I own have been out of production for a few years but I understand the new ones are also great.
In the 80's we always looked for old P.A. stacks that had EV speakers in them for all our keggar parties with live music. The Peavey Black Widows that were replacing alot of stuff, just couldn't hang when the going got rough. Never had any EV speaker blow, that I can remember? We pounded those things to death every weekend without fail. Wish I had an old set. Recently took a shot on a set of the new import Yamaha model DHR15s. They make them outside of Japan now in a brand new factory in India. Keeps the price reasonable and you still get the Pro model Yamaha 7yr. factory warranty. Real wood cabinets are soo much better sounding than the cheap plastic crap most brands are using now. If your going up with them more than 3-4ft. to a stand, you just use the anchors and hoist them right up.
I was lucky enough to get a pair of 8ohm 1979 EVM12Ls from the original owner. They came out of old PA cabinets that he owned since 1982 and ran as a part of a larger sound system. As soon as I put them in my TL806 (Thiele) cabs, it just sounded RIGHT. I haven’t wanted any other guitar cabinets/speakers since, and I’m crossing my fingers that still have get some good life/time out of them (they are 43 years old!)
In the case of the Princeton. I know a lot of folks end up modifying baffles & squeezing various 12" speakers in them. Personally I think a Princeton in a Deluxe sized cab with a 12" would be a cool thing for little club gigs. Oh and a lot of the Rivera era 80's Fenders had EV's too. You guys should try to score something like a Super Champ to check out.
I have a Rivera era Super Champ and a 2 x 12 EV SRO cab, saving up to get a custom combo cab for one of the EV SRO 12s and the Super Champ. May be the end of my quest, if my back can take lifting it!
I’ve had several Princeton’s with 12s. I still use a 64 with a Weber alnico Q cone. Depending on what model speaker and how efficient it is you can gig the Princeton anywhere. This set up is nice as it sounds classic and has a bit more kick. Doesn’t weight much. If I need more I have a vibroluxe or super. Other times i put a v30 in there and got quite a cutting sound. Was never not loud enough for me.
If upgrading the Princeton speaker, upgrade of the output tx is certainly worth considering as Mick alludes to here. I installed a Celestion Blue with an Allen TO20 output tx and wow, what a difference. Next step was to also upgrade the power tx with help from T.A.D. who supplied the fatter iron. Final tweaks included the 'Stokes' mod to provide the PI tube with a sensible voltage + replace the 6V6s with a pair of 6L6s and BOOM, what a sweet sounding little 24-watt gig worthy package I've now got!
I had a 74 silver face Twin with 2 "coffee can" EVs. I assume the previous owner must've dropped the amp because it was so freaking heavy that the cabinet was coming apart. It was quite wobbly transporting the beast so I traded it in. I believe Jerry Garcia was known to separate Twins to make into a head/cab in the early '70s with the other high watt, weighty 120 JBL speakers..
I gigged a pair of EV 12Ls in 1x12 cabs for many years with a Triaxis/395 stereo rack rig and loved that rig. IMO the best way to configure EVs for weight and handling power. Also had the 4x12 half back C90/EV Boogie cab with a Mark IIB and later a Mark III. Kept a Boogie 2x12 halfback just like Mick’s cab at our church with a greenback top/G75T bottom I plugged a Fender Super Champ XD into. Sounded much better than the stock speaker!
Great comparison and observations !. I play an early 80's 50 watt JCM 800, thru a 4x12 cab converted to hold 2 EV 15'Ls, (and on rare occasions I plug into a pair or EV 15"Bs). My JCM has 6550 power tubes, and I use a Tube Works Blue Tube in the Effects loop, as a "tube EQ", to create clear lows & highs that the midrange based JCM was formerly uncapable of. I play in a lot of un-mic'd outdoor jams, my 2x15" cab, and at a matched stage volume level with the other guitarists, (who are using 1, 2, or 4x12" rigs), my amp always gets heard by the spectators at the far end of the acreage, and shows up more prominently in the audio recordings made by them. I think that you, Mick & Pete, should take this current EV 12" experiment to the next stage, and run various guitar amps thru 15"s !. I believe the playing demands of Dick Dale inspired the Fender Dual Showman with a 2x15" cabinet, and I have seen Keith Richards & The Expensive Winos playing thru 1980's vertical 2x15" cabs, (like Mick's vertical 2x12"). 15"s won't be right for everyone, or every rig, but I think there are some eye-opening attributes to them, that you guys could explore !
![How To Use Two Guitar Amps Together [Connections, Phase, Polarity & Why Analog Dry-Through Matters]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LH9FO1EMIPQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Mick & Dan, Ignazio here. Vintage EVM12L are in my personal top 3 favorite guitar speakers. A MESA/Boogie 1x12 Thiele Extension loaded with MY own 1980 EVM12L is a mainstay in Jensen's demo room. Since we obviously went a great deal looking into the build specifics that make that speaker so special, I thought of sharing a few notes from the R&D lab:
1) The EVM12L is NOT a guitar speaker. It was originally designed as a mid-woofer for PA/Sound Reinforcement applications. Proof of this is the surrounds that are made in treated cloth, while all guitar speakers have paper surrounds (or better, in a traditional guitar speaker the cone membrane extends to the edge of the speaker, and is bent/formed to become the suspension). Fortunately, some guys on the US west coast decided to give it a try, and did not care about the recommended application: the community should be grateful to people like Alex Dumble, Randall Smith and Paul Rivera for having paired Fender-style amps with the EVM12L.
