@@kennyjohnson7887 Interesting...I've heard that criticism of Todd many times and I agree in some cases (e.g. Remote Control by the Tubes, War Babies by Hall and Oates - Todd's all over them). But Skylarking is the example that I think best shows that it's not always true. I still can't hear/feel Todd's fingerprints on Skylarking after all these years. Just my $.02 worth.
Another Satellite is perfectly sequenced, it follows thematically from a wedding in Big Day to extramarital temptations. With the moon/tide lyric it pulls the imagery from space back down to earth and the ocean, setting the scene for Mermaid Smiled.
tigerlight430 and it's a fine song. Even if Mr Partridge was as awful to work with as Tod-boy says, he's still one if the most brilliant songwriters. Dear God might have sold more records but it's far from his best work.
Agreed. However, Todd’s instincts were correct, insofar as what’s gonna be a hit record. Andy is a musical genius, who only occasionally makes music for the masses. Probably by accident. His songs are quite rarified, full of modulation and rhythmic complexity. Kinda prog without the widdly widdly bits. My other half sez they sound like Gentle Giant. There’s truth in that.
DS S ... You’d love the stories Andy tells about the sessions. Look at Todd’s giant rectangular block of a head, trying to be offset w long hair. They said he looked like Herman Musnster ... every time they saw him clunking down his long grass slope leading to the studio, they’d quickly play (& try to finish) the Munsters theme song before he made it to the door! 😂😂😂😂
Andy has mellowed some while Todd clearly hasn't. From Wikipedia: In a promotional insert included with their album Nonsuch (1992), Partridge wrote "Musician and producer Todd Rundgren squeezed the XTC clay into its most complete/connected/cyclical record ever. Not an easy album to make for various ego reasons but time has humbled me into admitting that Todd conjured up some of the most magical production and arranging conceivable. A summer's day cooked into one cake."
Love both Todd and XTC. Skylarking for me was like the Beatles, "Sgt. Pepper's". Each song was a little story in it's own right. Skylarking was and still is just amazing to listen to over and over and over again. The detail put into each song is amazing. No other band besides the Beatles played such a diversity of music. - One of the greatest unrecognized bands in Rock and Roll history by mainstream media. When the topic of music comes up with kids in their 20's now I always try to steer them in the direction to listen to XTC. I like that they have also cleaned up the visual quality of some of their videos to HD. I am an old man who was a young man in university who followed them all the way thru their albums, cassettes, and cds. XTC? One of the greatest under celebrated genius's of Rock and Roll history!
you nailed it. Well said. I've also been preaching the genius of XTC for decades. One of the few bands that got better with time. Skylarking is a true work of art.
I'm not into XTC anymore, but Skylarking stands up time and time again. It will remain a classic for decades! I can't help thinking Todd was crucial to the whole thing.
The XTC fans dissing Todd should check out Andy's appearance on the Todd fan podcast Rundgren Radio. It's an hour long, and Andy actually gives Todd his due. For instance, he talks about Todd writing the arrangement for "The Man Who Sailed Around His Soul" - "He has the people skills of a Dalek, but is a God among arrangers."
I really enjoy this interview, but it bothered me when Todd criticized XTC's preference to make very lush and dense music. I like that kind of music. I always find new things in it. As long as it's done correctly and serves the song completely it doesn't matter if it's dense or if it has breaks. But the thing that really struck a nerve with me was the cheap shot about Andy's affliction. Andy didn't choose to be addicted to Valium from the age of 12 'cuz his mom got put in an insane asylum. He didn't choose to go off it on his own. His girlfriend threw away his Valium and they decided for him to go cold turkey, which caused him mental and physical harm that went on for years on undiagnosed. That's just a cheap shot by Todd. That's jerky. I'll add at the end when Todd implied that XTC failed after Todd Rundgren walked away from them. That is vainglorious and completely false. XTC had greater chart success after Rundgren. Every album they made after Rundgren is also beautiful, and some of them are masterpieces. English Settlement is a masterpiece before Skylarking. It was just dishonest, tacky and petty assertion by him.
Andy Partridge is a creative, linguistic, and harmonic genius. Skylarking was a departure from their roots, but the visual imagery in skylarking is unparalleled in music. Take it from All Along the Watchtower, on White Music, and Ballet for a Rainy Day…what creative and disparate styles! Andy may be quirky, but Andy is a genius!
Andy is an absolute genius and led a fabulous band of great musicians. Also, from watching hours of interviews with him I can tell he seems like a lovely person with incredible imagination, intelligence and insight into all kinds of art, plus a wonderful sense of humour. Todd is being really harsh describing him here
@@georgesonm1774 He might be all the things you say, but working with him might be a totally different story. It's not just Rundgren who's said this kind of stuff about him....he's fallen out with former bandmates who tell similar stories. Listen to the interview with Dave Gregory about the reasons he left XTC in 1999....it was all to do with how Partridge acted while they were recording a record and some of the things Rundgren says here happened again over a decade after Skylarking.
I saw XTC live along with Oingo Boingo and The Police and it was great! Apples and Oranges is also a very good album. Rundgren is a pop music genius who was way ahead of the pack back in the 70's.
I have a lot of respect for Todd, but calling "Another Satellite" a "stupid song" is... well, stupid. It's one of the most memorable tracks on the album by my and many other XTC fans' estimations. And Todd says "nothing has happened in the 30 years since". What does that even mean? Oranges And Lemons charted much higher than Skylarking and had two big hits on the Modern Rock charts. Nonsuch and the Apple Venus albums also did well compared to Skylarking. I love Skylarking, and I believe Todd brought a lot to the table on that album, but he just sounds petty and bitter here.
My thoughts exactly. Only Americans would consider Dear God controversial. I agree with the A & R guy as well: kids on records are nauseous. I have Satellite in my top twenty XTC records.
Only SOME Americans would consider 'Dear God' controversial - and most of that some live in the southern bible-belt states. THINKING Americans know better, thank you.
Sorry...no. just no. Rundgren hits the nail on the head. This is by far the best album by xtc. Oranges and lemons would have been much better had Todd produced it.
Mark Maron. I am a HUGE fan of yours, why don't you have Andy Partridge on and get the other side of this story? Andy is absolutely hilarious and incredibly engaging in interviews.
Love Todd, but he’s as much a “brat” as Andy, who I also love. I love a lot of Todd’s music, and he really should be in the R&R Hall of Fame, for what that is worth, but I don’t think I’d want to go on a long car drive with him. Ditto Andy.
@@bulliboyz good point. I have a distaste for anyone publicly criticizing someone- they don’t know. If I ask a club to please tune a piano snd they call me a #^^* , they may or not be right. But one thing for sure- they have no idea. Ever hear Todd talk about the death threats he gets? Blame for Lennon assassin on and on? Would take his kids and wife’s opinion only. Seems to have done well raising a daughter Liv whose father split.
I worshipped Todd in the 70s, but i don't think XTC's albums suffer from what he says. I'm not a producer, but to my ear, EVERY XTC LP sounds "right" for the era/genre in which it was created. Same for Skylarking FTM
@@philbrook5655 Not so much, I see it as a style--sort of Big Express wall of sound . I suppose one could argue that but I love many of the songs on the album. 🤪
a lot of people would say that All Things Must Pass is overproduced. And a lot of people would say that All Things Must Pass is the best ‘solo-Beatles’ album
Whoever this interviewer was, he sucked-up to TR in a pathetic way. And, Todd? After 30 years, you still take the low-road. Pathetic. Now, as 'artists' go, I like some of Todd's music (though his best days were with his Utopia friends)...but Andy Partridge has MUCH more musical/artistic talent than Todd Rundgren. We all have problems, and some (like Andy) have theirs thrown out in public for all to see and (at times) obsess over. Todd just aired his own problem. Very little respect for this guy now.
Absolutely agree. Todd was there to do a job. If Andy wants his songs (babies) to be/sound a certain way then It's Tod's job to facilitate. Of course he was there for his artistic input but can you imagine writing some tunes and someone stamping all over it then call you a prick when you contest? Tod (God) complex.
@@TheBritomart ~ Todd shaking things up yet again! Had a listen to both songs Lennon referred to, ‘I Saw the Light’ (TR) and ‘There’s a Place’ (Beatles) and I hear very little overlap, except very clearly the harmonica melody right at the end of the Beatles song, 9 years prior. Love that song by Todd, more so than the latter, but that’s just me. Anyway, thanks for the link!
Sometimes it takes oil and water to make a great painting.. Todd did produced what I think is their best album and I frickin love it, but he seems a bit spiteful here. Dear God peaked on Billboard charts at #37, Mayor of Simpleton peaked at #15. Skylarking peaked at #70 Oranges and Lemons peaked at #44. So it's odd that Todd says "nothing has happened for the band in 30 years since Skylarking". Not to mention Apple Venus 1 and 2 are frickin incredible records. What they need to do is get over their petty shit and make Skylarking 2.0! The world needs a new XTC record!
OK those other albums charted better, but what song(s) are most memorable? "Skylarking", and "Dear God" outsold XTC"s entire catalog 3 times over. Just sayin. But still love XTC! They are just an amazing band, and we all know it's mainly cause of Andy! Dude is brilliant!! Total wordsmith!
Andy may have called the shots and sometimes being prolific not everything is gold, but without Colin Moulding I would have much less interest in the band and I appreciate Dave Gregory as well .
