Exactly, buy the bike you like and enjoy it. A bike as an investment is not only a huge gamble it's also a poor ownership experience, you won't want to get it wet or dirty, and how would you feel if/when you drop it. Sometimes you might get lucky come resale time, most often you won't but you'll have had a great time.
I bought an old bike that looked lovely in the pics. When it turned up it wasn’t quite the spanking machine. Spent way more than I should have, but enjoyed doing it. Will I get my money back? Nope 😊
I agree l have never bought a motorbike as an investment. However, one l bought, a Vincent Rapide, did greatly increase in value over the years l owned it.
In the same vein - my first foray back to bikes after 30 years was an eye opener. I bought a 1985 GPZ900R. Fantastic fun until things started going wrong - forks, headers, brake lines etc. It became a money pit. Next bike was a K1200S - what a pleasure. It didn't turn heads as much as the Kwacker but was such a joy to ride.@@jasonk7072
looking back at age 70 it's not the money I might of made that I think of; it's the lifetime of adventure and experiences. Bikes are for riding. I didn't buy my Suzuki GT 750's to make money. I have investments for that. The bolt of lightening that hit the ground next to me in a sudden dump of hail at Bryce Canyon on my 75 GT is something I will never forget.
Dear Freddie, thanks so much for your entertaining efforts discussing motorcycles. I am 74 now, my first bike being a 49cc puch, sold by sears as the Allstate compact, I bought used in 1963 with money I earned from my paper route. It was the beginning of a lifelong relationship with motorcycles. I’ve never had a “stable” of bikes, I’ve gone years at times without one, but I’m still enjoying riding. I’ve had several Hondas over the years, a Yamaha xs1100 that required a firm grip on the bars, as it was quicker than anything I had ridden before! After I sold the Goldwing for $2000 more than I paid for it, I bought my first BMW, a K1200LT. What a surprise, a huge heavy tourer, loaded with tech, and rode like a sport bike..loved it, but alas my wife quit riding with me, and the bike ended up sitting in the garage longer than it should, so I sold it, thinking that my riding days were over..I retired at 73, and immediately boredom set in. While perusing marketplace, I came across a ‘79 Honda XL250s, for $125..the accompanying photos showed the bike still had all its bits, and a title, and it was close by…boredom solved! I sent many glorious hours in the garage cleaning and fixing it up, and when finished, I had a total of about $500 in it…sold it for $1500 right away. I then spotted a 2003 BMW F650cs running, not wrecked just listed on marketplace, for $1000, I don’t think I had seen any BMW that could be ridden home for a grand! My thought was to bring it home, clean it up, and make a tidy profit…my problem now is that I can’t get off of it, it is an oddity for BMW, weird styling, only made for 4 years, but it has this bucket cargo space on the “tank” (fuel is actually under the seat) that is perfect for throwing groceries, a 12 pack of Corona bottles, takeout, whatever, in it, and I just love riding it, has fuel injection, ABS brakes, heated grips..I’m stuck..actually had it listed for sale, and deleted the posting.. Freddie…I don’t know what to do about this affliction!!
Freddie, on the subject of classic bike prices and future investment, in general the people with the most disposable income tend to be in their 40's, 50's and 60's, hence the bikes and cars which have higher prices are the ones that these people remember from their youth. Back in the 80's and 90's the value of 1930's cars rocketed, but the value of these cars has changed little in the last 15 years, and often in a downward trajectory. There will always be exceptions to this rule such as rare Ferrari's or Ducati's etc, but for a bog standard mass production car or motorcycle this trend tends to hold true. The value of early 2000's rare bikes such as Ducati 916 - 998's or Honda VTR1000 SP1 etc are increasing fast, but the price of 1930's - 1950's are not changing much at all.
I still have my 1979 Suzuki GS750, I bought in 1984, wrote off in 1986, rebuilt in 1987, modified and tuned through the 80's and 90's and put back on the road this year after a full restoration. In the last 39 years its been my commuting bike in all weathers including snow, weekend sports bike, touring bike, albatross around my neck, money pit, and now its my show bike I only ride when the weather is just perfect.
I think you may be right Freddie. The bottom could very well drop out of the classic pricing when the generation that remembers them is gone. There may be a cyclical thing here. I know when I bought my 1977 BMW R100/7 it was my dream bike from the year that I started riding but could never afford one. When my kids were grown and I had disposable cash I went on the search for one. Not sure if the current generation will have that kind of nostalgic connection to current machines but if they do it will only last while they are still alive. I will pass the R100 on to my son and he will appreciate it but only because he remembers helping me search for and restore the bike. Not because it was a bike of his time.
I buy what makes me happy and used. I have never bought a new bike. I always let someone else take the hit on depreciation. It's pretty easy to find a 2 year old bike with 2k miles on it with a good discount.
Apologies in advance, the Bart Simpson inside my head won't leave me alone . . . somewhere in a bar in Springfield "Is there Mr Janus here .. A Hugh Janus ?" .. there I said it . . annnnnnd relaxxxxx. Love the channel.
It's nice when you you have finished your dinner done all the chores and you can sit down and relax and enjoy an episode of Tuesday at Dobbs. Thanks freddie!
What a fantastic idea is MotoRelief - to do this for Vets and First Responders etc is wonderful. I was never fortunate (???) enough to be posted overseas to a Combat Zone but now battling cancer, can fully appreciate how valuable riding in similar company can be to your physical and mental well-being. Caring for all of our returning Vets SHOULD be a priority for ALL of our Western Governments - sadly, it’s individuals setting up programs like this that bear the brunt. God Bless them. Really enjoying TaD’s. Thanks 😁👍🇦🇺
The Janus caught my attentio recently and i am Fascinated by its 1920's design especially that fuel tank and handle bar, hope RE can make a similar model
Freddie. Here’s a thought about carbs and EFuels that you might like to share. Today while riding my Aprilia Pegaso Cube ( 650 single twin carbs) to keep the E10 fuel from sitting too long, I had an epiphany. If you have any carb bikes with manual petcock with a reserve position, listen carefully. One of the problems with Ethanol-degraded (can’t call it enhanced) fuel is that over time, the alcohol settles out of the fuel and collects at the bottom of the container it is in, because it’s more dense than petrol. Carbs have float bowls which are a sort of container, but there is a dip tube that goes right to the bottom of the bowl so any alcohol that gathers there will be sucked up and eliminated, if the engine is run periodically. But the fuel tank is different (but not really, read on), if used as per the owner’s manual and common practice. I.e. turn the petcock to the “on” position for normal fuel levels then switch the petcock to the reserve position in any or all of the following situations occur: engine stumbles and refuses to run, fuel gauge read low, fuel warning light comes on. All that depends on your bike and how it is equipped. This means that, except for when a rider draws the tank down to almost empty, every bike with a reserve-enabled petcock, is riding around with an ever growing puddle of alcohol or water (explained later) or water-infused alcohol, at the bottom of their tanks. Because they rarely switch to reserve for more than is necessary to get to the next petrol station. The only time the fuel/alcohol/water at the bottom is drawn down is when the petcock is switched to reserve AND the bike is run like that until empty or almost empty. But who wants to risk running out? So here’s my solution: run in the reserve position, ALL THE TIME. It’s important to know when you’re going to run out, and that depends on the bike. My Pegaso has a low fuel warning light so when that comes on I know I still have at least 5L because that’s the reserve and the light comes on several miles before the engine starts to splutter. This way you are ALWAYS drawing down the fuel at the bottom of the tank. This means that no liquids that are lighter than petrol can gather there for any longer than the time the bike sits between rides. Even if one runs expensive E5 fuel ( some have no alcohol) or alcohol free petrol, water can still gather at the bottom of the tank. How? Condensation. When the moisture in the air in your tank above the fuel, cools down ( think, during a cold night) it condenses on the insides of the tank. Once that condensation is thick enough it coalesces into droplets that run down the tank and into the petrol. Once there, it sinks to the bottom. Repeat this cycle many times and a considerable amount of water can collect. And filling the tank regularly isn’t the solution either because any moisture on the tank walls before filling, will simply be washed into the fresh petrol and gather at the bottom. Operators of light aircraft are very familiar with this concept. The rule is fill your tanks after every flight (to eliminate air/moisture from above the fuel. And draw of enough fuel from the bottom of EVERY tank before each flight, until you can see the water/fuel separation line in the special, clear beaker that every light aircraft carries. The tanks are specially equipped with draw off point for this purpose. Once you are sure all the alcohol is in the beaker and not the tank, you can proceed with the rest of the pre flight checks. Running one’s bike on reserve, all the time is the road going equivalent of this aviation procedure. Their procedure eliminates the water before the engine starts because the last thing a pilot needs is a stumbling engine in take off. We bikers cannot duplicate this total elimination practice without modifying our fuel systems, which isn’t easy, believe me, I’ve looked into it.
Thanks for that. I thought I had proof read my entry well, but apparently not well enough. I have corrected the error. Water is MORE dense than petrol and that’s why it sinks to the bottom.
@@jimwyer4257 thought it must be just an over site for someone that thinks like you do which is a good way of thinking ie: point one think about things, point 2 nothing else matters.