2) The frequency response is, after all, not THAT different from a traditional guitar speaker. The difference is HOW the EVM12L responds to power. It is designed to be as clear and uncolored as possible. So, the membrane, voice coil, and spider, are designed to react "piston-like" with the minimum dynamic compression and distortion possible. The complete opposite of what a trad guitar speaker is designed to do, enriching and coloring the tone with harmonics and overtones even with a mere handful of watts.
3) every detail in the EVM12L is made to minimize distortion and coloration. Even the basket frame is die-cast aluminum, to avoid vibrations and resonances.
4) Super large voice coil (2,5"), about twice the size of a normal guitar speaker voice coil (from 1 1/2" to 2" max). Most Celestion speakers have 1 3/4" VCs.
5) HUGE ceramic magnet. 2 or 3 times bigger and heavier than the standard. The combination of the large voice coil and huge magnet make up for exceptional dynamics and nearly unlimited headroom.
So, do we like'em? Yes, we love'em, with certain amps, not all of them, and they need to be used in a certain way to get the most out of them.
We love them with F-style amps, from clean to medium gain tones. Since the speaker is SO clean, it loves a certain amount of amp compression and "hairy" overtones; if you pair it with a super squeaky clean amp, it might sound a bit too dry and sterile. Yes, they can be brutal and unforgiving if wrongly paired. Great in ported and open back cabs.
We like them less with British-style amps and power amps, especially with EL84-powered amps. We're still quite happy with fat, powerful EL34 amps, and closed-back large cabs.
Hope this may be of interest to the community... yes, I'm a bit of a speaker nerd, I do admit...
Can you comment on rated speaker power vs amp power? The Princeton sounded awesome but it’s not 200 watts and it still sounded cool. What’s happening?
@@brownmonkeybananayellow Most likely very low mechanical losses, achieved by vented spiders, vented pole pieces and most important non conducting voice coil formers. Another speaker nerd here;)
@@brownmonkeybananayellow great question. Here’s the deal: all these speakers have a pretty high efficiency/sensitivity, swinging from 95 up to 100dB with 1 watt of applied power. That’s a LOT. So even 10-15 watts from a Princeton are more than capable of being loud. I actually played for years with my 1965 Princeton AA764 with a C12N in the modded baffle, PLUS the ext cab with the EVM12L. No probs at all. The power rating of the speaker only indicates the max power they can take before burning out. Note that a guitar speaker is designed to break up even with a couple of watts. And the behavior won’t change too much until you’re really pushing the speaker to the point of blowing it. On the other hand, the EVM12L won’t break up at all, until you’re frying it. The increasing compression, overdrive, oomph, etc that you hear when you push the amp loud… it’s the amp, much more than the speaker :)
@@JensenSpeakersVideos oh man thank you!!! Need one.
@@zappel52 I will have to try one of these bad boys
Massive EV fan here, I’ve tried quite a few celestions and there’s just something in them that I don’t like and the EV fixes that. This show demonstrates that nearly symbiotic relationship between amp and speaker, some amps need a certain speaker colouration to sound their best, others are more of a blank canvas where the speaker is another tone shaper. In terms of the EV I think what goes in, comes out and if you don’t like what comes out then that’s the pure sound of the amp that you don’t like, don’t a big deal because as demonstrated, once you find the speaker that works with that amp you’re back in happy land. Other things to mention, the weight!! Every cab an EV goes in becomes heavy and then there’s the feel, because of their clarity and they can feel very honest and stiff, which also doesn’t suit all amps. Still it’s my favourite speaker, awesome round up guys, this is quite a specific rabbit hole but one I’m sure a lot of people have wondered about.
While I went to view this video to learn more about the speaker in question, during which time my questions were answered, I ended up truly enjoying both of you showing and sharing real joy and skills while playing guitar. The two of you are a great together and you both play so well and show such clear passion and knowledge about all things related to electic guitar and amps that just can't be faked. Thank you both and cheers all around 🎉
Thanks Paul 🤓🙏
Wow. It's cool to hear the EVs. I had forgotten that they even exist. They've always been the top end of speakers. This is an excellent demonstration and great guitar playing on both your parts. Very enjoyable and educational. You're a good team. Good food for thought... Thanks
I have a 79 Mesa with a evml15
“It’s not andertons” …….. love it !
Loving the great info without the 3rd grade vulgarity. 🤘
I just realized how wonderful TPS has become over the years. I just listen without touching the volume bar no matter talk or play. Can't say that for many youtube videos! Also I'd love to hear speculation about the speaker power handling relation to anything. Like you originally got power handling to match the amps for them not to break (and they still withstand a lot more power than expected), but people figured out you don't need that amount of power to push the speaker to play well, that the same 100W speakers could play just nice with 20W amp, perhaps even better to your taste than some better matching ones.
EV and its copies are just very nice combined with a traditional speaker like Celestion V30/65/75/Greenback. I loved Johan Segeborns comparison on EV combinations, it just made everything better when mixed together.
Also I have a bad pun for you: what happens when you put a heavy magnet in Electro-Voice speaker? You get EVH.
My take on angled cabs: got one because they look cooler. Realized that I hate the sound of speaker directly into your ear, I would always stand on the side further away.
Hahahahah! Totally agree on the angled cabs thing. Can be BRUtal!