Ugh! Todd is good at what he does, but I couldn't agree less with his assessment of Andy's skills. Obviously the interviewer didn't know much about XTC, and let Todd run away with his diatribe. Boring...
Great record. About a year after it was released I was at the bar in a studio , and I asked Colin moulding about this. He told me he really liked the record . There you go...
To me, Skylarking is one of the best albums ever put together, a top ten all-time contender. Even though Andy hated Todd, Todd performed miracles with that album. Sad that XTC never got the notoriety they so deserved, but Todd being a fan, having a great ear, and the ability to get it done, paid huge dividends for the band, even though they blew it in the longrun. Speaking of all-time great albums, if you haven't listened to Todd's Something/Anything, you're doing yourself a disservice. Other great albums he had a hand in producing are Bat Out of Hell, Remote Control and Love Bomb (masterpiece) by the Tubes.
I'm a bit confused when Todd says Andy had a reputation for driving off producers. As far as I'm aware, before working with Todd the only producer he clashed with was Clive Langer. Just before English Settlement they recorded a single with him and Alan Winstanley that never got released at the time, and within hours of beginning the session Clive realised that Andy was de facto producing the session and so he walked out. Oh, and there was Mutt Lange, who produced the This Is Pop single and demanded take after take and drove the whole band nuts, but they went along with it. Anyway, as far as I know Andy didn't have any actual clashes with John Leckie, Steve Lillywhite, Hugh Padgham, Steve Nye or David Lord. So it sounds as much that the record label just wanted the band not to go over budget. However, although I do agree that The Big Express had a bit too much going on sonically, I still love it, more than Skylarking if I'm honest. Todd is talking some shit here too though. Both him and Andy could probably do with being a little more gracious to each other this long after the event.
I think Rundgren is still resentful about how ungrateful Partridge was after the album's release. I remember how Partridge went out of his way for years to bad mouth him in every interview. Rundgren may seem like an ass in this interview but he has his reasons. It was only after everyone declared Skylarking a masterpiece that he began to start giving Rundgren some small due. I'm saying all this as a huge XTC and Rundgren fan.
Dude that rerelease of Skylarking unequivocally sounds better. I'm not an engineer so can't tell you why, but the bass is more defined and makes a huge difference to me. Probably not much to a casual listener, though. But all things said, that is XTC's best album and clearly Rundgren deserves some credit for that.
One of the funniest things that occurred during the recording was: as Todd was arriving at the recording studio each morning the band would be playing the Munsters theme
This is how I'd always heard this saga between XTC and Todd...Todd felt it was "his" album, and obviously, Andy didn't agree with that idea. They had a power struggle. However, it was a great album in the end.....so no matter who was the biggest brat, it worked. I think both parties were eventually proud of the outcome. Rundgren is a genius, but XTC is unparalleled, in my humble opinion- One of the greatest bands of all time..... and Rundgren cannot take credit for that, or "I Remember the Sun", "Millions" "Great Fire" "Ten feet Tall" and so many brilliant songs and arrangements that XTC put out over the years. Therefore, the coming together of Rundgren and XTC for Skylarking was meant to be, ended up being a great album, and everyone should be happy. Anything great is full of strife. However, XTC is the creative force here, even though Todd did his thing very well....but the real greatness is in the songwriting, not the producer. The producer is wonderful, and influential, but XTC produced amazing music without Todd Rundgren for many many years. XTC was one of the last true, uniquely original art bands. Sometimes they missed, but when they hit it, it was worth the wait. Actually, when they sounded too poppy (Peter Pumpkin Head) is when I was waiting for something more like "Snowman." XTC is my all time favorite band. I must have bought Drums and Wires 5 times during my life. I never comment on these things, by the way....but I love this band. Listening to "River of Orchids." Next up, "Ladybird," and "Chalkhills and Children." It's musical heaven for me...their whole career.
Another Satellite is one of the best songs ever made, a highlight of the album, and it's perfectly in line with the conceptual theme of the album. Bizarre take from Todd here.
Amazing how short sighted and ego filled this discussion is. I bet Andy is no angel but Todd is a tough personality, you would think that humility would enter the game because of the great gifts this man has been given.
This interview proves that Skylarking was a clash of two big egos (Todd, Andy), with Colin and Dave keeping their distance. It might have been a struggle but it produced XTC's best album and essentially revived their career. I only wish "Mermaid Smiled" was kept on the U.S. version of the album, beautiful song!
The unstoppable force vs immovable object, Andy and Todd. Its a good bet these two don't send each other Xmas cards.. tbh even Colin left XTC during the recording and had to be talked back down from the ledge by Andy to finish the LP ( at least there'll be a finished product to collect the royalties from). but the end result was pretty special. The APE reissue talks about corrected polarity from the original stereo vinyl mix off the master tapes. Funny but the UK edition never got Dear God . So..
@ArtMusic8 mermaid smiled is a great song, I agree. I don't know; Todd levels criticism at Another Satellite but that also is a pretty good song I think. Maybe just the circumstances made him hate that song or maybe he is right about that it did not fit the cycle of the album theme.
Skylarking is my favorite album by XTC. It feels like a continuation of the Dukes of Stratosphear 25 O'clock. XTC kind of stayed with the more psychedelic sound after their alter egos first release.....big fan of both bands
I think it only fair that people should look up what Andy Partridge had to say about these exact criticisms. I love Skylarking. It's a great album, but I don't think you are getting the full story here. Just saying.
There was no way Todd and Andy were going to get along. Todd is an exceptional songwriter and producer, but his engineering and mixing skills have always been questionable, at least to my ears. All of his 70's and 80's albums sound thin and punchless. He crams too much music onto his albums (maybe an outside producer could have helped with some editing, but Todd's ego would never allow for that). The drum sound on his Utopia albums is abysmal. I even thought Skylarking sounded thin (which could have been the mastering). That said, Skylarking is a masterpiece and Todd played no small role in that.
It sounded thin, according to the remaster engineer who tipped Andy Partridge off, because of a polarity mismatch at the output of Todd's mixing board. The result was that the two stereo channels of the original master were slightly out-of-phase so it sounded kind of thin and hollow. The remaster guy shifted the channels back into phase, did an A-B comparison for Andy, which led to the correction. And the proof's in the latest remaster, which does sound fuller and richer. So Andy isn't implicitly dissing Greg Calbi, as Todd suggests, because he was just mastering a defective mix-down. And let's not forget, Todd even managed to make Levon Helm's drums sound like shit - quite an achievement. But anyway... Skylarking isn't XTC's masterpiece, Apple Venus is.
+AndyQ I'll offer an equally controversial choice for second place - Oranges & Lemons. Never understood why so many people write it off as self-indulgent.
I have no dog in the Rundgren/Partridge fight - what I take away from this is that the band and the producer don't have to get along, at all, for great art to be made. Ironically, Another Satellite and Dear God are my two favorite songs on the album.
His constant feedback reminds me of a National Lampoon bit from the album That's Not Funny, That's Sick, where Richard Belzer, as "Dick Ballentine," can't stand listening to his callers and keeps interrupting them every other word.
NO WAY! EXACTLY WHAT I'M THINKING as I read and listen to this. That's freaky. One of my favorite records period. "Yeah, that's a great idea why don't you go invent one Edison". Maron and Todd are the pompous asswipes Belzer is mocking - 40 years earlier! Best looking guy you'll ever hear.
Andy has since admitted that he learned something from Rundgren, whereas Todd seems to have learned nothing. Love how he takes credit for XTC's carreer! OOOOH, he saved them from the AR meanies, otherwise it was OVAH. If he thinks Skylarking is better than The Big Express, or Apple Venus, much less the Dukes of Stratosphear work that filled the gaps on either side while the label dispute was at it's worst... or that Dear God is a better song than Another Satellite... he's a nob who can't hear past his own ears. Psycho-acoustics, my aunt fanny. I don't doubt that Andy is a tyrant, but I'll take the results... flaws and all.
Whoa, dude. Skylarking is much better than many of the other XTC albums you mentioned at least in terms of consistency and production. Big Express was an over-produced mess. Dukes albums are too nichy. I wont even get into Apple Venus. Every XTC album yields some great songs but Skylarking is an absolute masterpiece. That's due to all parties involved, not just Todd. Yeah he comes off as an ass. Very classless for him to kiss and tell like that but Todd Rundgren is a first class musician/singer-songwriter/producer and though its hard to pick an absolute favorite XTC album, in terms of production and concept, Skylarking ranks #1 for me.
Roy Groaning i think what he said is valid. todd had already been a producer hitmaker artist etc etc etc for 20 years when this came out. and the 2 xtc albums before that big express & mummer weren't successful great as they were. so the label went desperately to an american producer known for hits & boom xtc are on tv & radio again. huge fan of both btw
+Roy Groaning I agree with what you are saying! Now I will agree somewhat with cathridge that acoustically and thematically, Skylarking definitely stands out. Being a former Todd fanboy, I can hear TR's fingerprints in many areas. Big Express is over-produced & tinny-sounding and I've yet to hear Andy's remastered versions, so maybe they sound vastly improved. AppleVenus has some of the most spine tingling moments in Easter Theatre and even Greenman shines through brilliantly. Wasp Star I will admit sounds hacked together and not even as good as a lot of the stuff on Fuzzy Warbles, plus it lacked the amazingly talented Dave Gregory (kiss & make up Andy! You NEED Dave!) My favorite XTC at most times however is English Settlement, but when I'm feeling positive & in love...Skylarking will briefly knock it off it's perch ;-)
'Dear God' is a B-SIDE by a brilliant band, and it did not belong on Skylarking. My original mutilated version of the album included that mediocrity and excluded the wonderful 'Mermaid Smiled'. I love and respect much of Todd's work through the mid-80s, but he is being very ugly here, especially towards the end. XTC released Nonsuch around the same time as Todd's...'Fascist Christ"!? What crap. The two of these guys cackling at the end makes me sick.