Carbureted bikes run fine on E10. That's all I have near me. I think the 80's and 90's sports bikes will start to gain in value in the next couple decades, but you're not going to retire by scooping up a bunch of them and waiting to sell. There's a reason why a Vincent Black Shadow or a Brough Superior is so frickin' expensive... there weren't that many of them made. (And they're a quality machine.) With the mass production of modern bikes, you won't have the scarcity big money factor when it comes to 80's and 90's motorcycles. I've never been a sports bike guy, but some of the 80's sports bikes have started to become interesting to me. (Bikes like the mid 80's Honda Interceptors.)
Once again Freddie a very interesting post, I am in my 60's and the 80's Japanese bikes are my favourites, when my generation have gone so will the love of these 80's bikes. the next generation will love the 90's bikes and so on....
Hi Simon .My keeper is a Royal Enfield 500cc wiat for it Diesel . Shes a 1963 fully restored . I love to ride the bike and certanly turns heads . She sounds line a tractor but with a lrge fly wheel its so smooth. 150 MPG would carry 4 people with out any drop in performance . Please give it a mention . Buily for the Indain army and retored i n New Delhi . Totaly rebuilt and stunning . 👍👍👍👍
When I think of the value of anything, I’m reminded of the line in Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the lost Ark, when Indie’s nemesis says, “Take this worthless pocket watch, $10 from a vendor on the streets, I bury it in the sand and 1000 years from now it’s priceless.” And thus rarity typically equals value.
I have been wondering why I like these up loads of yours "not a last comment" And the penny has just droped it is like when I was 16 years old in a shed with my mates cold damp but a few beers and sadly smoking ourselves to death BUT JUST TALKING BIKES NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS !!!!!!!!!! How cool is that ?????????????
I have a Suzuki Goose 350 limited edition, it is a great little bike but do not seem to be many left in the uk. There is an FB page, but no action on that page for several years.
I buy a motorcycle to have fun be it touring - track riding- adventure riding whatever I have never bought a motorcycle for resale value also Freddie what gives a motorcycle soul/character as I don’t believe a motorcycle has these things 😊
A problem with the 90's sports bikes is that the young people who rode them when they were 25 are now 55. I'm 66 and I rode Kawasaki triples when I was young. But even though I love those bikes they're too rowdy for me now and today I ride a new Moto Guzzi V7 Special and a 1977 BMW R75/7, two bikes I wouldn't have considered in 1974 but are perfectly suited for me now. I considered ordering a Janus Halcyon but I couldn't come to grips with the 1970's Honda engine in the 1920's chassis.
Great to see Janus making it to your channel, Freddie! I have an ADV bike and this would bring some balance to my garage. Always enjoy your (and Monica's) content!
I’m glad you like my 1998 heritage springer Freddie. They really are appreciating classics. I got almost 60k on the clock now, so mine probably isn’t appreciating in value as well as others. But I’ll keep it till I’m gone and pass it down to the next generation. If you find one for sale, get one made in 2000. That’s when they went to fuel injection. Mine has a carb. That I’ve never touched, works perfectly.
congratulations on bike of the week! Also wanted to say I agree with your perspective on the Japanese Sports-bikes. Nice to see that you listed some sports-bikes that you like, often people just spout that they dont like them flat out. Personally im not a fan of them, but still like to try and see how someone else may like them :)
In 1985 I wanted a Norton commando 750 so I bought an RD500lc. In 1986 I wanted a Vincent black shadow so I bought a GSXR750j. In 1988 I still wanted a black shadow so I bought a Harley 883. In 1995 I still wanted a Vincent so I got a Dyna low rider. I now have a '99 Harley FXDL and although it's not a Vincent it's the right bike for me. Happy days from sunny Devon.
Bought a 1995 Guzzi California in 2008 with under 25,000 km on the clock for £2800. Sold it in 2022 with over 75,000 km on the clock for £2700. Beautiful, great bike. Could probably have held out for more going by prices on auto trader/ eBay at the time. Definitely an all time classic. IMO.
Morning 😎👍 some good points on future classics made. I’m knocking on 40’s door and the bikes I was raised around in the 80’s and 90’s are not holding the interest that the 60’s and 70’s bikes did. I like that as “ I being poor have only my dreams” and have 6 bikes with the youngest being a 1998 GSXF600 (which I paid £1 for in px with a 125) . I’ve never paid more than £1000 for a bike and I enjoy them all, even the maintenance (less and less garages wanted to deal with them, except the older spanner monkeys who are a dying/retiring breed 😢) I’m a 4th gen rider and thinking about it my mother, father, grandfather and great grandfather would all avoid the sporty lean forward riding positions with complaints of wrist, shoulder and back discomfort. Now I’m getting a bit longer in the tooth I find the GSXF600 and ZX6R riding positions a tad more uncomfortable now compared to the ZL600 and EN500 crusier-ish styled bikes that I can cover all day riding with only stopping for: fuel, food, coffee and a smoke on multiple day explorations and adventures around the U.K. not so much the prior 2 maybe 2hrs and then stop for the usual PLUS pain meds 🤦♂️🤷♂️😂🤣 We where mad for sports bikes in the 90’s and early 00’s but possibly that’s why the modern retros are still performing strong now 🤔 our body’s are just not… as youthful as our brains are 🤷♂️🤣.
Hi Freddie I’m thoroughly enjoying watching Tuesday at Dobbs keep up the great work just got home from work dinner on my lap and another quality watch from you both regards ian
When my Vauxhall Viva HB was stolen in 1981, whilst I was in the process of moving stuff from my girlfriend’s flat to my house (we were moving in together), the thieves stole my Rhodesian issue combat jacket (leaving me with just my shirt and trousers which no longer fit me). After the car was recovered near a housing estate, I experienced the 1980s version of PTSD: meaning I staked out the local pubs in the hope of catching someone wearing my jacket. Then SIS hatched the plan to boost Thatcher’s popularity by withdrawing from negotiations with Argentina over the Falklands/Malvinas, thus giving the junta the impression that the UK government didn’t care about the islands. And so PTSD was invented to explain why lads get upset after bayoneting conscripts in rainswept dugouts, after yomping overt the mountains and drinking peat water, due to the pesky Argies sank the ship with all the choppers. Modern PTSD is more about killing women and children in countries illegally invaded on behalf of the psychopathic elites and the powers that shouldn’t. Peace
Point of order: the forks on the Janus are leading link, but not Earles type. The distinguishing feature of Earles forks is that the pivot is behind the wheel. Anyway, regarding retro bikes, are you aware of the Kawasaki Drifter of 20-odd years ago? I had one for about 5 years back then, and it was brilliant. When rapidly-advancing decrepitude forces me to give up my GL1500, I may seek out another, if I can find one that hasn't been dressed up as a fake Indian tribute act.
Only a few bikes are investment bikes and most are never ridden. It’s like watches, a few models can be classed as investment and kept in a safe. Don’t look at bikes as money investment but as pleasure investment, riding or restoring. I have mobility issues and have two Zx7r that I can’t sit on but I am enjoying refreshing one and the other making into a stripped race bike. I might have to adapt them for me to ride. Why 1999/2002 bike? Because they are fun, easy to work on, look superior to modern day bikes In the mean time I will enjoy my DRZ400sm 😂
@@tuesdayatdobbs When it was stolen I was heartbroken...but I actually found it a few days later as I was riding on a bus. I looked out of the window and saw it propped up down a side street not a few miles from home. Got off at the next stop and went to retrieve it, but it had been absolutley destroyed by the theives - ignition ripped out, fuel cap broken off, indicators and body panels missing. I recovered it with the help of a friend's van, but it wasn't salvageable by me so I sold the remains to a collector who vowed to restore it. Somewhere, my Goose lives on, so there's happy ending!
I am 84 and still riding all year round . I have owned dozens of bikes but now ride a 90s Honda Rebel 250 . It not fast but who needs thst these days with all the restrictions . Its comfortable , economicsl , easy to maintain and utterly reliable . I think people are sick of all the useless tech on moderm bikes . I think smaller bikes have a good chance of becoming rideable classics it's not about making money it's about having fun .
*They're not sick of the tech. They just don't really use it.* But in their minds for the price the bike should have "extras." A word that describes things we don't really need.
Weather: I live in Sweden and it's no longer really possible to ride, Some people ride through the winter here, but thats's very rare as our temps drop well below -10 deg C.
I found the topic on modern classic sports bikes, very interesting. The comments on them, not being a good, future investment surprised me. It makes sense I do have a soft spot for those early 90s Japanese sports bikes. Especially the 93 Fireblade. They may not become as popular as the bikes of the 70s and 80s but i still think they will go up in value for awhile yet.. ?
I can’t add to the discussion re classic Japanese bikes as this isn’t something I am interested in, but on the other hand Italian bikes and especially Ducatis, and some specific models are a sure bet re investment values increasing. My brother in law late last year sold his mid ‘70s 750 Super Sport for around $100k. He bought the bike some 7-8 years ago and paid around $45K for it. Basically, given auction results pretty much any bevel Ducati from the 1970s is a sure bet investment, if you can get one for a good price. Similarly, the Sport Classic 1000, the 848 and 916 series bikes also are an excellent investment, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing happens for the Panigale range of bikes. So my basic point is, it’s not all doom and gloom but choose wisely. In the meantime enjoy your bike what ever it might be. I will pass on the US Janice bike, it basically looks like such an antiquated bike for today. Not my cup of tea.