@@ThatPedalShow can you do a show on 'beam blockers' and shield-type devices? I recall a couple of years ago that there was a funky designed shield thing that helped ypu hear your amp clearly no matter where you stood...
@@alexlewis8468 I use tilt back legs and a beam blocker is a must. Found some adhesive backed neoprene, cut a disc about the size of a CD and stuck it on the inside of the grill cloth.
@@alexlewis8468 Weber Beam Blocker!
After years of trying all kinds of pedals/amps/guitars... I have settled on a few gear philosophies that work for MY ears. #1 single coils #2 fender blackface smaller wattage circuit (15/22wts up to 35 depending application) #3 higher wattage speaker when matched to amp. Get the dirt from volume or pedals.
Yeah man! I got a Jensen alnico Blackbird 100watt for my Egnater Tweaker set to US voicing. That as my wet rig and then paired with a VOX AC15C1 for the dry rig. Home volume, of course, needs some love which comes from the Wampler Euphoria OD which then gets stacked into Pantheon and again if needed into the TC Zeus drive. Fender Vintera 50's Modified Tele and tone heavens here I come!
It’s interesting because this is a long path to arrive where most guitar players start with little to no experience. Strat > Pedals > Fender Blackface Amp > Speaker that can handle the peaks of the tube output.
Cant agree more!
@@CenterThePendulum as a huge Jimmy Page fan...I tried to love the Les Paul/Marshall thing... tried a VOX AC/30...Tweeds...etc.
Matchless!!!
I really enjoyed the vid, thanks guys. When I saw the title I immediately thought of a picture of SRV's rig, he was in the studio running multiple amps through an enormous cab stuffed with 8 EV speakers.
I had a 4x12 Avatar cab that I loaded with 4 EV12Ls and i'll never forget turning on a swollen pickle and the absolutely COLLOSAL bass. The sub-bass in my recording studio from the speakers was so intense that from 4-5 feet away you could feel your bones vibrating up all the way to your knees through the floating wood floorboards. Absolutely bonkers.
I heart this. Mick here. :0)
The 400 lb cabinet
No offense , but try a Bogner cab or something of similar quality.
I had an Avatar cab and it’s seriously dead compared to my two Bogner cabs.
Many a guitarist friends of whom one is professional agreed wholeheartedly that the avatar was dead compared.
Again don’t mean to offend you
Cheers.
@@xthexadvantagex Yes. It weighed as heavy as it sounded...and wasn't on casters! 😭
@@Nightjar726you must have had a bad one cause I’ve owned several Avatar Cabs and they are steller.
The Forte is a pure work of art and it sounds like it.
I bought an EV 12 L in 1976 and is still in my Mesa Boogie today. Nothing better. It will outlive you.
Thanks guys. Yes my Mesa 5/50plus has an EVM 12L. Works great. My Mesa DC3 has a Peavey black widow 12. Which is like an EVM 12l. And yes each amp has to be tuned to that speaker. I love both amps. But like everything in your signal chain ,,, it makes a difference. Strings , pickups , body wood , neck wood , tubes , speaker , on an on ,,, it all makes up your sound !!!!
Used an EV15B in my bass set-up for years and it never overloaded and sounded as good as any Altec, JBL or Eminence I ever used. Loved it!
I spend way too much time watching this channel. Thanks for the nice message on the page too Dan.
Good work, guys. I waited for 40 years for some one to speak of those. Many thanks from Italy. Gianni_ Circus 2000. Cheers
Great show, Gentlemen! EV 12Ls used to rule, I remember Larry Carlton using them exclusively in his Dumbles when I first saw him in the early '80s.
Thanks Guys, that has answered many, many questions.... Many of which I'd never thought of asking and few would be within my scope of actioning.... But thanks... There was no question over the fascination!
Dan's Matchless amp and cab are just special. When he plays that combo with his Tele he just comes alive.
Very Interesting! Thank you for continuing to expand my knowledge and blow my mind. I agree with all of Dan's picks. Have a great weekend
A friend had a mid 50's Vibroluxe that he had shoehorned a 12" EV SRO into. It was an absolutely amazing sound.
A friend of mine did the same with a silverface Princeton. Amazing amp.
I have a sunn beta lead loaded with two SRO INTO FENDER 2X12 CAB It sound amazing
Remarkable, this exact question has been on my mind for a week now. Thank you.
Another amazing video guys, as always! Really liked the honesty of the EVs, but that Matchless cab man, what a sound!!!
You can say whatever you want, I just love Dan's Red Telecaster plugged into anything!
It's pretty spiky!
I’ve always loved EV loaded Boogies, and most of the time I’ve had them raised off the floor on an angled stand. They do have a lot of gravity packed into them though.
I've been gigging a Rivera Knucklehead 55 through that same Mesa cab w/ EVM 12Ls for decades. That combo just works for me.
EVs are the best speaker companion I could ask for in my tone journey. Wherever I go, whatever I ask of it, and no matter what I put it through, my EVs handle it with integrity. Despite the EQ of the EV being relatively flat, I think of it as more complimentary to a variety of amps than others that impart more of their identity. If I don't like the sound I'm getting, I know it's because I'm hearing more of the amp or pedal, rather than the EV producing unpleasant or uncomplimentary sounds on its own. It helps me eliminate a variable because I know where I must make adjustments from. EVs won't work for everything, but they offer me a better perspective on what other pieces of my gear sound like and help make me a more informed tone chaser because of it.