"dear god" ... mediocrity? i agree "mermaid smiled" is wonderful, but "dear god" is among his very best compositions, and vocal performances ... the dynamics of "dear god" musically and lyrically are off the charts
Whatever. Dear God is the one song I always skip when listening to Skylarking. I got sick of it at the time it came out. They overplayed the hell out of it, on the radio, and I agree about the kids singing. Never a big fan of kids singing. I can listen to it once every now and then. But the rest of the album is gold. I agree it's the one song that doesn't fit on the album, whether I liked the song or not. It doesn't fit with the whole feel of it.
Andy wanted 'Dear God' off Skylarking because he thought he failed at addressing the subject matter and, being a perfectionist, he removed it because he wasn't satisfied. 'Another Satellite' is also a great song and fit into the original running order of the album just fine. Todd is extremely talented but a notorious prick.
Ive known and heard alot Dear God for about 20 years but only just come across Sky.... and I now think its a masterpiece of works, fantastic concept but I do feel Dear God doesnt fit in and that Sac Bon feels like the end of the album to me.
@@gaskellr44 Sacrificial Bonfire is the end. But Dear God fits well placed before Dying, both musically and thematically, which is how I originally heard the album.
I heard this album while looking through the record bins at a record store in downtown Denver. I walked over to the cashier and asked for this CD, the third in my collection at that point.
This is very interesting. I had only heard Andy's side of it and a few written accounts, but never heard Todd interviewed about it. I love the album, it's beautiful.
Andy is a puss who wont tour. Hes fucking brilliant but Im sure he is a brat. Whos bigger.......uh hard to say. At least Todd is willing to take his talent and and energy to the people. Unlike Partridge who expects to be worshipped from affar.
You would think Moulding would be the objector in TR's production style. The bass was way down in the mix in the original and has been enhanced or cranked up a bit with each subsequent remaster or remix, including Steve Wilson's, either through compression or tweaking a knob. Todd loves a treble-laden sound. Also there was a polarity issue with the original release that was addressed along the way. Not sure if occurred after it left Todd's hands or not, but it was a big oversight. Also, I don't think of this album is all that thematic, many songs fall outside of the annual cyclical subject matter. Hats off to Todd for his arrogance, making it sound like "Dear God" was the only commercial success the band as ever had and it would have never happened without his eminent grace.
The "modern" tendency is to jack up the bass fairly high, not just the instrument but lower frequencies in general. That started in the 80's, BTW... I actually have to praise Rundgren for not being one of the trend setters in that regard.
Todd is talented in many ways... Andy is eclectic and probably not the easiest person to work with. BUT Todd has confirmed his douchebaggery with this interview. You are paid good money to work as a pro, Todd. Act like one! So many great XTC songs, and Another Satellite is a great example!
It's a great album and IMO the writer is King and Gatekeeper of the process. There are tracks however where the arrangements are so important that I'd argue the arranger should be co-credited e.g. Man Who Sailed Around His Soul. The Man From Uncle/Mission Impossible arrangement makes that track and I suspect Andy didn't have much to do with it (unlike his input on MIke Batt's beautiful work on the later I Can't Own Her). I like Todd's hard-nosed approach to organising the running and recording order, tempo mapping etc and his wisdom in seeking to avoid over-working and flattening the dynamics with clutter. However, his closing comments about them achieving nothing for the next thirty years is churlish. I think Oranges & Lemons and Apple Venus are both a step ahead.
He didn't say XTC achieved nothing; he was expressing his opinion that Andy is still mad about what happened back when even though nothing has changed about the album and there has been no contact between them for 30 years.
Very interesting insights from Todd, about what was ailing XTC's albums at the time, and it sounds about right. Sharp analysis. About their conflict: In the XTC documentary "This Is Pop", Andy does admit he has a "problem with authority", specifically with people telling him what to do. Which of course is what a producer is hired to do. But it's somewhat heartening that Andy at least sees the error of his ways, even if he ultimately is unable to change them. Good thing he found Colin and Dave, who put up with it through all those years.
I think Rundgren is mixing things up when he states that ‘Another Satellite’ replaced ‘Dear God’ on the original pressing. From what I’ve read ‘Dear God’ was replaced with ‘Mermaid Smiled’, which is one of the best things Partridge’s ever written, imo. Rundgren’s statement also doesn’t make sense because, contrary to his comment, ‘Another Satellite's’ lyrical content fits in perfectly within the album’s “cycle,” whereas ‘Mermaid Smiled’ only does so tangentially. And Maron… “So they’d done what, like 3 records [before ‘Skylarking’]?” Fuck off! For someone who seems to think he’s in the know about good music - at least that’s the impression I’ve gotten, his knowledge is lacking. He seems so eager to look cool in the eyes of Rundgren throughout this interview.
When was this interview recorded? If recently, then Todd still seems to be hanging onto some deep seated resentment after all these years. I believe that Andy has tempered his vitriol.
Andy’s 2-hr interview about this on the TT pod ... yeah, Rundgren didn’t even have the POLARITY in his studio speakers wired correctly it turned out, and THAT is why they hated the sound-it only sounded good IN that studio. This was discussed in depth. And, that was Rundgren’s FIRST TIME working w digital TAPE. He didn’t even know if you could CUT/SPLICE digital tape. I love how he conveniently omits those key details to make himself look like The Man. Todd never wrote any “Dear God” ... never came close. And I grew up loving his music. But an Andy Partridge he ain’t. ✌️
I've loved Todd my whole life but his failings can't be ignored. He was a great arranger but really not a very good engineer nor did he have the patience or modesty to learn the craft properly.
That's completely un-true.Todd mapped out the tempos of all the segued songs using the Fairlight. They guy definitely knew what he was doing. Did not need to splice the tape. As to the polarity, if you test the original pressing and the remaster, the polarity is identical. Andy claimed that polarity error made it all the way to the first release, which is demonstrably a lie. But I guess when you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes reality, and it grow legs.
Todd deserves more respect. As good as XTC are, Todd had the outsiders view and discipline to stop the band going up their own arsehole. Andy would still be remixing it to this day!
Gotta disagree with Rundgren's blanket dismissal of the production quality of the albums preceding 'Skylarking'. I have no problem picking out the various elements of XTC's intricate soundscapes, and find Rundgren's observations on psychoacoustics to be misapplied. The recording quality remains high across the vast majority of the band's discography. Also, it is absurd to claim that the tyrannical Andy Partridge was destroying the band's popularity by forcing a fundamentally flawed production ideology on his bandmates. It's very rare for a band to be both artistically and commercially viable (as the former so often excludes the latter), and XTC's insistence on thought-provoking music tended to yield material less palatable for dumbed-down mainstream audiences. It's career arc seems perfectly normal to me. Not everyone gets the long glide-out of U2 or Radiohead, and what matters for XTC is how good its discography ultimately was. In my opinion they started and finished strong.
You are right when you say that Todd doesn't properly know psychoacoustics. It is when sonic phenomenon is audible that is not actually in the mix. For instance, when several elements in a mix combine to form an element not actually present, Combination tones are an example of this. Where say, if you play two piano notes together, the summing of them can at times produce a third note which was not actually played.
+Aaron Solomon: In total agreement with Mad Joe, but then he was talking from a position of long experience gained in top studios recording all kinds of acts - he still knew how to capture the basic 'guts' of a band's sound, even though his productions were eccentric. XTC were a great-sounding live unit and I (and it seems most others here) would say that their records which sound best are those which capture that in all its depth and fullness. Skylarking, for all it's brilliant and creative arrangements and sound treatments, doesn't really do that. To me it sounds kind of thin and clonky - even the remaster doesn't totally salvage it. Still, there's always Steven Wilson's remix to check out...
I have loved both Todd Rundren and XTC/Andy Partridge for many years. Saw Utopia live at least 7 times and XTC live in NYC 5 or 6 times. I always thought that many of Todd's records sounded crappy, whereas XTC's were vibrant. Never really cared that much for Skylarking. Hated DEAR GOD and thought MERMAID SMILED and ANOTHER SATELLITE were great songs, so I'd have to disagree with Todd's thoughts on those. My fave XTC album was Oranges and Lemons; Drums and Wires and now Apple Venus. I think Andy's FUZZY WARBLES series is fantastic, even though they're demos! XTC is such an underrated band that it's a crying shame. Maybe one day they'll garner the notariety they deserve.
It's very interesting hearing this story from Todd's perspective. As an audio guy, I was always skeptical of the whole 'out of phase' thing. This explains a lot and I tend to agree with Todd that it was all BS. Maybe I could be proven wrong if I heard the 'out of phase' masters but I haven't been able to track down digital versions anywhere. The bad blood is too bad but sometimes you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelette.
