Trying to showcase a technique in such short amount of time requires very concise information and simplification while maintaining communication that much is based on speculation. I’m interested to collaborate on much longer videos dedicated to these topics
the method you describe seems to be indicated by some medieval russian crucifixion icons though it could also be just two fingers under the arrow with the index finger curved around the arrow but when i tried that i had to bring my thumb to pinch it otherwise it would throw the arrow up (keep in mind i know very little about this subject and don't currently have historical archery equipment so i cannot say that this is any bit conclusive to what they actually did )
One thing I think that is worth asking, is can the technique be performed with a war-bow strength bow? For whatever was considered 'war-bow' strength for the time, that is (it's not as simple as "war-bows start at 70#") Or maybe a better way to put it would be: does it get increasingly harder to execute the technique as poundage increases? Not hard as in takes a lot of effort, it's always going to take effort, but hard as in it becomes increasingly harder to perform the technique (and so requires more effort) as the poundage increases? Think of a graph: - X axis is poundage - Y axis is effort required with a single line that has an upwards and curved slope (yes it's a force/draw curve, kinda, but effort is subjective). A 'bad' technique will scale badly: as poundage increases, effort increases at a greater and greater rate, with the line quickly shooting up. A 'good' technique will scale better: the line will be a lot smoother, with the effort required for a full (and steady) draw increasing in some proportion to the poundage. Yes, this is a mirror of "stacking". Idiots please note: I am in no way saying that techniques that work with higher-poundage bows are 'better', I'm saying that some techniques scale better. One thing I've found in my practice (I'm currently focusing on Gao Ying, as it seems to be a good foundation if I want to move to other styles later on (and I do!)) is that what worked with a lower-poundage bow suddenly stops working when I go up 10-15#. It's basically two steps forward, "oh, THAT'S what I wasn't doing right" and then a step back in poundage so I can focus on that particular issue 🙂 Although since I FINALLY bought a copy of "The Way Of Archery" I've stopped the back and forth and can now focus (with a low poundage bow) on technique with a far clearer focus. Liking the content BTW! p.s. To people thinking that my argument is "go higher poundage or go home" - you're cute 🙂
It's dependent on how well trained you are. There are some tribes in Papua New Guinea that use a form of tertiary draw on 100Ib bows. There was a time where a Persian technique '23' (a thumb lock) was difficult for me to do even on a 45Ib bow, but with support of the thumb ring and some training it became smooth and simple. There are some that are for specific contexts (like the primary draw) that wouldn't naturally work anywhere else, however a technique that gives you any leverage over the string can become stronger and more intuitive with some training.
Hey, a question on arrows: do we have any idea if the Byzantines at any period used 4-fletch (vs. 3-fletch) arrows? 4 smaller profile fletches in a "X-wing" configuration allow knocking in either direction, so faster. I know there is some material evidence of 4-fletch arrows amongst various Steppe peoples. I've had some made up and am trying them out with my Grozer Assyrian bow for funzies. Thanks!
archaeology for archery among the Romans is scarce, especially given the organic materials. The most we have is arrowheads, many of them appearing as varieties of Tribolate, with some flat, and one for hunting birds. I can only say that I personally prefer 4 fletched arrows just because its easier to blind nock, thus its better for shooting efficiency, which is a source evident characteristic of training in this time period.
Hey man thanks for the expansion. My shorts are under 60 seconds so it will never be sufficient for this broad topic
Trying to showcase a technique in such short amount of time requires very concise information and simplification while maintaining communication that much is based on speculation. I’m interested to collaborate on much longer videos dedicated to these topics
Good work!!!Salutations from Leontes the historical European Martial Arts club of Greece where the students also learn Byzantine Hoplomachia.
Excellent presentation!
Compliments for Your great research work!
The two finger + thumb draw at the left side of the bow (right handed archer) is a common draw in Java amongst elderly traditional archers
the method you describe seems to be indicated by some medieval russian crucifixion icons though it could also be just two fingers under the arrow with the index finger curved around the arrow but when i tried that i had to bring my thumb to pinch it otherwise it would throw the arrow up (keep in mind i know very little about this subject and don't currently have historical archery equipment so i cannot say that this is any bit conclusive to what they actually did )
Nice topic. Well done 👊😃
One thing I think that is worth asking, is can the technique be performed with a war-bow strength bow? For whatever was considered 'war-bow' strength for the time, that is (it's not as simple as "war-bows start at 70#") Or maybe a better way to put it would be: does it get increasingly harder to execute the technique as poundage increases? Not hard as in takes a lot of effort, it's always going to take effort, but hard as in it becomes increasingly harder to perform the technique (and so requires more effort) as the poundage increases?
Think of a graph:
- X axis is poundage
- Y axis is effort required
with a single line that has an upwards and curved slope (yes it's a force/draw curve, kinda, but effort is subjective).
A 'bad' technique will scale badly: as poundage increases, effort increases at a greater and greater rate, with the line quickly shooting up.
A 'good' technique will scale better: the line will be a lot smoother, with the effort required for a full (and steady) draw increasing in some proportion to the poundage.
Yes, this is a mirror of "stacking".
Idiots please note: I am in no way saying that techniques that work with higher-poundage bows are 'better', I'm saying that some techniques scale better.
One thing I've found in my practice (I'm currently focusing on Gao Ying, as it seems to be a good foundation if I want to move to other styles later on (and I do!)) is that what worked with a lower-poundage bow suddenly stops working when I go up 10-15#. It's basically two steps forward, "oh, THAT'S what I wasn't doing right" and then a step back in poundage so I can focus on that particular issue 🙂
Although since I FINALLY bought a copy of "The Way Of Archery" I've stopped the back and forth and can now focus (with a low poundage bow) on technique with a far clearer focus.
Liking the content BTW!
p.s. To people thinking that my argument is "go higher poundage or go home" - you're cute 🙂
I’ve done all of them with a 100lb how
@@HistoricalWeapons Cool!
It's dependent on how well trained you are. There are some tribes in Papua New Guinea that use a form of tertiary draw on 100Ib bows. There was a time where a Persian technique '23' (a thumb lock) was difficult for me to do even on a 45Ib bow, but with support of the thumb ring and some training it became smooth and simple. There are some that are for specific contexts (like the primary draw) that wouldn't naturally work anywhere else, however a technique that gives you any leverage over the string can become stronger and more intuitive with some training.
Hey, a question on arrows: do we have any idea if the Byzantines at any period used 4-fletch (vs. 3-fletch) arrows? 4 smaller profile fletches in a "X-wing" configuration allow knocking in either direction, so faster. I know there is some material evidence of 4-fletch arrows amongst various Steppe peoples. I've had some made up and am trying them out with my Grozer Assyrian bow for funzies. Thanks!
archaeology for archery among the Romans is scarce, especially given the organic materials. The most we have is arrowheads, many of them appearing as varieties of Tribolate, with some flat, and one for hunting birds. I can only say that I personally prefer 4 fletched arrows just because its easier to blind nock, thus its better for shooting efficiency, which is a source evident characteristic of training in this time period.