I don't know if all guitar amps sound better through an EVM-12L, but I really love them. I have a pair of 80's Mesa Boogie Thiele 1x12 cabinets with EVM-12L.. They sound absolutely divine to me. They are great as a reference to how your amp sounds.. Some players don't like them, but I am not among them. I love my late 70's Hiwatt through an EVM-12L.
Killer demo.
Amazing chops!
Some of the best playing I have seen from you guys!
Love your tone on the Marshal, Dan.
KILLER playing at 30:30 Daniel. Just phenomenal!! Really loved that
I'm 61 and have lusted after Mesa Boogie Mark series amps since I became aware of them in early 1980s. I do recall an interview with Randall Smith, founder of Mesa, in that time, where he said he loaded the Boogies with EVs because he wanted to hear the amp - and the amp ONLY - not a mishmash of amp & speaker as the sound. This view has obviously changed since then as the EVs went by the wayside & Mesa now encompasses the sound of the speaker into their tonal equations for their amps, but back then, with only a Mark III for sale, they were able to boutique their amp in such a way. Smith was adamant that he wanted the amp circuitry to provide the sound, with little to no reliance upon a speaker to assist in final tonal sound. I do hope my recollections from 40 years ago aren't wrong, but that's something that has stuck in my mind.
Great video this week guys! Super interesting and to the point. Cheers!
Betterer... And Very much Louder! Because Louder is More Better right??? Cheers guys... love your work as always
What a great idea for a show - thanks for doing this!!!
I have two EVM12L Classics. They are great!! They reproduce what the amp feeds it.
Thanks guys, I love this type of shoot-out, I have done quite a bit of speaker swapping over the years, but not with the logic and evaluation and assessment that you did. I learned a lot today. My favorite swap with my gear was fitting a Celestion Gold alnico to my 65 DRRI.
My experience with the EVM12L is in my Mesa Boogie Mark III Purple Stripe and my Mark II C+, both with graphic EQ. Having graphic EQ in the amp or the effects loop I think is the key to making the EVM12L sound great with just about any amp. The Mesa Boogie Mark II and III amps and Dumble amps were designed with the EVM12L in mind. Blues and Classic Rock through EVM12L’s sounds amazing. Mick, if you can find one, buy a Mesa Boogie MS-12 Black Shadow Speaker with the Jouster on it, for the top half of your Boogie cabinet. The MS-12 was made by Eminence for Boogie as sort of lower cost 150 watt copy of the EVM12L. The MS-12 sounds a lot like a EVM12L but with a smoother treble response, many prefer it to the EVM12L. My Mark III has the MS-12 in the combo and an EVM12L in a Mesa Thiele cabinet. Together they sound huge and fuller than two EVM12L speakers.
Are the purple stripes ay good ?
Personal favourite combinations were:
Princeton with Jensen
(I like the way the bass falls over it’s quite musical to my ears)
AC15 with EV’s
(Just great tones)
1987X with Lester and EV’s or with Tele and Celestions
Matchless with Lester and Celestions or with Tele and EV’s
Another great show guys! Thanks for all your hard work!!
glad it's not just me!
I love the EV's, I have 2 cabs with them installed. They are much more efficient then Celestion Greenbacks which explains why they are louder with the same signal. They have a much more immediate response and very different feel for the player. Good video. Thanks.
So interesting. In my opinion, the EV’s sounded wonderful with every amp but the matchless. And, I expected the matchless to shine through them.
If you ever do more with this, I’d love to hear the two rock through the EV’s and compared to the stock two rock 2x12 vertical cab.
Thanks for another wonderful installment.
YES! A rematch w/Celestion in a vertical 2*12, please!
Funny they disagreed about the Matchless. I thought the EV sounded better in every amp except the Marshall. But it still sounded good.
Oh man I love the old EVM12L’s. I used to use only high powered tube amps with 12L’s, always trying to get the most clean headroom I could. Those speakers will quickly reveal the holes in your playing - very unforgiving yet make you a better, cleaner player. They’re painfully heavy. And will surely deafen your audience and infuriate your sound engineer in short order. But to feel the power that they put at your fingertips, the clean volume that you always wished you could get out of your amp suddenly there in spades…very addictive!
Ah, great video. My favorite one so far. Well done!
I’m late to the party but I just purchased a Fender Rivera era 1983 Concert with that has EVM 12L and it is just magic, it’s heavy as can be but magic
First things first: You don't know me, but after watching you guys for years, it's almost like watching friends jamming.. Such a great show, and I hope you boys never quit!
2nd: First 2 amps, as you said, very easy.. Last 2, man that was much harder to choose!! Keep on rocking guys 😎 Cheers from Montreal
I've had an EVM12L for many years. In and out of various cabs. It's not Love/Hate, more like Love/Meh. I recently paired it with another orphan - the Eminence Commonwealth 12, another huge magnet high power JBL-ish monster. Put them in a closed back Bluesbreaker-style cab built by Lopo - a now-defunct USA cab builder. I wanted a big stereo cab. Obviously, it can go extreme but doesn't have to - it can do clean with infinite headroom. It also sounds surprisingly good with distortion/overdrive. Big cab, big magnets, big sound.
Did I just see Mick play a Dan like jazz lick at 12:10 or so?! Love you guys!
Thank you gentlemen, very interesting and god sounding episode. I would really like to hear an episode about old Boogie’s. Now you have the speakers the Mark-series was designed for, and we know that Mick knows his Boogies.🙂
This is an excellent video. My takeaway was actually that Matchless makes can outstanding cab and that those speakers are incredibly well matched. That one moment that Dan was playing the Matchless cab with the Marshall head, I saw 114 dB. Unreal. The audio in the cans was STUNNING.