He can laugh off the polarity issue, but the corrected polarity version of Skylarking is a massively-improved album. The old version is on him, whether he wants to admit it or not.
I loved XTC madly, especially the first phase (WM and D&W) but also records like ES, Mummer and Skylarking, they have a repertoire that makes britpop pale, but .. I think that when someone called Todd Rundgren knocks on your studio and comes to produce a record for you, you have the right /duty to be silent and learn everything he can teach you. I mean .. Todd isn't just a musician, he's a giant, a innovator, the man behind great success and sales (Bat out of hell for example), he has shown widely that he can do everything with great talent. He use to release a buch of Lp performing EVERY single instrument and singing, composing legendary tunes too. I repeat .. I love Partridge sw and those C.Moulding pop pearls ..But .... there is a scale of values.
Actually Dear God was replaced with Mermaid Smile. Plus, XTC made more good records afterward like Apple Venus Volume One although Dave Gregory might disagree.
Todd’s dismissive and derogatory tone to the albums just pre and post skylarking tells you all you need to know. He isn’t being completely objective or honest about his comments.
Why is it "classless" for Todd to report that Andy Partridge was a douche? If he reported that Andy was a wonderful man to work with you'd let that personal bit of info fly, but when it's negative you can't fucking take that.
I bought the original Skylarking, sans Dear God, in Belgium in December, 1987 while in the Air Force. I thought it was stunning and it remains one of my all time favorite albums. A few months later I was discharged and returned to the U.S. about the same time Dear God was causing an uproar in certain parts of the South. I listened to it, considered it kind of a cornball novelty tune, and haven't changed my mind about it since. I understand the economic reasons for putting it on the album, but in my opinion, Skylarking was much better off without it. Still I give kudos to Rundgren for producing a classic work.
I like the song, and it has great production values, but I think it has one of the dumbest lyrics at the start of the song: "Dear God...I pray you make it better down here, and I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer..." I think the rest of the lyrics are great, but those first lines, I think Andy Partridge should have revised them. Sounds like a pretentious 12 year old wrote them.
@@thehighllama8101 Thanks for your reply. I just listened to Dear God again and agree that it was very well produced. It also features some solid musicianship. Still, those opening lines, along with the child singing, just sets the wrong tone for me. That's just my own taste. In my opinion, Another Satellite is a much stronger track and fits in more organically with the rest of the album. Of course, though, I am strongly influenced by the way I originally heard the album plus the fact that Skylarking or Dear God was not my introduction to the band. I had been listening to XTC for quite some time before they were released..
I adore Skylarking, and know Todd was a huge part it. They had already done the first Dukes of Stratosphere album. The Tubes' Prairie Prince played drums on it.
This article explains how the polarity was fucked on skylarking and Andy was right. It sounded thin! www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2010/06/30/xtc-skylarking-reissue-vinyl-corrected/
Is anybody here going to mention the guy who is interviewing Todd? Hmmm? It's Mark Maron on the WTF Podcast. There's probably 45 more minutes out there.
Nice interview I'll admit, but I disagree about Dear God being the better song, it may be a more radio friendly song, but XTC is not about being radio friendly, XTC is anything but pop. I bought the original version of Skylarking and definitely believe it is great album, Todd got a great sound out of them, but I love Another Satellite, I wore out my 1st album when I re bought it and found out that they replaced Another satellite with Dear God I was totally bummed. It wasn't till about 10 years later that I was able to find a copy where they put Another Satellite back on, but it was a different recording, still a little bummed but oh well. I think the interviewer should have done his homework. Before Skylarking, XTC had already established themselves as one of the Greatest bands on Earth! In my opinion greater songwriters than Todd could ever hope to be. No doubt Todd is a great producer, but XTC put out exceptional music before Todd, and definitely after Todd. Just for the record XTC is one of my favorite bands, so I am partial to them.
Todd was an adventure that was waiting to happen, many happy accidents make fluffy clouds ⛅ in the big picture. Having a song about cross could lead to crossed wires. 😊
Uh, I have to disagree with Todd about “Another Satellite”. It’s one of the most brilliant songs on the album lyrically with its scathing lyrics about romantic interest from a jaundiced recipient who was already in a relationship, and it fits perfectly into the song cycle and is captures the main character in the Fall stage of life in a unique and incisive way. That being said, the entire album is brilliant and is one of the most perfect sounding albums I’ve ever heard.
Todd’s observations, when listening thru the obvious hyperbole are probably still spot on, but his opinion on “Another Satellite” sellls it way short and (listening right now to the DVD) the track fits just fine in the sequence and hardly sounds “forced” or “jammed” into the tracklist. Todd clearly doesn’t like his failure to get the last word on this subject, and the album lives on as XTC’s masterpiece, not his.
Todd Rungren is a genius and Skylarking is one of the best albums ever recorded.
Andy Partridge is the genius
Everything Todd touches sounds like him. Totally forgets what his job is supposed to be.
@@bulliboyz I'm with you. Songwriting just does not get any better than Andy at his best.
*Andy Partridge* is a genius and Skylarking is one of the best albums ever recorded.
@@kennyjohnson7887 Interesting...I've heard that criticism of Todd many times and I agree in some cases (e.g. Remote Control by the Tubes, War Babies by Hall and Oates - Todd's all over them). But Skylarking is the example that I think best shows that it's not always true. I still can't hear/feel Todd's fingerprints on Skylarking after all these years. Just my $.02 worth.
Another Satellite is perfectly sequenced, it follows thematically from a wedding in Big Day to extramarital temptations. With the moon/tide lyric it pulls the imagery from space back down to earth and the ocean, setting the scene for Mermaid Smiled.
Nice!
tigerlight430 and it's a fine song. Even if Mr Partridge was as awful to work with as Tod-boy says, he's still one if the most brilliant songwriters. Dear God might have sold more records but it's far from his best work.
Yes, indeed!
Agreed. However, Todd’s instincts were correct, insofar as what’s gonna be a hit record. Andy is a musical genius, who only occasionally makes music for the masses. Probably by accident. His songs are quite rarified, full of modulation and rhythmic complexity. Kinda prog without the widdly widdly bits. My other half sez they sound like Gentle Giant. There’s truth in that.
Not just that. It's part of the nighttime portion of the album. No idea why Todd thinks it doesn't fit.
"Crappy stupid" song "Another Satellite"?! I gotta disagree with Rundgren. Love that song!
Rundgren is a cunt. This "interview" aalone proves it.
Another Satellite is my favorite XTC song. Not sure how/why he hates it. Maybe because he had no involvement in it.
DS S ...
You’d love the stories Andy tells about the sessions. Look at Todd’s giant rectangular block of a head, trying to be offset w long hair. They said he looked like Herman Musnster ... every time they saw him clunking down his long grass slope leading to the studio, they’d quickly play (& try to finish) the Munsters theme song before he made it to the door! 😂😂😂😂
@@Mo_Ketchups LMAO Andy is a really funny guy.
@@philipfrank6444 Yes, I mean look at his recording and production history versus XTC's success. He sure doesn't have a clue.
Can't these two just bury the hatchet? They created an amazing album together.
Andy has mellowed some while Todd clearly hasn't. From Wikipedia:
In a promotional insert included with their album Nonsuch (1992), Partridge wrote "Musician and producer Todd Rundgren squeezed the XTC clay into its most complete/connected/cyclical record ever. Not an easy album to make for various ego reasons but time has humbled me into admitting that Todd conjured up some of the most magical production and arranging conceivable. A summer's day cooked into one cake."
Yeah Todd really pisses me off in this video
@@hapahapahappy get over it
@@hapahapahappy why? he's decent. andy has some growing up to do.
I agree. Some might say, however, that what made this such an amazing album was all of the fireworks.
Been an xtc fan since day one and hearing TR retell the feud with AP is so funny. Never knew that. Rundgren is genius. So multi talented.
Love both Todd and XTC. Skylarking for me was like the Beatles, "Sgt. Pepper's". Each song was a little story in it's own right. Skylarking was and still is just amazing to listen to over and over and over again. The detail put into each song is amazing. No other band besides the Beatles played such a diversity of music. - One of the greatest unrecognized bands in Rock and Roll history by mainstream media. When the topic of music comes up with kids in their 20's now I always try to steer them in the direction to listen to XTC. I like that they have also cleaned up the visual quality of some of their videos to HD. I am an old man who was a young man in university who followed them all the way thru their albums, cassettes, and cds. XTC? One of the greatest under celebrated genius's of Rock and Roll history!
I said this to anybody who would listen when it came out and I was playing it non stop for months, Skylarking was the Sgt. Peppers of it's time.
you nailed it. Well said. I've also been preaching the genius of XTC for decades. One of the few bands that got better with time. Skylarking is a true work of art.
Same crusade here, Madrid City Spain 🎯 VIVA XTc
I'm not into XTC anymore, but Skylarking stands up time and time again. It will remain a classic for decades! I can't help thinking Todd was crucial to the whole thing.
Yep. Your Sgt. Pepper's analogy is exactly what my reaction was when I first bought it on release. It's a truly mesmerizing sonic experience.