Another couple of reasons why classic motorcycles may , generally, across the board, stay low is because there may be a glut of bikes, and a dearth of customers. That could be attributed to the JabDemic. Gary from Melbourne Aus..
Retired expat living im Thailand. Happily never cold here. Roads great, little traffic. Have a RE Continental GT and a 2004 Honda CB 400. Both great bikes.
I daily an 03 Ducati Monster 620. Is that considered a modern classic? No rider aids, I got it with 22,700 miles and now has a few hundred miles over 30k. Tbh, it’s been running even better since it’s hit the 30k mark. I also have a 2012 HD Seventy Two so I guess that covers the classic bike 😂 I love both bikes so much but I’m thinking about that RE 452 or the triumph scrambler 400 x for commuting and hitting some BDRs. I’m 31 years old but I’m starting to feel like less is more for me, I just enjoy riding but I want to do it affordably on something with modern features and classic looks.
My greatest memories are all around the trips and journeys made on the various motorbikes I’ve owned over the last 50yrs. (Don’t tell the wife & kids lol 😆) The two classic BMWs I now own (a 1983 R100RS & a 1990 K1) will stay with me for the rest of my days and then my son or grandson will hopefully keep them going. As others have said it’s the experiences that count not about what money you could make. Buy what you want to ride and can afford and enjoy riding 😊
About twenty years ago I went to Walthamstow. Coming off the North Circular Road at the Walthamstow junction the first thing that I encountered was Walthamstow Greyhound Stadium. Next door to it was a Harley-Davidson dealer and despite being at work I couldn't help but pop in to have a look around. Going in through the front entrance, there was a line of brand new Harleys and, as I recall, smack dab in the middle of them was a Springer. As a kid who grew up reading American chopper magazines such as _Easyriders_ in the early Seventies, I have always loved Springers (a feature of 1930s Harleys) so I really wanted that bike as soon as I saw it. The only problem was the price, £16,000 or thereabouts. At the time my yearly wage was less than that and my mortgage swallowed up more than half of it, so it was definitely out of the question but I have never stopped desiring it. That Harley dealership closed down a few years later and the dog track not long after that (it was redeveloped as a housing estate maintaining the facade which is considered a historical landmark) so London was back to Fred Warr in Chelsea as the one and only after a brief period of having two. Now that I'm retired and interested in buying a motorbike, it's not out of the question that I could make that long held ambition a reality.
As a rider for 54 years and over 70 years old I would loved to have purchased a vintage 1970s two stroke or Honda/Kawasaki 4 cylinder 4 stroke but for two point 5 reasons. Pricing of excellent bikes from the 1970s go for $12000 to $30,000 which new bike territory. The 2nd reason is maintenance required and parts unavailability unless you like crawling around routinely fixing something that mysteriously broke just sitting in the garage or looking for unattainable and outrageously priced parts. I guess the point five is finding someone who is willing to fix problems when your aging knees and back won't allow you to get down and up in under 15 minutes. Myself I went with a Thruxton R, Kawasaki Z900RS SE, and Royal Enfield Classic Chrome 500 to get the styling I love with the reliability that allows me only to do oil changes and adjusting the chain.
Freddie. Just today agreed to buy the HD springer you highlighted. I’ve been searching for a while and yes this one’s a beauty. Regardless of its reported ride qualities it’s ‘just art’. Arranging delivery as I type👍👍. There are a few around but mostly you’ll see them up for sale in Holland and Belgium for some reason?
Nostalgia has value. So I think there will always be classics for each generation. I look back at my early riding days on YZF750’s, ZX7r’s, Blades with very fond memories But I also have a soft spot for 70’s classics. While I think prices peak for vehicles that are around 35/40 years old (as the nostalgia buyer usually seeks a connection with their glory days and is willing to part with a decent sum to capture that) Often we now see bikes ages in the 50/60’s dropping in value as the older buyer looks to part company, and sadly that era has less riders each year so the appeal lessens. For me riding and owning a bike is about the feel it gives me, and enjoying a bike from a period in my life when I was single and invincible will always hold a strong value.
The value of anything is based on how many want it vs how many exist. Trying to guess what people will want years from now is a losing venture. We cant know what will be lusted after in the future. But what we can do is see how many exist. Ironically, many things that hold high value today, do so because no one wanted them back then. The crap dealers couldn't even give away, few survive. So years later, supply is so low, only a few people wanting one makes it very valuable. For example, Dodge built very few if the big wing cars of the 1970s. Even then, the dealers had a really hard time selling them. A large percentage had the wing an nose removed at the dealer. Of the ones that did sell, a lot got crashed. So now very few exist. Making a car I could afford in high school, now be worth more than my house today. Rarity is the key, not haw well it was thought of originally.
Hi Freddie! I've been compulsively watching your back catalogue of videos for the last week and I'm loving your content. Nice laid back listen when driving to work each morning. Anyway, I completely agree about the benefits of modern classic bikes, I've owned bikes with carbs and FI and had mixed experiences with both. My 2001 Yamaha Fazer 600 has done 80,000 miles since I bought it (first big bike back in ~2012; total mileage 90k) and the only issues I've had have been the fork seals going and carb inlet rubbers. The least reliable bike I've owned was my 2000 VFR800, which broke down for fun both in the UK and abroad. Gorgeous bike to own and ride, but after the second breakdown in Switzerland, I had to let her go. Since then, I've had a 2015 Speed Triple, 2015 Tiger 800 and currently 2017 Explorer 1200 and 2003 Daytona 600. So far I've done around 70,000 on my Triumph bikes collectively and never had a single breakdown or issue (apart from a faulty Datatool alarm which was later a recall issue). I'm just looking at buying a RE Himalayan used for exploring some byways. After all, the ideal number of bikes is n+2. I also like the idea of a bike with a smaller engine. I picked up my Daytona 600 (in the fastest colour of yellow) a few months back to get a more revvy experience (the Fazer is currently awaiting repair and in pieces after the aforementioned fork seals/inlet rubbers). I love the feeling of riding at high revs compared to the Explorer which is almost too much in terms of power, not intimidating, but almost too easy since you never have to work the engine. Anyway, I've gone on for too long already. Keep the content coming and I look forward to your next episode! Wish I'd kept up with making videos haha
Also, that constant puddle of water at the bottom of most manual petcock tanks is the reason they rust through at the bottom, usually along a seam. Another reason to suck that stuff out continuously and not let it sit.
I owned a SWM 650 Superdual - they don’t make it anymore as off 2020 as didn’t meet emissions EU ( but the engine is in the AJP PR7 and the British CCM 600 spitfire . This American retro bike with the Australian suspension IKON , great 👍 product ( it is made in my Town Albury Australia 🇦🇺, I know the owner Geoff nice bloke I have used their suspension a few times on different bikes , including my Triumph 955i Tiger Ducati Scrambler 800 and others .
The 70’s and 80’s motorcycles seem to be rising, especially the 80’s 2 strokes ie rg500. The two strokes seem to hold the most nostalgia which in turn leads to higher buying prices. The next rise may be the 90’s ie (as said) the Fireblade etc, or maybe even the ZZR1100 🤞🏻
I think it’s going to be better for old 2 strokes.The power delivery and noise is exciting and addictive compared to your average 4 stroke. For example Yamaha RD400s are between 4 & 10k. Whereas the Honda CB400 twin ,which actually ended up faster & beat the RD in production racing ,is worth 4k at most. + they make virtually no 2 strokes these days so will have a certain novelty value. I think the prices will drop eventually,but even bikes from the 40s & 50s are worth thousands,although the guys who rode them back in the day probably aren’t riding these days.
In addition to furniture, there is some decent looking acoustic panels out there that might be helpful making the place more free of reverb - without looking awful.
my first bike was the Yama RD350, the "pocket rocket". next was a 900 Kawasaki, a land cruise missile. I loved and survived those bikes. I like the new KZ900, but don't crave it. down-sized bikes I can flick & lean are my taste. So many to choose from. 😊
there is a couple of companies doing very similar in the UK, Wardill in Wales, Henry Cole has a company, Gladstone motorcycles that builds bikes using old Triumph engines and another who I can't remember the name of that uses Royal Enfield 500 engines and bespoke everything else and also many custom builders would build a bike as someone wants it if commissioned to do so
Hi, if you are thinking about a good all-rounder to replace the Bonnie I can recommend the Yamaha tracer 700 . Great, do it all bike and under raited . Low mileage 2016 - 2018 , between 5 & 6 k bargin.
The past few years I've been trying to figure the classic bike market out and which bikes to invest my money into and I've had the same thoughts as yourself Freddie ... i.e surely it's a sure fire bet to invest in something that's an era defining icon. Five or so years ago I bought the first year Africa Twin, a 1988 650cc model ... a proper Dakar rally icon with heaps of racing history and with the fairly recent boom in adventure bikes you would think it would go up and up in value but no, if anything it's worth less now than it did 5 years ago whilst some run of the mill, pretty bland bikes have risen exponentially. I've stopped trying to make sense of it to be honest it's anyone's guess.
@@tuesdayatdobbs I know. Something I've always found interesting would be Honda's RC30, I've seen one go for £75k, it's a proper collector machine, rightly so ... But Hondas run of the mill VFR750, which is pretty much the same bike just toned down and made for the everyday road riding, you can buy for next to nothing .. £1500 maybe for one is decent condition and reasonable miles on the clock. It's nearly the same bike! Madness.