I have the EV 12L's in a mesa 4x12 cab the best clean sound ever but they are heavy. I love this comparison because there was a real difference between the sounds but I guess more a personal preference for your taste would be the final choice, great video guys you should do more of these type video's!!!
I collected four EVM10M speakers for a 4X10, but now I am getting cold feet. Not really as strong as I used to be, and even if I use a little 1965-sized box it will be a bit of a lump. I guess that I have to try it out once. 🙉
Always interesting. Thanks, guys!
A really great comparison I'd like to hear would be modern high power AlNiCo drivers like the Celestion AlNiCo Cream and the Jensen Blackbird, and how they compare to both the EVM-12L and the Celestion Vintage 30. A lot of people don't realise that Celestion specifically designed the Vintage 30 to replicate as near as possible given the technology of its era, an AlNiCo Blue, albeit with higher power handling via a ceramic magnet, and for my money, until the AlNiCo Cream came out, the Vintage 30 was the closest you could get to a Blue that wouldn't self-destruct with bigger amps. But for me, the Cream is the Queen Bee, now. I haven't heard enough of the newer Jensens to have a firm opinion on them, but what I've heard is promising.
This was a really fun comparison!!
I’ve been using EV12l speakers for more than 30 years in a boogie mark1 and every amp I own. Never looked back.
I have a custom cab from Barefaced in UK with Celestian Vin30 in it; its great but I also have arriving in Malaysia from Barefaced this week the same model cab with a used 1992 EVM12S (the 300w version) in it; I'd done a lot of research online only - and decided the best thing to go for was the EVM - tho hard to find an old one.
I could hear a subtle but definite difference in your tests, It was like tasting decent Cadbury's chocolate then sampling some fine Belgium luxury chocolate, or having red wine then trying a Shiraz from South Australia! The EV is just that notch up more luxuriously indulgent and quality! Great test guys!!
Also both of you are extremely lyrical and creatively interesting players with massive talent! Im gonna rip off plenty of those riffs and harmonies you played on here - sound great!
Just a general warning to my fellow followers; the speaker rabbit hole is deep.
That is absolutely true
Yes 4 pulsonics, few alnico and heritage English speakers later I agree. Now ofcourse I need to embark on black face American tones
Yes but the vocal cords are important to something with a voice
The moment you get a loadbox an start experimenting with speaker IRs is the moment when your 3rd, 4th, and 5th eyes open and you start wanting to experiment with real speakers.
Really interesting - not only for the sound demos but for your takes on the outcome. As with all things in music, it really comes down to how easily and rapidly you can identify and hone in on a sound that inspires and propels you to the outer regions of artistic expression. I've never played through an EVM 12L but do own an EVM 15L. It has radically less upper mids and presence than my go-to speakers Celestion Cream Alnico and JBL D130. But if you compensate for the EQ disparity, the 15L is really wonderful and has the most incredibly beautiful attack you can imagine.
I liked the EV in everything but the Marshall. It seemed balanced and focused without getting abrasive or pokey in any one frequency.
Loved this Episode guys! Very Well Done!
Excellent comparisons, and great job exploring the relationship between amp and speaker. I keep a 1x12 ported Mesa cab with a 12L, and it sounds perfect with a Boogie, but it’s not “right” for a lot of other amps.
Good show, boys. Speakers are like guitars - it's hard to just have one! I built a couple of cabs to use with my amps. Nice pine boxes. One with a 12 inch alnico blue and one with the 10 inch alnico gold. I'm thinking about doing a cream back next. Rock on!
Couldn’t have timed this video better. I just purchased an EVM12L Classic!
If they did this show to tell everyone EVs sucked and they should avoid them- would you suddenly hate them? I seriously doubt it, and yet them validating your choice will no doubt make them sound even better.
@@stoneysdead689 their perspective does not matter to me. It is just interesting to hear what they have to say. I have already used the EVM12L for a couple of days and I think it sounds fantastic with a couple of specific type of guitar tones
So I watch your show while making my Saturday morning breakfast and my 2 cents is I didn't turn my head once for the sound of EV's. All of the artefacts you didn't like from the other speakers made them more interesting to my ears 👍
Hey Dan & Mick - Not re: EV Speakers but....A challenge for you!
You've some outside gigs coming up - festivals, garden parties, busking etc. - however being outside you've no access to mains power!....So the challenge is...
You need to put an amp & board together to cover a wide range of tones, relying on batteries only - easy right!
Not quite...there are a couple of rules:
1. You've no budget restrictions, but only a couple of days to pack, so both amp & pedals must be readily available, new & 2nd hand is fine, fast delivery - but no waiting lists allowed!
2. Being that you'll be on the road all summer, you can only use batteries commonly available from most shops - no 're-chargeable' battery packs, or car battery set-ups allowed! - only 9V, AA, AAA's etc.
3. In your rush to pack you've forgotten your screwdriver, so battery access for both amp & pedals has to be 'tool-free' - so budbox MXR screw style enclosures are out!
4. Finally, being dedicated tone-hounds you balk at built-in amp effects, so ALL tones must be produced from the pedals only - apart from amp reverb, that's a freebie :-)
I've recently been through a very similar experience, and with the ever increasing proliferation of pedals that due to small size or reliance on power hungry digital chips can only be run on mains power, it turned out to be a fun challenge in limitations!