The XTC fans dissing Todd should check out Andy's appearance on the Todd fan podcast Rundgren Radio. It's an hour long, and Andy actually gives Todd his due. For instance, he talks about Todd writing the arrangement for "The Man Who Sailed Around His Soul" - "He has the people skills of a Dalek, but is a God among arrangers."
He called Andy a "pussy" ironic that he is a CUNT. In the talent contest AP kicks TR into touch every day of the week.
He definitely gives him kudos an an arranger, but as an engineer he's crap.
I wonder what Dave Gregory thinks?
Jeebs Gold, I think he would be fairly neutral or side with Andy.
He also does on the documentary just released. Time Heals or maybe it should be "Money Heals" lol!
I'm sad that Marc is an accidental Andy hater here. He clearly has no idea what he's talking about.
Maron only half researches his guests. He does so many pods he doesn't research anything anymore.
@@ffejm6409 Not fair. Often he does a good job with his research, but let's just say sometimes he really fucks up.
I really enjoy this interview, but it bothered me when Todd criticized XTC's preference to make very lush and dense music.
I like that kind of music. I always find new things in it. As long as it's done correctly and serves the song completely it doesn't matter if it's dense or if it has breaks.
But the thing that really struck a nerve with me was the cheap shot about Andy's affliction.
Andy didn't choose to be addicted to Valium from the age of 12 'cuz his mom got put in an insane asylum. He didn't choose to go off it on his own. His girlfriend threw away his Valium and they decided for him to go cold turkey, which caused him mental and physical harm that went on for years on undiagnosed. That's just a cheap shot by Todd. That's jerky.
I'll add at the end when Todd implied that XTC failed after Todd Rundgren walked away from them. That is vainglorious and completely false. XTC had greater chart success after Rundgren. Every album they made after Rundgren is also beautiful, and some of them are masterpieces. English Settlement is a masterpiece before Skylarking. It was just dishonest, tacky and petty assertion by him.
For Maron this is restraint often he interviews himself about how the guest effected him while the guest is there.
Andy Partridge is a creative, linguistic, and harmonic genius. Skylarking was a departure from their roots, but the visual imagery in skylarking is unparalleled in music. Take it from All Along the Watchtower, on White Music, and Ballet for a Rainy Day…what creative and disparate styles! Andy may be quirky, but Andy is a genius!
Andy is an absolute genius and led a fabulous band of great musicians. Also, from watching hours of interviews with him I can tell he seems like a lovely person with incredible imagination, intelligence and insight into all kinds of art, plus a wonderful sense of humour. Todd is being really harsh describing him here
@@georgesonm1774 He might be all the things you say, but working with him might be a totally different story. It's not just Rundgren who's said this kind of stuff about him....he's fallen out with former bandmates who tell similar stories. Listen to the interview with Dave Gregory about the reasons he left XTC in 1999....it was all to do with how Partridge acted while they were recording a record and some of the things Rundgren says here happened again over a decade after Skylarking.
Todd made a masterpiece and should be very proud....Thank you for that album .....It was fucking great !
I saw XTC live along with Oingo Boingo and The Police and it was great! Apples and Oranges is also a very good album. Rundgren is a pop music genius who was way ahead of the pack back in the 70's.
Wow! What a line-up!!!
Xtc, + Police, + OINGO BOINGO ?
😮😮 WOW...!
I have a lot of respect for Todd, but calling "Another Satellite" a "stupid song" is... well, stupid. It's one of the most memorable tracks on the album by my and many other XTC fans' estimations.
And Todd says "nothing has happened in the 30 years since". What does that even mean? Oranges And Lemons charted much higher than Skylarking and had two big hits on the Modern Rock charts. Nonsuch and the Apple Venus albums also did well compared to Skylarking.
I love Skylarking, and I believe Todd brought a lot to the table on that album, but he just sounds petty and bitter here.
I don't think he sounds bitter at all. Andy blew it. Todd did his thing, produced a great album, and Andy just shit on everything.
Another Satellite is one hell of a song. I'd take it over Dear God anyday!
My thoughts exactly. Only Americans would consider Dear God controversial. I agree with the A & R guy as well: kids on records are nauseous. I have Satellite in my top twenty XTC records.
Only SOME Americans would consider 'Dear God' controversial - and most of that some live in the southern bible-belt states. THINKING Americans know better, thank you.
Well, I THINK you should live up to your pen name and...
that's what i was thinking!!!! "Another Satellite" is an amazing song. It stands out from the rest of the album.
Sorry...no. just no. Rundgren hits the nail on the head. This is by far the best album by xtc. Oranges and lemons would have been much better had Todd produced it.
Mark Maron. I am a HUGE fan of yours, why don't you have Andy Partridge on and get the other side of this story? Andy is absolutely hilarious and incredibly engaging in interviews.
SUPERLOVE It would be interesting to have Todd AND Andy on at the same time!
O it would be a cat fight meow
Todd: “What a pussy.”
Andy: “I can take humiliation, and hurtful comments from the boss.”
very well done LOL
I appreciate both TR and Andy's candor, humor, and strongly held opinions on this topic. Refreshing.
I wonder if they'd woke their shit up these days!
They played live when I was young in the late 70s, and I saw them more than once. Brilliant.
Love Todd, but he’s as much a “brat” as Andy, who I also love. I love a lot of Todd’s music, and he really should be in the R&R Hall of Fame, for what that is worth, but I don’t think I’d want to go on a long car drive with him. Ditto Andy.
There's a reality TV Show.
Hes too talented for the Hall of Fame.
Perfect match. He likely would same the same about you. You are set. Another self celebrated critic. Share your stuff for scrutiny?ty
@@golds04 where has he criticised the music? You can love someone’s art without like the artist who creates it
@@bulliboyz good point. I have a distaste for anyone publicly criticizing someone- they don’t know. If I ask a club to please tune a piano snd they call me a #^^* , they may or not be right. But one thing for sure- they have no idea. Ever hear Todd talk about the death threats he gets? Blame for Lennon assassin on and on? Would take his kids and wife’s opinion only. Seems to have done well raising a daughter Liv whose father split.
Todd Rungren: Thank you for producing an absolute masterpiece!
One of my favorite records of all time
I worshipped Todd in the 70s, but i don't think XTC's albums suffer from what he says. I'm not a producer, but to my ear, EVERY XTC LP sounds "right" for the era/genre in which it was created. Same for Skylarking FTM
But he ended it saying NOTHING has happened since that album for them! Hah, Peter Pumpkinhead would like a word.
You must admit that Oranges and Lemons is overcooked.
@@philbrook5655 Not so much, I see it as a style--sort of Big Express wall of sound
. I suppose one could argue that but I love many of the songs on the album. 🤪
Big express , Mummer etc . He might have a point about the production. But I just overlooked it always because the songs were so good
a lot of people would say that All Things Must Pass is overproduced. And a lot of people would say that All Things Must Pass is the best ‘solo-Beatles’ album
Whoever this interviewer was, he sucked-up to TR in a pathetic way. And, Todd? After 30 years, you still take the low-road. Pathetic.
Now, as 'artists' go, I like some of Todd's music (though his best days were with his Utopia friends)...but Andy Partridge has MUCH more musical/artistic talent than Todd Rundgren. We all have problems, and some (like Andy) have theirs thrown out in public for all to see and (at times) obsess over. Todd just aired his own problem. Very little respect for this guy now.
Absolutely agree. Todd was there to do a job. If Andy wants his songs (babies) to be/sound a certain way then It's Tod's job to facilitate. Of course he was there for his artistic input but can you imagine writing some tunes and someone stamping all over it then call you a prick when you contest? Tod (God) complex.
I dont care how they got there; I'm just glad its there. Top 10 album of the 1980s.
Would be a good time for Andy to write his opus, "Dear Todd".
Haha! Good one.
🤣
Very good!
faroutmagazine.co.uk/john-lennon-beatles-letter-todd-rundgren/
@@TheBritomart ~ Todd shaking things up yet again! Had a listen to both songs Lennon referred to, ‘I Saw the Light’ (TR) and ‘There’s a Place’ (Beatles) and I hear very little overlap, except very clearly the harmonica melody right at the end of the Beatles song, 9 years prior. Love that song by Todd, more so than the latter, but that’s just me. Anyway, thanks for the link!
Sometimes it takes oil and water to make a great painting.. Todd did produced what I think is their best album and I frickin love it, but he seems a bit spiteful here. Dear God peaked on Billboard charts at #37, Mayor of Simpleton peaked at #15. Skylarking peaked at #70 Oranges and Lemons peaked at #44. So it's odd that Todd says "nothing has happened for the band in 30 years since Skylarking". Not to mention Apple Venus 1 and 2 are frickin incredible records. What they need to do is get over their petty shit and make Skylarking 2.0! The world needs a new XTC record!
OK those other albums charted better, but what song(s) are most memorable? "Skylarking", and "Dear God" outsold XTC"s entire catalog 3 times over. Just sayin. But still love XTC! They are just an amazing band, and we all know it's mainly cause of Andy! Dude is brilliant!! Total wordsmith!
Andy may have called the shots and sometimes being prolific not everything is gold, but without Colin Moulding I would have much less interest in the band and I appreciate Dave Gregory as well .
good call
I've always thought APPLE VENUS, Vol. II was lacking due to Gregory not being involved.
Colin is my favorite bass player & a great songwriter
Exactly. It’s a true band. They’re XTC, they all contribute equally.