As vehicle technology progresses the connection between man and machine diminishes. This is one reason a lot of generally older people are so anti EV. They miss the 'feel' a mechanical engine give, NVH which reminds them of their youth etc. Vehicles or at least cars trucks etc are moving towards being pure consumer durables. Highly efficient devices focusing on the technology rather than actual transportation 'experience'. When self drive becomes the norm that connection is pretty much entirely gone Where motorcycles fit in in the next decade or so remains to be seen.
"Classic Status" doesn't translate to increased VALUE! Anyone who has read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" will testify to that! Values of 1950's-1980's bikes has more to do with USABILITY! They invariably had bench seats and were easy to maintain and run! UTILITY trumps fashion and style when looking for a "classic bike"! Look at the popularity of the RE Interceptor for a PERFECT example!
Whilst the title may be scary, i think just from hearing everyones stories, its safe to say that the market will balance itself out. There are times where some motorcycles are in the limelight, then times where they aren’t. In five years, the trends could change and suddenly classics are highly desirable. Observationally id say classics are in a good spot considering the last 20 years of mainly sports bike dominance. So in essence, I wouldn’t stress :) Sports bikes are a bit over saturated at the moment, which has caused a slightly higher demand for more adventure bikes. Perhaps with a lot of brands producing Scrambler style bikes in recent years, theres a new market for classic style bikes. People desiring modern electronics but gorgeous styling, which isnt too far away from a stripped back, simplistic, and classic bike (with modern safety features).
Modern retros probably dont help the classic market as you can get a bike that looks identical to the ones you lusted after in the 70's and 80's with arguably better reliability and the benefits of up to date electronics and rider aids. The car market however doesnt replicate classic designs with their new models due to modern day safety legislations and therefore classics such as the RS Ford Escort Cosworth can demand a premium.
Freddie, et al, do you know, has the gearbox/gear selector problem ever been sorted out on the bonneville models either by the replacement of the gear sellector or in recent years of manufacture [if so then when] in such a way that the issue won't reoccure?
Future classics based on bikes from 80's 90's which were popular bor listed after by younger riders at the time. I was 16 in the early 80's and eventually passed my test when I was 17 on a Kawasaki KH100. I don't see that as a future classic although it was a good looking and capable little bike. The bigger bike which was popular among older riders which I always liked was the Honda 250 Superfreak, not a particularly fast bike but very solid and relatively good looking, as a ex-rider in my 50's if I could get a 250 Superdream I would, just to scratch the itch if wanting to ride one as a young rider. The other hot 250 was the YamahaRD250LC, I had a Yamaha RD125LC which was a great bike but then sold it to get a car so never progressed beyond that 125 until I lived to Australia in 2010 and have had a couple of Royal Enfield bikes over here. So how about the Honda 250 Superdream as a future classic?
Should I keep my K100 which was new when I got it in 1984? Nobody wants to buy them unless to make a ‘street racer’ and not as a perfect standard bike from the factory.
Roverchap makes a great point, the prices of classic bikes are fuelled by middle aged men trying to relive their youth and not many youngsters ride bikes any more. So on that basis, the stone cold future classics are the PCX125 or NMAX or a Lexmoto. Get in now before they're all in the canal or crushed under a bus.
I wanted to ask you do you ever use passing blinker since in EU blinking far lights means you let someone pass and also I wanted to ask you does the new BMW GS being 30k makes sense, but now I just feel bad because of your Boneville disaster after seeing latest video on main channel. This sucks man, I feel you so much. It's just a piece of metal but still, for us, motorguys, it's a lot to take. And pay.
Value will drop like a brick mate I’m into scooters lambretta Vespa ,bought & sold for about £80-120 when I was a kid .can’t get a bare frame now without engine for less than £700 bucks,in ten years time they be worthless again ,I’m selling up pretty soon .
Hi Freddie I know you've done a review of the Honda super cub but recently I've just bought the Suzuki burgman Street ex125 I wonder what your thoughts are on that my friend
Well Pete was absolutely right Nostradamus right. 25 year olds aren’t interested in motorcycles. I have 20 bikes in my they are all immediately a lot of 70s 80s a few 2000s there even a DYNA. I have 3 daughters and none of the partners have ever even asked to look at them no one is interested in classic bike apart from my generation. Because they didn’t have dirtbike take girls out on bikes so they don’t get how hard we worked and sacrificed other things to buy bikes Classic bike market is dying like there owners and the government are helping it along with bad fuel high insurance premiums and a million cameras and 20 mph hour limits and I own a GPZ and a fireblade because they are iconic to me and likeminded friends to me they are art. Not investments. I have a lot of bikes that are investments and I think it’s time they where sold now. Cheers Freddie your learning.
Janus. They have their likers, and they have their haters. The likers love the look and get what the bike is all about easy to ride, easy to keep and very easy on the eye with classic (if you are into board racers) lines. The haters only focus on one thing ... The engine. It is made by Shinery in China and is the same motor used by Mash and many other Euro rebranders. These haters are the same haters that we have ... drag the bikes down and have never swung a leg over one or ever seen one in the flesh. TBH, stand a Zontes next to a Triumph or a BMW, and I defy you to damn the bike on build quality or equipment. The Mash 650 Scrambler is an animal if appropriately ridden, and the Zontes ZT380 is head and shoulders above the BMW offering. As for future classics, there are none from the 80s or 90s as they are all from the same mould, and none really stand out, except for one manufacturer - the Ducati. Any of them except the disaster that shall be nameless, and I think you know the one (DS1000.)
You only need to look at the antique / collectable car market to see that the older motorcycles will always retain their value as collectors items. You never see a 1930's or 1950's car depreciate even though that generation has passed away. Same with motorcycles, older bikes will always be desired. A 1990's car has no collector's value and your 1990's Fireblade will also not achieve collector's status. There are too few people that are even middle interested in owning one, whereas almost everyone is interested in a classic 1970's anything on two wheels. The classic upright seating position is another factor vs the cramped tucked in sport bike position in deciding if there will be a market for it with the older generations.
There's something wrong with the colours on my display. It's definitely not showing Daniel's Janus in lime green - more a pale blue. Lovely bikes, though.
My prediction is motorcyclists are a dying breed by age or at lease shrinking rapidly by generations. There will be an oversupply of bikes, the inability of keeping them running. There will be many gathering dust. I think electric is doomed but perhaps likes of small 125cc maybe everyone’s necessity. Many European cities are banning motorcycles. Fell like living in looney times. I am 64 and bulk of riders ageing. When they give up, no succession of riders or buyers. Look how many US imports there are for sale of classic bikes. There are no road repairs a deliberate ploy I believe because there will be fewer road users enforceable. Can get paranoid and catastrophic but I think it’s all very real
It seems getting your license these days is a major faff. When I was younger, you did your CBT and then I think you could ride a 125 when you were 17, then I did a 5 day course and I could ride any bike I wanted at 17. Good times.
I’m 22 and i ride a classic 350 :) Sadly though, there are very few people I know who ride. Those who are my age, ride sports-bikes and aren’t the most verse in terms of outdoor expedition. So sadly I would have to agree with the perspectives of everyone here.
You don't invest in motorcycles for money, only for experiences.
Exactly, buy the bike you like and enjoy it. A bike as an investment is not only a huge gamble it's also a poor ownership experience, you won't want to get it wet or dirty, and how would you feel if/when you drop it. Sometimes you might get lucky come resale time, most often you won't but you'll have had a great time.
I bought an old bike that looked lovely in the pics. When it turned up it wasn’t quite the spanking machine. Spent way more than I should have, but enjoyed doing it. Will I get my money back? Nope 😊
I agree l have never bought a motorbike as an investment. However, one l bought, a Vincent Rapide, did greatly increase in value over the years l owned it.
Good philosophy
In the same vein - my first foray back to bikes after 30 years was an eye opener. I bought a 1985 GPZ900R. Fantastic fun until things started going wrong - forks, headers, brake lines etc. It became a money pit. Next bike was a K1200S - what a pleasure. It didn't turn heads as much as the Kwacker but was such a joy to ride.@@jasonk7072
The building you keep them in is the best investment.
looking back at age 70 it's not the money I might of made that I think of; it's the lifetime of adventure and experiences. Bikes are for riding. I didn't buy my Suzuki GT 750's to make money. I have investments for that. The bolt of lightening that hit the ground next to me in a sudden dump of hail at Bryce Canyon on my 75 GT is something I will never forget.
Dear Freddie, thanks so much for your entertaining efforts discussing motorcycles. I am 74 now, my first bike being a 49cc puch, sold by sears as the Allstate compact, I bought used in 1963 with money I earned from my paper route. It was the beginning of a lifelong relationship with motorcycles. I’ve never had a “stable” of bikes, I’ve gone years at times without one, but I’m still enjoying riding. I’ve had several Hondas over the years, a Yamaha xs1100 that required a firm grip on the bars, as it was quicker than anything I had ridden before! After I sold the Goldwing for $2000 more than I paid for it, I bought my first BMW, a K1200LT. What a surprise, a huge heavy tourer, loaded with tech, and rode like a sport bike..loved it, but alas my wife quit riding with me, and the bike ended up sitting in the garage longer than it should, so I sold it, thinking that my riding days were over..I retired at 73, and immediately boredom set in. While perusing marketplace, I came across a ‘79 Honda XL250s, for $125..the accompanying photos showed the bike still had all its bits, and a title, and it was close by…boredom solved! I sent many glorious hours in the garage cleaning and fixing it up, and when finished, I had a total of about $500 in it…sold it for $1500 right away. I then spotted a 2003 BMW F650cs running, not wrecked just listed on marketplace, for $1000, I don’t think I had seen any BMW that could be ridden home for a grand! My thought was to bring it home, clean it up, and make a tidy profit…my problem now is that I can’t get off of it, it is an oddity for BMW, weird styling, only made for 4 years, but it has this bucket cargo space on the “tank” (fuel is actually under the seat) that is perfect for throwing groceries, a 12 pack of Corona bottles, takeout, whatever, in it, and I just love riding it, has fuel injection, ABS brakes, heated grips..I’m stuck..actually had it listed for sale, and deleted the posting..