Love to see a show on how you guys would approach it!
A Yamaha THR5 also has effects, same with the portable Boss(I would only consider using time based effects, and some mods(depends), but no drives. Roland Micro Cube? Blackstar Fly 3(has delay)
Most of these amps come with rechargeable batteries, and my next piece of gear can even recharge some of these batteries, but it may not be necessary.
Also, a car battery can power smaller solid state amps pretty easily.
Any lead-acid deep cycle batteries, i.e. for gold carts, campers, but you’ll need a power inverter(pure sine wave inverter). This gives ability to connect to the car battery, or other similar ones. There are power inverters with more than one outlet, so with an extension cord, one could power an amp and pedals.
One just has to select the right pedals, and a car battery can power a full board.
I say use solid state because they aren’t as temperature sensitive. There are many smaller SS combos, that don’t need a lot of juice, yet can get plenty loud enough for your scenario.
Battery powered speaker, with a combo amp is the best choice in my opinion.
The screwdriver thing, I’m not even going to address, because not being able to get access to one is a bit silly. One should have several in a gig bag, or backpack to start with, snd I’ve never had an issue getting one, or even using anything that can fit into the screw one needs to get out. Whether small amp to get to the batteries, or pedals.
I mean a simple google search can answer the heart of your scenario.
I would say the Roland Cube Street, is the best option. Takes 6 AA batteries, to give 50watts, has Reverb and modulation, looper(on the Street 2, which is also a few hundred cheaper). EX is the high end, but the 2 does many of the same things.
Holy crap. This sounds like a proper nightmare. Love it!
@@CorbCorbin Many thanks for the really helpful and useful advice, very much appreciated 😁👍🏻
Working within the limitations set - no amp fx, rechargeable or car batteries, or screwdriver available etc. - are the point of the 'fun' challenge though, and which, depending one's viewpoint, makes it 'fun' and challenges one to think differently into how one would approach getting as great a tone as possible with the limitations set😁
In reality one can usually source a long extension cord from a helpful individual to power ones dream-rig, but where's the fun in that 😁👍🏻
@@ThatPedalShow Go on then Dan, Mick - Accept the challenge! - Show us you're brave enough to tackle the nightmare! I await with baited breath for the results in the coming months 😁👍🏻
Another great video, Dan and Mick!
Nice - the EV’s immediately “opened” the upper mids, which can be really nice, especially for cleans - but wow, if the amp is a little “pokey” to compensate for dark speakers, the EVs are BRUTAL. 😬
Thanks for the explorations! Cheers.
Well said
Hi Guys...This was a very good episode, I agree with Mr Dumble's perspective and its one that I've had for years. Ive been using EV 12L's for years and have preferred the tones etc that are projected from them, especially from a closed back cabinet, like a 4-12 Marshall cab, all speakers removed except 2-12L's in stereo, and other speaker holes blocked off = lots of bass and when turned up loud you get beautiful crunch. Used a Boogie 50/50 amp and boogie V-Twin pre....yumO !! delicious... Thanks for the great reviews.
Greetings from Canada. 🤘
Slightly off-topic; I recently swapped the feeble Celestion Ten-30 (95dB) in my DSL5CR for an elderly 1980s150W Celestion Sidewinder (103dB). The differences were astonishing; gone was the fizzy and spiky top end, the overdrive smoothed out, and that 8dB increase in volume was enormous-to the point I would consider gigging it, un-mic'd. Guitar used is a Noventa Tele (P90) and awesome.
Niiiiice! That Celestion sounds awesome
That was VERY interesting guys! Thanks
Two thoughts, as someone who used EVM-15B’s and L’s for bass up until the mid 90’s, and has messed around w/12L’s in open-back guitar combos over the years: I wish I could have been in the room for this one. The volume jump, effortless headroom and transient response don’t translate well to video, regardless of what we use for monitors at home. Secondly, EV-loaded cabs are NOT fun to lug down a flight of stairs at the end of a long night. And the extra weight will tear up a light, vintage-Fender style pine cab in no time at all, assuming you can even squeeze the massive magnet structure into the box in the first place.
My favorite cab is a narrower 4-12 staggered speaker, Silvertone with bottom tapered in the back for it's two built-in grill style axle'd wheels. Leave the lower right speaker out and run two Celestion G12M 70's in the upper left and right, and an EVM12L in lower left. Sounds amazing and you'll love the ease of moving it. Nice handle on the upper back.
You guys, this is very interesting. I don’t have access to the real thing like you do, but in the modeling world I’ve found that my favorite speaker combo in my HX Stomp with almost every amp model is the Mesa Boogie mk IV 1x12 + Boogie mk IV extension cab with EVM12L. It seems to bring a balanced, neutral tone to each amp. I don’t yet know how it sits in a mix though, and I wonder if that’s where other speakers with more character shine.
Awesome! I love it. Again this is an example of when your show is at its best. Indeed it was fascinating how the EV is not the best all around. Further you mentioned how a small amp caving in is not useful for Live Performance, but for recording.....INDEED. Because we are listening to a "recording" of your show, I thought the Princeton sounded awesome. This is why we need your perception of what you are hearing in the room.
Yeah man, exactly that! There’s a show coming up in a week or three that really digs into that. Recording and live - totally different sports!