Ugh! Todd is good at what he does, but I couldn't agree less with his assessment of Andy's skills. Obviously the interviewer didn't know much about XTC, and let Todd run away with his diatribe. Boring...
I grew up with both iconic bands.but Todd Rundgren is an amazing multi talented trailblazer!!!!
Great record. About a year after it was released I was at the bar in a studio , and I asked Colin moulding about this.
He told me he really liked the record . There you go...
To me, Skylarking is one of the best albums ever put together, a top ten all-time contender. Even though Andy hated Todd, Todd performed miracles with that album. Sad that XTC never got the notoriety they so deserved, but Todd being a fan, having a great ear, and the ability to get it done, paid huge dividends for the band, even though they blew it in the longrun. Speaking of all-time great albums, if you haven't listened to Todd's Something/Anything, you're doing yourself a disservice. Other great albums he had a hand in producing are Bat Out of Hell, Remote Control and Love Bomb (masterpiece) by the Tubes.
Wizard A True Star is a great Rundgren album too. Very dynamic.
I'm a bit confused when Todd says Andy had a reputation for driving off producers. As far as I'm aware, before working with Todd the only producer he clashed with was Clive Langer. Just before English Settlement they recorded a single with him and Alan Winstanley that never got released at the time, and within hours of beginning the session Clive realised that Andy was de facto producing the session and so he walked out. Oh, and there was Mutt Lange, who produced the This Is Pop single and demanded take after take and drove the whole band nuts, but they went along with it. Anyway, as far as I know Andy didn't have any actual clashes with John Leckie, Steve Lillywhite, Hugh Padgham, Steve Nye or David Lord. So it sounds as much that the record label just wanted the band not to go over budget.
However, although I do agree that The Big Express had a bit too much going on sonically, I still love it, more than Skylarking if I'm honest.
Todd is talking some shit here too though. Both him and Andy could probably do with being a little more gracious to each other this long after the event.
Andy has definitely been more gracious towards Todd over the years, Todd just can't get over his huge ego and stop talking shit about Andy
yeah, todds full of shit.
I think Rundgren is still resentful about how ungrateful Partridge was after the album's release. I remember how Partridge went out of his way for years to bad mouth him in every interview. Rundgren may seem like an ass in this interview but he has his reasons. It was only after everyone declared Skylarking a masterpiece that he began to start giving Rundgren some small due. I'm saying all this as a huge XTC and Rundgren fan.
Dude that rerelease of Skylarking unequivocally sounds better. I'm not an engineer so can't tell you why, but the bass is more defined and makes a huge difference to me. Probably not much to a casual listener, though. But all things said, that is XTC's best album and clearly Rundgren deserves some credit for that.
One of the funniest things that occurred during the recording was: as Todd was arriving at the recording studio each morning the band would be playing the Munsters theme
man fascinating as a huge XTC fan this interviewer though obviously had no idea about XTC's music
another satellite is NOT a stupid song
Todd's commitment to getting this album done so well is what made it so great.
This is how I'd always heard this saga between XTC and Todd...Todd felt it was "his" album, and obviously, Andy didn't agree with that idea. They had a power struggle. However, it was a great album in the end.....so no matter who was the biggest brat, it worked. I think both parties were eventually proud of the outcome. Rundgren is a genius, but XTC is unparalleled, in my humble opinion- One of the greatest bands of all time..... and Rundgren cannot take credit for that, or "I Remember the Sun", "Millions" "Great Fire" "Ten feet Tall" and so many brilliant songs and arrangements that XTC put out over the years. Therefore, the coming together of Rundgren and XTC for Skylarking was meant to be, ended up being a great album, and everyone should be happy. Anything great is full of strife. However, XTC is the creative force here, even though Todd did his thing very well....but the real greatness is in the songwriting, not the producer. The producer is wonderful, and influential, but XTC produced amazing music without Todd Rundgren for many many years. XTC was one of the last true, uniquely original art bands. Sometimes they missed, but when they hit it, it was worth the wait. Actually, when they sounded too poppy (Peter Pumpkin Head) is when I was waiting for something more like "Snowman." XTC is my all time favorite band. I must have bought Drums and Wires 5 times during my life. I never comment on these things, by the way....but I love this band. Listening to "River of Orchids." Next up, "Ladybird," and "Chalkhills and Children." It's musical heaven for me...their whole career.
The King's Servant.
Yeah, just an amazing band
Another Satellite is one of the best songs ever made, a highlight of the album, and it's perfectly in line with the conceptual theme of the album. Bizarre take from Todd here.
That song is fine on the album, but it just doesn't catch you like Dear God.
I like it so much more than Dear God.
@@jordancooperlalala Fair enough.
Amazing how short sighted and ego filled this discussion is. I bet Andy is no angel but Todd is a tough personality, you would think that humility would enter the game because of the great gifts this man has been given.
wrong, Todd never thinks any album is "his" except for his...
This interview proves that Skylarking was a clash of two big egos (Todd, Andy), with Colin and Dave keeping their distance. It might have been a struggle but it produced XTC's best album and essentially revived their career. I only wish "Mermaid Smiled" was kept on the U.S. version of the album, beautiful song!
English Settelment is easily XTC"s best work . Tho Skylarking is the perfect album as an introduction to the band.
The unstoppable force vs immovable object, Andy and Todd. Its a good bet these two don't send each other Xmas cards.. tbh even Colin left XTC during the recording and had to be talked back down from the ledge by Andy to finish the LP ( at least there'll be a finished product to collect the royalties from).
but the end result was pretty special. The APE reissue talks about corrected polarity from the original stereo vinyl mix off the master tapes. Funny but the UK edition never got Dear God . So..
@ArtMusic8 mermaid smiled is a great song, I agree. I don't know; Todd levels criticism at Another Satellite but that also is a pretty good song I think. Maybe just the circumstances made him hate that song or maybe he is right about that it did not fit the cycle of the album theme.
Skylarking is my favorite album by XTC. It feels like a continuation of the Dukes of Stratosphear 25 O'clock. XTC kind of stayed with the more psychedelic sound after their alter egos first release.....big fan of both bands
I think it only fair that people should look up what Andy Partridge had to say about these exact criticisms. I love Skylarking. It's a great album, but I don't think you are getting the full story here. Just saying.
Thanks Todd for producing their best album.
There was no way Todd and Andy were going to get along. Todd is an exceptional songwriter and producer, but his engineering and mixing skills have always been questionable, at least to my ears. All of his 70's and 80's albums sound thin and punchless. He crams too much music onto his albums (maybe an outside producer could have helped with some editing, but Todd's ego would never allow for that). The drum sound on his Utopia albums is abysmal. I even thought Skylarking sounded thin (which could have been the mastering). That said, Skylarking is a masterpiece and Todd played no small role in that.
It sounded thin, according to the remaster engineer who tipped Andy Partridge off, because of a polarity mismatch at the output of Todd's mixing board. The result was that the two stereo channels of the original master were slightly out-of-phase so it sounded kind of thin and hollow. The remaster guy shifted the channels back into phase, did an A-B comparison for Andy, which led to the correction. And the proof's in the latest remaster, which does sound fuller and richer. So Andy isn't implicitly dissing Greg Calbi, as Todd suggests, because he was just mastering a defective mix-down.
And let's not forget, Todd even managed to make Levon Helm's drums sound like shit - quite an achievement.
But anyway... Skylarking isn't XTC's masterpiece, Apple Venus is.
Apollo C. Vermouth I'm going against the tide and proffering Mummer for that role, the bridge between spiky bolshy pop and pastoral reflection
+AndyQ I'll offer an equally controversial choice for second place - Oranges & Lemons. Never understood why so many people write it off as self-indulgent.
Apollo C. Vermouth. I remember playing it constantly when it was released. Good times. Not a lemon at all.
Apple Venus is twaddle. Drums and Wires is their masterpiece.
I have no dog in the Rundgren/Partridge fight - what I take away from this is that the band and the producer don't have to get along, at all, for great art to be made.
Ironically, Another Satellite and Dear God are my two favorite songs on the album.
Todd doesn't get along with Andy, The New York Dolls, or The Band...hmm...
Yeah, must be all those other groups, ha!
the interviewer is terrible. my God he doesn't even know what album they were discussing. or anything about the band.
His constant feedback reminds me of a National Lampoon bit from the album That's Not Funny, That's Sick, where Richard Belzer, as "Dick Ballentine," can't stand listening to his callers and keeps interrupting them every other word.
NO WAY! EXACTLY WHAT I'M THINKING as I read and listen to this. That's freaky. One of my favorite records period. "Yeah, that's a great idea why don't you go invent one Edison". Maron and Todd are the pompous asswipes Belzer is mocking - 40 years earlier! Best looking guy you'll ever hear.
Jerry Smith LOL brother!
You've got that right.... He's a disaster.... I'm sure TR left with a migraine... What an idiot.
Andy has since admitted that he learned something from Rundgren, whereas Todd seems to have learned nothing. Love how he takes credit for XTC's carreer! OOOOH, he saved them from the AR meanies, otherwise it was OVAH. If he thinks Skylarking is better than The Big Express, or Apple Venus, much less the Dukes of Stratosphear work that filled the gaps on either side while the label dispute was at it's worst... or that Dear God is a better song than Another Satellite... he's a nob who can't hear past his own ears. Psycho-acoustics, my aunt fanny. I don't doubt that Andy is a tyrant, but I'll take the results... flaws and all.