Freddie…I don’t know what to do about this affliction!!
Join a twelve step program, old bikes anon, and when you feel like buying another, call your sponsor.
He’ll bring a trailer!
Freddie, on the subject of classic bike prices and future investment, in general the people with the most disposable income tend to be in their 40's, 50's and 60's, hence the bikes and cars which have higher prices are the ones that these people remember from their youth. Back in the 80's and 90's the value of 1930's cars rocketed, but the value of these cars has changed little in the last 15 years, and often in a downward trajectory. There will always be exceptions to this rule such as rare Ferrari's or Ducati's etc, but for a bog standard mass production car or motorcycle this trend tends to hold true. The value of early 2000's rare bikes such as Ducati 916 - 998's or Honda VTR1000 SP1 etc are increasing fast, but the price of 1930's - 1950's are not changing much at all.
I still have my 1979 Suzuki GS750, I bought in 1984, wrote off in 1986, rebuilt in 1987, modified and tuned through the 80's and 90's and put back on the road this year after a full restoration.
In the last 39 years its been my commuting bike in all weathers including snow, weekend sports bike, touring bike, albatross around my neck, money pit, and now its my show bike I only ride when the weather is just perfect.
I think you may be right Freddie. The bottom could very well drop out of the classic pricing when the generation that remembers them is gone. There may be a cyclical thing here. I know when I bought my 1977 BMW R100/7 it was my dream bike from the year that I started riding but could never afford one. When my kids were grown and I had disposable cash I went on the search for one. Not sure if the current generation will have that kind of nostalgic connection to current machines but if they do it will only last while they are still alive. I will pass the R100 on to my son and he will appreciate it but only because he remembers helping me search for and restore the bike. Not because it was a bike of his time.
Freddy, I love the irony of you saying you didn’t want camo waterproofs as you wanted something more stealth 😂
I buy what makes me happy and used. I have never bought a new bike. I always let someone else take the hit on depreciation. It's pretty easy to find a 2 year old bike with 2k miles on it with a good discount.
Apologies in advance, the Bart Simpson inside my head won't leave me alone . . . somewhere in a bar in Springfield "Is there Mr Janus here .. A Hugh Janus ?" .. there I said it . . annnnnnd relaxxxxx. Love the channel.
It's nice when you you have finished your dinner done all the chores and you can sit down and relax and enjoy an episode of Tuesday at Dobbs. Thanks freddie!
All of my vintage British motorcycles that I bought for $500 each I can sell for 7X whatI paid for them. I bought them because I liked them.
FortNine did a brilliant video recently on the "Gore-Tex" history, well worth watching, as with all their video's it was well researched.
I've never thought I'd earn money on a bike ,I just ride them ,what's killed it off is the test .
What a fantastic idea is MotoRelief - to do this for Vets and First Responders etc is wonderful. I was never fortunate (???) enough to be posted overseas to a Combat Zone but now battling cancer, can fully appreciate how valuable riding in similar company can be to your physical and mental well-being. Caring for all of our returning Vets SHOULD be a priority for ALL of our Western Governments - sadly, it’s individuals setting up programs like this that bear the brunt. God Bless them. Really enjoying TaD’s. Thanks 😁👍🇦🇺
The Janus caught my attentio recently and i am Fascinated by its 1920's design especially that fuel tank and handle bar, hope RE can make a similar model
Freddie. Here’s a thought about carbs and EFuels that you might like to share.
Today while riding my Aprilia Pegaso Cube ( 650 single twin carbs) to keep the E10 fuel from sitting too long, I had an epiphany. If you have any carb bikes with manual petcock with a reserve position, listen carefully. One of the problems with Ethanol-degraded (can’t call it enhanced) fuel is that over time, the alcohol settles out of the fuel and collects at the bottom of the container it is in, because it’s more dense than petrol. Carbs have float bowls which are a sort of container, but there is a dip tube that goes right to the bottom of the bowl so any alcohol that gathers there will be sucked up and eliminated, if the engine is run periodically. But the fuel tank is different (but not really, read on), if used as per the owner’s manual and common practice. I.e. turn the petcock to the “on” position for normal fuel levels then switch the petcock to the reserve position in any or all of the following situations occur: engine stumbles and refuses to run, fuel gauge read low, fuel warning light comes on. All that depends on your bike and how it is equipped. This means that, except for when a rider draws the tank down to almost empty, every bike with a reserve-enabled petcock, is riding around with an ever growing puddle of alcohol or water (explained later) or water-infused alcohol, at the bottom of their tanks. Because they rarely switch to reserve for more than is necessary to get to the next petrol station. The only time the fuel/alcohol/water at the bottom is drawn down is when the petcock is switched to reserve AND the bike is run like that until empty or almost empty. But who wants to risk running out? So here’s my solution: run in the reserve position, ALL THE TIME. It’s important to know when you’re going to run out, and that depends on the bike. My Pegaso has a low fuel warning light so when that comes on I know I still have at least 5L because that’s the reserve and the light comes on several miles before the engine starts to splutter. This way you are ALWAYS drawing down the fuel at the bottom of the tank. This means that no liquids that are lighter than petrol can gather there for any longer than the time the bike sits between rides. Even if one runs expensive E5 fuel ( some have no alcohol) or alcohol free petrol, water can still gather at the bottom of the tank. How? Condensation. When the moisture in the air in your tank above the fuel, cools down ( think, during a cold night) it condenses on the insides of the tank. Once that condensation is thick enough it coalesces into droplets that run down the tank and into the petrol. Once there, it sinks to the bottom. Repeat this cycle many times and a considerable amount of water can collect. And filling the tank regularly isn’t the solution either because any moisture on the tank walls before filling, will simply be washed into the fresh petrol and gather at the bottom. Operators of light aircraft are very familiar with this concept. The rule is fill your tanks after every flight (to eliminate air/moisture from above the fuel. And draw of enough fuel from the bottom of EVERY tank before each flight, until you can see the water/fuel separation line in the special, clear beaker that every light aircraft carries. The tanks are specially equipped with draw off point for this purpose. Once you are sure all the alcohol is in the beaker and not the tank, you can proceed with the rest of the pre flight checks. Running one’s bike on reserve, all the time is the road going equivalent of this aviation procedure. Their procedure eliminates the water before the engine starts because the last thing a pilot needs is a stumbling engine in take off. We bikers cannot duplicate this total elimination practice without modifying our fuel systems, which isn’t easy, believe me, I’ve looked into it.
If something is less dense than petrol won’t it float in petrol.
Thanks for that. I thought I had proof read my entry well, but apparently not well enough. I have corrected the error. Water is MORE dense than petrol and that’s why it sinks to the bottom.
@@jimwyer4257 thought it must be just an over site for someone that thinks like you do which is a good way of thinking ie: point one think about things, point 2 nothing else matters.
Carbureted bikes run fine on E10. That's all I have near me.
I think the 80's and 90's sports bikes will start to gain in value in the next couple decades, but you're not going to retire by scooping up a bunch of them and waiting to sell. There's a reason why a Vincent Black Shadow or a Brough Superior is so frickin' expensive... there weren't that many of them made. (And they're a quality machine.) With the mass production of modern bikes, you won't have the scarcity big money factor when it comes to 80's and 90's motorcycles. I've never been a sports bike guy, but some of the 80's sports bikes have started to become interesting to me. (Bikes like the mid 80's Honda Interceptors.)
Once again Freddie a very interesting post, I am in my 60's and the 80's Japanese bikes are my favourites, when my generation have gone so will the love of these 80's bikes. the next generation will love the 90's bikes and so on....
Hi Simon .My keeper is a Royal Enfield 500cc wiat for it Diesel . Shes a 1963 fully restored . I love to ride the bike and certanly turns heads . She sounds line a tractor but with a lrge fly wheel its so smooth. 150 MPG would carry 4 people with out any drop in performance . Please give it a mention . Buily for the Indain army and retored i n New Delhi . Totaly rebuilt and stunning . 👍👍👍👍
When I think of the value of anything, I’m reminded of the line in Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the lost Ark, when Indie’s nemesis says, “Take this worthless pocket watch, $10 from a vendor on the streets, I bury it in the sand and 1000 years from now it’s priceless.” And thus rarity typically equals value.
I have been wondering why I like these up loads of yours "not a last comment" And the penny has just droped it is like when I was 16 years old in a shed with my mates cold damp but a few beers and sadly smoking ourselves to death BUT JUST TALKING BIKES NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS !!!!!!!!!! How cool is that ?????????????