@@ThatPedalShow you’re literally the only show who does this. Thank you 🙏
I really liked what it did to the Princeton the most! Strong-boned. I now have a suspicion that a tweed deluxe reissue with an EV12 will probably get me pretty close to my ideal tone.
Good one, can’t wait to get home and rewatch through the good speakers on the big tv. Greetings and salutations from Muscle Shoals Alabama hit recording capital of the world 🌍
Interesting comparison, i would have placed the boogie cab on its side to prevent the angled speaker from hitting you differently than the stock cabs. I’d be interested in seeing this comparison done with Mick’s Super Reverb and the Hiwatt.
Thank you Mic & Dan!!! Very good 'real world' comparisons, guys! I played EVMs in my various amps for a short while, (mostly in a '64 BFDR) but I found, except for a few amps that work with EVMs (THD Plexi's on really large stages), they are much better for sound reinforcement - monitors, PA, FOH, etc, for me. EV Force speakers (Which I also used for a short while) were much better because they actually had a bit of a mid hump and much less bass response. Still - I went back to Jensen C's, '50s Old Jensen AlNiCo's, Celestion Blues, Greenback 25's, Vintage 30's, etc. All have their place and all work well, overall, but I found that each speaker plays a specific role. One must find what that role is for ones own needs.
Got one in my Ampeg vl503. Sounds great. 40 kilos of tone. It stays home.
Fascinating video, gents, and I was actually surprised by the correctness of my expectations! With those littler amps, an all-devouring speaker like an EV lets you hear parts of the amplifier circuit that just don't make it through the transformer-to-speaker conversion, but with a powerful amp designed for use with a cab, it's way too easy to spotlight parts of the tone that were *meant* to be drowned by a quad of Greenbacks or the G12M+G12H pairing. I thought the latter 2 amps both had an edge of unpleasant, thin treble, almost a piezo or DI sound, along with the bass boost. (Interesting as well how hearing more of the Marshall circuit and less of the whole 4x12 experience brought out the tweed Fender lineage too, I thought.)
Steve Harris from Iron Maiden still plays the EVM 12ls in Marshall 4x12 cabs. Can't imagine what those cabs weigh.
Holy crap. Bonamassa does too. Road crew!
The sound is gloriously magnificent and beautiful, and my chiropractor suggests that everyone takes that route.
I see what you did here lol... You gentlemen really are the best tone detectives on the web. Bravo Sirs!!
I bought an old Mesa Metal grill 2x12 for 100 bucks locally, They guy said the top speaker was shot, and it was. Ripped in half, said he didn't know what was in the bottom. Gave him 100 bucks, brought it home and it was an EVM12L. WooHoo. Mesa loaded these cabs with an MC90 up top and the 12L on the bottom. But I had an M65 Creamback laying around and threw it in. I don't know, with my Mark IV it sounds killer. I mostly play with gain, hard rock and metal. I may just leave it in, although I've heard guys like the maker of Scumback speaker who's says not to mix small and large magnet speakers. I don't know, like I said, sounds great.
Excellent video, good job !!!
As an ev-12L fan I would recommend you guys try a modern celestial redback 150w speaker. I love mine it’s actually a bit darker and smoother than an ev.
Cool! Isn't that the Eric Johnson Celestion?
Guys... Great content 👍
This is probably the most interesting episode so far.
EV's sound great, surely a high quality speaker. But courses for horses. High quality amps usually have high quality speakers and have done their R&D hence you can't mess with the Matchless.
Keep up with your tone quest ! Much love and appreciation 👍
I thought the Matchless sounded better with the EV, very noticeably better, couldn't say that about the Marshall.
Not speaker related but Mick should definitely keep playing that Les Paul - he sounds like “himself” when he plays it. It is wonderful to hear.
Upon reflection, another take away for me as someone who is pretty attracted to resilient speakers and high headroom amps, I get how it's "courses for horses" or/and "goodness of fit". I like how so much of it is also mood related. We like some things more sometimes than others (totally remaining unclever here!).
In the mid-1970s I used a silver faced Fender Twin with these wonderful speakers. EV is (was?) based in Michigan (my home) and switching to EV speakers was fairly ubiquitous among the serious rockers of my set. The "beast" sounded like the heavens opening, but it took two men to move it.
Most excellent experimentation. I've always wanted to pick up a set of EVM12Ls.
After each finger snap, I had to close my eyes and shake my head to try to keep from being overwhelmed by EVAwesome. I love the stock sounds on every one of those amps but I’d sure love to have an EV cab loitering in the studio to swap in,from time to time
I used a Boogie 2X12, like yours, Celestion cream back open back top and EV 12L in closed back bottom powered by a Boogie Mark II B, for several years. 15 feet out in front, that cabinet would kill the patrons in small bars who sat close to the band, while the slant top, playing at my bum, sounded fine. Used EV's in several other ways back in the day, driving my crazy that I cannot have a conversation with you guys for a few minutes, but understand how big the demands on your time must be these days.
They were closer than I expected; less EQ difference. I'm about 50/50 in terms of preference with all the amps; it really just depends on the song, the context, what I'd be trying to accomplish. tl;dr it all sounded good and has a place!
As an EVM12L user for over 35 years (I have that boogie cab as well!), I love them, but the weight can be a problem - I recently swapped EVMs in my fender DR modded amps with Jensen Tornado neo 12/100 drivers and was shocked that they gave nothing up to the EVs in these particular amps - they had all the bottom end as well as a little bit of sparkle that had been missing from the EVs. I like these speakers a lot (I play a wide range of rock/jazz/pop) and if you can find them I’d suggest you check them out. The ones I own have been out of production for a few years but I understand the new ones are also great.