Whoa, dude. Skylarking is much better than many of the other XTC albums you mentioned at least in terms of consistency and production. Big Express was an over-produced mess. Dukes albums are too nichy. I wont even get into Apple Venus. Every XTC album yields some great songs but Skylarking is an absolute masterpiece. That's due to all parties involved, not just Todd. Yeah he comes off as an ass. Very classless for him to kiss and tell like that but Todd Rundgren is a first class musician/singer-songwriter/producer and though its hard to pick an absolute favorite XTC album, in terms of production and concept, Skylarking ranks #1 for me.
You should get into Apple Venus. It's a very great album
Todd is the MAN! As much as I love XTC, Andy is lucky to lick the sweat off his balls in my humble opinion
Roy Groaning i think what he said is valid. todd had already been a producer hitmaker artist etc etc etc for 20 years when this came out. and the 2 xtc albums before that big express & mummer weren't successful great as they were. so the label went desperately to an american producer known for hits & boom xtc are on tv & radio again. huge fan of both btw
+Roy Groaning I agree with what you are saying! Now I will agree somewhat with cathridge that acoustically and thematically, Skylarking definitely stands out. Being a former Todd fanboy, I can hear TR's fingerprints in many areas. Big Express is over-produced & tinny-sounding and I've yet to hear Andy's remastered versions, so maybe they sound vastly improved. AppleVenus has some of the most spine tingling moments in Easter Theatre and even Greenman shines through brilliantly. Wasp Star I will admit sounds hacked together and not even as good as a lot of the stuff on Fuzzy Warbles, plus it lacked the amazingly talented Dave Gregory (kiss & make up Andy! You NEED Dave!) My favorite XTC at most times however is English Settlement, but when I'm feeling positive & in love...Skylarking will briefly knock it off it's perch ;-)
'Dear God' is a B-SIDE by a brilliant band, and it did not belong on Skylarking. My original mutilated version of the album included that mediocrity and excluded the wonderful 'Mermaid Smiled'. I love and respect much of Todd's work through the mid-80s, but he is being very ugly here, especially towards the end. XTC released Nonsuch around the same time as Todd's...'Fascist Christ"!? What crap. The two of these guys cackling at the end makes me sick.
Totally agree. Towards the end, the interviewer just sounds like a sycophant egging Todd on.
"dear god" ... mediocrity? i agree "mermaid smiled" is wonderful, but "dear god" is among his very best compositions, and vocal performances ... the dynamics of "dear god" musically and lyrically are off the charts
Whatever. Dear God is the one song I always skip when listening to Skylarking. I got sick of it at the time it came out. They overplayed the hell out of it, on the radio, and I agree about the kids singing. Never a big fan of kids singing. I can listen to it once every now and then. But the rest of the album is gold. I agree it's the one song that doesn't fit on the album, whether I liked the song or not. It doesn't fit with the whole feel of it.
Ugly? Maybe, but maybe Andy was ugly in bashing the album after it's release.
Andy wanted 'Dear God' off Skylarking because he thought he failed at addressing the subject matter and, being a perfectionist, he removed it because he wasn't satisfied. 'Another Satellite' is also a great song and fit into the original running order of the album just fine.
Todd is extremely talented but a notorious prick.
So is Andy
Ive known and heard alot Dear God for about 20 years but only just come across Sky.... and I now think its a masterpiece of works, fantastic concept but I do feel Dear God doesnt fit in and that Sac Bon feels like the end of the album to me.
Probably a bit jealous of Andy's natural gift that was on par with John and Paul. (But he kind of squandered it being a jackass)
I didn't know that about him but he certainly sounds like a dickhead.
@@gaskellr44 Sacrificial Bonfire is the end. But Dear God fits well placed before Dying, both musically and thematically, which is how I originally heard the album.
I heard this album while looking through the record bins at a record store in downtown Denver. I walked over to the cashier and asked for this CD, the third in my collection at that point.
Awesome. I love Marc Maron, Todd Rundgren, and especially XTC, so this was a nice surprise.
This is very interesting. I had only heard Andy's side of it and a few written accounts, but never heard Todd interviewed about it. I love the album, it's beautiful.
Another Satellite is my Favorite song on the CD to think it almost didn't make it on the CD
Who's the biggest brat... having heard this it's difficult to tell?
Well, we know who's the biggest "runt." ;)
Andy is a puss who wont tour. Hes fucking brilliant but Im sure he is a brat. Whos bigger.......uh hard to say. At least Todd is willing to take his talent and and energy to the people. Unlike Partridge who expects to be worshipped from affar.
Todd has had more success. Andy could have.
You would think Moulding would be the objector in TR's production style. The bass was way down in the mix in the original and has been enhanced or cranked up a bit with each subsequent remaster or remix, including Steve Wilson's, either through compression or tweaking a knob. Todd loves a treble-laden sound. Also there was a polarity issue with the original release that was addressed along the way. Not sure if occurred after it left Todd's hands or not, but it was a big oversight. Also, I don't think of this album is all that thematic, many songs fall outside of the annual cyclical subject matter. Hats off to Todd for his arrogance, making it sound like "Dear God" was the only commercial success the band as ever had and it would have never happened without his eminent grace.
The "modern" tendency is to jack up the bass fairly high, not just the instrument but lower frequencies in general. That started in the 80's, BTW... I actually have to praise Rundgren for not being one of the trend setters in that regard.
What was wrong is Todd Rundgren is not Steve Lilywhite.
Yeah, Another Satellite is amazing so it kinda makes you wonder about the rest of what he's saying.
Mark Maron: "Ok, so they had done like what, 3 records?" LOL!!!
Yeah, that was funny. Would have taken him all of 30 seconds to check out their discography before this interview.
@@v-town1980 to be fair it's not an xtc interview, it's a todd rundgren interview
Todd is talented in many ways... Andy is eclectic and probably not the easiest person to work with. BUT Todd has confirmed his douchebaggery with this interview. You are paid good money to work as a pro, Todd. Act like one! So many great XTC songs, and Another Satellite is a great example!
It's a great album and IMO the writer is King and Gatekeeper of the process. There are tracks however where the arrangements are so important that I'd argue the arranger should be co-credited e.g. Man Who Sailed Around His Soul. The Man From Uncle/Mission Impossible arrangement makes that track and I suspect Andy didn't have much to do with it (unlike his input on MIke Batt's beautiful work on the later I Can't Own Her). I like Todd's hard-nosed approach to organising the running and recording order, tempo mapping etc and his wisdom in seeking to avoid over-working and flattening the dynamics with clutter. However, his closing comments about them achieving nothing for the next thirty years is churlish. I think Oranges & Lemons and Apple Venus are both a step ahead.
He didn't say XTC achieved nothing; he was expressing his opinion that Andy is still mad about what happened back when even though nothing has changed about the album and there has been no contact between them for 30 years.
Very interesting insights from Todd, about what was ailing XTC's albums at the time, and it sounds about right. Sharp analysis. About their conflict: In the XTC documentary "This Is Pop", Andy does admit he has a "problem with authority", specifically with people telling him what to do. Which of course is what a producer is hired to do. But it's somewhat heartening that Andy at least sees the error of his ways, even if he ultimately is unable to change them. Good thing he found Colin and Dave, who put up with it through all those years.
I think Rundgren is mixing things up when he states that ‘Another Satellite’ replaced ‘Dear God’ on the original pressing. From what I’ve read ‘Dear God’ was replaced with ‘Mermaid Smiled’, which is one of the best things Partridge’s ever written, imo. Rundgren’s statement also doesn’t make sense because, contrary to his comment, ‘Another Satellite's’ lyrical content fits in perfectly within the album’s “cycle,” whereas ‘Mermaid Smiled’ only does so tangentially.
And Maron… “So they’d done what, like 3 records [before ‘Skylarking’]?” Fuck off! For someone who seems to think he’s in the know about good music - at least that’s the impression I’ve gotten, his knowledge is lacking. He seems so eager to look cool in the eyes of Rundgren throughout this interview.
Is Wonderland on this Album? Great tune ...Todd IS God.Dear Todd!
I think it's just a clash of two tremendous egos. They're both brilliant, and sometimes they can be total assholes. I love them both.
When was this interview recorded? If recently, then Todd still seems to be hanging onto some deep seated resentment after all these years. I believe that Andy has tempered his vitriol.
" the lady doth protest too much, methinks"
Andy’s 2-hr interview about this on the TT pod ... yeah, Rundgren didn’t even have the POLARITY in his studio speakers wired correctly it turned out, and THAT is why they hated the sound-it only sounded good IN that studio. This was discussed in depth.
And, that was Rundgren’s FIRST TIME working w digital TAPE. He didn’t even know if you could CUT/SPLICE digital tape. I love how he conveniently omits those key details to make himself look like The Man.
Todd never wrote any “Dear God” ... never came close. And I grew up loving his music. But an Andy Partridge he ain’t. ✌️
I've loved Todd my whole life but his failings can't be ignored. He was a great arranger but really not a very good engineer nor did he have the patience or modesty to learn the craft properly.