I have a Suzuki Goose 350 limited edition, it is a great little bike but do not seem to be many left in the uk. There is an FB page, but no action on that page for several years.
Every garage I took mine to, it becamse a bit of a talking point! Hope your Goose is still going strong, excellent bikes and very rare these days :)
I buy a motorcycle to have fun be it touring - track riding- adventure riding whatever I have never bought a motorcycle for resale value also Freddie what gives a motorcycle soul/character as I don’t believe a motorcycle has these things 😊
A problem with the 90's sports bikes is that the young people who rode them when they were 25 are now 55. I'm 66 and I rode Kawasaki triples when I was young. But even though I love those bikes they're too rowdy for me now and today I ride a new Moto Guzzi V7 Special and a 1977 BMW R75/7, two bikes I wouldn't have considered in 1974 but are perfectly suited for me now. I considered ordering a Janus Halcyon but I couldn't come to grips with the 1970's Honda engine in the 1920's chassis.
Great to see Janus making it to your channel, Freddie! I have an ADV bike and this would bring some balance to my garage. Always enjoy your (and Monica's) content!
I’m glad you like my 1998 heritage springer Freddie. They really are appreciating classics. I got almost 60k on the clock now, so mine probably isn’t appreciating in value as well as others. But I’ll keep it till I’m gone and pass it down to the next generation. If you find one for sale, get one made in 2000. That’s when they went to fuel injection. Mine has a carb. That I’ve never touched, works perfectly.
congratulations on bike of the week!
Also wanted to say I agree with your perspective on the Japanese Sports-bikes. Nice to see that you listed some sports-bikes that you like, often people just spout that they dont like them flat out. Personally im not a fan of them, but still like to try and see how someone else may like them :)
In 1985 I wanted a Norton commando 750 so I bought an RD500lc. In 1986 I wanted a Vincent black shadow so I bought a GSXR750j.
In 1988 I still wanted a black shadow so I bought a Harley 883.
In 1995 I still wanted a Vincent so I got a Dyna low rider.
I now have a '99 Harley FXDL and although it's not a Vincent it's the right bike for me.
Happy days from sunny Devon.
Bought a 1995 Guzzi California in 2008 with under 25,000 km on the clock for £2800. Sold it in 2022 with over 75,000 km on the clock for £2700. Beautiful, great bike. Could probably have held out for more going by prices on auto trader/ eBay at the time. Definitely an all time classic. IMO.
Morning 😎👍 some good points on future classics made. I’m knocking on 40’s door and the bikes I was raised around in the 80’s and 90’s are not holding the interest that the 60’s and 70’s bikes did. I like that as “ I being poor have only my dreams” and have 6 bikes with the youngest being a 1998 GSXF600 (which I paid £1 for in px with a 125) . I’ve never paid more than £1000 for a bike and I enjoy them all, even the maintenance (less and less garages wanted to deal with them, except the older spanner monkeys who are a dying/retiring breed 😢)
I’m a 4th gen rider and thinking about it my mother, father, grandfather and great grandfather would all avoid the sporty lean forward riding positions with complaints of wrist, shoulder and back discomfort. Now I’m getting a bit longer in the tooth I find the GSXF600 and ZX6R riding positions a tad more uncomfortable now compared to the ZL600 and EN500 crusier-ish styled bikes that I can cover all day riding with only stopping for: fuel, food, coffee and a smoke on multiple day explorations and adventures around the U.K. not so much the prior 2 maybe 2hrs and then stop for the usual PLUS pain meds 🤦♂️🤷♂️😂🤣
We where mad for sports bikes in the 90’s and early 00’s but possibly that’s why the modern retros are still performing strong now 🤔 our body’s are just not… as youthful as our brains are 🤷♂️🤣.
Hi Freddie I’m thoroughly enjoying watching Tuesday at Dobbs keep up the great work just got home from work dinner on my lap and another quality watch from you both regards ian
When my Vauxhall Viva HB was stolen in 1981, whilst I was in the process of moving stuff from my girlfriend’s flat to my house (we were moving in together), the thieves stole my Rhodesian issue combat jacket (leaving me with just my shirt and trousers which no longer fit me).
After the car was recovered near a housing estate, I experienced the 1980s version of PTSD: meaning I staked out the local pubs in the hope of catching someone wearing my jacket.
Then SIS hatched the plan to boost Thatcher’s popularity by withdrawing from negotiations with Argentina over the Falklands/Malvinas, thus giving the junta the impression that the UK government didn’t care about the islands.
And so PTSD was invented to explain why lads get upset after bayoneting conscripts in rainswept dugouts, after yomping overt the mountains and drinking peat water, due to the pesky Argies sank the ship with all the choppers.
Modern PTSD is more about killing women and children in countries illegally invaded on behalf of the psychopathic elites and the powers that shouldn’t.
Peace
Chinese engine. That's the heart of a motorcycle. I've still got to be convinced of Chinese longevity judging by our household products.
Big old YUP!
Point of order: the forks on the Janus are leading link, but not Earles type. The distinguishing feature of Earles forks is that the pivot is behind the wheel. Anyway, regarding retro bikes, are you aware of the Kawasaki Drifter of 20-odd years ago? I had one for about 5 years back then, and it was brilliant. When rapidly-advancing decrepitude forces me to give up my GL1500, I may seek out another, if I can find one that hasn't been dressed up as a fake Indian tribute act.
Only a few bikes are investment bikes and most are never ridden. It’s like watches, a few models can be classed as investment and kept in a safe.
Don’t look at bikes as money investment but as pleasure investment, riding or restoring.
I have mobility issues and have two Zx7r that I can’t sit on but I am enjoying refreshing one and the other making into a stripped race bike.
I might have to adapt them for me to ride.
Why 1999/2002 bike? Because they are fun, easy to work on, look superior to modern day bikes
In the mean time I will enjoy my DRZ400sm 😂
Another great episode - thanks for featuring my email and the legendary Goose!
Thanks for sharing it, Tom! The name is ridiculous, but I strangely ended up loving the Goose the more I read about it!
@@tuesdayatdobbs When it was stolen I was heartbroken...but I actually found it a few days later as I was riding on a bus. I looked out of the window and saw it propped up down a side street not a few miles from home. Got off at the next stop and went to retrieve it, but it had been absolutley destroyed by the theives - ignition ripped out, fuel cap broken off, indicators and body panels missing. I recovered it with the help of a friend's van, but it wasn't salvageable by me so I sold the remains to a collector who vowed to restore it. Somewhere, my Goose lives on, so there's happy ending!
I am 84 and still riding all year round .
I have owned dozens of bikes but now ride a 90s Honda Rebel 250 . It not fast but who needs thst these days with all the restrictions . Its comfortable , economicsl , easy to maintain and utterly reliable . I think people are sick of all the useless tech on moderm bikes . I think smaller bikes have a good chance of becoming rideable classics it's not about making money it's about having fun .
*They're not sick of the tech. They just don't really use it.* But in their minds for the price the bike should have "extras." A word that describes things we don't really need.
@@hulkhatepunybanner Ha ha yes , very true .
Weather: I live in Sweden and it's no longer really possible to ride, Some people ride through the winter here, but thats's very rare as our temps drop well below -10 deg C.
I found the topic on modern classic sports bikes, very interesting. The comments on them, not being a good, future investment surprised me. It makes sense I do have a soft spot for those early 90s Japanese sports bikes. Especially the 93 Fireblade. They may not become as popular as the bikes of the 70s and 80s but i still think they will go up in value for awhile yet.. ?
I can’t add to the discussion re classic Japanese bikes as this isn’t something I am interested in, but on the other hand Italian bikes and especially Ducatis, and some specific models are a sure bet re investment values increasing. My brother in law late last year sold his mid ‘70s 750 Super Sport for around $100k. He bought the bike some 7-8 years ago and paid around $45K for it. Basically, given auction results pretty much any bevel Ducati from the 1970s is a sure bet investment, if you can get one for a good price.
Similarly, the Sport Classic 1000, the 848 and 916 series bikes also are an excellent investment, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing happens for the Panigale range of bikes. So my basic point is, it’s not all doom and gloom but choose wisely. In the meantime enjoy your bike what ever it might be.
I will pass on the US Janice bike, it basically looks like such an antiquated bike for today. Not my cup of tea.
Another couple of reasons why classic motorcycles may , generally, across the board, stay low is because there may be a glut of bikes, and a dearth of customers. That could be attributed to the JabDemic. Gary from Melbourne Aus..
Retired expat living im Thailand.
Happily never cold here. Roads great, little traffic.
Have a RE Continental GT and a 2004 Honda CB 400. Both great bikes.
I daily an 03 Ducati Monster 620. Is that considered a modern classic? No rider aids, I got it with 22,700 miles and now has a few hundred miles over 30k. Tbh, it’s been running even better since it’s hit the 30k mark. I also have a 2012 HD Seventy Two so I guess that covers the classic bike 😂 I love both bikes so much but I’m thinking about that RE 452 or the triumph scrambler 400 x for commuting and hitting some BDRs. I’m 31 years old but I’m starting to feel like less is more for me, I just enjoy riding but I want to do it affordably on something with modern features and classic looks.