Jensen tornado 100 is a GREAT speaker!!
In the 80's we always looked for old P.A. stacks that had EV speakers in them for all our keggar parties with live music. The Peavey Black Widows that were replacing alot of stuff, just couldn't hang when the going got rough. Never had any EV speaker blow, that I can remember? We pounded those things to death every weekend without fail. Wish I had an old set. Recently took a shot on a set of the new import Yamaha model DHR15s. They make them outside of Japan now in a brand new factory in India. Keeps the price reasonable and you still get the Pro model Yamaha 7yr. factory warranty. Real wood cabinets are soo much better sounding than the cheap plastic crap most brands are using now. If your going up with them more than 3-4ft. to a stand, you just use the anchors and hoist them right up.
I was lucky enough to get a pair of 8ohm 1979 EVM12Ls from the original owner. They came out of old PA cabinets that he owned since 1982 and ran as a part of a larger sound system. As soon as I put them in my TL806 (Thiele) cabs, it just sounded RIGHT. I haven’t wanted any other guitar cabinets/speakers since, and I’m crossing my fingers that still have get some good life/time out of them (they are 43 years old!)
In the case of the Princeton. I know a lot of folks end up modifying baffles & squeezing various 12" speakers in them. Personally I think a Princeton in a Deluxe sized cab with a 12" would be a cool thing for little club gigs. Oh and a lot of the Rivera era 80's Fenders had EV's too. You guys should try to score something like a Super Champ to check out.
I have a Rivera era Super Champ and a 2 x 12 EV SRO cab, saving up to get a custom combo cab for one of the EV SRO 12s and the Super Champ. May be the end of my quest, if my back can take lifting it!
I’ve had several Princeton’s with 12s. I still use a 64 with a Weber alnico Q cone. Depending on what model speaker and how efficient it is you can gig the Princeton anywhere. This set up is nice as it sounds classic and has a bit more kick. Doesn’t weight much. If I need more I have a vibroluxe or super. Other times i put a v30 in there and got quite a cutting sound. Was never not loud enough for me.
If upgrading the Princeton speaker, upgrade of the output tx is certainly worth considering as Mick alludes to here. I installed a Celestion Blue with an Allen TO20 output tx and wow, what a difference. Next step was to also upgrade the power tx with help from T.A.D. who supplied the fatter iron. Final tweaks included the 'Stokes' mod to provide the PI tube with a sensible voltage + replace the 6V6s with a pair of 6L6s and BOOM, what a sweet sounding little 24-watt gig worthy package I've now got!
I had a 74 silver face Twin with 2 "coffee can" EVs. I assume the previous owner must've dropped the amp because it was so freaking heavy that the cabinet was coming apart. It was quite wobbly transporting the beast so I traded it in.
I believe Jerry Garcia was known to separate Twins to make into a head/cab in the early '70s with the other high watt, weighty 120 JBL speakers..
I had that amp too, before you had it I think. Sounded like a hifi stereo.
It was mine, damn i miss that thing
Guitarist I know in Dead cover band nails the Garcia tone with a reissue Deluxe reverb and a swapped in JBL...
I gigged a pair of EV 12Ls in 1x12 cabs for many years with a Triaxis/395 stereo rack rig and loved that rig. IMO the best way to configure EVs for weight and handling power.
Also had the 4x12 half back C90/EV Boogie cab with a Mark IIB and later a Mark III.
Kept a Boogie 2x12 halfback just like Mick’s cab at our church with a greenback top/G75T bottom I plugged a Fender Super Champ XD into. Sounded much better than the stock speaker!
This is making me happy. Mick here. :0)
2 Rock CRS and Victory V140 stereo wet, with 2 Rock TS1 Dry. All pushing EV 12s....sweet dreams are made of this.
Holy. Shit.
Great comparison and observations !. I play an early 80's 50 watt JCM 800, thru a 4x12 cab converted to hold 2 EV 15'Ls, (and on rare occasions I plug into a pair or EV 15"Bs). My JCM has 6550 power tubes, and I use a Tube Works Blue Tube in the Effects loop, as a "tube EQ", to create clear lows & highs that the midrange based JCM was formerly uncapable of. I play in a lot of un-mic'd outdoor jams, my 2x15" cab, and at a matched stage volume level with the other guitarists, (who are using 1, 2, or 4x12" rigs), my amp always gets heard by the spectators at the far end of the acreage, and shows up more prominently in the audio recordings made by them. I think that you, Mick & Pete, should take this current EV 12" experiment to the next stage, and run various guitar amps thru 15"s !. I believe the playing demands of Dick Dale inspired the Fender Dual Showman with a 2x15" cabinet, and I have seen Keith Richards & The Expensive Winos playing thru 1980's vertical 2x15" cabs, (like Mick's vertical 2x12"). 15"s won't be right for everyone, or every rig, but I think there are some eye-opening attributes to them, that you guys could explore !
I have a 2 x 15 cab early 60s Fender with JBL's in it and it is a killer sound with my 62 Bandmaster. 15s are a different beast and fun to play with.
Woah! What a rig! Intrigued!
Who is Pete?
yes they are - end video LOL!!! and do not forget Rivera era stuff with EVM 10
My favorite sounds were from the gold top into the Matchless with the greenbacks. Thanks for doing the comparisons!
Yes indeed