That's completely un-true.Todd mapped out the tempos of all the segued songs using the Fairlight. They guy definitely knew what he was doing. Did not need to splice the tape. As to the polarity, if you test the original pressing and the remaster, the polarity is identical. Andy claimed that polarity error made it all the way to the first release, which is demonstrably a lie.
But I guess when you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes reality, and it grow legs.
That's funny Andy thinks it's a shite song, if it was up to Andy he claims he never would have put that song on that album.
Todd is spot on
(Theme song from The Munsters starts playing)
Todd deserves more respect. As good as XTC are, Todd had the outsiders view and discipline to stop the band going up their own arsehole. Andy would still be remixing it to this day!
There's no room for two geniuses, it's that simple.
Skylarking was the Sgt. Peppers of it's time.
Black Sea was being called XTC's Pepper at the time i seem to remember. And for me still their best
Gotta disagree with Rundgren's blanket dismissal of the production quality of the albums preceding 'Skylarking'. I have no problem picking out the various elements of XTC's intricate soundscapes, and find Rundgren's observations on psychoacoustics to be misapplied. The recording quality remains high across the vast majority of the band's discography.
Also, it is absurd to claim that the tyrannical Andy Partridge was destroying the band's popularity by forcing a fundamentally flawed production ideology on his bandmates. It's very rare for a band to be both artistically and commercially viable (as the former so often excludes the latter), and XTC's insistence on thought-provoking music tended to yield material less palatable for dumbed-down mainstream audiences. It's career arc seems perfectly normal to me. Not everyone gets the long glide-out of U2 or Radiohead, and what matters for XTC is how good its discography ultimately was. In my opinion they started and finished strong.
If only you could superimpose the sound quality of 'Black Sea' onto 'Skylarking' - that would be something
Mummer is my favorite album. Can't agree with the criticism.
You are right when you say that Todd doesn't properly know psychoacoustics. It is when sonic phenomenon is audible that is not actually in the mix. For instance, when several elements in a mix combine to form an element not actually present, Combination tones are an example of this. Where say, if you play two piano notes together, the summing of them can at times produce a third note which was not actually played.
Ron Sunsinger The missing fundamental, for instance.
+Aaron Solomon: In total agreement with Mad Joe, but then he was talking from a position of long experience gained in top studios recording all kinds of acts - he still knew how to capture the basic 'guts' of a band's sound, even though his productions were eccentric. XTC were a great-sounding live unit and I (and it seems most others here) would say that their records which sound best are those which capture that in all its depth and fullness. Skylarking, for all it's brilliant and creative arrangements and sound treatments, doesn't really do that. To me it sounds kind of thin and clonky - even the remaster doesn't totally salvage it. Still, there's always Steven Wilson's remix to check out...
Painful to listen to insofar that Andy is my hero and I have a lot of respect for Rundgren and I don't like them going at each other.
I have loved both Todd Rundren and XTC/Andy Partridge for many years. Saw Utopia live at least 7 times and XTC live in NYC 5 or 6 times. I always thought that many of Todd's records sounded crappy, whereas XTC's were vibrant. Never really cared that much for Skylarking. Hated DEAR GOD and thought MERMAID SMILED and ANOTHER SATELLITE were great songs, so I'd have to disagree with Todd's thoughts on those. My fave XTC album was Oranges and Lemons; Drums and Wires and now Apple Venus. I think Andy's FUZZY WARBLES series is fantastic, even though they're demos! XTC is such an underrated band that it's a crying shame. Maybe one day they'll garner the notariety they deserve.
drums and wires was a landmark.....no one had sounded like them.
It's very interesting hearing this story from Todd's perspective. As an audio guy, I was always skeptical of the whole 'out of phase' thing. This explains a lot and I tend to agree with Todd that it was all BS. Maybe I could be proven wrong if I heard the 'out of phase' masters but I haven't been able to track down digital versions anywhere. The bad blood is too bad but sometimes you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelette.
He can laugh off the polarity issue, but the corrected polarity version of Skylarking is a massively-improved album. The old version is on him, whether he wants to admit it or not.
Honestly? I don't hear the difference.
Agreed, the difference is significant.
I loved XTC madly, especially the first phase (WM and D&W) but also records like ES, Mummer and Skylarking, they have a repertoire that makes britpop pale, but .. I think that when someone called Todd Rundgren knocks on your studio and comes to produce a record for you, you have the right /duty to be silent and learn everything he can teach you. I mean .. Todd isn't just a musician, he's a giant, a innovator, the man behind great success and sales (Bat out of hell for example), he has shown widely that he can do everything with great talent. He use to release a buch of Lp performing EVERY single instrument and singing, composing legendary tunes too.
I repeat .. I love Partridge sw and those C.Moulding pop pearls ..But .... there is a scale of values.
loved this interview, andy and todd pissed each other off. big deal. i think they are both incredible songwriters in their own right.
What happened to Todd's English accent?
I love Todd AND Andy
Another satellite is hardly a lousy song to replace Dear God. Another satellite is probably one of the best songs.
Actually Dear God was replaced with Mermaid Smile. Plus, XTC made more good records afterward like Apple Venus Volume One although Dave Gregory might disagree.
I love Skylarking. My second-favorite behind Wasp Star.
Drums & Wires , Black Sea, English Settlement and Nonsuch for me.. all about opinions
Todd’s dismissive and derogatory tone to the albums just pre and post skylarking tells you all you need to know. He isn’t being completely objective or honest about his comments.
Why is it "classless" for Todd to report that Andy Partridge was a douche? If he reported that Andy was a wonderful man to work with you'd let that personal bit of info fly, but when it's negative you can't fucking take that.
I bought the original Skylarking, sans Dear God, in Belgium in December, 1987 while in the Air Force. I thought it was stunning and it remains one of my all time favorite albums. A few months later I was discharged and returned to the U.S. about the same time Dear God was causing an uproar in certain parts of the South. I listened to it, considered it kind of a cornball novelty tune, and haven't changed my mind about it since. I understand the economic reasons for putting it on the album, but in my opinion, Skylarking was much better off without it. Still I give kudos to Rundgren for producing a classic work.
I like the song, and it has great production values, but I think it has one of the dumbest lyrics at the start of the song: "Dear God...I pray you make it better down here, and I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer..." I think the rest of the lyrics are great, but those first lines, I think Andy Partridge should have revised them. Sounds like a pretentious 12 year old wrote them.
@@thehighllama8101 Thanks for your reply. I just listened to Dear God again and agree that it was very well produced. It also features some solid musicianship. Still, those opening lines, along with the child singing, just sets the wrong tone for me. That's just my own taste. In my opinion, Another Satellite is a much stronger track and fits in more organically with the rest of the album. Of course, though, I am strongly influenced by the way I originally heard the album plus the fact that Skylarking or Dear God was not my introduction to the band. I had been listening to XTC for quite some time before they were released..
I adore Skylarking, and know Todd was a huge part it. They had already done the first Dukes of Stratosphere album. The Tubes' Prairie Prince played drums on it.
This article explains how the polarity was fucked on skylarking and Andy was right. It sounded thin!
www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2010/06/30/xtc-skylarking-reissue-vinyl-corrected/
Is anybody here going to mention the guy who is interviewing Todd? Hmmm?
It's Mark Maron on the WTF Podcast. There's probably 45 more minutes out there.
Nice interview I'll admit, but I disagree about Dear God being the better song, it may be a more radio friendly song, but XTC is not about being radio friendly, XTC is anything but pop. I bought the original version of Skylarking and definitely believe it is great album, Todd got a great sound out of them, but I love Another Satellite, I wore out my 1st album when I re bought it and found out that they replaced Another satellite with Dear God I was totally bummed. It wasn't till about 10 years later that I was able to find a copy where they put Another Satellite back on, but it was a different recording, still a little bummed but oh well. I think the interviewer should have done his homework. Before Skylarking, XTC had already established themselves as one of the Greatest bands on Earth! In my opinion greater songwriters than Todd could ever hope to be. No doubt Todd is a great producer, but XTC put out exceptional music before Todd, and definitely after Todd. Just for the record XTC is one of my favorite bands, so I am partial to them.
Todd was an adventure that was waiting to happen, many happy accidents make fluffy clouds ⛅ in the big picture. Having a song about cross could lead to crossed wires. 😊
Rungren's the coolest.
Sheesh. 😂 I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during recording. Another Satellite is an amazing song btw. One of my favorites.
Uh, I have to disagree with Todd about “Another Satellite”. It’s one of the most brilliant songs on the album lyrically with its scathing lyrics about romantic interest from a jaundiced recipient who was already in a relationship, and it fits perfectly into the song cycle and is captures the main character in the Fall stage of life in a unique and incisive way. That being said, the entire album is brilliant and is one of the most perfect sounding albums I’ve ever heard.
Todd’s observations, when listening thru the obvious hyperbole are probably still spot on, but his opinion on “Another Satellite” sellls it way short and (listening right now to the DVD) the track fits just fine in the sequence and hardly sounds “forced” or “jammed” into the tracklist. Todd clearly doesn’t like his failure to get the last word on this subject, and the album lives on as XTC’s masterpiece, not his.
It’s a good album and well produced 👍🏻
A lot of insight, but a lot of bitterness too. And Another Satellite is a great song, BTW.
Hi . I cant remember what role Andy played on the Partridge Family; was it the little girl who shook the tambourine?