Love the radio style show. Reminds me of late night drives and random radio stations reading out listener correspondence
My greatest memories are all around the trips and journeys made on the various motorbikes I’ve owned over the last 50yrs. (Don’t tell the wife & kids lol 😆) The two classic BMWs I now own (a 1983 R100RS & a 1990 K1) will stay with me for the rest of my days and then my son or grandson will hopefully keep them going. As others have said it’s the experiences that count not about what money you could make. Buy what you want to ride and can afford and enjoy riding 😊
it`s not about whats my bike going to be worth in the future it`s about having fun now , this is not a drill !
About twenty years ago I went to Walthamstow. Coming off the North Circular Road at the Walthamstow junction the first thing that I encountered was Walthamstow Greyhound Stadium. Next door to it was a Harley-Davidson dealer and despite being at work I couldn't help but pop in to have a look around. Going in through the front entrance, there was a line of brand new Harleys and, as I recall, smack dab in the middle of them was a Springer.
As a kid who grew up reading American chopper magazines such as _Easyriders_ in the early Seventies, I have always loved Springers (a feature of 1930s Harleys) so I really wanted that bike as soon as I saw it. The only problem was the price, £16,000 or thereabouts. At the time my yearly wage was less than that and my mortgage swallowed up more than half of it, so it was definitely out of the question but I have never stopped desiring it.
That Harley dealership closed down a few years later and the dog track not long after that (it was redeveloped as a housing estate maintaining the facade which is considered a historical landmark) so London was back to Fred Warr in Chelsea as the one and only after a brief period of having two. Now that I'm retired and interested in buying a motorbike, it's not out of the question that I could make that long held ambition a reality.
Trouble with the Janus is that it isn’t Road legal in the U.K. and it’s very expensive.
You are correct, but handbuilt bikes with parts made locally, in small numbers, will be expensive, Are Nortons cheap????
That’s definitely the biggest plus about them.
@@jrnmller1551 no Nortons are not cheap and their very average, they don’t justify their price in either build quality or components imo.
Hipster transport
Coffee shop to bakery
As a rider for 54 years and over 70 years old I would loved to have purchased a vintage 1970s two stroke or Honda/Kawasaki 4 cylinder 4 stroke but for two point 5 reasons. Pricing of excellent bikes from the 1970s go for $12000 to $30,000 which new bike territory. The 2nd reason is maintenance required and parts unavailability unless you like crawling around routinely fixing something that mysteriously broke just sitting in the garage or looking for unattainable and outrageously priced parts.
I guess the point five is finding someone who is willing to fix problems when your aging knees and back won't allow you to get down and up in under 15 minutes.
Myself I went with a Thruxton R, Kawasaki Z900RS SE, and Royal Enfield Classic Chrome 500 to get the styling I love with the reliability that allows me only to do oil changes and adjusting the chain.
Lime green, or, as others may describe it: teal.
Enjoy your enthusiasm for everything FD.
🍻
The Harley Deluxe is the 57' Chevy of motorcycles. I've had mine for five years and have no intention of ever selling it, there's nothing prettier. 😍
Freddie. Just today agreed to buy the HD springer you highlighted. I’ve been searching for a while and yes this one’s a beauty. Regardless of its reported ride qualities it’s ‘just art’. Arranging delivery as I type👍👍.
There are a few around but mostly you’ll see them up for sale in Holland and Belgium for some reason?
Nostalgia has value.
So I think there will always be classics for each generation. I look back at my early riding days on YZF750’s, ZX7r’s, Blades with very fond memories
But I also have a soft spot for 70’s classics.
While I think prices peak for vehicles that are around 35/40 years old (as the nostalgia buyer usually seeks a connection with their glory days and is willing to part with a decent sum to capture that) Often we now see bikes ages in the 50/60’s dropping in value as the older buyer looks to part company, and sadly that era has less riders each year so the appeal lessens.
For me riding and owning a bike is about the feel it gives me, and enjoying a bike from a period in my life when I was single and invincible will always hold a strong value.
The value of anything is based on how many want it vs how many exist. Trying to guess what people will want years from now is a losing venture. We cant know what will be lusted after in the future. But what we can do is see how many exist. Ironically, many things that hold high value today, do so because no one wanted them back then. The crap dealers couldn't even give away, few survive. So years later, supply is so low, only a few people wanting one makes it very valuable. For example, Dodge built very few if the big wing cars of the 1970s. Even then, the dealers had a really hard time selling them. A large percentage had the wing an nose removed at the dealer. Of the ones that did sell, a lot got crashed. So now very few exist. Making a car I could afford in high school, now be worth more than my house today. Rarity is the key, not haw well it was thought of originally.
Hi Freddie! I've been compulsively watching your back catalogue of videos for the last week and I'm loving your content. Nice laid back listen when driving to work each morning. Anyway, I completely agree about the benefits of modern classic bikes, I've owned bikes with carbs and FI and had mixed experiences with both. My 2001 Yamaha Fazer 600 has done 80,000 miles since I bought it (first big bike back in ~2012; total mileage 90k) and the only issues I've had have been the fork seals going and carb inlet rubbers. The least reliable bike I've owned was my 2000 VFR800, which broke down for fun both in the UK and abroad. Gorgeous bike to own and ride, but after the second breakdown in Switzerland, I had to let her go. Since then, I've had a 2015 Speed Triple, 2015 Tiger 800 and currently 2017 Explorer 1200 and 2003 Daytona 600. So far I've done around 70,000 on my Triumph bikes collectively and never had a single breakdown or issue (apart from a faulty Datatool alarm which was later a recall issue). I'm just looking at buying a RE Himalayan used for exploring some byways. After all, the ideal number of bikes is n+2. I also like the idea of a bike with a smaller engine. I picked up my Daytona 600 (in the fastest colour of yellow) a few months back to get a more revvy experience (the Fazer is currently awaiting repair and in pieces after the aforementioned fork seals/inlet rubbers). I love the feeling of riding at high revs compared to the Explorer which is almost too much in terms of power, not intimidating, but almost too easy since you never have to work the engine. Anyway, I've gone on for too long already. Keep the content coming and I look forward to your next episode! Wish I'd kept up with making videos haha
Also, that constant puddle of water at the bottom of most manual petcock tanks is the reason they rust through at the bottom, usually along a seam. Another reason to suck that stuff out continuously and not let it sit.
I owned a SWM 650 Superdual - they don’t make it anymore as off 2020 as didn’t meet emissions EU ( but the engine is in the AJP PR7 and the British CCM 600 spitfire . This American retro bike with the Australian suspension IKON , great 👍 product ( it is made in my Town Albury Australia 🇦🇺, I know the owner Geoff nice bloke I have used their suspension a few times on different bikes , including my Triumph 955i Tiger Ducati Scrambler 800 and others .
Most of us classic bike riders are not in it for the money,done a few ,i'm a few grand out over the last few years,we do it for love.
But also interesting that the trend is still moving towards simpler/cheaper bikes
Freddie the brand you mentioned Janic uses chinesed build Honda engine. That is impirtant fact 😀
The 70’s and 80’s motorcycles seem to be rising, especially the 80’s 2 strokes ie rg500. The two strokes seem to hold the most nostalgia which in turn leads to higher buying prices. The next rise may be the 90’s ie (as said) the Fireblade etc, or maybe even the ZZR1100 🤞🏻
retired/older people wanting to ride an old litre super sport is hard to imagine.
I think it’s going to be better for old 2 strokes.The power delivery and noise is exciting and addictive compared to your average 4 stroke.
For example Yamaha RD400s are between 4 & 10k. Whereas the Honda CB400 twin ,which actually ended up faster & beat the RD in production racing ,is worth 4k at most.
+ they make virtually no 2 strokes these days so will have a certain novelty value.
I think the prices will drop eventually,but even bikes from the 40s & 50s are worth thousands,although the guys who rode them back in the day probably aren’t riding these days.
Haha you do a bike up? That I would pay to see.
I realised it was a stupid statement while I was saying it!
I’ve bought both my bikes with the intention of not loosing money - other than inevitable running costs.
In addition to furniture, there is some decent looking acoustic panels out there that might be helpful making the place more free of reverb - without looking awful.
Thanks Kimmo- I know exactly what you mean and we’re considering this👌🏻
I bought in 1976 kawasaki z900 bran new for 1250 pounds
Best looking modern retro is the Black Falcon repro of the Vincent Black Shadow.
my first bike was the Yama RD350, the "pocket rocket". next was a 900 Kawasaki, a land cruise missile. I loved and survived those bikes. I like the new KZ900, but don't crave it. down-sized bikes I can flick & lean are my taste. So many to choose from. 😊
there is a couple of companies doing very similar in the UK, Wardill in Wales, Henry Cole has a company, Gladstone motorcycles that builds bikes using old Triumph engines and another who I can't remember the name of that uses Royal Enfield 500 engines and bespoke everything else and also many custom builders would build a bike as someone wants it if commissioned to do so
Hi, if you are thinking about a good all-rounder to replace the Bonnie I can recommend the Yamaha tracer 700 .
Great, do it all bike and under raited .
Low mileage 2016 - 2018 , between 5 & 6 k bargin.
The past few years I've been trying to figure the classic bike market out and which bikes to invest my money into and I've had the same thoughts as yourself Freddie ... i.e surely it's a sure fire bet to invest in something that's an era defining icon. Five or so years ago I bought the first year Africa Twin, a 1988 650cc model ... a proper Dakar rally icon with heaps of racing history and with the fairly recent boom in adventure bikes you would think it would go up and up in value but no, if anything it's worth less now than it did 5 years ago whilst some run of the mill, pretty bland bikes have risen exponentially. I've stopped trying to make sense of it to be honest it's anyone's guess.
This is fascinating. I’d also have thought the Africa Twin would be as safe a classic bet as anything!!
@@tuesdayatdobbs I know. Something I've always found interesting would be Honda's RC30, I've seen one go for £75k, it's a proper collector machine, rightly so ... But Hondas run of the mill VFR750, which is pretty much the same bike just toned down and made for the everyday road riding, you can buy for next to nothing .. £1500 maybe for one is decent condition and reasonable miles on the clock. It's nearly the same bike! Madness.
80's and 90's two strokes values have been strong also harder to get has made the prices rise
After watching you work on the Riumph, I would love to see your project bike 😀😀. Only kidding … another great vid😀
As vehicle technology progresses the connection between man and machine diminishes. This is one reason a lot of generally older people are so anti EV. They miss the 'feel' a mechanical engine give, NVH which reminds them of their youth etc.
Vehicles or at least cars trucks etc are moving towards being pure consumer durables. Highly efficient devices focusing on the technology rather than actual transportation 'experience'. When self drive becomes the norm that connection is pretty much entirely gone
Where motorcycles fit in in the next decade or so remains to be seen.
90s was the Sports Bike Era
I go to the Super Sausage Cafe on Sunday
& Still see a good Few Sports Bikes.
Kawasaki are Selling Them again now
"Classic Status" doesn't translate to increased VALUE! Anyone who has read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" will testify to that! Values of 1950's-1980's bikes has more to do with USABILITY! They invariably had bench seats and were easy to maintain and run! UTILITY trumps fashion and style when looking for a "classic bike"! Look at the popularity of the RE Interceptor for a PERFECT example!
Whilst the title may be scary, i think just from hearing everyones stories, its safe to say that the market will balance itself out. There are times where some motorcycles are in the limelight, then times where they aren’t. In five years, the trends could change and suddenly classics are highly desirable. Observationally id say classics are in a good spot considering the last 20 years of mainly sports bike dominance.
So in essence, I wouldn’t stress :) Sports bikes are a bit over saturated at the moment, which has caused a slightly higher demand for more adventure bikes.
Perhaps with a lot of brands producing Scrambler style bikes in recent years, theres a new market for classic style bikes. People desiring modern electronics but gorgeous styling, which isnt too far away from a stripped back, simplistic, and classic bike (with modern safety features).
Still saving for a Janus. Love the company and the bikes.
Janus is a dodgy Bond villain organisation , reference Golden Eye .
Love that Ducati SS. Too painful for me to ride for the type of riding I like to do but doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate it.
Modern retros probably dont help the classic market as you can get a bike that looks identical to the ones you lusted after in the 70's and 80's with arguably better reliability and the benefits of up to date electronics and rider aids. The car market however doesnt replicate classic designs with their new models due to modern day safety legislations and therefore classics such as the RS Ford Escort Cosworth can demand a premium.
Freddie, et al, do you know, has the gearbox/gear selector problem ever been sorted out on the bonneville models either by the replacement of the gear sellector or in recent years of manufacture [if so then when] in such a way that the issue won't reoccure?
Future classics based on bikes from 80's 90's which were popular bor listed after by younger riders at the time. I was 16 in the early 80's and eventually passed my test when I was 17 on a Kawasaki KH100. I don't see that as a future classic although it was a good looking and capable little bike. The bigger bike which was popular among older riders which I always liked was the Honda 250 Superfreak, not a particularly fast bike but very solid and relatively good looking, as a ex-rider in my 50's if I could get a 250 Superdream I would, just to scratch the itch if wanting to ride one as a young rider. The other hot 250 was the YamahaRD250LC, I had a Yamaha RD125LC which was a great bike but then sold it to get a car so never progressed beyond that 125 until I lived to Australia in 2010 and have had a couple of Royal Enfield bikes over here. So how about the Honda 250 Superdream as a future classic?
Have you seen the Mash Six hundred 650 £4600+ delivery it's built by a small company there are only a few agency's in the UK
Please tell us more.
Should I keep my K100 which was new when I got it in 1984? Nobody wants to buy them unless to make a ‘street racer’ and not as a perfect standard bike from the factory.
Freddie just a comment on the lighting - I’m sure you’ve spotted it though…
Check out the Suzuki Tempter 400cc..beautiful check out that front brake .
Roverchap makes a great point, the prices of classic bikes are fuelled by middle aged men trying to relive their youth and not many youngsters ride bikes any more. So on that basis, the stone cold future classics are the PCX125 or NMAX or a Lexmoto. Get in now before they're all in the canal or crushed under a bus.
I wanted to ask you do you ever use passing blinker since in EU blinking far lights means you let someone pass and also I wanted to ask you does the new BMW GS being 30k makes sense, but now I just feel bad because of your Boneville disaster after seeing latest video on main channel. This sucks man, I feel you so much. It's just a piece of metal but still, for us, motorguys, it's a lot to take. And pay.
Value will drop like a brick mate I’m into scooters lambretta Vespa ,bought & sold for about £80-120 when I was a kid .can’t get a bare frame now without engine for less than £700 bucks,in ten years time they be worthless again ,I’m selling up pretty soon .
My in-laws have just retired to america, and the first thing my father in law did, was to buy a Janus
Maybe check out some of the reviews on Halcyon bikes before waxing lyrical about them. Also, I can’t believe you hadn’t heard of Halcyon!
Hi Freddie I know you've done a review of the Honda super cub but recently I've just bought the Suzuki burgman Street ex125 I wonder what your thoughts are on that my friend
Well Pete was absolutely right Nostradamus right. 25 year olds aren’t interested in motorcycles. I have 20 bikes in my they are all immediately a lot of 70s 80s a few 2000s there even a DYNA. I have 3 daughters and none of the partners have ever even asked to look at them no one is interested in classic bike apart from my generation. Because they didn’t have dirtbike take girls out on bikes so they don’t get how hard we worked and sacrificed other things to buy bikes Classic bike market is dying like there owners and the government are helping it along with bad fuel high insurance premiums and a million cameras and 20 mph hour limits and I own a GPZ and a fireblade because they are iconic to me and likeminded friends to me they are art. Not investments. I have a lot of bikes that are investments and I think it’s time they where sold now. Cheers Freddie your learning.
Janus. They have their likers, and they have their haters. The likers love the look and get what the bike is all about easy to ride, easy to keep and very easy on the eye with classic (if you are into board racers) lines. The haters only focus on one thing ... The engine. It is made by Shinery in China and is the same motor used by Mash and many other Euro rebranders. These haters are the same haters that we have ... drag the bikes down and have never swung a leg over one or ever seen one in the flesh. TBH, stand a Zontes next to a Triumph or a BMW, and I defy you to damn the bike on build quality or equipment. The Mash 650 Scrambler is an animal if appropriately ridden, and the Zontes ZT380 is head and shoulders above the BMW offering. As for future classics, there are none from the 80s or 90s as they are all from the same mould, and none really stand out, except for one manufacturer - the Ducati. Any of them except the disaster that shall be nameless, and I think you know the one (DS1000.)
You only need to look at the antique / collectable car market to see that the older motorcycles will always retain their value as collectors items. You never see a 1930's or 1950's car depreciate even though that generation has passed away. Same with motorcycles, older bikes will always be desired. A 1990's car has no collector's value and your 1990's Fireblade will also not achieve collector's status. There are too few people that are even middle interested in owning one, whereas almost everyone is interested in a classic 1970's anything on two wheels. The classic upright seating position is another factor vs the cramped tucked in sport bike position in deciding if there will be a market for it with the older generations.
"All Japanese bikes are the same", says the guy that recommends a Harley :-D Pure comedy.
Nice lamps !
I think the thruxton will be regarded as a classic one day
There's something wrong with the colours on my display. It's definitely not showing Daniel's Janus in lime green - more a pale blue. Lovely bikes, though.
Infant vomit maybe?
Are you serious? They are hideous.
Janus bikes look so cool!
Rarely see what I call youngsters (sub 30 age) riding motorbikes, mostly around my age mid 50’s and above.
It’s a shame… and I agree
My prediction is motorcyclists are a dying breed by age or at lease shrinking rapidly by generations. There will be an oversupply of bikes, the inability of keeping them running.
There will be many gathering dust. I think electric is doomed but perhaps likes of small 125cc maybe everyone’s necessity. Many European cities are banning motorcycles. Fell like living in looney times. I am 64 and bulk of riders ageing. When they give up, no succession of riders or buyers. Look how many US imports there are for sale of classic bikes. There are no road repairs a deliberate ploy I believe because there will be fewer road users enforceable. Can get paranoid and catastrophic but I think it’s all very real
It seems getting your license these days is a major faff. When I was younger, you did your CBT and then I think you could ride a 125 when you were 17, then I did a 5 day course and I could ride any bike I wanted at 17. Good times.
I’m 22 and i ride a classic 350 :)
Sadly though, there are very few people I know who ride. Those who are my age, ride sports-bikes and aren’t the most verse in terms of outdoor expedition.
So sadly I would have to agree with the perspectives of everyone here.
@@ChancellorBeeHaw Hello Rhys, well done getting onto two wheels and great choice on the RE, lovely bike that. 👍